EPTWell according to the first youtube quoted video below, there IS in fact a minor change/nerf to how units drop in PTR, but it's unlikely to realistically effect gameplay very much. The first youtube video below (in the quote) demonstrates the change. The first segment in the video with the reapers obv has no realistic application in-game, and the 2nd segment with the marauders demonstrates that there is NO change to how units drop over any sort of clumped army of that nature. The final segment with force fields demonstrates the only practical application of this change. You'd just better hope they don't fungal that..
See the following by the tester in case and question:
Hi, sorry to trouble you all again. It would appear that in previous submissions I have only sensationalised and confused the general public on this matter. I now hope to put that right by releasing a new video about the changes.
Here it is:
Simple rule for viewing:
* Red is 1.3
* Yellow is 1.4
Summary: Yes the code has changed, however in the vast majority of use cases it will make little to no difference in your gaming experience... unless you like disrupting reaper parties that is....
In practice it is very hard and very situational to abuse the new logic to make the drops fail.
Its worth noting that there is one quite relatively interesting use-case at the end of the video (although its practicality is debateable).
ENJOY!
p.s. I hope this doesn't cause any further confusion.
p.p.s. Please don't comment on balance. Just ask Blizzard (nicely) to _consider_ reviewing this code if you take issue with it.
Here it is:
Simple rule for viewing:
* Red is 1.3
* Yellow is 1.4
Summary: Yes the code has changed, however in the vast majority of use cases it will make little to no difference in your gaming experience... unless you like disrupting reaper parties that is....
In practice it is very hard and very situational to abuse the new logic to make the drops fail.
Its worth noting that there is one quite relatively interesting use-case at the end of the video (although its practicality is debateable).
ENJOY!
p.s. I hope this doesn't cause any further confusion.
p.p.s. Please don't comment on balance. Just ask Blizzard (nicely) to _consider_ reviewing this code if you take issue with it.
the following quote is referring to the video in the playxp.com article below:
On September 13 2011 05:06 rale wrote:
A close look at the 1.3 video is very revealing. The 2nd baneling dropped gets deflected to the edge just like all of the ones in the 1.4 video. The 3rd and 4th manage to find a hole in the center, and the zealots dying makes enough room to allow all others to drop.
In other words, the deflection isn't a change on the PTR. The zealots in the 1.3 video just weren't in perfect enough formation to prevent dropping entirely.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Dr8ws.jpg)
A close look at the 1.3 video is very revealing. The 2nd baneling dropped gets deflected to the edge just like all of the ones in the 1.4 video. The 3rd and 4th manage to find a hole in the center, and the zealots dying makes enough room to allow all others to drop.
In other words, the deflection isn't a change on the PTR. The zealots in the 1.3 video just weren't in perfect enough formation to prevent dropping entirely.
Several other people have tested this and have been unable to find any changes or nerfs to how banelings drop over units.
===============END of MODEDIT ================
EDIT: Read end of this post to see information on semi-failed replication attempts as well as semi-successfull ones. The overall message from TLers who are properly testing it is that it's been nerfed but it's not as bad as the video in my OP... the extent of the nerf to this strategy is unclear as of now. In my experience against very good protosses, ling baneling drop infestor is pretty marginal in massive fights vs GM level toss, depending on the context of the game of course. The remaining viability of this strategy is pending further research into the extent of this nerf (also NP nerf may kill it more but time will tell whether the double nerf will completely remove this strategy). .
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According to a PlayXP post if current 1.4.0 PTR goes through, it seems Zerg can no longer use baneling drops against Protoss (see end of post for for ppl that semi-dispute this claim as well as others that endorse it in tests). You can still technically do it (if the video I've linked is an accurate representation of the change) but the tech isn't going to be worth it because the damage output in a big fight is significantly less.
The change, under bug-fixes:
Transports can no longer unload units into a dense area if the original order was issued on a fogged location.
The video:
http://www.playxp.com/sc2/news/view.php?article_id=3383490
In my experience the only things that dealt with ~8+ sentry armies in a straight up fight pre-hive were either baneling drops and/or a lot of infestors with NP - assuming Protoss is competent with FF and doesn't do stupid things like run onto creep at 160/200 without a big advnatage. I am so concerned with this as bane drops added a huge micro and multi-tasking element to ZvP.
It's not even a balance change... "bug fix". Lol.
Thanks to nGenjazbas for the find.
This also stops zergs queuing up 2+ overlords to drop probe lines simultaneously. Which is O.K. I guess, but I really don't like this being patched as 1 stalker in hold position crushes this strategy (as each INDIVIDUAL baneling needs to be microd and X'd into the probes. 3 overlords at a time is impossible. 1 max). But you can't trust a small balance team to know technicalities like this. If they stop this (i.e. if they stop Protoss's losing who don't put 1 stalker behind mineral line on hold), then they should also stop Terrans from being able to run 10 blue flame into the main in midgame and GGing zergs who don't have 3 roaches on hold on the ramp. Same same.
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EDIT: A TL user claims that a replication attempt has semi-failed.
On September 13 2011 03:08 EmilA wrote:
Tested this out a bit on EU PTR server: Here are my conclusions:
There is an issue with dropping on deathballs:
- If you issue a drop command on a huge and tight ball, then banelings will temporarily cease dropping when around the middle of the ball. It won't "stop" the drop command, as it will automatically resume towards the outskirts of the ball again.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/U0VCf.png)
4 banelings attempted dropped on top of a super-tight ball. 3 banelings dropped at beginning, all hit on the outskirt. Last baneling was dropped towards the other end of the ball.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3Rpoa.png)
Banelings dropped without problems on a not-super tight ball.
- Banelings are now "displaced" a little bit when dropped around the outskirts of the ball. A guess, which is my own rough estimate, would be that banelings can be displaced about 3 units range before the drop command temporarily ceases. Bear in mind that even small holes in the clump are potential dropsites, so these "halts" in drops would probably be very very uncommon.
- I recreated what I thought was a typical 1-a deathball vs ultra-ling-banelingbombs scenario, the protoss ball spread out in a concave that was thin enough to apparently not stop the drops from occuring.
- Usually, you can move a transport unit around freely after initiating a "drop while moving" command, but if you reissue a move command while under the "drop while moving command" over undroppable space, the drop command will be halted. Bear in mind the drop command would otherwise automatically resume when reaching the outskirts of the ball.
TLDR: Bug is there, but it probably requires unrealistic conditions to take full effect, though it may reduce overall damage capabilities of the baneling drops.
Tested this out a bit on EU PTR server: Here are my conclusions:
There is an issue with dropping on deathballs:
- If you issue a drop command on a huge and tight ball, then banelings will temporarily cease dropping when around the middle of the ball. It won't "stop" the drop command, as it will automatically resume towards the outskirts of the ball again.
4 banelings attempted dropped on top of a super-tight ball. 3 banelings dropped at beginning, all hit on the outskirt. Last baneling was dropped towards the other end of the ball.
Banelings dropped without problems on a not-super tight ball.
- Banelings are now "displaced" a little bit when dropped around the outskirts of the ball. A guess, which is my own rough estimate, would be that banelings can be displaced about 3 units range before the drop command temporarily ceases. Bear in mind that even small holes in the clump are potential dropsites, so these "halts" in drops would probably be very very uncommon.
- I recreated what I thought was a typical 1-a deathball vs ultra-ling-banelingbombs scenario, the protoss ball spread out in a concave that was thin enough to apparently not stop the drops from occuring.
- Usually, you can move a transport unit around freely after initiating a "drop while moving" command, but if you reissue a move command while under the "drop while moving command" over undroppable space, the drop command will be halted. Bear in mind the drop command would otherwise automatically resume when reaching the outskirts of the ball.
TLDR: Bug is there, but it probably requires unrealistic conditions to take full effect, though it may reduce overall damage capabilities of the baneling drops.
Person #2:
On September 13 2011 03:36 Soluhwin wrote:
EmilA is correct, according to my tests, baneling bombs are still possible but it will always hit the outskirts of a deathball. This means the overall DPS of banelings have been slaughtered in this matchup, because instead of a the full 360 degree splash on top of units, the splash will hit around 180 degrees of units. This distributes baneling splash without any effort from the protoss, I'd have to disagree with this change.
MS paint added for further explanation:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CXkgL.png)
EmilA is correct, according to my tests, baneling bombs are still possible but it will always hit the outskirts of a deathball. This means the overall DPS of banelings have been slaughtered in this matchup, because instead of a the full 360 degree splash on top of units, the splash will hit around 180 degrees of units. This distributes baneling splash without any effort from the protoss, I'd have to disagree with this change.
MS paint added for further explanation:
On September 13 2011 03:37 Clbull wrote:
Tested it. I'm having mixed results replicating the bug.
Tested it. I'm having mixed results replicating the bug.
This one makes me happy:
On September 13 2011 04:13 Zelniq wrote:
i was bored just now and just tested this in unit tester and it's basically bullshit. Currently (before patch), you can't unload banelings on top of a clumped up army with no gaps, moving drop or no moving drop. the only way it works is if there are tiny gaps in the army. which is why it works in the 'pre-patch 1.4' video.
i need further testing for 100% confidence in this but it seems all this talk is just for nothing..PTR does nothing
i was bored just now and just tested this in unit tester and it's basically bullshit. Currently (before patch), you can't unload banelings on top of a clumped up army with no gaps, moving drop or no moving drop. the only way it works is if there are tiny gaps in the army. which is why it works in the 'pre-patch 1.4' video.
i need further testing for 100% confidence in this but it seems all this talk is just for nothing..PTR does nothing
