EPTOn October 28 2010 22:17 wishbones wrote:
i hope i die before bw does.
i hope i die before bw does.
:D me too....all good things must come to an end...but not for another 100 years please.
[News] KeSPA announces their official stance - Page 6
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49986 Posts
:D me too....all good things must come to an end...but not for another 100 years please. | ||
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ricerocket
154 Posts
i think i better bail before i get bitten | ||
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QuickStriker
United States3694 Posts
I just hope Proleague, OSL and MSL will continue to run the same way and it doesn't get interrupted at all though I feel that may very much happen.... On October 28 2010 22:25 ricerocket wrote: wow, it's like a zombie movie in here i think i better bail before i get bitten Just wanting to make an extra comment here. ricerocket, please be respectful to other people in TL and stop making destructive criticism to every single post you make to comment others. Seriously... | ||
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leakingpear
United Kingdom302 Posts
On October 28 2010 21:59 snowdrift wrote: You have no idea what you're talking about. KeSPA is a non-profit, an advertising venture, which means they must reinvest any profit into the scene. They don't intend to turn into a profitable business, since they're simply a group of sponsors; when they say they can't make a profit it means that they're running a deficit and thus don't even make a profit that they can reinvest, not that they intend to make a profit in the future. He didn't imply that KeSPA itself would be a profitable business, more that the eSports industry was self sustaining and viewed as a profitable place for investment and even if you ignore that, a non-profit running at a significant deficit for multiple years is still significant in of itself with regards to any long or short term sustainability. The higher charges KeSPA has to pass onto teams and broadcasters the less cost efficient the advertising becomes (the TV stations would more than likely have to increase the price of advertising) and at a certain point it would result in a complete collapse anyway. We don't know what the actual production costs of the proleague are, whether KeSPA only manages the rules and organisational side of it, or also manages the TV production and spectator sport side of things. We don't know whether KeSPA have been managed by a superstar executive with a heart of gold or a brainless nitwit with a penchant for pagentry. As interesting as this statement is, it's still going to be pointless to try and establish accountability for this whole kerfuffle and what each side's motives are going forward because we just don't know enough information. | ||
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ricerocket
154 Posts
Just wanting to make an extra comment here. ricerocket, please be respectful to other people in TL and stop making destructive criticism to every single post you make to comment others. Seriously... Apologies, it's just hard to stay peachy when every rebuttal is a fanatical "you don't know what you are talking about" instead of at least an attempt at thinking logically. | ||
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nimoraca
Serbia84 Posts
On October 28 2010 22:09 Loanshark wrote: I instantly voted in the poll when I saw it but when I took a closer look I have to second this viewpoint. The poll will probably end up derailing the thread. My intention with the poll was not to divide the community because I truly believe that no one here wants SCBW to die. I have been reading these kinds of threads for quite some time now and I just wanted to know what majority of TL-netizens think. The thing that suprised me the most in this thread is the people not caring whether SCBW dies and calling it natural evolution of some king. How can it be natural when you need the creator of the game to kill it. | ||
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
I will be rooting for MBC (or Kespa since i think they ll be supporting MBC by the side anw) to win out this one because i believe it ll be better for e-Sport overall  .. Blizz havnt had a shred of success in promoting e-Sport in the last decades, Kespie<3 on the other hand... ^^ Plus i get to watch Bisu play more now that hes back in form if Kespie wins..Oh lastly for the Blizz boys.. If you honestly thinks that Blizz will still support SC:BW leagues the way they (the leagues) are now.. You should check for brain damage, really T_T | ||
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Ricjames
Czech Republic1047 Posts
I have to laugh hard when Blizzard is saying they have no intention to kill bw and they want to continue supporting both games. How fucking dumb has someone to be to believe this bullshit. Look at it from their view. They are huge company caring pretty much about profit. They have a new game SC2 which is totally under their control and the main goal of this game is to make money. On the other hand they have very old game which they probably love, but this game is not making any considerable profit for them (cost like 15 bucks and hardly bought anywhere in the world nowadays). What the sane company would do is try to slowly replace the old but loved by many people game and try to make it that they have nothing to do with it to not piss off their fans and actually prevent them from buying their new game and that's what they are doing here. Bw players and scene equals less SC2 players and smaller scene - in South Korea. You would be stupid to not think that Blizzard wants to get the old no-profiting game for them out of the table. Also they want to get share of the profits coming from progaming (that actually don't exist according to Kespa). Everything here is just business and they don't really care about fans or e-sports. They do care as long as they see bigger profit in it, that's what companies do..... | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49986 Posts
On October 28 2010 22:36 ffreakk wrote: I would have flamed that m*ron ricerocket to oblivion had i not just read Milkis' blog post just minutes ago :> Now i ll just refrain myself from feeding the troll though.. I will be rooting for MBC (or Kespa since i think they ll be supporting MBC by the side anw) to win out this one because i believe it ll be better for e-Sport overall .. Blizz havnt had a shred of success in promoting e-Sport in the last decades, Kespie<3 on the other hand... ^^ Plus i get to watch Bisu play more now that hes back in form if Kespie wins..Oh lastly for the Blizz boys.. If you honestly thinks that Blizz will still support SC:BW leagues the way they (the leagues) are now.. You should check for brain damage, really T_T actually it would be GOM who runs the leagues...they only need permission from Blizz who would gladly give it to them. I really doubt that GOM would not run a BW league as long as there are people who want to watch them(THEY BETTER GET SOME GOOD KOREAN CASTERS) since they are seen as evil puppets of doom. to everyone please keep in mind that its not blizzard who would run leagues. Edit: I'm not a blizzard fanboy I'm just anti-anti-Blizzard and ant-anti-KeSPA. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5508 Posts
On October 28 2010 22:47 BLinD-RawR wrote: actually it would be GOM who runs the leagues...they only need permission from Blizz who would gladly give it to them. I really doubt that GOM would not run a BW league as long as there are people who want to watch them(THEY BETTER GET SOME GOOD KOREAN CASTERS) since they are seen as evil puppets of doom. to everyone please keep in mind that its not blizzard who would run leagues. Edit: I'm not a blizzard fanboy I'm just anti-anti-Blizzard and ant-anti-KeSPA. GomTV would then have to support all the progaming teams because who in their right mind (talking about Koreans) would want to watch some amateurs play on some obscure internet stream. O_o | ||
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ooni
Australia1498 Posts
On October 28 2010 20:44 Pleiades wrote: The problem with Blizzard filing a lawsuit against KeSPA is more due to the fact that there are so many other parties involved in it rather than it being a NPO. You can still file lawsuits against a Non-Profit-Organization like a For-Profit-Organization if there is enough cause for damages and/or violations of laws/civil contracts. I wonder who or what Blizzard will file a lawsuit in KeSPA. Anyways, if you want to see Korea's IP laws here it is: Korean Copyright IP Laws Copyright is part of IP Law if you don't understand. Have fun! Not sueing KeSPA. Also IP laws are same in any country that follow the international law, it's just worded differently. They are sueing the stations that aired Blizzard products. The problem is not a simple open and shut IP case. Facts: - Blizzard did not give rights to the stations to use their products to profit financially - However Blizzard did not intervene as they were getting free advertisements (also profited well, looking at the SC sales in Korea) - Blizzard even invited proleague players to Blizzcon (Blizzard was aware and allowed the broadcasting stations keep airing) Looking at the facts, The problem is not just IP rights, it's whether Blizzard and the broadcasting stations have implied a contract. Factors to consider: - Has Blizzard allowed the broadcasting companies to use their product? What was their intention? - Has Blizzard shown any intention to stop the product to be used in the future when their product was allegedly misused? - What is the business custom for video game broadcasting? - Has Blizzard encouraged this implied agreement? (e.g. inviting proleague players) This is not a simple case, I hope they go to court... I would love to know how this case will turn out. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49986 Posts
On October 28 2010 22:54 maybenexttime wrote: GomTV would then have to support all the progaming teams because who in their right mind (talking about Koreans) would want to watch some amateurs play on some obscure internet stream. O_o well my hypothetical situation wasn't fully thought out but,the sad and unfortunate truth is that Progamers whould go wherever the money and the viewership is...and maybe Gom might get its own TV station...I don't know. This is only a hypothetical situation and I do understand that you are being sarcastic. | ||
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mprs
Canada2933 Posts
However, can we please stop saying that they will kill e-sports. That is the last thing they want to do. If they do kill BW and grow SC2 the way they have been, e-sports will skyrocket to places BW never dreamed (or will ever achieve). There is an infinitely higher audience for SC2 than BW. Not to mention that Blizzard will get a shit-load of advertising and profits from a stronger e-sport establishment. ON TOP OF ALL THAT, they have been supporting a shitty competitive game (WoW) for 5 years now which is infinitely worse than BW and SC2. They don't want to kill e-sports, and thats in a business point of view. The other idiotic argument is that BW > SC2. Every day I watch tournaments, we see new innovative stuff made by the players. Just saw the Idra game today which was the first time I saw + Show Spoiler + a player making 3 overseers and contaminating the hatcheries of Idra to stop larva injects. This game has been out for a couple of months. There are changes coming every month or 2. There are TWO expansions coming. Even if this was 5 years after release, I would say "give it more time". If you are comparing 10 years of development (not just from the game design perspective, but from players and maps), then you have to give that much time to this game as well. It is only fair that we do so. The game has not been stagnant. Its been developing and I never see the same strategy two weeks later. Of course, it can be true that you prefer BW over SC2 in its current state, and that is perfectly fine. But don't pretend that if SC2 becomes the better game (which it very well could), the e-sports scene would not significantly prosper. It can even do that without being a better game (as is the case right now). Realistically though (and from what I've read), the BW numbers have been going down. Its not like real sports where you can market somewhere and people might like it. The game is very good, but very outdated. It would never be able to escape the borders of Korea (Finals in China don't mean much... its 1 event). SC2, on the other hand, has already captivated a national audience. Anyway, I hope BW and SC2 both flourish and that this drama ends very soon. | ||
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nimoraca
Serbia84 Posts
On October 28 2010 22:47 BLinD-RawR wrote: actually it would be GOM who runs the leagues...they only need permission from Blizz who would gladly give it to them. I really doubt that GOM would not run a BW league as long as there are people who want to watch them(THEY BETTER GET SOME GOOD KOREAN CASTERS) since they are seen as evil puppets of doom. to everyone please keep in mind that its not blizzard who would run leagues. Edit: I'm not a blizzard fanboy I'm just anti-anti-Blizzard and ant-anti-KeSPA. No one cares who will run the leagues. The question is who will pay the salaries of progamers. I'm sure Gretech and Blizz won't. KeSPA surly won't if it's not allowed to organize the leagues. No progamers, no SCBW. It's that simple. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49986 Posts
On October 28 2010 23:02 nimoraca wrote: No one cares who will run the leagues. The question is who will pay the salaries of progamers. I'm sure Gretech and Blizz won't. KeSPA surly won't if it's not allowed to organize the leagues. No progamers, no SCBW. It's that simple. Maybe a new system could be run,maybe KeSPA will end up supporting Gretech. I'm wishing for too much but I want people to understand that its not impossible. | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
On October 28 2010 23:02 nimoraca wrote: No one cares who will run the leagues. The question is who will pay the salaries of progamers. I'm sure Gretech and Blizz won't. KeSPA surly won't if it's not allowed to organize the leagues. No progamers, no SCBW. It's that simple. KeSPA is a separate entity than the sponsors themselves. The sponsors are part of the board, but it's not the KeSPA organization who writes the checks, it's the sponsors directly. KT, Wemade, & SKT still get benefits from having their names plastered on prime-time television. Why in the world can this not continue? | ||
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cocoa_sg
Singapore296 Posts
On October 28 2010 23:02 nimoraca wrote: No one cares who will run the leagues. The question is who will pay the salaries of progamers. I'm sure Gretech and Blizz won't. KeSPA surly won't if it's not allowed to organize the leagues. No progamers, no SCBW. It's that simple. THIS. This is the fear that BW fans have currently, including me. Will Blizzard be even willing to support the ENTIRE existing infrastructure of the BW proscene? Kespa has been doing a good job of it for 10 years, even if it has its anti-fans. We are talking about 10+ progamer teams and their own sponsors, as well as the broadcasters, all under the non-profit entity that is Kespa. By suing the broadcasters, in this case, MBC, Blizzard is doing a lot of damage to their own PR image in Korea. It would not be surprising if there was a huge public backlash because of that. Do we really want the lawsuit to succeed, if that means the collapse of BW? That is why we are so agitated about this whole thing. EDIT: The sponsors will stop sponsoring the teams if broadcasting is cut, because of the lack of advertising revenue. This is in itself a very ugly scenario. | ||
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
On October 28 2010 23:10 BLinD-RawR wrote: Maybe a new system could be run,maybe KeSPA will end up supporting Gretech. I'm wishing for too much but I want people to understand that its not impossible. Im glad you realise you are wishing for too much.. T_T The reason this is happening in the first place is that Kespa cant agree with Blizz's condition of total control.. What could have made you think that they would suddenly support Blizz after Blizz gain that total control (of course, in the unlikely case that they win).. I personally dont see that happening.. Nor do i see GOM being able to (from a financial as well as experience standpoint) hold anything that can come close to ProLeague alone, let alone OSL n MSL.. | ||
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
I just hope the Judge judging it take that into consideration. | ||
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ArbAttack
Canada198 Posts
What else is new? | ||
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