|
When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. |
On November 30 2011 15:20 Medrea wrote:+ Show Spoiler +AMD can't compete with Intel because the current technological paradigm relies on Intel to even enter the competition (Fortran Compiler). So yes I think they can if the playing field was more level than it is right now.
At the moment any competitor serious enough to threaten Intel will just be crippled by poor compilation until a new one that is better than Intel's is invented.
ATI/AMD should be competitive with nVidia for awhile. Comparing Apple to AMD is unfair because no one knows what Apple is going to be like without Jobs at the helm.
As for Samsung and Qualcomm, I think direct competition is suicide.
I'm not referring to GPUs when I said Nvidia but I guess they can be on equal footing on the mobile GPU department.
I don't see how comparing to Apple is unfair as their market dominance isn't changing anytime soon even with Jobs gone. We all know Apple won't use Llano, Trinity, or give up their own SoC design for AMD.
If they can't compete with Samsung or Qualcomm than I'm not sure what the hell they plan on doing by focusing their efforts on the mobile segment.
On November 30 2011 15:21 GGitsJack wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Can someone take a look at a build my friend put up for me? Planning to build this soon Case COOLER MASTER Elite 430 $102.35 Mobo Gigabyte GA-Z68AP-D3 $217.35 CPU Intel sandy bridge Core i5 2500 $282.90 RAM KINGSTON 4GB kit Gaming HyperX 1600MHz x2 $126.50 GPU EVGA GeForce GTX 560 Ti DS $429.00 HDD Seagate 1TB Barracuda $194.35 Drive LG GH24NS70 24X $35.00 PSU COOLER MASTER GX 650W $171.35 $1558 NZD total. Also, I can only get my parts from http://pbtech.co.nz/ as I live in New Zealand, just wondering if this is worth it or not, thanks :D
Poor selection of components.
If you're not overclocking (I assume you're not since you have a non-K suffix processor and no aftermarket heatsink), a Z68 motherboard is unnecessary. Any H61 or H67 motherboard will do fine.
Kingston HyperX is a poor choice as their 1600MHz kit runs at 1.65v, you ideally want 1.5v. 1600MHz also provides little benefits over 1333MHz so it doesn't make much sense to waste money on the memory before the other components which gives you a bigger gain.
A 650w power supply is unnecessary as you won't be overclocking or doing a multi-GPU configuration. Such a configuration with a core i5 2500 and a GTX 560 Ti will have a hard time breaking 300w under load. A ~500w unit is what you want. Coolermaster doesn't have that many good power supplies so it's best to avoid them.
|
does that really say that the recommended retail price of a couple of sticks of ram is 203 dollars?
|
On November 30 2011 15:49 Legatus Lanius wrote:
does that really say that the recommended retail price of a couple of sticks of ram is 203 dollars?
especially as the exchange rate into dollar is only 1.3 : 1 ...
It'd probably cost less to fly to australia, buy a comp there and then fly back
|
On November 30 2011 15:49 Legatus Lanius wrote:
does that really say that the recommended retail price of a couple of sticks of ram is 203 dollars?
And that's the cheap ones. 
|
Just wondering a few things about my build (Slightly modified from shikyo's optimized build)
namely, A. will everything fit in the case fine,
B. will i be able to overclock the cpu with just the one fan from the case+ the heat sink, (and how far can i overclock the processor safely)
C. will the power supply i currently have in their be able to handle overclocking the cpu + the other stuff, or maybe even 2 gpu cards
D. Is the 6850 better than the 6870? I saw in the gpu benchmarks it scores higher, but the card people recommend is the 6870. Second, can my motherboard/case even fit both of them?
E. I assume the hard drive doesn't matter too much? (like fitting in the case)
F. Should I wait until January to buy the graphics card if I don't plan on building it right away? I'm waiting on another sale on the 2500k/motherboard, so not sure when I would be building it. How much do you guys feel like the 6850/6870's/GTX 560 TI will fall after the new cards are announced
Thank you guys for any help you can give me. I'm pretty noob at this, so this thread has been a big help to me.
+ Show Spoiler +
|
Yes everything will fit inside the case.
The power supply can easily handle such a configuration. A P67S-C43 isn't capable of a multi-GPU configuration so if you have plans for a multi-GPU configuration than you need a different motherboard and a stronger power supply.
The 6870 is stronger than a 6850 ... hence why it's a higher number. You are mistaking the 6850 for another card because it does not score higher than a 6870.
Every HDD fits in every case.
The current generation of cards won't immediately fall in price once the new generation of cards are released. It'll probably take nearly half a year before you see the GTX 560 Ti and Radeon HD6950 at sub $200 and a Radeon HD6850 at $100.
Why didn't you purchase during Black Friday? Shit motherboards usually don't go on sale very often and Newegg will most likely never carry the 2500k again for $200. Other retailers carry it regularly for under $200 though if you want to do separate orders.
I'm not sure why you didn't buy during Black Friday/Cyber Monday since you won't ever see those deals happen altogether in the US until the next Black Friday/Cyber Monday...
|
would a laptop with a gt 540m and a i7 2630QM be able to run SC2 on 1920x1080 on max settings?
if not, at what resolution would it be able to run at max settings?
also, what is the difference in performance between i7 2630QM, i5 2410M and i3 2310M?
|
On November 30 2011 14:49 Medrea wrote:
Intel has been stepping into anti-trust problems since the 80's.
Intel Fortran compiler intentionally takes terrible code paths when in the presence of am AMD processor. Even AMD's own Core Math Kernel functions better when the CPUID is changed to genuineIntel!
And lets be serious, Fortran is the only compiler out there
I really feel like I should be able to understand this without asking but I'm quite confused...
Not many programs are written in Fortran... so what do you mean by "Fortran is the only compiler out there"? It's not like programs written in C/C++ or other popular languages for most of our software are all using Intel's Fortran and C++ compilers.. are they?
Am I missing something here?
|
On December 01 2011 00:19 Nate.F wrote:
would a laptop with a gt 540m and a i7 2630QM be able to run SC2 on 1920x1080 on max settings?
if not, at what resolution would it be able to run at max settings?
also, what is the difference in performance between i7 2630QM, i5 2410M and i3 2310M?
A 540m can only run the GPU settings on Medium at 1360x768, so for 1080p only Low is possible. See this for laptop GPU benchmarks:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Computer-Games-on-Laptop-Graphic-Cards.13849.0.html
The QM's are quad-cores, the others are dual-core. Higher number usually refers to a faster processor (higher frequency and higher turbo boost, and possibly higher cache).
Starcraft 2 doesn't utilize 4 cores though so a QM is a waste of money for SC2.
|
Hi guys,
If I understand correctly the speed of a processor is determined by frequency, instructions per clock cycle and number of cores. Is this right?
So yes, where can I find the IPC's of the latest processors, I want to compare them a bit.
|
my college is offering a win7 upgrade for 30 bucks. does this literally mean just that? i can only upgrade to win7 with a hdd that already has xp or vista installed? i was looking at the prices of both upgrade and full versions of win7, and they pretty much cost about the same. and that's what led me to this silly question
|
5930 Posts
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/x86-core-performance-comparison/benchmarks,128.html
Many people don't do extensive tests of that shit because its basically pointless. There's so many factors like architectures, amount of cache, instruction sets, benefits from memory speed, etc.
If Bulldozer actually met its frequency targets, comparing IPC would be utterly pointless. It would have a huge IPC deficit compared to Intel processors but it would still perform extremely well because of the aggressively high clock speed.
On December 01 2011 02:06 billy5000 wrote:
my college is offering a win7 upgrade for 30 bucks. does this literally mean just that? i can only upgrade to win7 with a hdd that already has xp or vista installed? i was looking at the prices of both upgrade and full versions of win7, and they pretty much cost about the same. and that's what led me to this silly question
Its been answered a billion times on Google.
|
On December 01 2011 01:54 Wabbit wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 00:19 Nate.F wrote:
would a laptop with a gt 540m and a i7 2630QM be able to run SC2 on 1920x1080 on max settings?
if not, at what resolution would it be able to run at max settings?
also, what is the difference in performance between i7 2630QM, i5 2410M and i3 2310M? A 540m can only run the GPU settings on Medium at 1360x768, so for 1080p only Low is possible. See this for laptop GPU benchmarks: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Computer-Games-on-Laptop-Graphic-Cards.13849.0.htmlThe QM's are quad-cores, the others are dual-core. Higher number usually refers to a faster processor (higher frequency and higher turbo boost, and possibly higher cache). Starcraft 2 doesn't utilize 4 cores though so a QM is a waste of money for SC2.
thanks.
another question - am I safe to assume that ASUS has the most reliable aftermarket service compared to other laptop manufacturers? (worldwide)
|
Ehh reliable? o.O
I don't think any major company would refuse a warranty proposal if it's for a reason... So what do you mean?
|
5930 Posts
If we want to get pedantic, business laptops and Apple* will have better warranty that will leave you satisfied most of the time.
Asus, theoretically, offers good warranty services. They have a one year accidental damage program where they will fix your laptop should it suffer from splash, spill, or burn damage so it should be amongst the best for consumer laptops. Obviously if you lose it, they're not going to cover it.
So keep the cards and literature! They're a part of the laptop as well!
Whether or not they are willing to cover it depends on how you communicate with the support staff as well as how lucky you are. The more prepared you are and willing to work with the staff, the easier the RMA process will be for both parties - this seems obvious but so many people call unprepared. RMA durations will always be lengthy since your laptop will end up at an outsourced repair center.
*If you are a human being and aren't a socially stunted nerd, its extremely easy to get good results from Apple.
|
On December 01 2011 01:50 Wabbit wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 14:49 Medrea wrote:
Intel has been stepping into anti-trust problems since the 80's.
Intel Fortran compiler intentionally takes terrible code paths when in the presence of am AMD processor. Even AMD's own Core Math Kernel functions better when the CPUID is changed to genuineIntel!
And lets be serious, Fortran is the only compiler out there I really feel like I should be able to understand this without asking but I'm quite confused... Not many programs are written in Fortran... so what do you mean by "Fortran is the only compiler out there"? It's not like programs written in C/C++ or other popular languages for most of our software are all using Intel's Fortran and C++ compilers.. are they? Am I missing something here?
Fortran Intel's CPU Dispatcher decides what instructions are used inside the CPU. CPU instructions are standardized and well known, and have there own revisions.
For instance one such revision is called SSE3. For a certain job lets say, SSE3 is the optimal code path, and both AMD and Intel support said implied instruction sets.
Fortran Intel's CPU Dispatcher will literally look at the CPUID string (it is ONLY a string, you can even change it yourself). If the string says "GenuineAMD," Fortran Intel's CPU Dispatcher will intentionally use SSE2 instead of the way better SSE3. This can lead to a performance drop of 5 to even 45 percent! However edit the CPUID to GenuineIntel and magically the processor is better. Same CPU, different name.
Imagine all the benchmarks that have been interfered with by Intel over the last 20 years. This (and others) is what is at the heart of AMD's "anti-competitive" claims against Intel.
And FortranIntel's CPU Dispatcher is the only bottom level compiler, in it's own class you might say. There are other compiler's as well but Fortran is to the others as Windows Gaming is to the other operating systems.
|
Hi TL. I am looking forward to building my very first desktop as soon as i can afford it. I was thinking of probably only buying a piece at a time, maybe one every 2 weeks or so until i have everything bought. Was wondering if someone could help me out on a build since i have never done this before and really don't have much knowledge.
I guess my budget would be around 1000-1500 or so, with only needing a case and all the components inside it. Im wanting this computer so i can stream sc2 at high quality. My internet speed is 60mb dl/ 3mb upload.I will also need a win7 upgrade. The one thing i wasnt sure about was the resolution i would be playing at. Right now i play at 1680/1080 which is the max i can go on this monitor, but i assume i will go to a higher resolution once i get a bigger monitor, just not sure what the resolutions are exactly :/.
So far this is kinda what i was looking at, keep in mind though, im not very good at this, i kinda get an idea of how good something is just buy looking at the price tag.
Motherboard - I really have no idea, i mean so many different brands. How will i know it will fit everything on it? (seems to be the hardest part)
CPU - Intel Core i7-950 Bloomfield 3.06GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor BX80601950 $249.99 at newegg.com (seems great ya?)
Memory - CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CML16GX3M4A1600C9 $89.99 at newegg.com
Power Supply - Coolmax 1200W ATX12V v2.3 /EPS 12V v2.92 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply $199.99 at newegg.com
Video Card - Not sure what i want here. Not sure what i need and there are just so many different brands its hard to choose when your a noob. I really have no idea if i want to SLI or just get one great card.
Sound Card - Not sure if i need this, most likely there will be onboard sound and i really dont plan on having a great sound system, dont even own computer speakers.
Things i still need i think?! - Heatsink, Case, Fans if the case doesnt come with them, Hard Drive (cheap one, i really dont use that much memory, been on a 250gb forever)
So any help would be greatly appreciated, i just didnt feel comfortable buying anything with what little knowledge i have of building computers. Thanks for any feedback. Any options i have made im happy to change, also dont mind shopping somewhere else if its cheaper than newegg. Thanks again.
|
On December 01 2011 03:29 Ellcrys wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hi TL. I am looking forward to building my very first desktop as soon as i can afford it. I was thinking of probably only buying a piece at a time, maybe one every 2 weeks or so until i have everything bought. Was wondering if someone could help me out on a build since i have never done this before and really don't have much knowledge.
I guess my budget would be around 1000-1500 or so, with only needing a case and all the components inside it. Im wanting this computer so i can stream sc2 at high quality. My internet speed is 60mb dl/ 3mb upload.I will also need a win7 upgrade. The one thing i wasnt sure about was the resolution i would be playing at. Right now i play at 1680/1080 which is the max i can go on this monitor, but i assume i will go to a higher resolution once i get a bigger monitor, just not sure what the resolutions are exactly :/.
So far this is kinda what i was looking at, keep in mind though, im not very good at this, i kinda get an idea of how good something is just buy looking at the price tag.
Motherboard - I really have no idea, i mean so many different brands. How will i know it will fit everything on it? (seems to be the hardest part)
CPU - Intel Core i7-950 Bloomfield 3.06GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor BX80601950 $249.99 at newegg.com (seems great ya?)
Memory - CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CML16GX3M4A1600C9 $89.99 at newegg.com
Power Supply - Coolmax 1200W ATX12V v2.3 /EPS 12V v2.92 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply $199.99 at newegg.com
Video Card - Not sure what i want here. Not sure what i need and there are just so many different brands its hard to choose when your a noob. I really have no idea if i want to SLI or just get one great card.
Sound Card - Not sure if i need this, most likely there will be onboard sound and i really dont plan on having a great sound system, dont even own computer speakers.
Things i still need i think?! - Heatsink, Case, Fans if the case doesnt come with them, Hard Drive (cheap one, i really dont use that much memory, been on a 250gb forever)
So any help would be greatly appreciated, i just didnt feel comfortable buying anything with what little knowledge i have of building computers. Thanks for any feedback. Any options i have made im happy to change, also dont mind shopping somewhere else if its cheaper than newegg. Thanks again.
Really terrible configuration.
Really bad idea to buy a component every two week as prices aren't static, components aren't guaranteed to arrive not DOA, and at the rate you purchase, new components will be out by the time you finish.
Bloomfield is three year old architecture. If you want to build on an enthusiast platform to waste money than you need to build on X79 with a core i7 3930k. If you want performance per dollar than you want a P67 or Z68 motherboard with a 2500k. If the processor is LGA1155, you need to pair it with a LGA1155 motherboard - everything else that is essential and modern will fit guaranteed.
I have no clue why you are picking a 1200w power supply and you yourself have no clue why. You need to decide on whether you are doing a quad-SLI / quad-CrossfireX configuration before purchasing your other components. A single card configuration only requires a ~500w unit while most SLI / CrossfireX configurations requiring ~650w and only the top end quad card configurations requiring more than 1000w. And if you are going to waste money on a 1000w+ unit, please make sure it's an amazing unit (Coolmax is not).
If you are spending $1000 on the computer alone, you are getting an aftermarket heatsink.
Every case comes with fans.
If you have a $1500 budget and don't use that much storage, consider getting a 128gb SSD such as the Crucial M4 or Samsung 830.
|
On December 01 2011 03:24 Medrea wrote:
...
And Fortran is the only bottom level compiler, in it's own class you might say. There are other compiler's as well but Fortran is to the others as Windows Gaming is to the other operating systems.
...
Are you saying Fortran compiles all programs into the low-level code using the instruction sets used by the CPU, regardless of what language the original program was written in and what compiler it was compiled with? Trying to make sure I'm understanding everything here.
|
On December 01 2011 03:46 Wabbit wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 03:24 Medrea wrote:
...
And Fortran is the only bottom level compiler, in it's own class you might say. There are other compiler's as well but Fortran is to the others as Windows Gaming is to the other operating systems.
... Are you saying Fortran compiles all programs into the low-level code using the instruction sets used by the CPU, regardless of what language the original program was written in and what compiler it was compiled with? Trying to make sure I'm understanding everything here.
Different layer. C++ and Java and the like are high level languages designed to be used by humans directly. "If this then that" and so forth, designed for speed and efficiency. These are then broken down into assembly "Push, Pull, Pop" and so forth, a program generally spends 90 percent of its time in one location right? A human might optimize that segment in assembly, which is defined by the hardware the program is running on. Then the assembly layer is broken down into individual instructions, which I guess you can think of as how the instruction journies through the CPU silicon itself. "ones and zero's" I guess is what I should be saying but that's really not the whole picture.
While you may use any one of many languages and compilers to build your high level program, it eventually has to get melted down into code paths by Fortran Intel's CPU Dispatcher.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
