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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
Not surprised at all. Very reasonable punishment. Hopefully Naniwa learns something from it along with everyone else arguing on his behalf.
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I feel sorry for Naniwa but he should've just gone a proxy mothership rush or something else funky.
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On December 15 2011 01:15 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:12 SnoLys wrote:On December 15 2011 00:59 Derez wrote:
Can the thread title be renamed?
Seeing how Slasher (MLG representative and all) has stated that Nani wasn't actually awarded a code S slot for his providence performance, a more accurate title would be 'GomTV decides not to invite Naniwa to Code S January'. Is GOM trying to save face or did all this people got it wrong? From MLG own site news: http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/news/naniwas-ascensionUltimately he dropped the following four games, and despite not being crowned champion, Naniwa has presented one of the most captivating weeks imaginable, both in and out of the game. In the last week, Naniwa has rage quit of of a GSL match, flown half-way around the world, defeated the two most successful Korean Starcraft 2 players back-to-back, sparked a rivalry with Nestea, been the center of controversy in a rematch against Nestea, let a National Championship slip through his fingers and earned a seat in Code S. http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/news/going-out-with-a-bang-mlg-providence-starcraft-2-recapOver the last few months, Naniwa has been training hard over in Korea to take his game to the next level, and his hard work appeared to pay off in Providence. The 2nd Place finish was good enough to earn him a Code S spot, so keep an eye on this MLG Champion as he goes toe-to-toe with the world's best during the offseason. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/top-5-stories-from-mlg-providenceNaniwa, however, stayed focused on his goal. Amidst swirls of tabloid drama and misguided quotes, Naniwa kept his concentration on the task at hand. When his turn to enter the bracket finally rolled around, the Swedish Protoss defeated Nestea for the second time that weekend, and followed the feat with wins over Huk and DongRaeGu. In the end Naniwa failed to seal the deal as he lost four straight games against Leenock in the Grand Finals, but appeared to be a man with a renewed determination and a refined playstyle. With the pedigree Naniwa displayed over the weekend, it's hard not to be excited about Naniwa's 2012 prospects in Code S and at Major League Gaming Events. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-programPro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL
At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A.
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, within the Top 3, regardless of country of origin, who does not already have Code S status.
Code S status will not be awarded if all of the players placing 1st-3rd already have Code S Status.
Code A status will be awarded to the next three highest placing non-Korean players.
If Code S status is awarded to a Korean player, or not awarded at all, Code A status also will be awarded to the 4th highest placing non-Korean player.
From Complexity, his team at the time: http://www.complexitygaming.com/news/3270/Be sure to watch the GSL's Code S tournament as Naniwa secured himself a spot thanks to the MLG/GSL exchange program. http://esfiworld.com/sc2/news/naniwa-secures-top-3-finish-victory-over-hukNaniwa was able to secure a huge victory and guarantee at least a Top 3 finish in Providence. That placement will gives him a chance to secure Code S and continues the run of world class players that Naniwa has defeated over the course of the championship weekend in Providence. http://myeg.net/team/surprises-and-sadness-mlg-providence-day-3/NaNiwa has finally reestablished himself firmly as one of the world’s top Protoss – and earned himself a Code S spot to boot. They got it wrong.
and not one person MLG (isnt that who slasher works for) even tried fixing it or advising any different hence why everyone before today thought that nani was there because of the GSL/MLG exchange.
No one thought any different.
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On December 15 2011 01:23 BLinD-RawR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'm surprised no one has mentioned spoilers from today's blizzard cup interview
Well now that you said it!
Naniwa played a game yesterday that is not professional. I have heard that he threw away the game because it doesn't benefit himself. I want to lecture him. Pro-gamer as an occupation is not a job where you just play games between other pro players. Corporations sponsor us because the existence of fans make e-sports a product that we are trying to create. But I believe the behaviour from Naniwa yesterday was such a behaviour that betrayed and looked down on the fans. I hope he thinks about what he did and do not play a game like that again. - MC
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On December 15 2011 01:25 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:23 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game and if you don't agree with GOM rule, you can not participate, or face the consequences thinking and acting you are bigger than the organizer there is no such thing as match doesn't matter in GSL. every match matters to them, despite how you feel otherwise but to my understanding he didnt break any rule that was existing at the moment? the OP talks about abuse but that is a very veig rule that can be very missinturpirated lol
isn't this where precedent comes in? imagine if Naniwa gets away with a warning and someone else does the same thing (may not necessarily due to the same tournament format consequences etc.), then we'd be accusing GOM is double standards (for real!)
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On December 15 2011 01:26 Slin wrote:
Is there any way Nani can pursue legal action against GSL (or maybe MLG) for this obvious scam?
scam.............
This thread is more entertaining than Naniwa's match. Nice to see what people can call others.
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On December 15 2011 00:52 Mindor wrote:
Just adding my two cents as someone relatively new to esports...(I haven't been here for the BW scandal.)
Any sportsman that does any kind of sport as a profession do it because they are really good at it, have invested a lot of time and effort to become the best they can be and not because they are nice and respectable individuals. That's not a quality required to become the best of the best.
I'm not trying to justify Nani here, I even agree that what he did was very BM, however revoking anyone's right to play in a spot they deserve just kills the purpose of professional sport. People pay to see the best, not the best-behaved players. Therefore it should be the organizer's main goal to keep the best players around, regardless of their behavior. (I know, a lot of people claim he doesn't deserve to be there in the first place, but let's accept that Gom invited the selection of players they deemed most worthy.)
Go ahead and fine him, I'm sure it would still teach him to keep a leash on his temper while not interfering with his professional career. It's not a coincidence that in more convenctional professional sports there has to be a much bigger scandal than this to get bumped a league lower (and let's face it, it'll take a lot longer than a month for Nani to get back to Code S.)
I agree with you in part. There are always people who are arrogant in any type of sports.
Cantona
Matti Nykänen
Marty McSorley
etc.
The difference here, as many people has already stated. He didn't break any rules, a fine, a warning (and then changing the rules) or converting his code S into code A would be sufficient. It's not like he was deceptive of his intentions. He couldn't be more clear about not intending to play out a match that had no possibility to affect the result of their group.
I feel bad for not getting to watch the game I was looking forward to the most but at the same time I know that neither Nani or Nessie would have done anything to make the game go on longer than it needed.
I was looking forward to a hilarious cheese (pyloning in nesteas ramp, proxy gate in nesteas base) or some super strange tactic (triple nexus first, proxy carrier rush, fast mothership etc..).
But then again, Naniwa isn't a "for show player". If he can't win he doesn't play, simple as that.
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On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game
It seems we simply have a different idea of what a progamer is, it would seem GOM has a different view of what a progamer is. A pro-gamer to them is expected to play to win, give his all on televised matches, particularly when they are being rewarded for simply participating in the tournament, all of GOMs major tournaments have prizes trickling all the way down to just about anyone competing.
The format is another issue, I agree that it's stupid to have pointless games but that is not something to be protested on air like that.
There are very few situations where throwing a game can even be perceived as acceptable though none where it is seen as good sportsmanship, in some situations, winning a game may put you in a worse position in terms of the tournament, this is a case of a poorly designed format. This tournament was no such case, all Naniwa had to do was play his fucking game properly.
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On December 15 2011 01:25 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:20 mutton wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 eteran wrote:On December 15 2011 01:06 diophan wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 eteran wrote:On December 15 2011 00:55 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 00:53 eteran wrote:
If Naniwa was Zerg and would have been 7 Pooling a Terran, would he have lost his Code S spot? because this matters why? its quite obvious that he wasn't trying, his hand wasn't even on his keyboard the entire game beside the first 1-a move It matters because it has the same chance of winning and is a strategy that decides the game quickly. Yes, taking his hands off was over the top, agreed. But Naniwa was not raised in a culture where you're not supposed to show any emotions. He was very disappointed about losing the first three games so close - and they all all-inned him - what led to him showing emotions. I've seen someone win a GSL match after 6pooling (I think it was July). Have you ever seen anyone win with a probe rush in GSL, or even in a league higher than bronze? Nope, so it doesn't have the same chance of winning. I said 7 Pool vs. Terran for a reason. Make it 8 Pool or 9 Pool if you wish. IdrA 6 pooled Jinro in the GSL. It was a close game. Idra had a reason and told Artosis prior to the series that if it came to Jungle Basin he had planned to 6 pool ahead of time because the map was difficult for Zerg/
Well it sounds like he was trying to win then, eh?
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On December 15 2011 01:28 FrankWalls wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:26 foxmulder_ms wrote:
So good. I applaud for GSL doing this!
IF, you guys want SC2 to be a sport, you should have zero tolerance for throwing the games. Great decision, I 100% support this. it's pretty standard in pro sports for teams to not play their best players or goof around a bit if a game is meaningless. you see this a lot in the nfl at the end of the season. nobody ridicules them for that. ever. this naniwa situation is just the most extreme version of that
Cite sources please or it never happened.
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am i getting this right he probe rushed? no bm or nothing? and he is still kicked out of gsl? fuck it i was going to buy a year of gsl but damn. I dont want to watch a tournament where they can kick players out becuse they dont play like gom thinks they should
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Okey Naniwa is horrible for disrespecting korean culture. For 20 koreans to bail out of NASL is just fine though, no disrespect at all. Just endangered the entire NASL organization, but in a very respectful way of course.
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In WC3, Naniwa got banned from Dreamhack winter (for physically threatening a player!) and from the qualifiers of ESCW Sweden; he was also banned from two different tournaments of the ESL for his irresponsible/erratic behavior. At least five different teams decided to drop him or not to renew his contract because of the trouble he made: Fnatic, mTw, MyM, Dignitas, CoL. He acted mike a child in at least two huge tournaments (TSL3, tilting at the finals, then whining and refusing to go to the after-party) and MLG Providence insulting pretty much the entire organization on the main stage.
Naniwa simply doesn't know how to behave. As a spoiled brat, he thinks he can do whatever he wants on the main stage. He can't. He still doesn't get SC2 is also a business with huge organizations and sponsors. Instead of playing the devil's advocate, people should just realize Naniwa needs to acquire something called manners and good sense. Right now, he's unfit both for a serious gaming organization as for the corporate world.
Naniwa just needs to grow up, and his "fans"/"lawyers" should do the same. Informal rules of behavior are as important on any business as the written rules.
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United States23455 Posts
On December 15 2011 01:28 FrankWalls wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:26 foxmulder_ms wrote:
So good. I applaud for GSL doing this!
IF, you guys want SC2 to be a sport, you should have zero tolerance for throwing the games. Great decision, I 100% support this. it's pretty standard in pro sports for teams to not play their best players or goof around a bit if a game is meaningless. you see this a lot in the nfl at the end of the season. nobody ridicules them for that. ever. this naniwa situation is just the most extreme version of that
That comparison doesn't match.
If what you're saying happened, Naniwa would have done a goofy Mothership rush or something silly. Instead he just walked off the field.
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On December 15 2011 01:27 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:24 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:23 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:21 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:20 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:18 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:17 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:15 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:12 XRaDiiX wrote:
[quote]
So if this is true and Gom Sticks to the rule they enforced against Naniwa that means bomber should be banned from Code S/A for doing Mule Drops at end of Games... Double Standard GomTV Shame on them.
They are making up rules as they go along; to go as they see fit.
They are not being fair to NaNiwa
They had this kind of rule since the beginning, it was just not on paper because it was so obvious. And no one at the time would have suspected that someone could be THAT stupid to actually pull a Naniwa. Care to elaborate on how Mule Bombs are different than what NaNiwa did by doing a 6 probe rush Strategy. Because it's a ceremony before winning, like /dance command. And 6 probe rush is NOT A STRATEGY when you don't even bother to micro the probes to let their shields generate. There is no rules that state how to play the game and what strategy you 'have' to use. So 6 rush probe is actually completely within the rules. And it's not the strategy that is the issue here. It's about being earnest and being professional about your job, which is the obvious qualification of participating in GSL, not just your tournament wins and win/loss ratios. "Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter. It is official that Naniwa is given a punishment" Which Naniwa actually is given his attitude and douchebaggery displayed last night. He just showed his true colors, and Mr.Chae was just repeating the truth. Doesn't mean he can stoop to NaNiwas level and be unprofessional about it. Are you saying that Casters has to have a same standards of a professionalism as the Players?? He's a Caster FFS and was just announcing GOMTV's decision. Leave Nydus Chae out of this.
He runs the GSL not just a Caster
So you think its ok for Tournament Organizer CEO to say this about a player... because he 6 probe rushed..
"Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter. It is official that Naniwa is given a punishment"
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On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game if i was in naniwas position id request for a walkover, if not id drink 10 cups of coffee and get some food poisioning or some shit. because a player never wants to act serious in a game. because if he loses people think he played bad and serious, and if he wins, people know his build order. its a lose lose situation for a player to get into a situation where he has to play a televised game that doesnt matter
You should probably watch some real sports, especially soccer. Do you see players of a team that got eliminated in the champions league that have to play the last match just sits on the field ?? No, they try to play as better as they can even if they are playing against Barcelona/Milan/Inter ecc.
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On December 15 2011 01:28 FrankWalls wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:26 foxmulder_ms wrote:
So good. I applaud for GSL doing this!
IF, you guys want SC2 to be a sport, you should have zero tolerance for throwing the games. Great decision, I 100% support this. it's pretty standard in pro sports for teams to not play their best players or goof around a bit if a game is meaningless. you see this a lot in the nfl at the end of the season. nobody ridicules them for that. ever. this naniwa situation is just the most extreme version of that
the world doesn't revolve around the Americans. People and teams have been penalized all the time for purposely sending a weak team to lose on games that do not matter
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On December 15 2011 01:26 Slin wrote:
Is there any way Nani can pursue legal action against GSL (or maybe MLG) for this obvious scam?
You might want to check out this well known website called Reddit, because this kind of attitude doesn't fly on TeamLiquid i'm afraid.
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On December 15 2011 01:28 Biane wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:25 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:23 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game and if you don't agree with GOM rule, you can not participate, or face the consequences thinking and acting you are bigger than the organizer there is no such thing as match doesn't matter in GSL. every match matters to them, despite how you feel otherwise but to my understanding he didnt break any rule that was existing at the moment? the OP talks about abuse but that is a very veig rule that can be very missinturpirated lol isn't this where precedent comes in? imagine if Naniwa gets away with a warning and someone else does the same thing (may not necessarily due to the same tournament format consequences etc.), then we'd be accusing GOM is double standards (for real!)
If the rules are unclear this is the moment where professionals should make the rules more professional so that everyone knows exactly what the professional rules will be in the future and not punish retro-actively.
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EPT
