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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 01:28 FrankWalls wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:26 foxmulder_ms wrote:
So good. I applaud for GSL doing this!
IF, you guys want SC2 to be a sport, you should have zero tolerance for throwing the games. Great decision, I 100% support this. it's pretty standard in pro sports for teams to not play their best players or goof around a bit if a game is meaningless. you see this a lot in the nfl at the end of the season. nobody ridicules them for that. ever. this naniwa situation is just the most extreme version of that
a bit too extreme in my opinion
its like having the players give up on the spot and take a nap on the field while the other team score the free win lol
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On December 15 2011 01:28 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:25 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:23 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game and if you don't agree with GOM rule, you can not participate, or face the consequences thinking and acting you are bigger than the organizer there is no such thing as match doesn't matter in GSL. every match matters to them, despite how you feel otherwise but to my understanding he didnt break any rule that was existing at the moment? the OP talks about abuse but that is a very veig rule that can be very missinturpirated lol again, how is match making not breaking any rules?
match making is only relevant if the game has any impact what so ever in the actual tournament. this is not match making
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On December 15 2011 01:25 zala2023 wrote:
I can understand gomtv's decisions
For example, if the losing team in a NBA game gives up and decides to sit on the court for 10 minutes for the game to end, do you think they will get away unpunished as professional sports players?
Here we have Naniwa, a top tier protoss, playing in a world class tournament against Nestea, randomly 1a his probes and take his hands off the keyboard on live stream, he should have seen his punishment coming
I think most people are not offended, but its just that Naniwa was not in a position to get away with showingoff/trolling gomtv
Exactly. I can understand that a lot of people were not offended, but it doesn't mean what Naniwa has done is all right and should get away unpunished. The NBA example is a very good comparison.
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On December 15 2011 01:29 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:28 FrankWalls wrote:On December 15 2011 01:26 foxmulder_ms wrote:
So good. I applaud for GSL doing this!
IF, you guys want SC2 to be a sport, you should have zero tolerance for throwing the games. Great decision, I 100% support this. it's pretty standard in pro sports for teams to not play their best players or goof around a bit if a game is meaningless. you see this a lot in the nfl at the end of the season. nobody ridicules them for that. ever. this naniwa situation is just the most extreme version of that That comparison doesn't match. If what you're saying happened, Naniwa would have done a goofy Mothership rush or something silly. Instead he just walked off the field.
jesus christ i said naniwa's situation is the most extreme version of the example i stated. of course the mothership thing compares more directly, but it doesnt change that it still applies
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The arguments about rules and tournament format don't seem relevant. I don't think NaNiwa got this punishment just because he threw the game. He threw a game in a special end-of-the-year-celebration event displaying some of the best SC2 players. It was supposed to be more a bunch of very high level showmatches than a regular tournament. Throwing a match in this context, he displayed his disregard for anything but the prize money : his team, his opponent, his fans, the public, the game itself, GomTV...
His point of view is understandable (bad mindset after losing 3 sets, "pointless" set etc) but he didn't think about the big picture. He was on stage, with a lot of people & logistics involved just to cast him play, and he let everyone down by refusing to perform just because it wouldn't make him win more money. I think that's why Mr. Chae called him a "prize money hunter", and why GomTV reacted as they did.
I am a NaNiwa fan, i actually found his probe rush funny but it wasn't the right time and place to do it.
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On December 15 2011 01:27 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:25 sekritzzz wrote:On December 15 2011 01:23 S_SienZ wrote:
If Naniwa didn't sign anything with the GSL, then he isn't entitled to [sue for] his spot.
GSL-MLG exchange program is a contract between those two parties. Naniwa as a 3rd party shouldn't have a claim unless MLG is willing to back him up.
Just to throw it out there to the people saying Naniwa should sue. Actually he can sue. If MLG promises to give him a Code S spot which he earns due to ranking or whatever else, he is entitled to it by law. Maybe not from GOM, but MLG has to provide it for him or they can liable. LOL. Promises alone are not enforceable by law. Otherwise you'd get a major legal clusterfuck in the world. That's why you have contracts.
Look up Promissory Estopel, if a party has made significant sacrifices that are unchangeable and grave enough. The promisor can be sued for not following through.
It's rarely rewarded because the requirements are really specific and it probably wouldn't be enforced in this case, but I just wanted to let you know that you're wrong 
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On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game if i was in naniwas position id request for a walkover, if not id drink 10 cups of coffee and get some food poisioning or some shit. because a player never wants to act serious in a game. because if he loses people think he played bad and serious, and if he wins, people know his build order. its a lose lose situation for a player to get into a situation where he has to play a televised game that doesnt matter
This is one of those mentalities that will separate pro SC from other professional competitive events for a while still. In every single major athletic sport in the world, it's incredibly shameful to stop trying even if you have absolutely no chance of winning or even if winning wouldn't matter. Nani could have tried out some crazy strategies he'd been practicing but hadn't yet had a chance to compete with or something else, but no, he just threw the game away in a very unprofessional way. At the end of the day, the only reason that you have a job is because you winning is entertaining. Once the entertainment stops is when the money stops, so acting like this and then saying that you have no responsibility to be entertaining the crowd at all is incredibly naive. Every commercial sport in the world is in the same boat.
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On December 15 2011 01:28 FrankWalls wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:26 foxmulder_ms wrote:
So good. I applaud for GSL doing this!
IF, you guys want SC2 to be a sport, you should have zero tolerance for throwing the games. Great decision, I 100% support this. it's pretty standard in pro sports for teams to not play their best players or goof around a bit if a game is meaningless. you see this a lot in the nfl at the end of the season. nobody ridicules them for that. ever. this naniwa situation is just the most extreme version of that
Throwing a game is not the same as not sending out your best players all the time. Just like if you're playing some scrub in the first round of a tournament you don't use your best build, which you just developed.
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On December 15 2011 01:26 foxmulder_ms wrote:
So good. I applaud GSL for doing this!
IF, you guys want SC2 to be a sport, you should have zero tolerance for throwing the games. Great decision, I 100% support this.
FFS, it's not about throwing games. Stop saying it is, no one truly believes this.
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On December 15 2011 01:25 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:23 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game and if you don't agree with GOM rule, you can not participate, or face the consequences thinking and acting you are bigger than the organizer there is no such thing as match doesn't matter in GSL. every match matters to them, despite how you feel otherwise but to my understanding he didnt break any rule that was existing at the moment? the OP talks about abuse but that is a very veig rule that can be very missinturpirated lol
I think you're missing the point though.
It's not all about rules. In the end, code S was an "invite."
Naniwa acted very unprofessionaly in blizzard cup, so gomtv decided to revoke that invite.
Just like naniwa had the right to not play the game vs nestea, gomtv has the right to revoke the invite.
I can see how this may seem ridiculous to foreigners, but as a Korean, I don't think it is.
Respect is extremely important in Korea, especially when relating to professionalism.
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On December 15 2011 01:30 zala2023 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:28 FrankWalls wrote:On December 15 2011 01:26 foxmulder_ms wrote:
So good. I applaud for GSL doing this!
IF, you guys want SC2 to be a sport, you should have zero tolerance for throwing the games. Great decision, I 100% support this. it's pretty standard in pro sports for teams to not play their best players or goof around a bit if a game is meaningless. you see this a lot in the nfl at the end of the season. nobody ridicules them for that. ever. this naniwa situation is just the most extreme version of that a bit too extreme in my opinion its like having the players give up on the spot and take a nap on the field while the other team score the free win lol
but the extremity is relative and abstract. unless there is a SPECIFIC rule against it then you cant just punish someone for doing what naniwa did.
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On December 15 2011 01:27 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:25 sekritzzz wrote:On December 15 2011 01:23 S_SienZ wrote:
If Naniwa didn't sign anything with the GSL, then he isn't entitled to [sue for] his spot.
GSL-MLG exchange program is a contract between those two parties. Naniwa as a 3rd party shouldn't have a claim unless MLG is willing to back him up.
Just to throw it out there to the people saying Naniwa should sue. Actually he can sue. If MLG promises to give him a Code S spot which he earns due to ranking or whatever else, he is entitled to it by law. Maybe not from GOM, but MLG has to provide it for him or they can liable. I highly doubt he has any grounds on it, pretty sure all the contracts they sign gave them the rights to terminate
I'm not a lawyer but i'm pretty certain you can't withdraw a promise you make without a valid reason on sound basis. MLG can't promise to pay players 50,000$ to players if they win tournaments then once a player wins have the right to take away the money because they have the right to terminate. Not to mention, appeals would destroy MLG in any court.
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On December 15 2011 01:29 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:27 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:24 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:23 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:21 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:20 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:18 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:17 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:15 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 JiPrime wrote:
[quote]
They had this kind of rule since the beginning, it was just not on paper because it was so obvious.
And no one at the time would have suspected that someone could be THAT stupid to actually pull a Naniwa. Care to elaborate on how Mule Bombs are different than what NaNiwa did by doing a 6 probe rush Strategy. Because it's a ceremony before winning, like /dance command. And 6 probe rush is NOT A STRATEGY when you don't even bother to micro the probes to let their shields generate. There is no rules that state how to play the game and what strategy you 'have' to use. So 6 rush probe is actually completely within the rules. And it's not the strategy that is the issue here. It's about being earnest and being professional about your job, which is the obvious qualification of participating in GSL, not just your tournament wins and win/loss ratios. "Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter. It is official that Naniwa is given a punishment" Which Naniwa actually is given his attitude and douchebaggery displayed last night. He just showed his true colors, and Mr.Chae was just repeating the truth. Doesn't mean he can stoop to NaNiwas level and be unprofessional about it. Are you saying that Casters has to have a same standards of a professionalism as the Players?? He's a Caster FFS and was just announcing GOMTV's decision. Leave Nydus Chae out of this. He runs the GSL not just a Caster
He didn't make the decision by his OWN.
He just stated the collective decision made by his organization.
Sure, I don't deny that he has the loudest voice in the matter, but even he wouldn't ignore what other staffs has to say about it.
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On December 15 2011 01:30 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:28 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:25 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:23 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game and if you don't agree with GOM rule, you can not participate, or face the consequences thinking and acting you are bigger than the organizer there is no such thing as match doesn't matter in GSL. every match matters to them, despite how you feel otherwise but to my understanding he didnt break any rule that was existing at the moment? the OP talks about abuse but that is a very veig rule that can be very missinturpirated lol again, how is match making not breaking any rules? match making is only relevant if the game has any impact what so ever in the actual tournament. this is not match making
match fixing is match fixing. Just because the game isn't important doesn't mean its not match fixing.
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On December 15 2011 01:28 Waste wrote:
This is just WRONG seriously, zero compassion. Just a all out terrible decision this also makes the GSL such a worse show in my opinion.
The RIGHT decision would have been a warning, GSL just lost a huge chunk of respect, Mr Chae better yourself please or please find someone else more up for the job with any sense at all.
So little respect for Nani, think about all the hours he put down (actually one of the most hardworking people in the entire community). People at the GSL should think about this community as a modern one, let's face it we love that bm and shit. This is not Brood War.
NANIWA FIGHTING <3
i am so sick of blind fan boy
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On December 15 2011 01:25 sekritzzz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:23 S_SienZ wrote:
If Naniwa didn't sign anything with the GSL, then he isn't entitled to [sue for] his spot.
GSL-MLG exchange program is a contract between those two parties. Naniwa as a 3rd party shouldn't have a claim unless MLG is willing to back him up.
Just to throw it out there to the people saying Naniwa should sue. Actually he can sue. If MLG promises to give him a Code S spot which he earns due to ranking or whatever else, he is entitled to it by law. Maybe not from GOM, but MLG has to provide it for him or they can liable.
lol, do you really think he would win a law suit against GOM? For one thing, he did break a rule in that he DID disrespect NesTea. If you don't understand how or why he disrespected NesTea, you just shouldn't post anything on here at all because you don't understand the very basis of the situation.
Even if he wouldn't have broken a rule, I'm sure it's quite legal for GOM to ban a player for reasons they find suitable. "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" "We Uphold Our Right To Refuse Service To Anyone" signs can be found at stores all over. The same can be said by GOM. They don't have to sit around and be belittled by some foreigner punk. If MLG were to sue GOM, then the very most could happen is GOM would let MLG send a new player instead of NaNiWa.
NaNi would get absolutely nothing out of a lawsuit. Which is why I would LOVE to see NaNi file one against GOM. I'll grab my bag of popcorn and watch as he makes an even bigger fool of himself.
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I think it is funny that those supporting the NaNiwa ban are acting as if they are model citizens. If you are, I apologize, but it seems to me that nobody is perfect. "Let those without sin cast the first stone"
Also, not sure how many sports fans are out there, but this can be directed at the people who say that this kind of 'unprofessionalism' does not happen outside of Starcraft.. Lee Corso (major sports figure in America for being a host of Gameday, a famous pre-game show following college football) recently goofed up on air and dropped an 'F-bomb'. He apologized and went on his way.
It seems the unprofessionalism comes from the other end, the administrative end. Acts similar to NaNiwa's may occur in the 'real world' more often than you think, but because of how common they are they are not exploded out of proportion as we see here.
I could go on about fines in sports, suspensions, etc. These things happen everywhere. It is up to the leagues to come up with a suitable form of punishment instead of jumping the gun and banning a player from the highest stage of competition in Starcraft 2.
GL NaNiwa, do not let this get you down! Let it drive you to get back to the status you deserve.
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I'm done watching GSL. I'm super pissed by this.
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EPT
