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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
So, Refallen. Hm. Um, I did some reading.
Reading through your filter it seems like you're acting fairly town. ._. You got some reads and pushed them in a reasonable fashion, and respond to people who talk to you. I have no idea why you're so bad at voting and knowing where to put your vote.
I'm either severely disappointed in your town play or largely convinced by your scum play.
OK so, I think you MIGHT be scum, but you also might be town. I'm substantially more sure of E-dawg being scum because he's hustling us but I still demand explanations for your actions post me-calling-you-out. And if they are insufficient I will devour you.
##Vote: Erandorr
Oh hey blazinghand whats this is your vote announced in the thread?
yeah man it is
oh that's cool that seems like a pro-town thing to do
yeah i would say so
why would you ever not announce your vote in the thread?
dunno.
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Be severely disappointed then. It was my fault for being lazy and not wanting to PM ZBot through my IPhone lol.
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On January 07 2012 10:45 Blazinghand wrote:
So, Refallen. Hm. Um, I did some reading.
Reading through your filter it seems like you're acting fairly town. ._. You got some reads and pushed them in a reasonable fashion, and respond to people who talk to you. I have no idea why you're so bad at voting and knowing where to put your vote.
I'm either severely disappointed in your town play or largely convinced by your scum play.
OK so, I think you MIGHT be scum, but you also might be town. I'm substantially more sure of E-dawg being scum because he's hustling us but I still demand explanations for your actions post me-calling-you-out. And if they are insufficient I will devour you.
##Vote: Erandorr
Oh hey blazinghand whats this is your vote announced in the thread?
yeah man it is
oh that's cool that seems like a pro-town thing to do
yeah i would say so
why would you ever not announce your vote in the thread?
dunno.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
In all seriousness we need to be choosing our lynch traget between Erandorr and risk.nuke.
I shall explain why i think this in the morning
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Refallen posted his suspicions of Palmar many times throughout his filter so I don't think this was any kind of underhanded scum tactic just an honest mistake.
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Slowly and steadily I'm beeing raised to the top, scumagenda *cough*
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On January 07 2012 10:55 Grackaroni wrote:
Refallen posted his suspicions of Palmar many times throughout his filter so I don't think this was any kind of underhanded scum tactic just an honest mistake.
>.>
On January 07 2012 10:49 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 10:45 Blazinghand wrote:
So, Refallen. Hm. Um, I did some reading.
Reading through your filter it seems like you're acting fairly town. ._. You got some reads and pushed them in a reasonable fashion, and respond to people who talk to you. I have no idea why you're so bad at voting and knowing where to put your vote.
I'm either severely disappointed in your town play or largely convinced by your scum play.
OK so, I think you MIGHT be scum, but you also might be town. I'm substantially more sure of E-dawg being scum because he's hustling us but I still demand explanations for your actions post me-calling-you-out. And if they are insufficient I will devour you.
##Vote: Erandorr
Oh hey blazinghand whats this is your vote announced in the thread?
yeah man it is
oh that's cool that seems like a pro-town thing to do
yeah i would say so
why would you ever not announce your vote in the thread?
dunno. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha In all seriousness we need to be choosing our lynch traget between Erandorr and risk.nuke. I shall explain why i think this in the morning
MAN ok look at the time I put my vote on him he deserved it and you know it
On January 07 2012 11:00 risk.nuke wrote:
Slowly and steadily I'm beeing raised to the top, scumagenda *cough*
Ah yes clearly the scum conspiracy to bring you to "the top" with 2 votes has come to fruition
i'm off for a couple of hours; dinner and that sort of thing.
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On January 07 2012 05:51 syllogism wrote:Wiggles what do you think about Erandorr and Risk nuke and don't you think that in a 6 scum game it would be safer play to lynch one of them or Tyrran as I would estimate that they are at least as likely to flip scum and are going to be considerably more worthless even if we happen to be wrong.
Ugh, sorry this took so long. I had it half written, when my brother conned me into going with him to buy a desk, but none of the stores we went to had it so it ended up taking us 5 hours before we finally found it. -__-
Tyrran:
He started out the game with very general advice. This seems weird, but it might be due to the mini games, in which I've seen new players do that to each other. Still something to note though, as scum like to use it to look like they're contributing.
Compared to steamship that you linked, he is much more careful and timid in this game. In steamship, just reading through his early posts, he didn't seem scared to call people out and ask direct questions. In that game, he was vanilla, however, so there could be something to do with the set-up contributing to his timidness (less likely because he talks about the set-up in this game), or he's some kind of power role.
Verdict: Scummy. Not as direct as his last game, and timid. However, I'm willing to give him slightly more time to see if he starts to contribute. Might be a good vig shot night 2.
Does anyone have a game in which Tyrran rolled scum that I can read?
@Tyrran, what do you think of the accusations against you? Who do you want to lynch?
Erandorr:
There's not much to go on here, as he hasn't posted much, and half of it is spam. Something weird is this post:
On January 07 2012 02:11 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 01:56 Dirkzor wrote:On January 07 2012 00:51 syllogism wrote:
While I consider palmar the better lynch out of wiggles/palmar, I don't think it's a good idea to lynch palmar today. We've other very good lynches available, it's a setup with 6 scum and he is very likely to become more transparent the longer the game goes on if he is scum or dead if he is town.
I'll probably narrow the list down but I would like to keep the lynch between erandorr/risk/tyrran/refallen. Out of those erandorr appears to be by far the safest lynch and the only reason I haven't been actively pushing him as the #1 lynch was to give him more time and because it's pretty disappointing if he again decided not to play due to rolling scum. While I agree that palmar/Wiggles aren't our best lynch option, why would you rather hang Palmar? Meta? Because i feel that Wiggles case is bad. Whether it is intentionally to push an agenda or just bad i don't know. About your other targets I find risk the most scummiest. Why do you think Risk is scummiest and not Tyrran/me? If I am not mistaken then Syllos reasons to rather lynch Palmar have very little to do with the arguments Wiggles brought forward. Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 01:59 Zephirdd wrote:On January 07 2012 01:55 Erandorr wrote:On January 07 2012 01:48 Zephirdd wrote:On January 07 2012 01:30 Refallen wrote:
Yes, but would a scum immediately stick his neck out to try to lynch one of the more prominent players here? Especially assuming, of course, if Palmar flips town he will probably get lynched or at the very least be focused on the next day? Essentially trading a townie for a scum. And even if a scum team deems this worthwhile, would they send mr.wiggles to do the accusing, seeing as how he has a high chance of being the better player on the scum team? Same thing with jackal, and it's why I think they might be town. The only mitigating factor is the fact that syllo was on palmars case early in the game, and wiggles/jackal thought that was the green light in getting palmar lynched. I think the explanation that they're town is more likely though.
Also, syllo, why do you still want to lynch me?
They would, exactly because someone would end up asking this question. Someone mentioned that there is a 80% rate of mislynch on day one on a mafia dedicated forum, and that is quite something. This is enough to say that you cannot push someone as scum because he made a mistake day 1 - which is something many players interpret wrongly. It's NORMAL for town to make mistakes as long as they are justifiable. However, Palmar points out a good amount of inconsistencies on MrWiggles' case, and we should also consider that he is an experienced player(compared to most of the lineup). He knows better than making those mistakes, and we all know that inexperienced players would fail to see these little inconsistencies and end up lynching Palmar. If there is one thing perfectly fine for a scum team, is to lynch an enemy Palmar right off the bat; ESPECIALLY day 1 where the most wrong cases occur. Although the same could be said for MW(a scum Palmar would benefit a whole lot from lynching MW), the difference is that Palmar's case is much stronger than MrWiggles, especially when, by building that case, he broke a good lot of MrWiggles' arguments. Either way, we can also consider that both Palmar AND MrWiggles may be scum(two families). Out of the two, which is the one you would rather like to lynch and why? Check the voting post and decide for yourself who I would rather like to lynch. Hint: it's obvious As for "why", I think I stated a couple times already. Ya, mistake on my side, sorry.
Where he asks why Dirkzor doesn't find him scummy. This sets off some warning bells, because I don't see a reason for a townie to ever ask someone why they don't think they're scummy. Hopefully, it should be a given, but I see this being used as scum to draw out someone to explain why they're not scummy. My opinion, anyways.
Others say he has a meta of lurking as scum, which counts against him as well, since he seems to have the time to make excuses or spam, but not to give his thoughts.
Verdict: Useless, and the post I linked makes me wary. Couple that with the meta others are supplying, and there's a decent chance of him being scum.
risk.nuke:
The first thing I notice is that he seems irrationally defensive. Syllogism calls him out, and he seems to get very defensive, very quickly. Actually, a fair portion of his posts are all in response to being called out. Something funny I noted is that he called out xsksc for meta reasons, and then becomes angry at Syllogism for doing the same to him. Something else, in comparison to Steamship, which others have brought up (I read his day 1 posts), is that in that game, he was rather free with his votes, using them to pressure and to scumhunt. In this game, after 48 hours, he has yet to vote, and gets mad at Syllo when he brings this up as well. Also odd, is that he says, "there are two days left why woudl I commit to lynching this soon", which seems very odd, as it's possible to change your vote, and to change your mind. It seems like an easy way to misrepresent what has been said and slip out of being held accountable.
Verdict: Another one with a decent chance of being scum. Overall, I just get a bad vibe from him, and his posting seems scummy. Between lynching risk.nuke and Erandorr, I'd probably choose risk.nuke right now, but they're fairly close.
As well, there's the possibility of both Erandorr and risk.nuke being scum, in which case, they're most likely on different scum-teams.
@Syllo: What do you think of Palmar right now? Do you actually think that one of these three have a much higher chance of flipping scum than him? Are you prepared to lynch Palmar if he continues to act scummy? Of these three, which do you want to push a lynch on, if you choose to do so?
@Bluelightz: You had suspicion on you early in the game, but after that it's felt like you've disappeared. What are your thoughts right now? Who do you want to lynch?
P.S. RoL is a good shot for the Demon-hunter right now, as well as the Acolyte (If he's not on your team, that is).
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On January 07 2012 14:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
@Bluelightz: You had suspicion on you early in the game, but after that it's felt like you've disappeared. What are your thoughts right now? Who do you want to lynch?
Right now, I am suspicious of Grackaroni due to his Wishy-washyness with his reads.I think that since there's no real candidate for lynching I am fine with lynching a lurker, but if a solid case does pop up i'm fine with switching over
I don't have suspicions on Palmar/you after Palmar's defense though.
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On January 07 2012 09:12 Tyrran wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 07:47 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Well, it appears as though xsksc is no longer playing this game, as his last post was: January 04 2012 23:24. I don't like lynching lurkers, but from what I know of Erandorr, his lurking makes him likely to be scum, and I do like lynching scum. Barring him showing an actual commitment to playing, I would be fine with lynching him. On risk.nuke, his playstyle seems to vary a good deal between games, so I am not sold on him being scum yet and would certainly like to hear a bit more from him before deciding whether or not I think he is worth a lynch. TyrranTyrran's play seems very different from his play in steamship where he was town. He is being much less aggressive so far, and usually people are more aggressive as town than they are as scum. I think he would make a fine lynch for the day. My only qualm with lynching him is that he hasn't interacted with other players much so far, so his flip will be less revealing, but I like our odds of hitting scum here. My vote will be on him for now. His steamship filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=57176His filter so far this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&user=57176##Vote: Tyrran If you read steamship mafia, you'll notice i wasnt really active before I had some hard fact to analyse ( ie kenpachi lynch). I'm not good at analysing Meta, because its only my second game here. Half the accusation here are made on meta. I'm looking for contradictions, votes, something i can work on. I dont like making case for the sake on making one. I'll make a case after day 1, when i'll have more info to work with.
No, I accused you of being non-aggressive/passive, not of being inactive. Saying that you weren't very active at first in steamship doesn't have any bearing on the argument I am making.
Comparing these posts, which were 2 of your first 4 posts in steamship:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 04:01 Tyrran wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 03:00 Sabin010 wrote:On November 16 2011 02:37 Zephirdd wrote:On November 16 2011 02:25 Tyrran wrote:On November 16 2011 01:59 Sabin010 wrote:
I agree about lynching liars, but if we're lynching lurkers because they're not active just doesn't seem to be a good way to go about this. If some one proposes we lynch a lurker, I'm not voting. So you are basically saying : " hey mafia, go lurk and stop posting and you'll be safe from me". I hope you understand how this is suspicious. Gotta agree with Tyrran here. Lurkers are bad for townies. That said, I don't want to just go on "lynch ALL the lurkers!" mode, but at least lynching one or two a day should make them stay in high alert. You know I never thought about it like that. What kind of defense is that ? No, I dont know what is in your head. The only reason you gave for not lynching lurkers is it "I'm sure some of the lurkers are blues". And we are not speaking of lynching them rigth now, but more toward the end of day 1. Not being active is one of the easiest way for mafia player to stay under the radar. we should prevent taht as much as possible. And blues, stay active, dont get lynched. On November 16 2011 20:07 Tyrran wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 18:23 prplhz wrote:
Yea I like Kenpachi as a lynch too
##Vote Kenpachi So you were a fervent defender of only lynching 'scummy' lurkers. And now you suddenly decide to vote for kenpachi without giving any reason Could you please detail a bit more on why you like kenpachi as a vote, other than the fact that he did not post much ? His townie claim basically does not mean anything Keeping an eyes on lurkers is good, but i would wait to the end on day 1(the last 24 hours) before voting for one of them. It seems to me that blanket voting this early on day one can only lead us divide our attention. Voting for someone whenever he says something strange without trying to pressure him more/confirm him as scum is a great way to lynch a lot of townies and seems to be a good strategy for the mafia side, but not that great for town ( obviously). Bumatlarge espescially has been trying to push the town into lynching as many people as possible. Almost each one of his post include a quote on how we should lynch every single player. Spoiler below shows some example from this filter : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=31777+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 10:36 bumatlarge wrote:Why would you FoS when you can just vote them. Don't be pansies. Realized I didn't properly vote. I doubt I will ever take my vote off of kenpachi, it's not that I don't like him, but he is not an asset to the town at the moment, or the forseeable future. Nisani has proceeded to call me dumb or scum, but that doesn't change the fact that his fluffy posts stick out, so it will stay there until he remedies it. ##Vote: Kenpachi
##Vote: Nisani201And this Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:13 Drazerk wrote:##Vote: Sabin010
Bad vibes also this - On November 16 2011 00:22 Sabin010 wrote:
I have seen to many games where we lose our cop or doc first day and end up wasting our time as the mob picks us off. On November 16 2011 01:06 Sabin010 wrote:
This is my first game and im not sure of all the terms. I thought scum, mob, and mafia are the same. Is why LAL is bad. What possible reason would cause mafia to post this instead of town. By all means keep up the detective work and checking out all the inconsistencies, but use a little sense. This definetely contradicts itself, and it could very well be an intentional lie, but even that doesn't make him scum. The bad strategy reason tht DCL brought up is actually something to go on. You are pushing your luck by trying to find lies a day into the game. Use that energy to filter a suspicious person instead and get a general vibe, and see if their future posts push you one way or the other. If there wasn't a majority lynch in play, I'd put my vote on everyone, and start taking off people who don't register as scum. That's about how many people I think should be lynched each day. On November 16 2011 02:32 bumatlarge wrote:Next person that mentions LAL is getting a vote placed on them. Seriously enough with the useless shit. We will be lynching however many scummy people we can find on the particular day. We are restricting ourselves when we don't have a clue as to what our boundaries are.Nisani has posted complete fluff and none of it shows any effort in actually heling town. I don't think the new people are brain-dead, so unless the specifically ask about something, don't use them as an excuse to post asinine shit. Oh, hi kibbibit  ##Vote Nisani201 On November 16 2011 12:37 bumatlarge wrote:
We got 48 hours from now, right? This time tomorrow we need to look at the votes and see where people stand. I'm honestly surprised how few votes there are, you get as many as you want, a decent townie can take advantage of this. There is no comparing how scummy certain players are to others, you just lynch them or you don't. I guess it's still early, and I'm still fishing for reads here. Oh and surprise, the only post not advocating to lynch the entire town is to defend chaoser, the ONLY person that agreed with the 'vote for everyone' strategy, after he got pressured by WBG. And by defending him, he explains than chaoser should stop doing just what he was advocating the town to do i.e: vote for everyone that seems scummy. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 12:50 bumatlarge wrote:
Welcome to WBG logic. But that doesn't make what he says untrue, I think chaoser should focus his attention more and prove singleton cases rather then babble on about everything. Doubt he's scum though. So you spend all your post explaining we should vote for anyone who seems scummy, and you defend chaoser that was doing exactly that by saying "he should focus his attention more". How is that not a huge contradiction ? FoS bumatlarge.
to your play so far just seems incredibly different. It reads to me like you are playing scared this game. Scared because you're scum.
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On January 07 2012 15:01 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 14:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
@Bluelightz: You had suspicion on you early in the game, but after that it's felt like you've disappeared. What are your thoughts right now? Who do you want to lynch?
Right now, I am suspicious of Grackaroni due to his Wishy-washyness with his reads.I think that since there's no real candidate for lynching I am fine with lynching a lurker, but if a solid case does pop up i'm fine with switching over I don't have suspicions on Palmar/you after Palmar's defense though.
What do you think of Tyrran, have you looked at his play so far here, compared to his game as town in steamship (at least the first page of his filter)? Do you think the case has any merit?
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Well, I read the first page of his filter on steamship and it does have some diffrences with Tyrran here. But, I think we should wait for day 2 though.
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Spaackle is replacing xsksc. As I will be adjusting ZBot to reflect this, those of you who have already voted will be receiving acknowledgements for each of your votes once again.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Hello Spaackle. Get in on this :D
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Wiggles: I think palmar is likely scum. It's pretty much impossible to assign probabilities to flips so I'm not even going to bother, but I guess I could say that I don't think they are particularly more likely to flip scum than palmar. The issue is where we are if they don't flip scum; losing palmar day 1 would definitely be much worse. We can probably lynch him tomorrow if he keeps playing like this.
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For the people who can't figure it out, I'm moving my vote off mr. wiggles because once I stopped raging over him trolling me with that case, I realized that last 2 times wiggles was scum in a game with me he was quite obvious (mini mafia x, lynched day 1, and cosmic horror mafia, I tried to get him lynched day 1, but he got off with a no-lynch). This game I actually had a town read on him until he derped that case out.
So the conclusion becomes, yes he is just that bad. It would be incredibly ballsy of him to do what he did as scum, thus it's actually more likely that he's just wrong.
That's the reason I've changed my mind.
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in addition, out of all the people in the thread, I'm the one who had him as scum day 1 two games, so even if he was to create a phony case, he would probably pick another target. (Jackal's comment of being on the receiving end of me using meta arguments is likely him misremembering me building a pure meta case on him in XLV, however, I was scum that game, so it's an invalid example).
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I have no idea why I put the comment about jackal in brackets.
also, I think jackal is scum.
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Palmar don't you want risk to answer your question
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Do you think we should lynch him over erandorr if the answer doesn't make sense?
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EPT
