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SC2Con disbands - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
240 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 Next All
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8165 Posts
September 26 2011 13:30 GMT
#221
Never really heard much about the organization except for the bad stuff. NASL s2 comes to mind..and did they really discourage people from streaming? Yes, lets make sure people can't watch sc2 anywhere but large tournaments. Thats going to be ideal!

Of course, good news has a thing of not being highlighted. But from the very very little I've heard, it sounds like its just as good they disbanded.
Tofugrinder
Profile Joined September 2010
Austria899 Posts
September 26 2011 13:45 GMT
#222
On September 26 2011 22:30 Excludos wrote:
Never really heard much about the organization except for the bad stuff. NASL s2 comes to mind..and did they really discourage people from streaming? Yes, lets make sure people can't watch sc2 anywhere but large tournaments. Thats going to be ideal!

Of course, good news has a thing of not being highlighted. But from the very very little I've heard, it sounds like its just as good they disbanded.

as mentioned about 1000times on TL already: sc2con had nothing to do with nasl.
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8165 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-26 16:37:34
September 26 2011 14:13 GMT
#223
On September 26 2011 22:45 Tofugrinder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2011 22:30 Excludos wrote:
Never really heard much about the organization except for the bad stuff. NASL s2 comes to mind..and did they really discourage people from streaming? Yes, lets make sure people can't watch sc2 anywhere but large tournaments. Thats going to be ideal!

Of course, good news has a thing of not being highlighted. But from the very very little I've heard, it sounds like its just as good they disbanded.

as mentioned about 1000times on TL already: sc2con had nothing to do with nasl.


Could you quote one of those 1000 times please?

Meanwhile: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253750

with quote from NASL themself: BoxeR already declined participation (his withdrawal came before the SC2Con decision, but for similar reasons)

Did I miss somewhere where this wasn't sc2cons decision after all?
Scraps
Profile Joined June 2010
United States39 Posts
September 26 2011 15:02 GMT
#224
So what they're saying is, their draconian recommendations weren't strong enough, so they're going to make a ruling body that all teams must be forced to join so when they want to manipulate the tournament scene for the the profit of the cartels that own these teams and the Kpop slaves they will be forced to listen.

Gosh, I hope they don't start making player throw matches to fuel illegal gambling, again.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Match_Fixing_Scandal
Scraps
Oktyabr
Profile Joined July 2011
Singapore2234 Posts
September 26 2011 15:41 GMT
#225
On September 27 2011 00:02 Scraps wrote:
So what they're saying is, their draconian recommendations weren't strong enough, so they're going to make a ruling body that all teams must be forced to join so when they want to manipulate the tournament scene for the the profit of the cartels that own these teams and the Kpop slaves they will be forced to listen.

Gosh, I hope they don't start making player throw matches to fuel illegal gambling, again.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Match_Fixing_Scandal


That's the wackiest assertion I've ever heard.
Ryo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
8787 Posts
September 26 2011 16:25 GMT
#226
On September 26 2011 21:12 Primadog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2011 19:30 rasers wrote:
On September 26 2011 13:19 Oktyabr wrote:
On September 26 2011 05:59 nalgene wrote:
Is it possible to get a player who gets paid 200k+ per year before any winnings/advertisements included without that organization?


Moon had a $200k annual salary while he was on WeMadeFox. I believe he was earning $10K a month while he was on MYM. But then everyone back then was complaining about how MYM was spoiling the market anyway. I'm referring to the times when he was contracted for W3, of course.

Yup on WeMadeFox and we all know WeMadeFox was part of what? yes right Kespa.

and MYM went down right after the contracts so i doubt they paid him that.


Only WeMadeFox's BW division is part of KeSPA. It's actually the reason why Moon, Lyn, and Soccer (Fox's W3 team) were allowed to play sc2 while Fox's BW team were not.


Of course, given this development. Things will change soon.

Wrong. Another person who has no idea what Kespa is.
영원히 엠비씨게임 히어로 팬.
Tofugrinder
Profile Joined September 2010
Austria899 Posts
September 26 2011 16:37 GMT
#227
On September 26 2011 23:13 Excludos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2011 22:45 Tofugrinder wrote:
On September 26 2011 22:30 Excludos wrote:
Never really heard much about the organization except for the bad stuff. NASL s2 comes to mind..and did they really discourage people from streaming? Yes, lets make sure people can't watch sc2 anywhere but large tournaments. Thats going to be ideal!

Of course, good news has a thing of not being highlighted. But from the very very little I've heard, it sounds like its just as good they disbanded.

as mentioned about 1000times on TL already: sc2con had nothing to do with nasl.


Could you quote every one of those 1000 times please?

Meanwhile: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253750

with quote from NASL themself: BoxeR already declined participation (his withdrawal came before the SC2Con decision, but for similar reasons)

Did I miss somewhere where this wasn't sc2cons decision after all?

try reading the whole thread and you'll find the answer. Just because the OP isn't correct it doesn't mean you are
SLTR.Maverick
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada142 Posts
September 26 2011 17:03 GMT
#228
Good, all I've been hearing about SC2Con are bad things. Hopefully another organisation can be formed to regulate the SC2 scene. Also hopefully they do it better this time.
[S]laughter Gaming
Yareq
Profile Joined June 2011
United States39 Posts
September 26 2011 17:44 GMT
#229
Sweet, no need for them. Or KeSPA, but they're not going anywhere.
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8165 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-26 20:53:24
September 26 2011 20:52 GMT
#230
On September 27 2011 01:37 Tofugrinder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2011 23:13 Excludos wrote:
On September 26 2011 22:45 Tofugrinder wrote:
On September 26 2011 22:30 Excludos wrote:
Never really heard much about the organization except for the bad stuff. NASL s2 comes to mind..and did they really discourage people from streaming? Yes, lets make sure people can't watch sc2 anywhere but large tournaments. Thats going to be ideal!

Of course, good news has a thing of not being highlighted. But from the very very little I've heard, it sounds like its just as good they disbanded.

as mentioned about 1000times on TL already: sc2con had nothing to do with nasl.


Could you quote every one of those 1000 times please?

Meanwhile: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253750

with quote from NASL themself: BoxeR already declined participation (his withdrawal came before the SC2Con decision, but for similar reasons)

Did I miss somewhere where this wasn't sc2cons decision after all?

try reading the whole thread and you'll find the answer. Just because the OP isn't correct it doesn't mean you are


Thanks for helping me out. I'll sit down and read the entire 179 pages on the thread now.

Seriously. If you don't have anything useful, don't answer. My question was sincere. If every team in sc2con decided to pull out, and nasl said it was sc2cons decision, it would be nice of anyone to actually confirm whetever or not that was the case. Not just throw out "you're wrong" or "read the thread".
wassbix
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada499 Posts
September 26 2011 21:00 GMT
#231
On September 27 2011 05:52 Excludos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2011 01:37 Tofugrinder wrote:
On September 26 2011 23:13 Excludos wrote:
On September 26 2011 22:45 Tofugrinder wrote:
On September 26 2011 22:30 Excludos wrote:
Never really heard much about the organization except for the bad stuff. NASL s2 comes to mind..and did they really discourage people from streaming? Yes, lets make sure people can't watch sc2 anywhere but large tournaments. Thats going to be ideal!

Of course, good news has a thing of not being highlighted. But from the very very little I've heard, it sounds like its just as good they disbanded.

as mentioned about 1000times on TL already: sc2con had nothing to do with nasl.


Could you quote every one of those 1000 times please?

Meanwhile: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253750

with quote from NASL themself: BoxeR already declined participation (his withdrawal came before the SC2Con decision, but for similar reasons)

Did I miss somewhere where this wasn't sc2cons decision after all?

try reading the whole thread and you'll find the answer. Just because the OP isn't correct it doesn't mean you are


Thanks for helping me out. I'll sit down and read the entire 179 pages on the thread now.

Seriously. If you don't have anything useful, don't answer. My question was sincere. If every team in sc2con decided to pull out, and nasl said it was sc2cons decision, it would be nice of anyone to actually confirm whetever or not that was the case. Not just throw out "you're wrong" or "read the thread".



Or you could read the first couple pages (gasp reading!) where it was answered and not grace us with your ignorance. It's not the job of others to baby feed you information, especially if you can't even be polite about it.
rasers
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden691 Posts
September 26 2011 23:29 GMT
#232
On September 26 2011 21:19 Oktyabr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2011 19:30 rasers wrote:
On September 26 2011 13:19 Oktyabr wrote:
On September 26 2011 05:59 nalgene wrote:
Is it possible to get a player who gets paid 200k+ per year before any winnings/advertisements included without that organization?


Moon had a $200k annual salary while he was on WeMadeFox. I believe he was earning $10K a month while he was on MYM. But then everyone back then was complaining about how MYM was spoiling the market anyway. I'm referring to the times when he was contracted for W3, of course.

Yup on WeMadeFox and we all know WeMadeFox was part of what? yes right Kespa.

and MYM went down right after the contracts so i doubt they paid him that.


You're implying that Kespa did something for the WC3 Korean players? They didn't have any form of license for them.

FOX took Moon in because he was a super star on his own right. He had a remarkable market value in the WC3 scene, and the team obviously believed that he was worth the investment. I can't really see how Kespa is in anyway responsible for Moon's salary.

Moon was on MYM for three years. He was paid that figure. In fact his incredulous salary on MYM back then was partly the reason why players like Lyn, Remind and Soju decided to leave Team WE, because they felt that they were underpaid by a huge margin when they all believed that they were capable of competing with Moon.

and when teh fuck did i say Kespa paid him?

watch all the whole quote. guy starts talking about if its possible 2 get 200k+ per year salary without such a big organisation.
and then the other guy quotes him and talks about a player that is part of a team from the organisation?!?!?

i never said Kespa paid him. but WMF paid him who is/was part of Kespa.

but keep seeing stuff i never wrote
discw
Profile Joined April 2010
United States122 Posts
September 27 2011 00:38 GMT
#233
On September 26 2011 07:17 wassbix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2011 04:58 MildSeven wrote:
with the addition of foreign-korean hybrid teams, it will be difficult to establish a KESPA-like organization when foreign opinions are mixed in.


Because foreigners love freedom so much that they would never ever ... *looks at NFL/NHL/FIFA* oh...


KESPA is very different from how those leagues are run, (at least the 1st 2, I don't know details of FIFA), your point makes no sense.
Fatze
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Germany1342 Posts
September 27 2011 00:44 GMT
#234
good thing... i expect a lot
Comfort from bottles, cheers from beers the guitars are our weapons and we know how to kill!
Bobster
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany3075 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-27 00:51:59
September 27 2011 00:51 GMT
#235
On September 27 2011 06:00 wassbix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2011 05:52 Excludos wrote:
On September 27 2011 01:37 Tofugrinder wrote:
On September 26 2011 23:13 Excludos wrote:
On September 26 2011 22:45 Tofugrinder wrote:
On September 26 2011 22:30 Excludos wrote:
Never really heard much about the organization except for the bad stuff. NASL s2 comes to mind..and did they really discourage people from streaming? Yes, lets make sure people can't watch sc2 anywhere but large tournaments. Thats going to be ideal!

Of course, good news has a thing of not being highlighted. But from the very very little I've heard, it sounds like its just as good they disbanded.

as mentioned about 1000times on TL already: sc2con had nothing to do with nasl.


Could you quote every one of those 1000 times please?

Meanwhile: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253750

with quote from NASL themself: BoxeR already declined participation (his withdrawal came before the SC2Con decision, but for similar reasons)

Did I miss somewhere where this wasn't sc2cons decision after all?

try reading the whole thread and you'll find the answer. Just because the OP isn't correct it doesn't mean you are


Thanks for helping me out. I'll sit down and read the entire 179 pages on the thread now.

Seriously. If you don't have anything useful, don't answer. My question was sincere. If every team in sc2con decided to pull out, and nasl said it was sc2cons decision, it would be nice of anyone to actually confirm whetever or not that was the case. Not just throw out "you're wrong" or "read the thread".



Or you could read the first couple pages (gasp reading!) where it was answered and not grace us with your ignorance. It's not the job of others to baby feed you information, especially if you can't even be polite about it.

SC2con was clearly involved in that decision. FXO had to negotiate with SC2con for FXOsc's participation (one of the major reasons FXO left SC2con shortly afterwards), team MVP members who wanted to play were not allowed to play because Mr.Chae and the team coaches (except SlayerS) came to the agreement that none of the Korean teams should participate.

So basically... the members of SC2con made a decision on behalf of the teams represented by SC2con concerning the Korean scene represented by SC2con... and then proceeded to say "SC2con had nothing to do with this" in official channels.

It's semantics. The same people involved, the same dynamics at work. And internally (in FXO's interaction with the others) it was referred to as SC2con.


On September 27 2011 09:38 discw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2011 07:17 wassbix wrote:
On September 26 2011 04:58 MildSeven wrote:
with the addition of foreign-korean hybrid teams, it will be difficult to establish a KESPA-like organization when foreign opinions are mixed in.


Because foreigners love freedom so much that they would never ever ... *looks at NFL/NHL/FIFA* oh...


KESPA is very different from how those leagues are run, (at least the 1st 2, I don't know details of FIFA), your point makes no sense.

Oh, it does make sense, it just completely backfired on him.

The first two examples he mentions are perfect analogies to GOM/MLG/IEM and no one has anything against these tournament organisers.

His last analogy also fits, because FIFA is a governing body controlling the scene - much like Kespa - and it's a terrible organisation, completely corrupt (it's openly known that its most important members can be bought when decisions are made) and mostly concerned with filling their own pockets on other's people expense.
wassbix
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada499 Posts
September 27 2011 02:01 GMT
#236
On September 27 2011 09:51 Bobster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2011 06:00 wassbix wrote:
On September 27 2011 05:52 Excludos wrote:
On September 27 2011 01:37 Tofugrinder wrote:
On September 26 2011 23:13 Excludos wrote:
On September 26 2011 22:45 Tofugrinder wrote:
On September 26 2011 22:30 Excludos wrote:
Never really heard much about the organization except for the bad stuff. NASL s2 comes to mind..and did they really discourage people from streaming? Yes, lets make sure people can't watch sc2 anywhere but large tournaments. Thats going to be ideal!

Of course, good news has a thing of not being highlighted. But from the very very little I've heard, it sounds like its just as good they disbanded.

as mentioned about 1000times on TL already: sc2con had nothing to do with nasl.


Could you quote every one of those 1000 times please?

Meanwhile: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253750

with quote from NASL themself: BoxeR already declined participation (his withdrawal came before the SC2Con decision, but for similar reasons)

Did I miss somewhere where this wasn't sc2cons decision after all?

try reading the whole thread and you'll find the answer. Just because the OP isn't correct it doesn't mean you are


Thanks for helping me out. I'll sit down and read the entire 179 pages on the thread now.

Seriously. If you don't have anything useful, don't answer. My question was sincere. If every team in sc2con decided to pull out, and nasl said it was sc2cons decision, it would be nice of anyone to actually confirm whetever or not that was the case. Not just throw out "you're wrong" or "read the thread".



Or you could read the first couple pages (gasp reading!) where it was answered and not grace us with your ignorance. It's not the job of others to baby feed you information, especially if you can't even be polite about it.

SC2con was clearly involved in that decision. FXO had to negotiate with SC2con for FXOsc's participation (one of the major reasons FXO left SC2con shortly afterwards), team MVP members who wanted to play were not allowed to play because Mr.Chae and the team coaches (except SlayerS) came to the agreement that none of the Korean teams should participate.

So basically... the members of SC2con made a decision on behalf of the teams represented by SC2con concerning the Korean scene represented by SC2con... and then proceeded to say "SC2con had nothing to do with this" in official channels.

It's semantics. The same people involved, the same dynamics at work. And internally (in FXO's interaction with the others) it was referred to as SC2con.


Show nested quote +
On September 27 2011 09:38 discw wrote:
On September 26 2011 07:17 wassbix wrote:
On September 26 2011 04:58 MildSeven wrote:
with the addition of foreign-korean hybrid teams, it will be difficult to establish a KESPA-like organization when foreign opinions are mixed in.


Because foreigners love freedom so much that they would never ever ... *looks at NFL/NHL/FIFA* oh...


KESPA is very different from how those leagues are run, (at least the 1st 2, I don't know details of FIFA), your point makes no sense.

Oh, it does make sense, it just completely backfired on him.

The first two examples he mentions are perfect analogies to GOM/MLG/IEM and no one has anything against these tournament organisers.

His last analogy also fits, because FIFA is a governing body controlling the scene - much like Kespa - and it's a terrible organisation, completely corrupt (it's openly known that its most important members can be bought when decisions are made) and mostly concerned with filling their own pockets on other's people expense.


GOM/MLG/IEM sends out invites and then sells tickets/HD passes/advertisement. They risk nothing compared to Kespa, who pay for the team infrastructure, pays player contracts and pays them a steady salary (compared to any other E-sport it is very stable). If anything the above 3 are more similar to many OSL/MSL sponsors, who just put up money for an event.

If GOM/MLG starts putting in some money beyond prize pools, then you can compare the two, till then they haven't put any real investment into E-sports like Kespa have (and no Gom's 2 bedroom apartment does not equal a training facility).

Also, the notion of corrupt Kespa boardmembers lining their pockets with E-SPORT DOLLAZZZ, is laughable at best and shows you have no clue about the Korean BW scene. Yes, the BW scene, that streams games for free, uploads VODs for free, and lets you watch live for free is simply rolling in da cash.
Oktyabr
Profile Joined July 2011
Singapore2234 Posts
September 27 2011 02:52 GMT
#237
On September 27 2011 08:29 rasers wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2011 21:19 Oktyabr wrote:
On September 26 2011 19:30 rasers wrote:
On September 26 2011 13:19 Oktyabr wrote:
On September 26 2011 05:59 nalgene wrote:
Is it possible to get a player who gets paid 200k+ per year before any winnings/advertisements included without that organization?


Moon had a $200k annual salary while he was on WeMadeFox. I believe he was earning $10K a month while he was on MYM. But then everyone back then was complaining about how MYM was spoiling the market anyway. I'm referring to the times when he was contracted for W3, of course.

Yup on WeMadeFox and we all know WeMadeFox was part of what? yes right Kespa.

and MYM went down right after the contracts so i doubt they paid him that.


You're implying that Kespa did something for the WC3 Korean players? They didn't have any form of license for them.

FOX took Moon in because he was a super star on his own right. He had a remarkable market value in the WC3 scene, and the team obviously believed that he was worth the investment. I can't really see how Kespa is in anyway responsible for Moon's salary.

Moon was on MYM for three years. He was paid that figure. In fact his incredulous salary on MYM back then was partly the reason why players like Lyn, Remind and Soju decided to leave Team WE, because they felt that they were underpaid by a huge margin when they all believed that they were capable of competing with Moon.

and when teh fuck did i say Kespa paid him?

watch all the whole quote. guy starts talking about if its possible 2 get 200k+ per year salary without such a big organisation.
and then the other guy quotes him and talks about a player that is part of a team from the organisation?!?!?

i never said Kespa paid him. but WMF paid him who is/was part of Kespa.

but keep seeing stuff i never wrote


I'm saying that with or without Kespa, Moon will still receive the same salary if WMF thinks he is worth the money. Kespa is irrelevant to Moon's pay as a WC3 player. You're trying to establish a link that isn't there.
ShadeR
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7535 Posts
September 27 2011 03:19 GMT
#238
On September 27 2011 01:25 Ryo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2011 21:12 Primadog wrote:
On September 26 2011 19:30 rasers wrote:
On September 26 2011 13:19 Oktyabr wrote:
On September 26 2011 05:59 nalgene wrote:
Is it possible to get a player who gets paid 200k+ per year before any winnings/advertisements included without that organization?


Moon had a $200k annual salary while he was on WeMadeFox. I believe he was earning $10K a month while he was on MYM. But then everyone back then was complaining about how MYM was spoiling the market anyway. I'm referring to the times when he was contracted for W3, of course.

Yup on WeMadeFox and we all know WeMadeFox was part of what? yes right Kespa.

and MYM went down right after the contracts so i doubt they paid him that.


Only WeMadeFox's BW division is part of KeSPA. It's actually the reason why Moon, Lyn, and Soccer (Fox's W3 team) were allowed to play sc2 while Fox's BW team were not.


Of course, given this development. Things will change soon.

Wrong. Another person who has no idea what Kespa is.

lol Ryo it's like stepping into a gunky swamp. Don't even get me started about the guy saying Kespa -> match fixing.
Vimsey
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom2235 Posts
September 28 2011 02:16 GMT
#239
An international organisation is a necessary evil really. FIFA was brought up earlier but they do some good with player transfers and general disputes. Where they fall down is when they think they become bigger than the game or what is right (Bosman and all the WC bidding shenanigans). But without them it would be worse. Same for Esports we do need it, recent months have shown that and its no good trying to please everyone because thats impossible. You cant please all of the people all of the time just most of the people most of the time.
Goldfish
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
September 28 2011 06:01 GMT
#240
I really think KeSPA should expand to SC2.

Right now they're limited by the GOM exclusive contract (once that ends, maybe they'll expand to SC2 and take control).

Honestly I can't wait to see what happens. KeSPA should make a commercial based on this when they return:
+ Show Spoiler +

With a KeSPA representative playing Tommy of course and Bobby Kotick playing the villain:

https://connect.microsoft.com/WindowsServerFeedback/feedback/details/741495/biggest-explorer-annoyance-automatic-sorting-windows-7-server-2008-r2-and-vista#details Allow Disable Auto Arrange in Windows 7+
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