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United States22154 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YpvJt.png)
*Probulous is helping me co-host this game. Any questions can be directed towards him or myself.
Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia VIII
+ Show Spoiler [Important Posts] +
Introduction:
Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules:
Cheating:
Cheating includes (but is not limited to):
1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information.
2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town.
3. Logging on to someone else's account to get their role or looking over someone's shoulder to get their role.
4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles.
5. Posting screenshots of your inbox.
6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host.
7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip.
8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts.
9. Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits.
10. Sharing accounts with other players. Only you may post on your account.
11. Breadcrumbing the specific phrasing of your role PM. Do not compare the phrasing in your role PM to prove your alignment. You can claim the abilities you have, but you can't use the specific phrasing of your role PM
Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Posting:
Mod Font:
This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Question Font:
This is question font. Use it to ask the moderators questions about the rules. Please do us a favor and read the rules before you ask anything.
Activity:
You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled.
Smurfs:
Are not allowed, if I catch you trying to smurf in my game (and I will), you can expect harsh retaliation. This is a newbie game, don't try to take advantage of it.
Spam:
Spam is not tolerated, nor is any off-topic material. Do not discuss Proleague here. Do not talk about Starcraft II here. Play Mafia here.
Editing:
Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be modkilled. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again if you have to edit anything.
Inappropriate posts:
If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM a host, Flamewheel, or Mig before involving the TL staff. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can appeal to the TL staff normally. I have zero tolerance for flaming.
Reporting posts:
The report button is a nice feature for regular TL, but not for this forum. We prefer to deal with things in house if possible to avoid confusion among the TL staff. If you have a problem with how someone is posting, talk to the host, co-host, Flamewheel, or Mig before using your report button. Please do not use your report button for anything other than inappropriate posts which you feel are not being dealt with adequately.
Ban discussions:
Please wait until this game is over to talk about modkills and bans resulting from this game.
Play to win.
This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without a ban. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis. PM your host if you need to leave the game.
You have been warned.
Out of thread communication:
It is common for mafia (and town circles if PMs are allowed) to use a medium outside of TL such as QuickTopics or IRC to communicate during the game. Please be mindful that other players may be more tech savvy than you and they may attempt impersonate members of your team or attempt to infiltrate your chat. You use these media at your own risk.
Voting rules:
1. Voting is done in this thread. Please keep votes there, and only vote there. Do not PM me your vote.
2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote: GMarshal. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I will update vote counts whenever I get the chance.
3. No conditional voting.
4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game.
5. This game uses Extended Majority Lynch. That is, at the deadline the player with a majority of votes is lynched (majority = 1/2 the remaining players, rounded down + 1), if no one has a majority then no lynch will take place.
6. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain. You MAY vote for a no lynch by posting ##Vote: No Lynch
Signups:
This game is open newbies only, that is, you must have played three or fewer game on TL.
Game-specific rules:
Modkills:
This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment. If you want to use this game to sit out your ban, please PM Flamewheel or post in the Ban List.
Replacements
This game uses replacements. Replacements will be made in the game until Night 3. If a player is modkilled during the designated time, then they will be replaced by a player on the replacement list, assuming one is available, if no-one is available to replace, they will just be modkilled.
Do not request replacement without a good reason, or you may be banned for inactivity. PM me to discuss
Clues:
There are NO clues.
PMs
PMs are NOT allowed in this game.
Time Cycle:
This game will follow a 24 hour night/48 hour day cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is 03:00 GMT (+00:00), but that is subject to change. Actions/votes will be accepted up to but not including the posted time, but not after.
Credits:
Thanks to anyone who has ever hosted a game. This list grows ever longer.
Thanks to everyone who helped balance this game.
If you have not read all the rules, go back and do so. I will not compensate for ignorance!
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United States22154 Posts
Roles and Setup information
This is a semi-open setup, that is, exact role counts will not be known, but the possible roles will be known. All roles presented here are not necessarily in the game, but no roles not included here are present.
Town Roles
Town Wincondition- The town wins when there are no mafia left in the game
Vanilla Townie - You are just an ordinary citizen of the town of Liquidia, you are terrified of the mafia, and must strive to weed them out before the exterminate you and your fellow citizens. Every day you may vote for who you want to see lynched. Your wits and your votes will carry the town to glorious victory or shameful defeat.
Miller- You are just an ordinary citizen of the town of Liquidia, well, almost ordinary, unbeknownst to you, you sleep walk, and often end up visiting the graveyard and other suspicious locations, for that reason, you return Mafia to detectives who choose to check you. Millers are not informed that they are millers, rather they are given regular vanilla townie PMs.
Detective - You are a incredible sleuth, using your keen powers of deduction and the awesome astral charts from the seer's academy, you have the ability to inspect a player every night. You will find out if they are Town or Mafia. You are guaranteed to be sane, but beware of millers, framers and the godfather.
Medic - You are a recent medical school graduate, still struggling to pay the bills. Fortunately you have found employment here in Liquidia. Every night, you may choose to visit a player for a check up, if they would be hit that night, you manage to save them from the first kill aimed at them. Neither you nor your target will be notified of a successful protection.
Veteran - You are a survivor of the massacre of SNMMVI! The skills learned in that bitter struggle have taught you how to survive in even the harshest of situations, giving you an extra night life. That is, it takes two kill points to kill you. You will be notified if you get hit, and the medic protection absorbs hits before your extra life does.
Vigilante - You are an armed and dangerous fellow! You have secured a gun and are going to use it to take justice into your own hands. During any night of the game you may choose to fire at a player, this works exactly like a mafia hit. If your shot stacks with a mafia kill or another vigilante, it will not be refunded, if you are roleblocked, you will not lose your shot, even if you intended to fire that night.
Mafia Roles
Mafia Win condition- The mafia wins when they equal or outnumber the remaining townies or nothing can keep that from happening.
Mafia Powers - (all mafia have these, unless specifically stated otherwise) All mafia may vote, as ordinary citizens of liquidia. All mafia may communicate with each other outside the thread, by any means they wish, and know who the other mafia are. As a group, the mafia team have kp equal one, each night, which they may use however they want.
Mafia Goon- One of the newest recruits to the mafia, you are here to visit vengeance on the town. You have no special powers outside the regular mafia powers. Now destroy these fledgling fools, make them see the power of the mafia!
Mafia Roleblocker - An expert in the use of the terrible drug Nocando, in addition to the usual mafia powers, you can choose to visit a player each night and drug them, keeping them from performing any night actions. Regardless of their role, they will be notified that they were knocked out in the morning.
Mafia Framer - An ex-detective, you know exactly what those schmucks look for when investigating people. In addition to the normal mafia powers, you may choose to frame a player each night, making them return the opposite of what they should to detectives, that is a framed mafia goon returns Town and a framed Vanilla Townie returns Mafia
Mafia Godfather - The regional leader of the mafia, you know exactly what it takes to look innocent. In addition to the normal mafia powers, you return Town to any detective that investigates you.
Additionally, the mafia will receive copies of the Vanilla Townie PM and of each blue role, in order to prevent things like PM based closed ciphers.
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United States22154 Posts
Remember, three or fewer games played to sign up!
Player List
Filter
Replacements
3/3 Mafia Remaining
?/? Goon(s)
?/? Roleblocker(s)
?/? Framer(s)
?/? Godfather(s)
Mafia KP currently equals 1
5/9 Town
??/?? Vanilla Townie(s)
??/?? Miller(s)
??/?? Detective(s)
??/?? Medic(s)
??/?? Veteran(s)
??/?? Vigilante(s)
As usual, PM me for the observer QT, or if you wish to be listed as an official coach
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United States22154 Posts
Newbie specific stuff
1.) Its already in the rules, but remember, no editing. I'd rather not modkill for this
2.) Behave as gentlemen (or ladies), things get heated here, but personal attacks are unacceptable, I *will* hold you to the same standards I would anywhere else on teamliquid.
3.) If there is an issue, or you don't understand something, or you think your brilliant plan may be against the spirit of the rules, PM me or Probulous. There is no shame in asking.
4.) Don't talk about the game outside the game. Sometimes it can be tempting to discuss it in IRC with a friend, or someone who isn't playing, unless its a private conversation with someone you KNOW isn't in the game, its not a good idea. Getting advice from more experienced players is fine though, just let me know who you are going to for coaching.
5.) Make sure to have read the rules, ignorance is no excuse.
6.) This is a game, have fun, and don't carry grudges.
7.) Have fun, seriously.
Useful Guides
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/in !
Woot! Time to see if experience playing this live accounts for something.
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I'll cohost if you'd like GM
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United States22154 Posts
On March 03 2012 03:21 Mattchew wrote:
I'll cohost if you'd like GM
You are already cohosting wiggles' game, I would rather not have you hogging all the cohost spots :-P
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United States22154 Posts
Just a reminder to people, if you are no longer eligible for newbies, or would like the next step up, I highly suggest going to sign up for Mafia LII
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Sorry GMarshal, I replaced a dude in the newbie mini V and don't think I'll be able to do both  .
/out
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I would join, but I have a big test on Tuesday that I need to spend most of my time on. If ya'll are still looking for players after that (Or need replacements) I'll join for sure!
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Are you allowed to play 2 games simutaneously? I am currently into Newbie Mini Mafia V, but 5 people didn't vote on day 1, so i'm not sure where that game is heading >_>.
/in if allowed.
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Edit I got killed! Im totally interested/avaialable for this game!!
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United States22154 Posts
Probulous is now cohosting
On March 04 2012 22:26 FourFace wrote:
/in
Waiting for the game you were modkilled in to finish before I can put you on the player list, as if df/Qatol request a ban you cannot play. Its Newbie Mini Mafia IV IIRC, and should be ending soonish, so just hold tight ^_^
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I doesn't look like this is starting for another couple days, so go ahead and put me on the list!
/in
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I'm in, long time lurker.
/in
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I'm no newb to the mafia scene, haha. I'm actually a moderator of SC2 Mafia(one of the first), a map by Dark.Revenant, and a mafia enthusiast. I suppose I will try my hand at this forum scene and see if I can compete. Ultimately, the caliber of the playerbase in these forums is what really counts. Let's see how you stack up!
P.S. I absolutely love that guide up there stickied in the subforum. Brilliant. It puts into words many of the strategies I have used and executed in past forum mafias on the sc2 mafia site.
One does not simply
[Insert Boromir Here]
Win at Forum Mafia
/in
My in game account is FalseTruth, for any of you who may know me. Note the matching initials: FirmTofu=FalseTruth (F.T.)
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Day 3 vote. Remember you need a majority at the deadline to lynch,
Current votes:
Nova_Terra (5): Velinath, -Velinath, Seviro, Velinath, Mementoss, Gossemerr, Janaan
Seviro (1): Nova_Terra
Not voting: koritora, InfernOokami7
The Day deadline is at 2012-03-19 12:00:00. (It's over.)
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More people sign-up im excited to start another game.. QQ
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Indeed. I agree with Mementoss. ^^
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Well, just died in the Newbie Game V, so ...
/in!
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Come on my pretties, sign up. We won't hurt you...much 
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/in? I'm pretty new
I think I'm also supposed to say that Lanaia sent me? :D
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On March 07 2012 11:17 Probulous wrote:Come on my pretties, sign up. We won't hurt you...much
us former newbies taking up the co-hosting duties ^^
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 07 2012 13:41 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 11:17 Probulous wrote:Come on my pretties, sign up. We won't hurt you...much us former newbies taking up the co-hosting duties ^^
This is no time for fraternizing. Get back to work! 
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On March 07 2012 13:56 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 13:41 EchelonTee wrote:On March 07 2012 11:17 Probulous wrote:Come on my pretties, sign up. We won't hurt you...much us former newbies taking up the co-hosting duties ^^ This is no time for fraternizing. Get back to work!
Is this what I have to look forward to now that my newbie days are almost over!? 
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I have been following your games long enough now so
/in
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United States22154 Posts
As a reminder, if you are playing in this game, you cannot be playing in any other games, thus if you /ined but also /ined for another game I did not add you to the player list.
On March 07 2012 14:23 Janaan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 13:56 kitaman27 wrote:On March 07 2012 13:41 EchelonTee wrote:On March 07 2012 11:17 Probulous wrote:Come on my pretties, sign up. We won't hurt you...much us former newbies taking up the co-hosting duties ^^ This is no time for fraternizing. Get back to work! Is this what I have to look forward to now that my newbie days are almost over!?
and the beatings! :-P
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On March 07 2012 20:45 GMarshal wrote:
As a reminder, if you are playing in this game, you cannot be playing in any other games, thus if you /ined but also /ined for another game I did not add you to the player list.
Hmm ... ooops! I'm guessing you're talking about me. I'll /out the JubJub game then, since it still looks a ways off.
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Looks like noob mafia V should be over before the end of the weekend so if no one else comes that should help fill this up 
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I want to play in this =( Shame I already have more then 3 games... Does it count that I only have 1 normal game under my belt? (played in Wiggles normal mini, Purgatory, Hammer, Storm and Resistance.)
Pretty pleeeease =)
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I played Mafia on SEN, epicMafia, and real life. Let's see how I do on TL!
/in
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On March 07 2012 20:45 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 14:23 Janaan wrote:On March 07 2012 13:56 kitaman27 wrote:On March 07 2012 13:41 EchelonTee wrote:On March 07 2012 11:17 Probulous wrote:Come on my pretties, sign up. We won't hurt you...much us former newbies taking up the co-hosting duties ^^ This is no time for fraternizing. Get back to work! Is this what I have to look forward to now that my newbie days are almost over!? and the beatings! :-P
A good reason to be my minion instead of GMarshal's or kitaman's! I won't beat you! Also, I allow my cohosts to mock the players and toy with their fates!
For example:
On May 18 2009 10:30 LTT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2009 10:26 mikeymoo wrote:On May 18 2009 09:56 LTT wrote:On May 18 2009 09:55 mikeymoo wrote:
sigh
I change my vote from Ace to Mynock
this might flip flop a lot in the next couple hours, sorry Qatol. Qatol is not the person you should be apologizing to. >: ( Oh. Sorry. + Show Spoiler +SUCK IT LTT. SUCK IT LONG AND SUCK IT HARD What was that? The Mayor's autolynch pm got lost somewhere? Oh, that's ok. I've got the perfect replacement.
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I'm going out of town during next week for 2 nights. Depending on how turns fall and whether my hotel has free Wifi, I may not be able to post in one day cycle (as stated in the rules). Should I drop out now and wait for the next newbie mafia?
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When does this game start?
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United States22154 Posts
On March 08 2012 15:39 FirmTofu wrote:
When does this game start?
Whenever we are full
On March 08 2012 11:11 rayNimagi wrote:
I'm going out of town during next week for 2 nights. Depending on how turns fall and whether my hotel has free Wifi, I may not be able to post in one day cycle (as stated in the rules). Should I drop out now and wait for the next newbie mafia?
that might be an issue, if you are dead by the time that rolls around it isn't a problem, it is a problem if its something like day 3 lylo and you are a deciding vote. With that in mind, I'm going to move you to the replacement list and ask you to wait for the next newbie, I'd love to have you play, but missing a crucial day in a mini can be gamechanging.
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Oh, who am i kidding?
/in
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/In for my final newbie game !
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If we start tonight, I won't be on until late, just letting ya'll know ahead of time.
Nice to see some friendly faces from last game! Gumshoe, we really need to break our losing streak this time.....
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I'm excited for this, even though from my experience, the first half day of newbie games are incredibly awkward lol.
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On March 09 2012 02:44 Janaan wrote:
If we start tonight, I won't be on until late, just letting ya'll know ahead of time.
Nice to see some friendly faces from last game! Gumshoe, we really need to break our losing streak this time.....
Yeah, fore warning I am really going to try and tone down my posts, less quantity more quality.
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I dont want to become another weakpoint
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I'm really sorry gm but I am gonna end up giving jub jub a chance.
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or rather jub jub is gonna take a chance on me ( :
thanks for the invite though.
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glgl Sbrubbles and Mementoss. May your journey here last longer than the last one.
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On March 09 2012 06:39 gumshoe wrote:
or rather jub jub is gonna take a chance on me ( :
thanks for the invite though.
Have fun! Sad to see you go, but Jubjub's game does look fun.
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/In or in as replacement
This will be my first game of forum mafia. Played lots in person and on sc2 though.
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On March 08 2012 20:49 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 11:11 rayNimagi wrote:
I'm going out of town during next week for 2 nights. Depending on how turns fall and whether my hotel has free Wifi, I may not be able to post in one day cycle (as stated in the rules). Should I drop out now and wait for the next newbie mafia? that might be an issue, if you are dead by the time that rolls around it isn't a problem, it is a problem if its something like day 3 lylo and you are a deciding vote. With that in mind, I'm going to move you to the replacement list and ask you to wait for the next newbie, I'd love to have you play, but missing a crucial day in a mini can be gamechanging.
That's fine, I'll just observe this one and join the next newbie mafia.
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/in as a replacement.
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United States22154 Posts
game will start tomorrow night or saturday night, depending on how my schedule works out.
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On March 09 2012 08:34 Velinath wrote:/in as a replacement.
Welcome back Veli
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United States22154 Posts
Game will start tomorrow.
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*starts the slow clap*
Newb-ies...newb-ies...
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On March 10 2012 11:40 GMarshal wrote:
Game will start tomorrow.
Yaaaaaay!
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On March 10 2012 11:56 Jitsu wrote:
*starts the slow clap*
Newb-ies...newb-ies...
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!?
Also, I'll probably be at the IPL SXSW showmatch tomorrow night, so I may not be on right when the game starts.
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I think i'm a little too excited for this game.
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On March 11 2012 05:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
I think i'm a little too excited for this game.
Same lol
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On March 11 2012 05:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
I think i'm a little too excited for this game.
^^ I was my first game
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/in
as an alternate I guess. Always liked the irl mafia, and played a bit of the sc2 custom map variant. First time forum mafia.
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Roles will be PM'ed to us when the game starts, correct?
I'm wondering how well SC2 -Mafia- Logic will work here...
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On March 11 2012 06:50 Nova_Terra wrote:
Roles will be PM'ed to us when the game starts, correct?
I'm wondering how well SC2 -Mafia- Logic will work here...
SC2 Mafia is purely a game of power roles, as evidenced by the fact that many players leave when they get Vanilla Townies/Citizens.
Forum Mafia is a whole different beast :D.
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On March 11 2012 06:50 Nova_Terra wrote:
Roles will be PM'ed to us when the game starts, correct?
I'm wondering how well SC2 -Mafia- Logic will work here...
make sure you read the general guide to playing mafia all the way through; it's very thorough, and if you follow a lot of it you will be better off than the majority of newbies playing.
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Dont worry, i read the guide multiple times, as well as some mafia guides.
I hate people who leave when they get Citizen. I find it fun to play as citi, making wild accusations that often turn out right :D
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United States22154 Posts
roles going out, no posting till the daypost please
As usual I have the obs qt if anyone wants it.
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United States22154 Posts
Day 1
The future
---Begin Log 39, 12-4-2120---
The future. Its exactly as bad as we could have imagined. They came from the sky, their ships screaming fire and death on our cities. Those that could fled to the country. Those who could not stayed and were enslaved. Soon all of humanity, or all of it that matters, anyway, was under the yolk of the alien invaders. We don't know much about our new overlords, outside of their name, the flughmofins, their goals, to mine out every bit of salvageable scrap on our planet, and that they can bleed and die like we can.
Now, in a small underground base under Siberia, a team of ex-military specialists have gathered to give these invaders hell, and I, GMarshal will lead the resistance. I have gathered them in secret, they don't know each other, only I, and my trusted second in command Probulous know who these men are, and where they come from, however I have received troubling news, the alien life form scanner reads three aliens in the compound. I think we have been infiltrated, as a precaution I have sealed us into the base, cutting them off, until we can kill these freaks. I'm not sure, however of who the aliens are... these damned shapeshifters make it a lot more complicated than it has to be... However I suspect,
--- End of log, rest of log is corrupt---
The twelve men gathered around the hacked up corpses of GMarshal and Probulous, stared at the log in silence, listening to the captains voice for a last time. Hearing the last words, they set their eyes in determination. This was war. Either the aliens in their midst would exterminate them, or the aliens would be purged. There was only one way to determine which.
GMarshal the Leader of the Resistance has been hacked to pieces
Probulous the Second in Command has fallen to the xeno blade.
It is now day 1! You have 48 hours to determine who to lynch. Remember, you need a majority at the deadline to lynch. The deadline is 03:00 GMT (+00:00). That means that votes at 21:59:59 will be counted, but votes at 22:00:00 will not.
Remember, behave like ladies and gentlemen and no editing
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Unfortunately, it's 3 am over here and I am drunk, going to bed. Do not expect any posts from me in the next 20 hours
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I have the same stance I did at the starting of last game, I would like to push for a lynch if evidence is there. If we cannot get a strong case together, lynching a lurker does not hurt the town. Hopefully this game has less anti-town posters than the last game I posted in. A no-lynch is a bad situation cause it just seems like giving the mafia a free kill (IMO) and 48 hour days leave lots of times for a decent analysis. Also during the lynch can usually give a source of information based on the flip and based on peoples voting patterns, at the very least it can give us a good discussion for the night and the next day. That's all I have to say for now. As the poster above states its late here and I will be going out soon, will check back, read, and repost within the next 18-20 hours.
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I would like to weigh in, but I won't unless the host says it's okay.
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A no lynch is always better than a lynch unfounded in evidence.
Or is it?
We can watch the who votes on who. We can observe who listens to who. We can deduce who has a inherently positive disposition to who.
I find myself sounding rather like an owl :/
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On March 11 2012 11:43 rayNimagi wrote:
I would like to weigh in, but I won't unless the host says it's okay.
if not playing then no talking please, if you want I'll send you the obs qt where you can argue with all the other players not in the game ^_^
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Got back from SXSW earlier than I expected. Side note, the match was awesome.
Now then, to business. Unless in very certain circumstances, I personally always think lynching is the right thing to do. If we have a decent case to follow day 1, great. If not, lurker lynch is ok. The circumstance that I WILL be in favor of a no lynch is if I am fairly certain that all people being voted on are not scum.
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On March 11 2012 11:49 FirmTofu wrote:
A no lynch is always better than a lynch unfounded in evidence.
Or is it?
We can watch the who votes on who. We can observe who listens to who. We can deduce who has a inherently positive disposition to who.
I find myself sounding rather like an owl :/
Why post information already stated?
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On March 11 2012 14:19 Gossemerr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 11:49 FirmTofu wrote:
A no lynch is always better than a lynch unfounded in evidence.
Or is it?
We can watch the who votes on who. We can observe who listens to who. We can deduce who has a inherently positive disposition to who.
I find myself sounding rather like an owl :/ Why post information already stated?
What do you think about lynch vs no lynch on day 1?
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I would have to say that if we didn't lynch, we would just end up prolonging "day 1" and not have any new information to build on afterwards.
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Ok, then. Is there any instance like what I mentioned that would make you even consider a no lynch?
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Well like you said, if the there is a good amount of evidence that those being voted on are townies; then of course a no lynch would be best. I'm guessing that we will not be certain either way.
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Gotcha. Good information to know.
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On March 11 2012 14:28 Gossemerr wrote:
I would have to say that if we didn't lynch, we would just end up prolonging "day 1" and not have any new information to build on afterwards.
That would be true if Mafia were not killing someone during the night. Currently out of 12 players we have 9 town and 3 scum so if we decide to do a random lynch, we have 75% chance of killing a townie and then on Day 2 we would be 7 town and 3 scum where in a no lynch scenario we would be 100% to lose only 1 person.
Of course, it is hard to tell anything this early in the day, we will have to wait for everyone to post their thought before we make a decision but I will state right now that I am 100% against a random lynch because it is really too risky to do it this early in the game. I'm for a no lynch until proven otherwise.
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Okay, but say we don't lynch. Now, after the night phase we will now have 11 total - 8 town and 3 scum - and essentially no more information than we started with, other than we are down one townie. Now what do we do? It will now be a 72.7% chance of killing a townie now (down from 75%), if we consider it to be a completely random lynch again. All I am saying is that at least if we vote to lynch someone - based off at least a minor hunch - then we get some information; which includes their defence, and the the responses of everyone else. In addition, after the flip, we will receive even more valuable information.
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I say we lynch a lurker. Take your pick.
6.) InfernOokami7
7.) koritora
8.) Eleanthas
9.) Sbrubbles
10.) cosine
12.) Nova_Terra
If they talk, don't kill them. Pretty simple concept I'm sure we can all agree on. Lurkers aren't going to help anyone.
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Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up
I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies.
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EBWOP: FirmTofu, i think the one problem with lynching lurkers is that we dont really know if they are a lurker. my point is, that when people see your last message, they are going to post, right? especially if they are scum who are lurking. if a townie just doesnt show up (so isnt lurking) i find him more likely to be killed by your list than any mafia.
That being said, I think we should continue to suspect all people on that list. I guess that even includes myself. i just have a feeling that ~2 scum could be in there and will step up when their buddies tell them, "You gotta post, man!"
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lynch is always better than no lynch except sometimes in lylo. no lynch day 1 just kicks the can to day 2 and gives the scum a free kill.
btw tofu advocating lurker lynches this early is p stupid. scum don't need to lurk this early. it's not until the discussion gets more substantive that they like to keep a low profile. even if we got lucky and hit scum, it wouldn't tell us anything. better to get the talkative scum first.
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On March 11 2012 17:59 cosine wrote:
lynch is always better than no lynch except sometimes in lylo. no lynch day 1 just kicks the can to day 2 and gives the scum a free kill.
btw tofu advocating lurker lynches this early is p stupid. scum don't need to lurk this early. it's not until the discussion gets more substantive that they like to keep a low profile. even if we got lucky and hit scum, it wouldn't tell us anything. better to get the talkative scum first.
Did you actually just say that no lynch is sometimes better than lynch in a situation where town loses if they dont lynch mafia?
By those sometimes do you mean (hypothetically) when you are mafia?
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Also i disagree with the point about it's not until the discussion gets more substantive that they like to keep a low profile.
see sloosh's play in newbie mini mafia IV. says nothing when it doesnt matter. once the discussion gets more substantive does he appear and work the town.
##FOS: cosine
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Ok. Just got first chance to get on computer.
And I think that we should lynch lurker maybe. They are anyways pretty worthless if they don't speak.
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On March 11 2012 16:01 FirmTofu wrote:
I say we lynch a lurker. Take your pick.
6.) InfernOokami7
7.) koritora
9.) Sbrubbles
If they talk, don't kill them. Pretty simple concept I'm sure we can all agree on. Lurkers aren't going to help anyone.
While I agree that lurkers are useless, policy lynches are even more useless/scummy. It forces the town down a path that, and allows the mafia to refer back to policy, without ever discusses its opinion. Its best to decide around voting time which is the best path to go, if you're cases aren't fully fleshed out, lynching a lurker is a good option until you can put more pressure and get more discussion out of your suspects.
I see that this is pressure to get everyone to start talking, but just putting it out there that I don't think policy lynches should be followed. Also I updated the list to the recent people who haven't talked yet.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2012 15:13 Seviro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 14:28 Gossemerr wrote:
I would have to say that if we didn't lynch, we would just end up prolonging "day 1" and not have any new information to build on afterwards. That would be true if Mafia were not killing someone during the night. Currently out of 12 players we have 9 town and 3 scum so if we decide to do a random lynch, we have 75% chance of killing a townie and then on Day 2 we would be 7 town and 3 scum where in a no lynch scenario we would be 100% to lose only 1 person. Of course, it is hard to tell anything this early in the day, we will have to wait for everyone to post their thought before we make a decision but I will state right now that I am 100% against a random lynch because it is really too risky to do it this early in the game. I'm for a no lynch until proven otherwise.
I agree that the mafia kill gives you information to a point, but mafia can be clever in their day 1 kill and can purposely tunnel the town in whatever direction they see fit, or kill a townie with no outstanding opinions on cases. This situation leads to no information/ a confused town. At least through a town produced lynch with have control over the situation put pressure on all players to explain their opinions and votes, thus up the discussion, easier to analyse in day 2.
Like mentioned above worst comes to worst, if we do not have a strong case going with a lurker lynch at least gets rid of anti-town, has the possibility of being scum, and gives a flip to analyse the actions of others before that vote. Silence, bandwagoning, etc.etc.
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Where cosine at.... i want him to respond to my suspicions
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Day 1 vote. Remember you need a majority at the deadline to lynch,
Current votes:
Not voting: FirmTofu, Nova_Terra, Eleanthas, cosine, koritora, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Janaan, Seviro, InfernOokami7, Sbrubbles, phagga
The Day deadline is at 2012-03-13 12:00:00. (That's approximately 1 day, 12:00:42 from now.)
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On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time
On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies.
But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though
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On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though
Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything.
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EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate.
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- We should lynch every day.
- no policy lynching lurkers, but if we can not find a better target, a lurker lynch is acceptable. however, as long as the first 24 hours have not passed, i will not accuse anyone of lurking
- posting from a mobile sucks.
- TerraNova is really eager to FoS
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On March 12 2012 02:02 phagga wrote:
- We should lynch every day.
- no policy lynching lurkers, but if we can not find a better target, a lurker lynch is acceptable. however, as long as the first 24 hours have not passed, i will not accuse anyone of lurking
- posting from a mobile sucks.
- TerraNova is really eager to FoS
at least im not immediately trying to lynch him. it just makes sense that i want him to clarify and defend.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though
I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. On the other hand, cosines slip is a bit odd as well. Not defending it makes it very suspicious for sure so I would like to hear a reply from him before I commit to any FoS or further discuss what I think of him.
Also for the non-posters I would like to hear their thoughts too. Although remember this is a noobie game and probably many players first, so they might not even know the game started. They should start showing up pretty soon I would say.
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On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. On the other hand, cosines slip is a bit odd as well. Not defending it makes it very suspicious for sure so I would like to hear a reply from him before I commit to any FoS or further discuss what I think of him. Also for the non-posters I would like to hear their thoughts too. Although remember this is a noobie game and probably many players first, so they might not even know the game started. They should start showing up pretty soon I would say.
Isnt that exactly what i said? i just want him to start posting and defend himself. I dont/didnt consider FOS a big commitment, sorry if i confused anyone and made it seem like i was gonna vote him. i still think hes totally suspicious for all the things i just said.
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Just got back from church, and caught up. I was honestly hoping for a little more activity.
Of course, I don't like that we still have 3 total non-posters around. We're almost 18 hours into Day 1, so hopefully they all show up soon.
And as for the scum slip of Cosine, I'm not sure if it was a slip or an honest newbie mistake with terms. I'll have to wait on his response before I can make a decent read on the situation.
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On March 12 2012 04:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Isnt that exactly what i said? i just want him to start posting and defend himself. I dont/didnt consider FOS a big commitment, sorry if i confused anyone and made it seem like i was gonna vote him. i still think hes totally suspicious for all the things i just said.
Yeah sorry, I just thought that FOS someoned base on a single post was a bit over reacting but I understand that you were in fact just stating that he was suspicious and as the day pass I agree more and more since he didn't post since then.
Right now it's hard to make a decision though because there is many people that didn't post yet or if they did they just stated their position on the "no lynch/random lynch topics". We need more contribution to not make a mistake on our first lynch (if we decide to lynch that is)
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On March 12 2012 04:38 Janaan wrote:
Just got back from church, and caught up. I was honestly hoping for a little more activity.
Of course, I don't like that we still have 3 total non-posters around. We're almost 18 hours into Day 1, so hopefully they all show up soon.
And as for the scum slip of Cosine, I'm not sure if it was a slip or an honest newbie mistake with terms. I'll have to wait on his response before I can make a decent read on the situation.
Yeah I agree, he was maybe just stating his opinion in a very bad manner. but it's been almost 12 hour since then and he didn't do anythind to defend himself nor did he post anything at all so now he is getting more and more suspicious in eyes as the time pass.
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On March 12 2012 04:48 Seviro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 04:38 Janaan wrote:
Just got back from church, and caught up. I was honestly hoping for a little more activity.
Of course, I don't like that we still have 3 total non-posters around. We're almost 18 hours into Day 1, so hopefully they all show up soon.
And as for the scum slip of Cosine, I'm not sure if it was a slip or an honest newbie mistake with terms. I'll have to wait on his response before I can make a decent read on the situation. Yeah I agree, he was maybe just stating his opinion in a very bad manner. but it's been almost 12 hour since then and he didn't do anythind to defend himself nor did he post anything at all so now he is getting more and more suspicious in eyes as the time pass.
Yeah. I usually don't like making judgements based on people not posting since I don't know if they have a legit reason for not being at a computer, but it is getting to be a bit long. There's not a whole lot more that can be said about it for now, though. We'll just have to wait for his answer. We can only hope it comes soon.
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On March 12 2012 04:17 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. On the other hand, cosines slip is a bit odd as well. Not defending it makes it very suspicious for sure so I would like to hear a reply from him before I commit to any FoS or further discuss what I think of him. Also for the non-posters I would like to hear their thoughts too. Although remember this is a noobie game and probably many players first, so they might not even know the game started. They should start showing up pretty soon I would say. Isnt that exactly what i said? i just want him to start posting and defend himself. I dont/didnt consider FOS a big commitment, sorry if i confused anyone and made it seem like i was gonna vote him. i still think hes totally suspicious for all the things i just said.
Re-reading I missed this quote from you "i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything.". Which does show that what you were saying was just a pressure play. The original post however just seemed a bit more aggressive. Initially when I read over it, it just seemed like a newbie mistake, not understanding the acronym. As time goes on, without a response it is getting more suspicious. Can't really take that any further until we get a response.
Also there is another odd post that I would like to point out.
On March 11 2012 21:43 Eleanthas wrote:
Ok. Just got first chance to get on computer.
And I think that we should lynch lurker maybe. They are anyways pretty worthless if they don't speak.
This is his only post. To put this in context it was about an hour and a half after NovaTerras post about cosine. He comes in posts a one liner, that completely ignores the discussion at hand, cosine case, and wants to commit to lynching a lurker, rather than making a case to lynch. Lynching a lurker is a good town decision if there is no case at the end of the day, but purposing it as the correct option at the start of the day is scummy. Mafia can avoid getting lynched just by being active and letting a townie lurker die and get 2 for 1 on day 1.
Either he is just skimming the thread, or trying to take the attention off of the cosine case by just ignoring it. Also its ironic that he wants to lynch a lurker, yet he only has 2 lines above the people who didn't post anything at all. I would like to hear his opinion on the cosine case at hand.
Where my head lies right now in terms of suspicion is:
1. cosine
2. Eleanthas
3. Inferookami, Sbrubbles, koritora (aka the "lurkers")
Am interested in hearing responses from all the above. Day 1 is a tough day for town and only by being active and making topics of discussion will we be able to weed out the scum.
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On March 12 2012 06:06 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 04:17 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. On the other hand, cosines slip is a bit odd as well. Not defending it makes it very suspicious for sure so I would like to hear a reply from him before I commit to any FoS or further discuss what I think of him. Also for the non-posters I would like to hear their thoughts too. Although remember this is a noobie game and probably many players first, so they might not even know the game started. They should start showing up pretty soon I would say. Isnt that exactly what i said? i just want him to start posting and defend himself. I dont/didnt consider FOS a big commitment, sorry if i confused anyone and made it seem like i was gonna vote him. i still think hes totally suspicious for all the things i just said. Re-reading I missed this quote from you "i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything.". Which does show that what you were saying was just a pressure play. The original post however just seemed a bit more aggressive. Initially when I read over it, it just seemed like a newbie mistake, not understanding the acronym. As time goes on, without a response it is getting more suspicious. Can't really take that any further until we get a response. Also there is another odd post that I would like to point out. Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 21:43 Eleanthas wrote:
Ok. Just got first chance to get on computer.
And I think that we should lynch lurker maybe. They are anyways pretty worthless if they don't speak. This is his only post. To put this in context it was about an hour and a half after NovaTerras post about cosine. He comes in posts a one liner, that completely ignores the discussion at hand, cosine case, and wants to commit to lynching a lurker, rather than making a case to lynch. Lynching a lurker is a good town decision if there is no case at the end of the day, but purposing it as the correct option at the start of the day is scummy. Mafia can avoid getting lynched just by being active and letting a townie lurker die and get 2 for 1 on day 1. Either he is just skimming the thread, or trying to take the attention off of the cosine case by just ignoring it. Also its ironic that he wants to lynch a lurker, yet he only has 2 lines above the people who didn't post anything at all. I would like to hear his opinion on the cosine case at hand. Where my head lies right now in terms of suspicion is: 1. cosine 2. Eleanthas 3. Inferookami, Sbrubbles, koritora (aka the "lurkers") Am interested in hearing responses from all the above. Day 1 is a tough day for town and only by being active and making topics of discussion will we be able to weed out the scum.
I was trying to make it seem to him like i was aggressive against it in hopes that he would post quickly if lurking.
Also, i picked up on the Eleanthas thing as well, but didnt really want to mention that as well. i agree with your suspicion list currently.
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On March 11 2012 23:50 Nova_Terra wrote:
Where cosine at.... i want him to respond to my suspicions
hold your horses buddy i live in a different timezone. i think you're reading a bit too much into my post, i'll try to clarify.
when i said sometimes it's good to no lynch in lylo, i think there was some confusion. idk what terminology is used here. maybe mylo? basically i meant in a lategame situation where the town can potentially throw the game away with a mislynch, but has killed enough scum already to eat a nightkill, especially if it means town power-roles get another shot. i was talking about a very specific scenario, so maybe i shouldn't have qualified my statement at all. so let me be clear, lynch is always better than no lynch.
and i didn't post because i was called out for lurking, i posted because i was about to go to bed and that's always when i check mafia threads. the day hadn't even started last time i checked the thread. i'll be here with more frequency now that the game is going.
see sloosh's play in newbie mini mafia IV. says nothing when it doesnt matter. once the discussion gets more substantive does he appear and work the town.
idk what point you're trying to make here. i made a very general statement, and you countered with an extremely specific example, with which i'm not familiar.
hope this clarifies things. i don't know what FOS means yet, i'm going now to check all the terminology that's used in liquid mafia, but i have to say i've read your posts and i like your play, as long as you don't get tunnel vision on me. pressure is a good way to get the discussion rolling. and isn't much better to build cases on people's posts instead of the lack thereof? that was the only point i was trying to make when i called tofu's call for a lurkerlynch stupid.
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On March 12 2012 06:38 cosine wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 23:50 Nova_Terra wrote:
Where cosine at.... i want him to respond to my suspicions hold your horses buddy i live in a different timezone. i think you're reading a bit too much into my post, i'll try to clarify. when i said sometimes it's good to no lynch in lylo, i think there was some confusion. idk what terminology is used here. maybe mylo? basically i meant in a lategame situation where the town can potentially throw the game away with a mislynch, but has killed enough scum already to eat a nightkill, especially if it means town power-roles get another shot. i was talking about a very specific scenario, so maybe i shouldn't have qualified my statement at all. so let me be clear, lynch is always better than no lynch. and i didn't post because i was called out for lurking, i posted because i was about to go to bed and that's always when i check mafia threads. the day hadn't even started last time i checked the thread. i'll be here with more frequency now that the game is going. Show nested quote +see sloosh's play in newbie mini mafia IV. says nothing when it doesnt matter. once the discussion gets more substantive does he appear and work the town. idk what point you're trying to make here. i made a very general statement, and you countered with an extremely specific example, with which i'm not familiar. hope this clarifies things. i don't know what FOS means yet, i'm going now to check all the terminology that's used in liquid mafia, but i have to say i've read your posts and i like your play, as long as you don't get tunnel vision on me. pressure is a good way to get the discussion rolling. and isn't much better to build cases on people's posts instead of the lack thereof? that was the only point i was trying to make when i called tofu's call for a lurkerlynch stupid.
This clarifies things substantially.
Lylo: a situation where town must lynch mafia or they lose.
FoS: finger of suspicion. Basically trying to get you to post to defend yourself.
The point i was trying to make about sloosh's play was that that other playstyle should not be overlooked, as it was a vexing position to be in as town.
Thanks for the compliment about liking my play, if you meant/included me in that statement. feels nice as i've been trying to justify my apparently hastily made Finger of Suspicion. Dont think that flattery will change anything on my end though. I'll be watching...
I agree with building cases on peoples posts rather than the alternative, but i am confused as to why you didnt say just that. To me it came across as if you were trying to make his post seem invalid in the eyes of others by calling it stupid. in the games i have read through, this played a big part in how the town functioned around some certain players.
unrelated side note, I have a nasty trigonometry class tomorrow, might need your help cosine xD
All jokes aside,
I think cosine is relatively cleared of suspicion for the most part.
Next, eleanthus (or something along the lines of that):
The main thing that bugged me about his post was just the "lynching lurkers maybe" thing. was wishy-washy, he presented nothing new to us and we couldnt even be sure of what his decision was. also, it slightly irked me that he totally seemed to ignore pretty much everything that had happened so far. I dont find it extremely suspicious or anything, but i want him to make a nice big post like cosine's so we can read into his thoughts so far.
Lastly, Lurkers and/or lurker lynches. In this case, if we cant get anything out of eleanthus, then he is likely to be the candidate of choice for lynching. however, in the high probability chance of him doing exactly what cosine did, and having no other major scum slips come out of anyone, we will likely be put into the situation where we have to lynch one of these three to avoid a no lynch.
Can i propose that we should decide which one of these three (or eleanthus) we should lynch no less than 8 hours before the deadline? this means that there wont be any last minute scrambling that results in a no lynch, and also provides enough of a time buffer that we should all be able to get votes in on that person before the deadline. This also leaves them plenty of time to come back and post before this decision. Reasonable?
okay, im out for the night, see you all in a few hours.
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On March 12 2012 06:38 cosine wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 23:50 Nova_Terra wrote:
Where cosine at.... i want him to respond to my suspicions hold your horses buddy i live in a different timezone. i think you're reading a bit too much into my post, i'll try to clarify. when i said sometimes it's good to no lynch in lylo, i think there was some confusion. idk what terminology is used here. maybe mylo? basically i meant in a lategame situation where the town can potentially throw the game away with a mislynch, but has killed enough scum already to eat a nightkill, especially if it means town power-roles get another shot. i was talking about a very specific scenario, so maybe i shouldn't have qualified my statement at all. so let me be clear, lynch is always better than no lynch. and i didn't post because i was called out for lurking, i posted because i was about to go to bed and that's always when i check mafia threads. the day hadn't even started last time i checked the thread. i'll be here with more frequency now that the game is going.
That's about what I was expecting. I'm getting a newbie town read from this right now, but I still want to see more from you.
What do you think about Eleanthas's post?
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I'm in agreeance to making a soft voting deadline, as a no lynch can really hurt town on day 1, and it can be hard to get enough activity to get everyone voting on the same page. 8 hours is a good soft deadline to at least put in some votes and where your standing and allows for some discussion for people whose time zones co- interact. Just to make sure of the voting deadline... is it March 13th, 1045 KST (time on top of TL)?
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I'm ok with a vote deadline, as long as people are willing to reconsider their preliminary vote if necessary. 8 hours is probably a decent deadline, any earlier and it becomes too irrelevant to the actual vote deadline, though.
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I'm slightly confused as to why having a no lynch situation is a bad idea. Wouldn't it be better to no potentially kill off one of the townies and see what the mafia decides to do on the first night?
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On March 12 2012 08:16 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm slightly confused as to why having a no lynch situation is a bad idea. Wouldn't it be better to no potentially kill off one of the townies and see what the mafia decides to do on the first night?
The idea is that you can look at the way people voted. How they voted, their reasoning, when in the day they voted, etc. and can maybe get an idea of why they voted that way. If, for instance, someone bandwagoned onto a vote without any reasoning, that could be reason for suspicion.
Also, if you no lynch, you're essentially giving up a chance to find potential mafia.
Are you in favor of a 100% no lynch day 1 strategy, or are there situations where you'd lynch on day 1?
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I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead.
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However, I guess that loss is a little less substantial in the early rounds compared to the later rounds.
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On March 12 2012 06:38 cosine wrote:hold your horses buddy i live in a different timezone. i think you're reading a bit too much into my post, i'll try to clarify. when i said sometimes it's good to no lynch in lylo, i think there was some confusion. idk what terminology is used here. maybe mylo? basically i meant in a lategame situation where the town can potentially throw the game away with a mislynch, but has killed enough scum already to eat a nightkill, especially if it means town power-roles get another shot. i was talking about a very specific scenario, so maybe i shouldn't have qualified my statement at all. so let me be clear, lynch is always better than no lynch. and i didn't post because i was called out for lurking, i posted because i was about to go to bed and that's always when i check mafia threads. the day hadn't even started last time i checked the thread. i'll be here with more frequency now that the game is going. Show nested quote +see sloosh's play in newbie mini mafia IV. says nothing when it doesnt matter. once the discussion gets more substantive does he appear and work the town. idk what point you're trying to make here. i made a very general statement, and you countered with an extremely specific example, with which i'm not familiar. hope this clarifies things. i don't know what FOS means yet, i'm going now to check all the terminology that's used in liquid mafia, but i have to say i've read your posts and i like your play, as long as you don't get tunnel vision on me. pressure is a good way to get the discussion rolling. and isn't much better to build cases on people's posts instead of the lack thereof? that was the only point i was trying to make when i called tofu's call for a lurkerlynch stupid.
I don't see how you can know about the specific scenario you presented in such detail, and yet, not know what FOS or even LYLO stand for. Again a few lines down you say you are not familiar with another specific example, yet you made a very specific one in the first place. You're still very suspicious in my book.
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Riddle me this. Riddle me that. Don't lynch me unless based on fact...
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However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies.
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Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
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We have Koritora, Phagga, Elean and Inferno lurking as of this moment.
On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies.
Sure, Koritora, we could single out Inferno (or whoever you're actually referring to) for not being dead set on lynching without cause, but I don't think this is scum behavior per se. The fact that he actually has an opinion and wrote a bit on it, though, is good for singling him out if he does have a scummy attitude later on. Your post, on the other hand, doesn't add anything to the discussion and doesn't even have enough content so that we can use it to analyse you later on. So, how about putting a little more effort?
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On March 12 2012 07:16 Nova_Terra wrote:
This clarifies things substantially.
Lylo: a situation where town must lynch mafia or they lose.
FoS: finger of suspicion. Basically trying to get you to post to defend yourself.
Thanks, i was def using lylo wrong, but i had figured fos from context. still helps to know for sure.
The point i was trying to make about sloosh's play was that that other playstyle should not be overlooked, as it was a vexing position to be in as town.
i'm still not sure what you're trying to argue. i said i'm against day 1 lurker lynches, partially because scum have less reason to lurk day 1, and you're arguing for a day 1 lurker lynch because a scum once lurked day 1? we can't just gamble that one of the lurkers is playing sloosh's gambit, especially since we have enough activity in the thread to make real cases on people who are posting.
I agree with building cases on peoples posts rather than the alternative, but i am confused as to why you didnt say just that. To me it came across as if you were trying to make his post seem invalid in the eyes of others by calling it stupid.
that wasn't my intention, i'm just strongly against day 1 lurker lynches so i probably didn't word that response to tofu as well as i could have.
unrelated side note, I have a nasty trigonometry class tomorrow, might need your help cosine xD
if we weren't in a game together, i'd tell you to pm me. i was actually a math tutor for many years
Can i propose that we should decide which one of these three (or eleanthus) we should lynch no less than 8 hours before the deadline? this means that there wont be any last minute scrambling that results in a no lynch, and also provides enough of a time buffer that we should all be able to get votes in on that person before the deadline. This also leaves them plenty of time to come back and post before this decision. Reasonable?
i'd say it's very reasonable that we start building consensus ~8 hours before deadline.
On March 12 2012 07:21 Janaan wrote:That's about what I was expecting. I'm getting a newbie town read from this right now, but I still want to see more from you.
What do you think about Eleanthas's post?
i missed eleanthas' post before, but i don't like it at all. there's a time when town needs to start considering lurker lynches, and day 1 is definitely not it. so already i'm a bit suspicious of anyone calling for one. besides that though, i just can't help reading el's post as a scum throwing in a noncommittal 2 bits, just to post. i'd never throw down a vote off one post, but looking through the post histories now, eleanthas' is the one that's most pinging my scumdetector. if we don't hear more from him soon he's my #1 pick for today.
On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead.
please follow your line of thinking through to conclusion. if we no lynch day 1, then what? the scum are given a chance to nightkill. now what's our plan for day 2? how could it be different from day 1? statistically we'd still be likely to lynch town, so do we no lynch again day 2? when does it stop? well, it would stop when the scum won the game because we never even tried to lynch them. "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take..."
On March 12 2012 10:03 Gossemerr wrote:I don't see how you can know about the specific scenario you presented in such detail, and yet, not know what FOS or even LYLO stand for. Again a few lines down you say you are not familiar with another specific example, yet you made a very specific one in the first place. You're still very suspicious in my book.
do you not understand the difference between a scenario and an example? my specific scenario is something that could potentially occur in any game of mafia--it's hypothetical. nova terra's example was something that accured in a single specific game of mafia that i didn't read. how could i not be unfamiliar with it?
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I never said I was 100% against not lynching someone on Day 1, I just wanted a sufficient enough reason to lynch someone.
I was under the impression that once you had cast a vote it was permanent, but looking through a previous thread I saw that you can unvote and change your decision.
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Day 1 vote. Remember you need a majority at the deadline to lynch,
Current votes:
Not voting: FirmTofu, Nova_Terra, Eleanthas, cosine, koritora, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Janaan, Seviro, InfernOokami7, Sbrubbles, phagga
The Day deadline is at 2012-03-13 12:00:00. (That's approximately 23:59:38 from now.)
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I realized I made a typo in the first sentence. It should read "I never said I was 100% against lynching someone on Day 1..." I accidentally added a not.
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On March 12 2012 11:30 cosine wrote:
please follow your line of thinking through to conclusion. if we no lynch day 1, then what? the scum are given a chance to nightkill. now what's our plan for day 2? how could it be different from day 1? statistically we'd still be likely to lynch town, so do we no lynch again day 2? when does it stop? well, it would stop when the scum won the game because we never even tried to lynch them. "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take..."
Yeah but even in a no lynch scenario we can have some good information since we have an active enough town. Whatever we decide we can start to see the people that seems to stand out of the group, who bangwagon, etc. I agree though that a lynch with strong argument would be a lot better but right now I don't have enough suspicion on anyone to vote someone.
As for the deadline I think that it's a good idea to make clear what we decide to do some hour before the actual deadline so that we can note who vote on vote and discuss based on that.
If i'm correct we have about 22 hour left of day time so I suggest that we come out with a decision in 13 to 15 hour if we want to have a bit of time before the night.
P.S. I reread my first post and I want to clarify that I stated a random lynch because I was afraid to have a not very active day 1 and I wanted to make it clear that if we were to lynch someone we had to discuss it in depth.
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On March 12 2012 10:46 Sbrubbles wrote:We have Koritora, Phagga, Elean and Inferno lurking as of this moment. Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Sure, Koritora, we could single out Inferno (or whoever you're actually referring to) for not being dead set on lynching without cause, but I don't think this is scum behavior per se. The fact that he actually has an opinion and wrote a bit on it, though, is good for singling him out if he does have a scummy attitude later on. Your post, on the other hand, doesn't add anything to the discussion and doesn't even have enough content so that we can use it to analyse you later on. So, how about putting a little more effort?
Well it would be better to narrow the field of suspects down. I am for lurker lynching since it wouldn't effect the town, but since all the lurkers have come out of hiding, then that is not really up for discussion. Random lynchings, however, aren't really fair in nature. Suitable claims and other evidence is necessary.
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On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree.
please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me.
for now, im thinking eleanthas.
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On March 12 2012 10:12 koritora wrote:
Riddle me this. Riddle me that. Don't lynch me unless based on fact...
Not sure if making a boring rhyme or trying to get us to not lynch him for lurking.
On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies.
Okay, then from your logic, we should lynch… You, or people who don’t want to lynch day 1. Ok then.
Koritora, what is your opinion on cosine and Eleanthas?
On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything.
1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me.
2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion
3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness
4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious.
As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play.
On March 12 2012 10:46 Sbrubbles wrote:We have Koritora, Phagga, Elean and Inferno lurking as of this moment. Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Sure, Koritora, we could single out Inferno (or whoever you're actually referring to) for not being dead set on lynching without cause, but I don't think this is scum behavior per se. The fact that he actually has an opinion and wrote a bit on it, though, is good for singling him out if he does have a scummy attitude later on. Your post, on the other hand, doesn't add anything to the discussion and doesn't even have enough content so that we can use it to analyse you later on. So, how about putting a little more effort?
Arguably, you are contributing on close to the same level as Koritora. The main thing is that you don’t really add anything except with disagreeing with other people. To you as well, what are your thoughts on cosine and Eleanthas in particular? It seems that you ignored most of the discussion relating to this.
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Hosts, can you please add filter-links to the player list?
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Where is FirmTofu? He posted a lurker list 5 hours into the game (which is VERY early for a lurkerlist) and has not posted since then. If we would hold him up to his own standard, he is lurking very hard. You can see his filter here
I read through all the filters, and besides FirmTofu the following people are rather suspicious to me:
- Eleanthas (Only posted a one liner)
- koritora (not posting anything of value)
- sbrubbles (only two posts in rapid succession where he basically calls out lurkers and fluff, only to disappear again).
IMO, if there is a DT out there, these four would be possible check targets. What do you guys think about it?
Also, if none of them adds anyhting significant in the next 6 hours, my vote will go to one of these four.
Soft deadline 8 hours before is ok with me. Also, as a heads up, I generally won't be around on deadline, as it is at 3 am in my timezone. By final vote will normally be casted around 5 to 3 hours before deadline.
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On March 12 2012 18:33 phagga wrote:Where is FirmTofu? He posted a lurker list 5 hours into the game (which is VERY early for a lurkerlist) and has not posted since then. If we would hold him up to his own standard, he is lurking very hard. You can see his filter hereI read through all the filters, and besides FirmTofu the following people are rather suspicious to me: - Eleanthas (Only posted a one liner) - koritora (not posting anything of value) - sbrubbles (only two posts in rapid succession where he basically calls out lurkers and fluff, only to disappear again). IMO, if there is a DT out there, these four would be possible check targets. What do you guys think about it? Also, if none of them adds anyhting significant in the next 6 hours, my vote will go to one of these four. Soft deadline 8 hours before is ok with me. Also, as a heads up, I generally won't be around on deadline, as it is at 3 am in my timezone. By final vote will normally be casted around 5 to 3 hours before deadline.
I agree with your lynch candidates, and I think that Eleanthas should be our main target until he posts.
I was also wondering about tofu, I hope he shows up and weighs in on everything.
Thanks Probulous for the filters
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On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:12 koritora wrote:
Riddle me this. Riddle me that. Don't lynch me unless based on fact...
Not sure if making a boring rhyme or trying to get us to not lynch him for lurking. Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Okay, then from your logic, we should lynch… You, or people who don’t want to lynch day 1. Ok then. Koritora, what is your opinion on cosine and Eleanthas? Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:46 Sbrubbles wrote:We have Koritora, Phagga, Elean and Inferno lurking as of this moment. On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Sure, Koritora, we could single out Inferno (or whoever you're actually referring to) for not being dead set on lynching without cause, but I don't think this is scum behavior per se. The fact that he actually has an opinion and wrote a bit on it, though, is good for singling him out if he does have a scummy attitude later on. Your post, on the other hand, doesn't add anything to the discussion and doesn't even have enough content so that we can use it to analyse you later on. So, how about putting a little more effort? Arguably, you are contributing on close to the same level as Koritora. The main thing is that you don’t really add anything except with disagreeing with other people. To you as well, what are your thoughts on cosine and Eleanthas in particular? It seems that you ignored most of the discussion relating to this.
Well to answer your first question, the one liner is not exactly foretelling as to whether or not Eleanthas is part of the mafia or not. However, it is suspicious that he hasn't posted anything since--means to try to draw suspicion away or something. In reference to Cosine, well it's hard to read what his motives are. His words are a little contradictory in my opinion. He was all for lynching without a cause since no lynch would be bad, then a few posts later he says that people misunderstood. As for me not posting anything of value, well, my bad. Still learning the ropes of this game which is why I joined this one. Plus, It's hard to read people day 1 anyhow which is why I was for lynching the lurkers. And yes, it was a rhyme, but a truthful one. Besides the lynching of lurkers, it would not be beneficial to lynch unless some sort of evidence exists for it to occur.
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On March 12 2012 19:56 koritora wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 12 2012 10:12 koritora wrote:
Riddle me this. Riddle me that. Don't lynch me unless based on fact...
Not sure if making a boring rhyme or trying to get us to not lynch him for lurking. On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Okay, then from your logic, we should lynch… You, or people who don’t want to lynch day 1. Ok then. Koritora, what is your opinion on cosine and Eleanthas? On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. On March 12 2012 10:46 Sbrubbles wrote:We have Koritora, Phagga, Elean and Inferno lurking as of this moment. On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Sure, Koritora, we could single out Inferno (or whoever you're actually referring to) for not being dead set on lynching without cause, but I don't think this is scum behavior per se. The fact that he actually has an opinion and wrote a bit on it, though, is good for singling him out if he does have a scummy attitude later on. Your post, on the other hand, doesn't add anything to the discussion and doesn't even have enough content so that we can use it to analyse you later on. So, how about putting a little more effort? Arguably, you are contributing on close to the same level as Koritora. The main thing is that you don’t really add anything except with disagreeing with other people. To you as well, what are your thoughts on cosine and Eleanthas in particular? It seems that you ignored most of the discussion relating to this. Well to answer your first question, the one liner is not exactly foretelling as to whether or not Eleanthas is part of the mafia or not. However, it is suspicious that he hasn't posted anything since--means to try to draw suspicion away or something. In reference to Cosine, well it's hard to read what his motives are. His words are a little contradictory in my opinion. He was all for lynching without a cause since no lynch would be bad, then a few posts later he says that people misunderstood. As for me not posting anything of value, well, my bad. Still learning the ropes of this game which is why I joined this one. Plus, It's hard to read people day 1 anyhow which is why I was for lynching the lurkers. And yes, it was a rhyme, but a truthful one. Besides the lynching of lurkers, it would not be beneficial to lynch unless some sort of evidence exists for it to occur.
Okay, thanks for the insights. Just continue to try to post often and discuss things just like what you wrote above. It would be better if you could recommend a course of action relating to your deductions regarding certain people. I.E.How we are likely to lynch Eleanthas if he doesnt post up.
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On March 12 2012 19:56 koritora wrote:
Well to answer your first question, the one liner is not exactly foretelling as to whether or not Eleanthas is part of the mafia or not. However, it is suspicious that he hasn't posted anything since--means to try to draw suspicion away or something.
I agree. Lynching lurkers only makes sense when they are still participating in the game (means voting every day). Else their lurking is probably related to real life issues and don't say anything about their alignement, so it's probably better to just get them modkilled/replaced.
On March 12 2012 19:56 koritora wrote:
In reference to Cosine, well it's hard to read what his motives are. His words are a little contradictory in my opinion. He was all for lynching without a cause since no lynch would be bad, then a few posts later he says that people misunderstood.
I disagree. I read it that he does want to lynch on day 1, but does not want to lynch a lurker on day 1. I understand his position, as I had a similar one last game. So he does want to lynch every day, and is not contradicting himself IMO.
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Ehm, is there a voting thread already? Because I don't see one linked in the OP. Or do we vote in this thread here?
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On March 12 2012 21:51 phagga wrote:
Ehm, is there a voting thread already? Because I don't see one linked in the OP. Or do we vote in this thread here?
I think its this thread itself, as there was no link in the op and it had "This Thread" underlined.
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United States22154 Posts
On March 12 2012 21:51 phagga wrote:
Ehm, is there a voting thread already? Because I don't see one linked in the OP. Or do we vote in this thread here?
Here please
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On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas.
You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate.
Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious?
Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything.
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Alright I'm going to post my thoughts about a few specific discussions/players that have been going on lately:
@sbrubbles/Nova_terra discussion:
I don't think sbrubbles first two posts were fluff/useless they were both effective at pressuring responses out of the two people he directed it at, nova_terra and koritora. The reason I think he was drawn into getting a response out of Nova_terra is because so far he has shown to be an emotional player. Seems to get frustrated/offended if people question his style or motives. That being said, I think that's all I think of him based on his posts now, an active emotional townie. At least his activity spark discussion which is overall good for the town. Sbrubbles getting a response from koritora was important cause it showed he's at least paying attention to the thread, unlike Elenathus who hasn't responded to the suspicions on him.
@Elenathus
Still hasn't responded to the couple of claims from different players calling him suspicious. A bit scummy, but not enough responsiveness to show true signs of being scum.
@Firmtofu
I find this case a bit interesting. Posts twice early, to get out of the "lurking" zone. Lets look at these posts:
On March 11 2012 11:49 FirmTofu wrote:
A no lynch is always better than a lynch unfounded in evidence.
Or is it?
We can watch the who votes on who. We can observe who listens to who. We can deduce who has a inherently positive disposition to who.
I find myself sounding rather like an owl :/
A confusing fluff post. Says one thing, but than questions it in the next sentence. Wishy washy behaviours. Onto post 2.
On March 11 2012 16:01 FirmTofu wrote:
I say we lynch a lurker. Take your pick.
6.) InfernOokami7
7.) koritora
8.) Eleanthas
9.) Sbrubbles
10.) cosine
12.) Nova_Terra
If they talk, don't kill them. Pretty simple concept I'm sure we can all agree on. Lurkers aren't going to help anyone.
If they talk, don't kill them. Great, as expected everyone talked. Now what firmtofu? Then says the sentence in bold. Calls lynching lurkers the best option, and talking for the town saying we agree on it. However, at the time, most people were trying to pressure people into talking and actually putting a day 1 case together with an option for a lurker lynch if the cases don't flesh out. Ironically, after he posts this he just lurks.
Also before the game he states how he is no n00b and actually participated in many mafia. He is an enthusiast, so his lack of posting shouldn't be because of a noob not reading the thread, or someone who lacks interest in the game. So why the lurking? He may just be busy, but I think the way he assumed/pushed the lurker lynch. And the inconsistentness between his first 2 posts --> Goes from no lynch w/o evidence, to better to lynch regardless, to we should make cases on what people say, to lurker lynch.
I'm not saying he's scum for sure, but I think this is suspicious. I am looking forward to hear his response, and will appropriately judge more from there.
@activity of the game: we are about 12.5 hours away from voting deadline, and I feel like we need to be more active in order to put a lynch case that most can agree on together. As of now, there is no strong case for a lynch, neither is there a general agreement on the lynch. Only upped discussion and analysis will help us here.
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Day 1 vote. Remember you need a majority at the deadline to lynch,
Current votes:
Not voting: FirmTofu, Nova_Terra, Eleanthas, cosine, koritora, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Janaan, Seviro, InfernOokami7, Sbrubbles, phagga
The Day deadline is at 2012-03-13 12:00:00. (That's approximately 11:58:58 from now.)
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EBWOP: @Infern0akami: Has posted a couple of times, but mostly just a quick statement. Not much into sharing his opinions yet or actually putting together a case. Still considered a lurker by me and would like to here his opinions on the current activities in the thread, or if he has any people he is suspicious of.
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Concerning InfernOokami7: I was not aware that all his posts were already written quite early. I share the suspicioun towards him that was brought up by others.
Also, a small correction: The vote deadline is at 4 am in my Timezone, so I will normally cast my final vote 6 to 4 hours before the deadline.
I might not be online before the 8 hour soft deadline, so I vote now. I will be online again before the real deadline, so I will have time to adjust should something substantial happen.
FirmTofu is my choice because I feel that he tried to establish activity with 2 fast posts and then disappeared. The posts don't have any real content, the first one is just fluff and the second one is an invalid list.
##Vote FirmTofu
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On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate.
Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything.
No, I did not accuse him, however i did say that if he didnt post again and was lurking after a suspicious post that he had made, he would be a good lynch candidate. Its no more than suggesting we lynch a suspicious lurker during the day.
I insisted once again on explaining the motives for my change of atitude because you seemed to ignore it and continue along your train of thought. felt that i had to clarify again so you would be sure to understand my motives.
Now if you were suspicious of someone, and then somebody called you suspicious for being suspicious of that person, then went on to say the exact same reasons for also finding the person you accused of being suspicious of suspicious, wouldn't you be frustrated too? It just doesn't make sense to me. like, " This makes you seem guilty, but yeah i agree for all of the reasons you just said."
And where did i threaten you? The fact that i was working on showing why i found your post to be suspicious isnt a threat. Its just what i was working on already. I didnt do it as a result or becoming mad or anything, i just wanted to show why it was strange. And once again it appears that you seem to have completely ignored my post. You should go back and read/respond to it.
@Mementoss, yeah, im mad. Its because I dont understand why the rest of the town is thinking differently than me. or thinking the same and yet finding me suspicious for thinking in the way i am. It just doesnt make sense to me
Eleanthas has my vote currently, until he posts up, and i think that he is the best candidate as the other 'lurkers' posted and his post was widely found suspicious.
##Vote Eleanthas
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EBWOP: also, why would Sbrubbles want to pressure me for a response?
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Ok. Sorry for not responding. Saw discussion towards me at school with my phone, but really hard to write anything with it so decided to wait untill I come home. Anyway have been busy atm. Will change now.
So what Can i say about first post. It was really just a post to tell people I'm alive. In some forums, you get replaced if you don't speak on first half of day, so I guess I followed that rule there. Had really nothing to say. Just plain stupid first post from me.
About Nova_Terra:
He seems eager to accuse anybody scum if given even a small chance. I guess he is trying to presure players to talk to get discussion going on. Doesn't seem too scummy for me, but have to keep eye on him.
So what I think about InfernOokami7:
On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead.
beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him.
And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him.
##Vote FirmTofu
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Catching up on the thread, I'll post my thoughts shortly.
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@Eleanthas, good to see you. For now, I'll put my original suspicion of you to the side and move on.
@Nova Terra, now that Eleanthas showed up, does that change your opinion of him? If so, who are you most suspicious of now?
I think that FirmTofu is playing very strangely. His first post, I honestly can't tell what he was trying to say. Is he for or against a no lynch?
Then with his second post, he seems to clarify that by calling for a policy lynch and giving us a list of who exactly we should be looking at to policy lynch. His target of choice is, as usual, lurkers. The problem is, in my mind, he's the biggest lurker in the game now that Eleanthas has showed up. It seems contradictory and a bit scummy. My preliminary vote will be going to him.
## Vote: FirmTofu
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EBWOP
Added an extra space to my vote by accident.
##Vote: FirmTofu
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EBWOP
Atleast it says you have to have : on vote so making sure my vote counts
##Vote: FirmTofu
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At the moment I don't see how Eleanthas is acting any more scummy than others. Regarding FirTofu, I was going to make the same case as Mementoss, but was just waiting for more posts by him / her. So, I will add my vote untill / if other information becomes available.
##Vote: FirmTofu
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How many times do i have to say im not acc.... forget about it
Janaan I dont really think that Firmtofu is more suspicious than say Cosine, but Cosine had a chance to come and explain. if thats the plan for a lynch though, i dont disagree.
##Unvote Eleanthas
##Vote FirmTofu
This will likely be my last post for tonight, see you in the morning
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I'm voting FirmTofu for the reasons laid out in one of my earlier posts. It was between him and Eleanthas for me, but Eleanthas actually showed up to defend himself. I will be on later tonight as well and if anything new comes to the table I'm up for reviewing my vote. As it stands currently however:
##Vote: FirmTofu
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Last 2 hours to affect to my vote. Then going to go to sleep.
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In terms of lack of posts, Firm and Inferno are the same, but since Firm was dead set of lynching lurkers, I suppose it is only appropriate for him to go first. I still hope both him and Inferno will show up and talk before the voting is finalized we can avoid this.
##Vote FirmTofu
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Truthfully i have a feeling that this vote will end up mislynching a townie. I think a mafia would be defending themselves right now. even so, i dont see how we could get much of a better lynch....
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On March 13 2012 05:09 Nova_Terra wrote:
Truthfully i have a feeling that this vote will end up mislynching a townie. I think a mafia would be defending themselves right now. even so, i dont see how we could get much of a better lynch....
If you don't think it has a chance to flip scum, then why are you jumping on the bandwagon to vote? Shouldn't you be either pushing another case or voting for a no-lynch...
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Oh, of course i do think there is a chance for a scum flip. im just not very confidant in this lynch. I think that having a no lynch wouldnt give us anything to work with and think that it is almost a worse idea than bandwagoning. I also feel that im not in a position to make another case as im still having to defend myself for making my first pressure.
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I agree that the vote is going a bit easy. However, the following 5 people have not yet voted:
4.) Seviro
5.) FirmTofu
6.) InfernOokami7
7.) koritora
10.) cosine
So it is hard to tell if scum just missed the chance to defend him or if he is indeed town.
I would also like that you all consider the possibility that real life caught up with FirmTofu and he won't be voting, meaning he will be replaced. In that case i would not want to lynch him. However, as I wrote earlier, I won't be around lynchtime (in fact, I'll go offline in about 20 minutes), so I wont have a chance to react accordingly.
For now, my vote stays on him. And in case that a colon is indeed needed in the vote:
##Vote: FirmTofu
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i really dislike firmtofu's call for a lurker lynch, especially so early, then dropping off completely. i think he's a decent lynch candidate, but i still don't like el. the one thing eleanthus has going for him in my mind is that he at least responded. i'll give tofu the same opportunity. i'm not dropping a vote until i go to bed. if tofu hasn't responded by then, he's def my choice.
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I hope that people learn my name by the end of the game or only call me as Ele ^^
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@Nova_Terra, for someone so opinionated about the everyone else's absence from this tread, I'm surprised you have such little to say about FirmTofu's absence, only than to say that you're not confident in with the everyone trying to lynch him. Why is that?
I feel that FirmTofu's first few comments were to produce discussion from those who hadn't contributed to the game (myself included on that list). I don't find fault in that initial posting, but his absence from that point is suspicious. His post drew attention to everyone else in the thread, while he could sit back and watch everyone on that list try to make a case for themselves not to get lynched.
##Vote: FirmTofu
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On March 13 2012 06:22 InfernOokami7 wrote:
@Nova_Terra, for someone so opinionated about the everyone else's absence from this tread, I'm surprised you have such little to say about FirmTofu's absence, only than to say that you're not confident in with the everyone trying to lynch him. Why is that?
I feel that FirmTofu's first few comments were to produce discussion from those who hadn't contributed to the game (myself included on that list). I don't find fault in that initial posting, but his absence from that point is suspicious. His post drew attention to everyone else in the thread, while he could sit back and watch everyone on that list try to make a case for themselves not to get lynched.
##Vote: FirmTofu
Oh, simply because he was one of the few early posters that generated discussion, and therefore i was more suspicious of those who didnt. I feel that he is being sufficently pressured to the point of where if he was lurking, he would say something, and therefore i find it more likely that RL got in the way and that he should be given the chance to respond. Also, its going a little too easily.
Eleanthas, i think i finally got it right!
Ok. i decided that i dont want a lynch on tofu, yet. lemme quickly find someone not likely to be voted so i can put a vote on them (not actually trying to lynch you, no hard feelings)
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Okay, gossemerr, read the post above. I dont feel that a lynch on firmtofu will have any non-town results.
This is not trying to lynch you. I apologise for being so wishy washy and understand why people may not like this decision.
Unvote: FirmTofu
Vote: Gossemerr
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EBWOP: Ugh, sorry. forgot ##
##Unvote: FirmTofu
##Vote: Gossemerr
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On March 13 2012 06:34 Nova_Terra wrote:
Okay, gossemerr, read the post above. I dont feel that a lynch on firmtofu will have any non-town results.
This is not trying to lynch you. I apologise for being so wishy washy and understand why people may not like this decision.
Unvote: FirmTofu
Vote: Gossemerr
You realize you can just vote for a no lynch?
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Oh god i'm late to the party today, Real life can be a whore
On March 13 2012 06:34 Nova_Terra wrote:
Okay, gossemerr, read the post above. I dont feel that a lynch on firmtofu will have any non-town results.
This is not trying to lynch you. I apologise for being so wishy washy and understand why people may not like this decision.
Unvote: FirmTofu
Vote: Gossemerr
I think you would be better voting for a no lynch because voting randomly for someone like this seems a bit scummy in my opinion but i guess you just didn't notice that you could just vote no lynch
I took time to read what was told after my last post and after rereading FirmTofu posts I kind of agree that it is strange since he didn't add very with those except for a list of lurker, but right now he is one of those who didn't post very much with only 2 posts.
I feel he was just saying "ok i'm here so don't target me, target these one instead" it is kinda ironical that he didn't post at all after posting a list of lurker.
So for now I guess
##Vote: FirmTofu
P.S. Make sure that you wrote your vote in the correct format or else it will not count, I saw a couple of mistyped vote so be careful with that
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i was already suspicious of his ridiculously early pushing for a lurker lynch, but tofu's complete disappearance is just perplexing. could be noob scum who doesn't know how to respond when the pressure is on him. i think he's our best lynch choice today. i'm out for the night, so
##Vote: FirmTofu
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I had hoped to come back to Tofu explaining himself, but it seems that he's no where to be found. Since nothing has changed since my original vote, and there's no additional leads on anyone else, my vote will not be changing. I'll try to keep tabs on the thread before the deadline if something does come up, though.
I do find Nova's vote switch interesting, since he said that there is a chance for Tofu to flip scum, but decided to essentially vote no lynch without giving his reasoning other than that he just decided. But that's not inherently scummy.
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Well besides the fact FirmTofu has only made talk about lynching a lurker, there isn't really much else to go on. Same case can be made for InfernoOkami7. But since either hasn't spoken up lately, I can only assume they are lurking and that puts my vote up in the air for these two unless they come and contribute something meaningful. But as of the moment, I can't decide between the two and therefore going with a no lynch.
##Vote: No Lynch
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Since nobody is stepping up to defend FirmTofu, minus possibly the last post by kori and a earlier change of heart by nova, I have a feeling that FirmTofu is town. That is of course unless nova and possibly kori are scum as well. I'm not changing my vote, just putting that point out there.
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Given that we're this far into the voting and Firm still hasn't showed up, I'm thinking he's simply given up on the game. Since there's a good chance he may be replaced by our host, I'm gonna change my vote to No Lynch.
I suggest somebody else who voted for him stay online until the voting deadline and change the vote at the last minute if he still hasn't given signs of life. Voting is mandatory as per OP, so not voting makes him liable to be replaced (or modkilled). If he shows up and votes at the very last minute without saying anything, we can assume it's scummy behavior and possibly lynch him tomorrow.
Of course, this assumes he is not mafia, but usually being mafia (and town PRs, for that matter) make playing more exiting, so I don't think it's a bad assumption.
##Unvote: FirmTofu
##Vote: No Lynch
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On March 13 2012 10:02 Sbrubbles wrote:
Given that we're this far into the voting and Firm still hasn't showed up, I'm thinking he's simply given up on the game. Since there's a good chance he may be replaced by our host, I'm gonna change my vote to No Lynch.
I suggest somebody else who voted for him stay online until the voting deadline and change the vote at the last minute if he still hasn't given signs of life. Voting is mandatory as per OP, so not voting makes him liable to be replaced (or modkilled). If he shows up and votes at the very last minute without saying anything, we can assume it's scummy behavior and possibly lynch him tomorrow.
Of course, this assumes he is not mafia, but usually being mafia (and town PRs, for that matter) make playing more exiting, so I don't think it's a bad assumption.
##Unvote: FirmTofu
##Vote: No Lynch
Hmm, here's a vote tally:
FirmTofu:
phagga
Eleantheas
Janaan
Gossemerr
Memetoss
Infernookami
Seviro
cosine
Gossemerr:
NovaTerra
No Lynch:
Sbrubbles
koritora
I just realised that for what I said to work we would need another person to switch to No Lynch and a third person stay up to the deadline. It's up to you guys if you want to go through with this or take a chance on having him replaced.
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Voting is closed
Night Post incoming
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Day 1 vote. Remember you need a majority at the deadline to lynch,
Current votes:
FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Nova_Terra, Mementoss, Sbrubbles, -Nova_Terra, Seviro, cosine, -Sbrubbles
No Lynch (2): koritora, Sbrubbles
Gossemerr (1): Nova_Terra
Eleanthas (0): Nova_Terra, -Nova_Terra
Not voting: FirmTofu, InfernOokami7
The Day deadline is at 2012-03-13 12:00:00. (It's over.)
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Night 1
The dank bunker bubbled with tension. Whispering accusations of murder.
"They found him. They've found the shapeshifter."
There wasn't much FirmTofu could do, the men wanted blood and his was to be spilled. Stoic to the end he would gladly give up his life for the resistance. A leather belt noose is wrapped around FirmTofu neck as he steps onto a wooden chair. The men throw the belt over the overhead plumbing pipes and snigger at his resolute pose.
“Any last words before you swing for your crimes”
FirmTofu looked around at his comrades and grinned. Silent to the end. As the chair is kicked from beneath him he begins to jerk and writhe. A pasty sickly green foam of spews from his chattering mouth.
The men turned to each other. The night was yet to come.
FirmTofu the Vanilla Townie has swung from the drainpipes
It is now night 1! Please send all night actions to both myself and GMarshal. The deadline is 12:00 KST.
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GG FirmTofu
I think we need to use this night phase to get some cases rolling. We don't have much to go on as far as cases go from Day 1, so we've got our work cut out for us.
One thing I noticed from the votes that I found very interesting was Koritora's No Lynch vote. Here's one of his early posts:
On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies.
Then he turns around and:
On March 13 2012 09:37 koritora wrote:
Well besides the fact FirmTofu has only made talk about lynching a lurker, there isn't really much else to go on. Same case can be made for InfernoOkami7. But since either hasn't spoken up lately, I can only assume they are lurking and that puts my vote up in the air for these two unless they come and contribute something meaningful. But as of the moment, I can't decide between the two and therefore going with a no lynch.
##Vote: No Lynch
First he says that he's suspicious of anyone who is against lynching on day 1. Then he's all of a sudden against lynching on day 1? This seems like a huge contradiction to me. Is it possible that he's trying to take away suspicion since he didn't vote for the mislynch? I'm not sure, but it's definitely possible. I think he's definitely worth a closer look.
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mmm, you bring up a good point, also in his post before his vote he stated once again yhat he is against a no-lynch.
On March 12 2012 19:56 koritora wrote:
Well to answer your first question, the one liner is not exactly foretelling as to whether or not Eleanthas is part of the mafia or not. However, it is suspicious that he hasn't posted anything since--means to try to draw suspicion away or something. In reference to Cosine, well it's hard to read what his motives are. His words are a little contradictory in my opinion. He was all for lynching without a cause since no lynch would be bad, then a few posts later he says that people misunderstood. As for me not posting anything of value, well, my bad. Still learning the ropes of this game which is why I joined this one. Plus, It's hard to read people day 1 anyhow which is why I was for lynching the lurkers. And yes, it was a rhyme, but a truthful one. Besides the lynching of lurkers, it would not be beneficial to lynch unless some sort of evidence exists for it to occur.
For someone that talk about Cosine's word being contradictory he does a good job of contradict himself. I mean he said that a no lynch would be ok if we had no lurker and nothing on anyone but in my eyes FirmTofu was lurking. Someone that post only at the start of the day and never after is what I call a lurker. Hell, he didn't even vote.
It's sad tho that he was a townie since he would've probably been replaced after his no vote. I guess we'll have to wait for the mafia kill to get some more information depending on who they kill.
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On March 13 2012 07:19 Gossemerr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 06:34 Nova_Terra wrote:
Okay, gossemerr, read the post above. I dont feel that a lynch on firmtofu will have any non-town results.
This is not trying to lynch you. I apologise for being so wishy washy and understand why people may not like this decision.
Unvote: FirmTofu
Vote: Gossemerr
You realize you can just vote for a no lynch?
OH, damn, my bad. when i saw that voting is mandatory, i just assumed that meant if nobody has majority it goes to no lynch.
sad about tofu's death.
I do think kori's posts were a bit strange, and it definitely merits further discussion. Also, the general lack of posts from him doesnt help his case.
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Damn, tofu why didn't you just come back for some defense QQ.
Also yeah, at least it gave some information in the way that it shows how people are voting, when the pressure is on right before the vote, and how it contradicts their statements during the day. As the above posts have said kori starts being suspicious of no-lynchers, then votes no-lynch.
Could this be a desperate attempt to have I-told-ya so moment for today? To prove his innocence, that he was not part of the Tofu vote? Seems awfully odd. We will have to hear his response.
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So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu.
Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again:
FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine,
Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious.
Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read.
Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious.
Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read.
cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that.
Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one:
On March 13 2012 01:57 Eleanthas wrote:Ok. Sorry for not responding. Saw discussion towards me at school with my phone, but really hard to write anything with it so decided to wait untill I come home. Anyway have been busy atm. Will change now. 1So what Can i say about first post. It was really just a post to tell people I'm alive. In some forums, you get replaced if you don't speak on first half of day, so I guess I followed that rule there. Had really nothing to say. Just plain stupid first post from me. 2About Nova_Terra: He seems eager to accuse anybody scum if given even a small chance. I guess he is trying to presure players to talk to get discussion going on. Doesn't seem too scummy for me, but have to keep eye on him. 3So what I think about InfernOokami7: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead. beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him. 4And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him. 5
##Vote FirmTofu
1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad.
3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase:
On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:
I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking.
Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording.
4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss.
5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time.
So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game.
##FoS: Eleanthas
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So, if there is a DT in this game, and he does not know who he should check, I would propose that he chose someone from this list:
- Eleanthas
- koritora
- cosine
What does everyone else think?
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On March 14 2012 01:21 phagga wrote:
So, if there is a DT in this game, and he does not know who he should check, I would propose that he chose someone from this list:
- Eleanthas
- koritora
- cosine
What does everyone else think?
I am in agreement with those three being good suspects for a dt to check.
I want them (as well as everyone else) to come and post more. The trend seems to be posting some excuse for not posting and then not posting again.
I have a couple other minor suspicions right now, but nothing worth noting, until i have a bit more to work with.
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On March 14 2012 02:30 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 01:21 phagga wrote:
So, if there is a DT in this game, and he does not know who he should check, I would propose that he chose someone from this list:
- Eleanthas
- koritora
- cosine
What does everyone else think? I am in agreement with those three being good suspects for a dt to check. I want them (as well as everyone else) to come and post more. The trend seems to be posting some excuse for not posting and then not posting again. I have a couple other minor suspicions right now, but nothing worth noting, until i have a bit more to work with.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote:So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:57 Eleanthas wrote:Ok. Sorry for not responding. Saw discussion towards me at school with my phone, but really hard to write anything with it so decided to wait untill I come home. Anyway have been busy atm. Will change now. 1So what Can i say about first post. It was really just a post to tell people I'm alive. In some forums, you get replaced if you don't speak on first half of day, so I guess I followed that rule there. Had really nothing to say. Just plain stupid first post from me. 2About Nova_Terra: He seems eager to accuse anybody scum if given even a small chance. I guess he is trying to presure players to talk to get discussion going on. Doesn't seem too scummy for me, but have to keep eye on him. 3So what I think about InfernOokami7: On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead. beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him. 4And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him. 5
##Vote FirmTofu 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:
I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas
Good analysis post Phagga, its hard to do any follow up analysis with heavy lurking going on in the thread. We need people to post/respond to pressure so we can analyse more play, and don't end up with another firmtofu situation. So far what your saying is on the same track of thought I was thinking.
I also agree with the suspects for DT check in that order. I'm worried that we don't have a DT though the last mini I played in is almost finishing up and it's looking like there was no DT. Also if there is a DT be careful about a claim slip. If you check someone and need to push or defend, make sure you have a case to back it up. Either a) You will be forced into a claim too early. b) People think you are crazy/scum. c) Makes your role too obvious to mafia.
Also something harder to discuss is the case if we have a medic. We obviously can't say who to protect outright, or the mafia will just avoid that person. But maybe mention an idea of a couple people to try and get a successful save.
All and all I'm not 100% sure what to talk about in the night. Other than power role ideas/ previous lynch. I feel like last game I played I had a good hard analysis in the night that lead to my death. And the analysis was buried by mafia in day 2. Right now I have my suspicious, but nothing developed much further than my previous analysis post. Need people to be more active before I can put together any cases.
Lurking town lets the mafia safely lurk beside them. So keep it active folks.
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On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote:
Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one:
Is it wrong that you agree with people? I really think that there was nothing new anybody could have risen up.
Besides. It was pretty much case of ''If you don't speak, we lynch you.'', so decided to post my view of the game that point (wich agreed with many people), than being lynched for saying nothing.
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EBWOP
I don't really like putting list of guys who should be checked and tell DT to check one of them. If mafia has framer, it makes it too easy to make someone appear as mafia.
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EBWOP: Is infern0 getting replaced? As far as I remember I don't think he voted last night. I guess we will wait and see.
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General Reminder: All actions to be sent to both GMarshal and myself. I will be doing the Day post so if I don't get your action you will miss out. As for inferno, he attempted to vote but his vote was formatted incorrectly. I am checking with GMarshal what the outcome of this will be. In the meantime, continue as normal.
I love blue text
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On March 14 2012 03:03 Eleanthas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote:
Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one:
Is it wrong that you agree with people? I really think that there was nothing new anybody could have risen up. Besides. It was pretty much case of ''If you don't speak, we lynch you.'', so decided to post my view of the game that point (wich agreed with many people), than being lynched for saying nothing.
It is not wrong to agree with people. It is, however, suspicious if you only agree with people and never bring up anything substantial by yourself.
On March 14 2012 03:05 Eleanthas wrote:
EBWOP
I don't really like putting list of guys who should be checked and tell DT to check one of them. If mafia has framer, it makes it too easy to make someone appear as mafia.
Good point. However, the DT is up to check whoever he wants. The list I made is here to give the DT options in case he feels unsure, and to spark discussion. And we really need discussion, because this game is pretty dead, and that makes it easy for the mafia.
But how about you tell us what you think of Koritora and Cosine?
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Reminder
Please remember to format your votes correctly. I would suggest checking the ZBot post on page 2 to confirm your vote has been counted.
Inferno attempted to vote but formatted his vote incorrectly. It was an innocent mistake and so he will not be replaced. If you have any questions, please PM me or GMarshal.
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There is not much action going on so it is kinda hard to read anyone. Only thing that pops out at me is Janaan talking about the days votes after its already over. Earlier he said he would keep watch on the thread, and koritora posted the no lynch vote only a few minutes after his (Janaan's) last post. Kinda scummy imo to bring this up after the fact. Either way I agree with the analysis, just weird timing.
On March 13 2012 14:06 Janaan wrote:GG FirmTofu I think we need to use this night phase to get some cases rolling. We don't have much to go on as far as cases go from Day 1, so we've got our work cut out for us. One thing I noticed from the votes that I found very interesting was Koritora's No Lynch vote. Here's one of his early posts: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Then he turns around and: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 09:37 koritora wrote:
Well besides the fact FirmTofu has only made talk about lynching a lurker, there isn't really much else to go on. Same case can be made for InfernoOkami7. But since either hasn't spoken up lately, I can only assume they are lurking and that puts my vote up in the air for these two unless they come and contribute something meaningful. But as of the moment, I can't decide between the two and therefore going with a no lynch.
##Vote: No Lynch First he says that he's suspicious of anyone who is against lynching on day 1. Then he's all of a sudden against lynching on day 1? This seems like a huge contradiction to me. Is it possible that he's trying to take away suspicion since he didn't vote for the mislynch? I'm not sure, but it's definitely possible. I think he's definitely worth a closer look.
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Yeah, I didn't notice the discrepancy until I was looking at everyone's votes after the fact. Before Day 1 ended, I was mainly just checking for new posts every hour or so, especially something from FirmTofu, but I wasn't looking through filters for stuff like that. Maybe if I had, I would've seen it ahead of time.
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Day 2![[image loading]](http://shadowness.com/file/item7/193893/image_t6.jpg)
"Gently they stir, gently rise
The dead are newborn awakening
With ravaged limbs and wet souls
Gently they sigh in rapt funeral amazement "
SBrubbles recanted an ancient rhyme to himself. Oddly appropriate for death hung heavy in the fetid bunker.
"Who called these dead to dance?
Was it the young woman learning to play the ghost song on her baby grand?
Was it the wilderness children?
Was it the ghost god himself, stuttering, cheering, chatting blindly? "
To dance. Only the dance of death. It's jiggery, chattery, leathery swing. Absurdity, a morbid recant of life extinguished.
"I called you up to anoint the earth
I called you to announce sadness falling like burned skin
I called you to wish you well
To glory in self like a new monster
And now I call you to pray "
God, what is god but food for the weak. Those who feed on fleeting fleshy hope. But I know, yes I know.
SBRubbles, in a deep melancholic haze, remains silent as the xenoblade falls and bleeds him dry.
A red dawn rises.
SBrubbles the Vanilla Townie has died.
It is now day 2! You have 48 hours to determine who to lynch. Remember, you need a majority at the deadline to lynch. The deadline is 12:00 KST. That means that votes at 21:59:59 will be counted, but votes at 22:00:00 will not.
Remember, behave like ladies and gentlemen and no editing and remember to format your votes correctly. Check the ZBot count to be sure. PM GMarshal or myself if you have any questions.
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GG sbrubbles, be sure that we'll avenge your death.
At first I was like why kill him, he was not really active, did not really help the town the first day and I didn't see him being a threat for anyone.
Now after looking at his filter, his death give me some pointers.
First, only 2 post of him contain some sort of analysis/suspicion.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate.
Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything.
In both of them, he state his suspicion on the early behaviour of Nova_Terra, maybe he was on something here.
So I looked up Nova_Terra's filter and noticed so good thing.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas.
In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him.
Then he add to not "discredit his post by calling it inexperience/carelessness" where in fact Scrubbles was in fact only giving him some sort of excuse for what he posted earlier. As Scrubbles said, being defensive over such a small thing is suspicious to me.
He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot.
He then tell why he thinks Scrubbles post was suspicous.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play.
1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me.
Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him.
2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion.
He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet.
3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness
See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do.
4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious.
What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification.
As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play.
So well at this point pretty self-explanatory.
Finally I will quote myself.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 08:36 Seviro wrote:Oh god i'm late to the party today, Real life can be a whore Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 06:34 Nova_Terra wrote:
Okay, gossemerr, read the post above. I dont feel that a lynch on firmtofu will have any non-town results.
This is not trying to lynch you. I apologise for being so wishy washy and understand why people may not like this decision.
Unvote: FirmTofu
Vote: Gossemerr
I think you would be better voting for a no lynch because voting randomly for someone like this seems a bit scummy in my opinion but i guess you just didn't notice that you could just vote no lynch
I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course)
and that kind of worked.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote:So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:57 Eleanthas wrote:Ok. Sorry for not responding. Saw discussion towards me at school with my phone, but really hard to write anything with it so decided to wait untill I come home. Anyway have been busy atm. Will change now. 1So what Can i say about first post. It was really just a post to tell people I'm alive. In some forums, you get replaced if you don't speak on first half of day, so I guess I followed that rule there. Had really nothing to say. Just plain stupid first post from me. 2About Nova_Terra: He seems eager to accuse anybody scum if given even a small chance. I guess he is trying to presure players to talk to get discussion going on. Doesn't seem too scummy for me, but have to keep eye on him. 3So what I think about InfernOokami7: On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead. beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him. 4And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him. 5
##Vote FirmTofu 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:
I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas
in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova.
So Nova_Terra I can't wait for your answers. That said, I'm going to bed
##Big FOS:Nova_Terra
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Oh and phagga, you wanted so analysis from me, here it is.
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On March 14 2012 14:13 Seviro wrote:GG sbrubbles, be sure that we'll avenge your death. At first I was like why kill him, he was not really active, did not really help the town the first day and I didn't see him being a threat for anyone. Now after looking at his filter, his death give me some pointers. First, only 2 post of him contain some sort of analysis/suspicion. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate.
Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything. In both of them, he state his suspicion on the early behaviour of Nova_Terra, maybe he was on something here. So I looked up Nova_Terra's filter and noticed so good thing. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him. Then he add to not "discredit his post by calling it inexperience/carelessness" where in fact Scrubbles was in fact only giving him some sort of excuse for what he posted earlier. As Scrubbles said, being defensive over such a small thing is suspicious to me. He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot. He then tell why he thinks Scrubbles post was suspicous. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. Show nested quote +1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him. Show nested quote +2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion. He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet. See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do. Show nested quote +4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification. Show nested quote +As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. So well at this point pretty self-explanatory. Finally I will quote myself. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 08:36 Seviro wrote:Oh god i'm late to the party today, Real life can be a whore Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 06:34 Nova_Terra wrote:
Okay, gossemerr, read the post above. I dont feel that a lynch on firmtofu will have any non-town results.
This is not trying to lynch you. I apologise for being so wishy washy and understand why people may not like this decision.
Unvote: FirmTofu
Vote: Gossemerr
I think you would be better voting for a no lynch because voting randomly for someone like this seems a bit scummy in my opinion but i guess you just didn't notice that you could just vote no lynch I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course) and that kind of worked. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote:So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:57 Eleanthas wrote:Ok. Sorry for not responding. Saw discussion towards me at school with my phone, but really hard to write anything with it so decided to wait untill I come home. Anyway have been busy atm. Will change now. 1So what Can i say about first post. It was really just a post to tell people I'm alive. In some forums, you get replaced if you don't speak on first half of day, so I guess I followed that rule there. Had really nothing to say. Just plain stupid first post from me. 2About Nova_Terra: He seems eager to accuse anybody scum if given even a small chance. I guess he is trying to presure players to talk to get discussion going on. Doesn't seem too scummy for me, but have to keep eye on him. 3So what I think about InfernOokami7: On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead. beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him. 4And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him. 5
##Vote FirmTofu 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:
I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova. So Nova_Terra I can't wait for your answers. That said, I'm going to bed ##Big FOS:Nova_Terra
Okay, i dont have time for a long post right now, but i will come on in a few hours and hopefully respond to everything in this post.
Lets just think about this for a second. Forgive me if i am wrong, but Sbrubbles didnt really present us with anything other than suspicion about me. he did it twice, i believe, and both times it was noticable. Then he dies.
Of course it makes sense to suspect me, but Thats just the point. What would the mafia gain from his death if he died? nothing really, and his only big suspicion was on me. Therefore i would seem suspicious. its like framing without a framer, i guess.
I voted for Gossemerr instead of tofu because i thought tofu was a townie and therefore not the target to lynch. it makes sense to avoid lynching someone you suspect as townie.
By thinking Eleanthas i meant that i agreed with whoever suggested a vote on him unless he stepped up, which he did. I meant that i would probably go with him of nothing else came up and he didnt post. I apologise, i should have clarified what i thought more.
sorry, i will post in a couple hours, just dont have the time, and i hate typing on an ipad.
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Seviro, while I like your analysis on a first glance, I would like to note that you start your case with some heavy WIFOM.
We have no idea what the motives of the mafia are for killing sbrubbles. We can only speculate. And if we speculate wrong, we might start hunting and lynching people for the wrong reasons, we will get WIFOM, it will create more uncertainty than facts. The only ones profiting from it will be the mafia.
There is no benefit in guessing what the mafia is up to. Also, it does not matter. Whatever the mafia wanted to achieve, we just need to make sure that we can lynch them, then we win.
However, I think your case is not only base on WIFOM, so I will go through it later when I have more time.
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The following three people have not yet posted anything since the night post (roughly 30 hours ago)
- InfernOokami7
- cosine
- koritora
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Already dead? lol
GG guys, see you all next time!
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On March 14 2012 14:13 Seviro wrote:GG sbrubbles, be sure that we'll avenge your death. At first I was like why kill him, he was not really active, did not really help the town the first day and I didn't see him being a threat for anyone. Now after looking at his filter, his death give me some pointers. First, only 2 post of him contain some sort of analysis/suspicion. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate.
Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything. In both of them, he state his suspicion on the early behaviour of Nova_Terra, maybe he was on something here. So I looked up Nova_Terra's filter and noticed so good thing. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him. Then he add to not "discredit his post by calling it inexperience/carelessness" where in fact Scrubbles was in fact only giving him some sort of excuse for what he posted earlier. As Scrubbles said, being defensive over such a small thing is suspicious to me. He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot. He then tell why he thinks Scrubbles post was suspicous. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. Show nested quote +1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him. Show nested quote +2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion. He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet. See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do. Show nested quote +4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification. Show nested quote +As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. So well at this point pretty self-explanatory. Finally I will quote myself. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 08:36 Seviro wrote:Oh god i'm late to the party today, Real life can be a whore Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 06:34 Nova_Terra wrote:
Okay, gossemerr, read the post above. I dont feel that a lynch on firmtofu will have any non-town results.
This is not trying to lynch you. I apologise for being so wishy washy and understand why people may not like this decision.
Unvote: FirmTofu
Vote: Gossemerr
I think you would be better voting for a no lynch because voting randomly for someone like this seems a bit scummy in my opinion but i guess you just didn't notice that you could just vote no lynch I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course) and that kind of worked. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote:So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:57 Eleanthas wrote:Ok. Sorry for not responding. Saw discussion towards me at school with my phone, but really hard to write anything with it so decided to wait untill I come home. Anyway have been busy atm. Will change now. 1So what Can i say about first post. It was really just a post to tell people I'm alive. In some forums, you get replaced if you don't speak on first half of day, so I guess I followed that rule there. Had really nothing to say. Just plain stupid first post from me. 2About Nova_Terra: He seems eager to accuse anybody scum if given even a small chance. I guess he is trying to presure players to talk to get discussion going on. Doesn't seem too scummy for me, but have to keep eye on him. 3So what I think about InfernOokami7: On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead. beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him. 4And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him. 5
##Vote FirmTofu 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:
I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova. So Nova_Terra I can't wait for your answers. That said, I'm going to bed ##Big FOS:Nova_Terra
I think you have been misunderstanding many of the points I’ve been making.
In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him.
Yes, that is accurate except for the part about the town being frustrated by the town not agreeing with me. I was frustrated that people found me suspicious for the ways that I found Cosine suspicions, but then immediately used my same logic to find him suspicious. I found it hypocritical. It is true that I was mad that the town didn’t think like me, yes.
He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot.
Meh, I didn’t consider it semi random as he made a suspicious first post as well and appeared to be lurking. See last post on the “thinking him” thing, I think you just interpreted “thinking him” wrong as I should have clarified it more.
Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him.
Sorry, maybe shouldn’t have used the word ‘The’ in ‘The Blame’. He was putting blame on me, not tossing it from him to me.
He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet.
Uhhh, sorry? He wanted MORE explanation about my early FOS? I thought he was accusing me for repeatedly defending myself for it. I think that I explained my early FOS well enough.
See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do.
Please clarify. I do not understand what you mean.
What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification.
I still maintain that the thing with Eleanthas as a misunderstanding where you considered my ‘Im thinking’ to not being to point a finger, Whereas I meant that that would probably be my vote if nothing happened to clarify. I was not asking for anyone else to point a finger at him, etc.
I find that my clarification of my FOS from beforehand was enough, and therefore I feel that he had an obligation to read the thread through fully, especially if he had just arrived. And he did ignore a few of my posts, as I directly talked to him and he didn’t respond.
I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course)
and that kind of worked.
Well I think/thought that my logic on FirmTofu was accurate, and therefore didn’t want to vote for someone that I was relatively sure was town, especially with the lynch going so easily. I was hoping that enough people would agree with my logic that they would stop their votes, but it was too close to the lynch deadline.
in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova.
You mean my “play” of not voting for the townie, correct?
If so, I agree that that was a nice play, as the town’s general goal is to not lynch townies. Of course, Phagga only said that he was sure we could find 1-2 scum in that list, therefore leaving 1-2 out as well, so I consider that as touching on us as well.
I find it sad that tofu died, I really thought that my reasoning was enough for people to cancel votes, but it was probably a bit WIFOMy.
Anything else?
Many of the points you made are based on WIFOM, and therefore I apologize if I was not able to respond to those in a way that cleared it up, as I have trouble defending against WIFOM cases.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 14:13 Seviro wrote:GG sbrubbles, be sure that we'll avenge your death. At first I was like why kill him, he was not really active, did not really help the town the first day and I didn't see him being a threat for anyone. Now after looking at his filter, his death give me some pointers. First, only 2 post of him contain some sort of analysis/suspicion. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate.
Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything. In both of them, he state his suspicion on the early behaviour of Nova_Terra, maybe he was on something here. So I looked up Nova_Terra's filter and noticed so good thing. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him. Then he add to not "discredit his post by calling it inexperience/carelessness" where in fact Scrubbles was in fact only giving him some sort of excuse for what he posted earlier. As Scrubbles said, being defensive over such a small thing is suspicious to me. He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot. He then tell why he thinks Scrubbles post was suspicous. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. Show nested quote +1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him. Show nested quote +2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion. He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet. See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do. Show nested quote +4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification. Show nested quote +As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. So well at this point pretty self-explanatory. Finally I will quote myself. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 08:36 Seviro wrote:Oh god i'm late to the party today, Real life can be a whore Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 06:34 Nova_Terra wrote:
Okay, gossemerr, read the post above. I dont feel that a lynch on firmtofu will have any non-town results.
This is not trying to lynch you. I apologise for being so wishy washy and understand why people may not like this decision.
Unvote: FirmTofu
Vote: Gossemerr
I think you would be better voting for a no lynch because voting randomly for someone like this seems a bit scummy in my opinion but i guess you just didn't notice that you could just vote no lynch I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course) and that kind of worked. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote:So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:57 Eleanthas wrote:Ok. Sorry for not responding. Saw discussion towards me at school with my phone, but really hard to write anything with it so decided to wait untill I come home. Anyway have been busy atm. Will change now. 1So what Can i say about first post. It was really just a post to tell people I'm alive. In some forums, you get replaced if you don't speak on first half of day, so I guess I followed that rule there. Had really nothing to say. Just plain stupid first post from me. 2About Nova_Terra: He seems eager to accuse anybody scum if given even a small chance. I guess he is trying to presure players to talk to get discussion going on. Doesn't seem too scummy for me, but have to keep eye on him. 3So what I think about InfernOokami7: On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead. beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him. 4And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him. 5
##Vote FirmTofu 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:
I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova. So Nova_Terra I can't wait for your answers. That said, I'm going to bed ##Big FOS:Nova_Terra
Wow, long post. I also was surprised when I seen this mafia kill. I immediately thought the same thing that mafia kills are usually motivated by people who on the right track for hunting scum. The only person to put relatively any pressure on NovaTerra was Sbrubbles. Of course this is just WIFOM situation, as the mafia could just be trying to mess with the town there is no way of knowing. But I do find it interesting the way NovaTerra replied.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas.
This reply is very defensive. He FoS'd him, but in an aggressive manner to get the whole town on board early, at least for a thought. By being aggressive and FoS an early proof of innocence, doing what is good for the town.Also by the same most people would be thinking that no mafia would be that aggressive early game. Is that what he wants us to think? Then he goes on to state Eleanthas is his most suspicious at the moment.
Then bam, change of though Sbrubbles is his suspicious now. OMGUS sorta attitude. You think i'm suspicious well that makes you suspicious kind of defensive manuever.
On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:46 Sbrubbles wrote:We have Koritora, Phagga, Elean and Inferno lurking as of this moment. On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Sure, Koritora, we could single out Inferno (or whoever you're actually referring to) for not being dead set on lynching without cause, but I don't think this is scum behavior per se. The fact that he actually has an opinion and wrote a bit on it, though, is good for singling him out if he does have a scummy attitude later on. Your post, on the other hand, doesn't add anything to the discussion and doesn't even have enough content so that we can use it to analyse you later on. So, how about putting a little more effort? Arguably, you are contributing on close to the same level as Koritora. The main thing is that you don’t really add anything except with disagreeing with other people. To you as well, what are your thoughts on cosine and Eleanthas in particular? It seems that you ignored most of the discussion relating to this.
I have the same thoughts on this as Seviro, basically, but i'll quickly go through it.
1. "Throws blame on others." Why would he do this? No one suspected Sbrubbles.
2."Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion" - At that point discussion was discussion, and overall your argument wasn't exactly strong, so it was more like disagreeing not , not understanding.
3. "Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness" - Trying to give a reason for your defensiveness if you were town
4. "Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious." - I think he was just against early FoS because he wasn't confident in his read on you without more posts. Not because he didn't want to bring further attention to himself.
Also as stated before, the vote change by Nova_Terra was weird. He didn't push the town to get off of Tofu's case until it was too late to lose majority. Does this make him innocent, just because he didn't have a final vote for a townie. Well it looks like that is the way he was trying to make it look.
Also I noticed something else that was a bit weird. Maybe just a coincidence. The connection between Phagga and Nova_Terra
1. Only 2 people to have suspicion on Sbrubbles. Phagga and Nova_Terra. I've already shown Nova's so here is Phaggas post.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 18:33 phagga wrote:Where is FirmTofu? He posted a lurker list 5 hours into the game (which is VERY early for a lurkerlist) and has not posted since then. If we would hold him up to his own standard, he is lurking very hard. You can see his filter hereI read through all the filters, and besides FirmTofu the following people are rather suspicious to me: - Eleanthas (Only posted a one liner) - koritora (not posting anything of value) - sbrubbles (only two posts in rapid succession where he basically calls out lurkers and fluff, only to disappear again). IMO, if there is a DT out there, these four would be possible check targets. What do you guys think about it? Also, if none of them adds anyhting significant in the next 6 hours, my vote will go to one of these four. Soft deadline 8 hours before is ok with me. Also, as a heads up, I generally won't be around on deadline, as it is at 3 am in my timezone. By final vote will normally be casted around 5 to 3 hours before deadline.
--> Also maybe trying to push a waste of DT check onto Sbrubbles?
2. Another agreeance on the DT check, again maybe trying to lure out a Blue or waste a check?
+ Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 02:30 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 01:21 phagga wrote:
So, if there is a DT in this game, and he does not know who he should check, I would propose that he chose someone from this list:
- Eleanthas
- koritora
- cosine
What does everyone else think? I am in agreement with those three being good suspects for a dt to check. I want them (as well as everyone else) to come and post more. The trend seems to be posting some excuse for not posting and then not posting again. I have a couple other minor suspicions right now, but nothing worth noting, until i have a bit more to work with.
3. First to defend Nova_Terra
+ Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 18:47 phagga wrote:
Seviro, while I like your analysis on a first glance, I would like to note that you start your case with some heavy WIFOM.
We have no idea what the motives of the mafia are for killing sbrubbles. We can only speculate. And if we speculate wrong, we might start hunting and lynching people for the wrong reasons, we will get WIFOM, it will create more uncertainty than facts. The only ones profiting from it will be the mafia.
There is no benefit in guessing what the mafia is up to. Also, it does not matter. Whatever the mafia wanted to achieve, we just need to make sure that we can lynch them, then we win.
However, I think your case is not only base on WIFOM, so I will go through it later when I have more time.
--> Doesn't really go into the case, just dis regards it because it has some WIFOM. When really, there was a lot of WIFOM but there were some other good points too, that he didn't post his opinion on. Adds some fluff about trying to guess what the mafia is up to is useless. Well usually finding what the mafia are up to leads to them, and it all starts making sense. Or you find a mafia, then you find what they were up to and make a connection that way. So yes eventually mafia motives are relevant.
4. Leaves Nova_terra out of his analysis because of the vote switch.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote:So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:57 Eleanthas wrote:Ok. Sorry for not responding. Saw discussion towards me at school with my phone, but really hard to write anything with it so decided to wait untill I come home. Anyway have been busy atm. Will change now. 1So what Can i say about first post. It was really just a post to tell people I'm alive. In some forums, you get replaced if you don't speak on first half of day, so I guess I followed that rule there. Had really nothing to say. Just plain stupid first post from me. 2About Nova_Terra: He seems eager to accuse anybody scum if given even a small chance. I guess he is trying to presure players to talk to get discussion going on. Doesn't seem too scummy for me, but have to keep eye on him. 3So what I think about InfernOokami7: On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead. beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him. 4And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him. 5
##Vote FirmTofu 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:
I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas
Even though the vote switch does not prove innocence or town so this seems a bit odd. Unless it was pre-planned. FirmTofu already had the majority, so Nova_Terra could switch. Phagga could then post an analysis post, to look town, while leaving out any analysis of his scum buddy Nova_Terra, without looking suspicious because of the vote switch.
These are just some things I noticed and my thoughts for now. But as of now, I'm leaning towards ##FOS: Nova Terran
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EBWOP: It seems Nova_Terra has posted a defense, didn't notice as I was in mid post making my case. Don't have time to read or respond ATM. But will come back to it later when I am available to read it all/ think of my response/thoughts about it.
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On March 14 2012 21:52 Mementoss wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 14:13 Seviro wrote:GG sbrubbles, be sure that we'll avenge your death. At first I was like why kill him, he was not really active, did not really help the town the first day and I didn't see him being a threat for anyone. Now after looking at his filter, his death give me some pointers. First, only 2 post of him contain some sort of analysis/suspicion. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate.
Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything. In both of them, he state his suspicion on the early behaviour of Nova_Terra, maybe he was on something here. So I looked up Nova_Terra's filter and noticed so good thing. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him. Then he add to not "discredit his post by calling it inexperience/carelessness" where in fact Scrubbles was in fact only giving him some sort of excuse for what he posted earlier. As Scrubbles said, being defensive over such a small thing is suspicious to me. He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot. He then tell why he thinks Scrubbles post was suspicous. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. Show nested quote +1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him. Show nested quote +2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion. He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet. See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do. Show nested quote +4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification. Show nested quote +As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. So well at this point pretty self-explanatory. Finally I will quote myself. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 08:36 Seviro wrote:Oh god i'm late to the party today, Real life can be a whore Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 06:34 Nova_Terra wrote:
Okay, gossemerr, read the post above. I dont feel that a lynch on firmtofu will have any non-town results.
This is not trying to lynch you. I apologise for being so wishy washy and understand why people may not like this decision.
Unvote: FirmTofu
Vote: Gossemerr
I think you would be better voting for a no lynch because voting randomly for someone like this seems a bit scummy in my opinion but i guess you just didn't notice that you could just vote no lynch I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course) and that kind of worked. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote:So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:57 Eleanthas wrote:Ok. Sorry for not responding. Saw discussion towards me at school with my phone, but really hard to write anything with it so decided to wait untill I come home. Anyway have been busy atm. Will change now. 1So what Can i say about first post. It was really just a post to tell people I'm alive. In some forums, you get replaced if you don't speak on first half of day, so I guess I followed that rule there. Had really nothing to say. Just plain stupid first post from me. 2About Nova_Terra: He seems eager to accuse anybody scum if given even a small chance. I guess he is trying to presure players to talk to get discussion going on. Doesn't seem too scummy for me, but have to keep eye on him. 3So what I think about InfernOokami7: On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead. beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him. 4And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him. 5
##Vote FirmTofu 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:
I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova. So Nova_Terra I can't wait for your answers. That said, I'm going to bed ##Big FOS:Nova_Terra Wow, long post. I also was surprised when I seen this mafia kill. I immediately thought the same thing that mafia kills are usually motivated by people who on the right track for hunting scum. The only person to put relatively any pressure on NovaTerra was Sbrubbles. Of course this is just WIFOM situation, as the mafia could just be trying to mess with the town there is no way of knowing. But I do find it interesting the way NovaTerra replied. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. This reply is very defensive. He FoS'd him, but in an aggressive manner to get the whole town on board early, at least for a thought. By being aggressive and FoS an early proof of innocence, doing what is good for the town.Also by the same most people would be thinking that no mafia would be that aggressive early game. Is that what he wants us to think? Then he goes on to state Eleanthas is his most suspicious at the moment. Then bam, change of though Sbrubbles is his suspicious now. OMGUS sorta attitude. You think i'm suspicious well that makes you suspicious kind of defensive manuever. Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. On March 12 2012 10:46 Sbrubbles wrote:We have Koritora, Phagga, Elean and Inferno lurking as of this moment. On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Sure, Koritora, we could single out Inferno (or whoever you're actually referring to) for not being dead set on lynching without cause, but I don't think this is scum behavior per se. The fact that he actually has an opinion and wrote a bit on it, though, is good for singling him out if he does have a scummy attitude later on. Your post, on the other hand, doesn't add anything to the discussion and doesn't even have enough content so that we can use it to analyse you later on. So, how about putting a little more effort? Arguably, you are contributing on close to the same level as Koritora. The main thing is that you don’t really add anything except with disagreeing with other people. To you as well, what are your thoughts on cosine and Eleanthas in particular? It seems that you ignored most of the discussion relating to this. I have the same thoughts on this as Seviro, basically, but i'll quickly go through it. 1. "Throws blame on others." Why would he do this? No one suspected Sbrubbles. 2."Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion" - At that point discussion was discussion, and overall your argument wasn't exactly strong, so it was more like disagreeing not , not understanding. 3. "Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness" - Trying to give a reason for your defensiveness if you were town 4. "Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious." - I think he was just against early FoS because he wasn't confident in his read on you without more posts. Not because he didn't want to bring further attention to himself. Also as stated before, the vote change by Nova_Terra was weird. He didn't push the town to get off of Tofu's case until it was too late to lose majority. Does this make him innocent, just because he didn't have a final vote for a townie. Well it looks like that is the way he was trying to make it look. Also I noticed something else that was a bit weird. Maybe just a coincidence. The connection between Phagga and Nova_Terra1. Only 2 people to have suspicion on Sbrubbles. Phagga and Nova_Terra. I've already shown Nova's so here is Phaggas post. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 18:33 phagga wrote:Where is FirmTofu? He posted a lurker list 5 hours into the game (which is VERY early for a lurkerlist) and has not posted since then. If we would hold him up to his own standard, he is lurking very hard. You can see his filter hereI read through all the filters, and besides FirmTofu the following people are rather suspicious to me: - Eleanthas (Only posted a one liner) - koritora (not posting anything of value) - sbrubbles (only two posts in rapid succession where he basically calls out lurkers and fluff, only to disappear again). IMO, if there is a DT out there, these four would be possible check targets. What do you guys think about it? Also, if none of them adds anyhting significant in the next 6 hours, my vote will go to one of these four. Soft deadline 8 hours before is ok with me. Also, as a heads up, I generally won't be around on deadline, as it is at 3 am in my timezone. By final vote will normally be casted around 5 to 3 hours before deadline. --> Also maybe trying to push a waste of DT check onto Sbrubbles? 2. Another agreeance on the DT check, again maybe trying to lure out a Blue or waste a check? + Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 02:30 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 01:21 phagga wrote:
So, if there is a DT in this game, and he does not know who he should check, I would propose that he chose someone from this list:
- Eleanthas
- koritora
- cosine
What does everyone else think? I am in agreement with those three being good suspects for a dt to check. I want them (as well as everyone else) to come and post more. The trend seems to be posting some excuse for not posting and then not posting again. I have a couple other minor suspicions right now, but nothing worth noting, until i have a bit more to work with. 3. First to defend Nova_Terra + Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 18:47 phagga wrote:
Seviro, while I like your analysis on a first glance, I would like to note that you start your case with some heavy WIFOM.
We have no idea what the motives of the mafia are for killing sbrubbles. We can only speculate. And if we speculate wrong, we might start hunting and lynching people for the wrong reasons, we will get WIFOM, it will create more uncertainty than facts. The only ones profiting from it will be the mafia.
There is no benefit in guessing what the mafia is up to. Also, it does not matter. Whatever the mafia wanted to achieve, we just need to make sure that we can lynch them, then we win.
However, I think your case is not only base on WIFOM, so I will go through it later when I have more time. --> Doesn't really go into the case, just dis regards it because it has some WIFOM. When really, there was a lot of WIFOM but there were some other good points too, that he didn't post his opinion on. Adds some fluff about trying to guess what the mafia is up to is useless. Well usually finding what the mafia are up to leads to them, and it all starts making sense. Or you find a mafia, then you find what they were up to and make a connection that way. So yes eventually mafia motives are relevant. 4. Leaves Nova_terra out of his analysis because of the vote switch. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote:So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:57 Eleanthas wrote:Ok. Sorry for not responding. Saw discussion towards me at school with my phone, but really hard to write anything with it so decided to wait untill I come home. Anyway have been busy atm. Will change now. 1So what Can i say about first post. It was really just a post to tell people I'm alive. In some forums, you get replaced if you don't speak on first half of day, so I guess I followed that rule there. Had really nothing to say. Just plain stupid first post from me. 2About Nova_Terra: He seems eager to accuse anybody scum if given even a small chance. I guess he is trying to presure players to talk to get discussion going on. Doesn't seem too scummy for me, but have to keep eye on him. 3So what I think about InfernOokami7: On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead. beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him. 4And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him. 5
##Vote FirmTofu 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:
I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas Even though the vote switch does not prove innocence or town so this seems a bit odd. Unless it was pre-planned. FirmTofu already had the majority, so Nova_Terra could switch. Phagga could then post an analysis post, to look town, while leaving out any analysis of his scum buddy Nova_Terra, without looking suspicious because of the vote switch. These are just some things I noticed and my thoughts for now. But as of now, I'm leaning towards ##FOS: Nova Terran
Hi, just wanted to clarify a couple of things before you go through my defense. after you do, please feel free to ask me any more questions, as long as they havent already been defended against, i would be glad to answer them.
The thing about why Sbrubbles' post was suspicious was not a defensive maneuver. I was attempting to state that his post was suspicious as well, not because he accused me or anything.
1. If Sbrubbles had been mafia, I do think that a likely strategy would be to try to blame other people for mistakes. Which is why i pointed out the blame thing.
2. I did find that he had seemingly not understood my posts, as he was referencing questions that i thought i had already answered completely. The fact that there was barely any discussion happening notwithstanding.
3. Of course, there is a reason for defensiveness, as being thought of as a likely mafia who could easily be lynched is a bad thing, and therefore i was showing why i defended myself.
4. Probable, but at least by my logic his post was enough against me to warrant further investigation.
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EBWOP:
Yeah, i noticed phagga supporting me and i just assumed it was because he thought i was town, as i am.
Wasnt sure if he was trying to buddy me, or just thought like me or something, but I was pleased that at least someone agreed with my status as an active townie. He did say though that he was busy and would go through his case when he had the time and did not dismiss it.
The thing about the DT check was so that the DT wouldnt be alone in deciding who to check, and would be able to secretly know what other towns though.
I still stand by my opinion of Sbrubbles having seemed suspicious. Especially so as he seemed to have ignored my posts multiple times, where he was referenced in them and where i directly asked him to share some thoughts.
I still feel that i am one of the people who is providing the most pro-town ideas and thoughts. Maybe my brain just works strangely.
You are entirely correct to question my wishy washy vote switch, which i immediately admitted, and i feel that that was the most/only really suspicious thing i did. However, i feel that it was the right move, and it was as he was town.
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Meanwhile, I would also like to draw a bit of attention to Janaan.
As i was looking through his filter, i often saw a trend. he would post something questioning somebody else, to get their reads on everything, and then not post much about his thoughts. Also, as a way of avoiding posting much about his own thoughts, he would say that nothing seems to have changed, or something of the sort.
Janaan, I would love it if you could make a post explaining your reads on people so far. too much happens by way of your posts and not enough happens that questions your posts.
Note that this is not an FOS.
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Day 2 vote. Remember you need a majority at the deadline to lynch,
Current votes:
Not voting: Nova_Terra, Eleanthas, koritora, Gossemerr, cosine, Mementoss, Janaan, Seviro, InfernOokami7, phagga
The Day deadline is at 2012-03-16 12:00:00. (That's approximately 1 day, 11:55:58 from now.)
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Sorry about not getting on to defend myself. It's really inexcusable, but I just wanted to clarify that yes, I did get caught up in some real life issues and the game slipped my mind. I need to get into the habit to clicking the subforum, but alas, what's done is done.
I'll try to make up for it in future games. Until then, peace.
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Ok, I've read through your analysis, and there is some good stuff in it. For now I am just going to point out one or two things.
On March 14 2012 14:13 Seviro wrote:
GG sbrubbles, be sure that we'll avenge your death.
At first I was like why kill him, he was not really active, did not really help the town the first day and I didn't see him being a threat for anyone.
Now after looking at his filter, his death give me some pointers.
As I said before, this is WIFOM. We really should not be basing any cases on such speculation. However, there are still some good points following.
On March 14 2012 14:13 Seviro wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. Show nested quote +1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him. Show nested quote +2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion. He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet. See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do. Show nested quote +4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification. Show nested quote +As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. So well at this point pretty self-explanatory.
These are some good finds, specially points 2 to 4. They may come from just being very eager to participate, but it is something to keep in mind.
On March 14 2012 14:13 Seviro wrote:
in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova.
It is something I considered when writing my post, which is why I kept Nova_Tera and sbrubbles in the back of my head. But as sbrubbles move showed, it is not necessarly a scum move to do.
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I am cutting down to the part that is about me.
On March 14 2012 21:52 Mementoss wrote:Also I noticed something else that was a bit weird. Maybe just a coincidence. The connection between Phagga and Nova_Terra1. Only 2 people to have suspicion on Sbrubbles. Phagga and Nova_Terra. I've already shown Nova's so here is Phaggas post. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 18:33 phagga wrote:Where is FirmTofu? He posted a lurker list 5 hours into the game (which is VERY early for a lurkerlist) and has not posted since then. If we would hold him up to his own standard, he is lurking very hard. You can see his filter hereI read through all the filters, and besides FirmTofu the following people are rather suspicious to me: - Eleanthas (Only posted a one liner) - koritora (not posting anything of value) - sbrubbles (only two posts in rapid succession where he basically calls out lurkers and fluff, only to disappear again). IMO, if there is a DT out there, these four would be possible check targets. What do you guys think about it? Also, if none of them adds anyhting significant in the next 6 hours, my vote will go to one of these four. Soft deadline 8 hours before is ok with me. Also, as a heads up, I generally won't be around on deadline, as it is at 3 am in my timezone. By final vote will normally be casted around 5 to 3 hours before deadline. --> Also maybe trying to push a waste of DT check onto Sbrubbles? 2. Another agreeance on the DT check, again maybe trying to lure out a Blue or waste a check? + Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 02:30 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 01:21 phagga wrote:
So, if there is a DT in this game, and he does not know who he should check, I would propose that he chose someone from this list:
- Eleanthas
- koritora
- cosine
What does everyone else think? I am in agreement with those three being good suspects for a dt to check. I want them (as well as everyone else) to come and post more. The trend seems to be posting some excuse for not posting and then not posting again. I have a couple other minor suspicions right now, but nothing worth noting, until i have a bit more to work with.
1.) Making DT check lists is a way to get town more active. It is even mentioned in BloodyC0bblers Post "TL Town Breakdown / Analysis".
+ Show Spoiler +Towns lately talk too many generalities, and not enough specifics. People will open day 1 with discussion of how their blues could or could not perform that game. While this isn’t a bad place to start, as specifics are never mentioned it lets the mafia easily blend in. Every player roughly knows what the players should be doing with x blue role.
However, if you instead bring in specifics:
Detective checklists
Medic lists
Make watch lists of players
These sort of topics put names down. As soon as a name hits a list discussion should ultimately start on “why is x there, why isn’t y?” “If I’m on a detective check list or watch list does that mean I’m suspected of being red?” etc…
It means people have to get personally involved and risk giving up their alignment. Does someone soft defend or hard defend someone being put on a watch list or the like is something to watch for.
The more discussion you can generate via lists like this the more likely reds will slip up. If everyone but player x is talking about these topics, player x could be a) red b) inactive.
Either or he’s not helping and voila day 1 lynch.
This is exactly the reason why I made these lists: To give people something to discuss. This game is a ghost town, we are currently 6 people participating, while 3 people have not posted at all in the last 36 hours and another one is dodging us with defense and counter questions. We need more activity. That is the main reason why I made these lists.
2.) I am not fishing for blue roles or make them waste their checks. As I stated earlier, the blues are up to do whatever they want to. I also never asked any blue to share their findings, or breadcrumb anything into the thread.
On March 14 2012 21:52 Mementoss wrote:3. First to defend Nova_Terra + Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 18:47 phagga wrote:
Seviro, while I like your analysis on a first glance, I would like to note that you start your case with some heavy WIFOM.
We have no idea what the motives of the mafia are for killing sbrubbles. We can only speculate. And if we speculate wrong, we might start hunting and lynching people for the wrong reasons, we will get WIFOM, it will create more uncertainty than facts. The only ones profiting from it will be the mafia.
There is no benefit in guessing what the mafia is up to. Also, it does not matter. Whatever the mafia wanted to achieve, we just need to make sure that we can lynch them, then we win.
However, I think your case is not only base on WIFOM, so I will go through it later when I have more time. --> Doesn't really go into the case, just dis regards it because it has some WIFOM 1. When really, there was a lot of WIFOM but there were some other good points too, that he didn't post his opinion on. Adds some fluff about trying to guess what the mafia is up to is useless. Well usually finding what the mafia are up to leads to them, and it all starts making sense. Or you find a mafia, then you find what they were up to and make a connection that way. 2So yes eventually mafia motives are relevant.
Are you serious? I get the feeling you did this on purpose.
1 I wrote in this very post you are quoting that:
- "while I like your analysis on a first glance[...]"
- "I think your case is not only base on WIFOM, so I will go through it later when I have more time."
How you can interprete this as "disregarding the post" is beyond me.
2 Finding a mafia may lead to the rest of mafia, agreed. But finding out why the mafia did a specific night kill is a waste of time. There are so many ways for mafia to make us believe one thing while they do something completely other that it is not worth speculating about why they killed a specific player or left another one alive. Also, clever mafia can mess with our heads by killing a townie that was tunneling another townie, giving town the impression that the tunneled townie was actually scum. This leads directly to a mislynch.
So, no, speculating about the motives of night kills leads to WIFOM and mislynches. Avoid it.
On March 14 2012 21:52 Mementoss wrote:4. Leaves Nova_terra out of his analysis because of the vote switch. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote:So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:57 Eleanthas wrote:Ok. Sorry for not responding. Saw discussion towards me at school with my phone, but really hard to write anything with it so decided to wait untill I come home. Anyway have been busy atm. Will change now. 1So what Can i say about first post. It was really just a post to tell people I'm alive. In some forums, you get replaced if you don't speak on first half of day, so I guess I followed that rule there. Had really nothing to say. Just plain stupid first post from me. 2About Nova_Terra: He seems eager to accuse anybody scum if given even a small chance. I guess he is trying to presure players to talk to get discussion going on. Doesn't seem too scummy for me, but have to keep eye on him. 3So what I think about InfernOokami7: On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead. beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him. 4And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him. 5
##Vote FirmTofu 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:
I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas Even though the vote switch does not prove innocence or town so this seems a bit odd. Unless it was pre-planned. FirmTofu already had the majority, so Nova_Terra could switch. Phagga could then post an analysis post, to look town, while leaving out any analysis of his scum buddy Nova_Terra, without looking suspicious because of the vote switch.
Again, the reason why I chose the ones that voted on FirmTofu is because it is almost guaranteed that there was some scum in there. So it is interesting to look at these specific player and how they acted so far, what their reasons for lynching FirmTofu were and how they generally behaved. As I wrote in another post this does not make any non-voter of FirmTofu AutoTown, but it means that I concentrate on one specific group of players for a moment and look at their behaviour.
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This lack of activity is utterly depressing.
Mafia literally doesnt even have to post as enough town is lurking as well that they can just sit back and watch townies clobber eachother because the only ones that get accused are the ones speaking.
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On March 14 2012 22:32 Nova_Terra wrote:
Meanwhile, I would also like to draw a bit of attention to Janaan.
As i was looking through his filter, i often saw a trend. he would post something questioning somebody else, to get their reads on everything, and then not post much about his thoughts. Also, as a way of avoiding posting much about his own thoughts, he would say that nothing seems to have changed, or something of the sort.
Janaan, I would love it if you could make a post explaining your reads on people so far. too much happens by way of your posts and not enough happens that questions your posts.
Note that this is not an FOS.
At the moment, there's been so much limited activity, I'm finding it hard to get decent reads off.
I'm still waiting for an answer from Koritora, but at the moment, he's my best scum read for the reasons that I presented earlier.
Phagga is looking pretty townie to me, his posts make a lot of sense to me and seem to have the right intentions behind them.
Nova_Terra, I don't really know what to think about you, to be honest. It seems like you're trying to be active and helpful, but things like your defense of your actions on day 1 being very defensive and emotionally charged don't quite sit right with me. Neutral for the moment.
Seviro actually looks a bit scummy to me, not enough to come out with any sort of case on him, but I'm keeping close watch on him. Bits like
On March 13 2012 14:57 Seviro wrote:
I guess we'll have to wait for the mafia kill to get some more information depending on who they kill.
after Day 1 ended, implying that we should simply wait until after Night 1 is over before doing anything, wasting 24 hours, doesn't look good to me. Then his accusation of Nova_Terra was full of WIFOM argument, and possibly confirmation bias.
Mementoss has a townie feel to me, he's been a fairly active poster so far, and seems to be speaking his mind on what's going on.
The other players, I don't have nearly enough posts from them to make any kind of read. The trouble is that it's quite possible for all the mafia to be in this category, but we can't know for sure until they decide to start posting.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 15 2012 03:26 Janaan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 22:32 Nova_Terra wrote:
Meanwhile, I would also like to draw a bit of attention to Janaan.
As i was looking through his filter, i often saw a trend. he would post something questioning somebody else, to get their reads on everything, and then not post much about his thoughts. Also, as a way of avoiding posting much about his own thoughts, he would say that nothing seems to have changed, or something of the sort.
Janaan, I would love it if you could make a post explaining your reads on people so far. too much happens by way of your posts and not enough happens that questions your posts.
Note that this is not an FOS. At the moment, there's been so much limited activity, I'm finding it hard to get decent reads off. I'm still waiting for an answer from Koritora, but at the moment, he's my best scum read for the reasons that I presented earlier. Phagga is looking pretty townie to me, his posts make a lot of sense to me and seem to have the right intentions behind them. Nova_Terra, I don't really know what to think about you, to be honest. It seems like you're trying to be active and helpful, but things like your defense of your actions on day 1 being very defensive and emotionally charged don't quite sit right with me. Neutral for the moment. Seviro actually looks a bit scummy to me, not enough to come out with any sort of case on him, but I'm keeping close watch on him. Bits like Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 14:57 Seviro wrote:
I guess we'll have to wait for the mafia kill to get some more information depending on who they kill. after Day 1 ended, implying that we should simply wait until after Night 1 is over before doing anything, wasting 24 hours, doesn't look good to me. Then his accusation of Nova_Terra was full of WIFOM argument, and possibly confirmation bias. Mementoss has a townie feel to me, he's been a fairly active poster so far, and seems to be speaking his mind on what's going on. The other players, I don't have nearly enough posts from them to make any kind of read. The trouble is that it's quite possible for all the mafia to be in this category, but we can't know for sure until they decide to start posting.
Okay, fair enough.
I cant help but feel like we are doomed unless people start posting.
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On March 14 2012 07:24 phagga wrote:
But how about you tell us what you think of Koritora and Cosine?
So about Koritora:
I have really mixed feelings about him. I don't really like, how he starts the game. ''No proof, don't lynch'' attitude makes him look really scummy. On other hand, why would any mafia say that on first post? Seems like careless townie to me.
Action after that seems to nothing too special, but voting made me really curious.
On March 13 2012 09:37 koritora wrote:
Well besides the fact FirmTofu has only made talk about lynching a lurker, there isn't really much else to go on. Same case can be made for InfernoOkami7. But since either hasn't spoken up lately, I can only assume they are lurking and that puts my vote up in the air for these two unless they come and contribute something meaningful. But as of the moment, I can't decide between the two and therefore going with a no lynch.
##Vote: No Lynch
''But sine either hasn't spoken up lately...'' Inferno had really posted much more. Tough his posts had been him trying to state his earlier posts. Still Inferno had come about 3 hours earlir and defended himself and told, why we should lynch FirmTofu.
It seems to me, that Koritora is trying to play it save right now. I hope that he comes and speaks up for himself. His actions look bit scummy, but really atleast I want to hear more about him, before starting really to point my finger towards him.
And Cosine:
He seems really confusing. I get mixed feeling about his past with mafia. Seems like he isn't new with mafia but just really odd how he still messes up with terms etc. Or are the terms really Team Liquid spesific?
I don't really have other problems with Cosine. I think his justificatios for lynch were fine and he has been responding to suspects and discussed fine. Now he seems to have dropped out from the discussion. Hope he shows up soon.
Now I'm trying to look over discussion going on now and post about it hopefully soon.
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Alright I have a couple things on my mind that I'm gunna post as well as some responses. So here we go:
@Phagga:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 15 2012 02:35 phagga wrote:I am cutting down to the part that is about me. Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 21:52 Mementoss wrote:Also I noticed something else that was a bit weird. Maybe just a coincidence. The connection between Phagga and Nova_Terra1. Only 2 people to have suspicion on Sbrubbles. Phagga and Nova_Terra. I've already shown Nova's so here is Phaggas post. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 18:33 phagga wrote:Where is FirmTofu? He posted a lurker list 5 hours into the game (which is VERY early for a lurkerlist) and has not posted since then. If we would hold him up to his own standard, he is lurking very hard. You can see his filter hereI read through all the filters, and besides FirmTofu the following people are rather suspicious to me: - Eleanthas (Only posted a one liner) - koritora (not posting anything of value) - sbrubbles (only two posts in rapid succession where he basically calls out lurkers and fluff, only to disappear again). IMO, if there is a DT out there, these four would be possible check targets. What do you guys think about it? Also, if none of them adds anyhting significant in the next 6 hours, my vote will go to one of these four. Soft deadline 8 hours before is ok with me. Also, as a heads up, I generally won't be around on deadline, as it is at 3 am in my timezone. By final vote will normally be casted around 5 to 3 hours before deadline. --> Also maybe trying to push a waste of DT check onto Sbrubbles? 2. Another agreeance on the DT check, again maybe trying to lure out a Blue or waste a check? + Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 02:30 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 01:21 phagga wrote:
So, if there is a DT in this game, and he does not know who he should check, I would propose that he chose someone from this list:
- Eleanthas
- koritora
- cosine
What does everyone else think? I am in agreement with those three being good suspects for a dt to check. I want them (as well as everyone else) to come and post more. The trend seems to be posting some excuse for not posting and then not posting again. I have a couple other minor suspicions right now, but nothing worth noting, until i have a bit more to work with. 1.) Making DT check lists is a way to get town more active. It is even mentioned in BloodyC0bblers Post "TL Town Breakdown / Analysis". + Show Spoiler +Towns lately talk too many generalities, and not enough specifics. People will open day 1 with discussion of how their blues could or could not perform that game. While this isn’t a bad place to start, as specifics are never mentioned it lets the mafia easily blend in. Every player roughly knows what the players should be doing with x blue role.
However, if you instead bring in specifics:
Detective checklists
Medic lists
Make watch lists of players
These sort of topics put names down. As soon as a name hits a list discussion should ultimately start on “why is x there, why isn’t y?” “If I’m on a detective check list or watch list does that mean I’m suspected of being red?” etc…
It means people have to get personally involved and risk giving up their alignment. Does someone soft defend or hard defend someone being put on a watch list or the like is something to watch for.
The more discussion you can generate via lists like this the more likely reds will slip up. If everyone but player x is talking about these topics, player x could be a) red b) inactive.
Either or he’s not helping and voila day 1 lynch. This is exactly the reason why I made these lists: To give people something to discuss. This game is a ghost town, we are currently 6 people participating, while 3 people have not posted at all in the last 36 hours and another one is dodging us with defense and counter questions. We need more activity. That is the main reason why I made these lists. 2.) I am not fishing for blue roles or make them waste their checks. As I stated earlier, the blues are up to do whatever they want to. I also never asked any blue to share their findings, or breadcrumb anything into the thread. Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 21:52 Mementoss wrote:3. First to defend Nova_Terra + Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 18:47 phagga wrote:
Seviro, while I like your analysis on a first glance, I would like to note that you start your case with some heavy WIFOM.
We have no idea what the motives of the mafia are for killing sbrubbles. We can only speculate. And if we speculate wrong, we might start hunting and lynching people for the wrong reasons, we will get WIFOM, it will create more uncertainty than facts. The only ones profiting from it will be the mafia.
There is no benefit in guessing what the mafia is up to. Also, it does not matter. Whatever the mafia wanted to achieve, we just need to make sure that we can lynch them, then we win.
However, I think your case is not only base on WIFOM, so I will go through it later when I have more time. --> Doesn't really go into the case, just dis regards it because it has some WIFOM 1. When really, there was a lot of WIFOM but there were some other good points too, that he didn't post his opinion on. Adds some fluff about trying to guess what the mafia is up to is useless. Well usually finding what the mafia are up to leads to them, and it all starts making sense. Or you find a mafia, then you find what they were up to and make a connection that way. 2So yes eventually mafia motives are relevant. Are you serious? I get the feeling you did this on purpose. 1 I wrote in this very post you are quoting that: - "while I like your analysis on a first glance[...]" - "I think your case is not only base on WIFOM, so I will go through it later when I have more time." How you can interprete this as "disregarding the post" is beyond me. 2 Finding a mafia may lead to the rest of mafia, agreed. But finding out why the mafia did a specific night kill is a waste of time. There are so many ways for mafia to make us believe one thing while they do something completely other that it is not worth speculating about why they killed a specific player or left another one alive. Also, clever mafia can mess with our heads by killing a townie that was tunneling another townie, giving town the impression that the tunneled townie was actually scum. This leads directly to a mislynch. So, no, speculating about the motives of night kills leads to WIFOM and mislynches. Avoid it. Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 21:52 Mementoss wrote:4. Leaves Nova_terra out of his analysis because of the vote switch. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote:So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:57 Eleanthas wrote:Ok. Sorry for not responding. Saw discussion towards me at school with my phone, but really hard to write anything with it so decided to wait untill I come home. Anyway have been busy atm. Will change now. 1So what Can i say about first post. It was really just a post to tell people I'm alive. In some forums, you get replaced if you don't speak on first half of day, so I guess I followed that rule there. Had really nothing to say. Just plain stupid first post from me. 2About Nova_Terra: He seems eager to accuse anybody scum if given even a small chance. I guess he is trying to presure players to talk to get discussion going on. Doesn't seem too scummy for me, but have to keep eye on him. 3So what I think about InfernOokami7: On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead. beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him. 4And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him. 5
##Vote FirmTofu 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:
I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas Even though the vote switch does not prove innocence or town so this seems a bit odd. Unless it was pre-planned. FirmTofu already had the majority, so Nova_Terra could switch. Phagga could then post an analysis post, to look town, while leaving out any analysis of his scum buddy Nova_Terra, without looking suspicious because of the vote switch. Again, the reason why I chose the ones that voted on FirmTofu is because it is almost guaranteed that there was some scum in there. So it is interesting to look at these specific player and how they acted so far, what their reasons for lynching FirmTofu were and how they generally behaved. As I wrote in another post this does not make any non-voter of FirmTofu AutoTown, but it means that I concentrate on one specific group of players for a moment and look at their behaviour.
1. The point of those quotes were to show the connection between you and Nova_Terra mainly. Reading that article, I can see how DT lists can be good for both town and mafia depending on how and when they are used. In this context, since there is a lot of lurking going on the DT list promotes activity, and right now any activity is good.
2. I was just being cautious because I don't want a noob blue to accidently slip and get picked off this early in the game.
3(1). My mistake, I mis read your post and missed the part where you said you would be back to re-iterate on the rest of the arguement.
3(2). Well that is opinion really, I think since we have 48 hours for the day it doesn't hurt to at least consider the thought of it. Though since it is WIFOM it can't really be used as the main source of evidence in any case. But your right in that it shouldn't be dwelled on and sparking discussion in other ways can lead to more solid analysis and a proper lynch.
4. "Again, the reason why I chose the ones that voted on FirmTofu is because it is almost guaranteed that there was some scum in there. So it is interesting to look at these specific player and how they acted so far, what their reasons for lynching FirmTofu were and how they generally behaved. As I wrote in another post this does not make any non-voter of FirmTofu AutoTown, but it means that I concentrate on one specific group of players for a moment and look at their behaviour."
--> Fair enough. That makes sense.
Overall I was just mentioning what it looking like in the filters between you and nova_terra. It could be 2 mafia accidently, 1 mafia hiding behind 1 town, or just 2 towns agreeing with eachother point of views. On that note, you're not in my top suspicious at the moment.
@Nova_Terra:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 20:32 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 14:13 Seviro wrote:GG sbrubbles, be sure that we'll avenge your death. At first I was like why kill him, he was not really active, did not really help the town the first day and I didn't see him being a threat for anyone. Now after looking at his filter, his death give me some pointers. First, only 2 post of him contain some sort of analysis/suspicion. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate.
Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything. In both of them, he state his suspicion on the early behaviour of Nova_Terra, maybe he was on something here. So I looked up Nova_Terra's filter and noticed so good thing. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him. Then he add to not "discredit his post by calling it inexperience/carelessness" where in fact Scrubbles was in fact only giving him some sort of excuse for what he posted earlier. As Scrubbles said, being defensive over such a small thing is suspicious to me. He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot. He then tell why he thinks Scrubbles post was suspicous. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion. He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet. 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do. 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. So well at this point pretty self-explanatory. Finally I will quote myself. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 08:36 Seviro wrote:Oh god i'm late to the party today, Real life can be a whore Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 06:34 Nova_Terra wrote:
Okay, gossemerr, read the post above. I dont feel that a lynch on firmtofu will have any non-town results.
This is not trying to lynch you. I apologise for being so wishy washy and understand why people may not like this decision.
Unvote: FirmTofu
Vote: Gossemerr
I think you would be better voting for a no lynch because voting randomly for someone like this seems a bit scummy in my opinion but i guess you just didn't notice that you could just vote no lynch I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course) and that kind of worked. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote:So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:57 Eleanthas wrote:Ok. Sorry for not responding. Saw discussion towards me at school with my phone, but really hard to write anything with it so decided to wait untill I come home. Anyway have been busy atm. Will change now. 1So what Can i say about first post. It was really just a post to tell people I'm alive. In some forums, you get replaced if you don't speak on first half of day, so I guess I followed that rule there. Had really nothing to say. Just plain stupid first post from me. 2About Nova_Terra: He seems eager to accuse anybody scum if given even a small chance. I guess he is trying to presure players to talk to get discussion going on. Doesn't seem too scummy for me, but have to keep eye on him. 3So what I think about InfernOokami7: On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead. beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him. 4And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him. 5
##Vote FirmTofu 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:
I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova. So Nova_Terra I can't wait for your answers. That said, I'm going to bed ##Big FOS:Nova_Terra I think you have been misunderstanding many of the points I’ve been making. Show nested quote + In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him. Yes, that is accurate except for the part about the town being frustrated by the town not agreeing with me. I was frustrated that people found me suspicious for the ways that I found Cosine suspicions, but then immediately used my same logic to find him suspicious. I found it hypocritical. It is true that I was mad that the town didn’t think like me, yes. Show nested quote + He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot. Meh, I didn’t consider it semi random as he made a suspicious first post as well and appeared to be lurking. See last post on the “thinking him” thing, I think you just interpreted “thinking him” wrong as I should have clarified it more. Show nested quote + Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him. Sorry, maybe shouldn’t have used the word ‘The’ in ‘The Blame’. He was putting blame on me, not tossing it from him to me. Show nested quote + He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet. Uhhh, sorry? He wanted MORE explanation about my early FOS? I thought he was accusing me for repeatedly defending myself for it. I think that I explained my early FOS well enough. Please clarify. I do not understand what you mean. Show nested quote + What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification. I still maintain that the thing with Eleanthas as a misunderstanding where you considered my ‘Im thinking’ to not being to point a finger, Whereas I meant that that would probably be my vote if nothing happened to clarify. I was not asking for anyone else to point a finger at him, etc. I find that my clarification of my FOS from beforehand was enough, and therefore I feel that he had an obligation to read the thread through fully, especially if he had just arrived. And he did ignore a few of my posts, as I directly talked to him and he didn’t respond. Show nested quote + I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course)
and that kind of worked. Well I think/thought that my logic on FirmTofu was accurate, and therefore didn’t want to vote for someone that I was relatively sure was town, especially with the lynch going so easily. I was hoping that enough people would agree with my logic that they would stop their votes, but it was too close to the lynch deadline. Show nested quote + in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova. You mean my “play” of not voting for the townie, correct? If so, I agree that that was a nice play, as the town’s general goal is to not lynch townies. Of course, Phagga only said that he was sure we could find 1-2 scum in that list, therefore leaving 1-2 out as well, so I consider that as touching on us as well. I find it sad that tofu died, I really thought that my reasoning was enough for people to cancel votes, but it was probably a bit WIFOMy. Anything else? Many of the points you made are based on WIFOM, and therefore I apologize if I was not able to respond to those in a way that cleared it up, as I have trouble defending against WIFOM cases.
Your defense hits every point. Its a decent explanation. Just the fact you showed up to defend without OMGUS, makes you less defensive. You seemed scummy to me by the look of your early filter because of the tone it set. It sounded like an aggressive, erratic, defensive scared type tone. With what seemed like OMGUS in early defense. However, your posts as of late are a lot more calm and logic driven. Which is good. Being emotional with your defense just makes you look unstable and suspicious.
However, I still find the vote change suspicious. There is a way to do it so its not suspicious and it's not the way you did it. You switched your vote at a time where it was really unlikely with current activity and different time zones that it would ever change the result. Changing your vote with the intention of not changing the result is suspicious cause it just looks like a way to cover your ass later if they flip town.
The way I think you shoulda went about this, since it was obvious that you were weary of the direction the vote was taking woulda been to defend the popular suspect, or convince people of another suspect by pushing another case analysis. For people to have time to react to this you need to leave ample time to switch especially when way over the majority is voting one way. If the vote is close or split and a couple votes can change the result, then of course a later switch with explanation can be effective.
I still have my suspicions about you, but way less than before. Right now I think you are active and sparking discussion which is good for town regardless. There are better cases to go after. Such as "the lurkers":
@Korita:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 14:06 Janaan wrote:GG FirmTofu I think we need to use this night phase to get some cases rolling. We don't have much to go on as far as cases go from Day 1, so we've got our work cut out for us. One thing I noticed from the votes that I found very interesting was Koritora's No Lynch vote. Here's one of his early posts: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Then he turns around and: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 09:37 koritora wrote:
Well besides the fact FirmTofu has only made talk about lynching a lurker, there isn't really much else to go on. Same case can be made for InfernoOkami7. But since either hasn't spoken up lately, I can only assume they are lurking and that puts my vote up in the air for these two unless they come and contribute something meaningful. But as of the moment, I can't decide between the two and therefore going with a no lynch.
##Vote: No Lynch First he says that he's suspicious of anyone who is against lynching on day 1. Then he's all of a sudden against lynching on day 1? This seems like a huge contradiction to me. Is it possible that he's trying to take away suspicion since he didn't vote for the mislynch? I'm not sure, but it's definitely possible. I think he's definitely worth a closer look.
The case by Janaan was mentioned a long long time ago. Korita so far has decided to just ignore this Korita has been heavy lurking for a long time. Waiting for other discussion to bury the Korita case or for people to just plain forget? Or just an inactive townie. He seems scummy to me.
@Infern0: The ultimate lurker in this game so far to me. Longest without a post currently. Drops in posts 4-5 posts that are either edits or just fluff/saying the same thing. Gives a quick explanation for his vote than peaces out for the whole night. Hard to really make a case for him other than he is the biggest lurker. If you want to lynch a lurker to keep an active town or cases are not coming together, I would say he is the number 1 lurker lynch.
@Cosine: Another lurker, but he actually proved that he can come back and respond with somewhat of an opinionated post to defend himself. This is the only place he gets a + in my books. Hasn't done much for the town otherwise, and the response being half decent and logical is the only reason he's less suspicious than the other two. Basically I agree with Eleanthas view on him, kinda confused to his motives, but at least he responds... sometimes.
Top scum thoughts:
1. Kori
2. Infern0
3. Cosine
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On March 15 2012 03:26 Janaan wrote:Seviro actually looks a bit scummy to me, not enough to come out with any sort of case on him, but I'm keeping close watch on him. Bits like Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 14:57 Seviro wrote:
I guess we'll have to wait for the mafia kill to get some more information depending on who they kill. after Day 1 ended, implying that we should simply wait until after Night 1 is over before doing anything, wasting 24 hours, doesn't look good to me. Then his accusation of Nova_Terra was full of WIFOM argument, and possibly confirmation bias.
Indeed that look quite suspicious but to be fair I thought that the myslynch was not very informative since there was a lot of bandwagoning and FirmTofu had post only 2 posts so that was hard to start a conversation based on his death in my opinion, whereas the night kill was most likely to be one that give us some insight.
As for the WIFOM, I didn't knoe it was a bad tihng to do (first game ever), I looked up what it meant and I agree that most of what I said was based on that, I just thought that if we try to think like a scum we could get them, I guess I was wrong.
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@Mementoss
From the way i had seen it, there was ample time left for people to switch their votes after i made mine. as most players in this game are in North America, i believe, it made sense to me that they would see my post at a time when most of them would be online, around 6pm ESTish. I attempted to post the best defense of him that i could, which was hard due to his inactivity. The reason why i did not come up with another case or present any defense for him earlier was that i had been hoping that he would come and post a defense of himself when he learned he was under fire.
I really thought that it might influence the result, and my thinking was, if he did get lynched, at least i didnt vote for a townie.
About the lurkers, you know someone has really been allowed to lurk when you cant even remember a single opinion that they had, and to me that person i remember nothing about is inferno. there is one or two other players that i dont get good vibes from, but i dont really have any non-WIFOM points so i shall have to wait with that until more posts are made. Anyway, If it does come down to those three you said, i would prefer an Inferno lynch, but a Kori lynch is a-ok with me too.
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Oh, seviro posted while i wrote that.
One thing i just dont like from that post is the kind of. Oh im new sorry i know now i did bad kind of attitude. once again, not a big deal at least to me, however.
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On March 15 2012 04:54 Mementoss wrote:I still have my suspicions about you, but way less than before. Right now I think you are active and sparking discussion which is good for town regardless. There are better cases to go after. Such as " the lurkers": @ Korita: + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 14:06 Janaan wrote:GG FirmTofu I think we need to use this night phase to get some cases rolling. We don't have much to go on as far as cases go from Day 1, so we've got our work cut out for us. One thing I noticed from the votes that I found very interesting was Koritora's No Lynch vote. Here's one of his early posts: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Then he turns around and: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 09:37 koritora wrote:
Well besides the fact FirmTofu has only made talk about lynching a lurker, there isn't really much else to go on. Same case can be made for InfernoOkami7. But since either hasn't spoken up lately, I can only assume they are lurking and that puts my vote up in the air for these two unless they come and contribute something meaningful. But as of the moment, I can't decide between the two and therefore going with a no lynch.
##Vote: No Lynch First he says that he's suspicious of anyone who is against lynching on day 1. Then he's all of a sudden against lynching on day 1? This seems like a huge contradiction to me. Is it possible that he's trying to take away suspicion since he didn't vote for the mislynch? I'm not sure, but it's definitely possible. I think he's definitely worth a closer look. The case by Janaan was mentioned a long long time ago. Korita so far has decided to just ignore this Korita has been heavy lurking for a long time. Waiting for other discussion to bury the Korita case or for people to just plain forget? Or just an inactive townie. He seems scummy to me. @ Infern0: The ultimate lurker in this game so far to me. Longest without a post currently. Drops in posts 4-5 posts that are either edits or just fluff/saying the same thing. Gives a quick explanation for his vote than peaces out for the whole night. Hard to really make a case for him other than he is the biggest lurker. If you want to lynch a lurker to keep an active town or cases are not coming together, I would say he is the number 1 lurker lynch. @ Cosine: Another lurker, but he actually proved that he can come back and respond with somewhat of an opinionated post to defend himself. This is the only place he gets a + in my books. Hasn't done much for the town otherwise, and the response being half decent and logical is the only reason he's less suspicious than the other two. Basically I agree with Eleanthas view on him, kinda confused to his motives, but at least he responds... sometimes. Top scum thoughts: 1. Kori 2. Infern0 3. Cosine
The case of the lurkers is a hard one, as we saw with FirmTofu we can't really tell if the are scum or town based on that but since they voted for the lynch where TOfu didn'T since he had real like issues that makes them a bit more suspicious I agree.
The fact is that the town is not very active since now since we are now only 10 and 3 are lurking hard. Let say 1 or 2 scum are among the active one then they can have a big impact on the town decisions. That said, I agree that there is most likely one of these three that is a scum but I can't really tell who. While I agree with your top 3 even if cosine is a bit more active than Infern0 and Kori it doesn't make him less suspicious in my eyes.
Oh and Nova to answer your question.
On March 14 2012 20:32 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote + Seviro Nova_Terra
3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do. Please clarify. I do not understand what you mean.
When you said
2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion.
You were in my eyes discrediting his post by implying that he didn't read the thread before your post and that he had no reason to come back on this topics. I was not actually saying that you said it was carelessness and inexperience from Scrubble, only the discrediting part.
As for the rest of your defense, you answered most of the point in a not overly defensive fashion as stated above so that is some good pont for you but I want to come back on a point you missed.
+ Show Spoiler + Seviro wrote
Then he add to not "discredit his post by calling it inexperience/carelessness" where in fact Scrubbles was in fact only giving him some sort of excuse for what he posted earlier. As Scrubbles said, being defensive over such a small thing is suspicious to me.
I still don't know why you took that so seriously, why defend against something that defend you.
All in all you defense was quite correct, we can go on but i'll keep you on the back of my head. I agree that we should make the lurkers participate more and taht even if you're scum, at least you are being active.
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@seviro
I think that he had not fully read the thread, or at least fully understood it, as he did not seem to understand why i was impaitently pushing on cosine, which i felt i had explained and accounted for.
Even if it is an "excuse for what i had posted earlier" i find that calling something inexperienced/carelessness to be discrediting. to me, this was not about defending myself there as it was just pointing out not to discredit anyone's posts in that manner because once a post is thought of as inexperienced or careless it doesnt carry the same weight, at least to me, as one that hasnt been called out in any way. my point was that that kind of post, at least in my mind, shouldnt have been made.
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So we have three heavy lurker in town, which have gone for almost 2 days. While there might be other scum around, I don't really want to tolerate this behaviour.
Looking through the filters of all of them, I find InfernOokami7 the most unhelpful. Also, he should have actually been in my list of people who voted for FirmTofu, but I missed that he just misformatted his vote. His filter is so empty of content that his bandwagoning makes him quite suspicious. I will therefore put my vote on him for the time being.
##Vote: InfernOokami7
I hope others will follow with voting for their suspects, so we might be able to come to an agreement on who to lynch soon.
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OKay, fair enough.
I agree with the "I'm new" kind of post, i'm one of those that think that it's not an excuse to not know, but what can I say, it was really this.
And your right about Infern0, he's just like following the groove. The only post that seemingly had some sort of opinion was
On March 13 2012 06:22 InfernOokami7 wrote:
@Nova_Terra, for someone so opinionated about the everyone else's absence from this tread, I'm surprised you have such little to say about FirmTofu's absence, only than to say that you're not confident in with the everyone trying to lynch him. Why is that?
I feel that FirmTofu's first few comments were to produce discussion from those who hadn't contributed to the game (myself included on that list). I don't find fault in that initial posting, but his absence from that point is suspicious. His post drew attention to everyone else in the thread, while he could sit back and watch everyone on that list try to make a case for themselves not to get lynched.
##Vote: FirmTofu
But again, he was just reformulating what everyone said without adding anything meaningful.
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On March 15 2012 06:52 phagga wrote:
So we have three heavy lurker in town, which have gone for almost 2 days. While there might be other scum around, I don't really want to tolerate this behaviour.
Looking through the filters of all of them, I find InfernOokami7 the most unhelpful. Also, he should have actually been in my list of people who voted for FirmTofu, but I missed that he just misformatted his vote. His filter is so empty of content that his bandwagoning makes him quite suspicious. I will therefore put my vote on him for the time being.
##Vote: InfernOokami7
I hope others will follow with voting for their suspects, so we might be able to come to an agreement on who to lynch soon.
Personnaly, I don't want to vote yet, first because I don't know at all for now and second, if I vote and for some reason I can't log on to change my vote tomorrow I could end up voting for someone that got clear of suspicion in the meantime.
For this reason I will wait at least tommorrow to post some kind of vote.
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On March 15 2012 06:52 phagga wrote:
I hope others will follow with voting for their suspects, so we might be able to come to an agreement on who to lynch soon.
I agree that we need to start getting a good idea of how people are leaning for their vote, and I totally agree with you on not tolerating lurking. I will be around to change my vote long before the actual deadline, so this is a preliminary vote. Because of my previous suspicions:
##Vote: Koritora
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Considering this is a newbie game, wouldn't mafia likely to be outspoken and "contributing"? With something to prove? "Hey don't suspect me im contributing" type of deal. I find it hard to believe that a scum would just not post for this long now - certainly with all this pressure; and especially when there are three of them, and are most likely (don't see how they wouldn't be) communicating with each other by some other means to coordinate. To that notion, the play by Janaan is concerning to me. I made a point in an eariler post about the focus he / she put on Kori's vote after the fact, which was kinda late. Now he / she counters almost every point Seviro makes in his / her latest post - seemingly to dismiss or discredit the analysis.
On March 15 2012 03:26 Janaan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 22:32 Nova_Terra wrote:
Meanwhile, I would also like to draw a bit of attention to Janaan.
As i was looking through his filter, i often saw a trend. he would post something questioning somebody else, to get their reads on everything, and then not post much about his thoughts. Also, as a way of avoiding posting much about his own thoughts, he would say that nothing seems to have changed, or something of the sort.
Janaan, I would love it if you could make a post explaining your reads on people so far. too much happens by way of your posts and not enough happens that questions your posts.
Note that this is not an FOS. At the moment, there's been so much limited activity, I'm finding it hard to get decent reads off. I'm still waiting for an answer from Koritora, but at the moment, he's my best scum read for the reasons that I presented earlier. Phagga is looking pretty townie to me, his posts make a lot of sense to me and seem to have the right intentions behind them. Nova_Terra, I don't really know what to think about you, to be honest. It seems like you're trying to be active and helpful, but things like your defense of your actions on day 1 being very defensive and emotionally charged don't quite sit right with me. Neutral for the moment. Seviro actually looks a bit scummy to me, not enough to come out with any sort of case on him, but I'm keeping close watch on him.
Moving on, there is a fishy link between Janaan, Phagga, and Nova_Terra. Nova's behavior has already been discussed so not going to bring that up here, but Phagga has not really has yet to been focused. He /she has yet to really offer any analysis except one post a few hours after the day 2 post, in which he / she focuses only on the people who voted for FirmTofu, and doing so dismisses Janaan rather easily as town. While on the issue of voting, he constantly wants to talk about the people who are lurking, but there is realy nothing to talk about considering that they are lurking.. Seems scummy to me to keep the town going in circles and wasting hours of actual analysis. Of course the lurkers could be mafia, but really nothing new here. Janaan also wants to lynch the lurkers, and easily agrees with Phagga.
My money is on Janaan right now unless something else comes up. He is saying just enough to get by, without saying anything really at all.
##Vote: Janaan
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On March 15 2012 08:27 Gossemerr wrote:Considering this is a newbie game, wouldn't mafia likely to be outspoken and "contributing"? With something to prove? "Hey don't suspect me im contributing" type of deal. I find it hard to believe that a scum would just not post for this long now - certainly with all this pressure; and especially when there are three of them, and are most likely (don't see how they wouldn't be) communicating with each other by some other means to coordinate. 1 To that notion, the play by Janaan is concerning to me. I made a point in an eariler post about the focus he / she put on Kori's vote after the fact, which was kinda late. Now he / she counters almost every point Seviro makes in his / her latest post - seemingly to dismiss or discredit the analysis. 2.Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 03:26 Janaan wrote:On March 14 2012 22:32 Nova_Terra wrote:
Meanwhile, I would also like to draw a bit of attention to Janaan.
As i was looking through his filter, i often saw a trend. he would post something questioning somebody else, to get their reads on everything, and then not post much about his thoughts. Also, as a way of avoiding posting much about his own thoughts, he would say that nothing seems to have changed, or something of the sort.
Janaan, I would love it if you could make a post explaining your reads on people so far. too much happens by way of your posts and not enough happens that questions your posts.
Note that this is not an FOS. At the moment, there's been so much limited activity, I'm finding it hard to get decent reads off. I'm still waiting for an answer from Koritora, but at the moment, he's my best scum read for the reasons that I presented earlier. Phagga is looking pretty townie to me, his posts make a lot of sense to me and seem to have the right intentions behind them. Nova_Terra, I don't really know what to think about you, to be honest. It seems like you're trying to be active and helpful, but things like your defense of your actions on day 1 being very defensive and emotionally charged don't quite sit right with me. Neutral for the moment. Seviro actually looks a bit scummy to me, not enough to come out with any sort of case on him, but I'm keeping close watch on him. Moving on, there is a fishy link between Janaan, Phagga, and Nova_Terra. Nova's behavior has already been discussed so not going to bring that up here, but Phagga has not really has yet to been focused. He /she has yet to really offer any analysis except one post a few hours after the day 2 post, in which he / she focuses only on the people who voted for FirmTofu, and doing so dismisses Janaan rather easily as town. While on the issue of voting, he constantly wants to talk about the people who are lurking, but there is realy nothing to talk about considering that they are lurking.. Seems scummy to me to keep the town going in circles and wasting hours of actual analysis. Of course the lurkers could be mafia, but really nothing new here. Janaan also wants to lynch the lurkers, and easily agrees with Phagga. My money is on Janaan right now unless something else comes up. He is saying just enough to get by, without saying anything really at all. ##Vote: Janaan
1. Just a quick note, yeah it's certainly possible that the mafia are not lurking. But it's also possible that they are. The fact is, if we never put any pressure on the lurkers by voting for them, if it IS scum just trying to hide, then they have no reason to post more than the bare minimum. With so many players lurking/not posting right now, we have to find some way to get them involved in the game.
2. I already mentioned why I didn't bring up Koritora, so refer back to that post. As far as countering all of Seviro's arguments in one fell swoop by bringing up WIFOM and Confirmation Bias, I was merely pointing out the problems that I had with his posting. Like I said, it's not enough to bring forward as a case, but logic that is filled with bad arguments is a way for scum to make a case without it being valid. It does not automatically mean the conclusions he came up with are bad, but his thought process was.
As far as a connection with myself, Phagga, and Nova_Terra, myself and Phagga are definitely both focusing in on lurking players for now, so I guess that's a "connection". I'm doing so because of point 1. I don't know why Phagga is, you'll have to ask him.
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Day 2 vote. Remember you need a majority at the deadline to lynch,
Current votes:
koritora (1): Janaan
Janaan (1): Gossemerr
InfernOokami7 (1): phagga
Not voting: Nova_Terra, Eleanthas, koritora, cosine, Mementoss, Seviro, InfernOokami7
The Day deadline is at 2012-03-16 12:00:00. (That's approximately 23:54:33 from now.)
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As for a connection between me, janaan, and phagga, it is most certainly not the case. I was, i believe, the first to call out janaan for contributing nothing while asking for a lot.
I think i mentioned the connection between myself and phagga in an earlier post.
I am not voting yet as there is still time for a well made case, but when i do, It will be on InfernOokami.
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On March 15 2012 08:27 Gossemerr wrote:
Considering this is a newbie game, wouldn't mafia likely to be outspoken and "contributing"? With something to prove? "Hey don't suspect me im contributing" type of deal. I find it hard to believe that a scum would just not post for this long now - certainly with all this pressure; and especially when there are three of them, and are most likely (don't see how they wouldn't be) communicating with each other by some other means to coordinate.
1.) In almost every mafia game I have read so far there were scum who were lurking. In my last game (Newbie IV), there were 4 scum, 2 of them were lurking almost all game, 1 vs the end.
2.) I agree that there are also active scum. I have my suspects, I read through the filters. However, I am not too sure about my reads yet, and I don't want to mislynch an active townie. Also, I don't want the lurkers to get away with their behaviour, because they won't change anything if we let them get away with it. Lynching a lurker gives us time to flesh out our cases, removes a player with anti-town behaviour and keeps as many active townies in the game as possible. We will be able to analyze vote patterns and justficiations. As a side effect, one of the other lurkers might get more active.
3.) Don't forget that the lurkers, should the fail to vote, will not be modkilled, but replaced, as it states in the Rules:
Replacements
This game uses replacements. Replacements will be made in the game until Night 3. If a player is modkilled during the designated time, then they will be replaced by a player on the replacement list, assuming one is available, if no-one is available to replace, they will just be modkilled.
We have three people on the replacement list. Now consider that all 3 lurkers get replaced, we mislynch an active townie and another one gets shot at night by scum. We will be 5 townies to 3 mafia on D3 with 3 new people on which we have zero information. This is not a situation I want to be in. There are two ways to avoid that situation: We lynch a confirmed scum (which we do not have and will not have), or we lynch a lurker (which is easy, there are 3 of them right now).
4.) I'm referencing the newbie mini IV again: Would we have started to lynch all the lurkers from D2 to D4, we would have at least lynched one scum, perhaps even two. We did not, instead lynched active townies and mafia won the game.
5.) Finally, I'm gonna make one more list (Don't you love them?):
Active Players (6):
- Gossemerr
- Mementoss
- Nova_Terra
- Seviro
- Janaan
- phagga
Somehow active but barely contributing (1):
- Eleanthas
lurking like there is no tomorrow (3):
- cosine
- koritora
- InfernOokami7
If all mafia is in the active players group, this town is as good as dead already. I doubt anyone is going to trust Eleanthas or any of the lurkers or their replacements for now, so if all 3 scum are in the active group, they can easily direct any discussion to their liking on N2/D3. So I will assume that there are about 4 to 5 townies in this group, which leaves some scum in either Eleanthas or the lurker group. Also, this ties back to point two, mislynching an active townie will hurt us much more than any lurker mislynch.
tldr; lynch lurker, better for town, less risk.
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Sorry, forgot to answer to the second part of your post:
On March 15 2012 08:27 Gossemerr wrote:
Moving on, there is a fishy link between Janaan, Phagga, and Nova_Terra. Nova's behavior has already been discussed so not going to bring that up here, but Phagga has not really has yet to been focused. He /she has yet to really offer any analysis except one post a few hours after the day 2 post, in which he / she focuses only on the people who voted for FirmTofu1, and doing so dismisses Janaan rather easily as town.2 While on the issue of voting, he constantly wants to talk about the people who are lurking, but there is realy nothing to talk about considering that they are lurking..3 Seems scummy to me to keep the town going in circles and wasting hours of actual analysis. Of course the lurkers could be mafia, but really nothing new here. Janaan also wants to lynch the lurkers, and easily agrees with Phagga.
My money is on Janaan right now unless something else comes up. He is saying just enough to get by, without saying anything really at all.4
##Vote: Janaan
I'm a "he", just for the record.
1 Right, and you analyzed everyone in the game. Oh wait, you did not, the above paragraph is the only analysis you have done so far. So, what exactly is wrong with me analyzing "only" 6 of 10 people?
2 I never said he was town. I stated that there is 1-2 scum in the group of FirmTofu voters, which means there is also 1-2 scum in the group of non-FirmTofu voters. And I can't believe you bring this up again after Nova_Terra and I both explained this very point to Mementoss.
3 If noone is talking about the lurkers, they will be forgotten and get by with it. It has happened in other games, it can happen here.
4 And you said so much more, right? Let's see... You
- call cosine suspicious with a daring argument
- have disagreed that Eleanthas looks scummy (without giving a reason)
- in the same post agreed that FirmTofu looks scummy, reasoning that you wanted to make the same case as Mementoss (but never presented one)
- call out Janaan for having a "weird timing"
- try to make up a connection between me, Janaan and Nova_Terra
And you think you have contributed more than Janaan? I mean, he is lacking content too, but you are definitely the wrong one to call him out on that.
You are desperately looking for arguments to connect the three of us when there is nothing to connect the three of us. I could, with the very arguments you used, claim that you and Eleanthas have a secret connection. Actually, that would even make sense, because you are both halflurking and barely contributing. What do you say about that?
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 15 2012 19:20 phagga wrote:Sorry, forgot to answer to the second part of your post: Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 08:27 Gossemerr wrote:
Moving on, there is a fishy link between Janaan, Phagga, and Nova_Terra. Nova's behavior has already been discussed so not going to bring that up here, but Phagga has not really has yet to been focused. He /she has yet to really offer any analysis except one post a few hours after the day 2 post, in which he / she focuses only on the people who voted for FirmTofu1, and doing so dismisses Janaan rather easily as town.2 While on the issue of voting, he constantly wants to talk about the people who are lurking, but there is realy nothing to talk about considering that they are lurking..3 Seems scummy to me to keep the town going in circles and wasting hours of actual analysis. Of course the lurkers could be mafia, but really nothing new here. Janaan also wants to lynch the lurkers, and easily agrees with Phagga.
My money is on Janaan right now unless something else comes up. He is saying just enough to get by, without saying anything really at all.4
##Vote: Janaan I'm a "he", just for the record. 1 Right, and you analyzed everyone in the game. Oh wait, you did not, the above paragraph is the only analysis you have done so far. So, what exactly is wrong with me analyzing "only" 6 of 10 people? 2 I never said he was town. I stated that there is 1-2 scum in the group of FirmTofu voters, which means there is also 1-2 scum in the group of non-FirmTofu voters. And I can't believe you bring this up again after Nova_Terra and I both explained this very point to Mementoss. 3 If noone is talking about the lurkers, they will be forgotten and get by with it. It has happened in other games, it can happen here. 4 And you said so much more, right? Let's see... You - call cosine suspicious with a daring argument- have disagreed that Eleanthas looks scummy (without giving a reason)- in the same post agreed that FirmTofu looks scummy, reasoning that you wanted to make the same case as Mementoss (but never presented one) - call out Janaan for having a "weird timing"- try to make up a connection between me, Janaan and Nova_Terra And you think you have contributed more than Janaan? I mean, he is lacking content too, but you are definitely the wrong one to call him out on that. You are desperately looking for arguments to connect the three of us when there is nothing to connect the three of us. I could, with the very arguments you used, claim that you and Eleanthas have a secret connection. Actually, that would even make sense, because you are both halflurking and barely contributing. What do you say about that?
That actually make a lot of sense to me, I thought about it overnight. If Nova is not a scum then the kill on Scrubbles had for cause to make us suspect him and possibly lynch him right away today.
Now, who've been in that aim of Nova during day 1. At first it was cosine.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 17:59 cosine wrote:
lynch is always better than no lynch except sometimes in lylo. no lynch day 1 just kicks the can to day 2 and gives the scum a free kill.
btw tofu advocating lurker lynches this early is p stupid. scum don't need to lurk this early. it's not until the discussion gets more substantive that they like to keep a low profile. even if we got lucky and hit scum, it wouldn't tell us anything. better to get the talkative scum first. Did you actually just say that no lynch is sometimes better than lynch in a situation where town loses if they dont lynch mafia? By those sometimes do you mean (hypothetically) when you are mafia? Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid. Also i disagree with the point about Show nested quote + it's not until the discussion gets more substantive that they like to keep a low profile. see sloosh's play in newbie mini mafia IV. says nothing when it doesnt matter. once the discussion gets more substantive does he appear and work the town. ##FOS: cosine
But he then retract his position after Cosine answers him
+ Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 07:16 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 06:38 cosine wrote:On March 11 2012 23:50 Nova_Terra wrote:
Where cosine at.... i want him to respond to my suspicions hold your horses buddy i live in a different timezone. i think you're reading a bit too much into my post, i'll try to clarify. when i said sometimes it's good to no lynch in lylo, i think there was some confusion. idk what terminology is used here. maybe mylo? basically i meant in a lategame situation where the town can potentially throw the game away with a mislynch, but has killed enough scum already to eat a nightkill, especially if it means town power-roles get another shot. i was talking about a very specific scenario, so maybe i shouldn't have qualified my statement at all. so let me be clear, lynch is always better than no lynch. and i didn't post because i was called out for lurking, i posted because i was about to go to bed and that's always when i check mafia threads. the day hadn't even started last time i checked the thread. i'll be here with more frequency now that the game is going. see sloosh's play in newbie mini mafia IV. says nothing when it doesnt matter. once the discussion gets more substantive does he appear and work the town. idk what point you're trying to make here. i made a very general statement, and you countered with an extremely specific example, with which i'm not familiar. hope this clarifies things. i don't know what FOS means yet, i'm going now to check all the terminology that's used in liquid mafia, but i have to say i've read your posts and i like your play, as long as you don't get tunnel vision on me. pressure is a good way to get the discussion rolling. and isn't much better to build cases on people's posts instead of the lack thereof? that was the only point i was trying to make when i called tofu's call for a lurkerlynch stupid. This clarifies things substantially. Lylo: a situation where town must lynch mafia or they lose. FoS: finger of suspicion. Basically trying to get you to post to defend yourself. The point i was trying to make about sloosh's play was that that other playstyle should not be overlooked, as it was a vexing position to be in as town. Thanks for the compliment about liking my play, if you meant/included me in that statement. feels nice as i've been trying to justify my apparently hastily made Finger of Suspicion. Dont think that flattery will change anything on my end though. I'll be watching... I agree with building cases on peoples posts rather than the alternative, but i am confused as to why you didnt say just that. To me it came across as if you were trying to make his post seem invalid in the eyes of others by calling it stupid. in the games i have read through, this played a big part in how the town functioned around some certain players. unrelated side note, I have a nasty trigonometry class tomorrow, might need your help cosine xD All jokes aside, I think cosine is relatively cleared of suspicion for the most part. Next, eleanthus (or something along the lines of that): The main thing that bugged me about his post was just the "lynching lurkers maybe" thing. was wishy-washy, he presented nothing new to us and we couldnt even be sure of what his decision was. also, it slightly irked me that he totally seemed to ignore pretty much everything that had happened so far. I dont find it extremely suspicious or anything, but i want him to make a nice big post like cosine's so we can read into his thoughts so far. Lastly, Lurkers and/or lurker lynches. In this case, if we cant get anything out of eleanthus, then he is likely to be the candidate of choice for lynching. however, in the high probability chance of him doing exactly what cosine did, and having no other major scum slips come out of anyone, we will likely be put into the situation where we have to lynch one of these three to avoid a no lynch. Can i propose that we should decide which one of these three (or eleanthus) we should lynch no less than 8 hours before the deadline? this means that there wont be any last minute scrambling that results in a no lynch, and also provides enough of a time buffer that we should all be able to get votes in on that person before the deadline. This also leaves them plenty of time to come back and post before this decision. Reasonable? okay, im out for the night, see you all in a few hours.
In between these two post, he agree Mementoss that the first few posts of Eleanthas were suspicious
+ Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 06:28 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 06:06 Mementoss wrote:On March 12 2012 04:17 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. On the other hand, cosines slip is a bit odd as well. Not defending it makes it very suspicious for sure so I would like to hear a reply from him before I commit to any FoS or further discuss what I think of him. Also for the non-posters I would like to hear their thoughts too. Although remember this is a noobie game and probably many players first, so they might not even know the game started. They should start showing up pretty soon I would say. Isnt that exactly what i said? i just want him to start posting and defend himself. I dont/didnt consider FOS a big commitment, sorry if i confused anyone and made it seem like i was gonna vote him. i still think hes totally suspicious for all the things i just said. Re-reading I missed this quote from you "i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything.". Which does show that what you were saying was just a pressure play. The original post however just seemed a bit more aggressive. Initially when I read over it, it just seemed like a newbie mistake, not understanding the acronym. As time goes on, without a response it is getting more suspicious. Can't really take that any further until we get a response. Also there is another odd post that I would like to point out. On March 11 2012 21:43 Eleanthas wrote:
Ok. Just got first chance to get on computer.
And I think that we should lynch lurker maybe. They are anyways pretty worthless if they don't speak. This is his only post. To put this in context it was about an hour and a half after NovaTerras post about cosine. He comes in posts a one liner, that completely ignores the discussion at hand, cosine case, and wants to commit to lynching a lurker, rather than making a case to lynch. Lynching a lurker is a good town decision if there is no case at the end of the day, but purposing it as the correct option at the start of the day is scummy. Mafia can avoid getting lynched just by being active and letting a townie lurker die and get 2 for 1 on day 1. Either he is just skimming the thread, or trying to take the attention off of the cosine case by just ignoring it. Also its ironic that he wants to lynch a lurker, yet he only has 2 lines above the people who didn't post anything at all. I would like to hear his opinion on the cosine case at hand. Where my head lies right now in terms of suspicion is: 1. cosine 2. Eleanthas 3. Inferookami, Sbrubbles, koritora (aka the "lurkers") Am interested in hearing responses from all the above. Day 1 is a tough day for town and only by being active and making topics of discussion will we be able to weed out the scum. I was trying to make it seem to him like i was aggressive against it in hopes that he would post quickly if lurking. Also, i picked up on the Eleanthas thing as well, but didnt really want to mention that as well. i agree with your suspicion list currently.
After this, the discussion go on another topic but in each of his post he states that he will most likely vote Eleanthas
On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:
for now, im thinking eleanthas.
On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote:
Arguably, you are contributing on close to the same level as Koritora. The main thing is that you don’t really add anything except with disagreeing with other people. To you as well, what are your thoughts on cosine and Eleanthas in particular? It seems that you ignored most of the discussion relating to this.
On March 12 2012 19:02 Nova_Terra wrote:I agree with your lynch candidates, and I think that Eleanthas should be our main target until he posts. I was also wondering about tofu, I hope he shows up and weighs in on everything. Thanks Probulous for the filters
On March 12 2012 20:14 Nova_Terra wrote:
Okay, thanks for the insights. Just continue to try to post often and discuss things just like what you wrote above. It would be better if you could recommend a course of action relating to your deductions regarding certain people. I.E.How we are likely to lynch Eleanthas if he doesnt post up.
And then the day was going near his end so he posted his "first" official vote
On March 13 2012 01:08 Nova_Terra wrote:
Eleanthas has my vote currently, until he posts up, and i think that he is the best candidate as the other 'lurkers' posted and his post was widely found suspicious.
##Vote Eleanthas
And after that he follow the bandwagon on FirmTOfu to finally randomly voting Gossemer.
If we add that to what you said about a possible connection between Eleanthas and Gossemer, we can deduce that if they are both indeed Mafia it would make sense for them to want to kill Nova. I'm starting to think heavily that the kill on Sbrubbles was a setup against Nova so that they could indirectly inflence today's vote.
okay, the last part was heavily WIFOM but I think it makes sense.
I also want to point out the only post of Eleanthas on day 2.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 15 2012 04:13 Eleanthas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 07:24 phagga wrote:
But how about you tell us what you think of Koritora and Cosine?
So about Koritora: I have really mixed feelings about him. I don't really like, how he starts the game. ''No proof, don't lynch'' attitude makes him look really scummy. On other hand, why would any mafia say that on first post? Seems like careless townie to me. Action after that seems to nothing too special, but voting made me really curious. Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 09:37 koritora wrote:
Well besides the fact FirmTofu has only made talk about lynching a lurker, there isn't really much else to go on. Same case can be made for InfernoOkami7. But since either hasn't spoken up lately, I can only assume they are lurking and that puts my vote up in the air for these two unless they come and contribute something meaningful. But as of the moment, I can't decide between the two and therefore going with a no lynch.
##Vote: No Lynch ''But sine either hasn't spoken up lately...'' Inferno had really posted much more. Tough his posts had been him trying to state his earlier posts. Still Inferno had come about 3 hours earlir and defended himself and told, why we should lynch FirmTofu. It seems to me, that Koritora is trying to play it save right now. I hope that he comes and speaks up for himself. His actions look bit scummy, but really atleast I want to hear more about him, before starting really to point my finger towards him. And Cosine: He seems really confusing. I get mixed feeling about his past with mafia. Seems like he isn't new with mafia but just really odd how he still messes up with terms etc. Or are the terms really Team Liquid spesific? I don't really have other problems with Cosine. I think his justificatios for lynch were fine and he has been responding to suspects and discussed fine. Now he seems to have dropped out from the discussion. Hope he shows up soon. Now I'm trying to look over discussion going on now and post about it hopefully soon.
Once again from him, another longish post that add nothing. He just talk about the three lurker as if they where the only suspect at the moment. He completely ignore what is going on stating Now I'm trying to look over discussion going on now and post about it hopefully soon
As of now, 10 hours later, he didn't post yet.
So now, if what phagga said is true, which is quite possible, I think a lynch on Eleanthas would be beneficial for us. I know that it is not 100% sure that he is a scum but I think his lynch will give us the informations that we need to go on. That said, in my opinion he has the behaviour of a scum so either he is a scum or a bad townie both of which are bad for the town.
##Vote: Eleanthas
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EBWOP Wow, i'm bad at math, it not 10, it's been 15 hours since Eleanthas's last post
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United States22154 Posts
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Hi guys. Reading through the thread now, should be able to post some reads this afternoon after I get my ducks in a row.
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Hi Velinath, looking forward to hear from you.
Also, what is blubbdavid doing in this thread?
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@ Phagga and Sevino
Hmm, I like the basis of this case. in a couple hours, i will look over the filters and check everything, but you may be on to something.
Phagga, i think that Gossemerr should be on your "somehow active but barely contributing" section.
One think that i noticed about Gossemerr is that he appears to be here often but rarely says much. I find this to be true because when i hadnt realized that you could vote for no lynch, and put his name down, he popped up very shortly after to say, You do realize you can vote for a no lynch.
More later.
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Day 2 vote. Remember you need a majority at the deadline to lynch,
Current votes:
Eleanthas (1): Seviro
koritora (1): Janaan
Janaan (1): Gossemerr
InfernOokami7 (1): phagga
Not voting: Nova_Terra, Eleanthas, koritora, cosine, Mementoss, InfernOokami7
The Day deadline is at 2012-03-16 12:00:00. (That's approximately 11:53:21 from now.)
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I am beginning to notice a connection as well between Eleanthas, Gossemerr, and Inferno. By connection, in some cases, I mean lack of connection. You will see what i mean. I recommend that everybody goes to google images, searches "I haz a hunch" and see the first result.
''But sine either hasn't spoken up lately...'' Inferno had really posted much more. Tough his posts had been him trying to state his earlier posts. Still Inferno had come about 3 hours earlir and defended himself and told, why we should lynch FirmTofu.
~Eleanthas on InfernOokami
The Gossemerr case
In Gossemerr's filter, He mentions Eleanthas a grand total of 1 time, In which he soft defends him by saying he fails to see why Eleanthas was more suspicious than anyone else. In gossemerr's 12 ingame posts, half of them are meaningless 1-2 lines or short answers that can barely be counted as contributing. Then, there is that post that soft defends ele, The post where he decides to lynch Firmtofu without much reasoning on his part, and the post where he says that he thinks firm is town, presents an unlikely situation, and decides to continue lynching him anyway.
Yes, a grand total of 3 posts he makes contain any real information.
In one, he throws a bit of sight to janaans "weird" posting timing, and ends it by trying to make it seem like he isnt trying to direct any attention. In another, he analyzes why we shouldnt no lynch, so a totally worthless post really. In the last, he dreams up a connection between Janaan, Phagga, and myself. Then he votes janaan with little reasoning, and this little reasoning had already been brought up by me. so just restating what i had said. Then add that to how he says phagga makes little analysis, etc.
Also, He appears to want a active lynch instead of a lurker lynch. which didnt bother me originally, but now i can see what this did, if he was a mafia with Eleanthas and InfernO. Ele and Gossemerr had been semi lurking, posting barely any content. InfernO is a hardcore lurker. I think he is trying to distract attention away from lurkers/semi lurkers by his Janaan voting post.
Also, Gossemerr never mentions infernOokami. ever.
And, as i explained in a post or two ago, Gossemerr seems to be here, a lot.
The Eleanthas case
Eleanthas mentions Gossemerr a grand total of ZERO times in his entire filter. He really never adds anything of great value to the table, and when in agreement with someone pretty just restates what they said. Not only is this suspicious within itself, but 2 of eleanthas' 8 Posts soft defend InfernO. On Inferno's first non-lurk post, Ele responds by not questioning his lurking, more just stating that Inferno is trying to lurk, which was relatively obvious, and kind of gives him the free pass by saying that he would like to hear more from Inferno in the future.
In his latest post, he defends Inferno's lurking in a relatively moderate manner. He says that he defends himself, and doesnt seem to have much of a problem with inferno having said the same thing multiple times.
Every now and then he comes in with a 1 or 2 liner to make it seem like he is adding something to the discussion. for instance,
Last 2 hours to affect to my vote. Then going to go to sleep.
or
I don't really like putting list of guys who should be checked and tell DT to check one of them. If mafia has framer, it makes it too easy to make someone appear as mafia. Which may seem partially helpful, but all it really does is help is it helps stop the spread of town information.
Or even still
I hope that people learn my name by the end of the game or only call me as Ele ^^ Meaningless fluff
continuing Atleast it says you have to have : on vote so making sure my vote counts yep
and last but not least
Ok. Just got first chance to get on computer.
And I think that we should lynch lurker maybe. They are anyways pretty worthless if they don't speak.
Yes, that is 5 of Eleanthas' 8 ingame posts that are 1-2 lines and dont really contribute. Then count the fact that 2 of his other 3 posts have defended Inferno.
Yes, 2 thirds of eleanthas' posts have been to defend or reference inferno's play as not being very suspicious. Then add that with the fact that Inferno has been lurking, and how Eleanthas' first post says that we should lynch a lurker (maybe), and how Eleanthas refuses to suspect inferno.
I am liking this connection more and more.
The InfernOokami7 Case
Lets delve into InfernO's extensive 6 ingame posts. Most of which are made to avoid being replaced, it seems.
One, he asks about his opinion in a question.
Two, he further explains his side.
Three, he adds to it.
Four, he clarifies it
Five, He clarifies a typo
SIX! He finally posts analysis! He distracts from our suspiciousness of his own absence by noting how i seem to have little to say about FirmTofu's absence. at the time, my stances were already being questioned, and therefore this could be seen as an attempt to further find me suspicious. then he uses WIFOM to further prove his side. and attempts to jump onboard the bandwagon which Ele and Gosse had jumped on as well.
All in all, InfernO isnt extremely suspicious, but when coupled with the way Ele and Gosse have been acting about him, i can see in my mind a mafia trio.
I like this hunch. A lot.
I would love to see people's thoughts on this. I worked hard ^^
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Okay, coming back to the thread today I can say there seems to be some huge developments so I gotta go through most of what I see of importance and state my opinion on them.
Cosine's Replacement:
Wow. This is nice. We lose one of the lurkers without having to waste a town lynch and are getting someone that will hopefully contribute to the discussion and finding scum. For now, I think we need to wipe the slate clean and see Velinath's opinion on the state of the thread, after he gets a good chance to go through it. Then we can make an opinion on him based on his views, and posting motives, etc.
Phagga's Lurker Post:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 15 2012 18:38 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 08:27 Gossemerr wrote:
Considering this is a newbie game, wouldn't mafia likely to be outspoken and "contributing"? With something to prove? "Hey don't suspect me im contributing" type of deal. I find it hard to believe that a scum would just not post for this long now - certainly with all this pressure; and especially when there are three of them, and are most likely (don't see how they wouldn't be) communicating with each other by some other means to coordinate. 1.) In almost every mafia game I have read so far there were scum who were lurking. In my last game (Newbie IV), there were 4 scum, 2 of them were lurking almost all game, 1 vs the end. 2.) I agree that there are also active scum. I have my suspects, I read through the filters. However, I am not too sure about my reads yet, and I don't want to mislynch an active townie. Also, I don't want the lurkers to get away with their behaviour, because they won't change anything if we let them get away with it. Lynching a lurker gives us time to flesh out our cases, removes a player with anti-town behaviour and keeps as many active townies in the game as possible. We will be able to analyze vote patterns and justficiations. As a side effect, one of the other lurkers might get more active. 3.) Don't forget that the lurkers, should the fail to vote, will not be modkilled, but replaced, as it states in the Rules: Show nested quote +Replacements
This game uses replacements. Replacements will be made in the game until Night 3. If a player is modkilled during the designated time, then they will be replaced by a player on the replacement list, assuming one is available, if no-one is available to replace, they will just be modkilled. We have three people on the replacement list. Now consider that all 3 lurkers get replaced, we mislynch an active townie and another one gets shot at night by scum. We will be 5 townies to 3 mafia on D3 with 3 new people on which we have zero information. This is not a situation I want to be in. There are two ways to avoid that situation: We lynch a confirmed scum (which we do not have and will not have), or we lynch a lurker (which is easy, there are 3 of them right now). 4.) I'm referencing the newbie mini IV again: Would we have started to lynch all the lurkers from D2 to D4, we would have at least lynched one scum, perhaps even two. We did not, instead lynched active townies and mafia won the game. 5.) Finally, I'm gonna make one more list (Don't you love them?): Active Players (6): - Gossemerr - Mementoss - Nova_Terra - Seviro - Janaan - phagga Somehow active but barely contributing (1): - Eleanthas lurking like there is no tomorrow (3): - cosine - koritora - InfernOokami7 If all mafia is in the active players group, this town is as good as dead already. I doubt anyone is going to trust Eleanthas or any of the lurkers or their replacements for now, so if all 3 scum are in the active group, they can easily direct any discussion to their liking on N2/D3. So I will assume that there are about 4 to 5 townies in this group, which leaves some scum in either Eleanthas or the lurker group. Also, this ties back to point two, mislynching an active townie will hurt us much more than any lurker mislynch.
tldr; lynch lurker, better for town, less risk.
I agree with Phagga's thoughts on the lurkers. For one, they are basically a safe lynch. You can bet that one of them is probably mafia, and even if they are not mafia, they are not helping the town find mafia.
Two, unless you have a really solid case on someone who has consistently been active, it's a risky lynch. If you are wrong and lynch town you will lose one your few solid scum-hunters, and then that night another will probably be picked off by the mafia. This could lead to a late game scenario with a couple good analysts, (1-2 possibly being mafia controlling the town thoughts) and a couple semi-posters/lurkers. In my last game a mafia lurked so hard into day 4 before being lynched, like literally, said things like I wish I could be replaced but they can't find one, then dropping votes 30 min before deadline without explanation. Damn.
Three, if a couple lurkers get replaced some of our reads are reset, and the town is in a really weird state, where they disparately need a mafia lynch, but they have all new faces to worry about.
Phagga, Janaan, Nova_Terra Connection:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 21:52 Mementoss wrote:Also I noticed something else that was a bit weird. Maybe just a coincidence. The connection between Phagga and Nova_Terra1. Only 2 people to have suspicion on Sbrubbles. Phagga and Nova_Terra. I've already shown Nova's so here is Phaggas post. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 18:33 phagga wrote:Where is FirmTofu? He posted a lurker list 5 hours into the game (which is VERY early for a lurkerlist) and has not posted since then. If we would hold him up to his own standard, he is lurking very hard. You can see his filter hereI read through all the filters, and besides FirmTofu the following people are rather suspicious to me: - Eleanthas (Only posted a one liner) - koritora (not posting anything of value) - sbrubbles (only two posts in rapid succession where he basically calls out lurkers and fluff, only to disappear again). IMO, if there is a DT out there, these four would be possible check targets. What do you guys think about it? Also, if none of them adds anyhting significant in the next 6 hours, my vote will go to one of these four. Soft deadline 8 hours before is ok with me. Also, as a heads up, I generally won't be around on deadline, as it is at 3 am in my timezone. By final vote will normally be casted around 5 to 3 hours before deadline. --> Also maybe trying to push a waste of DT check onto Sbrubbles? 2. Another agreeance on the DT check, again maybe trying to lure out a Blue or waste a check? + Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 02:30 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 01:21 phagga wrote:
So, if there is a DT in this game, and he does not know who he should check, I would propose that he chose someone from this list:
- Eleanthas
- koritora
- cosine
What does everyone else think? I am in agreement with those three being good suspects for a dt to check. I want them (as well as everyone else) to come and post more. The trend seems to be posting some excuse for not posting and then not posting again. I have a couple other minor suspicions right now, but nothing worth noting, until i have a bit more to work with. 3. First to defend Nova_Terra + Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 18:47 phagga wrote:
Seviro, while I like your analysis on a first glance, I would like to note that you start your case with some heavy WIFOM.
We have no idea what the motives of the mafia are for killing sbrubbles. We can only speculate. And if we speculate wrong, we might start hunting and lynching people for the wrong reasons, we will get WIFOM, it will create more uncertainty than facts. The only ones profiting from it will be the mafia.
There is no benefit in guessing what the mafia is up to. Also, it does not matter. Whatever the mafia wanted to achieve, we just need to make sure that we can lynch them, then we win.
However, I think your case is not only base on WIFOM, so I will go through it later when I have more time. --> Doesn't really go into the case, just dis regards it because it has some WIFOM. When really, there was a lot of WIFOM but there were some other good points too, that he didn't post his opinion on. Adds some fluff about trying to guess what the mafia is up to is useless. Well usually finding what the mafia are up to leads to them, and it all starts making sense. Or you find a mafia, then you find what they were up to and make a connection that way. So yes eventually mafia motives are relevant. 4. Leaves Nova_terra out of his analysis because of the vote switch. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote:So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:57 Eleanthas wrote:Ok. Sorry for not responding. Saw discussion towards me at school with my phone, but really hard to write anything with it so decided to wait untill I come home. Anyway have been busy atm. Will change now. 1So what Can i say about first post. It was really just a post to tell people I'm alive. In some forums, you get replaced if you don't speak on first half of day, so I guess I followed that rule there. Had really nothing to say. Just plain stupid first post from me. 2About Nova_Terra: He seems eager to accuse anybody scum if given even a small chance. I guess he is trying to presure players to talk to get discussion going on. Doesn't seem too scummy for me, but have to keep eye on him. 3So what I think about InfernOokami7: On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead. beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him. 4And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him. 5
##Vote FirmTofu 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:
I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas Even though the vote switch does not prove innocence or town so this seems a bit odd. Unless it was pre-planned. FirmTofu already had the majority, so Nova_Terra could switch. Phagga could then post an analysis post, to look town, while leaving out any analysis of his scum buddy Nova_Terra, without looking suspicious because of the vote switch. These are just some things I noticed and my thoughts for now. But as of now, I'm leaning towards ##FOS: Nova Terran
I was the one who originally brought up the Phagga/Nova_Terra connection. I still believe my evidence and case holds true. The problem is I do not have a solid case for either of them being mafia. I just have a case right now between them being connected either accidently, or just by coincidence. This is why I didn't put a FoS or preliminary vote on either of them. As stated in the Lurker section I find this too risky right now, considering the lurkish state of the town. And am thinking of the late game scenario where if we have good analysists, a good DT, once we catch one scum it should come together for us.
Second, on this. The Janaan connection that Gossemer brings up. I just don't see it, and Gossemer doesn't bring up the quotes in his post to connect the dots at all. His explanation says of the Janaan link is as follows:
On March 15 2012 08:27 Gossemerr wrote:
Moving on, there is a fishy link between Janaan, Phagga, and Nova_Terra. Nova's behavior has already been discussed so not going to bring that up here, but Phagga has not really has yet to been focused. He /she has yet to really offer any analysis except one post a few hours after the day 2 post, in which he / she focuses only on the people who voted for FirmTofu, and doing so dismisses Janaan rather easily as town. While on the issue of voting, he constantly wants to talk about the people who are lurking, but there is realy nothing to talk about considering that they are lurking.. Seems scummy to me to keep the town going in circles and wasting hours of actual analysis. Of course the lurkers could be mafia, but really nothing new here. Janaan also wants to lynch the lurkers, and easily agrees with Phagga.
The latter part being about Janaan. Basically just says he dismisses him as town. There is a difference between not having an FoS on someone and calling them town. Also this was during the early part of Night 1, its been a day and a half since then. Also talking about lurking doesn't make a connection. It's a general town idea to want to get lurkers to talk and to pressure them into talking. If no one talks mafia wins. He then brings up the point of Janaan not contributing which Phagga counters very well here:
On March 15 2012 19:20 phagga wrote:4 And you said so much more, right? Let's see... You - call cosine suspicious with a daring argument- have disagreed that Eleanthas looks scummy (without giving a reason)- in the same post agreed that FirmTofu looks scummy, reasoning that you wanted to make the same case as Mementoss (but never presented one) - call out Janaan for having a "weird timing"- try to make up a connection between me, Janaan and Nova_Terra And you think you have contributed more than Janaan? I mean, he is lacking content too, but you are definitely the wrong one to call him out on that.
Eleanthas/Gossemer/Infern0 Connection:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 16 2012 01:44 Nova_Terra wrote:I am beginning to notice a connection as well between Eleanthas, Gossemerr, and Inferno. By connection, in some cases, I mean lack of connection. You will see what i mean. I recommend that everybody goes to google images, searches "I haz a hunch" and see the first result. ''But sine either hasn't spoken up lately...'' Inferno had really posted much more. Tough his posts had been him trying to state his earlier posts. Still Inferno had come about 3 hours earlir and defended himself and told, why we should lynch FirmTofu.~Eleanthas on InfernOokami The Gossemerr caseIn Gossemerr's filter, He mentions Eleanthas a grand total of 1 time, In which he soft defends him by saying he fails to see why Eleanthas was more suspicious than anyone else. In gossemerr's 12 ingame posts, half of them are meaningless 1-2 lines or short answers that can barely be counted as contributing. Then, there is that post that soft defends ele, The post where he decides to lynch Firmtofu without much reasoning on his part, and the post where he says that he thinks firm is town, presents an unlikely situation, and decides to continue lynching him anyway. Yes, a grand total of 3 posts he makes contain any real information. In one, he throws a bit of sight to janaans "weird" posting timing, and ends it by trying to make it seem like he isnt trying to direct any attention. In another, he analyzes why we shouldnt no lynch, so a totally worthless post really. In the last, he dreams up a connection between Janaan, Phagga, and myself. Then he votes janaan with little reasoning, and this little reasoning had already been brought up by me. so just restating what i had said. Then add that to how he says phagga makes little analysis, etc. Also, He appears to want a active lynch instead of a lurker lynch. which didnt bother me originally, but now i can see what this did, if he was a mafia with Eleanthas and InfernO. Ele and Gossemerr had been semi lurking, posting barely any content. InfernO is a hardcore lurker. I think he is trying to distract attention away from lurkers/semi lurkers by his Janaan voting post. Also, Gossemerr never mentions infernOokami. ever. And, as i explained in a post or two ago, Gossemerr seems to be here, a lot. The Eleanthas caseEleanthas mentions Gossemerr a grand total of ZERO times in his entire filter. He really never adds anything of great value to the table, and when in agreement with someone pretty just restates what they said. Not only is this suspicious within itself, but 2 of eleanthas' 8 Posts soft defend InfernO. On Inferno's first non-lurk post, Ele responds by not questioning his lurking, more just stating that Inferno is trying to lurk, which was relatively obvious, and kind of gives him the free pass by saying that he would like to hear more from Inferno in the future. In his latest post, he defends Inferno's lurking in a relatively moderate manner. He says that he defends himself, and doesnt seem to have much of a problem with inferno having said the same thing multiple times. Every now and then he comes in with a 1 or 2 liner to make it seem like he is adding something to the discussion. for instance, or Show nested quote +I don't really like putting list of guys who should be checked and tell DT to check one of them. If mafia has framer, it makes it too easy to make someone appear as mafia. Which may seem partially helpful, but all it really does is help is it helps stop the spread of town information. Or even still Show nested quote +I hope that people learn my name by the end of the game or only call me as Ele ^^ Meaningless fluff continuing yep and last but not least Show nested quote +Ok. Just got first chance to get on computer.
And I think that we should lynch lurker maybe. They are anyways pretty worthless if they don't speak. Yes, that is 5 of Eleanthas' 8 ingame posts that are 1-2 lines and dont really contribute. Then count the fact that 2 of his other 3 posts have defended Inferno. Yes, 2 thirds of eleanthas' posts have been to defend or reference inferno's play as not being very suspicious. Then add that with the fact that Inferno has been lurking, and how Eleanthas' first post says that we should lynch a lurker (maybe), and how Eleanthas refuses to suspect inferno. I am liking this connection more and more. The InfernOokami7 CaseLets delve into InfernO's extensive 6 ingame posts. Most of which are made to avoid being replaced, it seems. One, he asks about his opinion in a question. Two, he further explains his side. Three, he adds to it. Four, he clarifies it Five, He clarifies a typo SIX! He finally posts analysis! He distracts from our suspiciousness of his own absence by noting how i seem to have little to say about FirmTofu's absence. at the time, my stances were already being questioned, and therefore this could be seen as an attempt to further find me suspicious. then he uses WIFOM to further prove his side. and attempts to jump onboard the bandwagon which Ele and Gosse had jumped on as well. All in all, InfernO isnt extremely suspicious, but when coupled with the way Ele and Gosse have been acting about him, i can see in my mind a mafia trio. I like this hunch. A lot. I would love to see people's thoughts on this. I worked hard ^^
Originally brought up by Phagga, then fleshed out a little more with a focus on Eleanthas, then brought together with each person's case in mind as a whole by Nova_Terra. So for this part im gunna focus on the Nova_Terra post and what his thoughts were. I went through the filters, and see what he is seeing and agree with him. I will re-iterate the main points of just the connection now:
Gossermer:
Soft defend on Ele, only time mentions Ele in all posts
On March 13 2012 04:19 Gossemerr wrote:
At the moment I don't see how Eleanthas is acting any more scummy than others. Regarding FirTofu, I was going to make the same case as Mementoss, but was just waiting for more posts by him / her. So, I will add my vote untill / if other information becomes available.
##Vote: FirmTofu
Never mentions Infern0
Eleanthas:
Never mentions Gossemer
States opinion to lynch a lurker, then soft defends Infern0 the biggest lurker in the game.
On March 11 2012 21:43 Eleanthas wrote:
Ok. Just got first chance to get on computer.
And I think that we should lynch lurker maybe. They are anyways pretty worthless if they don't speak.
On March 13 2012 01:57 Eleanthas wrote:So what I think about InfernOokami7: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead. beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him. And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him.
##Vote FirmTofu
^^Same type of format as Gossemers post, defends a fellow in the connection, then goes with FirmTofu lynch with little to no reasoning.
Infern0: Hasn’t posted anything of significance except for jumping on the FirmTofu bandwagon
On March 13 2012 06:22 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I feel that FirmTofu's first few comments were to produce discussion from those who hadn't contributed to the game (myself included on that list). I don't find fault in that initial posting, but his absence from that point is suspicious. His post drew attention to everyone else in the thread, while he could sit back and watch everyone on that list try to make a case for themselves not to get lynched.
##Vote: FirmTofu
Final Thoughts:
I basically agree with Nova_Terra's thoughts on Gossemer. He is in the semi-contributing pile. A dangerous pile where it is easy for mafia to stay. Can get away with half thoughts to be not lurking, but not lead the town closer to every finding scum. Can either push lurker lynches, or just fluff up the thread and waste time. He has many fluff posts. Wants to lynch a contributer, with very little evidence, something you could barely call a case, seems to mainly be on feeling. Does he know more than he should?
This suspicious behavior coupled with dodging some other suspicious characters, and not being a real contributer to the scum-hunting, makes me think Gossemer is a safe lynch. There is a good chance he's scum and if he does flip red, we got a solid path to get a roll on killing the whole damn mafia. So for now I'm going to throw down my preliminary vote. I will come back and re-check for further discussion to see if my mind changes, but for now.
##Vote: Gossemerr
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Okay, here's my thoughts on the most recent case against Gossemerr. Yes, there's definitely a concern here. The one thing that really jumped out at me from posts on this page was what phagga said earlier: he's attempted to throw suspicion around without ever really making a case. Here's the biggest thing, though:
On March 13 2012 04:19 Gossemerr wrote:
At the moment I don't see how Eleanthas is acting any more scummy than others. Regarding FirTofu, I was going to make the same case as Mementoss, but was just waiting for more posts by him / her. So, I will add my vote untill / if other information becomes available.
##Vote: FirmTofu
On March 13 2012 09:57 Gossemerr wrote:
Since nobody is stepping up to defend FirmTofu, minus possibly the last post by kori and a earlier change of heart by nova, I have a feeling that FirmTofu is town. That is of course unless nova and possibly kori are scum as well. I'm not changing my vote, just putting that point out there.
You should NEVER vote for someone who you think is town! This is something that came up in my last game (Newbie Mafia I, if I recall correctly). Gossemerr voted for FirmTofu, said he felt like FirmTofu was town, still voted for him. That's not good play - bad town at best, scummy at worst.
On that note, I'm voting more based on what I've written here and less on Nova_Terra's case. I believe that there are significant holes in that case, mainly focused around the idea of "if the relationship exists between these three players, then this case is accurate". I don't believe that's a reasonable way of scumhunting, mainly because you run the risk of getting very sidetracked. In addition, I feel that if anything, post analysis was better for Eleanthas in Nova's case, and I do wonder why Nova didn't vote for Elea (or InfernOokami7, given that there was already one vote on Inf if I read the thread correctly).
I'll just put this out there - I don't trust Nova_Terra. A case will be forthcoming, but I feel that Gossemerr is a relatively good lynch based on what I've presented above, not due to NT's case.
##Vote: Gossemerr
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Making that case felt really good.
I just hope i live to see the results of it
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@ Velinath,
Welcome!
I feel more that Gossemerr is related to eleanthas, and that eleanthas is related to inferno. also, the fact that Gossemerr seems to ignore Inferno as a whole leads me to believe that they are trying to not become involved with eachother, but taking it to a new extreme.
When you post your case against me, please make sure you compared it against the previous cases made against me to make sure that the same things arent in there twice. Its a pain, Thanks.
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Nova, why didn't you put your vote on one of the other two players you were suspicious of considering they both already had at least one vote on them? Since you essentially made your case on the three of them together, why was Gossemerr a more appealing vote prospect to you?
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@ Velinath
I put my vote onto Gossemerr because i find that in his posts, he is the most dangerous player out of the three. I find that his posting has some qualities that make his arguments seem plausible and valid, and shares his ideas/information (when he has any) in the most comprehensive manner out of the three, which is why i find him more dangerous.
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As an example, I will take an average post from both Ele and Gossemerr.
On March 14 2012 03:03 Eleanthas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote:
Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one:
Is it wrong that you agree with people? I really think that there was nothing new anybody could have risen up. Besides. It was pretty much case of ''If you don't speak, we lynch you.'', so decided to post my view of the game that point (wich agreed with many people), than being lynched for saying nothing.
On March 14 2012 08:36 Gossemerr wrote:There is not much action going on so it is kinda hard to read anyone. Only thing that pops out at me is Janaan talking about the days votes after its already over. Earlier he said he would keep watch on the thread, and koritora posted the no lynch vote only a few minutes after his (Janaan's) last post. Kinda scummy imo to bring this up after the fact. Either way I agree with the analysis, just weird timing. Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 14:06 Janaan wrote:GG FirmTofu I think we need to use this night phase to get some cases rolling. We don't have much to go on as far as cases go from Day 1, so we've got our work cut out for us. One thing I noticed from the votes that I found very interesting was Koritora's No Lynch vote. Here's one of his early posts: On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Then he turns around and: On March 13 2012 09:37 koritora wrote:
Well besides the fact FirmTofu has only made talk about lynching a lurker, there isn't really much else to go on. Same case can be made for InfernoOkami7. But since either hasn't spoken up lately, I can only assume they are lurking and that puts my vote up in the air for these two unless they come and contribute something meaningful. But as of the moment, I can't decide between the two and therefore going with a no lynch.
##Vote: No Lynch First he says that he's suspicious of anyone who is against lynching on day 1. Then he's all of a sudden against lynching on day 1? This seems like a huge contradiction to me. Is it possible that he's trying to take away suspicion since he didn't vote for the mislynch? I'm not sure, but it's definitely possible. I think he's definitely worth a closer look.
In this case, Ele's post is defensive and doesn't change any thoughts in my mind.
Gosse's post, on the other hand, quietly puts a little bit of question and suspicion of Janaan into my mind. Had i not read through is filter in depth, I probably wouldnt have picked up on the seeming intent to do this.
So thats why i wanted to lynch Gosse. I feel that he is playing a better, smarter game (no offense meant to either ele or infernO)
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Glad to see some more activity today!
The cases against Gossemer seem pretty good after reading them over. I'd like for him to have a chance to respond to them before the vote deadline, hopefully he'll show up.
At the moment, I want to stick with my original read on Koritora, but there's enough evidence that I would be willing to switch to Gossemer if needed. I think it's possible that Nova_Terra is right about the whole thing, but I'm not sure.
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On March 16 2012 04:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
@ Velinath
I put my vote onto Gossemerr because i find that in his posts, he is the most dangerous player out of the three. I find that his posting has some qualities that make his arguments seem plausible and valid, and shares his ideas/information (when he has any) in the most comprehensive manner out of the three, which is why i find him more dangerous.
While I agree on that, I feel like if he flips town we would lose a big contibutor of the town whereas if we lynch Eleanthas there is 2 possibilities:
1. he flips Town and we lose a semi-lurker that didn't help the town at all since the start of the game
2. He turns out to be indeed scum which then we can safely say that Gossemer is most likely a scum as well.
I feel like Eleanthas is the safest lynch for today, hence my vote. As for the third possible scum, I don't have a clue yet but if these two are indeed scum that would make it much more easier to find him based on their post.
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Seviro,
what is your feeling about my separate reasoning for voting Gossemerr? In addition, do you consider this Elea/Gosse/InfernOokami case to have merit given that it analyzes based on a specific scumteam?
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@ seviro, i think the same reasoning applies to Gosse. Take a look at his filter; he really isnt a big contributor. at all. he barely has more posts than ele, and spreads doubt regarding members of the town better.
in those 2 cases:
1. he flips town and we lose a semi lurker whos best case is just a few lines suspecting janaan without much reason to back it up
2. he turns out to be a scum which means we can assume that ele is scum as well, which likely makes inferno a scum.
I agree with either of the two as a lynch target, but there is something to be said for eliminating the more dangerous player first.
I will be on for another ~30 minutes where i can answer questions or change my vote (between those 2). Sorry for any typos, typing on an ipad.
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First of all, I work two jobs and go to school full time. I'm not going to post all day like some of you. And by the time I get to read everything it has usually been analyzed. I should have just lurked more, considering now you are going trying to build a case against me when I am trying to put pressure on others. Nova, Phagga, and Janaan seem concerning to me. If you don't agree then fine, but lynching me will be a mistake. And by the way, Nova gets mad and makes a case for anyone who says anything about him. He flips his mind every time a new argument is made, just following the flow of the thread.
@Phagga: I never said I did any more analysis / posting than some of you.. I was just pointing out what I thought.
@Vel: I said that FT was probably town after my vote upon rereading the thread just before the deadline. Considering he was a heavy lurker, there was still a possiblity that he would flip mafia.
I can't explain the ele thing, dude is lurking hard. Also this is my first game, so I can't relate to lurkers like some of you can. Finally, to defend my Janaan vote, I followed my hunch. In my mind better to vote for someone who will actually respond then vote for a lurker who will not say anything back. Also, other people have allowed Janaan to not even need to defend himself, by just blasting me.
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Meanwhile, velinath,
I am interested to know why you dont agree with my other points on why gosse is suspicious. For instance, his semi case on janaan that make him even vote his name?
Also, Please let me know What these holes in the case are. my brain seems to be working faster than my hands when i write these, and i sometimes forget a point or two that i meant to have in places, etc. It was just a lot better formulated in my mind.
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On March 16 2012 05:57 Velinath wrote:
Seviro,
what is your feeling about my separate reasoning for voting Gossemerr? In addition, do you consider this Elea/Gosse/InfernOokami case to have merit given that it analyzes based on a specific scumteam?
About Gossemerr voting for someone that he thought could be town, It was day one, and there was no strong case about anyone, we were discussing about lynching lurkers and FIrmTofu was one of the biggest at that time (in fact he was not lurking only was not able to participate due to real life but we didn't know that at this time). I mean Of course he thought that there was a posibility for Tofu to be a town but Gosse didn't want to risk a no-lynch on day one.
On March 11 2012 14:28 Gossemerr wrote:
I would have to say that if we didn't lynch, we would just end up prolonging "day 1" and not have any new information to build on afterwards.
On March 11 2012 14:38 Gossemerr wrote:
Well like you said, if the there is a good amount of evidence that those being voted on are townies; then of course a no lynch would be best. I'm guessing that we will not be certain either way.
There was no evidence that Tofu was indeed a town so I don't think Gosse voting for him even he could have been a town is that suspicious.
For your second point, the case of nova on Eleanthas/Gossemerr/InfernOokami connection I don't think it is the good approach yet. Of course if Elean or Gosse turns out to be scum that will be a good idea to find what connection they had with other people but for now we are sure of nothing.
As Mementoss stated, we could see a connection between Phagga and Nova as well
+ Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 21:52 Mementoss wrote:Also I noticed something else that was a bit weird. Maybe just a coincidence. The connection between Phagga and Nova_Terra1. Only 2 people to have suspicion on Sbrubbles. Phagga and Nova_Terra. I've already shown Nova's so here is Phaggas post. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 18:33 phagga wrote:Where is FirmTofu? He posted a lurker list 5 hours into the game (which is VERY early for a lurkerlist) and has not posted since then. If we would hold him up to his own standard, he is lurking very hard. You can see his filter hereI read through all the filters, and besides FirmTofu the following people are rather suspicious to me: - Eleanthas (Only posted a one liner) - koritora (not posting anything of value) - sbrubbles (only two posts in rapid succession where he basically calls out lurkers and fluff, only to disappear again). IMO, if there is a DT out there, these four would be possible check targets. What do you guys think about it? Also, if none of them adds anyhting significant in the next 6 hours, my vote will go to one of these four. Soft deadline 8 hours before is ok with me. Also, as a heads up, I generally won't be around on deadline, as it is at 3 am in my timezone. By final vote will normally be casted around 5 to 3 hours before deadline. --> Also maybe trying to push a waste of DT check onto Sbrubbles? 2. Another agreeance on the DT check, again maybe trying to lure out a Blue or waste a check? + Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 02:30 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 01:21 phagga wrote:
So, if there is a DT in this game, and he does not know who he should check, I would propose that he chose someone from this list:
- Eleanthas
- koritora
- cosine
What does everyone else think? I am in agreement with those three being good suspects for a dt to check. I want them (as well as everyone else) to come and post more. The trend seems to be posting some excuse for not posting and then not posting again. I have a couple other minor suspicions right now, but nothing worth noting, until i have a bit more to work with. 3. First to defend Nova_Terra + Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 18:47 phagga wrote:
Seviro, while I like your analysis on a first glance, I would like to note that you start your case with some heavy WIFOM.
We have no idea what the motives of the mafia are for killing sbrubbles. We can only speculate. And if we speculate wrong, we might start hunting and lynching people for the wrong reasons, we will get WIFOM, it will create more uncertainty than facts. The only ones profiting from it will be the mafia.
There is no benefit in guessing what the mafia is up to. Also, it does not matter. Whatever the mafia wanted to achieve, we just need to make sure that we can lynch them, then we win.
However, I think your case is not only base on WIFOM, so I will go through it later when I have more time. --> Doesn't really go into the case, just dis regards it because it has some WIFOM. When really, there was a lot of WIFOM but there were some other good points too, that he didn't post his opinion on. Adds some fluff about trying to guess what the mafia is up to is useless. Well usually finding what the mafia are up to leads to them, and it all starts making sense. Or you find a mafia, then you find what they were up to and make a connection that way. So yes eventually mafia motives are relevant. 4. Leaves Nova_terra out of his analysis because of the vote switch. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote:So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:57 Eleanthas wrote:Ok. Sorry for not responding. Saw discussion towards me at school with my phone, but really hard to write anything with it so decided to wait untill I come home. Anyway have been busy atm. Will change now. 1So what Can i say about first post. It was really just a post to tell people I'm alive. In some forums, you get replaced if you don't speak on first half of day, so I guess I followed that rule there. Had really nothing to say. Just plain stupid first post from me. 2About Nova_Terra: He seems eager to accuse anybody scum if given even a small chance. I guess he is trying to presure players to talk to get discussion going on. Doesn't seem too scummy for me, but have to keep eye on him. 3So what I think about InfernOokami7: On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead. beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him. 4And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him. 5
##Vote FirmTofu 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:
I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas Even though the vote switch does not prove innocence or town so this seems a bit odd. Unless it was pre-planned. FirmTofu already had the majority, so Nova_Terra could switch. Phagga could then post an analysis post, to look town, while leaving out any analysis of his scum buddy Nova_Terra, without looking suspicious because of the vote switch. These are just some things I noticed and my thoughts for now. But as of now, I'm leaning towards ##FOS: Nova Terran
Even if there is some sort of connection between 2 people, that doesn't mean that they are both scum. It can be :
1. 2 Town agreeing with each others and liking each other way of thinking
2. 1 scum agreeing with a townie that is on the bad track
3. 2 Scum defending each others.
All in all, I don'T think that we are at a point where connection are all that important, sure it can help for future analysis but we shouldn't let our vote be influenced only by it.
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Additionally, the evidence that Ele, Me, and Infero are related is just as bad as you say my evidence that Nova, Phagga, and Janaan are possibly related.
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Right now this is looking like a no-lynch situation to me, 4 different people are getting voted on. This would be bad for town as we can't even analyse peoples voting patterns/pushing cases based on the flip. Gossemerr's defence didn't convince me of his innocence, but the fact that he responded is better than Eleanthas' current situation. As I do not want a no-lynch I think we should try to come together as a town to get a lynch. Right now, the popular suspects seem to be Eleanthas or Gossemerr.
I am okay with either lynch. But sorta leaning towards Eleanthas since Gossemerr came back. However, we have to come to an agreement as a town, pretty quick. I hope Phagga comes back as he said he would, and no one is talking about the infern0 lynch right now, where his vote is held. Im staying on Gossemerr for now, but remember we need 6 votes for a lynch. Let's get talking and come to an agreement for the town.
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EBWOP: If the people who are lurking hard right now, Kori, Infern0, Ele don't come back that means we only have 7 active votes. Which means we need all but one person to agree (6/7) on a vote or else its a no-lynch situation. Just food for thought.
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And by the way, Nova gets mad and makes a case for anyone who says anything about him. He flips his mind every time a new argument is made, just following the flow of the thread.
On March 16 2012 06:24 Gossemerr wrote:
Additionally, the evidence that Ele, Me, and Infero are related is just as bad as you say my evidence that Nova, Phagga, and Janaan are possibly related.
....
Wow, i actually dont know what to say. I feel offended by this, the first time i've felt offended by anything on the internet in some time.
Can you trash me a bit more here?
Back up your defense. I've made a total of 2 cases in the game, one against cosine to make day 1 conversation, and one against you(which includes ele and inferno). other than that, i have pointed out suspicious things in peoples play while noting that it wasnt an accusation, and in most cases, people agree.
I got mad once, and said it. thats it. I most certainly do not make a case for anyone that said anything about me. actually, until now, i feel that you, ele, and inferno have barely pressured me, and if you did, i barely noticed it. and you guys are my one good case.
once again, back up your defense. the evidence that you, ele, and inferno are related is not bad, it easily could make logical sense. also, i believe that i was the first to call janaan's questioning out, whereas you didnt do anything to pressure ele or inferno in any way.
When i see a logical argument, i go through filters and see what makes sense. its not flipping my mind whenever a new argument is made, its genuine curiousity for the argument and if it agrees with the filters than it could work.
Lastly, This, meaning TL Mafia in general, doesnt take that much of a time committment. you dont have to be on here half as much as me to still be an effective and active player. most of the time, i just check in quickly. If you cant make a committment to like 45 minutes to 1 hour of time in 1 day, i dont see why you would join a highly interactive co-dependent game like this.
How rude.
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On March 13 2012 14:06 Janaan wrote:GG FirmTofu I think we need to use this night phase to get some cases rolling. We don't have much to go on as far as cases go from Day 1, so we've got our work cut out for us. One thing I noticed from the votes that I found very interesting was Koritora's No Lynch vote. Here's one of his early posts: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Then he turns around and: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 09:37 koritora wrote:
Well besides the fact FirmTofu has only made talk about lynching a lurker, there isn't really much else to go on. Same case can be made for InfernoOkami7. But since either hasn't spoken up lately, I can only assume they are lurking and that puts my vote up in the air for these two unless they come and contribute something meaningful. But as of the moment, I can't decide between the two and therefore going with a no lynch.
##Vote: No Lynch First he says that he's suspicious of anyone who is against lynching on day 1. Then he's all of a sudden against lynching on day 1? This seems like a huge contradiction to me. Is it possible that he's trying to take away suspicion since he didn't vote for the mislynch? I'm not sure, but it's definitely possible. I think he's definitely worth a closer look.
Then, in his vote post he seem to agree with my case on you and found it strange that Jaanan protect you like this.
While these accusation are debatable, I don't think that he had no reason to vote on Janaan whereas Eleanthas is much more a semi-lurker as he never really stated his own opinion about anything.
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Nova_Terra,
the major hole in your case is that you're fixated on the idea that Elea, Gosse, and InfernO are related. This may or may not be the case, and you're basing a lot of your analysis on that. If even one of your assumptions are wrong the other two are greatly weakened, and that's not okay for a strong case.
Seviro brings up an excellent point in his last post: we shouldn't let our vote be influenced entirely by connections, and connections cannot be read as meaning that people are scum.
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EBWOP It's seem like I missed a part of my post.
On March 16 2012 06:13 Nova_Terra wrote:
@ seviro, i think the same reasoning applies to Gosse. Take a look at his filter; he really isnt a big contributor. at all. he barely has more posts than ele, and spreads doubt regarding members of the town better.
in those 2 cases:
1. he flips town and we lose a semi lurker whos best case is just a few lines suspecting janaan without much reason to back it up
2. he turns out to be a scum which means we can assume that ele is scum as well, which likely makes inferno a scum.
I agree with either of the two as a lynch target, but there is something to be said for eliminating the more dangerous player first.
I will be on for another ~30 minutes where i can answer questions or change my vote (between those 2). Sorry for any typos, typing on an ipad.
1. he flips town and we lose a semi lurker whos best case is just a few lines suspecting janaan without much reason to back it up
Well to be fair I think he had somthing to back it up. First, he point out that Janaan bring up his suspicion on Koritora after the lynch has been done. Had he post that before the end of the day that could have saved FirmTofu. Also the fact that Janaan wrote his post suspecting Koritora right after the night post as if he wanted to lead the discussion.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 14:06 Janaan wrote:GG FirmTofu I think we need to use this night phase to get some cases rolling. We don't have much to go on as far as cases go from Day 1, so we've got our work cut out for us. One thing I noticed from the votes that I found very interesting was Koritora's No Lynch vote. Here's one of his early posts: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Then he turns around and: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 09:37 koritora wrote:
Well besides the fact FirmTofu has only made talk about lynching a lurker, there isn't really much else to go on. Same case can be made for InfernoOkami7. But since either hasn't spoken up lately, I can only assume they are lurking and that puts my vote up in the air for these two unless they come and contribute something meaningful. But as of the moment, I can't decide between the two and therefore going with a no lynch.
##Vote: No Lynch
First he says that he's suspicious of anyone who is against lynching on day 1. Then he's all of a sudden against lynching on day 1? This seems like a huge contradiction to me. Is it possible that he's trying to take away suspicion since he didn't vote for the mislynch? I'm not sure, but it's definitely possible. I think he's definitely worth a closer look.
Then, in his vote post he seem to agree with my case on you and found it strange that Jaanan protect you like this.
While these accusation are debatable, I don't think that he had no reason to vote on Janaan whereas Eleanthas is much more a semi-lurker as he never really stated his own opinion about anything.
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Okay, in an effort to make sure that there will not be a no-lynch, i am changing my vote to eleanthas, as he seems to be more popular of a lynch candidate for others and i was find with an eleanthas lynch today anyway.
##Unvote: Gossemerr
##Vote: Eleanthas
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Play nice little ones.
I am currently trying to get ZBot reset. If that doesn't work I will be doing a manual vote count today. Remember to make sure you have formatted them correctly.
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Nova, what? You are the most emotional person here. I was not trying to hurt your feelings... I meant everyone's case that we are related. And did I say I didn't spend time once or twice per day? No. I SAID, I don't post ALL day. Your last bit is just attacking me for no reason, why even question why I want to play? To have fun, of course. :D All I can say is you flip your own mind very quickly and very often; most of the time without explaining why your past argument is no longer valid. I don't see why you scrapped your ele vote, if you thought he was so suspicious before I posted yesterday.
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On March 16 2012 06:13 Nova_Terra wrote:
@ seviro, i think the same reasoning applies to Gosse. Take a look at his filter; he really isnt a big contributor. at all. he barely has more posts than ele, and spreads doubt regarding members of the town better.
in those 2 cases:
1. he flips town and we lose a semi lurker whos best case is just a few lines suspecting janaan without much reason to back it up
2. he turns out to be a scum which means we can assume that ele is scum as well, which likely makes inferno a scum.
I agree with either of the two as a lynch target, but there is something to be said for eliminating the more dangerous player first.
I will be on for another ~30 minutes where i can answer questions or change my vote (between those 2). Sorry for any typos, typing on an ipad.
1. he flips town and we lose a semi lurker whos best case is just a few lines suspecting janaan without much reason to back it up
Well to be fair I think he had somthing to back it up. First, he point out that Janaan bring up his suspicion on Koritora after the lynch has been done. Had he post that before the end of the day that could have saved FirmTofu. Also the fact that Janaan wrote his post suspecting Koritora right after the night post as if he wanted to lead the discussion.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 14:06 Janaan wrote:GG FirmTofu I think we need to use this night phase to get some cases rolling. We don't have much to go on as far as cases go from Day 1, so we've got our work cut out for us. One thing I noticed from the votes that I found very interesting was Koritora's No Lynch vote. Here's one of his early posts: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Then he turns around and: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 09:37 koritora wrote:
Well besides the fact FirmTofu has only made talk about lynching a lurker, there isn't really much else to go on. Same case can be made for InfernoOkami7. But since either hasn't spoken up lately, I can only assume they are lurking and that puts my vote up in the air for these two unless they come and contribute something meaningful. But as of the moment, I can't decide between the two and therefore going with a no lynch.
##Vote: No Lynch First he says that he's suspicious of anyone who is against lynching on day 1. Then he's all of a sudden against lynching on day 1? This seems like a huge contradiction to me. Is it possible that he's trying to take away suspicion since he didn't vote for the mislynch? I'm not sure, but it's definitely possible. I think he's definitely worth a closer look.
Then, in his vote post he seem to agree with my case on you and found it strange that Jaanan protect you like this.
While these accusation are debatable, I don't think that he had no reason to vote on Janaan whereas Eleanthas is much more a semi-lurker as he never really stated his own opinion about anything.
Yay, I think i posted it right now
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Also thanks Seviro, at least I make a little sense to someone.
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Praise Jebus it works!
Day 2 vote. Remember you need a majority at the deadline to lynch,
Current votes:
Eleanthas (2): Seviro, Nova_Terra
Gossemerr (2): Nova_Terra, Mementoss, Velinath, -Nova_Terra
koritora (1): Janaan
Janaan (1): Gossemerr
InfernOokami7 (1): phagga
Not voting: Eleanthas, koritora, InfernOokami7
The Day deadline is at 2012-03-16 12:00:00. (That's approximately 4:52:19 from now.)
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We have 5 hours. Let's reach a consensus. I'm still most willing to vote for Gossemerr given the thought of "He's probably town but I'm voting him anyway" (despite Gosse's previous post, I still maintain that if you think someone's "probably town", implying you're over 50% sure that they are town, you should not be voting for them), but I still need to go read the cases on Eleanthas (I've already given my opinion on NT's, but I need to look harder at Seviro's stuff as well as Elea's filter).
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@Vel: Please see what Seviro said already. I stated in my first posts that I didn't want a no lynch situation to prolong day 1. I don't really see how thats not valid.
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On March 16 2012 07:03 Gossemerr wrote:
@Vel: Please see what Seviro said already. I stated in my first posts that I didn't want a no lynch situation to prolong day 1. I don't really see how thats not valid.
It's invalid because you stated that you believed FT to be town. If people were okay with voting people whom they believed to be town, scum would win every game and bandwagons would be a lot easier to start (as Day 1 in this game demonstrated).
I'm going to go read Elea's stuff now.
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I did not say 100% that he was town.. also it was day 1 and i did not believe in a no lynch...
Also why tell us you are going to real Ele's stuff? Fluff..
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Alright, some thoughts (didn't take that long, 9 posts is not that much to read through):
Elea hasn't even posted today, as far as I can tell. Yesterday, he voted, left, and totally disappeared. Showed back up to talk a bit about Kori and Cosine, but I find it interesting that he is completely unwilling to commit to a stance on any player.
Coupled with his hardcore lurking I'm willing to vote Elea if we can form a consensus on lynching him. That said, I am still suspicious of Gosse for reasons listed above.
##Unvote: Gossemerr
##Vote: Eleanthas
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On March 16 2012 07:12 Gossemerr wrote:
I did not say 100% that he was town.. also it was day 1 and i did not believe in a no lynch...
Also why tell us you are going to real Ele's stuff? Fluff..
I'm sorry, I did overstate that. You said he was "probably town" which implies that you are leaning towards him being town. I told you I was going to read Elea's stuff so that you'd know why I didn't respond to you if you replied quickly.
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Don't really see how I'm defending Inferno as I was accused. ''Soft defending'' him. Hows that? Telling that he has posted 4
similar posts somehow soft defending him? FirmTofu was really more suspicous then for me like it was to many others it seems.
I can't really say much about connection between Gossemerr. Sure we haven't spoken much about each other. I guess I can't say much else to that than unwanted accident.
And cause it is really between me and Gossemerr and I don't want to miss lynch on day 2
##Vote: Gossemerr
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@ gosse
sorry, when i saw the thing about having 2 jobs and goin to school full time i immediately classified it as a " dont blame me i cant help but post only a little" kind of post.
The first part is what made me more angry. seems blatantly bashing me, in a manner that i would say seems "frustrated". Discrediting me, without so much as even backing it up, is what i found rude. It seems to me as if it was in a manner to tell someone new to reading this, like velinath for example, that i am just a mad wishy washy player whose cases cant be taken seriously as they are founded in angry response to them even mentioning me.
Yeah, at this point its relatively obvious that i am the most emotional player here.
i drop my day 1 suspicions quickly as they are founded on early lurking and suspicious first posts. They are easily clarified, by just one post, and the main idea was to try to have everyone posting.
I didnt think he was sooo suspicious, i just wanted him to post to defend himself.
at least if you're gonna make points, back them up so i can at least defend against it or reference it while i attempt to keep a cool head, instead of stating something like its fact and leaving me to speculate on why you would post something like that in a manner that seemed rude.
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Im going to sleep, hopefully will come back with a cool head and a red name on the night post.
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Yeah I'm going to have to switch to Ele too, so we have a chance at getting a successful lynch off. Still find Goss a bit suspicious, but at least he has these 2 qualities: Provided a unique case, and defended himself when accused. Also lurkers that drift into the late game are way more hurtful to town than lurkers right now, as late game town can start focusing, getting some major cases down, and getting the DT involved.
##Unvote: Gossemerr
##Vote: Eleanthas
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EBWOP next game i need a coach so i can make an intelligent post after i find something against me rude. this is even bothering me. i sound like a whiny 6 year old sometimes QQ
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EBWOP: Dat Eleanthas post timing, 27 hours after his last post. Still doesn't change my vote back as time is running low, one of our voters is going to bed and I don't want a no-lynch. Have to go now but will check back in 3 hours for further developement, doubt anything will change.
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I'm leaving soon. So unless something changes, I guess getting rid of a lurker (and one that is kinda scummy) is not really going to hurt us. Ele has added nothing to this thread in my opinion besides voting for me after a case was brought up by others.
##Unvote: Janaan
##Vote: Eleanthas
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I find it interesting how Eleanthas just now came into the thread and, even with accusations and people voting against him, he still just posted enough to get his vote out for the day and left immediately. No defense, no nothing. It makes him look scummier to me. Since it doesn't look like a Koritora lynch will happen today, Eleanthas looks just as scummy right now, and as a general rule I dislike no lynches when there's a decent vote candidate:
##Unvote: Koritora
##Vote: Eleanthas
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oh my, what did I do? Looks like I got more for that Gossemerr case that I bargained for...
I just want to make one thing clear: The reason I wrote about a connection between Eleanthas and gossemerr was because I wanted to get gossemerr to talk more. Looks like that worked. Gossemerr could be scum, but I feel way to unsure about that to actually vote for him.
Nevertheless, it's nice to see that several people jumped on the case and it made the whole town more active. Good thing to happen.
Nova_Terra: No offense, but I think you are reading to much into the connection between Gossemerr, Eleanthas and inferno. That case won't hold with those arguments, I'm afraid.
Gossemerr:
On March 16 2012 06:18 Gossemerr wrote:
@Phagga: I never said I did any more analysis / posting than some of you.. I was just pointing out what I thought.
The point is: you can't criticize someone for not doing stuff when you don't do that stuff as well.
Uh, that sounds stupid. Let me try it like this:
If you go and criticize me (or anyone) for lack of analysis/content, then everyone will expect that you have delivered the amount of analysis/content that you say others lack. That's why I brought it up. I still think it would be nice to get some more analysis from you, but at least it seems you start to step your game.
As for the lynch targets: looks like the InfernOokami7 lynch is not happening. However, I'm ok with an Eleanthas lynch. He is still not producing anything relevant and lurking pretty hard. Let's just hope that the replacements for our other lurkers will be more active.
##Unvote: InfernOokami7
##Vote: Eleanthas
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Two hours to go till deadline. Please remember to vote correctly.
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Night 2![[image loading]](http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7143/6400599633_5a58dd7b87_z.jpg)
Sometimes life decides to jump the shark and the only way to survive is laugh at death.
Eleanthas felt his mind slipping.
Aliens in a bunker, it was something out of the ancient films. No-way it could be true, but the deaths kept happening. The Captain, Probulous now the crew, someone, or something was shedding blood. I won't be next, no, I'll prove to the men who I am.
Slowly and with deliberate gravitas Eleanthas rose from his darkened corner and stepped forward into the circle of men.
"I am Eleanthas, and I have fought with you for 15 years. I have seen my brothers die at the hands of these invaders. I have seen my brethren slay each other over false suspicions. I will see it no more. I am, who I am and you will not kill me today."
A shadowy figure stepped towards him
"Only a shapeshifter would pull this stunt. Real men know they are men and don't have to convince themselves. KILL HIM!"
Pleading for sanity Eleanthas dropped to his knees.
"Don't you see, I am innocent. How can I prove my innocence to you?"
"Die."
A rusted blade swings down from the shadows. Viscous Green blood sprays the walls as Eleanthas' head rolls down the passage.
Eleanthas the Vanilla Townie has been decapitated
It is now night 2! Please send all night actions to both myself and GMarshal. The deadline is 12:00 KST.
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Looking back on my posting fom yesterday, there is something to be said for not posting when you're tired.
That being said, i wish ele had come and defended himself in a longer post than what he attempted to do.
Hosts, is anyone being modkilled?
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Okay two peeps did not vote - either going to be replaced or killed. I'm guessing that if they were scum they would be participating, well at least vote. I have to say that I'm pretty confident that both are not mafia - so that means probably 2 people whom are actually contributing to the discussion are indeed mafia. Kinda adding to that, so far we have mislynched two town that were lurkers. While it is not that big of deal since they didn't help much, our numbers are dropping fast.
I am still holding onto my Nova, Janaan, Phagga suspicions. Phagga in particular basically just attacks me after my post comes out.
On March 15 2012 19:20 phagga wrote:I'm a "he", just for the record. 1 Right, and you analyzed everyone in the game. Oh wait, you did not, the above paragraph is the only analysis you have done so far. So, what exactly is wrong with me analyzing "only" 6 of 10 people? 2 I never said he was town. I stated that there is 1-2 scum in the group of FirmTofu voters, which means there is also 1-2 scum in the group of non-FirmTofu voters. And I can't believe you bring this up again after Nova_Terra and I both explained this very point to Mementoss. 3 If noone is talking about the lurkers, they will be forgotten and get by with it. It has happened in other games, it can happen here. 4 And you said so much more, right? Let's see... You - call cosine suspicious with a daring argument- have disagreed that Eleanthas looks scummy (without giving a reason)- in the same post agreed that FirmTofu looks scummy, reasoning that you wanted to make the same case as Mementoss (but never presented one) - call out Janaan for having a "weird timing"- try to make up a connection between me, Janaan and Nova_Terra And you think you have contributed more than Janaan? I mean, he is lacking content too, but you are definitely the wrong one to call him out on that. You are desperately looking for arguments to connect the three of us when there is nothing to connect the three of us. I could, with the very arguments you used, claim that you and Eleanthas have a secret connection. Actually, that would even make sense, because you are both halflurking and barely contributing. What do you say about that?
Too me this is really not a defence, just attacks me for my lack of analysis. I never said I was doing more, I never said I was not a hypocrite. But the fact that I didn't really contribute a ton of analysis untill that post does not invalidate my post.
Also reading back through the thread in sequence just now I found these two quotes by Phagga to be concerning:
On March 14 2012 18:47 phagga wrote:
We have no idea what the motives of the mafia are for killing sbrubbles. We can only speculate. And if we speculate wrong, we might start hunting and lynching people for the wrong reasons, we will get WIFOM, it will create more uncertainty than facts. The only ones profiting from it will be the mafia.
There is no benefit in guessing what the mafia is up to. Also, it does not matter. Whatever the mafia wanted to achieve, we just need to make sure that we can lynch them, then we win.
On March 15 2012 02:35 phagga wrote:
Finding a mafia may lead to the rest of mafia, agreed. But finding out why the mafia did a specific night kill is a waste of time. There are so many ways for mafia to make us believe one thing while they do something completely other that it is not worth speculating about why they killed a specific player or left another one alive. Also, clever mafia can mess with our heads by killing a townie that was tunneling another townie, giving town the impression that the tunneled townie was actually scum. This leads directly to a mislynch.
So, no, speculating about the motives of night kills leads to WIFOM and mislynches. Avoid it.
How in the world could understanding how the mafia are thinking be bad for us town? If we can accurately figure out why the mafia killed whom they did we can link it back to the individuals involved. Its a integral part of the analysis. If we just ignored all of the night phases and focused only on the outcomes of lynches that would be terrible. In fact that would be what the scum would want from us - to effectively lose half of the game's information. To not worry about their motives and to fight about the mis-lynches. I agree that the staight up kills can be misleading, but thats where the ANALYSIS comes in. Anyways, I still think there needs to be more discussion on Janaan, Phagga, and Nova - especially Phagga and Janaan.
Also, I guess my suspicion that Ele wasn't any more scummy than others was right..
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Ok, I just want to make this perfectly clear: When I "hinted" at a connection between Eleanthas and Gossemerr, I made it to provoke a reaction of the two, not because i seriously believed there was one.
About Nova_Terra and me:
Yes, I do agree with some stuff Nova_Terra wrote, but not with all. No, I do not trust him. I don't trust anyone in this game so far.
Yes, we can find connections between people and link mafias together, but for that to work we first need to find mafia, so this should be our top priority. And no, I will not blindly lynch someone only because he agreed at several points with scum. These possible links we have in the thread so far are rather weak. It is possible they exist, but it is also very possible they don't. I also never intended to push a lynch on Gossemerr today, I really wanted to get rid of a lurker (which we did with Eleanthas, although he was not one of the heavy ones).
I feel Nova_Terra is an extremely eager Town who jumps to conclusion a little bit too fast. I currently doubt that he is scum, solely because I think scum would not behave that offensively. On the other side, it could be on purpose, and you see I'm going all WIFOM now, so I'll drop. I don't trust him, but some things he said made sense for me.
Gossemerr:
On March 16 2012 16:03 Gossemerr wrote:
Okay two peeps did not vote - either going to be replaced or killed. I'm guessing that if they were scum they would be participating, well at least vote. I have to say that I'm pretty confident that both are not mafia - so that means probably 2 people whom are actually contributing to the discussion are indeed mafia. Kinda adding to that, so far we have mislynched two town that were lurkers. While it is not that big of deal since they didn't help much, our numbers are dropping fast.
This is wrong. Two people stopped playing completely, either because they lost interest or something in real life keeps them busy. This does NOT tell us anything about their alignement. They could be mafia, vanilla townies or blues, who knows. (Or are you seriously implying that after (for example) someone from my family had a heavy accident, I would be more inclined to play on in this game if I was mafia than if I was town? In such a situation, this game here is irrelevant, no matter what my alignement is).
On March 16 2012 16:03 Gossemerr wrote:
Too me this is really not a defence, just attacks me for my lack of analysis. I never said I was doing more, I never said I was not a hypocrite. But the fact that I didn't really contribute a ton of analysis untill that post does not invalidate my post.
you are in a game where people try to find out the motives of others by reading, analyzing and judging their posts. What do you think is going to happen when you are a hypocrite in such a game? Yes, you get a scummy label really fast.
Also, if you are not contributing, people will assume you try to hide something, which agains means you get a scummy label.
On March 16 2012 16:03 Gossemerr wrote:
How in the world could understanding how the mafia are thinking be bad for us town? If we can accurately figure out why the mafia killed whom they did we can link it back to the individuals involved. Its a integral part of the analysis. If we just ignored all of the night phases and focused only on the outcomes of lynches that would be terrible. In fact that would be what the scum would want from us - to effectively lose half of the game's information. To not worry about their motives and to fight about the mis-lynches. I agree that the staight up kills can be misleading, but thats where the ANALYSIS comes in.
I am going to do this just once, and I hope we can burry this afterwards.
So what are the possible reasons sbrubbles was killed?
- Nova_Terra is scum, he felt the heat and mafia decided to get rid of sbrubbles
- Nova_Terra is town, mafia wants to mess with us and decided to get rid of one of Nova_Terras attackers, sbrubbles
- Sbrubbles was half-lurking, and since mafia knows he is town, they fear he might be a blue.
- Or it was something completely different that I can not think up right now.
So we have now 3 options with completely different motivations. I have my opinions about this too, and I think it was the third option (because scum normally tries to kill of blues as fast as possible). But we can not know for sure. If we want to know more, we lynch Nova_Terra next, but if he is town, that was a blatant mislynch and puts us in a far worse position. And even then, we still will not know if they killed bubbles because he was blue or because they wanted to mess with us. And I haven't even started what it means if Nova_Terra would get killed tonight by mafia.
Also, how are you gonna analyze the motives of scum if you do not even know who they are? You do not know for sure who is scum, so you can only try to analyze posts from people you think are scum, and if they are not, you'll just produce bad results. Perhaps if we lynched a scum, you can go back through is filter and look for hints for the nightkills, but until then, it's all WIFOM.
This is so much WIFOM that it is not worth wasting time on it. And as you are already quite busy (as you wrote earlier), it would be better if you concentrated on finding scum through analysis of posts.
On March 16 2012 16:03 Gossemerr wrote:
Also, I guess my suspicion that Ele wasn't any more scummy than others was right..
But you voted him anyway, so what?
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Ugh, I went to sleep and woke up to this. Case on Nova_Terra will be forthcoming in the next few hours.
Gosse:
Your last post concerns me; we can never afford to completely rule out players as you suggest. I don't think that lurking to the point of being modkilled indicates either scum or town. Case in point: one of the scum players in NMM I got modkilled for inactivity, but we had Elea, who hadn't posted in 27 hours before coming in to vote for you, flip town. Lurking as hard as these two are probably doesn't indicate anything about their alignment.
phagga:
On March 16 2012 20:27 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 16:03 Gossemerr wrote:
Also, I guess my suspicion that Ele wasn't any more scummy than others was right.. But you voted him anyway, so what?
That's the second time Gosse's voted a bandwagon that he doesn't really believe in.
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United States22154 Posts
On March 16 2012 15:21 Nova_Terra wrote:
Looking back on my posting fom yesterday, there is something to be said for not posting when you're tired.
That being said, i wish ele had come and defended himself in a longer post than what he attempted to do.
Hosts, is anyone being modkilled?
People who did not vote will be replaced, if no replacement is found before the end of the next cycle they will be modkilled
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Lol, wait, so if both of the lurkers that might be modkilled are town and they end up modkilled, we lose right?
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EBWOP: Im also confidant that i wont die tonight as i am relatively suspicious, i see. Cant tell whether this is good/bad for the town because currently i've been playing terribly and kinda feel like the mislynch on ele was mostly my fault.
I hope i can come up with something useful.
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On March 17 2012 00:51 Nova_Terra wrote:
Lol, wait, so if both of the lurkers that might be modkilled are town and they end up modkilled, we lose right?
>_> Still 2 people left on the replacement list so hopefully they're up for it. Lurkers ruining the game/ killing the town QQ.
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Thats just ridiculous.
Better hope we get those replacements.
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On March 17 2012 00:51 Nova_Terra wrote:
Lol, wait, so if both of the lurkers that might be modkilled are town and they end up modkilled, we lose right?
We are at 6-3. If both were town, we're at 4-3 before the nightkill. Now it depends on the blue roles. If there is a medic or a Veteran (preventing a nightkill) or a vigilante (kill a scum), then the game will probably go on as long as we are able to stay one person ahead.
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Yeah true. totally forgot about blues.
I hope we have a vigi who identified a scum. would be so helpful for info at this point in time.
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Nova_Terra
On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies.
I'll just throw the EBWOP in here so it makes more sense as I go.
On March 11 2012 17:44 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: FirmTofu, i think the one problem with lynching lurkers is that we dont really know if they are a lurker. my point is, that when people see your last message, they are going to post, right? especially if they are scum who are lurking. if a townie just doesnt show up (so isnt lurking) i find him more likely to be killed by your list than any mafia.
That being said, I think we should continue to suspect all people on that list. I guess that even includes myself. i just have a feeling that ~2 scum could be in there and will step up when their buddies tell them, "You gotta post, man!"
Read this as "Lynching lurkers is a good idea except when it's not, and if they're acting like lurkers they might not actually be lurkers, so if they didn't show up and post they're not actually lurking". That's, like, the definition of lurking.
NT goes on to just say "let's suspect everyone on that list just in case". We're 6 hours into the game at this point, there isn't nearly enough posting to justify a pure town read on ANYONE...of course we should be suspecting everyone this early on. This is useless filler.
Okay, let's talk about this FOS mess on day 1.
On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything.
Might as well just use this entire post rather than quoting everything that's nested inside it. First of all, reflex FOS after one post? That goes a little far, I think (never mind that FOS does nothing in this game, just inflames people and is essentially a push for early votes). Same sentiment could have been expressed as I have already - I've said already that I have a negative read on NT without making some big stink about it. Pressure plays should be vote based, because an FOS does nothing.
On March 12 2012 07:16 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 06:38 cosine wrote:On March 11 2012 23:50 Nova_Terra wrote:
Where cosine at.... i want him to respond to my suspicions hold your horses buddy i live in a different timezone. i think you're reading a bit too much into my post, i'll try to clarify. when i said sometimes it's good to no lynch in lylo, i think there was some confusion. idk what terminology is used here. maybe mylo? basically i meant in a lategame situation where the town can potentially throw the game away with a mislynch, but has killed enough scum already to eat a nightkill, especially if it means town power-roles get another shot. i was talking about a very specific scenario, so maybe i shouldn't have qualified my statement at all. so let me be clear, lynch is always better than no lynch. and i didn't post because i was called out for lurking, i posted because i was about to go to bed and that's always when i check mafia threads. the day hadn't even started last time i checked the thread. i'll be here with more frequency now that the game is going. see sloosh's play in newbie mini mafia IV. says nothing when it doesnt matter. once the discussion gets more substantive does he appear and work the town. idk what point you're trying to make here. i made a very general statement, and you countered with an extremely specific example, with which i'm not familiar. hope this clarifies things. i don't know what FOS means yet, i'm going now to check all the terminology that's used in liquid mafia, but i have to say i've read your posts and i like your play, as long as you don't get tunnel vision on me. pressure is a good way to get the discussion rolling. and isn't much better to build cases on people's posts instead of the lack thereof? that was the only point i was trying to make when i called tofu's call for a lurkerlynch stupid. This clarifies things substantially. Lylo: a situation where town must lynch mafia or they lose. FoS: finger of suspicion. Basically trying to get you to post to defend yourself. The point i was trying to make about sloosh's play was that that other playstyle should not be overlooked, as it was a vexing position to be in as town. Thanks for the compliment about liking my play, if you meant/included me in that statement. feels nice as i've been trying to justify my apparently hastily made Finger of Suspicion. Dont think that flattery will change anything on my end though. I'll be watching... I agree with building cases on peoples posts rather than the alternative, but i am confused as to why you didnt say just that. To me it came across as if you were trying to make his post seem invalid in the eyes of others by calling it stupid. in the games i have read through, this played a big part in how the town functioned around some certain players. unrelated side note, I have a nasty trigonometry class tomorrow, might need your help cosine xD All jokes aside, I think cosine is relatively cleared of suspicion for the most part. Next, eleanthus (or something along the lines of that): The main thing that bugged me about his post was just the "lynching lurkers maybe" thing. was wishy-washy, he presented nothing new to us and we couldnt even be sure of what his decision was. also, it slightly irked me that he totally seemed to ignore pretty much everything that had happened so far. I dont find it extremely suspicious or anything, but i want him to make a nice big post like cosine's so we can read into his thoughts so far. Lastly, Lurkers and/or lurker lynches. In this case, if we cant get anything out of eleanthus, then he is likely to be the candidate of choice for lynching. however, in the high probability chance of him doing exactly what cosine did, and having no other major scum slips come out of anyone, we will likely be put into the situation where we have to lynch one of these three to avoid a no lynch. Can i propose that we should decide which one of these three (or eleanthus) we should lynch no less than 8 hours before the deadline? this means that there wont be any last minute scrambling that results in a no lynch, and also provides enough of a time buffer that we should all be able to get votes in on that person before the deadline. This also leaves them plenty of time to come back and post before this decision. Reasonable? okay, im out for the night, see you all in a few hours.
I found this quote funny because A) he accuses Eleanthus of being wishy-washy on lurker lynches when I believe I've done a fairly good job of illustrating that he did the same thing with his early post, and B) we've gone from "maybe we shouldn't lynch lurkers because they might not be lurking" to "hey, let's look at lynching lurkers if we need to, in order to get a lynch in". He then goes on to move his vote off of FirmTofu later because he doesn't think that FT's lurking is actually lurking - so we're back to his first viewpoint.
On March 13 2012 01:08 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote:On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate.
Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything. No, I did not accuse him, however i did say that if he didnt post again and was lurking after a suspicious post that he had made, he would be a good lynch candidate. Its no more than suggesting we lynch a suspicious lurker during the day. I insisted once again on explaining the motives for my change of atitude because you seemed to ignore it and continue along your train of thought. felt that i had to clarify again so you would be sure to understand my motives. Now if you were suspicious of someone, and then somebody called you suspicious for being suspicious of that person, then went on to say the exact same reasons for also finding the person you accused of being suspicious of suspicious, wouldn't you be frustrated too? It just doesn't make sense to me. like, " This makes you seem guilty, but yeah i agree for all of the reasons you just said." And where did i threaten you? The fact that i was working on showing why i found your post to be suspicious isnt a threat. Its just what i was working on already. I didnt do it as a result or becoming mad or anything, i just wanted to show why it was strange. And once again it appears that you seem to have completely ignored my post. You should go back and read/respond to it. @Mementoss, yeah, im mad. Its because I dont understand why the rest of the town is thinking differently than me. or thinking the same and yet finding me suspicious for thinking in the way i am. It just doesnt make sense to me Eleanthas has my vote currently, until he posts up, and i think that he is the best candidate as the other 'lurkers' posted and his post was widely found suspicious. ##Vote Eleanthas
So much to talk about in this post. NT OMGUS's after Sbrubbles brings up the point that his recent posts had already been defensive. The reaction's totally out of proportion to what's going on here. The interesting thing that I see here is that NT keeps on emphasizing "I didn't accuse cosine!" I disagree.
On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote:
his post . . . seemed very scummy
(emphasis mine)
On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate.
That's an accusation.
Let's move on to the OMGUS reaction in the post @ 14:58 (it's nested). Sbrubbles sums up the post sequence rather nicely in his first post where he points out that NT accuses cosine (I've already discussed why this is an accurate portrayal), and then immediately goes on the extreme defensive when people start asking questions. How is this suspicious? I have absolutely no idea, because NT's explanation doesn't make a ton of sense.
I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything.
1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me.
2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion
3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness
4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious.
First of all, calling someone a scummy poster is apparently not the same as saying they're scum. What?
Secondly, I think I've made the point clear already that NT's been acting scummy in this thread. Why wouldn't Sbrubbles point out suspicions based on reading the thread - that's kind of the point of the game. Defensive, OMGUS reaction - that says scum to me.
Sbrubbles isn't misunderstanding an argument when he uses NT's own posts to make his point. He's pointing out an inconsistency. I'd say TN's making a pretty clear finger point especially after his second post.
Let's not forget this gem:
On March 13 2012 01:10 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: also, why would Sbrubbles want to pressure me for a response?
compare to:
4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious.
I'd also like to point out at this point that Mafia is a game of information. Eliciting responses from other players helps the town; why would NT dislike the application of pressure if he was town?
On March 14 2012 02:30 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 01:21 phagga wrote:
So, if there is a DT in this game, and he does not know who he should check, I would propose that he chose someone from this list:
- Eleanthas
- koritora
- cosine
What does everyone else think? I am in agreement with those three being good suspects for a dt to check. I want them (as well as everyone else) to come and post more. The trend seems to be posting some excuse for not posting and then not posting again. I have a couple other minor suspicions right now, but nothing worth noting, until i have a bit more to work with.
DT lists are a terrible idea, because A) it gives scum the opportunity to react, knowing that the DT will be checking the people on the list and B) the DT should be investigating and breadcrumbing his own results, not going off a list that could be influenced by scum. While I do have a town read on phagga, nothing's guaranteed - what's to say that's not a scum list? Plus, you're not even taking into account the possibility of a framer. Endorsing this list is scummy play.
On March 14 2012 14:53 Nova_Terra wrote:
Okay, i dont have time for a long post right now, but i will come on in a few hours and hopefully respond to everything in this post.
Lets just think about this for a second. Forgive me if i am wrong, but Sbrubbles didnt really present us with anything other than suspicion about me. he did it twice, i believe, and both times it was noticable. Then he dies.
Of course it makes sense to suspect me, but Thats just the point. What would the mafia gain from his death if he died? nothing really, and his only big suspicion was on me. Therefore i would seem suspicious. its like framing without a framer, i guess.
I voted for Gossemerr instead of tofu because i thought tofu was a townie and therefore not the target to lynch. it makes sense to avoid lynching someone you suspect as townie.
By thinking Eleanthas i meant that i agreed with whoever suggested a vote on him unless he stepped up, which he did. I meant that i would probably go with him of nothing else came up and he didnt post. I apologise, i should have clarified what i thought more.
sorry, i will post in a couple hours, just dont have the time, and i hate typing on an ipad.
First of all, let's talk about Sbrubbles. NT does a great job WIFOMing his way out of this. "Well, it couldn't possibly be because Sbrubbles suspected me, it's because the mafia wanted me to be under closer suspicion!" We have only his word on this, and I'm not inclined to take it. WIFOM is not credible. By killing Sbrubbles, the mafia gain the benefit of silencing someone who was already suspicious of one of their members. Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the most credible. I think this applies even more here because this is a newbie game. I doubt there are going to be the same level of mindgames here as there would be in a game full of vets.
NT uses the excuse of "Well, I decided Tofu was a townie" to justify his vote switch, but honestly, his vote switch was completely meaningless. The result was already set, so he could switch with impunity - in fact, you notice that he says things like
On March 13 2012 05:09 Nova_Terra wrote:
Truthfully i have a feeling that this vote will end up mislynching a townie. I think a mafia would be defending themselves right now. even so, i dont see how we could get much of a better lynch....
after the majority's already locked in on FT. At this point, he's able to backfill and make these posts, since it doesn't matter whether he votes for FT or someone else. Was he the motivator of this vote? No, but he certainly didn't object until after there was already a majority. He even states himself that it was "too close to the lynch deadline" to stop the bandwagon rolling.
Alright, now we get to come back to that point I made earlier about the Eleantris vote on day 1. I want to point out that NT's already made clear his early suspicions of Elea, and then posts his case on a Gosse/Elea/InfernO scumteam (It's a lot of words, I won't quote it here). He then proceeds to vote for...Gossemerr. Why? I have absolutely no idea, considering he already had his suspicions of Elea on day one. I'll also note here that he was one of the first people to swap his vote to Elea, and I'd actually argue that him doing so really got the bandwagon rolling, considering we really needed a lynch Day 2 (we were already at 3 on Gosse, and then everyone followed TN to Elea).
Lastly, I'd like to quote phagga:
On March 16 2012 08:32 phagga wrote:
Nova_Terra: No offense, but I think you are reading to much into the connection between Gossemerr, Eleanthas and inferno. That case won't hold with those arguments, I'm afraid.
I really didn't want to put this into my case if I was the only one saying it, but phagga's right there with me. This whole "connection analysis" thing that NT's pushing is very weak. I don't think it's a legitimate case, and it's meant to distract us from scumhunting.
I'd also like to take into account the lynch results of Day 2. Eleantris was TOWN. NT's been busy being "suspicious" of Elea since Day 1, and obviously nothing's changed since that point as far as his feelings have gone (see his day 2 case, as mentioned earlier). If you count Sbrubbles, that's two townies that have disappeared after attracting NT's attention - on this one, he even admits leading the mislynch. Interesting.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 17 2012 04:43 Velinath wrote:Nova_Terra Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. I'll just throw the EBWOP in here so it makes more sense as I go.Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 17:44 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: FirmTofu, i think the one problem with lynching lurkers is that we dont really know if they are a lurker. my point is, that when people see your last message, they are going to post, right? especially if they are scum who are lurking. if a townie just doesnt show up (so isnt lurking) i find him more likely to be killed by your list than any mafia.
That being said, I think we should continue to suspect all people on that list. I guess that even includes myself. i just have a feeling that ~2 scum could be in there and will step up when their buddies tell them, "You gotta post, man!" Read this as "Lynching lurkers is a good idea except when it's not, and if they're acting like lurkers they might not actually be lurkers, so if they didn't show up and post they're not actually lurking". That's, like, the definition of lurking.
NT goes on to just say "let's suspect everyone on that list just in case". We're 6 hours into the game at this point, there isn't nearly enough posting to justify a pure town read on ANYONE...of course we should be suspecting everyone this early on. This is useless filler.Okay, let's talk about this FOS mess on day 1. Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. Might as well just use this entire post rather than quoting everything that's nested inside it. First of all, reflex FOS after one post? That goes a little far, I think (never mind that FOS does nothing in this game, just inflames people and is essentially a push for early votes). Same sentiment could have been expressed as I have already - I've said already that I have a negative read on NT without making some big stink about it. Pressure plays should be vote based, because an FOS does nothing.
On March 12 2012 07:16 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 06:38 cosine wrote:On March 11 2012 23:50 Nova_Terra wrote:
Where cosine at.... i want him to respond to my suspicions hold your horses buddy i live in a different timezone. i think you're reading a bit too much into my post, i'll try to clarify. when i said sometimes it's good to no lynch in lylo, i think there was some confusion. idk what terminology is used here. maybe mylo? basically i meant in a lategame situation where the town can potentially throw the game away with a mislynch, but has killed enough scum already to eat a nightkill, especially if it means town power-roles get another shot. i was talking about a very specific scenario, so maybe i shouldn't have qualified my statement at all. so let me be clear, lynch is always better than no lynch. and i didn't post because i was called out for lurking, i posted because i was about to go to bed and that's always when i check mafia threads. the day hadn't even started last time i checked the thread. i'll be here with more frequency now that the game is going. see sloosh's play in newbie mini mafia IV. says nothing when it doesnt matter. once the discussion gets more substantive does he appear and work the town. idk what point you're trying to make here. i made a very general statement, and you countered with an extremely specific example, with which i'm not familiar. hope this clarifies things. i don't know what FOS means yet, i'm going now to check all the terminology that's used in liquid mafia, but i have to say i've read your posts and i like your play, as long as you don't get tunnel vision on me. pressure is a good way to get the discussion rolling. and isn't much better to build cases on people's posts instead of the lack thereof? that was the only point i was trying to make when i called tofu's call for a lurkerlynch stupid. This clarifies things substantially. Lylo: a situation where town must lynch mafia or they lose. FoS: finger of suspicion. Basically trying to get you to post to defend yourself. The point i was trying to make about sloosh's play was that that other playstyle should not be overlooked, as it was a vexing position to be in as town. Thanks for the compliment about liking my play, if you meant/included me in that statement. feels nice as i've been trying to justify my apparently hastily made Finger of Suspicion. Dont think that flattery will change anything on my end though. I'll be watching... I agree with building cases on peoples posts rather than the alternative, but i am confused as to why you didnt say just that. To me it came across as if you were trying to make his post seem invalid in the eyes of others by calling it stupid. in the games i have read through, this played a big part in how the town functioned around some certain players. unrelated side note, I have a nasty trigonometry class tomorrow, might need your help cosine xD All jokes aside, I think cosine is relatively cleared of suspicion for the most part. Next, eleanthus (or something along the lines of that): The main thing that bugged me about his post was just the "lynching lurkers maybe" thing. was wishy-washy, he presented nothing new to us and we couldnt even be sure of what his decision was. also, it slightly irked me that he totally seemed to ignore pretty much everything that had happened so far. I dont find it extremely suspicious or anything, but i want him to make a nice big post like cosine's so we can read into his thoughts so far. Lastly, Lurkers and/or lurker lynches. In this case, if we cant get anything out of eleanthus, then he is likely to be the candidate of choice for lynching. however, in the high probability chance of him doing exactly what cosine did, and having no other major scum slips come out of anyone, we will likely be put into the situation where we have to lynch one of these three to avoid a no lynch. Can i propose that we should decide which one of these three (or eleanthus) we should lynch no less than 8 hours before the deadline? this means that there wont be any last minute scrambling that results in a no lynch, and also provides enough of a time buffer that we should all be able to get votes in on that person before the deadline. This also leaves them plenty of time to come back and post before this decision. Reasonable? okay, im out for the night, see you all in a few hours.
I found this quote funny because A) he accuses Eleanthus of being wishy-washy on lurker lynches when I believe I've done a fairly good job of illustrating that he did the same thing with his early post, and B) we've gone from "maybe we shouldn't lynch lurkers because they might not be lurking" to "hey, let's look at lynching lurkers if we need to, in order to get a lynch in". He then goes on to move his vote off of FirmTofu later because he doesn't think that FT's lurking is actually lurking - so we're back to his first viewpoint.
On March 13 2012 01:08 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote:On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate.
Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything. No, I did not accuse him, however i did say that if he didnt post again and was lurking after a suspicious post that he had made, he would be a good lynch candidate. Its no more than suggesting we lynch a suspicious lurker during the day. I insisted once again on explaining the motives for my change of atitude because you seemed to ignore it and continue along your train of thought. felt that i had to clarify again so you would be sure to understand my motives. Now if you were suspicious of someone, and then somebody called you suspicious for being suspicious of that person, then went on to say the exact same reasons for also finding the person you accused of being suspicious of suspicious, wouldn't you be frustrated too? It just doesn't make sense to me. like, " This makes you seem guilty, but yeah i agree for all of the reasons you just said." And where did i threaten you? The fact that i was working on showing why i found your post to be suspicious isnt a threat. Its just what i was working on already. I didnt do it as a result or becoming mad or anything, i just wanted to show why it was strange. And once again it appears that you seem to have completely ignored my post. You should go back and read/respond to it. @Mementoss, yeah, im mad. Its because I dont understand why the rest of the town is thinking differently than me. or thinking the same and yet finding me suspicious for thinking in the way i am. It just doesnt make sense to me Eleanthas has my vote currently, until he posts up, and i think that he is the best candidate as the other 'lurkers' posted and his post was widely found suspicious. ##Vote Eleanthas
So much to talk about in this post. NT OMGUS's after Sbrubbles brings up the point that his recent posts had already been defensive. The reaction's totally out of proportion to what's going on here. The interesting thing that I see here is that NT keeps on emphasizing "I didn't accuse cosine!" I disagree.
On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote:
his post . . . seemed very scummy
(emphasis mine)
On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate.
That's an accusation.
Let's move on to the OMGUS reaction in the post @ 14:58 (it's nested). Sbrubbles sums up the post sequence rather nicely in his first post where he points out that NT accuses cosine (I've already discussed why this is an accurate portrayal), and then immediately goes on the extreme defensive when people start asking questions. How is this suspicious? I have absolutely no idea, because NT's explanation doesn't make a ton of sense.
I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything.
1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me.
2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion
3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness
4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious.
First of all, calling someone a scummy poster is apparently not the same as saying they're scum. What?
Secondly, I think I've made the point clear already that NT's been acting scummy in this thread. Why wouldn't Sbrubbles point out suspicions based on reading the thread - that's kind of the point of the game. Defensive, OMGUS reaction - that says scum to me.
Sbrubbles isn't misunderstanding an argument when he uses NT's own posts to make his point. He's pointing out an inconsistency. I'd say TN's making a pretty clear finger point especially after his second post.
Let's not forget this gem:
On March 13 2012 01:10 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: also, why would Sbrubbles want to pressure me for a response?
compare to:
4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious.
I'd also like to point out at this point that Mafia is a game of information. Eliciting responses from other players helps the town; why would NT dislike the application of pressure if he was town?Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 02:30 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 14 2012 01:21 phagga wrote:
So, if there is a DT in this game, and he does not know who he should check, I would propose that he chose someone from this list:
- Eleanthas
- koritora
- cosine
What does everyone else think? I am in agreement with those three being good suspects for a dt to check. I want them (as well as everyone else) to come and post more. The trend seems to be posting some excuse for not posting and then not posting again. I have a couple other minor suspicions right now, but nothing worth noting, until i have a bit more to work with. DT lists are a terrible idea, because A) it gives scum the opportunity to react, knowing that the DT will be checking the people on the list and B) the DT should be investigating and breadcrumbing his own results, not going off a list that could be influenced by scum. While I do have a town read on phagga, nothing's guaranteed - what's to say that's not a scum list? Plus, you're not even taking into account the possibility of a framer. Endorsing this list is scummy play.Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 14:53 Nova_Terra wrote:
Okay, i dont have time for a long post right now, but i will come on in a few hours and hopefully respond to everything in this post.
Lets just think about this for a second. Forgive me if i am wrong, but Sbrubbles didnt really present us with anything other than suspicion about me. he did it twice, i believe, and both times it was noticable. Then he dies.
Of course it makes sense to suspect me, but Thats just the point. What would the mafia gain from his death if he died? nothing really, and his only big suspicion was on me. Therefore i would seem suspicious. its like framing without a framer, i guess.
I voted for Gossemerr instead of tofu because i thought tofu was a townie and therefore not the target to lynch. it makes sense to avoid lynching someone you suspect as townie.
By thinking Eleanthas i meant that i agreed with whoever suggested a vote on him unless he stepped up, which he did. I meant that i would probably go with him of nothing else came up and he didnt post. I apologise, i should have clarified what i thought more.
sorry, i will post in a couple hours, just dont have the time, and i hate typing on an ipad. First of all, let's talk about Sbrubbles. NT does a great job WIFOMing his way out of this. "Well, it couldn't possibly be because Sbrubbles suspected me, it's because the mafia wanted me to be under closer suspicion!" We have only his word on this, and I'm not inclined to take it. WIFOM is not credible. By killing Sbrubbles, the mafia gain the benefit of silencing someone who was already suspicious of one of their members. Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the most credible. I think this applies even more here because this is a newbie game. I doubt there are going to be the same level of mindgames here as there would be in a game full of vets.
NT uses the excuse of "Well, I decided Tofu was a townie" to justify his vote switch, but honestly, his vote switch was completely meaningless. The result was already set, so he could switch with impunity - in fact, you notice that he says things likeShow nested quote +On March 13 2012 05:09 Nova_Terra wrote:
Truthfully i have a feeling that this vote will end up mislynching a townie. I think a mafia would be defending themselves right now. even so, i dont see how we could get much of a better lynch.... after the majority's already locked in on FT. At this point, he's able to backfill and make these posts, since it doesn't matter whether he votes for FT or someone else. Was he the motivator of this vote? No, but he certainly didn't object until after there was already a majority. He even states himself that it was "too close to the lynch deadline" to stop the bandwagon rolling.
Alright, now we get to come back to that point I made earlier about the Eleantris vote on day 1. I want to point out that NT's already made clear his early suspicions of Elea, and then posts his case on a Gosse/Elea/InfernO scumteam (It's a lot of words, I won't quote it here). He then proceeds to vote for...Gossemerr. Why? I have absolutely no idea, considering he already had his suspicions of Elea on day one. I'll also note here that he was one of the first people to swap his vote to Elea, and I'd actually argue that him doing so really got the bandwagon rolling, considering we really needed a lynch Day 2 (we were already at 3 on Gosse, and then everyone followed TN to Elea).
Lastly, I'd like to quote phagga: Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 08:32 phagga wrote:
Nova_Terra: No offense, but I think you are reading to much into the connection between Gossemerr, Eleanthas and inferno. That case won't hold with those arguments, I'm afraid. I really didn't want to put this into my case if I was the only one saying it, but phagga's right there with me. This whole "connection analysis" thing that NT's pushing is very weak. I don't think it's a legitimate case, and it's meant to distract us from scumhunting.
I'd also like to take into account the lynch results of Day 2. Eleantris was TOWN. NT's been busy being "suspicious" of Elea since Day 1, and obviously nothing's changed since that point as far as his feelings have gone (see his day 2 case, as mentioned earlier). If you count Sbrubbles, that's two townies that have disappeared after attracting NT's attention - on this one, he even admits leading the mislynch. Interesting.
Ok on point 1
“Read this as "Lynching lurkers is a good idea except when it's not, and if they're acting like lurkers they might not actually be lurkers, so if they didn't show up and post they're not actually lurking". That's, like, the definition of lurking”
No, read that as people who have lots of suspicion drawn to them and are about to be voted are more likely to post to defend themselves rather than not, if they are actually there. And I think a mafia would probably be there.
And of course it wasn’t enough posting yet to consider someone town. I meant that those should all be people that we may end up lynching day 1.
Onto the FOS, I feel that I sufficiently explained that multiple times. I do find that an FOS does things.
“I found this quote funny because A) he accuses Eleanthus of being wishy-washy on lurker lynches when I believe I've done a fairly good job of illustrating that he did the same thing with his early post, and B) we've gone from "maybe we shouldn't lynch lurkers because they might not be lurking" to "hey, let's look at lynching lurkers if we need to, in order to get a lynch in". He then goes on to move his vote off of FirmTofu later because he doesn't think that FT's lurking is actually lurking - so we're back to his first viewpoint.”
Next, pointing out a problem with lurker lynches and saying maybe we shouldn’t lynch them are two totally separate things. You may be reading into this a little too hard. I did say from the beginning that I would be open to a lurker lynch if there was some scum evidence.
I explained the FirmTofu thing as well as I could.
“That's an accusation.”
No, in my opinion an accusation would be saying “this person is scum.” This is pretty much saying that he is suspicious enough that a vote on him would make sense. Still, I was looking to generate discussion and posting.
“Let's move on to the OMGUS reaction in the post @ 14:58 (it's nested). Sbrubbles sums up the post sequence rather nicely in his first post where he points out that NT accuses cosine (I've already discussed why this is an accurate portrayal), and then immediately goes on the extreme defensive when people start asking questions. How is this suspicious? I have absolutely no idea, because NT's explanation doesn't make a ton of sense. “
Where did you explain why that’s an accusation?
I find that my explanation does make sense. Please tell me what doesn’t, and I can elaborate if necessary.
Uh, no. Calling a move scummy and saying that someone is scum are two different things. One is related to the other, of course.
When someone points out suspicions, becoming defensive makes more sense to me than pushing on aggressively and ignoring the suspicions.
“Let's not forget this gem:
On March 13 2012 01:10 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: also, why would Sbrubbles want to pressure me for a response?
compare to:
4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious.
I'd also like to point out at this point that Mafia is a game of information. Eliciting responses from other players helps the town; why would NT dislike the application of pressure if he was town?[/i]”
Someone said that Sbrubbles was pressuring me for responses, I asked why.
“DT lists are a terrible idea, because A) it gives scum the opportunity to react, knowing that the DT will be checking the people on the list and B) the DT should be investigating and breadcrumbing his own results, not going off a list that could be influenced by scum. While I do have a town read on phagga, nothing's guaranteed - what's to say that's not a scum list? Plus, you're not even taking into account the possibility of a framer. Endorsing this list is scummy play.”
I find that DT lists aren’t a terrible idea for reasons that myself but mostly Phagga has already explained. Spreading town suspicion thoughts would make the dt more accurate. Of course I took into account the possibility of a framer. However, if the dt checked 1/3 people on this list there is a 1/3 chance the framer would hit the same one, and all players were lurkers I believe, so losing one wouldn’t be terrible and dt would know that mafia has a framer.
“First of all, let's talk about Sbrubbles. NT does a great job WIFOMing his way out of this. "Well, it couldn't possibly be because Sbrubbles suspected me, it's because the mafia wanted me to be under closer suspicion!" We have only his word on this, and I'm not inclined to take it. WIFOM is not credible. By killing Sbrubbles, the mafia gain the benefit of silencing someone who was already suspicious of one of their members. Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the most credible. I think this applies even more here because this is a newbie game. I doubt there are going to be the same level of mindgames here as there would be in a game full of vets.”
If my WIFOM wasn’t credible, in what way was the case made by Seviro credible as well as his was also based on WIFOM? And where did I say anything that meant “well, it couldn’t possibly be because sbrubbles suspected me” what? I said the exact opposite. Because sbrubbles suspected me, he died. I find that argument just as simple.
Yes, I did say that that vote switch was wishy washy, and I did think that it might be able to influence the vote. I had a hope.
Yes, I explained my vote on gossemerr instead of eleanthas as well. The day 1 suspicions, as I said, were inactivity related. And, as I said, I was fine with an Ele lynch though as well, so I did change to ele to get a more likely lynch. And yeah I did say that that was probably my fault.
Yeah, I read too much into connections and convinced myself that they were correct. The fact that the points I had made in the individual portions of that post seemed suspicious from them was enough for me to continue to delude myself into thinking I was totally correct.
And yes, I feel that the mislynch was largely my fault.
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I'll respond to this when I have time to sort through your formatting.
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If someone is modkilled I'm willing to take their place.
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okay, i'm apparently supposed to head out for dinner in 20 minutes, so this is going to be a very short post.
To at least start to dissect your post: calling someone's post scummy and him a good lynch candidate is an accusation especially coupled with an instant FoS.
I never said Sev's case was credible but your defense was completely WIFOM and that's what I'm pointing out.
Your weird relationship analysis half-case led us right off a cliff. As you said it was your fault. You can argue townie making mistakes but I definitely see it as scummy.
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On March 16 2012 16:03 Gossemerr wrote:
How in the world could understanding how the mafia are thinking be bad for us town? If we can accurately figure out why the mafia killed whom they did we can link it back to the individuals involved. Its a integral part of the analysis. If we just ignored all of the night phases and focused only on the outcomes of lynches that would be terrible. In fact that would be what the scum would want from us - to effectively lose half of the game's information. To not worry about their motives and to fight about the mis-lynches. I agree that the staight up kills can be misleading, but thats where the ANALYSIS comes in. Anyways, I still think there needs to be more discussion on Janaan, Phagga, and Nova - especially Phagga and Janaan.
Also, I guess my suspicion that Ele wasn't any more scummy than others was right..
This part of Gossemerr's last post concerns me a bit. I know Phagga already mentioned some of what I'm about to say, but I think it's worth saying again, in addition to some other comments I have.
I don't like how he readily admits that he is not only using WIFOM logic regarding night kills, he is using it to make his cases. I can forgive a slight usage of WIFOM if it is only there to supplement the rest of the argument, but Gossemerr isn't doing that. Instead, he's taking the night kill, assuming that he can "Accurately figure out why the mafia killed whom they did" and going from there with confirmation bias. The problem is that these assumptions may be incorrect. No amount of analysis will give you a 100% unquestionably right answer when you're dealing with WIFOM, and if you're incorrect, you have no way of knowing until a mislynch has been made.
The other part that I have a problem with, is that he obviously thinks that myself, Phagga, and Nova_Terra are scummy, but I have yet to see why. He wants there to be more discussion surrounding the three of us, but then seems to be relying on others to "do his dirty work". Instead of just coming out and explaining exactly why he still finds us scummy, he makes general comments and expect the rest of us to follow up on them. I'd say that this is trying to put suspicion on the three of us, without actually bringing anything new to the table.
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EBWOP: At the minute, I don't have any comments on the case on Nova_Terra or his defense, but it is interesting. If Velinath has more to say later about Nova's defense, I may have something to say about that.
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On March 17 2012 10:52 Janaan wrote:
EBWOP: At the minute, I don't have any comments on the case on Nova_Terra or his defense, but it is interesting. If Velinath has more to say later about Nova's defense, I may have something to say about that.
Yeah i'm on the same place as you, I read Velinath's case thoroughtly throughout the day and I don't have anything to add at the moment other than this post.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 16 2012 06:45 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote + And by the way, Nova gets mad and makes a case for anyone who says anything about him. He flips his mind every time a new argument is made, just following the flow of the thread. Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 06:24 Gossemerr wrote:
Additionally, the evidence that Ele, Me, and Infero are related is just as bad as you say my evidence that Nova, Phagga, and Janaan are possibly related. .... Wow, i actually dont know what to say. I feel offended by this, the first time i've felt offended by anything on the internet in some time. Can you trash me a bit more here? Back up your defense. I've made a total of 2 cases in the game, one against cosine to make day 1 conversation, and one against you(which includes ele and inferno). other than that, i have pointed out suspicious things in peoples play while noting that it wasnt an accusation, and in most cases, people agree. I got mad once, and said it. thats it. I most certainly do not make a case for anyone that said anything about me. actually, until now, i feel that you, ele, and inferno have barely pressured me, and if you did, i barely noticed it. and you guys are my one good case. once again, back up your defense. the evidence that you, ele, and inferno are related is not bad, it easily could make logical sense. also, i believe that i was the first to call janaan's questioning out, whereas you didnt do anything to pressure ele or inferno in any way. When i see a logical argument, i go through filters and see what makes sense. its not flipping my mind whenever a new argument is made, its genuine curiousity for the argument and if it agrees with the filters than it could work. Lastly, This, meaning TL Mafia in general, doesnt take that much of a time committment. you dont have to be on here half as much as me to still be an effective and active player. most of the time, i just check in quickly. If you cant make a committment to like 45 minutes to 1 hour of time in 1 day, i dont see why you would join a highly interactive co-dependent game like this. How rude.
All these OMGUS moment since the start of the game from him really bothers me and make him feels really scummy in my eyes. These are part of the reason why I jumped on his case after the death of Scrubbles, During day 1, he was the most suspicious to me because of that.
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EBWOP throughout the night, not the day.
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United States22154 Posts
Day 3
It was a quiet night, only the cycling of the airflow tubes and the clang of the ventilation resounded in the coolness of the vault.
phagga sat, a cigar clenched between his teeth and a single bud from his ipod in his ear. phagga sat and thought, turning over the possibilities in his mind, considering every angle, letting his mind wander, as the music resounded in his ears.
Closing doorways as your building a fire,
Watching lies received as you silently conspire
"This is a heart attack and I want my life back"
In the hall the currents changed, the cold of the vault hallways was replaced by a sinister warmth, a very discomforting warmth, one reminiscent of rot and unspeakable sickness. So focused was phagga, that he failed to notice this abrupt change. Instead he sat, musing.
We can take this if we fake this if we try
Oh, everybody wants you and you know that they won’t be alive to take you home
"They found me now and I don’t think you understand that I was lost
I was lost and I had no place to go but I don’t think you’d understand"
From behind phagga the shadows crawled, converging at his back, and still he sat, motionless, like a statue, the cigar clenched between his fingers, his gaze ten thousand miles away, caught in another time, another world, another string of brutal murders.
Taking chances or just breathing in vain
The four lives lost at cost were twenty times less worth your name
This is a heart attack and you want your life back
"I can take this if I fake this if they die"
Glinting steel and whispers in the dark crawled behind phagga, but the weight on his shoulders was much greater. If he noticed death approaching behind him, he chose to disregard it, just sitting, waiting and looking into the past. A past long ago buried.
And you want what you can’t change,
but your selfish pride will take the lives of others you could save.
And before you make this right;
you’ve come this far without a scar, your saving us tonight.
In the morning the found him, still sitting in a puddle of blood, the cigar still caught between his fingers, the song still playing in the background, and his eyes still misted over, caught ten decades in the past.
phagga the Vanilla Townie has been brutally assassinated
It is now day 3! You have 48 hours to determine who to lynch. Remember, you need a majority at the deadline to lynch. The deadline is 12:00 KST. That means that votes at 21:59:59 will be counted, but votes at 22:00:00 will not.
Remember, behave like ladies and gentlemen and no editing and remember to format your votes correctly. Check the ZBot count to be sure. PM me if you have any questions.
Still trying to replace the inactives from yesterday, if no replacement is found by the end of this day, they will be modkilled
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##Vote: Nova_Terra
This is on the basis of my case. I have put forth basically the only significant post-based case so far, and I'm willing to put my vote down based on that.
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Also i fully responded to seviros case without using wifom in the next post, not sure if you saw.
In your case the one thing that botherd me is that you took small portions of my posts without my backing it up, and it makes it seem way more suspicious than it actually is. same with you using quotationmarks in your analysis of my posts to state your opinion on what my posts meant, when it isnt actually what i said/ thought.
This death interests me. I would have thought that mafia would have kept phagga alive so as to keep suspicion on a Nova Phagga Janaan connection. Perhaps a play to make it seem as if i wanted him dead to make myself seem inno?
I hate WIFOM.
gonna go through phaggas filter to see if i can find anything useful that i can pick up on.
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hmm, if we lynch another townie, we lose. that is, if blues dont get a heal or mafia kill etc.
At this point in time, is it a good idea for a dt to come out and say what he found? then at least we might stop lynching townies.
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On March 17 2012 17:32 Nova_Terra wrote:
hmm, if we lynch another townie, we lose. that is, if blues dont get a heal or mafia kill etc.
At this point in time, is it a good idea for a dt to come out and say what he found? then at least we might stop lynching townies.
I agree we're in a lynch or lose sort of situation a DT claim now would probably be good. I don't think we can risk lynching a lurker because of the situation, or lynching a brand new replacement due to lack of facts. I've been really sick yesterday and today, that's why my activity has/will been slightly lower. WIll try to get up to date with the thread later today though.
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On March 17 2012 17:19 Nova_Terra wrote:
Also i fully responded to seviros case without using wifom in the next post, not sure if you saw.
In your case the one thing that botherd me is that you took small portions of my posts without my backing it up, and it makes it seem way more suspicious than it actually is. same with you using quotationmarks in your analysis of my posts to state your opinion on what my posts meant, when it isnt actually what i said/ thought.
This death interests me. I would have thought that mafia would have kept phagga alive so as to keep suspicion on a Nova Phagga Janaan connection. Perhaps a play to make it seem as if i wanted him dead to make myself seem inno?
I hate WIFOM.
gonna go through phaggas filter to see if i can find anything useful that i can pick up on.
Did you even read what I said after you posted your defense? And stop WIFOMing, it doesn't get us anywhere. phagga said something good before he died - nightkills get us nothing until we lynch a scum.
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On March 17 2012 23:22 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 17:19 Nova_Terra wrote:
Also i fully responded to seviros case without using wifom in the next post, not sure if you saw.
In your case the one thing that botherd me is that you took small portions of my posts without my backing it up, and it makes it seem way more suspicious than it actually is. same with you using quotationmarks in your analysis of my posts to state your opinion on what my posts meant, when it isnt actually what i said/ thought.
This death interests me. I would have thought that mafia would have kept phagga alive so as to keep suspicion on a Nova Phagga Janaan connection. Perhaps a play to make it seem as if i wanted him dead to make myself seem inno?
I hate WIFOM.
gonna go through phaggas filter to see if i can find anything useful that i can pick up on. Did you even read what I said after you posted your defense? And stop WIFOMing, it doesn't get us anywhere. phagga said something good before he died - nightkills get us nothing until we lynch a scum.
Umm, yes, you said that my defense was completely WIFOM and it wasnt.
Im trying to use possible logic to figure it out myself. nightkills can help us learn. putting out my view on what mafia was thinking makes sense. its not like im using it to accuse anyone or anything.
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You can talk about the view of what the mafia were thinking all you want but that still doesn't get you any closer to finding a lynch candidate. Your thought process gets us, basically, this: "Either I'm scum or someone else is", without specifying who that someone else actually is. I don't think that's beneficial in any way.
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ebwop: You didn't explain why you supported DT lists given the possibility that the DT list was generated by scum. You talked a lot about framers, but what if the list itself is made by scum and just contains a bunch of townies? Basically a waste of DT nights.
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1. I thought that phagga was leaning town and
2. I thought that the targets on his list were good ones to check.
Also, even if it doesnt get is closer to a lynch target, it is something valid to discuss because a possible insight into mafia thinking is one thing that town can take from the mafia. if we can know how they think blues might be able to predict what they will do, etc.
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On March 17 2012 23:53 Nova_Terra wrote:
1. I thought that phagga was leaning town and
2. I thought that the targets on his list were good ones to check.
Also, even if it doesnt get is closer to a lynch target, it is something valid to discuss because a possible insight into mafia thinking is one thing that town can take from the mafia. if we can know how they think blues might be able to predict what they will do, etc.
And then scum does the exact opposite of what you expect because you discussed what their likely next targets will be.
We're at, what, 5-3 right now? We can't afford to get distracted. If you want to discuss anything go make a case. A real case, not some half-baked relationship analysis that only served to distract people and lynch a townie (thanks for that, by the way). Base it on posts. Effective scumhunting has been sadly lacking this game.
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Alright, I'm going to post my analysis of Phagga's death so we can get it over with, cause it's inevidedable that it will be talked about. I will eventually get to my response on the Veli Nova debate, but I'm not sure yet I need to re-read over filters and the discussion. I would like to hear Seviro's opinions he has had some good analysis in the past. Onto Phagga:
Phagga:
Day 1:
Policy: Lynch everyday
Suspicions:
Sbrubbles, Eleanthas, FirmTofu, Koritora
Vote:
Firmtofu
My Analysis:
As you can see, almost everyone Phagga was suspicious of Day 1 was wrong and is now confirmed townie. He bandwagoned because of fear of a no lynch day 1. Had a slight suspicion against Nova early but never brought it up afterwards. Overall not very telling of why mafia would want to kill him, bandwagoning bad town lynches, suspicious of townies.
Night 1
The list:
Makes an analysis list of everyone who voted FirmTofu. Here is a quick explanation:
FoS: Eleanthas
Seems town: Janaan, Mementoss
Null: Seviro, Gossemerr
Suspicious: Infern0, Cosine
DT Check:
Koritora, Eleanthas, Cosine
My analysis
The mafia didn't seem too concerned with his posting during the night. This is probably because his main target who he pressured was Eleanthas, who we now know is town. His suspicious are Infern0 and cosine, this could mean that they are also town, but not for sure, just as mafia wasn't threatened by this. Or it could just be phagga wasn't number 1 on their list at that point. As nova was most active, and Sbrubbles was a threat? (only went for NT) WIFOM but still worth nothing.
Day 2:
Replies to Seviros case vs Nova:
Disregards a portion of it to WIFOM. Then says some arguments in it our good, but doesn't really push back against Nova terra, seems like a soft defense on Nova.
Replies to Mementoss Phagga, Nova Connection:
Explains why he thinks DT lists are a good way of keeping town active. States looking into mafia kills is a waste of time (the irony of me doing this on his post -_-) Explains that he didn't include Nova on his list because he guarenteed 1-2 people who voted firmtofu were probably scum.
Votes: Infern0 than changes to Eleanthas, who flips town
Lynch Lurkers Post:
Explains the reasoning behind lynching lurkers and why it can only benefit town. Counters Gossemerrs point on lynching lurkers being a waste of time. "tldr; lynch lurker, better for town, less risk."
Makes this lurker list:
Active Players (6):
- Gossemerr
- Mementoss
- Nova_Terra
- Seviro
- Janaan
- phagga
Somehow active but barely contributing (1):
- Eleanthas
lurking like there is no tomorrow (3):
- cosine
- koritora
- InfernOokami7
Counters Gossemerrs argument:
On March 15 2012 19:20 phagga wrote:Sorry, forgot to answer to the second part of your post: Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 08:27 Gossemerr wrote:
Moving on, there is a fishy link between Janaan, Phagga, and Nova_Terra. Nova's behavior has already been discussed so not going to bring that up here, but Phagga has not really has yet to been focused. He /she has yet to really offer any analysis except one post a few hours after the day 2 post, in which he / she focuses only on the people who voted for FirmTofu1, and doing so dismisses Janaan rather easily as town.2 While on the issue of voting, he constantly wants to talk about the people who are lurking, but there is realy nothing to talk about considering that they are lurking..3 Seems scummy to me to keep the town going in circles and wasting hours of actual analysis. Of course the lurkers could be mafia, but really nothing new here. Janaan also wants to lynch the lurkers, and easily agrees with Phagga.
My money is on Janaan right now unless something else comes up. He is saying just enough to get by, without saying anything really at all.4
##Vote: Janaan I'm a "he", just for the record. 1 Right, and you analyzed everyone in the game. Oh wait, you did not, the above paragraph is the only analysis you have done so far. So, what exactly is wrong with me analyzing "only" 6 of 10 people? 2 I never said he was town. I stated that there is 1-2 scum in the group of FirmTofu voters, which means there is also 1-2 scum in the group of non-FirmTofu voters. And I can't believe you bring this up again after Nova_Terra and I both explained this very point to Mementoss. 3 If noone is talking about the lurkers, they will be forgotten and get by with it. It has happened in other games, it can happen here. 4 And you said so much more, right? Let's see... You - call cosine suspicious with a daring argument- have disagreed that Eleanthas looks scummy (without giving a reason)- in the same post agreed that FirmTofu looks scummy, reasoning that you wanted to make the same case as Mementoss (but never presented one) - call out Janaan for having a "weird timing"- try to make up a connection between me, Janaan and Nova_Terra And you think you have contributed more than Janaan? I mean, he is lacking content too, but you are definitely the wrong one to call him out on that. You are desperately looking for arguments to connect the three of us when there is nothing to connect the three of us. I could, with the very arguments you used, claim that you and Eleanthas have a secret connection. Actually, that would even make sense, because you are both halflurking and barely contributing. What do you say about that?
^^First to mention Eleanthas Gossemerr connection, in which Nova fleshes out later. Later states he didn't want this "connection" theory to lead towards a lynch case. It does, and he switches his vote towards majority Eleanthas who flips town.
My Analysis:
Pressures against Gossemerr, votes Eleanthas who is town. Wants to lynch lurkers/semi lurkers. Maybe this means that mafia are lurking or active, hard to tell at this point because they didn't kill him until the night after.
Night 2:
On March 16 2012 20:27 phagga wrote:Ok, I just want to make this perfectly clear: When I "hinted" at a connection between Eleanthas and Gossemerr, I made it to provoke a reaction of the two, not because i seriously believed there was one. About Nova_Terra and me: Yes, I do agree with some stuff Nova_Terra wrote, but not with all. No, I do not trust him. I don't trust anyone in this game so far. Yes, we can find connections between people and link mafias together, but for that to work we first need to find mafia, so this should be our top priority. And no, I will not blindly lynch someone only because he agreed at several points with scum. These possible links we have in the thread so far are rather weak. It is possible they exist, but it is also very possible they don't. I also never intended to push a lynch on Gossemerr today, I really wanted to get rid of a lurker (which we did with Eleanthas, although he was not one of the heavy ones). I feel Nova_Terra is an extremely eager Town who jumps to conclusion a little bit too fast. I currently doubt that he is scum, solely because I think scum would not behave that offensively. On the other side, it could be on purpose, and you see I'm going all WIFOM now, so I'll drop. I don't trust him, but some things he said made sense for me. Gossemerr: Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 16:03 Gossemerr wrote:
Okay two peeps did not vote - either going to be replaced or killed. I'm guessing that if they were scum they would be participating, well at least vote. I have to say that I'm pretty confident that both are not mafia - so that means probably 2 people whom are actually contributing to the discussion are indeed mafia. Kinda adding to that, so far we have mislynched two town that were lurkers. While it is not that big of deal since they didn't help much, our numbers are dropping fast. This is wrong. Two people stopped playing completely, either because they lost interest or something in real life keeps them busy. This does NOT tell us anything about their alignement. They could be mafia, vanilla townies or blues, who knows. (Or are you seriously implying that after (for example) someone from my family had a heavy accident, I would be more inclined to play on in this game if I was mafia than if I was town? In such a situation, this game here is irrelevant, no matter what my alignement is). Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 16:03 Gossemerr wrote:
Too me this is really not a defence, just attacks me for my lack of analysis. I never said I was doing more, I never said I was not a hypocrite. But the fact that I didn't really contribute a ton of analysis untill that post does not invalidate my post. you are in a game where people try to find out the motives of others by reading, analyzing and judging their posts. What do you think is going to happen when you are a hypocrite in such a game? Yes, you get a scummy label really fast. Also, if you are not contributing, people will assume you try to hide something, which agains means you get a scummy label. Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 16:03 Gossemerr wrote:
How in the world could understanding how the mafia are thinking be bad for us town? If we can accurately figure out why the mafia killed whom they did we can link it back to the individuals involved. Its a integral part of the analysis. If we just ignored all of the night phases and focused only on the outcomes of lynches that would be terrible. In fact that would be what the scum would want from us - to effectively lose half of the game's information. To not worry about their motives and to fight about the mis-lynches. I agree that the staight up kills can be misleading, but thats where the ANALYSIS comes in. I am going to do this just once, and I hope we can burry this afterwards. So what are the possible reasons sbrubbles was killed? - Nova_Terra is scum, he felt the heat and mafia decided to get rid of sbrubbles - Nova_Terra is town, mafia wants to mess with us and decided to get rid of one of Nova_Terras attackers, sbrubbles - Sbrubbles was half-lurking, and since mafia knows he is town, they fear he might be a blue. - Or it was something completely different that I can not think up right now. So we have now 3 options with completely different motivations. I have my opinions about this too, and I think it was the third option (because scum normally tries to kill of blues as fast as possible). But we can not know for sure. If we want to know more, we lynch Nova_Terra next, but if he is town, that was a blatant mislynch and puts us in a far worse position. And even then, we still will not know if they killed bubbles because he was blue or because they wanted to mess with us. And I haven't even started what it means if Nova_Terra would get killed tonight by mafia. Also, how are you gonna analyze the motives of scum if you do not even know who they are? You do not know for sure who is scum, so you can only try to analyze posts from people you think are scum, and if they are not, you'll just produce bad results. Perhaps if we lynched a scum, you can go back through is filter and look for hints for the nightkills, but until then, it's all WIFOM. This is so much WIFOM that it is not worth wasting time on it. And as you are already quite busy (as you wrote earlier), it would be better if you concentrated on finding scum through analysis of posts. Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 16:03 Gossemerr wrote:
Also, I guess my suspicion that Ele wasn't any more scummy than others was right.. But you voted him anyway, so what?
^^Wants WIFOM to stop, says lurkers motives has no connection to their alignment, connections are useless until we find a scum. States he specifically does not trust Nova. Though seems more suspicious of Gossemerr, disagrees with most of what he says, and questions his voting patterns at the end.
Last post before the night just states we still have blues and the town can still win this.
Overall Analysis:
I think the first cycle doesn't have much to do with his death because most flipped green/ he didn't get hit that night. So onto the second cycle. Brings up the Ele/Goss connection, disagrees with Goss pretty hard. Seems less agreeable with Nova than early game states he doesn't trust him. Usually mafia seem to hit people that they find a threat, so even though its WIFOM discussion mafia actions in my opinion doesn't hurt. At this point looking at the reasons Phagga was killed, I am pretty sure that either Nova_Terra or Gossemerr is scum. But NOT both.
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EBWOP: The above is NOT a full case, its just getting the Why did Phagga get hit? Analysis out of the way. I think the information I stated above can be used to supplement a case, but at this point I think we need more evidence than the above to make the Lynch as we desperatly need it.
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@ Velinath
You're welcome, and i'm glad we got some information out of it.
I am slightly less suspicious than i was about Gosse, due to the Ele flip, but at this point i am really not sure who to vote.
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On March 18 2012 00:43 Nova_Terra wrote:
@ Velinath
You're welcome, and i'm glad we got some information out of it.
I am slightly less suspicious than i was about Gosse, due to the Ele flip, but at this point i am really not sure who to vote.
I think you missed the context of the post, specifically the part where I called your "case" yesterday bad and only serving the purpose of distracting town.
Go make a real case. I still think you're probably scum. Prove me wrong by actually filtering someone and analyzing - until you do that I have no reason to begin to trust you
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No, i missed nothing from the post, and could have easily made sense. and it didnt distract the town, as we were already on that idea, and i at least got us all to rally and try for a good vote.
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EBWOP: and my *case* could have etc.
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No, your case had no support and was based on weak relationships (or non-relationships, if you'd like to look at it that way) between three different players, two of which you can't really analyze in the way that you did because they lurked for insane amounts of time. It made no sense, looking from a logical perspective. You rallied votes to a townie, and I believe you did so intentionally.
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It was supported by their filters and even though it was based off of relationships i feel that it did bring up some good points. and it did make sense looking from a logical perspective. It was faulty in that i had confirmation bias and was sure i was right, and therefore read into it too hard.
I have been going through filters for the past couple hours and am having trouble attempting to make a case, especially with 2 lurkers that we cant really vote as they are gonna be replaced.
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Your case would have been stronger if you had dropped the relationship angle and put more effort into post analysis. When you say it was based off of filters, I believe a more correct wording would be "barely based off of filters". You spent your time analyzing what you admitted were very small filters: "Ele and Gossemerr had been semi lurking, posting barely any content. InfernO is a hardcore lurker."
You then led the mislynch which essentially made your entire case completely worthless and blows any "relationship analysis" completely out of the water. Waste of town time, and focusing town energy away from scumhunting.
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@ Janaan:
I didn't say to only use WIFOM. Let me clear this up. After a night kill we can look back through the filters and enumerate possible reasons that said person was murdered. I don't see how trying to understand the motives of the scum, coupled with post-based arguements is bad idea.
To your other point, how exactly am I getting people to do my dirty work? I didn't really ask any questions. I made an argument, which I thought was logical, and it was not well received.
Also, pretty much all of your current in game analysis has been to call people out for WIFOM seemingly just to discredit them, or as said by others, to get other people to answer your questions.
SO, Janaan will you please tell us what your TOP TWO scum suspects are at the current moment? Thanks
Also at the Vel vs. Nova case:
I agree with basically all of Vels points; however, I kinda of feel like Nova is just playing badly. He just seems emotional and may not be thinking clearly all the time. He was very wrong with the Ele thing, but so were others. His case was pretty weak too, so its not like he was able to convice everyone to vote for Ele when we should not have been. I am no hypocrite here, I voted for Ele, but mainly because he was lurker soooo hard, and didn't even try to defend himself.
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ebwop:
Forgot to talk about the conclusion of mem's analysis:
I don't really know what to say here, me a Phagga definitely disagreed, but I don't see how I could be scum.
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On March 18 2012 03:27 Gossemerr wrote:
Also at the Vel vs. Nova case:
I agree with basically all of Vels points; however, I kinda of feel like Nova is just playing badly. He just seems emotional and may not be thinking clearly all the time. He was very wrong with the Ele thing, but so were others. His case was pretty weak too, so its not like he was able to convice everyone to vote for Ele when we should not have been. I am no hypocrite here, I voted for Ele, but mainly because he was lurker soooo hard, and didn't even try to defend himself.
How do scumtells indicate bad play instead of scum?
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On March 18 2012 03:30 Gossemerr wrote:
ebwop:
Forgot to talk about the conclusion of mem's analysis:
I don't really know what to say here, me a Phagga definitely disagreed, but I don't see how I could be scum.
I said either you or Nova was scum, not both. Im not convinced on which one yet tho. Gotta re-read
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On March 18 2012 03:27 Gossemerr wrote:
@ Janaan:
I didn't say to only use WIFOM. Let me clear this up. After a night kill we can look back through the filters and enumerate possible reasons that said person was murdered. I don't see how trying to understand the motives of the scum, coupled with post-based arguements is bad idea. 1.
To your other point, how exactly am I getting people to do my dirty work? I didn't really ask any questions. I made an argument, which I thought was logical, and it was not well received. 2.
Also, pretty much all of your current in game analysis has been to call people out for WIFOM seemingly just to discredit them, or as said by others, to get other people to answer your questions. 3.
SO, Janaan will you please tell us what your TOP TWO scum suspects are at the current moment? Thanks
Also at the Vel vs. Nova case:
I agree with basically all of Vels points; however, I kinda of feel like Nova is just playing badly. He just seems emotional and may not be thinking clearly all the time. He was very wrong with the Ele thing, but so were others. His case was pretty weak too, so its not like he was able to convice everyone to vote for Ele when we should not have been. I am no hypocrite here, I voted for Ele, but mainly because he was lurker soooo hard, and didn't even try to defend himself.
1. Ok, maybe I misunderstood what you were saying. I still don't like using WIFOM to create cases, but if that's not what you're trying to do, then good.
2. My point was that you barely mentioned me in the post I quoted, then tacked on to the end that you found me suspicious and then left, saying people should pay more attention to me, which you yourself have not done. That's all.
3. I'm not trying to "discredit" people, I just don't want to take the risk of a lynch based off of bad logic. So I point it out when I see it. I don't know why you have such a big problem with that.
My top two scum suspects:
I definitely think that it's possible that Nova is scum. It's also possible that he's just playing bad, but sometimes, if a player looks like a scum, and smells like a scum, he just might be a scum.
I still think that Koritora looked scummy. If a replacement comes in, I'll be paying very close attention to him.
The trouble is, now that we're so close to LYLO, we really can't afford to make a mistake here. Especially with Koritora, my read isn't strong enough to justify lynching him right now.
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aha, it seems like i will likely be lynched.
If anyone has any questions for me to answer, shoot.
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On March 18 2012 05:35 Nova_Terra wrote:
aha, it seems like i will likely be lynched.
If anyone has any questions for me to answer, shoot.
give scumreads with associated cases like i asked you to earlier today
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1. I think that i defended your case decently
2. I hate lurkers ruining the game so damn much
3. town reads: Nova_Terra Janaan, Mementoss
null: inferno, kori, veli
leaning scum: seviro, gosse
yeah yeah im attempting a case later on
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Yeah Lurkers are ruining the game so bad its so hard to put anything together still and its Day 3 QQ
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On March 18 2012 17:48 Nova_Terra wrote:
1. I think that i defended your case decently
2. I hate lurkers ruining the game so damn much
3. town reads: Nova_Terra Janaan, Mementoss
null: inferno, kori, veli
leaning scum: seviro, gosse
yeah yeah im attempting a case later on
gonna have a case before lynch time? cause otherwise you're still by FAR the most suspicious person in my eyes
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Seviro
Seviro starts the game off by posting analysis regarding lynching day 1. He also says that he is 100% against a random lynch.
On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though
His next post attacks my FOS, but agrees that it is suspicious of cosine.
On March 12 2012 04:43 Seviro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 04:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Isnt that exactly what i said? i just want him to start posting and defend himself. I dont/didnt consider FOS a big commitment, sorry if i confused anyone and made it seem like i was gonna vote him. i still think hes totally suspicious for all the things i just said.
Yeah sorry, I just thought that FOS someoned base on a single post was a bit over reacting but I understand that you were in fact just stating that he was suspicious and as the day pass I agree more and more since he didn't post since then. Right now it's hard to make a decision though because there is many people that didn't post yet or if they did they just stated their position on the "no lynch/random lynch topics". We need more contribution to not make a mistake on our first lynch (if we decide to lynch that is)
Essentially says that FOS based on 1 post is suspicious but agrees with me that he was suspicious for not posting, which was my entire point in the FOS
Then goes on to state that its hard to make a decision due to inactivity, then states that more contribution is needed
His next post then states the obvious that cosine is getting more and more suspicious as time passes, more fluff
After this he does some more analysis on lynching/vs no lynching. Bringing up more not so important issues. Then he feels the need to clarify his first post to make sure we aren’t thinking that he doesn’t want a lynch day 1 and explains it as him wanting to make sure we discuss it first.
Then he agrees with a FirmTofu lynch and notes his own suspicions on him, further adding to the bandwagon. Then adds “helpful” fluff making sure that people vote right.
In his next post, he brings up koritora being contradictory, possibly trying to make him seem a bit suspicious. Then expresses sadness at tofu dying, and states finally that we should wait for the mafia kill to get information (leading up to his next post maybe?).
+ Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 14:13 Seviro wrote:GG sbrubbles, be sure that we'll avenge your death. At first I was like why kill him, he was not really active, did not really help the town the first day and I didn't see him being a threat for anyone. Now after looking at his filter, his death give me some pointers. First, only 2 post of him contain some sort of analysis/suspicion. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate.
Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything. In both of them, he state his suspicion on the early behaviour of Nova_Terra, maybe he was on something here. So I looked up Nova_Terra's filter and noticed so good thing. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him. Then he add to not "discredit his post by calling it inexperience/carelessness" where in fact Scrubbles was in fact only giving him some sort of excuse for what he posted earlier. As Scrubbles said, being defensive over such a small thing is suspicious to me. He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot. He then tell why he thinks Scrubbles post was suspicous. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. Show nested quote +1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him. Show nested quote +2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion. He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet. See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do. Show nested quote +4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification. Show nested quote +As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. So well at this point pretty self-explanatory. Finally I will quote myself. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 08:36 Seviro wrote:Oh god i'm late to the party today, Real life can be a whore Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 06:34 Nova_Terra wrote:
Okay, gossemerr, read the post above. I dont feel that a lynch on firmtofu will have any non-town results.
This is not trying to lynch you. I apologise for being so wishy washy and understand why people may not like this decision.
Unvote: FirmTofu
Vote: Gossemerr
I think you would be better voting for a no lynch because voting randomly for someone like this seems a bit scummy in my opinion but i guess you just didn't notice that you could just vote no lynch I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course) and that kind of worked. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote:So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:57 Eleanthas wrote:Ok. Sorry for not responding. Saw discussion towards me at school with my phone, but really hard to write anything with it so decided to wait untill I come home. Anyway have been busy atm. Will change now. 1So what Can i say about first post. It was really just a post to tell people I'm alive. In some forums, you get replaced if you don't speak on first half of day, so I guess I followed that rule there. Had really nothing to say. Just plain stupid first post from me. 2About Nova_Terra: He seems eager to accuse anybody scum if given even a small chance. I guess he is trying to presure players to talk to get discussion going on. Doesn't seem too scummy for me, but have to keep eye on him. 3So what I think about InfernOokami7: On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead. beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him. 4And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him. 5
##Vote FirmTofu 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:
I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova. So Nova_Terra I can't wait for your answers. That said, I'm going to bed ##Big FOS:Nova_Terra
Seviro constructs a WIFOM case to make me seem suspicious and to mislead us after leading up to it with his “waiting for mafia kill” post. Then he makes sure to note to phagga that he is analyzing, like a “see im doing something useful” gesture. Then he pulls the “Im new that’s why I didn’t know WIFOM was bad” card when his case wasn’t received as well as it could have been. He later states that the case on lurkers is a “hard one” as we cannot tell if they are town or scum. Oh really?
Then he agrees that the Im new kind of post isn’t okay.
Then he provides a reason for him not voting yet, in essence providing a reason for not pointing a finger yet.
Then, suddenly, Seviro uses Backwards WIFOM, suddenly understanding the exact opposite side to the case he had made versus me, and uses it to put down Ele, another townie, as his vote.
Then he posts fluff on how he messed up on math.
On March 16 2012 05:51 Seviro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 04:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
@ Velinath
I put my vote onto Gossemerr because i find that in his posts, he is the most dangerous player out of the three. I find that his posting has some qualities that make his arguments seem plausible and valid, and shares his ideas/information (when he has any) in the most comprehensive manner out of the three, which is why i find him more dangerous. While I agree on that, I feel like if he flips town we would lose a big contibutor of the town whereas if we lynch Eleanthas there is 2 possibilities: 1. he flips Town and we lose a semi-lurker that didn't help the town at all since the start of the game 2. He turns out to be indeed scum which then we can safely say that Gossemer is most likely a scum as well. I feel like Eleanthas is the safest lynch for today, hence my vote. As for the third possible scum, I don't have a clue yet but if these two are indeed scum that would make it much more easier to find him based on their post.
Now he pulls something interesting. He doesn’t want to lynch gossemerr because we would lose a big contributor to the town instead of a lurker, and that if Ele turned scum, Gosse was likely scum. Imagine this from a scum point of view, if Seviro was scum. Seviro could be saying that he wants to lynch a townie instead of his mafia ally, Gossemerr. and not only in a way that excuses him voting for ele, in a way that makes Gosse seem more innocent when Ele flips town.
He further defends Gosse moderately in his next post.
He defends Gosse voting Janaan even more in the post after that,
On March 16 2012 06:52 Seviro wrote:EBWOP It's seem like I missed a part of my post. Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 06:13 Nova_Terra wrote:
@ seviro, i think the same reasoning applies to Gosse. Take a look at his filter; he really isnt a big contributor. at all. he barely has more posts than ele, and spreads doubt regarding members of the town better.
in those 2 cases:
1. he flips town and we lose a semi lurker whos best case is just a few lines suspecting janaan without much reason to back it up
2. he turns out to be a scum which means we can assume that ele is scum as well, which likely makes inferno a scum.
I agree with either of the two as a lynch target, but there is something to be said for eliminating the more dangerous player first.
I will be on for another ~30 minutes where i can answer questions or change my vote (between those 2). Sorry for any typos, typing on an ipad. Show nested quote +1. he flips town and we lose a semi lurker whos best case is just a few lines suspecting janaan without much reason to back it up Well to be fair I think he had somthing to back it up. First, he point out that Janaan bring up his suspicion on Koritora after the lynch has been done. Had he post that before the end of the day that could have saved FirmTofu. Also the fact that Janaan wrote his post suspecting Koritora right after the night post as if he wanted to lead the discussion. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 14:06 Janaan wrote:GG FirmTofu I think we need to use this night phase to get some cases rolling. We don't have much to go on as far as cases go from Day 1, so we've got our work cut out for us. One thing I noticed from the votes that I found very interesting was Koritora's No Lynch vote. Here's one of his early posts: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Then he turns around and: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 09:37 koritora wrote:
Well besides the fact FirmTofu has only made talk about lynching a lurker, there isn't really much else to go on. Same case can be made for InfernoOkami7. But since either hasn't spoken up lately, I can only assume they are lurking and that puts my vote up in the air for these two unless they come and contribute something meaningful. But as of the moment, I can't decide between the two and therefore going with a no lynch.
##Vote: No Lynch First he says that he's suspicious of anyone who is against lynching on day 1. Then he's all of a sudden against lynching on day 1? This seems like a huge contradiction to me. Is it possible that he's trying to take away suspicion since he didn't vote for the mislynch? I'm not sure, but it's definitely possible. I think he's definitely worth a closer look. Then, in his vote post he seem to agree with my case on you and found it strange that Jaanan protect you like this. While these accusation are debatable, I don't think that he had no reason to vote on Janaan whereas Eleanthas is much more a semi-lurker as he never really stated his own opinion about anything.
And then continues to explain why voting janaan could have made sense in his next.
And continues to edit his posting on why janaan could be mafia.
He then jumps on board the Nova Scummy again train, and shows again his suspicions for me.
Enjoy, this is also why I found Gosse leaning scum, partnered to the points in my earlier case that were not based on connections.
I was tempted to vote for no lynch, but as I am starting to think that there may be no dt, it would just prolong our doom, I am afraid, and so, I will vote based on this case and my gut feelings.
##Vote: Seviro
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Also i think Velinath is trying to provoke a OMGUS reaction that has sadly been present in my play so far. Which would not look favorably on me. Not sure what he is trying to do with it, still unsure as to his status as town/mafia.
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On March 19 2012 04:15 Nova_Terra wrote:
Also i think Velinath is trying to provoke a OMGUS reaction that has sadly been present in my play so far. Which would not look favorably on me. Not sure what he is trying to do with it, still unsure as to his status as town/mafia.
Nope, wasn't trying to provoke anything. I was trying to get you to post something of value, which you did. I'll read through things.
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ebwop people are lurking so hard that I doubt we'll get any lynch at all today but I'm glad you posted a case
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##Unvote: Nova_Terra
I'll make up my mind on whether that's going back on NT or to someone else after I refilter Sev.
That said it's 5-3 and the fact that NT wants to no lynch today especially since if both lurkers end up modkilled and flip town + a no lynch = auto scum win (barring a so-far-nonexistent miracle medic save) is scummy to me
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I see reasonable evidence that lurkers will not be modkilled as i have seen a post or two from people who would replace, and i think that our hosts would not let it end like that . And i do not want a no lynch as i am no longer sure of a DT.
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Nova: your last case on Seviro is almost entirely WIFOM, just saying, although I can semi-agree with some of your points.
On March 18 2012 17:48 Nova_Terra wrote:
1. I think that i defended your case decently
2. I hate lurkers ruining the game so damn much
3. town reads: Nova_Terra Janaan, Mementoss
null: inferno, kori, veli
leaning scum: seviro, gosse
Janaan Case
NT, I have no idea how Janaan can have a town read. If anything he is null. Read through the filter and you will understand. Janaan has offered basically nothing to the ENTIRE thread that is new and worth reading. So far every vote by him has been following the rest with only a short blurb of an explanation.
On March 16 2012 08:23 Janaan wrote:
I find it interesting how Eleanthas just now came into the thread and, even with accusations and people voting against him, he still just posted enough to get his vote out for the day and left immediately. No defense, no nothing. It makes him look scummier to me. Since it doesn't look like a Koritora lynch will happen today, Eleanthas looks just as scummy right now, and as a general rule I dislike no lynches when there's a decent vote candidate:
##Unvote: Koritora
##Vote: Eleanthas
Moving on, NT and Janaan still appear to agree ALOT. I.E.: Janaan said seviro was scummy a while ago, and never really thinks NT is scum. I had my suspicions that NT, Phagga, and Janaan were linked. With Phagga being hit, maybe they wanted to distance themselves and shut me down. This is completely WIFOM, but just thinking here that it could be entirely possible.
On March 15 2012 03:26 Janaan wrote:
Nova_Terra, I don't really know what to think about you, to be honest. It seems like you're trying to be active and helpful, but things like your defense of your actions on day 1 being very defensive and emotionally charged don't quite sit right with me. Neutral for the moment.
Seviro actually looks a bit scummy to me, not enough to come out with any sort of case on him, but I'm keeping close watch on him. Bits like
I already brought up the Koritora thing, which nobody seemed to care about. Ill hide it here if anyone cares to read it again.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 08:36 Gossemerr wrote:There is not much action going on so it is kinda hard to read anyone. Only thing that pops out at me is Janaan talking about the days votes after its already over. Earlier he said he would keep watch on the thread, and koritora posted the no lynch vote only a few minutes after his (Janaan's) last post. Kinda scummy imo to bring this up after the fact. Either way I agree with the analysis, just weird timing. Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 14:06 Janaan wrote:GG FirmTofu I think we need to use this night phase to get some cases rolling. We don't have much to go on as far as cases go from Day 1, so we've got our work cut out for us. One thing I noticed from the votes that I found very interesting was Koritora's No Lynch vote. Here's one of his early posts: On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Then he turns around and: On March 13 2012 09:37 koritora wrote:
Well besides the fact FirmTofu has only made talk about lynching a lurker, there isn't really much else to go on. Same case can be made for InfernoOkami7. But since either hasn't spoken up lately, I can only assume they are lurking and that puts my vote up in the air for these two unless they come and contribute something meaningful. But as of the moment, I can't decide between the two and therefore going with a no lynch.
##Vote: No Lynch First he says that he's suspicious of anyone who is against lynching on day 1. Then he's all of a sudden against lynching on day 1? This seems like a huge contradiction to me. Is it possible that he's trying to take away suspicion since he didn't vote for the mislynch? I'm not sure, but it's definitely possible. I think he's definitely worth a closer look.
and
+ Show Spoiler + On March 15 2012 08:27 Gossemerr wrote:Considering this is a newbie game, wouldn't mafia likely to be outspoken and "contributing"? With something to prove? "Hey don't suspect me im contributing" type of deal. I find it hard to believe that a scum would just not post for this long now - certainly with all this pressure; and especially when there are three of them, and are most likely (don't see how they wouldn't be) communicating with each other by some other means to coordinate. To that notion, the play by Janaan is concerning to me. I made a point in an eariler post about the focus he / she put on Kori's vote after the fact, which was kinda late. Now he / she counters almost every point Seviro makes in his / her latest post - seemingly to dismiss or discredit the analysis. Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 03:26 Janaan wrote:On March 14 2012 22:32 Nova_Terra wrote:
Meanwhile, I would also like to draw a bit of attention to Janaan.
As i was looking through his filter, i often saw a trend. he would post something questioning somebody else, to get their reads on everything, and then not post much about his thoughts. Also, as a way of avoiding posting much about his own thoughts, he would say that nothing seems to have changed, or something of the sort.
Janaan, I would love it if you could make a post explaining your reads on people so far. too much happens by way of your posts and not enough happens that questions your posts.
Note that this is not an FOS. At the moment, there's been so much limited activity, I'm finding it hard to get decent reads off. I'm still waiting for an answer from Koritora, but at the moment, he's my best scum read for the reasons that I presented earlier. Phagga is looking pretty townie to me, his posts make a lot of sense to me and seem to have the right intentions behind them. Nova_Terra, I don't really know what to think about you, to be honest. It seems like you're trying to be active and helpful, but things like your defense of your actions on day 1 being very defensive and emotionally charged don't quite sit right with me. Neutral for the moment. Seviro actually looks a bit scummy to me, not enough to come out with any sort of case on him, but I'm keeping close watch on him. Moving on, there is a fishy link between Janaan, Phagga, and Nova_Terra. Nova's behavior has already been discussed so not going to bring that up here, but Phagga has not really has yet to been focused. He /she has yet to really offer any analysis except one post a few hours after the day 2 post, in which he / she focuses only on the people who voted for FirmTofu, and doing so dismisses Janaan rather easily as town. While on the issue of voting, he constantly wants to talk about the people who are lurking, but there is realy nothing to talk about considering that they are lurking.. Seems scummy to me to keep the town going in circles and wasting hours of actual analysis. Of course the lurkers could be mafia, but really nothing new here. Janaan also wants to lynch the lurkers, and easily agrees with Phagga. My money is on Janaan right now unless something else comes up. He is saying just enough to get by, without saying anything really at all. ##Vote: Janaan
Finally, in one of my last posts I asked Janaan to please tell us his top two scum suspects. His response to me is apprehensive, as if he does not want to give out any names. Nova is obvious, given the heat on him at the current time. But even here he can't say that Nova is scum with any sort of certainty. The second person he brings up is Kori, who has not said a thing since like day 1. But sorta of counters himself by saying that he wouldn't lynch him. This appears to me as scummy behavior - not wanting to point anyone out.
On March 18 2012 04:58 Janaan wrote:
My top two scum suspects:
I definitely think that it's possible that Nova is scum. It's also possible that he's just playing bad, but sometimes, if a player looks like a scum, and smells like a scum, he just might be a scum.
I still think that Koritora looked scummy. If a replacement comes in, I'll be paying very close attention to him.
The trouble is, now that we're so close to LYLO, we really can't afford to make a mistake here. Especially with Koritora, my read isn't strong enough to justify lynching him right now.
In conclusion, I obviously am still very suspicious of Janaan and Nova. So, I am fine with a lynch of either. In my mind there is just not a strong enough case against Seviro for him to be lynched today.
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actually gossemerr's case does make a lot of sense, and i agree that janaan should have pointed more of a finger at me after that case. However at this point i will stick with my case.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 19 2012 04:14 Nova_Terra wrote:SeviroSeviro starts the game off by posting analysis regarding lynching day 1. He also says that he is 100% against a random lynch. Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though His next post attacks my FOS, but agrees that it is suspicious of cosine. Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 04:43 Seviro wrote:On March 12 2012 04:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Isnt that exactly what i said? i just want him to start posting and defend himself. I dont/didnt consider FOS a big commitment, sorry if i confused anyone and made it seem like i was gonna vote him. i still think hes totally suspicious for all the things i just said.
Yeah sorry, I just thought that FOS someoned base on a single post was a bit over reacting but I understand that you were in fact just stating that he was suspicious and as the day pass I agree more and more since he didn't post since then. Right now it's hard to make a decision though because there is many people that didn't post yet or if they did they just stated their position on the "no lynch/random lynch topics". We need more contribution to not make a mistake on our first lynch (if we decide to lynch that is) Essentially says that FOS based on 1 post is suspicious but agrees with me that he was suspicious for not posting, which was my entire point in the FOS Then goes on to state that its hard to make a decision due to inactivity, then states that more contribution is needed His next post then states the obvious that cosine is getting more and more suspicious as time passes, more fluff After this he does some more analysis on lynching/vs no lynching. Bringing up more not so important issues. Then he feels the need to clarify his first post to make sure we aren’t thinking that he doesn’t want a lynch day 1 and explains it as him wanting to make sure we discuss it first. Then he agrees with a FirmTofu lynch and notes his own suspicions on him, further adding to the bandwagon. Then adds “helpful” fluff making sure that people vote right. In his next post, he brings up koritora being contradictory, possibly trying to make him seem a bit suspicious. Then expresses sadness at tofu dying, and states finally that we should wait for the mafia kill to get information (leading up to his next post maybe?). + Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 14:13 Seviro wrote:GG sbrubbles, be sure that we'll avenge your death. At first I was like why kill him, he was not really active, did not really help the town the first day and I didn't see him being a threat for anyone. Now after looking at his filter, his death give me some pointers. First, only 2 post of him contain some sort of analysis/suspicion. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate.
Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything. In both of them, he state his suspicion on the early behaviour of Nova_Terra, maybe he was on something here. So I looked up Nova_Terra's filter and noticed so good thing. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him. Then he add to not "discredit his post by calling it inexperience/carelessness" where in fact Scrubbles was in fact only giving him some sort of excuse for what he posted earlier. As Scrubbles said, being defensive over such a small thing is suspicious to me. He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot. He then tell why he thinks Scrubbles post was suspicous. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote:
Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. Show nested quote +1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him. Show nested quote +2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion. He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet. See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do. Show nested quote +4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification. Show nested quote +As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. So well at this point pretty self-explanatory. Finally I will quote myself. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 08:36 Seviro wrote:Oh god i'm late to the party today, Real life can be a whore Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 06:34 Nova_Terra wrote:
Okay, gossemerr, read the post above. I dont feel that a lynch on firmtofu will have any non-town results.
This is not trying to lynch you. I apologise for being so wishy washy and understand why people may not like this decision.
Unvote: FirmTofu
Vote: Gossemerr
I think you would be better voting for a no lynch because voting randomly for someone like this seems a bit scummy in my opinion but i guess you just didn't notice that you could just vote no lynch I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course) and that kind of worked. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote:So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:57 Eleanthas wrote:Ok. Sorry for not responding. Saw discussion towards me at school with my phone, but really hard to write anything with it so decided to wait untill I come home. Anyway have been busy atm. Will change now. 1So what Can i say about first post. It was really just a post to tell people I'm alive. In some forums, you get replaced if you don't speak on first half of day, so I guess I followed that rule there. Had really nothing to say. Just plain stupid first post from me. 2About Nova_Terra: He seems eager to accuse anybody scum if given even a small chance. I guess he is trying to presure players to talk to get discussion going on. Doesn't seem too scummy for me, but have to keep eye on him. 3So what I think about InfernOokami7: On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote:
I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead. beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him. 4And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him. 5
##Vote FirmTofu 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote:
I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova. So Nova_Terra I can't wait for your answers. That said, I'm going to bed ##Big FOS:Nova_Terra Seviro constructs a WIFOM case to make me seem suspicious and to mislead us after leading up to it with his “waiting for mafia kill” post. Then he makes sure to note to phagga that he is analyzing, like a “see im doing something useful” gesture. Then he pulls the “Im new that’s why I didn’t know WIFOM was bad” card when his case wasn’t received as well as it could have been. He later states that the case on lurkers is a “hard one” as we cannot tell if they are town or scum. Oh really? Then he agrees that the Im new kind of post isn’t okay. Then he provides a reason for him not voting yet, in essence providing a reason for not pointing a finger yet. Then, suddenly, Seviro uses Backwards WIFOM, suddenly understanding the exact opposite side to the case he had made versus me, and uses it to put down Ele, another townie, as his vote. Then he posts fluff on how he messed up on math. Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 05:51 Seviro wrote:On March 16 2012 04:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
@ Velinath
I put my vote onto Gossemerr because i find that in his posts, he is the most dangerous player out of the three. I find that his posting has some qualities that make his arguments seem plausible and valid, and shares his ideas/information (when he has any) in the most comprehensive manner out of the three, which is why i find him more dangerous. While I agree on that, I feel like if he flips town we would lose a big contibutor of the town whereas if we lynch Eleanthas there is 2 possibilities: 1. he flips Town and we lose a semi-lurker that didn't help the town at all since the start of the game 2. He turns out to be indeed scum which then we can safely say that Gossemer is most likely a scum as well. I feel like Eleanthas is the safest lynch for today, hence my vote. As for the third possible scum, I don't have a clue yet but if these two are indeed scum that would make it much more easier to find him based on their post. Now he pulls something interesting. He doesn’t want to lynch gossemerr because we would lose a big contributor to the town instead of a lurker, and that if Ele turned scum, Gosse was likely scum. Imagine this from a scum point of view, if Seviro was scum. Seviro could be saying that he wants to lynch a townie instead of his mafia ally, Gossemerr. and not only in a way that excuses him voting for ele, in a way that makes Gosse seem more innocent when Ele flips town. He further defends Gosse moderately in his next post. He defends Gosse voting Janaan even more in the post after that, Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 06:52 Seviro wrote:EBWOP It's seem like I missed a part of my post. On March 16 2012 06:13 Nova_Terra wrote:
@ seviro, i think the same reasoning applies to Gosse. Take a look at his filter; he really isnt a big contributor. at all. he barely has more posts than ele, and spreads doubt regarding members of the town better.
in those 2 cases:
1. he flips town and we lose a semi lurker whos best case is just a few lines suspecting janaan without much reason to back it up
2. he turns out to be a scum which means we can assume that ele is scum as well, which likely makes inferno a scum.
I agree with either of the two as a lynch target, but there is something to be said for eliminating the more dangerous player first.
I will be on for another ~30 minutes where i can answer questions or change my vote (between those 2). Sorry for any typos, typing on an ipad. 1. he flips town and we lose a semi lurker whos best case is just a few lines suspecting janaan without much reason to back it up Well to be fair I think he had somthing to back it up. First, he point out that Janaan bring up his suspicion on Koritora after the lynch has been done. Had he post that before the end of the day that could have saved FirmTofu. Also the fact that Janaan wrote his post suspecting Koritora right after the night post as if he wanted to lead the discussion. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 14:06 Janaan wrote:GG FirmTofu I think we need to use this night phase to get some cases rolling. We don't have much to go on as far as cases go from Day 1, so we've got our work cut out for us. One thing I noticed from the votes that I found very interesting was Koritora's No Lynch vote. Here's one of his early posts: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote:
However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Then he turns around and: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 09:37 koritora wrote:
Well besides the fact FirmTofu has only made talk about lynching a lurker, there isn't really much else to go on. Same case can be made for InfernoOkami7. But since either hasn't spoken up lately, I can only assume they are lurking and that puts my vote up in the air for these two unless they come and contribute something meaningful. But as of the moment, I can't decide between the two and therefore going with a no lynch.
##Vote: No Lynch First he says that he's suspicious of anyone who is against lynching on day 1. Then he's all of a sudden against lynching on day 1? This seems like a huge contradiction to me. Is it possible that he's trying to take away suspicion since he didn't vote for the mislynch? I'm not sure, but it's definitely possible. I think he's definitely worth a closer look. Then, in his vote post he seem to agree with my case on you and found it strange that Jaanan protect you like this. While these accusation are debatable, I don't think that he had no reason to vote on Janaan whereas Eleanthas is much more a semi-lurker as he never really stated his own opinion about anything. And then continues to explain why voting janaan could have made sense in his next. And continues to edit his posting on why janaan could be mafia. He then jumps on board the Nova Scummy again train, and shows again his suspicions for me. Enjoy, this is also why I found Gosse leaning scum, partnered to the points in my earlier case that were not based on connections. I was tempted to vote for no lynch, but as I am starting to think that there may be no dt, it would just prolong our doom, I am afraid, and so, I will vote based on this case and my gut feelings. ##Vote: Seviro
Wow, that is a good case on me, you literraly just copy pasted almost all my filter and just said what I did in the part you quoted.
The only part where you kind of add something is
Now he pulls something interesting. He doesn’t want to lynch gossemerr because we would lose a big contributor to the town instead of a lurker, and that if Ele turned scum, Gosse was likely scum. Imagine this from a scum point of view, if Seviro was scum. Seviro could be saying that he wants to lynch a townie instead of his mafia ally, Gossemerr. and not only in a way that excuses him voting for ele, in a way that makes Gosse seem more innocent when Ele flips town.
He further defends Gosse moderately in his next post.
He defends Gosse voting Janaan even more in the post after that,
I will still say it once again, in my eyes, if both were town, Eleanthas was less hurtful to lynch than Gossemer since at least Gosse had done some sort of analysis at this point, not much but more than Ele. Basically, everytime Eleanthas was posting he was answering a question that someone posted like 1 and a half day ago and he was completely ignoring the current conversation. So i'll say it again, Eleanthas was the safest lynch between those two.
And then continues to explain why voting janaan could have made sense in his next.
And continues to edit his posting on why janaan could be mafia.
He then jumps on board the Nova Scummy again train, and shows again his suspicions for me.
You were saying that I was wrong to vote on Eleanthas since you said that Gosse was lurking as much as him and that his only case had no back up. I defended Gosse on this point to show you that you were wrong.
Other than that, you post while big has nothing in it. You never say why you think this or that is scummy you are just summing up all my posting since the start of the game to put some emphasis on me. I see that as a last resort from a scum that has only few hours to live.
Now I am 100% sure, you are a Scum
##Vote: Nova_Terra
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I'm down with this.
##Vote: Nova_Terra
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Initially I was between Nova_Terra and Gossemerr, and I still stand by the point that if Nova flips scum Goss is town. Right now I feel like I'm more between Nova_Terra and Janaan. However, with recent posting and recent votes, in which a no-lynch would really hurt the town so Im going to have to vote Nova Terra.
My reasoning is as follows:
1. Both the Sbrubbles and Phagga WIFOM cases lead back to Nova the most.
2. Velinath's case vs Nova, Nova's shaky defense against it.
3. Nova's really terrible case vs Seviro and Seviro's counter case.
4. Goss brings up a good case vs Janaan, giving him ++town in my book at this point. Me thinking he is town makes me believe Nova is scum.
Therefore:
##Vote: Nova_Terra
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Seviro, It is I who is sure that you are a scum.
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Actually Mementoss, if i did flip scum, which wont happen as i am a Townie the game would be over bar a sick medic save etc. A no lynch would hurt the town less than this would.
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I would laugh if both of our lurkers were town, and it would be therefore impossible for me to win the game
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Well here is the situation. A no-lynch most likely brings us to 4 Town - 3 Mafia. Which means every townie has to agree on a lynch, if one townie isn't convinced mafia can easily swing another no-lynch and then win with the night kill.
Right now we pretty much need to find a scum to get the ball rolling in the right direction. Finding one scum tonight will give a lot of information, while a no lynch gives none. We can use this to connect and hunt the remaining scum to win the game.
If we no-lynch tonight we lose another valuable town analysist and could possibly lose to a modkill as well. Also I doubt we will find any more evidence that will change the current views of the town.
Imo the cases against Nova are the best the town has had to go on compared to the previous lynches, which were based on really soft cases, WIFOM, conspiracy connections, and basically were just lynching lurkers.
Also I'm starting to doubt if we have any blues, if we do, they have not really contributed anything to the game yet. And yes if both lurkers are town than we are in some serious shit. I think it may be a 1/1 split atm.
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@ Seviro, generally taking parts from peoples filters and summarizing them is how a case is made. i think it apparent in my summaries that much of your content is fluff/ filler, with some repeat defense and small contradictions that you overreacted about also in there. those things are all scummy.
having 0 blues would suck majorly. im hoping that after i am lynched ( as seems inevitable at this point) 1 lurker is replaced and one is modkilled and the modkilled one is mafia. best case scenario i guess.
DT, if you exist, now would be a damn good time for you to show up.
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I'm good with a Nova lynch as stated earlier.
##Vote: Nova_Terra
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I said I had a scum read on Nova before, so I'm sticking with that.
##Vote: Nova_Terra
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United States22154 Posts
night post in three minutes.
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United States22154 Posts
Endgame
Once again the brave men of the base had reached a decision. This time it was Nova_Terra who stoically faced down the cannon of a gun. As he protested his innocence, the grim faced firing squad took aim, and fired. As the smoke stood suspended in the silence after the gunfire, Nova_Terra staggered backwards, clutching his chest as he crumbled blood seeping out from between his fingers that clung tightly to the wound.
In another part of the vault, koritora had already reached a decision. In the sinister echoing silence of the deserted cafeteria his corpse swung, pushed by the breeze of the ventilators. His suicide had been most unpleasant, the rope hanging from the rafters had failed to snap his neck, leaving him to slowly asphyxiate, from the corner of his mouth blood trickled, his face frozen in a grimace of agony, three words carved on the table beside him. "Joining my family."
Deep in the armory another grizzly sight would have greeted anyone venturing in. Against the far wall lay a sprawled corpse, InfernOokami7 had found his fate. A stolen and jury rigged alien pistol had been his arbiter, its single plasma shot had been enough to fully remove his head. The plasma coils were still steaming in the blood when Nova_Terra learned of the cruel bite of bullets.
The room fell silent as Nova_Terra fell to the ground. This was it, it was the end. The five remaining men looked at each other. Gossemerr was the first to reach for his knife, he may have just emptied his gun, but he'd be damned if he was going down quietly. He was too slow. Before he could do more than get it out, Velinath was already behind him. "Goodbye" Velinath chuckled, driving a blade through Gossemerr's neck in a spray of arterial blood. Seviro did not wait to see what was going to happen to Gossemerr, he was already sprinting towards the door as he tried to reload the handgun, but he found his way barred by Janaan and Mementoss. "Going somewhere" Janaan asked mockingly. Seviro's curse was cut off mid expeltive by a sharp jab, the last thing he would see was his own guts flowing out of him.
The three aliens regained their true forms and looked at one another. They spoke in their weird chirping tongue, and seeming to reach an agreement, unsealed the vault and left as quietly as they had arrived.
Three days later the aliens left the planet, and put it to the flame with orbital strikes. All life was wiped from the earth. The aliens had found what they wanted, and no longer needed us. Mankind's story ended before it had really begun.
The End
Nova_Terra the Vanilla Townie has been executed
Gossemerr the Vanilla Townie has been cut down in the endgame
Seviro the Vanilla Townie has met his end in the endgame
koritora the Vanilla Townie has been modkilled, shame on him
InfernOokami7the Vigilante has been modkilled. He is dishonored.
Mementoss the Mafia Goon has led the slaughter and won, being awarded the highest decorations
Janaan the Mafia Goon has been promoted to Executor for destroying the last hope of mankind
Velinath the Mafia Goon has exterminated another race and been made Cabal Leader for his actions.
Flawless Mafia Victory!
Scum QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/fuJNcarFdF7Z9
Obs QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/rDquHFtkZ7u
Setup: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjLxKJpmCjgDdEJqbDZsZkdOUmFnd2ZKNk9TS19XTUE
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Well played mafia! Town got hobbled by inactivity and mod-kills which is a shame.
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WP all, gj scumbuddies :D
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Dang you Janaan. If only I could have been more persuasive. Haha, good game guys.
Also Nova, I hope you don't hate me :/
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GG all, at the end I really thought it was too easy but well, it was the only track we had. It's a shame that our blue did nothing with his power. All in all i'm kind of happy with how I played and I learned a lot so I guess I will sign up for another one :D
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Is there going to be another one starting up? eager to keep playing haha. I saw a bunch in the queue, but couldn't find the threads
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That's odd. I went 3 out of 3 on the scum team. You guys were pretty scummy for a 15-page game
Mostly annoyed that town killed NovaTerra. The guy was active, transparent and putting real effort into the game. You shouldn't kill people just because their logic is a bit ropey and they end up on the wrong side of a mislynch. Look for those clearly playing below their ability and going with the flow, and you'd have had Janaan and Mementoss on day 1.
Oh yeah, it's never too early for an FoS. One bad post is plenty.
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United States22154 Posts
You were great. No complaints about your hosting at all, and I liked your night posts :-P
Next time we won't let replacements have the obs qt though, (that was my fault), overall, great job ^_^
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On March 19 2012 13:45 GMarshal wrote:
Next time we won't let replacements have the obs qt though, (that was my fault), overall, great job ^_^
Oh, so that's the reason why rayNimagi did don'T replace someone. (not that it would have made a deifference anyway.)
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On March 19 2012 12:28 Gossemerr wrote:
Dang you Janaan. If only I could have been more persuasive. Haha, good game guys.
Also Nova, I hope you don't hate me :/
Yeah, man, you had me pinned as scum. You just need to be more confident in your reads next time, and if you really think someone is scummy, push them HARD! I never really felt much pressure, because the only case you posted on me until after it was too late was the one showing connections with Nova and Phagga. Ask questions of your target, use FoS, and vote early. You tried asking me pretty open ended questions, but even when I gave pretty bad answers, I wasn't really called out on it. Part of that was 2 town players being totally inactive, though.
Another suggestion, you can take it or leave it, when you did your first case about me, Nova, and Phagga, after that you never really could muster any real clout, partly because, I think, you had already alienated 2 townies. Maybe next time try focusing on your strongest scum read (which would have been me) and make a case for them first, instead of trying to connect all the dots all at once. There may be 3 scum out there, but you still need to lynch them one at a time!
EDIT (by way of edit button )
I really need work on my scum play. If the town wasn't so inactive overall, I probably would've been spotted from a mile away as scum. But, practice makes perfect I suppose. I think I'm gonna forgo my 4th newbie game, and head out into the open water of general TL mafia. Probably sign up for another game pretty soon.
Thanks GMarshal and Probulous for hosting!
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On March 19 2012 13:56 Janaan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 12:28 Gossemerr wrote:
Dang you Janaan. If only I could have been more persuasive. Haha, good game guys.
Also Nova, I hope you don't hate me :/ Yeah, man, you had me pinned as scum. You just need to be more confident in your reads next time, and if you really think someone is scummy, push them HARD! I never really felt much pressure, because the only case you posted on me until after it was too late was the one showing connections with Nova and Phagga. Ask questions of your target, use FoS, and vote early. You tried asking me pretty open ended questions, but even when I gave pretty bad answers, I wasn't really called out on it. Part of that was 2 town players being totally inactive, though.
You were my next target, I was tunneled on Nova too much and since he voted for me, the best scenario we could have had was a no-lynch and by the look of your QT I was your next target. At this point we were in some deep shit and only the Vig could have swung the game around.
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Thank you Probulous, should have read through that thread haha.
On March 19 2012 13:56 Janaan wrote:
Yeah, man, you had me pinned as scum. You just need to be more confident in your reads next time, and if you really think someone is scummy, push them HARD! I never really felt much pressure, because the only case you posted on me until after it was too late was the one showing connections with Nova and Phagga. Ask questions of your target, use FoS, and vote early. You tried asking me pretty open ended questions, but even when I gave pretty bad answers, I wasn't really called out on it. Part of that was 2 town players being totally inactive, though.
Very true. GG, was fun.
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Now I'm so HYped for a new game :D
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That was a lot of fun. First game as scum - I think I could have certainly played it better, but I figured trying to pass myself off as an active scumhunter would let me direct a lynch. I guess by the time I came in ahnd really started posting aggressively all we needed was one anyway, hah.
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Holy god.
I actually feel really bad Gossemerr, Its me who hopes that you dont hate me o.O
Really well played by mafia, i was so sure mementoss was town...
Thanks jaj22 at the end i was trying to figure out what i was doing/defending wrong that got me lynched, but it was my own stupidity in making a case vs seviro(/gossemerr) that really killed me. it made sense that they lynched me.
I think i read into Janaans metagame much too hard too. in his last game he had pretty much the same approach and was a vanilla townie.
I wish we had lynched cosine day 1 haha.
Of course we read the day/night posts, and i thought they were very good and relatively creative. . sorry again to seviro and gossemerr
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haha no problem, even tho we lost, it was fun enough and I learned a lot, it was my first forum based mafia game and like my 3rd mafia game ever. We all made several critical mistakes, I hope to see you around in another game so we can start all over
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GG, was a good game. My reads were off again (thought that Velinath was town, was leaning town on Mementoss), and a shame with the lurkers. The Vig could have made such a difference.
Hosts, only thing bothering me was that the OP Playerlist was not really updated with filters and Deaths for a long time.
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same seviro. I think that next game i will be able to keep a cooler head, and will try to be less certain on who is town >.>
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Also wtf Velinath, never imagined someone coming into a game and being so aggressive so fast. good move on your part though.
EDIT: Hahahah this was my favorite part of the scum QT
"When he reads this he is gunna cry, get mad, then say I DEFENDED THIS SO ITS INVALID" ~Mementoss on me
Edited again: Also mementoss how is your kitty <3
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Hahaha disregard anything mean in the scum QT, I was just trying to get the scum team hyped anytime anything good was happening. You started and ended the game on a bit of sour notes Nova_Terra, but I think you were learning from your mistakes and such, the town wouldn't have got anywheres in the first cycle without you.
I hope to see you again in mafia, and keep your emotions out. Kitty is good, we put a St. Patty's day bow on it for St. Patricks day. So cute. I was drunk literally that whole day so I needed to stay away from mafia lol.
Also GG scum, fun playing from the red side. It woulda been more challenging, if the blue did something and the town had more activity. That's the problem with newbie games I supposed. Nobody ever put a case on me the whole game nor did they mention me in obs QT. Guess thats a good thing.
Good job by the hosts, woulda liked filters edited into main page, and updated with the kills. I enjoyed reading the night posts and they had good pictures. Only other thing was replacements but, that can be a pain and it didn't help about the obs QT.
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Also I'm always looking to get better so any mistakes you noticed I made or anything I coulda done better etc, just shoot me a PM I'm sure I will continue playing these mafia shenanigans.
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No dont worry haha it was funny. I might actually add that quote as my signature to keep me focused and realize what not to do >.>
Im hoping i get a blue or red role next game, but green is still fun.
Haha you should post pictures of him with the bow.
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I assume I'm allowed to post once the game is over, but reading the last day was almost heartbreaking as I already knew that the Mafia had won, so watching Nova get voted was killer
I just hope I can get a spot in the next mafia game that starts, looks like great fun :D
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awww <3
I hope next newbie game starts soon
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United States22154 Posts
On March 20 2012 01:50 Nova_Terra wrote:
awww <3
I hope next newbie game starts soon
As soon as I'm able to bug foolishness.
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On March 19 2012 13:56 Janaan wrote:
Another suggestion, you can take it or leave it, when you did your first case about me, Nova, and Phagga, after that you never really could muster any real clout, partly because, I think, you had already alienated 2 townies. Maybe next time try focusing on your strongest scum read (which would have been me) and make a case for them first, instead of trying to connect all the dots all at once. There may be 3 scum out there, but you still need to lynch them one at a time!
Yeah, I think this is particularly important in mini games. Unless you name the whole scum team correctly, you've just decreased your chance of getting a successful vote on scum by pissing off some townies. Keeping the linked cases to yourself until after a flip is probably the best choice. If your case relies almost entirely on links, then it's probably a bad case.
I really need work on my scum play. If the town wasn't so inactive overall, I probably would've been spotted from a mile away as scum.
In your previous town game, you put quite a lot of effort into keeping discussion moving on day 1, so I felt that sitting back while town vegetated in this game was rather conspicuous. One-game meta is much more powerful than a lot of people think.
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On March 20 2012 02:16 jaj22 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 13:56 Janaan wrote:
Another suggestion, you can take it or leave it, when you did your first case about me, Nova, and Phagga, after that you never really could muster any real clout, partly because, I think, you had already alienated 2 townies. Maybe next time try focusing on your strongest scum read (which would have been me) and make a case for them first, instead of trying to connect all the dots all at once. There may be 3 scum out there, but you still need to lynch them one at a time!
Yeah, I think this is particularly important in mini games. Unless you name the whole scum team correctly, you've just decreased your chance of getting a successful vote on scum by pissing off some townies. Keeping the linked cases to yourself until after a flip is probably the best choice. If your case relies almost entirely on links, then it's probably a bad case. Show nested quote +I really need work on my scum play. If the town wasn't so inactive overall, I probably would've been spotted from a mile away as scum. In your previous town game, you put quite a lot of effort into keeping discussion moving on day 1, so I felt that sitting back while town vegetated in this game was rather conspicuous. One-game meta is much more powerful than a lot of people think.
This is why I needed to be really active, as my last game as town I was always posting big posts while alive.
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On March 19 2012 17:59 Nova_Terra wrote:Holy god. I actually feel really bad Gossemerr, Its me who hopes that you dont hate me o.O Really well played by mafia, i was so sure mementoss was town... Thanks jaj22 at the end i was trying to figure out what i was doing/defending wrong that got me lynched, but it was my own stupidity in making a case vs seviro(/gossemerr) that really killed me. it made sense that they lynched me. I think i read into Janaans metagame much too hard too. in his last game he had pretty much the same approach and was a vanilla townie. I wish we had lynched cosine day 1 haha. Of course we read the day/night posts, and i thought they were very good and relatively creative. . sorry again to seviro and gossemerr
Of course not my friend. Hope to see you again soon.
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Interesting mementoss.
I suspected that you were scum. Although you didn't write as much as in V, you still wrote plenty. Which made me suspicious because it was what did you get killed in V.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EhVL5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Twmf6v4bW2U/TUsIH131lII/AAAAAAAAAJc/NAoUMZJtzXI/s1600/jww2_bunkers-jonathan_andrew-06.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vaArQ.jpg)
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