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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 01:12 hypercube wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:08 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:05 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 MrCon wrote:
Will then ban Hero from GSL, canon rushing after pool is done and building canons at the watchtower ?
If the difference between 2 thrown games is the amount of buildings built, they should state it more clearly. This.... Double Standard = GomTV! What people like you don't realize that it was the ATTITUDE and the METHOD of the player that made him cross the line, not the deed. Maybe that's the problem. It reveals that they value "entertainment" over competition. It's their tournament so they can if they want to. But they will get called out on their bs about "respect".
This is true. I think Naniwa is ahead of the times, he is a true professional who doesn't want to waste time on a bullshit match. Why would he take the chance of revealing anything about his playstyle for a meaningless match. GomTV needs to respect players more, rather than appeasing butthurt (anti)fans. Like others have said, I am a Naniwa fan and I found that shit hilarious.
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On December 15 2011 01:12 diophan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:03 schI2ler wrote:On December 15 2011 01:01 Shinta) wrote:On December 15 2011 00:51 Naeroon wrote:Can somebody answer a quick Q I got about this situation? I know it says that NaNiWa is only kicked out of a single season. But it also says his Code S seed is revoked - does this mean that his Code S seed is revoked only for a single season, or is it COMPLETELY revoked and he has to completely earn it back? Thanks in advance  He is no longer Code S, period. He earned that spot in MLG.... SO what is the MLG GOM deal worth? Nothing? I can just say: look you deserve this rank, our fans dont like you, you dont get that spot? MLG loses its reputation. They can never again say their winners get a gsl spot... well maybe they will... mlg doesnt know I guess if you get awarded a spot, you are allowed to do whatever you want in the interim and you have an absolute right to it? GOM has given everyone else their GSL seeds, so don't act like they don't actually fulfill the bargain.
Actually i think exactly that. If i get awarded a spot, and I take it, it is MY spot. And if I want to put on a pink chicken dress and dance the shuffle while this match happens, I should be able to do it, because i earned that spot. It is MINE, garantueed by a contract.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50114 Posts
On December 15 2011 01:16 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:15 JinDesu wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 Sylailene wrote:
Just another example of Koreans trying to act better than everyone else, in an American game at that, what he did wasn't against any rules This is pretty racist, people should not generalize Koreans as such. like everybody who agree with GOMTV is generalizing sweds right now?
you see me generalizing with sweds?
don't generalize, both of you.
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On December 15 2011 01:13 BioGenie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:04 dawnstone wrote:- During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours This is my first post on TL but that dosent mean i have not followed the SC2 scene since the beginning. I have been a lurker on TL since the SC2 beta and have followed every GSL tournament, MLG, DH and so on. The problem i have with Naniwa losing his Code S spot(from my understanding at least he had a code S spot from the MLG and GSL exchange program) is the rule it self that he lost it on. What was it about with the worker rush that was abusive? What I mean is with other strategies he would have a bigger chance of winning but is the reason for choosing a bad strategy a reason for a ban? But lets say he did not plan on winning the game that he just throw it away is that so serious in this case? Idra have fore fitted games that did not have any meaning. Did not Stephano more or less throw away games in a tournament that actually did change the outcome of the group and he did not get any shit for that. I believe that why this is so big is because Naniwa had so many haters already and because he is a controversial player. In a much general point if Esport wanna consider it self as a "real" sport we have to use parallels to other sports as well. Not wanting to win or not caring if you win or loses have always been a factor in sports. In the 70s don't remeber what year it was did not Austria and another country just stand in the middle of the field for 30 mins during the last game of the world cup since both teams knew that if the match would draw both teams would advance to the play offs. Football teams don't always use their best players for every single game and so on. In the Olympics 2006 Sweden lost on purpose in the last game of the group stage just to get an easier opponent for the next round. The people to blame for this whole scenario with Naniwa and Nestea is GOMTV acording to not make sure that every game has a meaning. Just to have a SC2 game broadcasted without a meaning of it is just begging for problems and then punish the player for not taking it serious is even worse when they easily could have foreseen this scenario or even worse scenarios when they were planing this tournament. It would have been worse to have one player with no reason to win against another who has everything to win on the game(I am glad we dident have to see that at least). And for the quote i dont think Naniwa did anything abusive, what he might have done is offend GOM but they deserved it this one time. Lets put this in perspective. In Korea, E Sports is already a professional entity. The very word "KESPA" to BW players sums it up. I don know if you realise the amount of dedication and effort these guys put into presenting and producing the entire event. And have you taken a look around at the sponsors and prize pool thats presented EVERY SINGLE GOM HOSTED event? Now, take that and put it into their economic terms. To win a GSL / Blizz Cup the winner would stand to earn 30 Grand. An Architect / Lawyer earns approximately 36 - 48 Grand a Year. Now tell me. If your company put in so much effort to garner the support of sponsors; hiring a team that runs the event; paying foreign casters; flying these people out to Korea to compete. Would you accept someone pissing all over it because there is nothing to play for?
Yes i would If I worked in an organisation that had fucked up which i think that GOM did do this time. In my opinion GOM as an organisation has failed not Naniwa for being put in that situation.
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Canada13389 Posts
I think people need to remember something:
The GSL is Korean. Korean sensibilities will prevail - Naniwa did not act in accordance with what the gsl expects from a professional player. The player is there to play and this was a special event. This wasn't a tournament in the traditional sense so the games are being played to a certain extent for the fans. His inappropriate action (which took the this game is worth nothing to the extreme) brought with it a storm of comments from the korean fans. GSL has few options in how they respond to the issue. They can't rely solely on the foreigner viewers to keep their company going so they can't just come out and say its ok. The foreigners are more likely to let this pass and keep watching GSL than the koreans anyway. We may not agree but we can understand/forget. Korean fans, if nothing happened, would be more confused and less likely to understand.
Why would koreans care more if naniwa stayed in than foreigners care if naniwa gets kicked out? Becuase culturally they expect their korean counterparts (GSL) to act in accordance with their shared cultural values. We as foreigners should have come to expect that they will act on their Eastern cultural values so this kind of decision is less of a "shock" so to say.
Also: the foreigner community is more split than the korean community seemed to be so this decision pleases the most people on both sides of the pacific
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This isn't MLG this is the GSL live in Korea. At that point his job is an entertainer. No body wants to watch someone half ass a game. GSL would of looked like a push over if they let him do that.
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On December 15 2011 01:11 Skyreaper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:05 NHY wrote:On December 14 2011 23:56 anomalopidae wrote:I do not understand this The agreement clearly states that he should be awarded Code S spot, it says so even on GOM page http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/65291Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A. At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows: Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status. Code A status will be awarded to the next 3 highest placing non-Korean players. If Code S status is awarded to a Korean player, Code A status also will be awarded to the 4th highest placing non-Korean player. All travel and accommodation expenses for these players will be provided by the GSL. Keep reading and you'll find this GSL Pro Players Competing on the MLG Pro Circuit
-MLG will invite four Korean pro players to each Pro Circuit Live Competition.
-These players will be placed directly into the Championship Pools, one into each Pool.
-Their placement in the Pools will be determined by their GSL rank.
-All travel and accomodation expenses for these players will be provided by MLG.
-For MLG Columbus, we will also be inviting a player from the CSN tournament, currently in progress. This player will be seeded into the Open Bracket, and their travel and accomodation expenses will be covered by CSN. Did that also happen in Providence? No. So there was no MLG-GSL exchange in Providence. How can so many people miss this? You'd know just from reading it that it is impossible to apply it to providence since there are no championship pools, By @Ethan_Ahn Translation : The important thing is.. NaNiwa can still participate in a Code A through GSL preliminary. Show nested quote +To clarify, NaNiwa was one of those who were considered to earn Code S seeds, but it was IdrA and Sen who is coming for #GSL Jan. Show nested quote +@Nic_Millar No baned. it's Misunderstanding! NaNi is Missed the opportunity to Code S. Why people keep saying that GOM made harsh decision about what NaNiwa had done? First of all, MLG has nothing to do with NaNiwa being awarded Code S seed. Blizzard Cup had given Nani an opportunity to earn Code S seed, then sponsor decided not to because of what he did in his game. Besides NaNiwa still can participate Code A in GSL by getting through preliminary. It wasn't right thing for GomTV to bend the rule to suit NaNiwa's situation (since Nani didn't technically break the rule), that's not the point here. GomTV is trying their best to make foreigners participate in GSL and revise the format so that the result of the game is mostly based on skill rather than luck. (There are already plan for 2012 GSL with revised format which you can check at here <- no english version yet) srry about my bad english.
This needs to be quoted every page and put in the OP. So much misinformation.
To sum up:
Most MLG Circuit events awarded Code S/A seeds because 4 Koreans were invited into the Championship Pools and in exchange foreigners were invited into GSL. HOWEVER, since Providence did NOT have Championship Pools or invites, there were no GSL seeds "awarded".
Naniwa's Code S invite was an extension of him earning a spot in Blizzcup or awarded by GOM for some other reason (not 100% sure here). Either way, it was a GIFT. One they are taking away because Naniwa decided to be a spoiled brat during a live match.
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On December 15 2011 01:14 sekritzzz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:12 SnoLys wrote:On December 15 2011 00:59 Derez wrote:
Can the thread title be renamed?
Seeing how Slasher (MLG representative and all) has stated that Nani wasn't actually awarded a code S slot for his providence performance, a more accurate title would be 'GomTV decides not to invite Naniwa to Code S January'. Is GOM trying to save face or did all this people got it wrong? From MLG own site news: http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/news/naniwas-ascensionUltimately he dropped the following four games, and despite not being crowned champion, Naniwa has presented one of the most captivating weeks imaginable, both in and out of the game. In the last week, Naniwa has rage quit of of a GSL match, flown half-way around the world, defeated the two most successful Korean Starcraft 2 players back-to-back, sparked a rivalry with Nestea, been the center of controversy in a rematch against Nestea, let a National Championship slip through his fingers and earned a seat in Code S. http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/news/going-out-with-a-bang-mlg-providence-starcraft-2-recapOver the last few months, Naniwa has been training hard over in Korea to take his game to the next level, and his hard work appeared to pay off in Providence. The 2nd Place finish was good enough to earn him a Code S spot, so keep an eye on this MLG Champion as he goes toe-to-toe with the world's best during the offseason. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/top-5-stories-from-mlg-providenceNaniwa, however, stayed focused on his goal. Amidst swirls of tabloid drama and misguided quotes, Naniwa kept his concentration on the task at hand. When his turn to enter the bracket finally rolled around, the Swedish Protoss defeated Nestea for the second time that weekend, and followed the feat with wins over Huk and DongRaeGu. In the end Naniwa failed to seal the deal as he lost four straight games against Leenock in the Grand Finals, but appeared to be a man with a renewed determination and a refined playstyle. With the pedigree Naniwa displayed over the weekend, it's hard not to be excited about Naniwa's 2012 prospects in Code S and at Major League Gaming Events. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-programPro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL
At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A.
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, within the Top 3, regardless of country of origin, who does not already have Code S status.
Code S status will not be awarded if all of the players placing 1st-3rd already have Code S Status.
Code A status will be awarded to the next three highest placing non-Korean players.
If Code S status is awarded to a Korean player, or not awarded at all, Code A status also will be awarded to the 4th highest placing non-Korean player.
From Complexity, his team at the time: http://www.complexitygaming.com/news/3270/Be sure to watch the GSL's Code S tournament as Naniwa secured himself a spot thanks to the MLG/GSL exchange program. http://esfiworld.com/sc2/news/naniwa-secures-top-3-finish-victory-over-hukNaniwa was able to secure a huge victory and guarantee at least a Top 3 finish in Providence. That placement will gives him a chance to secure Code S and continues the run of world class players that Naniwa has defeated over the course of the championship weekend in Providence. http://myeg.net/team/surprises-and-sadness-mlg-providence-day-3/NaNiwa has finally reestablished himself firmly as one of the world’s top Protoss – and earned himself a Code S spot to boot. Wonder what slasher has to say about all of these reports done by mlg/random fansites...... or did they all get it wrong? Would love to heard sundance's reply so we can know what the truth is.
I'm waiting for Sunny D to chirp in. I think there has been some dire miscomunication  .
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On December 15 2011 01:02 Clicker wrote:
Cultures are different. Understand that.
That might be a misunderstanding on your side. This is a company making money of global esports. Culture has no place in a global business. If anything it is a courtesy from the weaker business party to ensure benevolence of the contractual partner. Gom wouldnt invite and/or allow foreigners to qualify if they wouldn't need them to make money. Meaning there is an equilibrium of force.
However, if you are right and such grave decisions are really made mostly based on a cultural conduct (which when forced on others is xenophobic at best and racist at worst; this applies to any culture forced on others) i can almost guarantee they will most the majority of foreign support other the next few years.
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On December 15 2011 01:17 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:15 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:12 XRaDiiX wrote:"During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviors" So if this is true and Gom Sticks to the rule they enforced against Naniwa that means bomber should be banned from Code S/A for doing Mule Drops at end of Games... Double Standard GomTV Shame on them. They are making up rules as they go along; to go as they see fit. They are not being fair to NaNiwa They had this kind of rule since the beginning, it was just not on paper because it was so obvious. And no one at the time would have suspected that someone could be THAT stupid to actually pull a Naniwa. Care to elaborate on how Mule Bombs are different than what NaNiwa did by doing a 6 probe rush Strategy. Because it's a ceremony before winning, like /dance command. And 6 probe rush is NOT A STRATEGY when you don't even bother to micro the probes to let their shields generate.
There is no rules that state how to play the game and what strategy you 'have' to use. So 6 rush probe is actually completely within the rules.
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On December 15 2011 01:17 schI2ler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:12 diophan wrote:On December 15 2011 01:03 schI2ler wrote:On December 15 2011 01:01 Shinta) wrote:On December 15 2011 00:51 Naeroon wrote:Can somebody answer a quick Q I got about this situation? I know it says that NaNiWa is only kicked out of a single season. But it also says his Code S seed is revoked - does this mean that his Code S seed is revoked only for a single season, or is it COMPLETELY revoked and he has to completely earn it back? Thanks in advance He is no longer Code S, period. He earned that spot in MLG.... SO what is the MLG GOM deal worth? Nothing? I can just say: look you deserve this rank, our fans dont like you, you dont get that spot? MLG loses its reputation. They can never again say their winners get a gsl spot... well maybe they will... mlg doesnt know I guess if you get awarded a spot, you are allowed to do whatever you want in the interim and you have an absolute right to it? GOM has given everyone else their GSL seeds, so don't act like they don't actually fulfill the bargain. Actually i think exactly that. If i get awarded a spot, and I take it, it is MY spot. And if I want to put on a pink chicken dress and dance the shuffle while this match happens, I should be able to do it, because i earned that spot. It is MINE, garantueed by a contract.
lol, have you ever intern for anything?
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On December 15 2011 01:17 Pr0spect wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Syg73.png) NesTea says "I'll crush him easily" when asked how he would do against NaNiwa, NaNiwa proceeds to shake his hand before the match, so unprofessional, bad mannered, amateur money hungry of him.
This was before he pulled a Naniwa in GSL.
At that time, he was certainly a professional, but when one pulls a Naniwa he ain't a professional anymore.
Simple as that.
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On December 15 2011 01:18 ZeromuS wrote:
I think people need to remember something:
The GSL is Korean. Korean sensibilities will prevail - Naniwa did not act in accordance with what the gsl expects from a professional player. The player is there to play and this was a special event. This wasn't a tournament in the traditional sense so the games are being played to a certain extent for the fans. His inappropriate action (which took the this game is worth nothing to the extreme) brought with it a storm of comments from the korean fans. GSL has few options in how they respond to the issue. They can't rely solely on the foreigner viewers to keep their company going so they can't just come out and say its ok. The foreigners are more likely to let this pass and keep watching GSL than the koreans anyway. We may not agree but we can understand/forget. Korean fans, if nothing happened, would be more confused and less likely to understand.
Why would koreans care more if naniwa stayed in than foreigners care if naniwa gets kicked out? Becuase culturally they expect their korean counterparts (GSL) to act in accordance with their shared cultural values. We as foreigners should have come to expect that they will act on their Eastern cultural values so this kind of decision is less of a "shock" so to say.
Also: the foreigner community is more split than the korean community seemed to be so this decision pleases the most people on both sides of the pacific
I'm curious as to whether it will benefit them financially, however. Pissing off half of us I think means more monetarily than pissing off all of them.
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On December 15 2011 01:10 poorcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:05 hypercube wrote:On December 15 2011 00:57 poorcloud wrote:
Naniwa didn't want to win. It was obvious because he didn't even try. Thats why they are pissed. Cause he didn't even try. They are pissed that he gave up on the game.
Gonna say it one last time. Please stop talking about strategies, that is not the point. Stop kidding yourself. GOM didn't care if Naniwa wanted to win or not. They were pissed because he didn't give them the show they wanted. If they played it like the showmatch GOM wouldn't have complained. They were annoyed about the lack of entertainment not that Naniwa "didn't want to win". I'm glad that we have an insider from GOM to tell us what GOM is thinking. Please make all these assumptions about everything and use it to support your irrational hatred.
What are you talking about? I have no hate for anyone involved. They made a business decision and they are spinning it as something more. It's very common practice even if I disagree.
IMO if you think through how they'd react to different situations you'll agree that it's about entertainment value. I am making an assumption but it's not based on irrational hatred (which I don't have) but on logic and experience.
Plus, I don't think we even disagree that much. You said they are pissed because he didn't try. People who agree with the decision say he disrespected the fans by not giving them the game they expected.
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It's going to be fun to see how many players they ban with this rule which bans all-ins and cheeses.
Since it's applicable to Naniwa, it should apply to anyone who does an all-in or cheesy play.
And manner mules and /dance, and BM CCs.
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On December 15 2011 01:17 TaKemE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:15 NHY wrote:On December 15 2011 01:12 SnoLys wrote:On December 15 2011 00:59 Derez wrote:
Can the thread title be renamed?
Seeing how Slasher (MLG representative and all) has stated that Nani wasn't actually awarded a code S slot for his providence performance, a more accurate title would be 'GomTV decides not to invite Naniwa to Code S January'. Is GOM trying to save face or did all this people got it wrong? From MLG own site news: http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/news/naniwas-ascensionUltimately he dropped the following four games, and despite not being crowned champion, Naniwa has presented one of the most captivating weeks imaginable, both in and out of the game. In the last week, Naniwa has rage quit of of a GSL match, flown half-way around the world, defeated the two most successful Korean Starcraft 2 players back-to-back, sparked a rivalry with Nestea, been the center of controversy in a rematch against Nestea, let a National Championship slip through his fingers and earned a seat in Code S. http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/news/going-out-with-a-bang-mlg-providence-starcraft-2-recapOver the last few months, Naniwa has been training hard over in Korea to take his game to the next level, and his hard work appeared to pay off in Providence. The 2nd Place finish was good enough to earn him a Code S spot, so keep an eye on this MLG Champion as he goes toe-to-toe with the world's best during the offseason. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/top-5-stories-from-mlg-providenceNaniwa, however, stayed focused on his goal. Amidst swirls of tabloid drama and misguided quotes, Naniwa kept his concentration on the task at hand. When his turn to enter the bracket finally rolled around, the Swedish Protoss defeated Nestea for the second time that weekend, and followed the feat with wins over Huk and DongRaeGu. In the end Naniwa failed to seal the deal as he lost four straight games against Leenock in the Grand Finals, but appeared to be a man with a renewed determination and a refined playstyle. With the pedigree Naniwa displayed over the weekend, it's hard not to be excited about Naniwa's 2012 prospects in Code S and at Major League Gaming Events. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-programPro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL
At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A.
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, within the Top 3, regardless of country of origin, who does not already have Code S status.
Code S status will not be awarded if all of the players placing 1st-3rd already have Code S Status.
Code A status will be awarded to the next three highest placing non-Korean players.
If Code S status is awarded to a Korean player, or not awarded at all, Code A status also will be awarded to the 4th highest placing non-Korean player.
From Complexity, his team at the time: http://www.complexitygaming.com/news/3270/Be sure to watch the GSL's Code S tournament as Naniwa secured himself a spot thanks to the MLG/GSL exchange program. http://esfiworld.com/sc2/news/naniwa-secures-top-3-finish-victory-over-hukNaniwa was able to secure a huge victory and guarantee at least a Top 3 finish in Providence. That placement will gives him a chance to secure Code S and continues the run of world class players that Naniwa has defeated over the course of the championship weekend in Providence. http://myeg.net/team/surprises-and-sadness-mlg-providence-day-3/NaNiwa has finally reestablished himself firmly as one of the world’s top Protoss – and earned himself a Code S spot to boot. They got it wrong. Sure... if they all had it wrong dont you think GOM would have said something before today???
They did say it the day Naniwa got 2nd place.
But again you wouldn't believe it anyway so why bother?
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Wonder how much naniwa cares. I get the feeling he'll just keep practising and come back in season 2 and win some games.
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I'm sorry I can't support this bullshit. I will never watch another thing produced by GOMtv, unless they reinstate Naniwa's Code S status. Fuck you GOMtv
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gomtv need to learn that players are only human. "Professional" or not Naniwa obviously wasn't in a good state of mind, he had abit of a brain fart nothing more.
Sure make a issue a statement saying how you think its bad/unprofessional/etc.. but to deny him the chance to play in a tournament he earnt a spot in (yes he had a good seed, but he did earn that spot). I'm sorry but gomtv over reacted for sure.
The comments about Naniwa being an 'amateur prize money hunter' weren't really needed either, the world isn't a big fucking charity... it revolves around money.
gomtv might not get as many subscriptions for a while, community seems split on the decision but still, a fair amount of people are outraged lol
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On December 15 2011 01:10 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:09 JimSocks wrote:
Its abstract cause the rule gom says he broke is about offending players/audience. He certainly has offended me, and plenty of others to warrant this punishment.
And when the masses want to lynch someone they are always right!!
Seriously though, I feel sorry for you that you can be offended by such a thing.
His probe rush provided me with a big smile on my face when it happened.
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EPT
