• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:10
CEST 18:10
KST 01:10
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall4HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Flash Announces Retirement From ASL22Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?12FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event16Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster14Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? StarCraft Mass Recall: SC1 campaigns on SC2 thread How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event HomeStory Cup 27 (June 27-29) WardiTV Mondays SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 $200 Biweekly - StarCraft Evolution League #1
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady
Brood War
General
Help: rep cant save Flash Announces Retirement From ASL Where did Hovz go? [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL20] ProLeague LB Final - Saturday 20:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
Game Sound vs. Music: The Im…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 566 users

a really specific Ninja ZvP nerf (1.4.0 PTR) - Page 20

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 18 19 20 All
tarath
Profile Joined April 2009
United States377 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 04:02:56
September 15 2011 04:01 GMT
#381
On September 15 2011 12:51 weiliem wrote:
This is freaking lame.... Blizzard doesn't like to see Z winning ZvPs, they want P to have 100% win rate in PvZ, so they proceed into massive nerf on the Z race. 1st nerfing fungal, then now completely nullifying the bane drops, which is fking important against the deathball. Blizzard wants to c death ball in every PvZ games.... TQ blizzard....


Not to burden you with facts but....

GSL August:

PvZ: 23.5% (4W, 13L)

PvT: 34% (16W, 31L)

And now your QQing about something that will likely affect <1% of games. I can't even comprehend how you think this "completely nullifies" baneling drops.
scatmango2
Profile Joined November 2010
United States408 Posts
September 15 2011 04:01 GMT
#382
This nerf was totally needed. It was quite retarded when ~3 banelings could kill a a whole protoss army. People qq'ing on zerg's behalf have no idea that this was just a straight up broken mechanic and needed to be fixed.
NEgroidZerg
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States244 Posts
September 15 2011 04:07 GMT
#383
So you can avoid any drops by jsut forcefielding around your army?
Yeah
YipCraft
Profile Joined July 2011
United States216 Posts
September 15 2011 04:10 GMT
#384
Hmmm...They really really really REALLY want the zerg to return to the sloppy and terrible roach hydra corruptor vs toss...Nothing...Can...Work anymore if all zerg nerfs are going in effect. Ah well, I guess this time I will pack a flashlight for the dark times of Zerg.
integrity
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1014 Posts
September 15 2011 04:13 GMT
#385
On September 15 2011 13:07 NEgroidZerg wrote:
So you can avoid any drops by jsut forcefielding around your army?

if infestors are out the better option is to run away from the drops
Truedot
Profile Joined August 2011
444 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 08:10:52
September 15 2011 08:09 GMT
#386
On September 13 2011 08:15 I Hott Sauce I wrote:
Blizz is just raping Zerg now huh

User was warned for this post


Please cite your sources for blizzard raping zerg, and give us details and examples.

About the bane drop situation, under a colossus still counts as "free space" when not occupied, right? Thus a colossus who doesn't have units unit it will basically draw all the banes from the Ols like a magnet, since everywhere else will be packed with stalkers.

Seems like a buff to me.
I used to spend my time not caring about people's language in chat. Until I got hit by blizz. Now I spend my time instigating people to verbal abusive levels, so I can ban them in turn. The circle of life.
Truedot
Profile Joined August 2011
444 Posts
September 15 2011 08:19 GMT
#387
+ Show Spoiler +
On September 13 2011 14:12 DustyShelf wrote:
Hello! I am the creator of the original test (tpyo / BelligerentWombat) and the videos that are linked to. I just wanted to add my 0.02 cents.

First off I should really clarify that I 100% agree with the TL;DR on the original post

That is: "it probably requires unrealistic conditions to take full effect"

I apologise for my sensationalist headline and minimalist commentary on my initial posting on reddit, it has resulted in the community wildly overreacting to the change. It probably wont be an issue for most games. I have performed further testing on more realistic death balls and have clarified that everything should be okay.

Anyway, I did want to clarify a couple of things. The tests were not "failed" in any way. While I appreciate that I used a somewhat unrealistic parameters but I really wanted to see if there was any change between the two versions, hence I made a huge ball of closely clumped together zealots.
I verified my results multiple times. Exactly the same micro and setup was used almost every single time. The holes circled in the OP are not real gaps but merely appear to be due to the perspective of the 3d.
Unless 1.4 also has also made changes to the way one can clump a bunch of zealots those gaps do not exist

To clarify my findings: There is a difference between 1.3 and 1.4 in the way that the drop code is handled. In 1.3 it will permit the dropping of units into a tight cluster of units if it cannot find available space within a specific radius. In 1.4 it will delay the drop command until if finds viable space. However in 1.4 if it fails to find available space within a specific period of time the drop command will be cancelled. This is why in my 1.4 test you can see that most of the overlords fail to drop their full contingent of banelings.

Now while this should not be an issue in most games my fear is that cunning players of the future will find mechanisms to exploit this logic and cause baneling drops to fail. I really wanted to bring light to the fact that there is a flaw in the new logic in 1.4 that should be resolved before people find mechanisms to exploit it. I have added some musings to my thread on battle.net (*shudders*) and I hope the devs take note and consider improving the logic.

One example of such exploits that concern me is how players exploit the "hold" position command on workers in micro fights to make melee troops act idiotically. People seem to champion this as "amazing micro" whereas (as a software engineer) I see it as just a flaw in the system that should be fixed (not that I dislike players that do it but I don't like the fact that the exploit exists at all).

Once more I'd like to apologise for creating the video without the proper commentary alongside it to put into context and for my sensationalist title. I will be more careful with any future postings I make.

Thanks for reading this far.

TL;DR; "it probably requires unrealistic conditions to take full effect" (but there is a difference between the two versions and the tests were genuine)

---------

EDIT: WHOA! Check the post at the top of this page that states:

Show nested quote +
has anyone tested if surrounding your stalkers super tightly with forcefields will make it so banelings cannot even hit the prtosos untis when dropped?


I just did a couple of tests... and by all means we really need to test this further, preferably with two people to make the micro good (as its tough to do it all as one person)..... but from what I can gather It's true.

I don't know if it is unrealistic to have so many sentries/FFs but it is at least possible.

+ Show Spoiler +


And you're correct, And I dont really like that "mechanic" either, of hold position. Not that I don't do it. its another tool in the toolbox, and I've even done this with roaches (since bad players will not realize the range limitation will make them autoattack the workers while on hold position, making it a more resilient worker-kill force), however, the main issue is NOT hold position but "Mineral Walk". Thats the reason it works so well. In BW, this didn't exist.

"Mineral Walk", imo, gets the vote for worst mechanic addition ever. Sure, people are using it to get around or avoid being cheesed, but doesn't that say something about the game itself when a mechanic is abused in such ways to simply survive?

I put 2 and 2 together after a while and decided that I can start scouting Protoss bases with mineral walking drones.

T can do the same thing to protoss.

Meanwhile T is impervious to this.

Just one more way in which they damaged the mechanics of the gameplay for some unknown reason, leading to unintended consequences, and these factors affect balance, because it artificially deflates the value of what a protoss might by trying to tech to in secret, as one of many examples of ways it screws with the game.

I don't see how they ever thought mineral walk was a good idea. ITs the reason hellions are getting nerfed, even though mass hellions can still toast queens and a number of roaches damn quickly.

If only roaches got +2 to light...
I used to spend my time not caring about people's language in chat. Until I got hit by blizz. Now I spend my time instigating people to verbal abusive levels, so I can ban them in turn. The circle of life.
fleeze
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany895 Posts
September 15 2011 20:52 GMT
#388
On September 15 2011 17:19 Truedot wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On September 13 2011 14:12 DustyShelf wrote:
Hello! I am the creator of the original test (tpyo / BelligerentWombat) and the videos that are linked to. I just wanted to add my 0.02 cents.

First off I should really clarify that I 100% agree with the TL;DR on the original post

That is: "it probably requires unrealistic conditions to take full effect"

I apologise for my sensationalist headline and minimalist commentary on my initial posting on reddit, it has resulted in the community wildly overreacting to the change. It probably wont be an issue for most games. I have performed further testing on more realistic death balls and have clarified that everything should be okay.

Anyway, I did want to clarify a couple of things. The tests were not "failed" in any way. While I appreciate that I used a somewhat unrealistic parameters but I really wanted to see if there was any change between the two versions, hence I made a huge ball of closely clumped together zealots.
I verified my results multiple times. Exactly the same micro and setup was used almost every single time. The holes circled in the OP are not real gaps but merely appear to be due to the perspective of the 3d.
Unless 1.4 also has also made changes to the way one can clump a bunch of zealots those gaps do not exist

To clarify my findings: There is a difference between 1.3 and 1.4 in the way that the drop code is handled. In 1.3 it will permit the dropping of units into a tight cluster of units if it cannot find available space within a specific radius. In 1.4 it will delay the drop command until if finds viable space. However in 1.4 if it fails to find available space within a specific period of time the drop command will be cancelled. This is why in my 1.4 test you can see that most of the overlords fail to drop their full contingent of banelings.

Now while this should not be an issue in most games my fear is that cunning players of the future will find mechanisms to exploit this logic and cause baneling drops to fail. I really wanted to bring light to the fact that there is a flaw in the new logic in 1.4 that should be resolved before people find mechanisms to exploit it. I have added some musings to my thread on battle.net (*shudders*) and I hope the devs take note and consider improving the logic.

One example of such exploits that concern me is how players exploit the "hold" position command on workers in micro fights to make melee troops act idiotically. People seem to champion this as "amazing micro" whereas (as a software engineer) I see it as just a flaw in the system that should be fixed (not that I dislike players that do it but I don't like the fact that the exploit exists at all).

Once more I'd like to apologise for creating the video without the proper commentary alongside it to put into context and for my sensationalist title. I will be more careful with any future postings I make.

Thanks for reading this far.

TL;DR; "it probably requires unrealistic conditions to take full effect" (but there is a difference between the two versions and the tests were genuine)

---------

EDIT: WHOA! Check the post at the top of this page that states:

Show nested quote +
has anyone tested if surrounding your stalkers super tightly with forcefields will make it so banelings cannot even hit the prtosos untis when dropped?


I just did a couple of tests... and by all means we really need to test this further, preferably with two people to make the micro good (as its tough to do it all as one person)..... but from what I can gather It's true.

I don't know if it is unrealistic to have so many sentries/FFs but it is at least possible.

+ Show Spoiler +


And you're correct, And I dont really like that "mechanic" either, of hold position. Not that I don't do it. its another tool in the toolbox, and I've even done this with roaches (since bad players will not realize the range limitation will make them autoattack the workers while on hold position, making it a more resilient worker-kill force), however, the main issue is NOT hold position but "Mineral Walk". Thats the reason it works so well. In BW, this didn't exist.

"Mineral Walk", imo, gets the vote for worst mechanic addition ever. Sure, people are using it to get around or avoid being cheesed, but doesn't that say something about the game itself when a mechanic is abused in such ways to simply survive?

I put 2 and 2 together after a while and decided that I can start scouting Protoss bases with mineral walking drones.

T can do the same thing to protoss.

Meanwhile T is impervious to this.

Just one more way in which they damaged the mechanics of the gameplay for some unknown reason, leading to unintended consequences, and these factors affect balance, because it artificially deflates the value of what a protoss might by trying to tech to in secret, as one of many examples of ways it screws with the game.

I don't see how they ever thought mineral walk was a good idea. ITs the reason hellions are getting nerfed, even though mass hellions can still toast queens and a number of roaches damn quickly.

If only roaches got +2 to light...


wtf am i reading?
did you even play bw since you want to justify your whining about hold position and mineral walk by making totally wrong statements....
just for the record: mineral walking exists in bw and was used ever since it was discovered. the only limitation is that you need to scout your opponents minerals first to go into a base since there is actually fog of war. it exists in wc3 too btw.
and hold position is a known micro techninque also used in every blizzard rts and noone has EVER complained about it. maybe because it is just doing what it says and is working as intended.

to the subject of workers on hold: in all blizzard rts workers ALWAYS behave like this. this is not a bug but intended by the designers (though it's sort of a work around to a not easy to solve problem technically). it is to buff workers and give them a fighting chance through attacking all at once or surrounding. and it has never been a problem but lead to exciting micro situation and more options.

and wtf has this to do with the thread at all?
Phant
Profile Joined August 2010
United States737 Posts
September 15 2011 21:13 GMT
#389
I'm perfectly fine with them being able to drop in a clustered army, just show me which overloads are empty and which are loaded =)
Truedot
Profile Joined August 2011
444 Posts
September 15 2011 21:22 GMT
#390
On September 16 2011 05:52 fleeze wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2011 17:19 Truedot wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On September 13 2011 14:12 DustyShelf wrote:
Hello! I am the creator of the original test (tpyo / BelligerentWombat) and the videos that are linked to. I just wanted to add my 0.02 cents.

First off I should really clarify that I 100% agree with the TL;DR on the original post

That is: "it probably requires unrealistic conditions to take full effect"

I apologise for my sensationalist headline and minimalist commentary on my initial posting on reddit, it has resulted in the community wildly overreacting to the change. It probably wont be an issue for most games. I have performed further testing on more realistic death balls and have clarified that everything should be okay.

Anyway, I did want to clarify a couple of things. The tests were not "failed" in any way. While I appreciate that I used a somewhat unrealistic parameters but I really wanted to see if there was any change between the two versions, hence I made a huge ball of closely clumped together zealots.
I verified my results multiple times. Exactly the same micro and setup was used almost every single time. The holes circled in the OP are not real gaps but merely appear to be due to the perspective of the 3d.
Unless 1.4 also has also made changes to the way one can clump a bunch of zealots those gaps do not exist

To clarify my findings: There is a difference between 1.3 and 1.4 in the way that the drop code is handled. In 1.3 it will permit the dropping of units into a tight cluster of units if it cannot find available space within a specific radius. In 1.4 it will delay the drop command until if finds viable space. However in 1.4 if it fails to find available space within a specific period of time the drop command will be cancelled. This is why in my 1.4 test you can see that most of the overlords fail to drop their full contingent of banelings.

Now while this should not be an issue in most games my fear is that cunning players of the future will find mechanisms to exploit this logic and cause baneling drops to fail. I really wanted to bring light to the fact that there is a flaw in the new logic in 1.4 that should be resolved before people find mechanisms to exploit it. I have added some musings to my thread on battle.net (*shudders*) and I hope the devs take note and consider improving the logic.

One example of such exploits that concern me is how players exploit the "hold" position command on workers in micro fights to make melee troops act idiotically. People seem to champion this as "amazing micro" whereas (as a software engineer) I see it as just a flaw in the system that should be fixed (not that I dislike players that do it but I don't like the fact that the exploit exists at all).

Once more I'd like to apologise for creating the video without the proper commentary alongside it to put into context and for my sensationalist title. I will be more careful with any future postings I make.

Thanks for reading this far.

TL;DR; "it probably requires unrealistic conditions to take full effect" (but there is a difference between the two versions and the tests were genuine)

---------

EDIT: WHOA! Check the post at the top of this page that states:

Show nested quote +
has anyone tested if surrounding your stalkers super tightly with forcefields will make it so banelings cannot even hit the prtosos untis when dropped?


I just did a couple of tests... and by all means we really need to test this further, preferably with two people to make the micro good (as its tough to do it all as one person)..... but from what I can gather It's true.

I don't know if it is unrealistic to have so many sentries/FFs but it is at least possible.

+ Show Spoiler +


And you're correct, And I dont really like that "mechanic" either, of hold position. Not that I don't do it. its another tool in the toolbox, and I've even done this with roaches (since bad players will not realize the range limitation will make them autoattack the workers while on hold position, making it a more resilient worker-kill force), however, the main issue is NOT hold position but "Mineral Walk". Thats the reason it works so well. In BW, this didn't exist.

"Mineral Walk", imo, gets the vote for worst mechanic addition ever. Sure, people are using it to get around or avoid being cheesed, but doesn't that say something about the game itself when a mechanic is abused in such ways to simply survive?

I put 2 and 2 together after a while and decided that I can start scouting Protoss bases with mineral walking drones.

T can do the same thing to protoss.

Meanwhile T is impervious to this.

Just one more way in which they damaged the mechanics of the gameplay for some unknown reason, leading to unintended consequences, and these factors affect balance, because it artificially deflates the value of what a protoss might by trying to tech to in secret, as one of many examples of ways it screws with the game.

I don't see how they ever thought mineral walk was a good idea. ITs the reason hellions are getting nerfed, even though mass hellions can still toast queens and a number of roaches damn quickly.

If only roaches got +2 to light...


wtf am i reading?
did you even play bw since you want to justify your whining about hold position and mineral walk by making totally wrong statements....
just for the record: mineral walking exists in bw and was used ever since it was discovered. the only limitation is that you need to scout your opponents minerals first to go into a base since there is actually fog of war. it exists in wc3 too btw.
and hold position is a known micro techninque also used in every blizzard rts and noone has EVER complained about it. maybe because it is just doing what it says and is working as intended.

to the subject of workers on hold: in all blizzard rts workers ALWAYS behave like this. this is not a bug but intended by the designers (though it's sort of a work around to a not easy to solve problem technically). it is to buff workers and give them a fighting chance through attacking all at once or surrounding. and it has never been a problem but lead to exciting micro situation and more options.

and wtf has this to do with the thread at all?



I played bood war for 10 years. scvs would stack, but their movement would still be impeded by non harvesting units. thus, its not the same as in this game.

hold position is only lame in relation to this "trick". did I say hold position was bad all around? Its been in RTSes since around the dune2000 era.

wtf am I reading?
I used to spend my time not caring about people's language in chat. Until I got hit by blizz. Now I spend my time instigating people to verbal abusive levels, so I can ban them in turn. The circle of life.
Prev 1 18 19 20 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
16:00
Warm Up Cup #1
uThermal198
SteadfastSC10
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 477
Harstem 417
uThermal 198
trigger 15
goblin 13
SteadfastSC 10
BRAT_OK 8
MindelVK 7
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 4109
Larva 1294
EffOrt 1248
Stork 443
Mini 414
ZerO 235
BeSt 208
hero 121
Rush 92
Snow 91
[ Show more ]
Hyun 77
Mind 64
Barracks 63
Shinee 52
Sharp 41
Movie 36
Aegong 23
Rock 23
Terrorterran 17
ajuk12(nOOB) 16
scan(afreeca) 11
HiyA 10
Shine 9
zelot 9
IntoTheRainbow 7
Hm[arnc] 4
Dota 2
Gorgc10299
qojqva3096
febbydoto17
League of Legends
singsing2490
Counter-Strike
fl0m731
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King141
amsayoshi60
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor167
Other Games
FrodaN2583
hiko1166
Liquid`VortiX376
Happy345
RotterdaM283
crisheroes190
mouzStarbuck124
ArmadaUGS88
Trikslyr55
QueenE53
ZerO(Twitch)18
elazer1
KnowMe0
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 26
• iHatsuTV 18
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV468
League of Legends
• TFBlade1142
• Jankos407
Other Games
• Shiphtur113
Upcoming Events
OSC
2h 50m
SHIN vs Bunny
Cham vs MaNa
SKillous vs TBD
PAPI vs Jumy
Gerald vs Moja
ArT vs TBD
Replay Cast
7h 50m
The PondCast
17h 50m
RSL Revival
17h 50m
ByuN vs Classic
Clem vs Cham
WardiTV European League
23h 50m
Replay Cast
1d 7h
RSL Revival
1d 17h
herO vs SHIN
Reynor vs Cure
WardiTV European League
1d 23h
FEL
1d 23h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
FEL
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
FEL
3 days
BSL: ProLeague
4 days
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-28
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.