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Kespa did great things for Brood War
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Having one organization represent both the players and the team organizations is a hilarious conflict of interest.
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I don't think the KeSPA hate is unfounded. I mean, you only need to refer to the search bar to look up their history and shit that people around here disagreed with outright. I feel like it belittles what actually happened when people claim it's just the whole ppp incidents. Maybe people have short term memories or really weren't around, but I remember when PL was stolen, when JD almost lost his career (thank God that worked out), and even the whole bullshit surrounding NaDa as he switched over. I have a very valid reason to dislike KeSPA given their past, but at the same time I'd be welcoming of it if someone I trust can dip their hands in. I definitely see the benefits of KeSPA taking over, and I'd be less wary if there was someone in KeSPA I could trust. That's why I'd love for Mr. Chae to be involved in whatever becomes the governing SC2 body. Not only has he shown to care about the foreign fans, but he cares about the players, the scene, and does all he can to unite it globally. I just don't know how KeSPA could handle all that with literally no contacts to the outside world, and SC2 is still very much part of the outside world.
So I'm half/half on KeSPA getting involved. On one hand I think it'd be absolutely great for the scene in Korea, but on the other I worry about some of the crap players tried to get away from when switching over.
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On September 25 2011 03:33 wassbix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 02:53 Bobster wrote:On September 25 2011 02:25 whateverpeeps wrote:On September 25 2011 00:01 masterbreti wrote:On September 24 2011 22:46 Bobster wrote:
SC2con was dead in my eyes when I heard that they
1) were responsible for less Koreans in NASL because while only some of the teams weren't happy, everyone else had to bow out due to SC2con forcing "solidarity" - basically, if one team doesn't want to play, no one plays. Without SC2con, we would've had more Korean players than the 6 (on non-Korean teams) we have now, make no mistake.
Auctally sc2con wasn't involved in that decision at all, and had nothing to do with it. It was all the teams talking together about it and mr. Chae being the front man (so to speak) Actually, they were. Never officially, but they were. What I believe happened from all that I've read (and I read a lot about this situation), is that 1-2 Korean teams were dissatisfied with the deposits and travel costs because of lack of funding. I believe SC2Con's role was to represent the wishes of those few teams, by forcing an all-Korean withdrawal. If you've read FXO's post about SC2Con's methods of...persuasion...before he edited it, you would see Sc2Con acts through threats, harassment and intimidation. Additionally, they represent a strong Korean vs The World mantra, so it is very likely that they harassed team managers into abiding, threatening to label them Korean traitors. Well said. There's a reason why the two most independent Korean teams (SlayerS, FXO) didn't want anything to do with SC2con. Smaller teams didn't have the luxury of independence and were forced to comply with SC2con. Very happy that their strong-arm tactics did not pan out, even though it cost us (and NASL) a certain price to see it happen. I wonder if that and the FXO incident weren't key factors when SC2con realised they didn't have as much power over everyone as they thought and disbanding was appropriate. On September 25 2011 02:31 infinity2k9 wrote:On September 24 2011 18:53 Slakter wrote:On September 24 2011 18:45 infinity2k9 wrote:On September 24 2011 17:53 Slakter wrote:On September 24 2011 16:54 Trozz wrote:
Didn't expect this.
Does there have to be a con?
It's necessary? There needs to be a union for progamers to look out for their best interests. Kespa failed at that pretty hard and SC2Con just didnt have any balls to do anything. May just be the communist part of me talking however. How do you figure this? Isn't having things like player drafts when a team disbands a positive thing.. the only thing you can argue that they do wrong in regards to players is how free agents work, but i'm pretty sure it's to help balance the teams out and stop all the top players being signed by a single team. If you are gonna argue 'omg they practice for so long' that's down to the teams themselves. But simply anyone who doesn't practice hard isn't even going to be a pro anyway in BW, you can't force a maximum practice time on people. Its more the fact that the lower level pros dont get paid enough for their work IMO. If Progaming had a strong union that cared more about the players I bet there would be a lot more discussion internally about players salaries. People keep bringing up the foreign scene and minor foreign tournaments as if we should care and they should even be involved in anything like this in the first place. Organization is needed for the top level of progaming, no one gives a shit about controlling the rest of it. The global SC2 scene is strong, we don't need a strong-arm organisation trying to control everyone else, especially not if it's operating from one of the smaller countries involved. There's a lot more money in North America and Europe (I'm never sure if FXO is considered a SEA team or just "international" :D). As I said before, some of the Korean executives that want total control over players and teams (to the detriments of the individual, I might add) are free to try and establish this like Kespa did in BW. But isolation will inevitably lead to decline in a global community like the SC2 scene. This ain't BW, son. Kespa is a board of teams/sponsors, ofc they control the league... they run and pay for most of the costs. If anything they ran it pretty fucking well since we're seeing BW on TV for 10 years strong, with wide range of viewers, while every other e-sport is delegated to teenage nerds watching it on an internet streams. Kespa did not "kill" the foreigner scene. Foreigner scene just stopped being competitive. Lot of foreigners were present at the start and one epic Canadian even won an OSL. It's not Kespa's fault foreigners sucked at the game and couldn't compete at the highest level. Are people really angry at Kespa doesn't give the poor foreigner pity air time despite being below most Korean B-teamers? Not giving shitty players air time means its serious and legitimate e-sport.
their lack of desire to help and explore leagues and stuff for international players, whether they are b-teamers or worse is what has lead to stagnation in the broodwar scene. kespa's completely internal view point is what will kill broodwar. maybe not today, maybe not this year, but if you dont care about growth the only way is down.
and we sit here now talking about how the korean scene needs western money in sc2, to help bring them into the international game so they can take part.
the same argument can be levied at BW, the lack of money in the foreign scene makes it very very hard to break into as a white guy. im not saying the koreans arent the best in the world, but baring having the greatest BW talent of all time, its impossible to bankroll a career in BW now to last you long enough to go pro.
this is the flaw with looking after the teams and sponsors above all else.
teams dont matter, teams will come and go. sponsors and players are what matter, that (imo) is kespas flaw
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I guess I just don't understand why these guys think they need an organization to have control over things and make unilateral decisions on how things should be solved. I mean it is good to have non-biased mediators but at the end of the day if you don't plan for the worst then you have to grow through the growing pains. Having an organization just seems like a bunch of random people looking for power under the guise of helping the scene succeed.
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On September 25 2011 07:14 Holykitty wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 03:33 wassbix wrote:On September 25 2011 02:53 Bobster wrote:On September 25 2011 02:25 whateverpeeps wrote:On September 25 2011 00:01 masterbreti wrote:On September 24 2011 22:46 Bobster wrote:
SC2con was dead in my eyes when I heard that they
1) were responsible for less Koreans in NASL because while only some of the teams weren't happy, everyone else had to bow out due to SC2con forcing "solidarity" - basically, if one team doesn't want to play, no one plays. Without SC2con, we would've had more Korean players than the 6 (on non-Korean teams) we have now, make no mistake.
Auctally sc2con wasn't involved in that decision at all, and had nothing to do with it. It was all the teams talking together about it and mr. Chae being the front man (so to speak) Actually, they were. Never officially, but they were. What I believe happened from all that I've read (and I read a lot about this situation), is that 1-2 Korean teams were dissatisfied with the deposits and travel costs because of lack of funding. I believe SC2Con's role was to represent the wishes of those few teams, by forcing an all-Korean withdrawal. If you've read FXO's post about SC2Con's methods of...persuasion...before he edited it, you would see Sc2Con acts through threats, harassment and intimidation. Additionally, they represent a strong Korean vs The World mantra, so it is very likely that they harassed team managers into abiding, threatening to label them Korean traitors. Well said. There's a reason why the two most independent Korean teams (SlayerS, FXO) didn't want anything to do with SC2con. Smaller teams didn't have the luxury of independence and were forced to comply with SC2con. Very happy that their strong-arm tactics did not pan out, even though it cost us (and NASL) a certain price to see it happen. I wonder if that and the FXO incident weren't key factors when SC2con realised they didn't have as much power over everyone as they thought and disbanding was appropriate. On September 25 2011 02:31 infinity2k9 wrote:On September 24 2011 18:53 Slakter wrote:On September 24 2011 18:45 infinity2k9 wrote:On September 24 2011 17:53 Slakter wrote:On September 24 2011 16:54 Trozz wrote:
Didn't expect this.
Does there have to be a con?
It's necessary? There needs to be a union for progamers to look out for their best interests. Kespa failed at that pretty hard and SC2Con just didnt have any balls to do anything. May just be the communist part of me talking however. How do you figure this? Isn't having things like player drafts when a team disbands a positive thing.. the only thing you can argue that they do wrong in regards to players is how free agents work, but i'm pretty sure it's to help balance the teams out and stop all the top players being signed by a single team. If you are gonna argue 'omg they practice for so long' that's down to the teams themselves. But simply anyone who doesn't practice hard isn't even going to be a pro anyway in BW, you can't force a maximum practice time on people. Its more the fact that the lower level pros dont get paid enough for their work IMO. If Progaming had a strong union that cared more about the players I bet there would be a lot more discussion internally about players salaries. People keep bringing up the foreign scene and minor foreign tournaments as if we should care and they should even be involved in anything like this in the first place. Organization is needed for the top level of progaming, no one gives a shit about controlling the rest of it. The global SC2 scene is strong, we don't need a strong-arm organisation trying to control everyone else, especially not if it's operating from one of the smaller countries involved. There's a lot more money in North America and Europe (I'm never sure if FXO is considered a SEA team or just "international" :D). As I said before, some of the Korean executives that want total control over players and teams (to the detriments of the individual, I might add) are free to try and establish this like Kespa did in BW. But isolation will inevitably lead to decline in a global community like the SC2 scene. This ain't BW, son. Kespa is a board of teams/sponsors, ofc they control the league... they run and pay for most of the costs. If anything they ran it pretty fucking well since we're seeing BW on TV for 10 years strong, with wide range of viewers, while every other e-sport is delegated to teenage nerds watching it on an internet streams. Kespa did not "kill" the foreigner scene. Foreigner scene just stopped being competitive. Lot of foreigners were present at the start and one epic Canadian even won an OSL. It's not Kespa's fault foreigners sucked at the game and couldn't compete at the highest level. Are people really angry at Kespa doesn't give the poor foreigner pity air time despite being below most Korean B-teamers? Not giving shitty players air time means its serious and legitimate e-sport. their lack of desire to help and explore leagues and stuff for international players, whether they are b-teamers or worse is what has lead to stagnation in the broodwar scene. kespa's completely internal view point is what will kill broodwar. maybe not today, maybe not this year, but if you dont care about growth the only way is down. and we sit here now talking about how the korean scene needs western money in sc2, to help bring them into the international game so they can take part. the same argument can be levied at BW, the lack of money in the foreign scene makes it very very hard to break into as a white guy. im not saying the koreans arent the best in the world, but baring having the greatest BW talent of all time, its impossible to bankroll a career in BW now to last you long enough to go pro. this is the flaw with looking after the teams and sponsors above all else. teams dont matter, teams will come and go. sponsors and players are what matter, that (imo) is kespas flaw
Kespa IS the sponsor of the team and they fund all of the teamhouses. They are also in charge of making BW legitimate so sponsors outside of just XXXTREME *insert computer hardware* is willing to sponsor tournaments for a videogame.
You think Korea Air/Shinan Bank/ABC mart is going to sponsor a tournament if an organization like Kespa did not exist?
They sponsor BW because they know:
A) Other major corporations are willing to fund teams/teamhouses (a much larger investment than just a single OSL/MSL)
B) Pro-gamers are licensed with a set rule for their conduct (Not anyone can call themselves a progamer and stream themselves calling people "faggot ass noob" on streams or w/e)
C) Tournaments are ran with professional conduct. They have strict guidelines of how they are ran and professional casters.
Guess who is responsible for all that structure? Do you see something like that ever happening in SC2 without an organization with actual power?
PS Kespa has been trying to expand internationally, except to China. Because BW scene in NA/EU was tiny and not all that good, compared to Korea. Its not their fault BW completely died out after 3-4 years outside Korea, thats literally how every game has been in NA. So to blame them for being sane and not pouring endless money in a hopeless market is just childish.
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So they are disbanding because they aren't as powerful as Kespa was, in order to create a new organization that IS powerful enough to ruin things.
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This really shows a lot of humility on the part of the members of sc2con, and it's great to hear that the people at the top are putting in a serious effort to give the teams the best organizational structure they can. It takes a very strong group to decide that they are not needed, and to set out to create something better. Good job to everyone involved, I have a lot of faith in the former members of sc2con to create something really strong and lasting to take this sport into the future.
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On September 25 2011 08:40 wassbix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 07:14 Holykitty wrote:On September 25 2011 03:33 wassbix wrote:On September 25 2011 02:53 Bobster wrote:On September 25 2011 02:25 whateverpeeps wrote:On September 25 2011 00:01 masterbreti wrote:On September 24 2011 22:46 Bobster wrote:
SC2con was dead in my eyes when I heard that they
1) were responsible for less Koreans in NASL because while only some of the teams weren't happy, everyone else had to bow out due to SC2con forcing "solidarity" - basically, if one team doesn't want to play, no one plays. Without SC2con, we would've had more Korean players than the 6 (on non-Korean teams) we have now, make no mistake.
Auctally sc2con wasn't involved in that decision at all, and had nothing to do with it. It was all the teams talking together about it and mr. Chae being the front man (so to speak) Actually, they were. Never officially, but they were. What I believe happened from all that I've read (and I read a lot about this situation), is that 1-2 Korean teams were dissatisfied with the deposits and travel costs because of lack of funding. I believe SC2Con's role was to represent the wishes of those few teams, by forcing an all-Korean withdrawal. If you've read FXO's post about SC2Con's methods of...persuasion...before he edited it, you would see Sc2Con acts through threats, harassment and intimidation. Additionally, they represent a strong Korean vs The World mantra, so it is very likely that they harassed team managers into abiding, threatening to label them Korean traitors. Well said. There's a reason why the two most independent Korean teams (SlayerS, FXO) didn't want anything to do with SC2con. Smaller teams didn't have the luxury of independence and were forced to comply with SC2con. Very happy that their strong-arm tactics did not pan out, even though it cost us (and NASL) a certain price to see it happen. I wonder if that and the FXO incident weren't key factors when SC2con realised they didn't have as much power over everyone as they thought and disbanding was appropriate. On September 25 2011 02:31 infinity2k9 wrote:On September 24 2011 18:53 Slakter wrote:On September 24 2011 18:45 infinity2k9 wrote:On September 24 2011 17:53 Slakter wrote:On September 24 2011 16:54 Trozz wrote:
Didn't expect this.
Does there have to be a con?
It's necessary? There needs to be a union for progamers to look out for their best interests. Kespa failed at that pretty hard and SC2Con just didnt have any balls to do anything. May just be the communist part of me talking however. How do you figure this? Isn't having things like player drafts when a team disbands a positive thing.. the only thing you can argue that they do wrong in regards to players is how free agents work, but i'm pretty sure it's to help balance the teams out and stop all the top players being signed by a single team. If you are gonna argue 'omg they practice for so long' that's down to the teams themselves. But simply anyone who doesn't practice hard isn't even going to be a pro anyway in BW, you can't force a maximum practice time on people. Its more the fact that the lower level pros dont get paid enough for their work IMO. If Progaming had a strong union that cared more about the players I bet there would be a lot more discussion internally about players salaries. People keep bringing up the foreign scene and minor foreign tournaments as if we should care and they should even be involved in anything like this in the first place. Organization is needed for the top level of progaming, no one gives a shit about controlling the rest of it. The global SC2 scene is strong, we don't need a strong-arm organisation trying to control everyone else, especially not if it's operating from one of the smaller countries involved. There's a lot more money in North America and Europe (I'm never sure if FXO is considered a SEA team or just "international" :D). As I said before, some of the Korean executives that want total control over players and teams (to the detriments of the individual, I might add) are free to try and establish this like Kespa did in BW. But isolation will inevitably lead to decline in a global community like the SC2 scene. This ain't BW, son. Kespa is a board of teams/sponsors, ofc they control the league... they run and pay for most of the costs. If anything they ran it pretty fucking well since we're seeing BW on TV for 10 years strong, with wide range of viewers, while every other e-sport is delegated to teenage nerds watching it on an internet streams. Kespa did not "kill" the foreigner scene. Foreigner scene just stopped being competitive. Lot of foreigners were present at the start and one epic Canadian even won an OSL. It's not Kespa's fault foreigners sucked at the game and couldn't compete at the highest level. Are people really angry at Kespa doesn't give the poor foreigner pity air time despite being below most Korean B-teamers? Not giving shitty players air time means its serious and legitimate e-sport. their lack of desire to help and explore leagues and stuff for international players, whether they are b-teamers or worse is what has lead to stagnation in the broodwar scene. kespa's completely internal view point is what will kill broodwar. maybe not today, maybe not this year, but if you dont care about growth the only way is down. and we sit here now talking about how the korean scene needs western money in sc2, to help bring them into the international game so they can take part. the same argument can be levied at BW, the lack of money in the foreign scene makes it very very hard to break into as a white guy. im not saying the koreans arent the best in the world, but baring having the greatest BW talent of all time, its impossible to bankroll a career in BW now to last you long enough to go pro. this is the flaw with looking after the teams and sponsors above all else. teams dont matter, teams will come and go. sponsors and players are what matter, that (imo) is kespas flaw Kespa IS the sponsor of the team and they fund all of the teamhouses. They are also in charge of making BW legitimate so sponsors outside of just XXXTREME *insert computer hardware* is willing to sponsor tournaments for a videogame. You think Korea Air/Shinan Bank/ABC mart is going to sponsor a tournament if an organization like Kespa did not exist? They sponsor BW because they know: A) Other major corporations are willing to fund teams/teamhouses (a much larger investment than just a single OSL/MSL) B) Pro-gamers are licensed with a set rule for their conduct (Not anyone can call themselves a progamer and stream themselves calling people "faggot ass noob" on streams or w/e) C) Tournaments are ran with professional conduct. They have strict guidelines of how they are ran and professional casters. Guess who is responsible for all that structure? Do you see something like that ever happening in SC2 without an organization with actual power? PS Kespa has been trying to expand internationally, except to China. Because BW scene in NA/EU was tiny and not all that good, compared to Korea. Its not their fault BW completely died out after 3-4 years outside Korea, thats literally how every game has been in NA. So to blame them for being sane and not pouring endless money in a hopeless market is just childish.
thats not what im saying at all
kespa on the whole is a good idea, i just dont like their korea vs the world view point, and their putting teams above players. i cant actually see a reason for the whole pro licsence system, surely all it does it make starting to play BW more of a risk for young players
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^ the licensing system does make it harder to enter pro gaming. But that IS the point. Restricted entry = better returns / wages for players who do make it. The same principle works for CPA's, lawyers, cab drivers in areas with "medallions", etc.
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On September 25 2011 12:45 citi.zen wrote:
^ the licensing system does make it harder to enter pro gaming. But that IS the point. Restricted entry = better returns / wages for players who do make it. The same principle works for CPA's, lawyers, cab drivers in areas with "medallions", etc.
ye, can only imagine the day where licensing is required to compete at an MLG. that would be the day.
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On September 25 2011 06:38 windsupernova wrote:
Seriously all htis KESPA hate is.. paranoid and moronic.
Did KESPA made some really stupid rules and decision?
Yes, definitively.
But without KESPA e sports wouldn´t be what it is now, they helped the scene a lot(and hindered it in some ways but thats not the point). And LOL @ KESPA killing BW outside of Korea, did they make everyone magically suck?
You're right, KESPA didn't cause the death of the Brood War scene, it was both the release of Starcraft 2, the lack of money in Brood War, the almost entirely dead support of Starcraft: Brood War from Blizzard (they removed ladder and archived much of the original battle.net site, and list an external ladder (WGTour) that no longer exists) and the suckiness of Brood War players that killed the international Brood War scene.
NonY (a.k.a. Liquid'Tyler) was the best Starcraft: Brood War player by far, winning the TSL2 over Mondragon and being the closest foreigner since Grrr around 9 years ago to win a Starleague. And by "win a Starleague", I mean he barely lost out on a progamer licence from a Courage tournament when he was knocked out in the last round.
The only foreigner who even matched NonY's skill was Androide, the man who most notably reached second place, probably the highest a non-Korean has ever placed in a World Cyber Games event, and lost only to fOru, taking down the likes of players like Silent_Control.
Neither NonY or Androide can even compete to the likes of other notable current and former Brood War players like Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Fantasy, JangBi, Bisu, iloveoov, sAviOr, BoxeR, NaDa etc.
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On September 25 2011 13:30 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 06:38 windsupernova wrote:
Seriously all htis KESPA hate is.. paranoid and moronic.
Did KESPA made some really stupid rules and decision?
Yes, definitively.
But without KESPA e sports wouldn´t be what it is now, they helped the scene a lot(and hindered it in some ways but thats not the point). And LOL @ KESPA killing BW outside of Korea, did they make everyone magically suck? You're right, KESPA didn't cause the death of the Brood War scene, it was both the release of Starcraft 2, the lack of money in Brood War, the almost entirely dead support of Starcraft: Brood War from Blizzard (they removed ladder and archived much of the original battle.net site, and list an external ladder (WGTour) that no longer exists) and the suckiness of Brood War players that killed the international Brood War scene. NonY (a.k.a. Liquid'Tyler) was the best Starcraft: Brood War player by far, winning the TSL2 over Mondragon and being the closest foreigner since Grrr around 9 years ago to win a Starleague. And by "win a Starleague", I mean he barely lost out on a progamer licence from a Courage tournament when he was knocked out in the last round. The only foreigner who even matched NonY's skill was Androide, the man who most notably reached second place, probably the highest a non-Korean has ever placed in a World Cyber Games event, and lost only to fOru, taking down the likes of players like Silent_Control. Neither NonY or Androide can even compete to the likes of other notable current and former Brood War players like Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Fantasy, JangBi, Bisu, iloveoov, sAviOr, BoxeR, NaDa etc.
I like how u act as if idra doesn't exist. He was far better then NoNy. dunno if this is a troll. I believe there was a foreigner who won a courage tourney..
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On September 25 2011 13:48 VPCursed wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 13:30 Clbull wrote:On September 25 2011 06:38 windsupernova wrote:
Seriously all htis KESPA hate is.. paranoid and moronic.
Did KESPA made some really stupid rules and decision?
Yes, definitively.
But without KESPA e sports wouldn´t be what it is now, they helped the scene a lot(and hindered it in some ways but thats not the point). And LOL @ KESPA killing BW outside of Korea, did they make everyone magically suck? You're right, KESPA didn't cause the death of the Brood War scene, it was both the release of Starcraft 2, the lack of money in Brood War, the almost entirely dead support of Starcraft: Brood War from Blizzard (they removed ladder and archived much of the original battle.net site, and list an external ladder (WGTour) that no longer exists) and the suckiness of Brood War players that killed the international Brood War scene. NonY (a.k.a. Liquid'Tyler) was the best Starcraft: Brood War player by far, winning the TSL2 over Mondragon and being the closest foreigner since Grrr around 9 years ago to win a Starleague. And by "win a Starleague", I mean he barely lost out on a progamer licence from a Courage tournament when he was knocked out in the last round. The only foreigner who even matched NonY's skill was Androide, the man who most notably reached second place, probably the highest a non-Korean has ever placed in a World Cyber Games event, and lost only to fOru, taking down the likes of players like Silent_Control. Neither NonY or Androide can even compete to the likes of other notable current and former Brood War players like Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Fantasy, JangBi, Bisu, iloveoov, sAviOr, BoxeR, NaDa etc. I like how u act as if idra doesn't exist. He was far better then NoNy. dunno if this is a troll. I believe there was a foreigner who won a courage tourney..
assem i believe won courage once
nony did beat idra in tsl2
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On September 25 2011 14:20 GoodRamen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 13:48 VPCursed wrote:On September 25 2011 13:30 Clbull wrote:On September 25 2011 06:38 windsupernova wrote:
Seriously all htis KESPA hate is.. paranoid and moronic.
Did KESPA made some really stupid rules and decision?
Yes, definitively.
But without KESPA e sports wouldn´t be what it is now, they helped the scene a lot(and hindered it in some ways but thats not the point). And LOL @ KESPA killing BW outside of Korea, did they make everyone magically suck? You're right, KESPA didn't cause the death of the Brood War scene, it was both the release of Starcraft 2, the lack of money in Brood War, the almost entirely dead support of Starcraft: Brood War from Blizzard (they removed ladder and archived much of the original battle.net site, and list an external ladder (WGTour) that no longer exists) and the suckiness of Brood War players that killed the international Brood War scene. NonY (a.k.a. Liquid'Tyler) was the best Starcraft: Brood War player by far, winning the TSL2 over Mondragon and being the closest foreigner since Grrr around 9 years ago to win a Starleague. And by "win a Starleague", I mean he barely lost out on a progamer licence from a Courage tournament when he was knocked out in the last round. The only foreigner who even matched NonY's skill was Androide, the man who most notably reached second place, probably the highest a non-Korean has ever placed in a World Cyber Games event, and lost only to fOru, taking down the likes of players like Silent_Control. Neither NonY or Androide can even compete to the likes of other notable current and former Brood War players like Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Fantasy, JangBi, Bisu, iloveoov, sAviOr, BoxeR, NaDa etc. I like how u act as if idra doesn't exist. He was far better then NoNy. dunno if this is a troll. I believe there was a foreigner who won a courage tourney.. assem i believe won courage once nony did beat idra in tsl2
Both were awesome BW players Idra got real good whilst at CJ and yeah nony beat idra in tsl.
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With this, I hope it would be less dramatic in the Korean scene
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Some of the KESPA hate in here in absurd. KESPA is the reason major companies sponsor Brood War, the reason it is on Television and the reason that ten years after it's release it's still the most lucrative esport in the world.
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Although I don't agree with everything that Kespa and SC2con have done, I do recognize that there needs to be a body to govern the competitive starcraft 2 scene.
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I never even heard of SC2Con, but sad news indeed.
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On September 26 2011 02:16 ODieN wrote:
I never even heard of SC2Con, but sad news indeed.
If you had heard about them, you wouldn't be sad about it =)
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EPT
