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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 01:16 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:15 JinDesu wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 Sylailene wrote:
Just another example of Koreans trying to act better than everyone else, in an American game at that, what he did wasn't against any rules This is pretty racist, people should not generalize Koreans as such. like everybody who agree with GOMTV is generalizing sweds right now?
That is racist too, and does NOT condone either direction.
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On December 15 2011 01:16 Odal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:15 IMoperator wrote:On December 15 2011 01:05 FrankWalls wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 Biane wrote:On December 15 2011 01:02 Phaint wrote:
How many free opportunities at GSL does Naniwa really deserve though? Hasn't he been in 2 Code A's, World Tournament, GSTL and Blizzard Cup now? He has NO results from any of these tournaments. I'm not sure he even deserves Code S in the first place. Stop handing out opportunities to the SAME person to flop. I like Naniwa but I also like this decision regardless of this week's drama. http://www.gomtv.net/records/playerInfo.gom?option=view&playerid=239561W12L..... why do people use this as an argument? the ban had nothing to do with his previous performances in gsl. this wasn't about his play at all so why bring it up? we bring it up because he should be grateful he gets a spot at all, GOM doesn't HAVE to give naniwa a spot you know... Um, well because of their partnership with MLG, they do. MLG can completely fuck over GSL by getting rid of their partnership for not doing their end of the deal.
You really think GOM is the only one benefiting from this relationship? MLG viewership would go down if they couldn't get the good Koreans at their tournaments. Also I gotta saw after what Nani did to MLG on screen, I don't think they're going to retaliate, but instead wish they would have done the same when Nani completely disrespected them.
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If Naniwa didn't sign anything with the GSL, then he isn't entitled to [sue for] his spot.
GSL-MLG exchange program is a contract between those two parties. Naniwa as a 3rd party shouldn't have a claim unless MLG is willing to back him up.
Just to throw it out there to the people saying Naniwa should sue.
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On December 15 2011 01:18 Commander_strip wrote:
This isn't MLG this is the GSL live in Korea. At that point his job is an entertainer. No body wants to watch someone half ass a game. GSL would of looked like a push over if they let him do that.
Naniwa doesn't win prize money depending on how good of a belly dancer he is. He is there to win. What is so hard to get about this? He is paid to play the game and win, not entertain you. Hence why 1st place is ranked on wins not entertainment value.
if tournaments were based on entertainment value, TLO or incontrol would be winning all the tournaments.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49484 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +I'm surprised no one has mentioned spoilers from today's blizzard cup interview
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On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game
and if you don't agree with GOM rule, you can not participate, or face the consequences thinking and acting you are bigger than the organizer
there is no such thing as match doesn't matter in GSL. every match matters to them, despite how you feel otherwise
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On December 15 2011 01:21 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:20 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:18 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:17 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:15 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:12 XRaDiiX wrote:"During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviors" So if this is true and Gom Sticks to the rule they enforced against Naniwa that means bomber should be banned from Code S/A for doing Mule Drops at end of Games... Double Standard GomTV Shame on them. They are making up rules as they go along; to go as they see fit. They are not being fair to NaNiwa They had this kind of rule since the beginning, it was just not on paper because it was so obvious. And no one at the time would have suspected that someone could be THAT stupid to actually pull a Naniwa. Care to elaborate on how Mule Bombs are different than what NaNiwa did by doing a 6 probe rush Strategy. Because it's a ceremony before winning, like /dance command. And 6 probe rush is NOT A STRATEGY when you don't even bother to micro the probes to let their shields generate. There is no rules that state how to play the game and what strategy you 'have' to use. So 6 rush probe is actually completely within the rules. And it's not the strategy that is the issue here. It's about being earnest and being professional about your job, which is the obvious qualification of participating in GSL, not just your tournament wins and win/loss ratios. "Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter. It is official that Naniwa is given a punishment"
Which Naniwa actually is given his attitude and douchebaggery displayed last night.
He just showed his true colors, and Mr.Chae was just repeating the truth.
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GSL is a fucking joke. That's all I can say.
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[QUOTE]On December 15 2011 01:23 sekritzzz wrote:
[QUOTE]On December 15 2011 01:18 Commander_strip wrote:
He is paid to play the game and win, [/QUOTE]
yeah and he lost a game on purpose. nuff said.
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On December 15 2011 01:20 Xax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:17 ptrpb wrote:On December 15 2011 01:16 Xax wrote:On December 15 2011 01:13 ptrpb wrote:On December 15 2011 01:10 Xax wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 gruff wrote:On December 15 2011 01:06 OFCORPSE wrote:On December 15 2011 01:03 papaz wrote:
God, I'd love to make a list of all the people going "not gonna watch GSL again" and then say hi to you guys in the LR of next GSL. Can still follow the live report thread even if you don't intend to pay for it. You can still follow the free stream. I don't get how people are not aware of this simple fact (not you). Scumbag GSL Haters: "not gonna watch GSL again" "watch free stream and follow LR" haha Anyone intelligent enough can just get the VODs from some place else. Sup GOM, I'm getting GSL without giving you anything, not even a free stream view. Yeah, have fun not watching GSL then  You seem to be misunderstanding. One can watch the VODs without paying GOM or watching the free stream. That's my plan. Is that NOT watching GSL in your opinion?
It's watching the GSL but without giving them anything back. It's worse than a boycott. This option has been available for the longest time, but I paid for each season because I wanted to support the best league in the world. Looks like I need to find a new league to support.
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On December 15 2011 01:23 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:21 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:20 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:18 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:17 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:15 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:12 XRaDiiX wrote:"During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviors" So if this is true and Gom Sticks to the rule they enforced against Naniwa that means bomber should be banned from Code S/A for doing Mule Drops at end of Games... Double Standard GomTV Shame on them. They are making up rules as they go along; to go as they see fit. They are not being fair to NaNiwa They had this kind of rule since the beginning, it was just not on paper because it was so obvious. And no one at the time would have suspected that someone could be THAT stupid to actually pull a Naniwa. Care to elaborate on how Mule Bombs are different than what NaNiwa did by doing a 6 probe rush Strategy. Because it's a ceremony before winning, like /dance command. And 6 probe rush is NOT A STRATEGY when you don't even bother to micro the probes to let their shields generate. There is no rules that state how to play the game and what strategy you 'have' to use. So 6 rush probe is actually completely within the rules. And it's not the strategy that is the issue here. It's about being earnest and being professional about your job, which is the obvious qualification of participating in GSL, not just your tournament wins and win/loss ratios. "Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter. It is official that Naniwa is given a punishment" Which Naniwa actually is given his attitude and douchebaggery displayed last night. He just showed his true colors, and Mr.Chae was just repeating the truth.
Doesn't mean he can stoop to NaNiwas level and be unprofessional about it.
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On December 15 2011 01:23 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:21 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:20 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:18 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:17 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:15 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:12 XRaDiiX wrote:"During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviors" So if this is true and Gom Sticks to the rule they enforced against Naniwa that means bomber should be banned from Code S/A for doing Mule Drops at end of Games... Double Standard GomTV Shame on them. They are making up rules as they go along; to go as they see fit. They are not being fair to NaNiwa They had this kind of rule since the beginning, it was just not on paper because it was so obvious. And no one at the time would have suspected that someone could be THAT stupid to actually pull a Naniwa. Care to elaborate on how Mule Bombs are different than what NaNiwa did by doing a 6 probe rush Strategy. Because it's a ceremony before winning, like /dance command. And 6 probe rush is NOT A STRATEGY when you don't even bother to micro the probes to let their shields generate. There is no rules that state how to play the game and what strategy you 'have' to use. So 6 rush probe is actually completely within the rules. And it's not the strategy that is the issue here. It's about being earnest and being professional about your job, which is the obvious qualification of participating in GSL, not just your tournament wins and win/loss ratios. "Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter. It is official that Naniwa is given a punishment" Which Naniwa actually is given his attitude and douchebaggery displayed last night. He just showed his true colors, and Mr.Chae was just repeating the truth.
Calling somebody out like that on live tv is even less professional that what naniwa did.
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Naniwa deserved this. If this was an online tournament, this would be OK as it was a needless situation and he didn't want to play. But against a player he has had great rivalry and games with recently, and on a global stage where many people have paid to view it and tuned in I find this a deplorable and stupid act from Naniwa. I think maybe he was just scared of losing to Nestea and didn't want to legitimately lose
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i'm a bit curious what quantic gaming thinks of this.
on topic, IMHO, i think it was justified. Ppl need to realize that the blizzard cup is a gomtv production. If no punishment happened, what would stop him from doing it again in the future?
I am a bit curious though, why are ppl blaming the format on this? If naniwa had won a game, would everyone still be blaming the format? It's what round robin is.
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I don't really get why everyone here is so upset and surprised by this. The punishment 100% fits the crime and is something anyone could have seen coming.
No, this is absolutely nothing like FBH.
No, this is absolutely nothing like IdrA.
He was a crybaby that wanted to show everyone how upset he was rather than do his job. That shit doesn't fly in the real world. Nani needs to grow the fuck up and act like an adult.
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On December 15 2011 01:17 Kryptic.610 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:12 hypercube wrote:On December 15 2011 01:08 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:05 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 MrCon wrote:
Will then ban Hero from GSL, canon rushing after pool is done and building canons at the watchtower ?
If the difference between 2 thrown games is the amount of buildings built, they should state it more clearly. This.... Double Standard = GomTV! What people like you don't realize that it was the ATTITUDE and the METHOD of the player that made him cross the line, not the deed. Maybe that's the problem. It reveals that they value "entertainment" over competition. It's their tournament so they can if they want to. But they will get called out on their bs about "respect". This is true. I think Naniwa is ahead of the times, he is a true professional who doesn't want to waste time on a bullshit match. Why would he take the chance of revealing anything about his playstyle for a meaningless match. GomTV needs to respect players more, rather than appeasing butthurt (anti)fans. Like others have said, I am a Naniwa fan and I found that shit hilarious.
You couldn't fucking contradict yourself anymore. He is a true professional? (... LOL)
If he was such a professional, he would of just sucked it up and 4gated Nestea. Nobody would of gave him shit and it would of cost him 6 more minutes of his oh so precious time. At this level of play, a probe rush is not a strategy, it's not a cheese, it's just a way of telling everyone "I cannot be bothered with this tournament anymore". So please for the love of god can you ignorant fanboys stop comparing this to "all-in" builds that other players have done WHICH ACTUALLY HAVE A CHANCE OF WORKING.
He knew exactly what he was doing, and I am actually starting to think he thrives from all the bullshit drama he creates. The only problem is, it won't be long before he has worked his way through every team willing to give him a chance. I feel most sorry for Quantic Gaming after this whole affair, definitely not Naniwa.
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On December 15 2011 01:14 dude_2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:51 Shinta) wrote:On December 15 2011 00:33 dude_2 wrote:
i didn't read the whole thread. so sorry if someone has already written the same. but i am really wondering from the pages i have read, how people can argue there exists no throwing away of games in "real" sports. for example, it's pretty common in champions league (football) that already qualified teams send their b-team which is also a huge distortion of competition all the while other teams still playing for a spot.
anyone who has ever competed in sports knows that you don't play to your potential in a meaningless match and often don't make a real effort.
naniwa made it pretty obvious given that, but i as the audience can't blame him for that. When sports teams send in their B Team, the intention is to rest their A Team and to give their B Team better preparation in case they need to play games later (from A Team injury or w/e). That isn't match throwing unless you're saying that their B Team is a bunch of random people who don't play soccer. Their B Team is on their team in the first place because the team counts on them to play well for them when they are needed to play well. They haven't earned a spot on the A Team, but they are competent players and are paid by the sports team to play the game professionally. IT IS SIMPLY NOT MATCH THROWING. You can compare this in individual eSports leagues with, when you're playing a bo7 and you're up 3-0, and you use a silly strategy that usually only works in ladder. You're resting your mind while showing an entertaining game, while not giving away any big strategies you might be keeping for a much more pinnacle game. In a team eSports league, you see all the time in IPL and even GSTL sometimes (and other leagues ofc, but these include Korean teams) teams putting forth B Teamers to either start or get some practice in. That is because they feel confident in their B Teamers, but even more confidence in ther A Teamers to win after their B Teamers might lose. IPL, B Teamers have 5-0'd the best foreign teams time and time again. This leads me back again, if a football team sends in their B Team, no matter what the case, they aren't throwing the match. They are playing a legitimate game with specific intentions that are understandable and respectable. Even though a team might feel offended that the other team has enough confidence to not play them seriously, (eSports example: NesTea vs HuK), they played them fairly regardless. A real game was played in which both teams were trying, in some shape or form, to win. The B Teamers don't try to lose for the team they try to win, and although the team might not need the win, they are shooting for it nonetheless, even if they aren't trying their absolute hardest because the match isn't super important. I've seen plenty of NBA games where the entire starting lineup gets like 5 minutes of playing time, and then is sat for the rest of the game so they can play their best in the playoffs, and the team STILL WINS!!!! well, assuming you bought a ticket for the game (months before, otherwise you won't get it) and then because one team already qualified you will see b-teamers and not players like messi i guess you gonna be not to happy about it. sure the players will give their best, but it is not what the audience was looking for and paying for. as someone mentioned before, it would have been wiser for naniwa going double nexus, which would be basically the same namely throwing the game, but most likely without any consequences.
Yes, the fans might be a bit dissapointed, but how would you feel if you bought tickets and had to watch Messi or whoever you want score in his OWN net to give the game away to his opponent?
Thats's what I thought, I'd take a B-Teamer game over that any day.
If Naniwa reeeally didnt want to play that game he should have just asked GOM if he could forfeit that match. None of this would have happened.
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This is the stupidest thing GSL ever done.
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On December 15 2011 01:23 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game and if you don't agree with GOM rule, you can not participate, or face the consequences thinking and acting you are bigger than the organizer
Thats the problem tho, with the arbitrary rules of GOM. How would NaNi have known that he could get booted for probe rushing?
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EPT
