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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 01:29 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:28 FrankWalls wrote:On December 15 2011 01:26 foxmulder_ms wrote:
So good. I applaud for GSL doing this!
IF, you guys want SC2 to be a sport, you should have zero tolerance for throwing the games. Great decision, I 100% support this. it's pretty standard in pro sports for teams to not play their best players or goof around a bit if a game is meaningless. you see this a lot in the nfl at the end of the season. nobody ridicules them for that. ever. this naniwa situation is just the most extreme version of that Cite sources please or it never happened.
Can't cite any 'real' sports, but I know this happened at the end of NASL. No one seemed to care..
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On December 15 2011 01:28 Biane wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:25 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:23 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game and if you don't agree with GOM rule, you can not participate, or face the consequences thinking and acting you are bigger than the organizer there is no such thing as match doesn't matter in GSL. every match matters to them, despite how you feel otherwise but to my understanding he didnt break any rule that was existing at the moment? the OP talks about abuse but that is a very veig rule that can be very missinturpirated lol isn't this where precedent comes in? imagine if Naniwa gets away with a warning and someone else does the same thing (may not necessarily due to the same tournament format consequences etc.), then we'd be accusing GOM is double standards (for real!)
If you find out some rule is missing after an incident, you create it after the incident.
Punishing somebody for something that wasn't forbidden when he did it is wrong.
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On December 15 2011 01:30 FrankWalls wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:29 Fionn wrote:On December 15 2011 01:28 FrankWalls wrote:On December 15 2011 01:26 foxmulder_ms wrote:
So good. I applaud for GSL doing this!
IF, you guys want SC2 to be a sport, you should have zero tolerance for throwing the games. Great decision, I 100% support this. it's pretty standard in pro sports for teams to not play their best players or goof around a bit if a game is meaningless. you see this a lot in the nfl at the end of the season. nobody ridicules them for that. ever. this naniwa situation is just the most extreme version of that That comparison doesn't match. If what you're saying happened, Naniwa would have done a goofy Mothership rush or something silly. Instead he just walked off the field. jesus christ i said naniwa's situation is the most extreme version of the example i stated. of course the mothership thing compares more directly, but it doesnt change that it still applies
Yes, it really does change it and your point really didn't apply. If you use 2nd or 3rd string players in a game where you either 1) don't need to win or 2) absolutely can't win, those 2nd or 3rd string players still play. They still actually try to win, even if they aren't as good or are trying something that is likely to fail just because they need the experience. Nani did neither of these things.
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On December 15 2011 01:31 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:25 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:23 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game and if you don't agree with GOM rule, you can not participate, or face the consequences thinking and acting you are bigger than the organizer there is no such thing as match doesn't matter in GSL. every match matters to them, despite how you feel otherwise but to my understanding he didnt break any rule that was existing at the moment? the OP talks about abuse but that is a very veig rule that can be very missinturpirated lol I think you're missing the point though. It's not all about rules. In the end, code S was an "invite." Naniwa acted very unprofessionaly in blizzard cup, so gomtv decided to revoke that invite. Just like naniwa had the right to not play the game vs nestea, gomtv has the right to revoke the invite. I can see how this may seem ridiculous to foreigners, but as a Korean, I don't think it is. Respect is extremely important in Korea, especially when relating to professionalism.
to my knowledge it wasnt an invite? mlg was a qualfier to code s and code a?
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On December 15 2011 01:29 BlitzerSC wrote:
You should probably watch some real sports, especially soccer. Do you see players of a team that got eliminated in the champions league that have to play the last match just sits on the field ?? No, they try to play as better as they can even if they are playing against Barcelona/Milan/Inter ecc.
They usually play with B team players in such a case
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50601 Posts
doesn't the group stages of dreamhack have games where players who are down 0-2 play each other and the game itself does not matter?
why doesn't anyone complain about that?
fuck that look at the later stages of the NASL when players are so down on their groups,they still play a game with intent to win.
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Fake account that's not NaNiwas
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you have been trolled -->coL<--
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On December 15 2011 01:30 Paperplane wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:28 Biane wrote:On December 15 2011 01:25 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:23 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game and if you don't agree with GOM rule, you can not participate, or face the consequences thinking and acting you are bigger than the organizer there is no such thing as match doesn't matter in GSL. every match matters to them, despite how you feel otherwise but to my understanding he didnt break any rule that was existing at the moment? the OP talks about abuse but that is a very veig rule that can be very missinturpirated lol isn't this where precedent comes in? imagine if Naniwa gets away with a warning and someone else does the same thing (may not necessarily due to the same tournament format consequences etc.), then we'd be accusing GOM is double standards (for real!) If the rules are unclear this is the moment where professionals should make the rules more professional so that everyone knows exactly what the professional rules will be in the future and not punish retro-actively.
At the same time set an example of what might happen if you break these (future) set of rules. While this may bode well with us foreigners, it'll definitely cause more outrage than what you see here on the korean side/forums of things. GOM may have/be forced to 'offend' a good deal of their foreign fans, but if they outrage all their korean viewers, they may as well shut down then.
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Good move Mr Chae! lol like they lose viewership because a medicore player who's 0:1x ish in gsl isnt participating in code s, a spot which he didnt even earned yet and was still up to decide by gom. Maybe people should get their facts straight before whining.
Also as many said before he basically trolled (spat) on korean values and it's not the first time he has been disrespectful ( WC3 times, EPS, MLG Joke, recently complexity issue) he should just grow up.
Hopefully Startale refuses to practice with him, as well.
Still going to purchase a yearly premium ticket. Thx Mr Chae for upholding your principles.
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On December 15 2011 01:30 ptrpb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:27 S_SienZ wrote:On December 15 2011 01:25 sekritzzz wrote:On December 15 2011 01:23 S_SienZ wrote:
If Naniwa didn't sign anything with the GSL, then he isn't entitled to [sue for] his spot.
GSL-MLG exchange program is a contract between those two parties. Naniwa as a 3rd party shouldn't have a claim unless MLG is willing to back him up.
Just to throw it out there to the people saying Naniwa should sue. Actually he can sue. If MLG promises to give him a Code S spot which he earns due to ranking or whatever else, he is entitled to it by law. Maybe not from GOM, but MLG has to provide it for him or they can liable. LOL. Promises alone are not enforceable by law. Otherwise you'd get a major legal clusterfuck in the world. That's why you have contracts. Look up Promissory Estopel, if a party has made significant sacrifices that are unchangeable and grave enough. The promisor can be sued for not following through. It's rarely rewarded because the requirements are really specific and it probably wouldn't be enforced in this case, but I just wanted to let you know that you're wrong 
I also know that promissory estoppel can only be used as a shield and never a sword. You can't use it to claim something, only to defend what you already have.
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This is absolutely pathetic on the part of GSL/Gom/Whoever actioned him
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On December 15 2011 01:31 FrankWalls wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:30 zala2023 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:28 FrankWalls wrote:On December 15 2011 01:26 foxmulder_ms wrote:
So good. I applaud for GSL doing this!
IF, you guys want SC2 to be a sport, you should have zero tolerance for throwing the games. Great decision, I 100% support this. it's pretty standard in pro sports for teams to not play their best players or goof around a bit if a game is meaningless. you see this a lot in the nfl at the end of the season. nobody ridicules them for that. ever. this naniwa situation is just the most extreme version of that a bit too extreme in my opinion its like having the players give up on the spot and take a nap on the field while the other team score the free win lol but the extremity is relative and abstract. unless there is a SPECIFIC rule against it then you cant just punish someone for doing what naniwa did.
I have no problem with what naniwa did (and i think most ppl arent offended at all by what he did)
but i can imagine that gomtv and nestea probably thought naniwa was shitting on them and they wont take that lol
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Wasn't naniwa a homeless kid who only had wc3 in his life? How can gom expect him to be as professional as other professionals? You gotta cut him some slack for his background.
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On December 15 2011 01:29 BlitzerSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game if i was in naniwas position id request for a walkover, if not id drink 10 cups of coffee and get some food poisioning or some shit. because a player never wants to act serious in a game. because if he loses people think he played bad and serious, and if he wins, people know his build order. its a lose lose situation for a player to get into a situation where he has to play a televised game that doesnt matter You should probably watch some real sports, especially soccer. Do you see players of a team that got eliminated in the champions league that have to play the last match just sits on the field ?? No, they try to play as better as they can even if they are playing against Barcelona/Milan/Inter ecc.
No they play with their B-team instead....... Pointless point you are trying to make. Since the players have something to gain from these games they can improve their chances for a spot in the staring line up for the next game, and some of them might even have salaries depending on how many games they play. So dont make retarded arguments please since Naniwa had nothing to gain from that game.
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Ok so here is the Deciding Question for me: Did Naniwa EARN the Spot in GSL Code S?
I know slasher says no, i have seen ALL THE DIFFERENT older MLG quotes....
SO: Did naniwa earn the spot?
IF yes: It's a shitty move for 2 reasons: a) blizzard cup is not code S (inb4 gom is one company, yes but the cups are not)
b) I realise they quoted this rule because its only semi-legitimate way to succed but you open a door you will never be able to close again. Now we the masses can decide with our shitstorms who gets banned...
If no: Perfect move by gom to uninvite a player who doesnt fit their sportmanship and behaviour standarts.
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On December 15 2011 01:32 parazice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:28 Waste wrote:
This is just WRONG seriously, zero compassion. Just a all out terrible decision this also makes the GSL such a worse show in my opinion.
The RIGHT decision would have been a warning, GSL just lost a huge chunk of respect, Mr Chae better yourself please or please find someone else more up for the job with any sense at all.
So little respect for Nani, think about all the hours he put down (actually one of the most hardworking people in the entire community). People at the GSL should think about this community as a modern one, let's face it we love that bm and shit. This is not Brood War.
NANIWA FIGHTING <3 i am so sick of blind fan boy
such one sided thought. think about all the hours he put down? think about all the hours, GOM spent to setup that tourney in which he put all those hours into....
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EPT
