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On November 01 2010 18:52 Rikstah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 18:47 AyJay wrote:On November 01 2010 18:44 Rikstah wrote:On November 01 2010 18:40 AyJay wrote:
I think BW sold most of their copies before KeSPA was even born lol I think you're clearly wrong if you're taking the stance Blizzard hardly benefited from Kespa's activities. Just saying that SC/BW was a hit in Korea way before televised matches and creation of KeSPA Yeah true the game was a hit. I still think though that BW has lived as long as it did solely because of Kespa's efforts. Organising the teams, the leagues, making new maps... I dare say Kespa has put just as many years in for BW as blizzard did. Making the game / keeping the game fresh are different things I know. But damn blizzard should show a bit more appreciation. As it is already stated in fact now that Kespa doesn't make any profit from the pro league, the companies simply wanna sponsor (as a way of advertising). Whether its legal or not, Blizzard appears to be capitalizing on the E sports scene that kespa built.
Blizzard always showed appreciation to E-sports but somehow people are stubborn to see it. Have you guys forgot when Blizzard injected a large amount of money to original GOM invitational during the shitfest KeSPA and other organizations were doing? What about worldwide invitationals and Blizzcon? Have you read the fact that they have been negotiating with these companies since 2007? Have you thought that even if organization KeSPA doesn't make money the organizations behind it (teams, sponsors) do?
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The shitfest, as you put it, happened after blizzard teamed up with gomtv. It was one of the reasons why there was a "shitfest" at all. First three seasons went unhindered. Then blizzard chimed in.
You're also forgetting how shitty the production level of blizzcons have been during all those years.
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On November 01 2010 19:30 maybenexttime wrote:
The shitfest, as you put it, happened after blizzard teamed up with gomtv. It was one of the reasons why there was a "shitfest" at all. First three seasons went unhindered. Then blizzard chimed in.
You're also forgetting how shitty the production level of blizzcons have been during all those years.
Blizzard injected money to GOM because they didn't wanted it to die. Sadly it didn't work. It was when KeSPA basically said to blizzard "BW belongs to us, not you".
You can't blame Blizzard for bad production level for tournaments in Blizzcon, because you need to realize it's a massive convention with THOUSANDS of people in it. Tournaments are just small part of it.
Also Blizzard didn't shut down their BW servers, didn't shutdown iccup even though it allows for pirating and kept BW balance and bugfix patches rolling up until 2009. Don't tell me Blizzard has done nothing for e-sports and this game.
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5003 Posts
On November 02 2010 00:27 AyJay wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 19:30 maybenexttime wrote:
The shitfest, as you put it, happened after blizzard teamed up with gomtv. It was one of the reasons why there was a "shitfest" at all. First three seasons went unhindered. Then blizzard chimed in.
You're also forgetting how shitty the production level of blizzcons have been during all those years. Blizzard injected money to GOM because they didn't wanted it to die. Sadly it didn't work. It was when KeSPA basically said to blizzard "BW belongs to us, not you". You can't blame Blizzard for bad production level for tournaments in Blizzcon, because you need to realize it's a massive convention with THOUSANDS of people in it. Tournaments are just small part of it. Also Blizzard didn't shut down their BW servers, didn't shutdown iccup even though it allows for pirating and kept BW balance and bugfix patches rolling up until 2009. Don't tell me Blizzard has done nothing for e-sports and this game.
Blizzard injected money to GOM? How do you know this? All you know is "Blizzard gave GOM rights for 1 won", nothing past that.
It didn't work not because "KeSPA basically said to blizzard "BW belongs to us, not you", but because 1) GOM TV had terrible production in all their games. You can remember it all you want with Nostalgia but GOM leagues in Korea were nothing short of a joke in production quality. Teams started pulling from GOM because they thought it was worthless and wanted their players to concentrate on the leagues that matter (Proleague, OSL, MSL). Are you surprised SKT was the one who engineered this exodus, considering how hypercompetitive SKT is? Who prevented their players from participating in Individual Starleagues at times, who prevents their players from doing interviews during the season, who cares about winning Proleague? The entire situation had nothing to do with "IP rights" and it had all to do with "GOM TV Sucks"
Yes, you can't blame Blizzard for not having a decent SC: BW tournament because it has "Thousands" of people in it? Do you realize that the Progame scenes organize much bigger events than that? What stops Blizzard from hiring OGN/MBC to help them set up tournaments? Or... even GOM? Absolutely nothing.
Yes, because Blizzard keeps their BW servers online it means they still care? No, they leave it online because it literally takes no effort on them considering they stopped patching and every other game you will play on battle.net is filled with god damn hackers. Are you seriously interpreting "Well they let iccup stay online" as a sign that Blizzard cares? That's 100% a sign that they *don't* care enough to put in any effort for many reasons.
Please, SHUT UP. I can absolutely guarantee a HUGE majority of you don't know anything close to the full story behind this so stop flaunting your ignorant remarks like it means something, unless you really enjoy flinging mud like each other on the literally nothing you all know (not just you, but this last paragraph is aimed at anyone who still posts bullshit in this thread)
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@Milkis Got to agree with people's preconceived thoughts or delusion that they know everything about the deal and in outs of Blizzard and Kespa hence keeping on posting although like you said this thread mainly are for lurkers to be hang out here I guess and start arguing between each other .
In the end what else can we do when we receive news like this other than discuss it to the death ?Whole thing is open to the public though and thats where it get ugly .I am definitely going to stay out of it from posting in this thread because despite the heated argument posted by some users it's going no where and I don't feel like even putting my time in answering their "QUESTIONS" and provide SOURCE to my statements .Finally what are the use of arguing between ourselves as if blizzard employee is going to open up this thread and see's oh the so community cares about broodwar or even bother to take into account any of the arguments here . That's nonsense , will never ever happen unless cows or pigs start flying out there in my window .
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Btw Blizzard don't even host the BW servers, that's why they are still up. When you log on Euro it says 'hosted by Telus'. So they don't even do that. And they have not patched for ages when it really needs it because of hacks. From what i heard it was just one guy doing the patches anyway for years.
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On November 02 2010 00:40 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 00:27 AyJay wrote:On November 01 2010 19:30 maybenexttime wrote:
The shitfest, as you put it, happened after blizzard teamed up with gomtv. It was one of the reasons why there was a "shitfest" at all. First three seasons went unhindered. Then blizzard chimed in.
You're also forgetting how shitty the production level of blizzcons have been during all those years. Blizzard injected money to GOM because they didn't wanted it to die. Sadly it didn't work. It was when KeSPA basically said to blizzard "BW belongs to us, not you". You can't blame Blizzard for bad production level for tournaments in Blizzcon, because you need to realize it's a massive convention with THOUSANDS of people in it. Tournaments are just small part of it. Also Blizzard didn't shut down their BW servers, didn't shutdown iccup even though it allows for pirating and kept BW balance and bugfix patches rolling up until 2009. Don't tell me Blizzard has done nothing for e-sports and this game. Blizzard injected money to GOM? How do you know this? All you know is "Blizzard gave GOM rights for 1 won", nothing past that.
Yes they did. Quoting my previous post somewhere in previous threads.
1. KeSPA, Korea e-Sports regulator got in a fight with Blizzard over control of the future StarCraft II scene in South Korea.
2. Korean authorities sent Blizzard to deal with KeSPA or "die", basically.
3. Blizzard tried to negotiate with OGN and MBC, the two broadcasters of StarCraft in Korea, - negotiations went nowhere.
4. Blizzard replied by sponsoring GOM, a popular independent StarCraft broadcaster.
5. Over the course of three years GOM was becoming more and more popular, due it it's greater amounts of matches per broadcast, English commentary (by Tasteless), bigger prize pool and an overall more relaxing atmosphere for players.
6. Blizzard injected a considerable sum of cash into GOM, basically doubling it's prize pool and an overall budget, with a general idea of GOM becoming a main broadcaster of StarCraft and more importantly StarCraft II in Korea, whilst GOM was already televising StarCraft, WarCraft III and WoW tournaments.
7. KeSPA replied by denying certain teams they have influence over to participate in GOM events.
It's funny because I have to repeat these posts everytime to defend what I am saying.
edit: source is gosugamers which apparently sources teamliquid. Can't seem to find source in TL except for this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=95656
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On November 02 2010 02:15 AyJay wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 00:40 Milkis wrote:On November 02 2010 00:27 AyJay wrote:On November 01 2010 19:30 maybenexttime wrote:
The shitfest, as you put it, happened after blizzard teamed up with gomtv. It was one of the reasons why there was a "shitfest" at all. First three seasons went unhindered. Then blizzard chimed in.
You're also forgetting how shitty the production level of blizzcons have been during all those years. Blizzard injected money to GOM because they didn't wanted it to die. Sadly it didn't work. It was when KeSPA basically said to blizzard "BW belongs to us, not you". You can't blame Blizzard for bad production level for tournaments in Blizzcon, because you need to realize it's a massive convention with THOUSANDS of people in it. Tournaments are just small part of it. Also Blizzard didn't shut down their BW servers, didn't shutdown iccup even though it allows for pirating and kept BW balance and bugfix patches rolling up until 2009. Don't tell me Blizzard has done nothing for e-sports and this game. Blizzard injected money to GOM? How do you know this? All you know is "Blizzard gave GOM rights for 1 won", nothing past that. Yes they did. Quoting my previous post somewhere in previous threads. Show nested quote +1. KeSPA, Korea e-Sports regulator got in a fight with Blizzard over control of the future StarCraft II scene in South Korea.
2. Korean authorities sent Blizzard to deal with KeSPA or "die", basically.
3. Blizzard tried to negotiate with OGN and MBC, the two broadcasters of StarCraft in Korea, - negotiations went nowhere.
4. Blizzard replied by sponsoring GOM, a popular independent StarCraft broadcaster.
5. Over the course of three years GOM was becoming more and more popular, due it it's greater amounts of matches per broadcast, English commentary (by Tasteless), bigger prize pool and an overall more relaxing atmosphere for players.
6. Blizzard injected a considerable sum of cash into GOM, basically doubling it's prize pool and an overall budget, with a general idea of GOM becoming a main broadcaster of StarCraft and more importantly StarCraft II in Korea, whilst GOM was already televising StarCraft, WarCraft III and WoW tournaments.
7. KeSPA replied by denying certain teams they have influence over to participate in GOM events. It's funny because I have to repeat these posts everytime to defend what I am saying. edit: source is gosugamers which apparently sources teamliquid. Can't seem to find source in TL except for this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=95656
lol AyJay, you've already been corrected about the so called 'facts' you're spewing by quite a few people (myself included). You already tried to link to 3rd hand 'sources' who take TL translations and very liberally try to sum them up, and are now actually going to bother to argue with one of said translators? you're either very dense or just trolling at this point.
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On November 02 2010 03:06 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 02:15 AyJay wrote:On November 02 2010 00:40 Milkis wrote:On November 02 2010 00:27 AyJay wrote:On November 01 2010 19:30 maybenexttime wrote:
The shitfest, as you put it, happened after blizzard teamed up with gomtv. It was one of the reasons why there was a "shitfest" at all. First three seasons went unhindered. Then blizzard chimed in.
You're also forgetting how shitty the production level of blizzcons have been during all those years. Blizzard injected money to GOM because they didn't wanted it to die. Sadly it didn't work. It was when KeSPA basically said to blizzard "BW belongs to us, not you". You can't blame Blizzard for bad production level for tournaments in Blizzcon, because you need to realize it's a massive convention with THOUSANDS of people in it. Tournaments are just small part of it. Also Blizzard didn't shut down their BW servers, didn't shutdown iccup even though it allows for pirating and kept BW balance and bugfix patches rolling up until 2009. Don't tell me Blizzard has done nothing for e-sports and this game. Blizzard injected money to GOM? How do you know this? All you know is "Blizzard gave GOM rights for 1 won", nothing past that. Yes they did. Quoting my previous post somewhere in previous threads. 1. KeSPA, Korea e-Sports regulator got in a fight with Blizzard over control of the future StarCraft II scene in South Korea.
2. Korean authorities sent Blizzard to deal with KeSPA or "die", basically.
3. Blizzard tried to negotiate with OGN and MBC, the two broadcasters of StarCraft in Korea, - negotiations went nowhere.
4. Blizzard replied by sponsoring GOM, a popular independent StarCraft broadcaster.
5. Over the course of three years GOM was becoming more and more popular, due it it's greater amounts of matches per broadcast, English commentary (by Tasteless), bigger prize pool and an overall more relaxing atmosphere for players.
6. Blizzard injected a considerable sum of cash into GOM, basically doubling it's prize pool and an overall budget, with a general idea of GOM becoming a main broadcaster of StarCraft and more importantly StarCraft II in Korea, whilst GOM was already televising StarCraft, WarCraft III and WoW tournaments.
7. KeSPA replied by denying certain teams they have influence over to participate in GOM events. It's funny because I have to repeat these posts everytime to defend what I am saying. edit: source is gosugamers which apparently sources teamliquid. Can't seem to find source in TL except for this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=95656 lol AyJay, you've already been corrected about the so called 'facts' you're spewing by quite a few people (myself included). You already tried to link to 3rd hand 'sources' who take TL translations and very liberally try to sum them up, and are now actually going to bother to argue with one of said translators? you're either very dense or just trolling at this point.
Hmm I didn't knew these sources are incorrect, didn't checked responses. I say what I know based on sources if they are wrong than yeah, feel free to correct them. I base my opinions on sources.
Oh and I know that Milkis is a translator and I respect that, but it doesn't mean he's automatically right.
But I think your right - I've been arguing too much.
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5003 Posts
On November 02 2010 02:15 AyJay wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 00:40 Milkis wrote:On November 02 2010 00:27 AyJay wrote:On November 01 2010 19:30 maybenexttime wrote:
The shitfest, as you put it, happened after blizzard teamed up with gomtv. It was one of the reasons why there was a "shitfest" at all. First three seasons went unhindered. Then blizzard chimed in.
You're also forgetting how shitty the production level of blizzcons have been during all those years. Blizzard injected money to GOM because they didn't wanted it to die. Sadly it didn't work. It was when KeSPA basically said to blizzard "BW belongs to us, not you". You can't blame Blizzard for bad production level for tournaments in Blizzcon, because you need to realize it's a massive convention with THOUSANDS of people in it. Tournaments are just small part of it. Also Blizzard didn't shut down their BW servers, didn't shutdown iccup even though it allows for pirating and kept BW balance and bugfix patches rolling up until 2009. Don't tell me Blizzard has done nothing for e-sports and this game. Blizzard injected money to GOM? How do you know this? All you know is "Blizzard gave GOM rights for 1 won", nothing past that. Yes they did. Quoting my previous post somewhere in previous threads. Show nested quote +1. KeSPA, Korea e-Sports regulator got in a fight with Blizzard over control of the future StarCraft II scene in South Korea.
2. Korean authorities sent Blizzard to deal with KeSPA or "die", basically.
3. Blizzard tried to negotiate with OGN and MBC, the two broadcasters of StarCraft in Korea, - negotiations went nowhere.
4. Blizzard replied by sponsoring GOM, a popular independent StarCraft broadcaster.
5. Over the course of three years GOM was becoming more and more popular, due it it's greater amounts of matches per broadcast, English commentary (by Tasteless), bigger prize pool and an overall more relaxing atmosphere for players.
6. Blizzard injected a considerable sum of cash into GOM, basically doubling it's prize pool and an overall budget, with a general idea of GOM becoming a main broadcaster of StarCraft and more importantly StarCraft II in Korea, whilst GOM was already televising StarCraft, WarCraft III and WoW tournaments.
7. KeSPA replied by denying certain teams they have influence over to participate in GOM events. It's funny because I have to repeat these posts everytime to defend what I am saying. edit: source is gosugamers which apparently sources teamliquid. Can't seem to find source in TL except for this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=95656
So you're gonna use a bullshit post that is obviously biased that you can't even find the source for to try and say Blizzard injected money into it? Especially a post that claims that GOM was getting more popular.... lol
50 million won is chump change, the prize pool of that is tiny dude -_-;;;;; that's not "pumping in money". If 50 million won "doubled" GOM's prize pool, ans OSL/MSL has 40 million won just for the winner (20 million for the runner up), how does your story add up -_-
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Man, you shit all over that kid.
Its nice seeing people who really have no clue put in there place though, hah.
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People can argue the legality of whether blizzard has a right to do what they're doing. But to argue that Blizzard even gave half a shit about BW esports as Kespa did is a total joke.
In fact, they didn't care at all, about the usage or anything, they didn't care when 60,000 people showed up to an OSL final...
They only cared when Starcraft 2 was announced. Its just fishy, I'm not legal professional so I dont know how the court case is going to pan out when they (eventually) get sued. But the intentions are just so obviously dodgy.
And people gotta stop arguing that theres some kind secret stream of huge profits. It seems pretty obvious to me that BW on TV doesn't make THAT much money. The companies that sponsor teams just get good publicity from it.
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EPT
