EPT"Day[9] Learns DotA" with Purge - Page 2
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Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
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Byyk
457 Posts
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PoulsenB
Poland7710 Posts
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
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Merany
France890 Posts
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Silan
Denmark198 Posts
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schmitty9800
United States390 Posts
On December 22 2016 06:17 Silan wrote: Anyone questioning him or his thoughts should really listen to the embedded video on page 1, he explains exactly why i love Dota and why this make sense to him in particular. Agreed, I really question that person saying that it's an opportunistic move...if someone really wanted to jump on a most popular game for streaming numbers I'd think Overwatch or League would be a better move. | ||
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Murlox
France1699 Posts
I don't believe a move has to be the best one (or even a good one) to qualify as opportunistic. According to freedictionnary.com : Opportunistic : Taking immediate advantage, often unethically, of any circumstance of possible benefit. Possible benefit -> check any circumstances -> sort of check often unethically -> that's the big one, let's keep it for later immediate advantage -> not checked Personnally, I don't think the move is ethical. I don't like it. To me, dota is a game you grew with, you learned and loved 10 years ago. Then you have a legitimacy to talk about it. You don't just show up after patch 7.00 and end up with "hey, let me lecture you about the intricacies of this game" - remember when Totalbiscuit decided to jump in the SC wagon and cast SC2? I like the guy, but that... is not enough. It was terrible, imo. Because that's what I feel is going to happen when I read about Day9 coming to Dota2. I mean, he is known for his casting, analysis, humour... I cannot see him refrain his self and stay a humble pupil very long. Basically what I'm seeing is a move toward a Dota2 casting/personality seat - the fact that his name was mentioned for Boston Major hosting probably helps that sentiment - and that feels wrong to me. It's like breakycpk (most famous HoN casters for many years), he's now getting closer to dota2, casting matches, making videos about his thoughts on ppd recent w/e and so on. It just feels off to me, forced, awkward, I don't know. At least the guy was pioneering HoN casting, remained a staple figure for many years. Day9 doesn't have any experience, nor demonstrated any interest in the moba gender... ever? In the end, a man has to eat and who am I to judge? Well I'm me, and I don't like those moves, they seem opportunistic to me. Despite them not being immediate, so I guess ~75% opportunistic -_- That said, I could be totally wrong on the caster/personality thing (for Day9 anyway, I think Breaky's intentions are quite clear), in which case my comment doesn't stand. A man can play/stream w/e the hell he wants, I see no problem with that! | ||
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Chewbacca.
United States3634 Posts
This show is also about him being lectured on how to play, not about him lecturing.. | ||
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ASoo
2864 Posts
On January 06 2017 08:53 Chewbacca. wrote: I fail to see how him not growing up playing Dota, and now wanting to become involved, can possibly be considered unethical. If he tries to jump in and start lecturing people on the finer points of Dota while still being a 2k player, that is silly, but not unethical. This show is also about him being lectured on how to play, not about him lecturing.. something something gatekeeping something HOW DARE THESE PLEBS ENJOY SOMETHING THAT I ALSO ENJOY WITHOUT HAVING INVESTED AS MUCH TIME AND LOVE INTO IT AS I HAVE? | ||
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Odawg27
United States191 Posts
On January 06 2017 07:22 Murlox wrote: Sure, what is your question? I don't believe a move has to be the best one (or even a good one) to qualify as opportunistic. According to freedictionnary.com : Opportunistic : Taking immediate advantage, often unethically, of any circumstance of possible benefit. Possible benefit -> check any circumstances -> sort of check often unethically -> that's the big one, let's keep it for later immediate advantage -> not checked Personnally, I don't think the move is ethical. I don't like it. To me, dota is a game you grew with, you learned and loved 10 years ago. Then you have a legitimacy to talk about it. You don't just show up after patch 7.00 and end up with "hey, let me lecture you about the intricacies of this game" - remember when Totalbiscuit decided to jump in the SC wagon and cast SC2? I like the guy, but that... is not enough. It was terrible, imo. Because that's what I feel is going to happen when I read about Day9 coming to Dota2. I mean, he is known for his casting, analysis, humour... I cannot see him refrain his self and stay a humble pupil very long. Basically what I'm seeing is a move toward a Dota2 casting/personality seat - the fact that his name was mentioned for Boston Major hosting probably helps that sentiment - and that feels wrong to me. It's like breakycpk (most famous HoN casters for many years), he's now getting closer to dota2, casting matches, making videos about his thoughts on ppd recent w/e and so on. It just feels off to me, forced, awkward, I don't know. At least the guy was pioneering HoN casting, remained a staple figure for many years. Day9 doesn't have any experience, nor demonstrated any interest in the moba gender... ever? In the end, a man has to eat and who am I to judge? Well I'm me, and I don't like those moves, they seem opportunistic to me. Despite them not being immediate, so I guess ~75% opportunistic -_- That said, I could be totally wrong on the caster/personality thing (for Day9 anyway, I think Breaky's intentions are quite clear), in which case my comment doesn't stand. A man can play/stream w/e the hell he wants, I see no problem with that! I don't know if I understand the issue. I think you're trying to say it would be unfair and wrong if Day[9] without properly demonstrating his ability or understanding of the game was brought to the front of the line for analysts or personalities of Dota 2, just because he's Day[9] and showing up/interest. I'll agree with you on that point (if that is your point). But you seem to extend that into a very high bar that only people who have been with the game since it came out can do this. That's quite a limiting factor and is in my opinion a wrong idea to hold. Without the outside influence of team managers who started with other games or players who brought their unique experience to the table, Dota 2 would not evolve at nearly the pace it does. N0tail was pretty well known in HoN before coming to Dota if memory serves. Do his achievements or impact on the game as well as the other players coming from other games not count or should be seen as not "true" Dota. Here's the thing, this isn't "unethical" at all. Day[9] has shown, while he's a very energetic and rambunctious personality, he's also very professional when the situation calls for it from his days of casting SC2. The moral part of it really doesn't seem to come into effect here. He's not calling for teams to replace their coach or players with him. He's not whining about not being a caster or personality or analyst at any events. He's not holding anything over events or teams or sponsors in some sort of blackmail attempt to get himself further into Dota 2. Is he starting a new series with a popular moba, possibly in an attempt to get more viewers and variety on his streams? It seems to be. Is there anything at all wrong with that? No. Just because a shop decides to start selling a popular item it hasn't before, doesn't make it unethical or wrong. You're more than welcome to hold to your opinion that only the originators can truly be Dota 2 players/analysts/fans/hosts/monetary streamers. as I stated above, I think that's incorrect. Day[9] has been playing the game for months before this announcement, learning the ropes before patch 7.00. He also says he enjoys the game and it seems like he wishes to dive into it and really learn it from the ground up and Purge is giving him this chance. Sure, if Day[9] comes off as all-knowing and condescending during the streams that's different. But even if you don't like his Hearthstone (comic routine as you called it in an earlier post), I don't think you can really comment on him coming in and lecturing about the intricacies of the game. He's stated this is a learning experience for him and is going to try and sponge up the knowledge, have fun and entertain his viewers. I can't see a single thing wrong with that or see any inkling he's going to be a know-it-all to any Dota 2 veterans. There's not even anything wrong or unethical about that. I think it will be a turn-off to most of his viewers who come to watch him have fun and be nice. I really think your issue is this, You're concerned because of his name recognition he'll knock other caster/personalities out of spots they've earned when he hasn't. But that hasn't happened yet. Not only that, if Day[9] does show an aptitude for the game, picking up the ropes and learning the intricacies while putting in tons of effort to learn, why shouldn't he be offered a spot if he's earned it too. If this happens (I tend to think it probably will happen) and he chooses to put out well-informed, interesting and helpful dailies on Dota 2, while casting and analyzing, that will be a good thing for Dota. I don't see how it couldn't. | ||
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
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acie
United States247 Posts
just because you say "who am i to judge?" doesn't excuse the fact that you are actually being a judgmental cunt | ||
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Gimpb
293 Posts
Have typically enjoyed his content well after I stopped enjoying the game he was playing The thing that's made him great at what he does is he's a brilliant entertainer, not his analytical prowess. This is true for all sports personalities, they are valued because they are good entertainers. That's not so say he doesn't know his stuff, he often does, and he also tends to know when he doesn't as well. Some personalities do use technical understanding as a tool to help them do their thing. That said, the real technical experts in any mature sports scene probably spend their time buried in modelinand statistical calculations few people have the knowledge to understand and seeking inside information that is not publicly available. Those are not the people you see on TV or a stream. In fact, much of the reason their work is valuable is because of its private nature. | ||
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
On December 17 2016 08:11 Murlox wrote: I used to really love the SCBW dailies, and early SC2 aswell..... .....This move looks very opportunistic to me. Don't like it. This. I loved his SC shows as well, but always hated his completely lack of criticism towards the clear flaws in the game, that eventually led it to the pseudo dead game (popular and competitive wise) that is today. Such AMAZING franchise that got millions of players from the get go, but went to the abandon due to awful design flaws. Now, Day9. Zero critisism. So you love the game as it is, right? "Passion"... Flash foward: Sc2 popularity and competitive scene: dead. Day9? Abandon ship, going to the next popular game... Yeah, passion... | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2532 Posts
The dude has a community and viewerbase that is largely, at this point, casual-competitive gamers. His content in the last few years is largely funday monday-like goofy shenanigans through hearthstone, random adventure game or silly dating sim game or whatever things he has on his youtube channel. Going to dota 2 is definitely not an "Oh hey I'd better make money off of this immensely popular game" anywhere near as much as it seems to be an avenue for competitive outlet for a man who has clearly shown in the past that he craves such competitive outlet. | ||
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Jelissei
193 Posts
On January 07 2017 17:10 Belha wrote: This. I loved his SC shows as well, but always hated his completely lack of criticism towards the clear flaws in the game, that eventually led it to the pseudo dead game (popular and competitive wise) that is today. (...) I hope I'm misunderstanding you, but are you making day9 responsible for Blizzards crappy game development / marketing / decisions? That would be really weird. --------------------- And looking at the argument he should've grown up with dota to be (ethically) allowed to make videos about the game... ... are you frikkin' serious? The only persons (that are making content today) I can remember starting with dota (around 2008-2009) are: LD, Luminous, Tobi, Purge, Merlini and the sorts. A large minority of todays dota personalities! How would one grow dota with such an elitist attitude? | ||
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Murlox
France1699 Posts
On January 07 2017 20:44 Jelissei wrote: How would one grow dota with such an elitist attitude? There's probably many people who were around at this time / who've been interested in dota for more than a few months. But it's turning into speculation now. I just don't like the move, and it's only my opinion, nothing that will affect... anyone. So some of you should probably relax, no need to resort to insults or anything, you are indeed free not to share my views. @Odawg27 Thanks for your post. You make some good points. In essence, it's not that I'm concerned for other people, it's more that... to put it bluntly, I've been disappointed by Day9, over the last couple of years ("all i'm seeing is a fat lazy dude playing heartstone while giggling to himself" was my post, not comic routine, which would have been much nicer I guess :s). But you know what they say, you can only get disappointed by people you (used to) value. I really enjoyed early Day9. I will check the videos, hopefully he gets his flame back. | ||
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Taters_
Finland123 Posts
On January 07 2017 23:52 Murlox wrote: There's probably many people who were around at this time / who've been interested in dota for more than a few months. But it's turning into speculation now. I just don't like the move, and it's only my opinion, nothing that will affect... anyone. So some of you should probably relax, no need to resort to insults or anything, you are indeed free not to share my views. @Odawg27 Thanks for your post. You make some good points. In essence, it's not that I'm concerned for other people, it's more that... to put it bluntly, I've been disappointed by Day9, over the last couple of years ("all i'm seeing is a fat lazy dude playing heartstone while giggling to himself" was my post, not comic routine, which would have been much nicer I guess :s). But you know what they say, you can only get disappointed by people you (used to) value. I really enjoyed early Day9. I will check the videos, hopefully he gets his flame back. Actually the reason he stopped making sc2 content was because at the time he was working on the game and didn't have time to prep his shows properly and didn't want to put out half-assed shows. He picked up hearthstone for the same reason as he didn't want to stop streaming and to him hearthstone didn't require the prep so he could just open the stream and jump into it. | ||
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Ayaz2810
United States2763 Posts
edit: UNIIIIIDEEEEEEN | ||
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