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When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. |
Thank you skyR for your help. Of course it was a terrible configuration, what did you expect, for me to have no idea what im doing and come up with an amazing build?! Thats why i came here for help but i could do well without the degrading sarcasm. And IMO i think buying a piece every 2 weeks would not make that big of a difference since i should have them all in about 3 months? Doesnt seem like that would make a huge difference, correct me if im wrong.
Now i understand the motherboards a lot better.
How does this one look - GIGABYTE GA-Z68XP-UD3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
It has two PCIE slots 1 at 16x and 1 at 8x. So i still dont know if i should buy one card or sli 2 cards, any recommendations?
Also it shows Memory Standard - DDR3 2133/1866/1600/1333/1066
Does that mean the ram needs to fit one of those numbers? The Corsair i picked above has ddr3 1600 so it should be fine, but something that would be good to know in the future. Thanks again.
ps is Gigabyte a good brand? Or should i go with something else? Personal preference?
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5930 Posts
There's a lot of reasons behind AMD's inability to compete and the whole codepath problem is literally the least significant. Intel purposely prevented AMD from entering the OEM market (no design wins = no money) by throwing hundreds of millions at Dell/HP/Asus/Lenovo. They still do that and I believe that's the reason why you get those awful Intel Inside stickers over your PCs and laptops.
Even then, AMD would never truly "win" against Intel. Netburst was a huge mistake but Intel recovered from it extremely quickly - all other previous AMD processors were still pretty much playing second fiddle. Most recently, you also have the problem where new Intel processors are being released more frequently than AMD processors were: AMD Phenom II processors were missing some instruction sets the Lynnfields had, for instance, and performed like shit in stuff like Dolphin.
When your fabs are so damned good, no one can honestly beat you unless you release a truly shit architecture.
ps is Gigabyte a good brand? Or should i go with something else? Personal preference?
Asus, MSI, or Asrock. Personally I'd go for Asus always but MSI and Asrock are good if you want a bare bones motherboard.
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On December 01 2011 03:56 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 03:46 Wabbit wrote:On December 01 2011 03:24 Medrea wrote:
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And Fortran is the only bottom level compiler, in it's own class you might say. There are other compiler's as well but Fortran is to the others as Windows Gaming is to the other operating systems.
... Are you saying Fortran compiles all programs into the low-level code using the instruction sets used by the CPU, regardless of what language the original program was written in and what compiler it was compiled with? Trying to make sure I'm understanding everything here. Different layer. C++ and Java and the like are high level languages designed to be used by humans directly. "If this then that" and so forth, designed for speed and efficiently. These are then broken down into assembly "Push, Pull, Pop" and so forth, a program generally spends 90 percent of its time in one location right? A human might optimize that segment in assembly, which is defined by the hardware the program is running on. Then the assembly layer is broken down into individual instructions, which I guess you can think of as how the instruction journies through the CPU silicon itself. "ones and zero's" I guess is what I should be saying but that's really not the whole picture. While you may use any one of many languages and compilers to build your high level program, it eventually has to get melted down into code paths by Fortran.
As a side note, I am actually a Senior Programmer with a Bachelor's in CS... I've even taken a class on Programming Languages & translators, I do programming in Java with other stuff sprinkled in...
I guess i could have just asked if Fortran = assembler that translates compiled programs into opcodes... was just confused because I recall Fortran = high-level language
Thanks , and sorry for making you type up that explanation... I guess it could be worth it for posterity 
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Oh than i can simply say its IFORT.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Fortran_Compiler
And yeah Fortran is a language compiled through IFORT. Which is just short for Intel Fortran Compiler, which I am erroneously shorthanding to Fortran.
Even sections of AMD's Core Math Kernel is compiled through Intel Fortran Compiler. Intel C++ Compiler does the same thing and I tend to think that it isn't a small sabotage.
I agree that AMD has snarfed up so much on their own though. The new consumer Octo-core is just previous technology with extra cores bolted on. There really is no excuse for it.
When your fabs are so damned good, no one can honestly beat you unless you release a truly shit architecture.
Yeah Intel is running away with it. The "tick-tock" paradigm is easy enough for a consumer to grasp, which is marketable in itself. And they are getting really good at this "revise, shrink, revise" thing. It is really working out.
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I was very confused until I realized you meant "Intel Fortran Compiler" (though isn't that part of icc?) by "Fortran." People I know still talk about Fortran occasionally as the high-level language used for calculations.
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Really I should just be saying "Intel's CPU dispatcher." But I wanted to get across specifics. Like math, since we play games and all. I guess that would have been way simpler, silly me.
EDIT: I went through and edited my previous posts to not cause confusion, or at least to cause less of it lol.
I used strikethroughs because I wouldn't want people thinking I can't admit when I am being wrong.
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5930 Posts
Speaking of CPU chat, the Ivy Bridge SKU leaks look very similar to Sandy Bridge in raw performance (literally same clocks and turbo boost as Sandy Bridge). TDPs are significantly lower and the HD4000 is probably bloody monstrous however.
Good times, I remember people here claiming Ivy Bridge was going to be a performance king. There's no need for raw performance anymore, most of us can't even use half of it properly. These things are going to be sick for passive cooling and notebooks though.
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I think people got distracted by this line in the wiki:
Intel's performance targets (compared to Sandy Bridge):[22]
25% increase in CPU performance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge
Now "CPU performance" can mean a lot. I suppose having the same horsepower while consuming 75 percent of the power could be construed as "CPU performance"
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On December 01 2011 03:56 Ellcrys wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Thank you skyR for your help. Of course it was a terrible configuration, what did you expect, for me to have no idea what im doing and come up with an amazing build?! Thats why i came here for help but i could do well without the degrading sarcasm. And IMO i think buying a piece every 2 weeks would not make that big of a difference since i should have them all in about 3 months? Doesnt seem like that would make a huge difference, correct me if im wrong.
Now i understand the motherboards a lot better.
How does this one look - GIGABYTE GA-Z68XP-UD3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
It has two PCIE slots 1 at 16x and 1 at 8x. So i still dont know if i should buy one card or sli 2 cards, any recommendations?
Also it shows Memory Standard - DDR3 2133/1866/1600/1333/1066
Does that mean the ram needs to fit one of those numbers? The Corsair i picked above has ddr3 1600 so it should be fine, but something that would be good to know in the future. Thanks again.
ps is Gigabyte a good brand? Or should i go with something else? Personal preference?
There are several reasons why you don't purchase over a span of several months. A typical configuration in the ~$1250 range will have about eleven components. If these components were purchased separately every two weeks, it would take roughly four months to have the entire configuration (so March).
New generation of components are on the horizon. AMD is expected to release their new cards in January and Nvidia is also expected to release their new cards sometime in the first half of next year. Intel will be releasing their third generation core processors in March or April. You might as well wait until March or April to build since your entire configuration wouldn't even be done until March if you were to purchase a component every two weeks. You don't want to purchase something just to have something better released before you have your entire configuration.
Components are not perfect. Some will arrive DOA (dead on arrival). Some manufacturers don't exactly have the best RMA process or post sale support and most only have one RMA center on the other side of the country. You don't want to purchase something in December to find out it's DOA and have to start an RMA process in March. If you purchased everything together and found out a component was RMA than you can easily just exchange it with the retailer.
Pricing isn't static. So if you decided to purchase something in December and the price drastically falls by the time you purchase your last component in March. You just lost money.
You aren't static either. If your budget changes during the course of your purchases than you end up with either an gimped configuration or a poorly optimized one. If you change your mind than the same thing happens. If you can't manage your budget than you end up spending way more than you intended which can be a good thing but also a bad thing.
DDR3 is DDR3. It'll work on any motherboard capable of supporting DDR3 - it doesn't matter what the other specifications on the memory says. If you buy 2133MHz memory and the motherboard for some reason doesn't support that frequency, it'll downclock to the frequency it does support (so if supports 1600MHz, your memory will automatically run at 1600MHz). Higher frequency and tighter timings on memory provides little to zero benefits.
Which brand you decide to go with for anything comes down to your personal preference and needs/wants. Talking about the ones that actually make good products and not the ones that are complete shit. Gigabyte isn't bad but not many people like them. For a novice like you, you probably don't need a $150 motherboard and can stick to a ~$120 motherboard.
You probably don't want to deal with a multi-GPU configuration either. Such is only necessary if you have the desire to play across multiple monitors or have the need to max every single game (on ultra with AA/AF).
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Ok thanks again skyR. Your right, it isnt a very good idea to buy over a period of time, you made it clear.
You said i should go with a ~$120 dollar motherboard. But is that going to be enough to stream SC2 in 720p+? I will most likely be waiting until i have all the money saved up but this is what i came up with just now.
Case - Antec DF-85 Black Steel / Plastic ATX Full Tower Computer Case
$159.99
CPU - Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 3000 BX80623I72600K
$319.99
Hard Drive - Western Digital Caviar Blue WD3200AAJS 320GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
$99.99
Motherboard - ASUS P8Z68-V PRO LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
$209.99
Memory - CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CML16GX3M4A1600C9
$89.99
Power Supply - Thermaltake TR2 RX 750W Bronze W0382RU ATX 12V v2.3 / EPS 12V v2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
$89.99
Video Card - ASUS ENGTX560 DCII OC/2DI/1GD5 GeForce GTX 560 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
$199.99
So lemme know your thoughts on that if you would like, i am still missing heatsink just because i have no idea if i need a nice one, or if a 30 dollar heat sink would be fine. Am i over doing it for only wanting to stream sc2? Am i skimping on anything, like only have one asus 1gb graphics card? Thanks again for your help though, i already understand what im doing 20 times more than this morning.
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On November 25 2011 13:59 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 13:34 Detrimentally wrote:+ Show Spoiler +What is your budget? $1k max What is your resolution? 1680x1050 What are you using it for? Gaming mainly, College work What is your upgrade cycle? 4-5 years When do you plan on building it? ASAP Do you plan on overclocking? No Do you need an Operating System? Yes Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? Not at the moment, but the option would be nice Where are you buying your parts from? Newegg A little side note: I need a wireless card, as well, so if you could give me a suggestion for that, too, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Myrmidon posted a configuration for you in the other thread. It would be wise to purchase from multiple retailers if you want the best pricing. I would take a MSI Radeon HD6950 1GB Twin Frozr III for the same price as the GTX 560 Ti: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=64182&promoid=1055You'll want to switch the motherboard for a Z68 Extreme3 for $125 ($115 after mail in rebate) if you want to do a multi-GPU configuration in the future: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157271If you want to deal with mail in rebates, the Intel 320 80GB is $77 after mail in rebate, it's slower than the Samsung 830 but it's still much faster than an HDD, has a five year warranty, just as reliable, and is 80gb instead of 64gb: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=59826&promoid=1055
I ended up purchasing this and it just got delivered today. This is the first time I've put together a computer and the newegg tutorial video I was watching said there should be 9 mounting screws that the mobo rests on. Well, the mobo I purchased only reaches the 7 closest to the back of the case, leaving the very end of it without the last three mounting screws. Is this going to be a problem? I didn't see anyone else with this issue in the feedback for either of these products...
Cooler Master CM692 Advanced
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119216
Z68 Extreme3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157271
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On December 01 2011 04:53 Ellcrys wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok thanks again skyR. Your right, it isnt a very good idea to buy over a period of time, you made it clear.
You said i should go with a ~$120 dollar motherboard. But is that going to be enough to stream SC2 in 720p+? I will most likely be waiting until i have all the money saved up but this is what i came up with just now.
Case - Antec DF-85 Black Steel / Plastic ATX Full Tower Computer Case
$159.99
CPU - Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 3000 BX80623I72600K
$319.99
Hard Drive - Western Digital Caviar Blue WD3200AAJS 320GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
$99.99
Motherboard - ASUS P8Z68-V PRO LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
$209.99
Memory - CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CML16GX3M4A1600C9
$89.99
Power Supply - Thermaltake TR2 RX 750W Bronze W0382RU ATX 12V v2.3 / EPS 12V v2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
$89.99
Video Card - ASUS ENGTX560 DCII OC/2DI/1GD5 GeForce GTX 560 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
$199.99
So lemme know your thoughts on that if you would like, i am still missing heatsink just because i have no idea if i need a nice one, or if a 30 dollar heat sink would be fine. Am i over doing it for only wanting to stream sc2? Am i skimping on anything, like only have one asus 1gb graphics card? Thanks again for your help though, i already understand what im doing 20 times more than this morning.
The motherboard is just the base for all your components. It has basically zero impact on performance.
You're overspending on the case. Besides having a custom loop, some flagship configuration (quad SLI or dual processors), or a dozen HDDs - there's literally no reason to waste money on a full tower case. Besides their Performance One and Solo series, Antec cases aren't that great. They lack a lot of features or have poorly implemented features compared to their competitors such as Coolermaster, Corsair, Bitfenix, Silverstone, etc.
You're also overspending on the motherboard. The P8Z68-V Pro and P8Z68-V are literally the exact same minus the amount of SATA ports.
If Starcraft II is your only concern than having just a GTX 560 is fine. It's more than enough to max the game.
You're also overspending on the memory, I don't think even with streaming - you'll use up that much memory. Corsair Vengeance also is usually overpriced in comparison to GSkill Ripjaws.
If you don't use much storage, you also should consider getting a ~120gb SSD such as the Crucial M4 or Samsung 830 like I mentioned earlier. If not, you can get a 500gb HDD such as the Seagate Barracuda or a 500gb Caviar Blue from another retailer for the same price as your selected 320gb Caviar Blue.
You're overspending on the power supply, even for a SLI configuration. You do not need 750w of power for a 2600k and two GTX 560s. Thermaltake also isn't that great in terms of power supplies. If you want to do a SLI configuration, you should get a 650w unit such as the XFX Core Edition Pro for the same price: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207014 It's of higher quality and also provides basically the same amount of power as the Thermaltake unit you selected.
If you are just going for a single GPU configuration than you can get a ~500w unit such as the Antec Neo Eco 520: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371030 and also you shouldn't waste money on a P8Z68-V if you are doing a single GPU configuration.
On December 01 2011 04:58 Detrimentally wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 25 2011 13:59 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 13:34 Detrimentally wrote:+ Show Spoiler +What is your budget? $1k max What is your resolution? 1680x1050 What are you using it for? Gaming mainly, College work What is your upgrade cycle? 4-5 years When do you plan on building it? ASAP Do you plan on overclocking? No Do you need an Operating System? Yes Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? Not at the moment, but the option would be nice Where are you buying your parts from? Newegg A little side note: I need a wireless card, as well, so if you could give me a suggestion for that, too, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Myrmidon posted a configuration for you in the other thread. It would be wise to purchase from multiple retailers if you want the best pricing. I would take a MSI Radeon HD6950 1GB Twin Frozr III for the same price as the GTX 560 Ti: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=64182&promoid=1055You'll want to switch the motherboard for a Z68 Extreme3 for $125 ($115 after mail in rebate) if you want to do a multi-GPU configuration in the future: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157271If you want to deal with mail in rebates, the Intel 320 80GB is $77 after mail in rebate, it's slower than the Samsung 830 but it's still much faster than an HDD, has a five year warranty, just as reliable, and is 80gb instead of 64gb: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=59826&promoid=1055 I ended up purchasing this and it just got delivered today. This is the first time I've put together a computer and the newegg tutorial video I was watching said there should be 9 mounting screws that the mobo rests on. Well, the mobo I purchased only reaches the 7 closest to the back of the case, leaving the very end of it without the last three mounting screws. Is this going to be a problem? I didn't see anyone else with this issue in the feedback for either of these products... Cooler Master CM692 Advanced http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119216Z68 Extreme3 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157271
You're most likely mounting it wrong. It's probably best to post a picture since I don't quite understand what you're describing.
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Ok thank you so much skyR, i will save all the info you have wrote and come back here when im ready to buy.
Since it only came to around $1200, and im over spending in a few areas that makes me feel better, hopefully i should be able to buy everything in a month or two. Thanks again :D
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Is it possible that my motherboard only has 7 mounting points instead of 9?
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Looking at the picture of your board, yes you would only need the seven.
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No point in purchasing a H61 motherboard for $85. mATX H67 motherboards cost the same. If you need a ATX motherboard for whatever reason, it's $5 more for a ATX H67 board. Since you are getting an Intel 320 which is SATA 3Gbps and not 6Gbps, you can stick with a H61 motherboard, so pick one of the least expensive ones which are around $50-$60 - all of these will be mATX. You didn't explain why you need an ATX board.
You don't need memory with heatspreaders. There are several 2x4gb 1333MHz cas9 kits for close to $30.
For a non-overclocked single GPU configuration - you just need a ~500w unit, something such as the Antec Neo Eco 520C, XFX Core Edition 450 / 550, Antec High Current Gamer 520, Seasonic S12II 520, and Antec Earthwatts 500 / 650.
A Radeon HD6950 is sort of overkill for Starcraft II and Diablo III, you would be fine with a Radeon HD6850 which is about $100 less expensive.
If you want an inexpensive case, you can get a Bitfenix Merc Alpha for about $40 or Coolermaster Elite 370 for about $32, both from NCIX.
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On December 01 2011 03:56 Ellcrys wrote:
Thank you skyR for your help. Of course it was a terrible configuration, what did you expect, for me to have no idea what im doing and come up with an amazing build?! Thats why i came here for help but i could do well without the degrading sarcasm. And IMO i think buying a piece every 2 weeks would not make that big of a difference since i should have them all in about 3 months? Doesnt seem like that would make a huge difference, correct me if im wrong.
Now i understand the motherboards a lot better.
How does this one look - GIGABYTE GA-Z68XP-UD3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
It has two PCIE slots 1 at 16x and 1 at 8x. So i still dont know if i should buy one card or sli 2 cards, any recommendations?
Also it shows Memory Standard - DDR3 2133/1866/1600/1333/1066
Does that mean the ram needs to fit one of those numbers? The Corsair i picked above has ddr3 1600 so it should be fine, but something that would be good to know in the future. Thanks again.
ps is Gigabyte a good brand? Or should i go with something else? Personal preference?
I would think both twice and thrice before going for two GPUs. The micro stuttering can be pretty bad at times, especially if you're going for two cheaper cards. I'm no expert what so ever but a friend of mine ran around with high FPS but really crappy performance, so just be aware of it. I believe Tom's Hardware among others have some articles about it.
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So it's about time to get a video card. I've been using the integrated graphics with my i5 and MB and pretty much anything I run on it low is fine, but I'll be getting Skyrim soon so I'd like to buy a 560ti but I have a couple questions first.
How much better will a new 560ti 448 core perform over an older version 560ti? 5%? 20%?
How much better will a 570 perform over the new 560ti 448 cores?
I'm looking at theMSI Twin Frozr III which is $309 right now, and I'm wondering if getting a ASUS gtx 570 is just better to do at $349.
With that said, is this new architecture of GPU coming out 'soon' going to blow the old GPUs out of the water and will there be a competitive price range around the $300 mark for the new GPUs?
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EPT
