EPTOne thing i just dont like from that post is the kind of. Oh im new sorry i know now i did bad kind of attitude. once again, not a big deal at least to me, however.
Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia VIII - Page 12
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
One thing i just dont like from that post is the kind of. Oh im new sorry i know now i did bad kind of attitude. once again, not a big deal at least to me, however. | ||
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Seviro
Canada98 Posts
On March 15 2012 04:54 Mementoss wrote: I still have my suspicions about you, but way less than before. Right now I think you are active and sparking discussion which is good for town regardless. There are better cases to go after. Such as "the lurkers": @Korita: + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2012 14:06 Janaan wrote: GG FirmTofu I think we need to use this night phase to get some cases rolling. We don't have much to go on as far as cases go from Day 1, so we've got our work cut out for us. One thing I noticed from the votes that I found very interesting was Koritora's No Lynch vote. Here's one of his early posts: Then he turns around and: First he says that he's suspicious of anyone who is against lynching on day 1. Then he's all of a sudden against lynching on day 1? This seems like a huge contradiction to me. Is it possible that he's trying to take away suspicion since he didn't vote for the mislynch? I'm not sure, but it's definitely possible. I think he's definitely worth a closer look. The case by Janaan was mentioned a long long time ago. Korita so far has decided to just ignore this Korita has been heavy lurking for a long time. Waiting for other discussion to bury the Korita case or for people to just plain forget? Or just an inactive townie. He seems scummy to me. @Infern0: The ultimate lurker in this game so far to me. Longest without a post currently. Drops in posts 4-5 posts that are either edits or just fluff/saying the same thing. Gives a quick explanation for his vote than peaces out for the whole night. Hard to really make a case for him other than he is the biggest lurker. If you want to lynch a lurker to keep an active town or cases are not coming together, I would say he is the number 1 lurker lynch. @Cosine: Another lurker, but he actually proved that he can come back and respond with somewhat of an opinionated post to defend himself. This is the only place he gets a + in my books. Hasn't done much for the town otherwise, and the response being half decent and logical is the only reason he's less suspicious than the other two. Basically I agree with Eleanthas view on him, kinda confused to his motives, but at least he responds... sometimes. Top scum thoughts: 1. Kori 2. Infern0 3. Cosine The case of the lurkers is a hard one, as we saw with FirmTofu we can't really tell if the are scum or town based on that but since they voted for the lynch where TOfu didn'T since he had real like issues that makes them a bit more suspicious I agree. The fact is that the town is not very active since now since we are now only 10 and 3 are lurking hard. Let say 1 or 2 scum are among the active one then they can have a big impact on the town decisions. That said, I agree that there is most likely one of these three that is a scum but I can't really tell who. While I agree with your top 3 even if cosine is a bit more active than Infern0 and Kori it doesn't make him less suspicious in my eyes. Oh and Nova to answer your question. On March 14 2012 20:32 Nova_Terra wrote: Please clarify. I do not understand what you mean. When you said 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion. You were in my eyes discrediting his post by implying that he didn't read the thread before your post and that he had no reason to come back on this topics. I was not actually saying that you said it was carelessness and inexperience from Scrubble, only the discrediting part. As for the rest of your defense, you answered most of the point in a not overly defensive fashion as stated above so that is some good pont for you but I want to come back on a point you missed. + Show Spoiler + Seviro wrote Then he add to not "discredit his post by calling it inexperience/carelessness" where in fact Scrubbles was in fact only giving him some sort of excuse for what he posted earlier. As Scrubbles said, being defensive over such a small thing is suspicious to me. I still don't know why you took that so seriously, why defend against something that defend you. All in all you defense was quite correct, we can go on but i'll keep you on the back of my head. I agree that we should make the lurkers participate more and taht even if you're scum, at least you are being active. | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
I think that he had not fully read the thread, or at least fully understood it, as he did not seem to understand why i was impaitently pushing on cosine, which i felt i had explained and accounted for. Even if it is an "excuse for what i had posted earlier" i find that calling something inexperienced/carelessness to be discrediting. to me, this was not about defending myself there as it was just pointing out not to discredit anyone's posts in that manner because once a post is thought of as inexperienced or careless it doesnt carry the same weight, at least to me, as one that hasnt been called out in any way. my point was that that kind of post, at least in my mind, shouldnt have been made. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
Looking through the filters of all of them, I find InfernOokami7 the most unhelpful. Also, he should have actually been in my list of people who voted for FirmTofu, but I missed that he just misformatted his vote. His filter is so empty of content that his bandwagoning makes him quite suspicious. I will therefore put my vote on him for the time being. ##Vote: InfernOokami7 I hope others will follow with voting for their suspects, so we might be able to come to an agreement on who to lynch soon. | ||
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Seviro
Canada98 Posts
I agree with the "I'm new" kind of post, i'm one of those that think that it's not an excuse to not know, but what can I say, it was really this. And your right about Infern0, he's just like following the groove. The only post that seemingly had some sort of opinion was On March 13 2012 06:22 InfernOokami7 wrote: @Nova_Terra, for someone so opinionated about the everyone else's absence from this tread, I'm surprised you have such little to say about FirmTofu's absence, only than to say that you're not confident in with the everyone trying to lynch him. Why is that? I feel that FirmTofu's first few comments were to produce discussion from those who hadn't contributed to the game (myself included on that list). I don't find fault in that initial posting, but his absence from that point is suspicious. His post drew attention to everyone else in the thread, while he could sit back and watch everyone on that list try to make a case for themselves not to get lynched. ##Vote: FirmTofu But again, he was just reformulating what everyone said without adding anything meaningful. | ||
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Seviro
Canada98 Posts
On March 15 2012 06:52 phagga wrote: So we have three heavy lurker in town, which have gone for almost 2 days. While there might be other scum around, I don't really want to tolerate this behaviour. Looking through the filters of all of them, I find InfernOokami7 the most unhelpful. Also, he should have actually been in my list of people who voted for FirmTofu, but I missed that he just misformatted his vote. His filter is so empty of content that his bandwagoning makes him quite suspicious. I will therefore put my vote on him for the time being. ##Vote: InfernOokami7 I hope others will follow with voting for their suspects, so we might be able to come to an agreement on who to lynch soon. Personnaly, I don't want to vote yet, first because I don't know at all for now and second, if I vote and for some reason I can't log on to change my vote tomorrow I could end up voting for someone that got clear of suspicion in the meantime. For this reason I will wait at least tommorrow to post some kind of vote. | ||
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Janaan
United States381 Posts
On March 15 2012 06:52 phagga wrote: I hope others will follow with voting for their suspects, so we might be able to come to an agreement on who to lynch soon. I agree that we need to start getting a good idea of how people are leaning for their vote, and I totally agree with you on not tolerating lurking. I will be around to change my vote long before the actual deadline, so this is a preliminary vote. Because of my previous suspicions: ##Vote: Koritora | ||
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Gossemerr
United States195 Posts
On March 15 2012 03:26 Janaan wrote: At the moment, there's been so much limited activity, I'm finding it hard to get decent reads off. I'm still waiting for an answer from Koritora, but at the moment, he's my best scum read for the reasons that I presented earlier. Phagga is looking pretty townie to me, his posts make a lot of sense to me and seem to have the right intentions behind them. Nova_Terra, I don't really know what to think about you, to be honest. It seems like you're trying to be active and helpful, but things like your defense of your actions on day 1 being very defensive and emotionally charged don't quite sit right with me. Neutral for the moment. Seviro actually looks a bit scummy to me, not enough to come out with any sort of case on him, but I'm keeping close watch on him. Moving on, there is a fishy link between Janaan, Phagga, and Nova_Terra. Nova's behavior has already been discussed so not going to bring that up here, but Phagga has not really has yet to been focused. He /she has yet to really offer any analysis except one post a few hours after the day 2 post, in which he / she focuses only on the people who voted for FirmTofu, and doing so dismisses Janaan rather easily as town. While on the issue of voting, he constantly wants to talk about the people who are lurking, but there is realy nothing to talk about considering that they are lurking.. Seems scummy to me to keep the town going in circles and wasting hours of actual analysis. Of course the lurkers could be mafia, but really nothing new here. Janaan also wants to lynch the lurkers, and easily agrees with Phagga. My money is on Janaan right now unless something else comes up. He is saying just enough to get by, without saying anything really at all. ##Vote: Janaan | ||
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Janaan
United States381 Posts
On March 15 2012 08:27 Gossemerr wrote: Considering this is a newbie game, wouldn't mafia likely to be outspoken and "contributing"? With something to prove? "Hey don't suspect me im contributing" type of deal. I find it hard to believe that a scum would just not post for this long now - certainly with all this pressure; and especially when there are three of them, and are most likely (don't see how they wouldn't be) communicating with each other by some other means to coordinate.1 To that notion, the play by Janaan is concerning to me. I made a point in an eariler post about the focus he / she put on Kori's vote after the fact, which was kinda late. Now he / she counters almost every point Seviro makes in his / her latest post - seemingly to dismiss or discredit the analysis. 2. Moving on, there is a fishy link between Janaan, Phagga, and Nova_Terra. Nova's behavior has already been discussed so not going to bring that up here, but Phagga has not really has yet to been focused. He /she has yet to really offer any analysis except one post a few hours after the day 2 post, in which he / she focuses only on the people who voted for FirmTofu, and doing so dismisses Janaan rather easily as town. While on the issue of voting, he constantly wants to talk about the people who are lurking, but there is realy nothing to talk about considering that they are lurking.. Seems scummy to me to keep the town going in circles and wasting hours of actual analysis. Of course the lurkers could be mafia, but really nothing new here. Janaan also wants to lynch the lurkers, and easily agrees with Phagga. My money is on Janaan right now unless something else comes up. He is saying just enough to get by, without saying anything really at all. ##Vote: Janaan 1. Just a quick note, yeah it's certainly possible that the mafia are not lurking. But it's also possible that they are. The fact is, if we never put any pressure on the lurkers by voting for them, if it IS scum just trying to hide, then they have no reason to post more than the bare minimum. With so many players lurking/not posting right now, we have to find some way to get them involved in the game. 2. I already mentioned why I didn't bring up Koritora, so refer back to that post. As far as countering all of Seviro's arguments in one fell swoop by bringing up WIFOM and Confirmation Bias, I was merely pointing out the problems that I had with his posting. Like I said, it's not enough to bring forward as a case, but logic that is filled with bad arguments is a way for scum to make a case without it being valid. It does not automatically mean the conclusions he came up with are bad, but his thought process was. As far as a connection with myself, Phagga, and Nova_Terra, myself and Phagga are definitely both focusing in on lurking players for now, so I guess that's a "connection". I'm doing so because of point 1. I don't know why Phagga is, you'll have to ask him. | ||
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ZBot
194 Posts
Current votes: koritora (1): Janaan Janaan (1): Gossemerr InfernOokami7 (1): phagga Not voting: Nova_Terra, Eleanthas, koritora, cosine, Mementoss, Seviro, InfernOokami7 The Day deadline is at 2012-03-16 12:00:00. (That's approximately 23:54:33 from now.) | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
I think i mentioned the connection between myself and phagga in an earlier post. I am not voting yet as there is still time for a well made case, but when i do, It will be on InfernOokami. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On March 15 2012 08:27 Gossemerr wrote: Considering this is a newbie game, wouldn't mafia likely to be outspoken and "contributing"? With something to prove? "Hey don't suspect me im contributing" type of deal. I find it hard to believe that a scum would just not post for this long now - certainly with all this pressure; and especially when there are three of them, and are most likely (don't see how they wouldn't be) communicating with each other by some other means to coordinate. 1.) In almost every mafia game I have read so far there were scum who were lurking. In my last game (Newbie IV), there were 4 scum, 2 of them were lurking almost all game, 1 vs the end. 2.) I agree that there are also active scum. I have my suspects, I read through the filters. However, I am not too sure about my reads yet, and I don't want to mislynch an active townie. Also, I don't want the lurkers to get away with their behaviour, because they won't change anything if we let them get away with it. Lynching a lurker gives us time to flesh out our cases, removes a player with anti-town behaviour and keeps as many active townies in the game as possible. We will be able to analyze vote patterns and justficiations. As a side effect, one of the other lurkers might get more active. 3.) Don't forget that the lurkers, should the fail to vote, will not be modkilled, but replaced, as it states in the Rules: Replacements This game uses replacements. Replacements will be made in the game until Night 3. If a player is modkilled during the designated time, then they will be replaced by a player on the replacement list, assuming one is available, if no-one is available to replace, they will just be modkilled. We have three people on the replacement list. Now consider that all 3 lurkers get replaced, we mislynch an active townie and another one gets shot at night by scum. We will be 5 townies to 3 mafia on D3 with 3 new people on which we have zero information. This is not a situation I want to be in. There are two ways to avoid that situation: We lynch a confirmed scum (which we do not have and will not have), or we lynch a lurker (which is easy, there are 3 of them right now). 4.) I'm referencing the newbie mini IV again: Would we have started to lynch all the lurkers from D2 to D4, we would have at least lynched one scum, perhaps even two. We did not, instead lynched active townies and mafia won the game. 5.) Finally, I'm gonna make one more list (Don't you love them?): Active Players (6): - Gossemerr - Mementoss - Nova_Terra - Seviro - Janaan - phagga Somehow active but barely contributing (1): - Eleanthas lurking like there is no tomorrow (3): - cosine - koritora - InfernOokami7 If all mafia is in the active players group, this town is as good as dead already. I doubt anyone is going to trust Eleanthas or any of the lurkers or their replacements for now, so if all 3 scum are in the active group, they can easily direct any discussion to their liking on N2/D3. So I will assume that there are about 4 to 5 townies in this group, which leaves some scum in either Eleanthas or the lurker group. Also, this ties back to point two, mislynching an active townie will hurt us much more than any lurker mislynch. tldr; lynch lurker, better for town, less risk. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On March 15 2012 08:27 Gossemerr wrote: Moving on, there is a fishy link between Janaan, Phagga, and Nova_Terra. Nova's behavior has already been discussed so not going to bring that up here, but Phagga has not really has yet to been focused. He /she has yet to really offer any analysis except one post a few hours after the day 2 post, in which he / she focuses only on the people who voted for FirmTofu1, and doing so dismisses Janaan rather easily as town.2 While on the issue of voting, he constantly wants to talk about the people who are lurking, but there is realy nothing to talk about considering that they are lurking..3 Seems scummy to me to keep the town going in circles and wasting hours of actual analysis. Of course the lurkers could be mafia, but really nothing new here. Janaan also wants to lynch the lurkers, and easily agrees with Phagga. My money is on Janaan right now unless something else comes up. He is saying just enough to get by, without saying anything really at all.4 ##Vote: Janaan I'm a "he", just for the record. 1 Right, and you analyzed everyone in the game. Oh wait, you did not, the above paragraph is the only analysis you have done so far. So, what exactly is wrong with me analyzing "only" 6 of 10 people? 2 I never said he was town. I stated that there is 1-2 scum in the group of FirmTofu voters, which means there is also 1-2 scum in the group of non-FirmTofu voters. And I can't believe you bring this up again after Nova_Terra and I both explained this very point to Mementoss. 3 If noone is talking about the lurkers, they will be forgotten and get by with it. It has happened in other games, it can happen here. 4 And you said so much more, right? Let's see... You - call cosine suspicious with a daring argument - have disagreed that Eleanthas looks scummy (without giving a reason) - in the same post agreed that FirmTofu looks scummy, reasoning that you wanted to make the same case as Mementoss (but never presented one) - call out Janaan for having a "weird timing" - try to make up a connection between me, Janaan and Nova_Terra And you think you have contributed more than Janaan? I mean, he is lacking content too, but you are definitely the wrong one to call him out on that. You are desperately looking for arguments to connect the three of us when there is nothing to connect the three of us. I could, with the very arguments you used, claim that you and Eleanthas have a secret connection. Actually, that would even make sense, because you are both halflurking and barely contributing. What do you say about that? | ||
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Seviro
Canada98 Posts
On March 15 2012 19:20 phagga wrote: Sorry, forgot to answer to the second part of your post: I'm a "he", just for the record. 1 Right, and you analyzed everyone in the game. Oh wait, you did not, the above paragraph is the only analysis you have done so far. So, what exactly is wrong with me analyzing "only" 6 of 10 people? 2 I never said he was town. I stated that there is 1-2 scum in the group of FirmTofu voters, which means there is also 1-2 scum in the group of non-FirmTofu voters. And I can't believe you bring this up again after Nova_Terra and I both explained this very point to Mementoss. 3 If noone is talking about the lurkers, they will be forgotten and get by with it. It has happened in other games, it can happen here. 4 And you said so much more, right? Let's see... You - call cosine suspicious with a daring argument - have disagreed that Eleanthas looks scummy (without giving a reason) - in the same post agreed that FirmTofu looks scummy, reasoning that you wanted to make the same case as Mementoss (but never presented one) - call out Janaan for having a "weird timing" - try to make up a connection between me, Janaan and Nova_Terra And you think you have contributed more than Janaan? I mean, he is lacking content too, but you are definitely the wrong one to call him out on that. You are desperately looking for arguments to connect the three of us when there is nothing to connect the three of us. I could, with the very arguments you used, claim that you and Eleanthas have a secret connection. Actually, that would even make sense, because you are both halflurking and barely contributing. What do you say about that? That actually make a lot of sense to me, I thought about it overnight. If Nova is not a scum then the kill on Scrubbles had for cause to make us suspect him and possibly lynch him right away today. Now, who've been in that aim of Nova during day 1. At first it was cosine. + Show Spoiler + On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote: Did you actually just say that no lynch is sometimes better than lynch in a situation where town loses if they dont lynch mafia? By those sometimes do you mean (hypothetically) when you are mafia? Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid. Also i disagree with the point about see sloosh's play in newbie mini mafia IV. says nothing when it doesnt matter. once the discussion gets more substantive does he appear and work the town. ##FOS: cosine But he then retract his position after Cosine answers him + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 07:16 Nova_Terra wrote: This clarifies things substantially. Lylo: a situation where town must lynch mafia or they lose. FoS: finger of suspicion. Basically trying to get you to post to defend yourself. The point i was trying to make about sloosh's play was that that other playstyle should not be overlooked, as it was a vexing position to be in as town. Thanks for the compliment about liking my play, if you meant/included me in that statement. feels nice as i've been trying to justify my apparently hastily made Finger of Suspicion. Dont think that flattery will change anything on my end though. I'll be watching... I agree with building cases on peoples posts rather than the alternative, but i am confused as to why you didnt say just that. To me it came across as if you were trying to make his post seem invalid in the eyes of others by calling it stupid. in the games i have read through, this played a big part in how the town functioned around some certain players. unrelated side note, I have a nasty trigonometry class tomorrow, might need your help cosine xD All jokes aside, I think cosine is relatively cleared of suspicion for the most part. Next, eleanthus (or something along the lines of that): The main thing that bugged me about his post was just the "lynching lurkers maybe" thing. was wishy-washy, he presented nothing new to us and we couldnt even be sure of what his decision was. also, it slightly irked me that he totally seemed to ignore pretty much everything that had happened so far. I dont find it extremely suspicious or anything, but i want him to make a nice big post like cosine's so we can read into his thoughts so far. Lastly, Lurkers and/or lurker lynches. In this case, if we cant get anything out of eleanthus, then he is likely to be the candidate of choice for lynching. however, in the high probability chance of him doing exactly what cosine did, and having no other major scum slips come out of anyone, we will likely be put into the situation where we have to lynch one of these three to avoid a no lynch. Can i propose that we should decide which one of these three (or eleanthus) we should lynch no less than 8 hours before the deadline? this means that there wont be any last minute scrambling that results in a no lynch, and also provides enough of a time buffer that we should all be able to get votes in on that person before the deadline. This also leaves them plenty of time to come back and post before this decision. Reasonable? okay, im out for the night, see you all in a few hours. In between these two post, he agree Mementoss that the first few posts of Eleanthas were suspicious + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 06:28 Nova_Terra wrote: I was trying to make it seem to him like i was aggressive against it in hopes that he would post quickly if lurking. Also, i picked up on the Eleanthas thing as well, but didnt really want to mention that as well. i agree with your suspicion list currently. After this, the discussion go on another topic but in each of his post he states that he will most likely vote Eleanthas On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote: for now, im thinking eleanthas. On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote: Arguably, you are contributing on close to the same level as Koritora. The main thing is that you don’t really add anything except with disagreeing with other people. To you as well, what are your thoughts on cosine and Eleanthas in particular? It seems that you ignored most of the discussion relating to this. On March 12 2012 19:02 Nova_Terra wrote: I agree with your lynch candidates, and I think that Eleanthas should be our main target until he posts. I was also wondering about tofu, I hope he shows up and weighs in on everything. Thanks Probulous for the filters  On March 12 2012 20:14 Nova_Terra wrote: Okay, thanks for the insights. Just continue to try to post often and discuss things just like what you wrote above. It would be better if you could recommend a course of action relating to your deductions regarding certain people. I.E.How we are likely to lynch Eleanthas if he doesnt post up. And then the day was going near his end so he posted his "first" official vote On March 13 2012 01:08 Nova_Terra wrote: Eleanthas has my vote currently, until he posts up, and i think that he is the best candidate as the other 'lurkers' posted and his post was widely found suspicious. ##Vote Eleanthas And after that he follow the bandwagon on FirmTOfu to finally randomly voting Gossemer. If we add that to what you said about a possible connection between Eleanthas and Gossemer, we can deduce that if they are both indeed Mafia it would make sense for them to want to kill Nova. I'm starting to think heavily that the kill on Sbrubbles was a setup against Nova so that they could indirectly inflence today's vote. okay, the last part was heavily WIFOM but I think it makes sense. I also want to point out the only post of Eleanthas on day 2. + Show Spoiler + On March 15 2012 04:13 Eleanthas wrote: So about Koritora: I have really mixed feelings about him. I don't really like, how he starts the game. ''No proof, don't lynch'' attitude makes him look really scummy. On other hand, why would any mafia say that on first post? Seems like careless townie to me. Action after that seems to nothing too special, but voting made me really curious. ''But sine either hasn't spoken up lately...'' Inferno had really posted much more. Tough his posts had been him trying to state his earlier posts. Still Inferno had come about 3 hours earlir and defended himself and told, why we should lynch FirmTofu. It seems to me, that Koritora is trying to play it save right now. I hope that he comes and speaks up for himself. His actions look bit scummy, but really atleast I want to hear more about him, before starting really to point my finger towards him. And Cosine: He seems really confusing. I get mixed feeling about his past with mafia. Seems like he isn't new with mafia but just really odd how he still messes up with terms etc. Or are the terms really Team Liquid spesific? I don't really have other problems with Cosine. I think his justificatios for lynch were fine and he has been responding to suspects and discussed fine. Now he seems to have dropped out from the discussion. Hope he shows up soon. Now I'm trying to look over discussion going on now and post about it hopefully soon. Once again from him, another longish post that add nothing. He just talk about the three lurker as if they where the only suspect at the moment. He completely ignore what is going on stating Now I'm trying to look over discussion going on now and post about it hopefully soon As of now, 10 hours later, he didn't post yet. So now, if what phagga said is true, which is quite possible, I think a lynch on Eleanthas would be beneficial for us. I know that it is not 100% sure that he is a scum but I think his lynch will give us the informations that we need to go on. That said, in my opinion he has the behaviour of a scum so either he is a scum or a bad townie both of which are bad for the town. ##Vote: Eleanthas | ||
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Seviro
Canada98 Posts
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
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blubbdavid
Switzerland2412 Posts
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Velinath
United States694 Posts
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
Also, what is blubbdavid doing in this thread? | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
Hmm, I like the basis of this case. in a couple hours, i will look over the filters and check everything, but you may be on to something. Phagga, i think that Gossemerr should be on your "somehow active but barely contributing" section. One think that i noticed about Gossemerr is that he appears to be here often but rarely says much. I find this to be true because when i hadnt realized that you could vote for no lynch, and put his name down, he popped up very shortly after to say, You do realize you can vote for a no lynch. More later. | ||
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