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APA: Transgender Is No Longer A Mental Disorder

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Keep discussion objective and civil.

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Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-06 09:34:27
December 04 2012 03:12 GMT
#1

APA Revises Manual: Being Transgender Is No Longer A Mental Disorder


http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/08/21/721441/apa-issues-position-statements-supporting-transgender-care-and-civil-rights/
thinkprogress wrote:
This Saturday, the American Psychiatric Association board of trustees approved the latest proposed revisions to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, what will now be known as the DSM-V. This marks a historic milestone for people who are transgender and gender non-conforming, as their identities are no longer classified as a mental disorder. Homosexuality was similarly declassified as a mental disorder in 1973.

...


This is following a long struggle by many pushing the American Psychiatric Association to remove the classification of transgender people as mentally ill. The use of terms like "Gender Identify Disorder" basically painted trans people as mentally ill and allowed for discrimination against trans people adopting, getting jobs, and leading happy lives. There will still be standard set by the DSM-V for individuals to be diagnosed with Gender Dysphoria for "a marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and assigned gender.”

Personally, I'm glad this change is taking place. The assignment of a mental disorder to transgendered people marginalized them in courts allows them to be discriminated against legally in the US. I'm not sure how I feel about a diagnosis of some sort still existing, but I like the way it's worded-- as it is, it would allow for medical insurance to pay for gender reassignment surgery and other things that some people want when they transition. Ideally this would prevent discrimination against transgendered people and let them access the services they need as well.

I think this is a victory for America moving towards a more just society.

It seems a lot of this stuff was discussed and approved a couple years ago, and in six months when the new manual rolls it out will be official.

-As a note before any discussion on this topic, please keep the hate out.


There have been a lot of great posts in this thread, and if you don't have time to read the whole thread, please at least read these posts before contributing your thoughts.

packrat386 on being a gender:
On December 04 2012 12:53 packrat386 wrote:
Well for starters is not a question of believing you should have been born another gender. Transgendered individuals already consider themselves to be the gender that they identify with, what they find traumatic is that their body does not match.

Assume that you are a guy, and one day you wake up, physically altered in that you appear to be female (enlarged breasts, higher voice, even female hormones and its all different down there). Would you still consider yourself a man? I think many men would since they still think like a man, and act like a man, and to them it would seem perfectly reasonable to even call themselves a man.

The problem is, the whole female body thing would get in the way of a lot of daily activities. You're going to get a lot of strange looks if, for instance, you try to use the mens room. There is also the issue that you would no find your own body unattractive (nay repulsive) and that would only make your life more difficult. That's gender dysphoria.

For any of this to make sense we have to start with the assumption that gender identity is independent from sex organs you are born with, but that has been backed up by a variety of psychological studies and is the primary accepted interpretation. So it isn't believe that you should have been born the other gender. You ARE one, and now you just want to look like it and have other people recognize that reality


shinosai on definition of terms, cissexual privilege, and gender:
On December 05 2012 05:53 shinosai wrote:
Hi there. I myself identify as a trans person and I'd just like to clear up a lot of misconceptions in this thread. First, some vocabulary:

Transgender: umbrella term for people who do not line up with the gender binary as it is usually conceived. Includes transsexual, genderqueer, intersex, transvestite, agender, etc.

Transsexual: Someone whose gender does not align with their sex.

Cissexual: Someone whose gender does align with their sex.

Ok, so that being said, one of the major problems in this thread is that there is a huge prevalence of cissexual privilege that most are not even aware they have. It's completely impossible to appeal to reason with you when you don't recognize your privilege, so hopefully, I can make you more aware. The examples in this thread so far (imagine if you were born a girl but still had the same mind) will not and cannot work, for the cissexual assumes that if he were born a girl, he would simply identify as a girl. Thus, a different sort of mindset is required.

Try this example: Suppose you (a cissexual male) wake up tomorrow in the same mind and body that you are in right now. You feel exactly as you always have. You drive to the store to do some shopping. While in the men's clothing section, someone says: "Excuse me, madam, you are in the wrong section." You use the restroom, they say: "It's against the law to use the wrong restroom. Please leave." You walk around in your male clothes, and people say things like: "You're not REALLY a man. Stop pretending you sick fuck."

This is your cissexual privilege. You have never been questioned about your gender identity. You have never had to defend yourself as being who you really are. But one does not have to have a great deal of imagination to see how this could happen: Perhaps you got into a car accident, and it damaged your genitalia such that you no longer produced testosterone. And perhaps your vocal chords got damaged so you no longer have a deep voice. Indeed, people would question who you are. But you KNOW you're a guy, because you always have been. And no matter how much people treat you as female, do you really think they could someone socially mesmerize you into identifying as being female?

The other point I want to make is that there is a clear error in both gender constructionist and gender essentialist views, and neither are compatible with transsexualism. Gender constructionist says: There's no such thing as a "real" gender - we just made this stuff up. Therefore, there can be no such thing as a transsexual, because there's nothing innately female or male in the world, just stuff we made up. So there's no reason for you to want to change your body other than social norms.

Gender constructionists must ignore decades of research on intersexed individuals. Scientists thought with intersex, if you just remove one of the "defective"genitals, you could raise the child as if they were the sex (and gender) of your choice. Turns out, this was a fucking disaster. It was wrong. Intersexed individuals often end up discovering their condition and wish to revert to the other sex.

Gender essentialists, on the other hand - those that believe that we are "born" with genders - are equally wrong. We clearly have a wide variety of gender preferences and roles in society, from tomboyish women to effeminate men. And clearly to some degree these traits can be influenced by our upbringing. Female mannerisms such as occupying little space, having a weak handshake, walking in a particular way, wearing makeup, being "pretty" - are not necessary to being a woman. Nor is being a strong alpha male necessary to being a man.

It's high time we stopped pretending that gender is either completely constructed or essential to our biology. Gender and sexuality is fluid, it occupies far more than a mere binary. It's both constructed and biological, just like intelligence, work ethic, social skills, etc. We have innate tendencies that we tend to go towards, that can be enhanced or downplayed based on our in environments.

A final point, specifically to the people that say we must identify men and women based on their chromosomes or their genitalia: This completely ignores the fact that whether we are treated as a man or woman has absolutely nothing to do with these things. No one walks around with their birth certificates, and I am willing to bet that not a single fucking person in this thread has ever had their chromosomes examined (and if they did, they might get a surprising result, like xxy). Nor do we treat people as women or men based on their primary sexual characteristics (penis or vagina) at first glance. Rather, 99% of the reason we treat someone as a man or woman is based on an instantaneous evaluation of their secondary characteristics. To claim anything else is ad hoc reasoning applied after the fact.

Also, being transgender is not a mental disorder in my opinion because this implies that transsexuals need "therapy." The reality, though, is that the existence of the strict requirements for medications and surgeries to transition is more about protecting cissexual people that might be mistaken (perhaps .00000001% of the population) rather than helping people who actually are transsexual. That's why it's called a disorder - to protect cissexuals.


Befree on discrimination:
On December 06 2012 09:01 Befree wrote:
There was a report in 2011 that went over a lot of the discrimination they face. I don't think most people are aware of how much they deal with so I really encourage everyone to look through the report summary. The study is based on 6,145 transgender and non-gender conforming participants from throughout the U.S. Here are some excerpts from the executive summary (source http://endtransdiscrimination.org/PDFs/NTDS_Exec_Summary.pdf ):
Show nested quote +

-A staggering 41% of respondents reported attempting suicide compared to 1.6% of the general population, with rates rising for those who lost a job due to bias (55%), were harassed/bullied in school (51%), had low household income, or were the victim of physical assault (61%) or sexual assault (64%).

-Those who expressed a transgender identity or gender non-conformity while in grades K-12 reported alarming rates of harassment (78%), physical assault (35%) and sexual violence (12%); harassment was so severe that it led almost one-sixth (15%) to leave a school in K-12 settings or in higher education.

-Widespread mistreatment at work: Ninety percent (90%) of those surveyed reported experiencing harassment, mistreatment or discrimination on the job or took actions like hiding who they are to avoid it.

-Forty-seven percent (47%) said they had experienced an adverse job outcome, such as being fired, not hired or denied a promotion because of being transgender or gender non-conforming.

-Overall, 16% said they had been compelled to work in the underground economy for income (such as doing sex work or selling drugs).

-One-fifth (19%) reported experiencing homelessness at some point in their lives because they were transgender or gender non-conforming; the majority of those trying to access a homeless shelter were harassed by shelter staff or residents (55%), 29% were turned away altogether, and 22% were sexually assaulted by residents or staff.

-Respondents who have experienced homelessness were highly vulnerable to mistreatment in public settings, police abuse and negative health outcomes.

-Fifty-three percent (53%) of respondents reported being verbally harassed or disrespected in a place of public accommodation, including hotels, restaurants, buses, airports and government agencies.

-Refusal of care: 19% of our sample reported being refused medical care due to their transgender or gender non-conforming status, with even higher numbers among people of color in the survey.

-Uninformed doctors: 50% of the sample reported having to teach their medical providers about transgender care.

-Postponed care: Survey participants reported that when they were sick or injured, many postponed medical care due to discrimination (28%) or inability to afford it (48%).

-Forty-three percent (43%) maintained most of their family bonds, while 57% experienced significant family rejection.


The amount of discrimination is absolutely terrifying. But the saddest part of all this is how ignored it still is, and how so many still seem to think this discrimination is okay.

This was a big step, though. And hopefully we can start moving towards getting rid of institutional discrimination completely, which unfortunately still exists in laws in the United States for homosexuals and transgendered individuals.


When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
December 04 2012 03:21 GMT
#2
If I understand it correctly, the APA is re-classifying it not because they no longer think it is a disorder, but rather to prevent prejudice. But I don't think it is particularly going to change anything much. It seems rather political rather than scientifically grounded, as they haven't presented any proof or clear reasoning as to the change other than a desire to help the mental health of transgenders by changing the name.
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
killa_robot
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1884 Posts
December 04 2012 03:23 GMT
#3
Keeping the hate out is ignoring an entire side of the topic lol.

No idea it was considered a mental order. Good that it's not anymore if it was causing that much trouble for them.

This really won't make me any more comfortable with them though. Being homosexual or bisexual is fine by me, but mutilating your body to be someone else just seems wrong. I suppose many would disagree though.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18825 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-04 03:38:41
December 04 2012 03:24 GMT
#4
I think the entire modality by which the APA goes about applying negative diagnostic language like "disorder" is off point, but it seems that they are in the process of changing this, and the reclassification of transgenderism is definitely a step in the right direction, along with their adoption of more "spectrum" centric language. Typical clinical diagnostic jargon, while historically seemingly correct in its application to tangential fields, does not really suit a proper psychological/psychiatric diagnosis, especially when one takes into account recent advancements in psychology (and by recent I mean like within the past 40 years). Here's to moving forward.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10341 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-04 03:27:00
December 04 2012 03:26 GMT
#5
Well, believing you should have been born another gender or paying large sums of money on surgery and pills to mutate your body into something it's not to make you happy seems mentally unhealthy to me.

Preparing for wave of angry straw liberals.

User was temp banned for this post.
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
Mortal
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
2943 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-04 03:29:46
December 04 2012 03:29 GMT
#6
On December 04 2012 12:26 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Well, believing you should have been born another gender or paying large sums of money on surgery and pills to mutate your body into something it's not to make you happy seems mentally unhealthy to me.

Preparing for wave of angry straw liberals.


Last I checked, this is a completely reasonable thought (yours, not the former). I'm not really sure what the argument is here. I'm not talking about the guys that put on a dress btw, I'm citing the argument above, whereby people deliberately alter themselves.
The universe created an audience for itself.
Calm
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada380 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-04 04:39:11
December 04 2012 03:30 GMT
#7
Sorry, I'm an idiot. This is a good thing

I had expressed concern about being de-listed for medical coverage, but OP says it's worded otherwise. We'll see what the future holds
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-04 03:34:42
December 04 2012 03:31 GMT
#8
On December 04 2012 12:30 Calm wrote:
Sorry, I'm an idiot. This is a good thing.


Yeah this was a concern I had as well. It seems like there's still a classification that would allow for medical coverage to help with transitions for those who want it, though we'll need to see if in practice that turns out to be the case. I suspect though this was explicitly written to allow medical coverage! :D
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
December 04 2012 03:34 GMT
#9
.. I'm glad that there's a thread and the word is getting around but this was announced in 2010.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
December 04 2012 03:34 GMT
#10
On December 04 2012 12:34 Probe1 wrote:
.. I'm glad that there's a thread and the word is getting around but this was announced in 2010.


The changes were announced in 2010, but they only just got approved now I think
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
dan1165
Profile Joined September 2012
8 Posts
December 04 2012 03:35 GMT
#11
On December 04 2012 12:26 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Well, believing you should have been born another gender or paying large sums of money on surgery and pills to mutate your body into something it's not to make you happy seems mentally unhealthy to me.

Preparing for wave of angry straw liberals.



That's because you're not transgender and you have no idea what to feels like to be one. I'm very close with a transgender individual and he is not mentally unhealthy. He's smart and manly and if you didn't know he was born as a girl, you would never think twice about accepting him as a man.

I can't say I understand what it feels like really, but who am I to tell someone else how to be happy?
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
December 04 2012 03:38 GMT
#12
On December 04 2012 12:35 dan1165 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 12:26 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Well, believing you should have been born another gender or paying large sums of money on surgery and pills to mutate your body into something it's not to make you happy seems mentally unhealthy to me.

Preparing for wave of angry straw liberals.



That's because you're not transgender and you have no idea what to feels like to be one. I'm very close with a transgender individual and he is not mentally unhealthy. He's smart and manly and if you didn't know he was born as a girl, you would never think twice about accepting him as a man.

I can't say I understand what it feels like really, but who am I to tell someone else how to be happy?


Good anecdote.
I'm not against your disagreement, I'm against how your approach.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
GnarlyArbitrage
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
575 Posts
December 04 2012 03:40 GMT
#13
It's mentally unhealthy not to trans if you know you're trans. Depression is unhealthy, so why not try to fix it?

It's like with people who feel they shouldn't have an arm. It's weird that they feel that, but they will be very depressed until that arm is gone. Some nations don't allow amputations that aren't life-threatening, so these people will cut the limb/whatever off without medical attention.

Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-04 03:44:45
December 04 2012 03:42 GMT
#14
On December 04 2012 12:34 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 12:34 Probe1 wrote:
.. I'm glad that there's a thread and the word is getting around but this was announced in 2010.


The changes were announced in 2010, but they only just got approved now I think

They were "approved" in 2010. The blurb on CNN thinkprogress linked doesn't even directly address the removal of gender identity disorders. In fact all the article talks about is autism and it's bringing up changes that were announced over a year ago. I'm not really sure how any of this is new news. This is just the final approval after a year long field trial

Oh well, like I said it's news to most people I suppose!
Edit: That'd be a bit nutty though wouldn't you think? Adding in brand new stuff six months before they publish? The APA isn't Blizzard. They only release patches once every decade or so. They can't afford to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
Alay
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States660 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-04 03:51:18
December 04 2012 03:43 GMT
#15
Yep! Great day for progress of trans people!

On December 04 2012 12:12 Blazinghand wrote:
but I like the way it's worded-- as it is, it would allow for medical insurance to pay for gender reassignment surgery


But... I'm not holding my breath on this :/

On December 04 2012 12:23 killa_robot wrote:
Being homosexual or bisexual is fine by me, but mutilating your body to be someone else just seems wrong.


No no no. It's mutilating your body to be who you ARE.

Or, rather, mutilating your body to minimize a horrific form of depression. Either one works. And it's been shown in statistics to greatly reduce suicide rates among trans people (which is in the range of like 25%-50% already.)

Keep in mind too, not all trans people have surgery. Some are fine with their genitals and feel no dysphoria from them. Others it's a huge source of depression.

On December 04 2012 12:29 Mortal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 12:26 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Well, believing you should have been born another gender or paying large sums of money on surgery and pills to mutate your body into something it's not to make you happy seems mentally unhealthy to me.

Preparing for wave of angry straw liberals.


Last I checked, this is a completely reasonable thought (yours, not the former). I'm not really sure what the argument is here. I'm not talking about the guys that put on a dress btw, I'm citing the argument above, whereby people deliberately alter themselves.


No more unhealthy than people that get surgery to remove a brain tumor that's not immediately/directly life threatening, but causes severe headaches or other pains. To say it's on a whim is to discredit the existence of transsexuality and other forms of transgenderism--and they do exist, and they are very real. It's hard to empathize though, I suppose, if you cannot directly experience gender incongruity.

On December 04 2012 12:46 Digitalis wrote:
didnt even know it was considered one.
idk why it would still be considered one if homosexuality was declassified as one in 1973, why did transgender take forever?
i guess because it gets less press than 'gay'


Because in many parts of the world, gender deviation of any sort is not only a taboo, but VERY HATED.

I mean, hell, last year trans women in DC were getting gunned down like crazy.
Digitalis
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1043 Posts
December 04 2012 03:46 GMT
#16
didnt even know it was considered one.
idk why it would still be considered one if homosexuality was declassified as one in 1973, why did transgender take forever?
i guess because it gets less press than 'gay'
feanor1
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1899 Posts
December 04 2012 03:49 GMT
#17
On December 04 2012 12:40 DigiGnar wrote:
It's mentally unhealthy not to trans if you know you're trans. Depression is unhealthy, so why not try to fix it?

It's like with people who feel they shouldn't have an arm. It's weird that they feel that, but they will be very depressed until that arm is gone. Some nations don't allow amputations that aren't life-threatening, so these people will cut the limb/whatever off without medical attention.


Wanting to remove a perfectly healthy arm? Your example sounds like a mental disorder to me.
jdseemoreglass
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3773 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-04 03:54:07
December 04 2012 03:51 GMT
#18
Mental disorder is a completely meaningless term... All it has come to mean is "socially acceptable" or "socially unacceptable," which of course changes with time and society.

I'm afraid this thread is going to become a massive ban trap, since people are banned for even conflating sex and gender.

On December 04 2012 12:49 feanor1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 12:40 DigiGnar wrote:
It's mentally unhealthy not to trans if you know you're trans. Depression is unhealthy, so why not try to fix it?

It's like with people who feel they shouldn't have an arm. It's weird that they feel that, but they will be very depressed until that arm is gone. Some nations don't allow amputations that aren't life-threatening, so these people will cut the limb/whatever off without medical attention.


Wanting to remove a perfectly healthy arm penis? Your example sounds like a mental disorder to me.

How about now? lol
"If you want this forum to be full of half-baked philosophy discussions between pompous faggots like yourself forever, stay the course captain vanilla" - FakeSteve[TPR], 2006
corpuscle
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States1967 Posts
December 04 2012 03:52 GMT
#19
On December 04 2012 12:46 Digitalis wrote:
didnt even know it was considered one.
idk why it would still be considered one if homosexuality was declassified as one in 1973, why did transgender take forever?
i guess because it gets less press than 'gay'


It's generally not as accepted as homosexuality, even today. Just looking at the few posts in this thread is evidence enough, lots of people that are comfortable with gay people are still "weirded out" by trans people.

Anyway, it's good to hear, though I'm not sure what it'll actually mean. I'm not sure changing the DSM is going to change anybody's mind.
From the void I am born into wave and particle
GrapeApe
Profile Joined March 2011
1053 Posts
December 04 2012 03:53 GMT
#20
Awesome, good move.
GOIMBA.com <--- eSports betting :)
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