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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 01:28 FrankWalls wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:26 foxmulder_ms wrote:
So good. I applaud for GSL doing this!
IF, you guys want SC2 to be a sport, you should have zero tolerance for throwing the games. Great decision, I 100% support this. it's pretty standard in pro sports for teams to not play their best players or goof around a bit if a game is meaningless. you see this a lot in the nfl at the end of the season. nobody ridicules them for that. ever. this naniwa situation is just the most extreme version of that
Yeah... But they play it full time and they just dont let the other team win the game. If they do, it is called match-fixing.
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On December 15 2011 01:33 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:31 Namu wrote:On December 15 2011 01:25 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:23 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game and if you don't agree with GOM rule, you can not participate, or face the consequences thinking and acting you are bigger than the organizer there is no such thing as match doesn't matter in GSL. every match matters to them, despite how you feel otherwise but to my understanding he didnt break any rule that was existing at the moment? the OP talks about abuse but that is a very veig rule that can be very missinturpirated lol I think you're missing the point though. It's not all about rules. In the end, code S was an "invite." Naniwa acted very unprofessionaly in blizzard cup, so gomtv decided to revoke that invite. Just like naniwa had the right to not play the game vs nestea, gomtv has the right to revoke the invite. I can see how this may seem ridiculous to foreigners, but as a Korean, I don't think it is. Respect is extremely important in Korea, especially when relating to professionalism. to my knowledge it wasnt an invite? mlg was a qualfier to code s and code a?
Slasher confirmed that it wasn't the case.
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On December 15 2011 01:33 Zandar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:29 BlitzerSC wrote:
You should probably watch some real sports, especially soccer. Do you see players of a team that got eliminated in the champions league that have to play the last match just sits on the field ?? No, they try to play as better as they can even if they are playing against Barcelona/Milan/Inter ecc. They usually play with B team players in such a case
But they still play and those B-teamers still try to win, unlike Nani.
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On December 15 2011 01:28 FrankWalls wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:26 foxmulder_ms wrote:
So good. I applaud for GSL doing this!
IF, you guys want SC2 to be a sport, you should have zero tolerance for throwing the games. Great decision, I 100% support this. it's pretty standard in pro sports for teams to not play their best players or goof around a bit if a game is meaningless. you see this a lot in the nfl at the end of the season. nobody ridicules them for that. ever. this naniwa situation is just the most extreme version of that
They REST their best players for more meaningful games... THEY DO NOT throw the game by letting the other team win. They let their rookies gain experience, etc. Naniwa wasted everyones time plus dissed GOMTV and it's fans.
Honestly if he 4gated like he said he should have he would have had a spot still. I am sure they can do what they want and if their is legal action(that naniwa can take) than it will follow.
I just think it was quite unprofessional. Life goes on.
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this entire debate exists because of the cultural differences . i think most people would agree that, that is what is causing all this debate and that is fine but we have to realize then that this happened in Korea.
It was a korean tournament. you play by their rules . and they ultimately have the right to decide the punishment.
if you give a middle finger in America at someone, you cannot be excused on the basis that giving the middle finger means nothing in their own culture .
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On December 15 2011 01:34 Paperplane wrote:
Wasn't naniwa a homeless kid who only had wc3 in his life? How can gom expect him to be as professional as other professionals? You gotta cut him some slack for his background.
No, no slack-cutting can be given when one is a professional.
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On December 15 2011 01:33 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:31 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:30 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:28 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:25 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:23 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:
[quote]
you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D)
also you dont ban someone for looking bored
this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game and if you don't agree with GOM rule, you can not participate, or face the consequences thinking and acting you are bigger than the organizer there is no such thing as match doesn't matter in GSL. every match matters to them, despite how you feel otherwise but to my understanding he didnt break any rule that was existing at the moment? the OP talks about abuse but that is a very veig rule that can be very missinturpirated lol again, how is match making not breaking any rules? match making is only relevant if the game has any impact what so ever in the actual tournament. this is not match making match making is match making. Just because the game isn't important doesn't mean its not match making. so cella should be banned for doing a bunch of silly shit on ladder which have 0% win chance for match making even though it doesnt matter at all?
ladder != tourney? there is no one regulating ladder
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heres how life is.
if you act like a dick
karmas going to come back at you
Lets look at it this way.
currently GSL is the SC2 channel in Korea.
All the koreans watch this so they can get their fill for SC2
GSL/GOMtv is a Business
Naniwa is a pawn in the business.
Naniwas job is to give SC2 games because he is a PRO, that is why he is THERE
Naniwa DID NOT fulfill his job. You cannot call that a game of sending probes.
Please dont say this is even a legitimate strategy, thats just some technical bullcrock. Would you even do it on ladder?
GSL was like well **** you, you dont make our business look good peace
/Endofthisnaniwa
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Based on the Actions GomTV took i guess its ok to ban people for 6 pool or Manner Mule kk
Making up rules as you go along extremely unprofessional by Mr Chae.... i don't know what to say about rash harsh decision to ban NaNiwa this is huge mistake considering players are free to to whatever strategy they see fit...
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Nani got what was coming. He got banned for one season. It's fairly standard for sporting organizations to have similar "standards of conduct" rules (see NFL) and similar punishments. It's also common for any company you work for to have a standards of conduct document that's over 20 pages long. Life goes on. For those of you raging about the injustice of his dismissal, good luck dealing with the rest of the real world.
The only injustice that took place are random foreigners being handed free code S spots that others (foreigner or Korean) have worked so hard for.
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I like Naniwa but think what he did is not in the best interest of esports. This seems more like a 1 GSL suspension to me. I look forward to seeing him back in action and wish him the best!
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On December 15 2011 01:33 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:30 ptrpb wrote:On December 15 2011 01:27 S_SienZ wrote:On December 15 2011 01:25 sekritzzz wrote:On December 15 2011 01:23 S_SienZ wrote:
If Naniwa didn't sign anything with the GSL, then he isn't entitled to [sue for] his spot.
GSL-MLG exchange program is a contract between those two parties. Naniwa as a 3rd party shouldn't have a claim unless MLG is willing to back him up.
Just to throw it out there to the people saying Naniwa should sue. Actually he can sue. If MLG promises to give him a Code S spot which he earns due to ranking or whatever else, he is entitled to it by law. Maybe not from GOM, but MLG has to provide it for him or they can liable. LOL. Promises alone are not enforceable by law. Otherwise you'd get a major legal clusterfuck in the world. That's why you have contracts. Look up Promissory Estopel, if a party has made significant sacrifices that are unchangeable and grave enough. The promisor can be sued for not following through. It's rarely rewarded because the requirements are really specific and it probably wouldn't be enforced in this case, but I just wanted to let you know that you're wrong  I also know that promissory estoppel can only be used as a shield and never a sword. You can't use it to claim something, only to defend what you already have.
If you know that then you don't need to run around TL stating blatant lies and over-exaggeration. If you have the knowledge, use it. We don't need more people saying things that aren't true around here
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Good Job ! Gom tv. naniwa was complaining how there is no punishment. Well now there is.
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On December 15 2011 01:35 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:34 Xax wrote:On December 15 2011 01:33 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:31 Namu wrote:On December 15 2011 01:25 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:23 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:
[quote]
you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D)
also you dont ban someone for looking bored
this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game and if you don't agree with GOM rule, you can not participate, or face the consequences thinking and acting you are bigger than the organizer there is no such thing as match doesn't matter in GSL. every match matters to them, despite how you feel otherwise but to my understanding he didnt break any rule that was existing at the moment? the OP talks about abuse but that is a very veig rule that can be very missinturpirated lol I think you're missing the point though. It's not all about rules. In the end, code S was an "invite." Naniwa acted very unprofessionaly in blizzard cup, so gomtv decided to revoke that invite. Just like naniwa had the right to not play the game vs nestea, gomtv has the right to revoke the invite. I can see how this may seem ridiculous to foreigners, but as a Korean, I don't think it is. Respect is extremely important in Korea, especially when relating to professionalism. to my knowledge it wasnt an invite? mlg was a qualfier to code s and code a? Slasher confirmed that it wasn't the case. Again, slasher lied. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294713¤tpage=208#4154
How do you explain that there were neither Code A seeds nor Korean Invites?
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On December 15 2011 01:35 XRaDiiX wrote:
Based on the Actions GomTV took i guess its ok to ban people for 6 pool or Manner Mule kk
Making up rules as you go along extremely unprofessional by Mr Chae.... i don't know what to say about rash harsh decision to ban NaNiwa this is huge mistake considering players are free to to whatever strategy they see fit...
you can stop repeating the same thing over and over troll.
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On December 15 2011 01:25 Dr3wJuice wrote:
I think its unfortunate that he got banned but it is entirely within GOM's rights. He was invited to play in their tournaments and give his best efforts. If you don't like the format because at a certain point it might be possible for you to not advance even if you win then don't accept the invitation. He may not have broken any rule that GOM has in place right now, but this is how rules are made. People don't usually have rules for things that shouldn't happen, especially by someone who is a professional. GOM takes their tournaments seriously because that is how they make money from subscriptions and advertisers. The saw what happened and decided they didn't like it so they punished him for it. New rules are made by having to punish one person first. That is life.
I pretty much agree with this. Getting his Code S seed revoked is pretty harsh but at least he isn't banned from the tournament. While I understand Naniwa's perspective and obvious frustration with the situation, he should've played out the game instead of essentially insulting GOM after they invited him to the tournament.
I do think the tournament format is flawed and there should never be these pointless or meaningless games played (in any tournament, really).
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This ticks me off big time. Naniwa put's his heart and soul into his gameplay. Sure he may be a dick at times and what not, but no one can deny his love. He didn't do anything to directly offend anyone. He didn't want to play, they wouldn't give him a walk over, he ended his game as soon as possible, said GG and left. I will not be purchasing a GOMTV ticket for awhile.
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EPT
