EPTI mean look at their current SC2 business model. It's free for all prize hunting at best. The dark ages of eSports.
[News] KeSPA announces their official stance - Page 7
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
I mean look at their current SC2 business model. It's free for all prize hunting at best. The dark ages of eSports. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50627 Posts
On October 28 2010 23:48 ShadeR wrote: I highly doubt Blizzard would be willing to support the proBW eSports model. I mean look at their current SC2 business model. It's free for all prize hunting at best. The dark ages of eSports. It will change...eventually. I'm an optimist. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
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leakingpear
United Kingdom302 Posts
Also if it was considered to be 'in the public interest' then that would discount a huge amount of international copyright and IP law completely unrelated to the games industry and could result in WTO sanctions because of its specificity to one game or series of games in particular, none of which the Korean government is likely to risk over a completely civil case that doesn't really concern them in any manner. | ||
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Ryo
8787 Posts
On October 29 2010 01:07 leakingpear wrote: Why do people assume KeSPA is a government entity, it's not, it's privately run by a series of conglomerates, the progaming license system is literally just to play in KeSPA events and the only reason they'd be favourably viewed by the ministry of culture is because they're Korean. Infact most governing bodies of sports aren't public entities at all, the FA in the UK, the FIA for F1, they're all non-democratic entities whose power comes from the infrastructure and history they've established, as recently as 2008/2009, the FIA was on the verge of breaking up due to the Max Mosely and Briattore scandals and that's been around for 40+ years. Also if it was considered to be 'in the public interest' then that would discount a huge amount of international copyright and IP law completely unrelated to the games industry and could result in WTO sanctions because of its specificity to one game or series of games in particular, none of which the Korean government is likely to risk over a completely civil case that doesn't really concern them in any manner. Sigh. Did you even look into the full history of Kespa and the statements/recent conferences the Ministry of Culture held regarding e-sports in Korea before making such claims? | ||
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gyth
657 Posts
If my job is a computer programmer, I am FORCED to learn a new programing language roughly once every two years at the minimum. Why the hell do they make those new languages that's easier to build programs with anyway, right? BW and SC2 (and almost all games) were written in the same language, C++, which has been around since 1983. I hope SC2 does well. But if BW can't survive the "support" of blizzard, then SC2 will ultimately be bound to the same fate. | ||
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smileyyy
Germany1816 Posts
Oh well either Kespa pulls back or the lawsuit will clear out all things. I'm kinda really fed up with this drama and am awaiting the ruling now =) I personally believe we wont see much Sc1 after this PL but this just my personal guess. | ||
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leakingpear
United Kingdom302 Posts
On October 29 2010 01:13 Ryo wrote: Sigh. Did you even look into the full history of Kespa and the statements/recent conferences the Ministry of Culture held regarding e-sports in Korea before making such claims? Approved by the Ministry of Culture does not equate to being a government entity, they're approved because they make safe events that contribute to the culture of the country, the FA, FIFA, FIA, UEFA are all approved by their various countries in which they reside. KeSPA has cultural value but it's not an arm of the korean government. It's also worth noting that in the MoC report to which you so helpfully reference with the smugness of a gnome among pygmies, doesn't really refer to KeSPA at all and is about creating greater participation in general, notably in amateur leagues. This approach would typically be an indicator of them wanting a more open system without licenses so it's less arbitrary and inaccessible. As for the MoC's involvement in the negotiations, there's been one very contentious blog post full of conjecture, where it sounded more like Blizzard crying to KeSPA's uncle and then being told to sort it out yourself. And all this is totally ignoring the giant elephant in the room of rampant corruption in the Korean political system, especially in the area of games where new regulations have made it so even freeware games are required to pay fees and be approved, a system that doesn't operate in any other economy in the world that i'm aware of. | ||
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Vedic
United States582 Posts
Just look at ESL, ESWC, WCG, MLG, etc.. THEY are the companies operating at a loss (as so many have already fallen) and, with that kind of money, could probably work miracles. This pity party for KeSPA is sickening. | ||
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TeMiL
Peru545 Posts
why they dont have a official rts for them? | ||
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Ryo
8787 Posts
On October 29 2010 02:34 leakingpear wrote: Approved by the Ministry of Culture does not equate to being a government entity, they're approved because they make safe events that contribute to the culture of the country, the FA, FIFA, FIA, UEFA are all approved by their various countries in which they reside. KeSPA has cultural value but it's not an arm of the korean government. It's also worth noting that in the MoC report to which you so helpfully reference with the smugness of a gnome among pygmies, doesn't really refer to KeSPA at all and is about creating greater participation in general, notably in amateur leagues. This approach would typically be an indicator of them wanting a more open system without licenses so it's less arbitrary and inaccessible. As for the MoC's involvement in the negotiations, there's been one very contentious blog post full of conjecture, where it sounded more like Blizzard crying to KeSPA's uncle and then being told to sort it out yourself. And all this is totally ignoring the giant elephant in the room of rampant corruption in the Korean political system, especially in the area of games where new regulations have made it so even freeware games are required to pay fees and be approved, a system that doesn't operate in any other economy in the world that i'm aware of. Why do you feel the need to insult someone like this? | ||
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leakingpear
United Kingdom302 Posts
On October 29 2010 03:33 Ryo wrote: Why do you feel the need to insult someone like this? I didn't insult anyone, I pointed out that you were being inordinately smug despite being wrong with the "Sigh." and the overall condescending wording. I don't think you can somehow win the moral high ground by acting like a psychiatrist bro, unless you were implying I was being insensitive to pygmies, then I humbly apologise to all the pygmy tribes all over the world. You're welcome to refute all my counter-points whenever you like but until then stop with the personal crap. | ||
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Borknagarush
176 Posts
On October 29 2010 03:23 Vedic wrote: KeSPA is pulling in $350,000/year from just OGN/MBC, and are pulling in big-name sponsors. Just look at ESL, ESWC, WCG, MLG, etc.. THEY are the companies operating at a loss (as so many have already fallen) and, with that kind of money, could probably work miracles. This pity party for KeSPA is sickening. Dude you should totally look for TV channel in France for broadcasting computer games. They will pay you good money for sure... Oh wait it only works in Korea... I have even better idea: ESL, ESWC, WCG, MLG should allways take place in Korea. | ||
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pecore
Germany62 Posts
On October 29 2010 04:32 Borknagarush wrote: Dude you should totally look for TV channel in France for broadcasting computer games. They will pay you good money for sure... Oh wait it only works in Korea... I have even better idea: ESL, ESWC, WCG, MLG should allways take place in Korea. I think he only meant that it is a very big budget compared to what MLG/ESL etc. have. | ||
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Borknagarush
176 Posts
On October 29 2010 04:49 pecore wrote: I think he only meant that it is a very big budget compared to what MLG/ESL etc. have. Blizzard have huge budget, but why dont they throw millions at NA or Europe like they do in Korea? Blizzcon dosn't count coz its annual event with not so much cash prize. UEFA also could organise tournaments and leagues better than KeSPA. | ||
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Ryo
8787 Posts
On October 29 2010 04:29 leakingpear wrote: I didn't insult anyone, I pointed out that you were being inordinately smug despite being wrong with the "Sigh." and the overall condescending wording. I don't think you can somehow win the moral high ground by acting like a psychiatrist bro, unless you were implying I was being insensitive to pygmies, then I humbly apologise to all the pygmy tribes all over the world. You're welcome to refute all my counter-points whenever you like but until then stop with the personal crap. What moral high ground or psychiatrist or insensitive to pygmies or personal crap? I don't understand why you are saying these things but from where I come from, it is not nice. That is all. | ||
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Fuu
198 Posts
And no, sc2 is not. It's so hugely fucking easier that it hurts. I play for two weeks, i don't even know all the units in the race i play with, and i'm already mid diamond with like 65% win ratio ; despite not knowing the game at all when i started. When i see newbs arguing in the sc2 forum that there's still very high skill ceiling, they fail to realize that quickly the skill gap becomes very small between top players, which leads to randomness of the outcome, which is terrible for esport. So long live to Broodwar, cause that's the only rts game which is good enough to carry esport, at least for now. Blizzard realizes this much better than its new fans. | ||
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palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
On October 29 2010 02:34 leakingpear wrote: Approved by the Ministry of Culture does not equate to being a government entity, they're approved because they make safe events that contribute to the culture of the country, the FA, FIFA, FIA, UEFA are all approved by their various countries in which they reside. KeSPA has cultural value but it's not an arm of the korean government. It's also worth noting that in the MoC report to which you so helpfully reference with the smugness of a gnome among pygmies, doesn't really refer to KeSPA at all and is about creating greater participation in general, notably in amateur leagues. This approach would typically be an indicator of them wanting a more open system without licenses so it's less arbitrary and inaccessible. As for the MoC's involvement in the negotiations, there's been one very contentious blog post full of conjecture, where it sounded more like Blizzard crying to KeSPA's uncle and then being told to sort it out yourself. And all this is totally ignoring the giant elephant in the room of rampant corruption in the Korean political system, especially in the area of games where new regulations have made it so even freeware games are required to pay fees and be approved, a system that doesn't operate in any other economy in the world that i'm aware of. Well first, i think you dont know how works the political system , I am very close to the vicepresident of my country and I am going to tell you: even though Kespa is not an arm of the government, all the actions that has been made and all the statements in the past and now from the McO can be seen as a big support to Kespa, I can assure you this 100%, if Korea has a corrupted political system or not is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion. A system without licenses is less arbitrary and inaccessible? how does the licenses forbid the best players to turn out in professional gamers? (please explain me), I am not saying the model is perfect but I dont think it results in an arbitrary and inaccessible system. | ||
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leakingpear
United Kingdom302 Posts
On October 29 2010 06:41 palexhur wrote: Well first, i think you dont know how works the political system , I am very close to the vicepresident of my country and I am going to tell you: even though Kespa is not an arm of the government, all the actions that has been made and all the statements in the past and now from the McO can be seen as a big support to Kespa, I can assure you this 100%, if Korea has a corrupted political system or not is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion. A system without licenses is less arbitrary and inaccessible? how does the licenses forbid the best players to turn out in professional gamers? (please explain me), I am not saying the model is perfect but I dont think it results in an arbitrary and inaccessible system. The licensing system revolved around either being pre-selected by teams and being given a special pass, which was arbitrary and down to being able to show off to certain people, the other route was through courage, a tournament that only happened once a month and only lets in either 1 or 2 people each month (which is largely considered a lottery of being cheesed in 128 person tournaments, for reference see Ret and Nony's courage videos). Plus even if you win courage you're not guaranteed to be picked up by a team at all, you just have to hope so at the draft. Without a license a player can't even join a team or take place in individual events, regardless of skill level. So yeah, it is arbitrary and inaccessible, it's not totally inaccessible otherwise no one be playing at all, but it's not a simple and easy process for the best players to come through. As for the anecdotal evidence about the vice president of the ministry of culture in Colombia, that's just too ridiculous to be taken seriously at all. Even if it were true, which I find doubtful at best, the fact that you're using such vague and inspecific language, not to mention that there really haven't been any MoC statements that have been in direct support of KeSPA in recent memory, leads me to believe you're trying to make something up that no one can actually check to see if it's correct or not. As for the relevance of corruption and lobbying, it's relevant in that it's more likely to decide any government interference than anything that happens in public due to the lack of impetus for the government to be involved on its own volition. I do actually check these things before I post them, I know it's weird to do that on here since you're meant to just make shit up and hope it sticks so I apologise for being thorough. | ||
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
Is it just me or are you being sore about Ret or Nony not making the draft, believing that their skills would be sufficient? If not, then what alternatives do you have outside of the current drafting/licensing system? Allowing free entries to tournaments? Anyone can join proteams? 1/ If you are hoping to get people like Ret or Nony playing on televised games, its impossible since if the gameplay level of these leagues are so low, they wont attract viewers.. 2/ If you arent hoping to see them on TV, then whats there to make a fuss about? Failing Courage can also be seen as failing to qualify for individual leagues (just treat it as another qualifier and there you have it).. Whether they get cheesed out or skillstomped out, fact is that they failed to qualify.. 3/ Without a license a player can't even join a team or take place in individual events, regardless of skill level. Players without a license are those that fail at both qualifying the Courage and impressing the teams. Which means that chances are their skill level is insufficient. Now you can say "i failed to qualify everytime and my performance was never impressive but my actual skill is Bonjwa", but you realise how ridiculous this sounds.As to those who passed couraged but dont get drafted.. I dont see anything wrong with it.. If teams dont see potential in players, they dont wish to pay for them.. It is normal, whether it be in SC:BW or anywhere else.. Analogy: just because PlayerA is the top-scorer for some lowbie leagues doesnt mean that he is entitled to be drafted by Man.Utd.. If the team thinks that hes just not good enough, they dont draft him.. Same story here.. Passing Courage means that you have a chance, it isnt an entitlement.. After all the way i see it Courage is a place to showcase your skills and impress the proteams.. Teams are given a few licenses every year to contract promising players that they find despite them not passing Courage, so even if ur favourite players get cheesed out of the "lottery" if he/she is impressive, they will get contracted.. Fact is that they were not. | ||
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