EPT/r/dota2/ went crazy with hype. What do you folks think?
"Day[9] Learns DotA" with Purge
| Forum Index > The Tavern |
|
Aron Times
United States312 Posts
/r/dota2/ went crazy with hype. What do you folks think? | ||
|
OmniEulogy
Canada6592 Posts
| ||
|
Murlox
France1699 Posts
I was still occasionnaly checking the dailies, but in time, all I ended up seeing was a fat lazy dude playing Hearthstone, and giggling to himself. This move looks very opportunistic to me. Don't like it. | ||
|
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
| ||
|
Fr00zen
Norway3 Posts
| ||
|
Ayaz2810
United States2763 Posts
| ||
|
Jisira
470 Posts
| ||
|
RuiBarbO
United States1340 Posts
On December 18 2016 01:07 Fr00zen wrote: I don't see what's wrong with Day9 getting into the dota scene, why the negativity? Personally I'm pretty happy to see this happening. I guess he needed a new game to be involved with, seeing as that RTS he was working on didn't work out for him. Lemme selectively quote what you said to make a point that's completely different from yours but still speaks to the answer I'd like to make to your question: "...the dota scene, why the negativity?" Boom. | ||
|
Fleetfeet
Canada2530 Posts
On December 18 2016 06:01 RuiBarbO wrote: Lemme selectively quote what you said to make a point that's completely different from yours but still speaks to the answer I'd like to make to your question: "...the dota scene, why the negativity?" Boom. Honestly this is what interests me most. Aside from when Day9's being heavily strategic/analytical, he comes across as a super lighthearted and goofy dude, which is at odds with the norm of Dota 2 culture. I'm curious to see which ends up winning that battle. | ||
|
Archeon
3253 Posts
| ||
|
hpty603
United States262 Posts
On December 17 2016 08:11 Murlox wrote: I used to really love the SCBW dailies, and early SC2 aswell. I was still occasionnaly checking the dailies, but in time, all I ended up seeing was a fat lazy dude playing Hearthstone, and giggling to himself. This move looks very opportunistic to me. Don't like it. Day9 is lazy? Granted I haven't watched him in a few years now since I got out of sc2, but good lord he was always insanely busy back then | ||
|
Jutranjo
Slovenia140 Posts
| ||
|
cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
On December 17 2016 08:11 Murlox wrote: I used to really love the SCBW dailies, and early SC2 aswell. I was still occasionnaly checking the dailies, but in time, all I ended up seeing was a fat lazy dude playing Hearthstone, and giggling to himself. This move looks very opportunistic to me. Don't like it. Oh, please. Committing to making a regular dota 2 content in 2016 is opportunistic? When he's already got a big following in hearthstone? That's the opposite to being opportunistic. He could jump at Overwatch if he wanted easy money. Seriously, people will try to find something negative about anything, | ||
|
Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
On December 19 2016 09:53 cecek wrote: Oh, please. Committing to making a regular dota 2 content in 2016 is opportunistic? When he's already got a big following in hearthstone? That's the opposite to being opportunistic. He could jump at Overwatch if he wanted easy money. Seriously, people will try to find something negative about anything, Yeah, I don't see this as being very opportunistic for Day 9. He could have easily done some content like "Day9 learns Overwatch" or "League with Day9" which is a safer bet to net views than if he jumped to DotA.. There are some valid criticisms people can have of day 9 but labelling him as a fat lazy dude seems more of a personal attack than anything. | ||
|
Chewbacca.
United States3634 Posts
| ||
|
nanaoei
3358 Posts
On December 19 2016 10:21 Kuroeeah wrote: Yeah, I don't see this as being very opportunistic for Day 9. He could have easily done some content like "Day9 learns Overwatch" or "League with Day9" which is a safer bet to net views than if he jumped to DotA.. There are some valid criticisms people can have of day 9 but labelling him as a fat lazy dude seems more of a personal attack than anything. don't think either of those games are his style, and he did try learning heroes of the storm, because, at the time, blizzard. it's smart to be opportunistic. he does this stuff for a living and his brand has fallen out of favor for a lot of his older viewers who did not follow him to hearthstone. | ||
|
Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
On December 19 2016 13:32 nanaoei wrote: don't think either of those games are his style, and he did try learning heroes of the storm, because, at the time, blizzard. it's smart to be opportunistic. he does this stuff for a living and his brand has fallen out of favor for a lot of his older viewers who did not follow him to hearthstone. it doesn't matter if it's his style or not, im sure his brand is probably more recognized than starcraft itself sadly. he'll get the traction playing just about anything because of how well established he is. | ||
|
Murlox
France1699 Posts
On December 19 2016 10:21 Kuroeeah wrote: There are some valid criticisms people can have of day 9 but labelling him as a fat lazy dude seems more of a personal attack than anything. Well it is personal but I mean his show is very centered around himself. If you don't like a comedian (or what he became), you probably won't go to his stand up. As for an attack, who am I to attack Day9. Can you really attack someone when they have no clue of your existence. Imagine an ant, somewhere, calling me a lazy dude. I couldn't care less. And this ant meant no harm, she simply has been watching me, and dislikes what she sees now. That was basically my post. Also I don't try to be negative, I'm just conveying the negative impression his content left me with over the years, altogether my doubts on this particular move. | ||
|
Murlox
France1699 Posts
On December 19 2016 13:32 nanaoei wrote: don't think either of those games are his style, and he did try learning heroes of the storm, because, at the time, blizzard. Basically this, too. I wouldn't say style, I would say... league? I mean the guy is born and raised into starcraft, he breathes starcraft. He IS starcraft. And he was (seemingly, I'd imagine) willing to put a crazy amount of prep work into each dailies, which were presented brilliantly. The guy is brilliant, knowledgable, entertaining, interesting... I don't know, bold. This was very humbling, thank you Day9. And then, fast forward quite a bit, all I see is a fat lazy dude playing heartstone (I don't mean to hammer it, it's just... to catch up with my previous post). Where is Day9. So yeah, put this new Day9 into a gender he was not raised in, well, I don't know. I feel like this is just a variation of Day9 play heartstone, now Day9 plays Dota2, tomorrow Day9 teaches you how to cook. I am not hyped. Sorry for long posts, just felt like clarifying. I wish him the best anyway, probably without me. | ||
|
ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
| ||
|
Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
| ||
|
Byyk
457 Posts
| ||
|
PoulsenB
Poland7710 Posts
| ||
|
Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
| ||
|
Merany
France890 Posts
| ||
|
Silan
Denmark198 Posts
| ||
|
schmitty9800
United States390 Posts
On December 22 2016 06:17 Silan wrote: Anyone questioning him or his thoughts should really listen to the embedded video on page 1, he explains exactly why i love Dota and why this make sense to him in particular. Agreed, I really question that person saying that it's an opportunistic move...if someone really wanted to jump on a most popular game for streaming numbers I'd think Overwatch or League would be a better move. | ||
|
Murlox
France1699 Posts
I don't believe a move has to be the best one (or even a good one) to qualify as opportunistic. According to freedictionnary.com : Opportunistic : Taking immediate advantage, often unethically, of any circumstance of possible benefit. Possible benefit -> check any circumstances -> sort of check often unethically -> that's the big one, let's keep it for later immediate advantage -> not checked Personnally, I don't think the move is ethical. I don't like it. To me, dota is a game you grew with, you learned and loved 10 years ago. Then you have a legitimacy to talk about it. You don't just show up after patch 7.00 and end up with "hey, let me lecture you about the intricacies of this game" - remember when Totalbiscuit decided to jump in the SC wagon and cast SC2? I like the guy, but that... is not enough. It was terrible, imo. Because that's what I feel is going to happen when I read about Day9 coming to Dota2. I mean, he is known for his casting, analysis, humour... I cannot see him refrain his self and stay a humble pupil very long. Basically what I'm seeing is a move toward a Dota2 casting/personality seat - the fact that his name was mentioned for Boston Major hosting probably helps that sentiment - and that feels wrong to me. It's like breakycpk (most famous HoN casters for many years), he's now getting closer to dota2, casting matches, making videos about his thoughts on ppd recent w/e and so on. It just feels off to me, forced, awkward, I don't know. At least the guy was pioneering HoN casting, remained a staple figure for many years. Day9 doesn't have any experience, nor demonstrated any interest in the moba gender... ever? In the end, a man has to eat and who am I to judge? Well I'm me, and I don't like those moves, they seem opportunistic to me. Despite them not being immediate, so I guess ~75% opportunistic -_- That said, I could be totally wrong on the caster/personality thing (for Day9 anyway, I think Breaky's intentions are quite clear), in which case my comment doesn't stand. A man can play/stream w/e the hell he wants, I see no problem with that! | ||
|
Chewbacca.
United States3634 Posts
This show is also about him being lectured on how to play, not about him lecturing.. | ||
|
ASoo
2864 Posts
On January 06 2017 08:53 Chewbacca. wrote: I fail to see how him not growing up playing Dota, and now wanting to become involved, can possibly be considered unethical. If he tries to jump in and start lecturing people on the finer points of Dota while still being a 2k player, that is silly, but not unethical. This show is also about him being lectured on how to play, not about him lecturing.. something something gatekeeping something HOW DARE THESE PLEBS ENJOY SOMETHING THAT I ALSO ENJOY WITHOUT HAVING INVESTED AS MUCH TIME AND LOVE INTO IT AS I HAVE? | ||
|
Odawg27
United States191 Posts
On January 06 2017 07:22 Murlox wrote: Sure, what is your question? I don't believe a move has to be the best one (or even a good one) to qualify as opportunistic. According to freedictionnary.com : Opportunistic : Taking immediate advantage, often unethically, of any circumstance of possible benefit. Possible benefit -> check any circumstances -> sort of check often unethically -> that's the big one, let's keep it for later immediate advantage -> not checked Personnally, I don't think the move is ethical. I don't like it. To me, dota is a game you grew with, you learned and loved 10 years ago. Then you have a legitimacy to talk about it. You don't just show up after patch 7.00 and end up with "hey, let me lecture you about the intricacies of this game" - remember when Totalbiscuit decided to jump in the SC wagon and cast SC2? I like the guy, but that... is not enough. It was terrible, imo. Because that's what I feel is going to happen when I read about Day9 coming to Dota2. I mean, he is known for his casting, analysis, humour... I cannot see him refrain his self and stay a humble pupil very long. Basically what I'm seeing is a move toward a Dota2 casting/personality seat - the fact that his name was mentioned for Boston Major hosting probably helps that sentiment - and that feels wrong to me. It's like breakycpk (most famous HoN casters for many years), he's now getting closer to dota2, casting matches, making videos about his thoughts on ppd recent w/e and so on. It just feels off to me, forced, awkward, I don't know. At least the guy was pioneering HoN casting, remained a staple figure for many years. Day9 doesn't have any experience, nor demonstrated any interest in the moba gender... ever? In the end, a man has to eat and who am I to judge? Well I'm me, and I don't like those moves, they seem opportunistic to me. Despite them not being immediate, so I guess ~75% opportunistic -_- That said, I could be totally wrong on the caster/personality thing (for Day9 anyway, I think Breaky's intentions are quite clear), in which case my comment doesn't stand. A man can play/stream w/e the hell he wants, I see no problem with that! I don't know if I understand the issue. I think you're trying to say it would be unfair and wrong if Day[9] without properly demonstrating his ability or understanding of the game was brought to the front of the line for analysts or personalities of Dota 2, just because he's Day[9] and showing up/interest. I'll agree with you on that point (if that is your point). But you seem to extend that into a very high bar that only people who have been with the game since it came out can do this. That's quite a limiting factor and is in my opinion a wrong idea to hold. Without the outside influence of team managers who started with other games or players who brought their unique experience to the table, Dota 2 would not evolve at nearly the pace it does. N0tail was pretty well known in HoN before coming to Dota if memory serves. Do his achievements or impact on the game as well as the other players coming from other games not count or should be seen as not "true" Dota. Here's the thing, this isn't "unethical" at all. Day[9] has shown, while he's a very energetic and rambunctious personality, he's also very professional when the situation calls for it from his days of casting SC2. The moral part of it really doesn't seem to come into effect here. He's not calling for teams to replace their coach or players with him. He's not whining about not being a caster or personality or analyst at any events. He's not holding anything over events or teams or sponsors in some sort of blackmail attempt to get himself further into Dota 2. Is he starting a new series with a popular moba, possibly in an attempt to get more viewers and variety on his streams? It seems to be. Is there anything at all wrong with that? No. Just because a shop decides to start selling a popular item it hasn't before, doesn't make it unethical or wrong. You're more than welcome to hold to your opinion that only the originators can truly be Dota 2 players/analysts/fans/hosts/monetary streamers. as I stated above, I think that's incorrect. Day[9] has been playing the game for months before this announcement, learning the ropes before patch 7.00. He also says he enjoys the game and it seems like he wishes to dive into it and really learn it from the ground up and Purge is giving him this chance. Sure, if Day[9] comes off as all-knowing and condescending during the streams that's different. But even if you don't like his Hearthstone (comic routine as you called it in an earlier post), I don't think you can really comment on him coming in and lecturing about the intricacies of the game. He's stated this is a learning experience for him and is going to try and sponge up the knowledge, have fun and entertain his viewers. I can't see a single thing wrong with that or see any inkling he's going to be a know-it-all to any Dota 2 veterans. There's not even anything wrong or unethical about that. I think it will be a turn-off to most of his viewers who come to watch him have fun and be nice. I really think your issue is this, You're concerned because of his name recognition he'll knock other caster/personalities out of spots they've earned when he hasn't. But that hasn't happened yet. Not only that, if Day[9] does show an aptitude for the game, picking up the ropes and learning the intricacies while putting in tons of effort to learn, why shouldn't he be offered a spot if he's earned it too. If this happens (I tend to think it probably will happen) and he chooses to put out well-informed, interesting and helpful dailies on Dota 2, while casting and analyzing, that will be a good thing for Dota. I don't see how it couldn't. | ||
|
Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
| ||
|
acie
United States247 Posts
just because you say "who am i to judge?" doesn't excuse the fact that you are actually being a judgmental cunt | ||
|
Gimpb
293 Posts
Have typically enjoyed his content well after I stopped enjoying the game he was playing The thing that's made him great at what he does is he's a brilliant entertainer, not his analytical prowess. This is true for all sports personalities, they are valued because they are good entertainers. That's not so say he doesn't know his stuff, he often does, and he also tends to know when he doesn't as well. Some personalities do use technical understanding as a tool to help them do their thing. That said, the real technical experts in any mature sports scene probably spend their time buried in modelinand statistical calculations few people have the knowledge to understand and seeking inside information that is not publicly available. Those are not the people you see on TV or a stream. In fact, much of the reason their work is valuable is because of its private nature. | ||
|
Belha
Italy2850 Posts
On December 17 2016 08:11 Murlox wrote: I used to really love the SCBW dailies, and early SC2 aswell..... .....This move looks very opportunistic to me. Don't like it. This. I loved his SC shows as well, but always hated his completely lack of criticism towards the clear flaws in the game, that eventually led it to the pseudo dead game (popular and competitive wise) that is today. Such AMAZING franchise that got millions of players from the get go, but went to the abandon due to awful design flaws. Now, Day9. Zero critisism. So you love the game as it is, right? "Passion"... Flash foward: Sc2 popularity and competitive scene: dead. Day9? Abandon ship, going to the next popular game... Yeah, passion... | ||
|
Fleetfeet
Canada2530 Posts
The dude has a community and viewerbase that is largely, at this point, casual-competitive gamers. His content in the last few years is largely funday monday-like goofy shenanigans through hearthstone, random adventure game or silly dating sim game or whatever things he has on his youtube channel. Going to dota 2 is definitely not an "Oh hey I'd better make money off of this immensely popular game" anywhere near as much as it seems to be an avenue for competitive outlet for a man who has clearly shown in the past that he craves such competitive outlet. | ||
|
Jelissei
193 Posts
On January 07 2017 17:10 Belha wrote: This. I loved his SC shows as well, but always hated his completely lack of criticism towards the clear flaws in the game, that eventually led it to the pseudo dead game (popular and competitive wise) that is today. (...) I hope I'm misunderstanding you, but are you making day9 responsible for Blizzards crappy game development / marketing / decisions? That would be really weird. --------------------- And looking at the argument he should've grown up with dota to be (ethically) allowed to make videos about the game... ... are you frikkin' serious? The only persons (that are making content today) I can remember starting with dota (around 2008-2009) are: LD, Luminous, Tobi, Purge, Merlini and the sorts. A large minority of todays dota personalities! How would one grow dota with such an elitist attitude? | ||
|
Murlox
France1699 Posts
On January 07 2017 20:44 Jelissei wrote: How would one grow dota with such an elitist attitude? There's probably many people who were around at this time / who've been interested in dota for more than a few months. But it's turning into speculation now. I just don't like the move, and it's only my opinion, nothing that will affect... anyone. So some of you should probably relax, no need to resort to insults or anything, you are indeed free not to share my views. @Odawg27 Thanks for your post. You make some good points. In essence, it's not that I'm concerned for other people, it's more that... to put it bluntly, I've been disappointed by Day9, over the last couple of years ("all i'm seeing is a fat lazy dude playing heartstone while giggling to himself" was my post, not comic routine, which would have been much nicer I guess :s). But you know what they say, you can only get disappointed by people you (used to) value. I really enjoyed early Day9. I will check the videos, hopefully he gets his flame back. | ||
|
Taters_
Finland123 Posts
On January 07 2017 23:52 Murlox wrote: There's probably many people who were around at this time / who've been interested in dota for more than a few months. But it's turning into speculation now. I just don't like the move, and it's only my opinion, nothing that will affect... anyone. So some of you should probably relax, no need to resort to insults or anything, you are indeed free not to share my views. @Odawg27 Thanks for your post. You make some good points. In essence, it's not that I'm concerned for other people, it's more that... to put it bluntly, I've been disappointed by Day9, over the last couple of years ("all i'm seeing is a fat lazy dude playing heartstone while giggling to himself" was my post, not comic routine, which would have been much nicer I guess :s). But you know what they say, you can only get disappointed by people you (used to) value. I really enjoyed early Day9. I will check the videos, hopefully he gets his flame back. Actually the reason he stopped making sc2 content was because at the time he was working on the game and didn't have time to prep his shows properly and didn't want to put out half-assed shows. He picked up hearthstone for the same reason as he didn't want to stop streaming and to him hearthstone didn't require the prep so he could just open the stream and jump into it. | ||
|
Ayaz2810
United States2763 Posts
edit: UNIIIIIDEEEEEEN | ||
|
cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
Let's just look at this. He's starting a regular Dota 2 show in 2017. The show will take A LOT of effort to make (schedule to keep, prepare, cooperate with purge, etc.). At the same time, he could easily just stream Hearthstone (where he already has an established fanbase) with a fraction of the effort and likely get more viewers than this thing. Or he could get into Overwatch while it still is in the honeymoon period. Which would even be in line with his Blizzard games fanbase. Or literally anything fucking else. Day9 is entertaining on stream, he could make Minecraft Let's PLays and make more money than doing this. Seriously, how you cynical fuckers can call this opportunistic is beyond me. | ||
|
smilingjuggernaut
74 Posts
On January 10 2017 02:20 cecek wrote: You guys are the biggest elitist shits I've ever seen, rofl. Let's just look at this. He's starting a regular Dota 2 show in 2017. The show will take A LOT of effort to make (schedule to keep, prepare, cooperate with purge, etc.). At the same time, he could easily just stream Hearthstone (where he already has an established fanbase) with a fraction of the effort and likely get more viewers than this thing. Or he could get into Overwatch while it still is in the honeymoon period. Which would even be in line with his Blizzard games fanbase. Or literally anything fucking else. Day9 is entertaining on stream, he could make Minecraft Let's PLays and make more money than doing this. Seriously, how you cynical fuckers can call this opportunistic is beyond me. Well, the word opportunistic is pretty innocent isnt it? Just means to take advantage of favorable circumstances to do whatever you wanted to do. Maybe you're reading judgemental connotation into a word where none was meant. Or maybe people are judgemental. Who knows XD | ||
|
ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On January 10 2017 03:23 smilingjuggernaut wrote: Well, the word opportunistic is pretty innocent isnt it? Just means to take advantage of favorable circumstances to do whatever you wanted to do. Maybe you're reading judgemental connotation into a word where none was meant. Or maybe people are judgemental. Who knows XD there is no way u can argue that the word opportunistic doesnt have negative connotations to it especially when most dictionary definitions are "Exploiting immediate opportunities, especially regardless of planning or principle" | ||
|
giftdgecko
United States2126 Posts
| ||
|
Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
| ||
|
TheTrenchTier
21 Posts
On January 07 2017 17:10 Belha wrote: This. I loved his SC shows as well, but always hated his completely lack of criticism towards the clear flaws in the game, that eventually led it to the pseudo dead game (popular and competitive wise) that is today. Such AMAZING franchise that got millions of players from the get go, but went to the abandon due to awful design flaws. Now, Day9. Zero critisism. So you love the game as it is, right? "Passion"... Flash foward: Sc2 popularity and competitive scene: dead. Day9? Abandon ship, going to the next popular game... Yeah, passion... Day9 stopped doing dailies because he got a full-time job as a game designer for Artillery Games. As Day9 explained many times through his daily making career, he spent many hours preparing dailies, it was like a full-time job for him. So when he got a full time job with Artillery Games, he no longer had time to prepare dailies. So he started streaming Hearthstone because it didn't require extensive preparation. Day9's show was a strategy based show, meant to teach you STRATEGY on how to play Starcraft 2 better. If you wanted to watch someone complain about the game 24/7, you could go watch Avilo. How people get off insinuating him having interest in another game is somehow negatively opportunistic is absolutely insane, especially since he left Artillery Games a while ago. How is this any different from Redeye hosting less SC2 to host Dota 2 without having been part of the communtiy for years and years. | ||
|
Baradrist
Germany96 Posts
Him coming to Dota is definatelly a win for the community. His views on strategy can certainly add more depth to how the game is played. A fresh, but experienced mind in Dota? Why not?? I mean ... I don't think he will become a top player or anything, but a really good caster and/or panel guy? Sounds great to me. I will follow him on his path. And maybe many more SC2 players get attracted to our game as well because of him? Cool! A larger player base just means that I will have to argue less with LOL players about which game is better, because their main (and only? :D) point is usually that more people play LOL. Hehe. Bring the numbers in, Day[9]!!! | ||
|
Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
On January 11 2017 21:33 Baradrist wrote: I loved Day9's dailys and I will surely love this show. Just because he is a very entertaining and despite his success (both ingame during "his days" as well as on his many shows) somehow genuine and down to earth person. I seldomly saw such a fundamentally positive player/caster/"talent" (I don't like the last word in this usage ... but w/e :D). Him coming to Dota is definatelly a win for the community. His views on strategy can certainly add more depth to how the game is played. A fresh, but experienced mind in Dota? Why not?? I mean ... I don't think he will become a top player or anything, but a really good caster and/or panel guy? Sounds great to me. I will follow him on his path. And maybe many more SC2 players get attracted to our game as well because of him? Cool! A larger player base just means that I will have to argue less with LOL players about which game is better, because their main (and only? :D) point is usually that more people play LOL. Hehe. Bring the numbers in, Day[9]!!! That's an optmistic view i would say. What probably will happen is that he'll make vids, he'll not add any depth to the game, might enlighten bad players, but it'll not make a difference in any place's pubs. If he get to be a regular talent in lans it'll be good for his fans and meh for whoever else. If he manages to get some people to play dota it'll be nothing too much, maybe 35k players start playing because of him but that's whatever. All in all, it'll be new dota content, maybe a new face in lans. Nothing past this. | ||
|
TheRubicon
United States1342 Posts
you cant ask to climb a mountain without starting at the bottom - lighten up people and embrace what is to come | ||
|
Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
Redeye is like now the go to host for professional attitude and presentation, he did mainly pure SC2 for quite a while. He switched to Dota2 with basically zero game knowledge and he's now regarded as one of the better and more enjoyable hosts. Day9 isnt even getting anything out of this right now expect some viewers on his stream that he would probably normally get, its not like hes said "hey im jumping into dota please throw money and casting opportunities at me!" If you listen to him talk about dota hes been privately playing atm and just enjoying a new style of mechanics and how its cool. He just wants to improve at a hard game thats pretty much why he loved broodwar. Even if he eventually gets casting opportunities, who the fuck cares, it will be because the fans want it. | ||
|
Silan
Denmark198 Posts
On January 12 2017 00:20 Pontual wrote: That's an optmistic view i would say. What probably will happen is that he'll make vids, he'll not add any depth to the game, might enlighten bad players, but it'll not make a difference in any place's pubs. If he get to be a regular talent in lans it'll be good for his fans and meh for whoever else. If he manages to get some people to play dota it'll be nothing too much, maybe 35k players start playing because of him but that's whatever. All in all, it'll be new dota content, maybe a new face in lans. Nothing past this. Thats a pessimistic view i would say :D. People severely underestimate what it takes to be one of the best starcraft players in the foreign scene. Look at me vs day9: Day9: 100 hours of dota (guess) Me: 4000 hours Day9: Years of experience competing at the highest level Me: 0 experience. Its the same when Kasper Hvidt (one of the greatest handball goalkeepers ever) wants to help counter-strike players perform their best. He doesn't know shit about CS (compared to the pros) but he has a lot of experience in competition, and that experience is super valuable for Astralis and the other players. Day9 probably won't tell me anything mechanical about Dota2 that i dont know already, but he very likely will help me gain different perspective on different parts of the game which in turn helps me improve as a player. Also, this is Day9 and Purge, two pretty big community figures, if they make a show that blows up, the effect could be noticeable. Of course its not going to double the player count after 3 shows, but i think a lot of us kept playing SC2 ladder because of his dailies and fundays ect, probably more then people realize. Also, if you still haven't seen Day9 talk about Dota2, you should watch some of the videos. He is shining, and to get his massive sincere enthusiasm in Dota2 is certainly good for everyone (besides the haters, but who cares about them). | ||
|
Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
Of course Day9 is more entertaining and he has an actual fanbase, so i'm expecting to whoever watch this videos learn how to pull and how to read map, but those probably won't be that many. My perspective is about the full dota scene, but personally i'm excited and probably will improve watching it. Just not expecting a revolution from it. my previous post was pretty much out of this: On January 11 2017 21:33 Baradrist wrote: "Him coming to Dota is definatelly a win for the community. His views on strategy can certainly add more depth to how the game is played. A fresh, but experienced mind in Dota? Why not?? I mean ... I don't think he will become a top player or anything, but a really good caster and/or panel guy? Sounds great to me. I will follow him on his path. And maybe many more SC2 players get attracted to our game as well because of him? Cool! A larger player base just means that I will have to argue less with LOL players about which game is better, because their main (and only? :D) point is usually that more people play LOL. Hehe. Bring the numbers in, Day[9]!!!" | ||
|
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
| ||
|
ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On January 13 2017 00:59 Torte de Lini wrote: The outgroup derogation in this thread is just sad and reflective of the current state of this community. Strange to see someone who's come from the community (Teamliquid no less) is being met with so much skepticism for no valid reason. implying there's significant crossover between the liquiddota community and teamliquid | ||
|
Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
 Don't think this thread can be considered a reflection of the state of the community. Mostly because the skeptical ones are at most, a dozen of scrubs. | ||
|
mutantmagnet
United States3789 Posts
On January 13 2017 02:52 Pontual wrote: Learned what is derogation today Don't think this thread can be considered a reflection of the state of the community. Mostly because the skeptical ones are at most, a dozen of scrubs. Well the scrubs have dominated the mood of this thread. They need a time out. | ||
|
Garrl
Scotland1972 Posts
On December 20 2016 03:09 Murlox wrote: Basically this, too. I wouldn't say style, I would say... league? I mean the guy is born and raised into starcraft, he breathes starcraft. He IS starcraft. And he was (seemingly, I'd imagine) willing to put a crazy amount of prep work into each dailies, which were presented brilliantly. The guy is brilliant, knowledgable, entertaining, interesting... I don't know, bold. This was very humbling, thank you Day9. And then, fast forward quite a bit, all I see is a fat lazy dude playing heartstone (I don't mean to hammer it, it's just... to catch up with my previous post). Where is Day9. So yeah, put this new Day9 into a gender he was not raised in, well, I don't know. I feel like this is just a variation of Day9 play heartstone, now Day9 plays Dota2, tomorrow Day9 teaches you how to cook. I am not hyped. Sorry for long posts, just felt like clarifying. I wish him the best anyway, probably without me. "lazy" - he was streaming 4 times a week while working a fulltime job at artillery games for over 2 years. tbh i cant see how day9 wouldnt be a perfect fit into dota 2, the same strategic principles applied in starcraft can easily be carried over to dota, just, similar to starcraft again, you need to pass a mechanical and knowledge boundary (macro/micro/positioning -> CSing/item+hero knowledge/positioning etc) to be able to apply those effectively | ||
|
VGhost
United States3613 Posts
On January 12 2017 00:20 Pontual wrote: That's an optmistic view i would say. What probably will happen is that he'll make vids, he'll not add any depth to the game, might enlighten bad players, but it'll not make a difference in any place's pubs. If he get to be a regular talent in lans it'll be good for his fans and meh for whoever else. If he manages to get some people to play dota it'll be nothing too much, maybe 35k players start playing because of him but that's whatever. All in all, it'll be new dota content, maybe a new face in lans. Nothing past this. I'm not even a DOTA player (I mean this literally: I've fiddled with some of the tutorials, but that's it). I simply don't have the time between work and other hobbies. But I like watching the game. Years ago I was a half-decent BW player, but beyond the campaigns really never got into SC2 - but Day[9] I know and I'm looking forward to what he'll do, even though I've already started watching DOTA pretty regularly Here's what I'm getting at: The more the scene denigrates and abuses "n00bs" and "casuals" and so forth, the more you're going to turn people away and the smaller and less relevant the game stays. Watching streams, for instance, it's a big turn off to see people asking to report players just for playing badly in pub games. I get it's a team game and getting a doofus on your team is frustrating, but what exactly are you trying to accomplish here? That's not helping anything, that's just throwing a tantrum because your special self didn't get the result you wanted. What I'm saying is I'm baffled by you and others treating it like a bad or irrelevant thing that Day[9] will (you're assuming) cater to the casual fan. For the good of the game, shouldn't that be a good thing? | ||
|
RuiBarbO
United States1340 Posts
| ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On January 16 2017 08:02 RuiBarbO wrote: Omg this conversation is STILL going on? I saw 20 new posts and thought "hey maybe the show started airing" It's supposed to start this Wednesday, so the wait won't be too much longer. | ||
|
Artisreal
Germany9234 Posts
I suppose if you don't know him you can watch the following video to get to know him quite a bit. Or who he was in the SC2 days. Idk how much has changed but I'm looking forward to the show as well. | ||
|
Julmust
Sweden4867 Posts
On January 16 2017 14:53 Nevuk wrote: It's supposed to start this Wednesday, so the wait won't be too much longer. We're gonna put all the shows on the calendar, so you (hopefully) won't miss it | ||
|
Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
| ||
|
Shrinkzxo
Dotoland672 Posts
On January 19 2017 03:28 Pontual wrote: So it starts today? Does anyone know the time? Or will it be re-scheduled for another day? In 2 hours | ||
|
cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
thanks. I hate timezones, this is helpful. | ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
| ||
|
Garrl
Scotland1972 Posts
| ||
|
BlazingGlory
Bulgaria854 Posts
Is it me or Day9 was a better looking man long ago. Maybe forgetting things. | ||
|
Julmust
Sweden4867 Posts
| ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On January 19 2017 07:54 BlazingGlory wrote: I liked his SC vods but i see no point in watching this over Matumba for instance. Over anything actually. Is it me or Day9 was a better looking man long ago. Maybe forgetting things. The series is currently not really useful as a guide to a player above ~4k or so, but it seems very useful for 2-3k players, who are the majority of the player base. | ||
|
Belisarius
Australia6225 Posts
| ||
|
giftdgecko
United States2126 Posts
| ||
|
zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On January 19 2017 07:54 BlazingGlory wrote: I liked his SC vods but i see no point in watching this over Matumba for instance. Over anything actually. Is it me or Day9 was a better looking man long ago. Maybe forgetting things. he got old(er). i wish this was live coaching, cause he has no idea what to do, maybe its just cause he's playing support | ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On January 19 2017 09:36 giftdgecko wrote: Stream is currently "Day9 doesn't understand batrider" That's part of it, but he's also getting killed by sniper because he's trying to farm lane as lion (which is actually a fairly large amount of his deaths). More of a misunderstanding of how to play a support. Should just hide in the trees, he'd be way more effective. On January 19 2017 09:41 zev318 wrote: he got old(er). i wish this was live coaching, cause he has no idea what to do, maybe its just cause he's playing support He did decently on viper, it's supporting that's the issue (though that does seem to be why he's keeping at it) | ||
|
Daray
6006 Posts
| ||
|
Belisarius
Australia6225 Posts
It's also kinda painful though because there's so many things he's agonising over that any random 3k, let alone purge, could clear up in like two seconds. | ||
|
Moobutt
United States1996 Posts
| ||
|
Papercappu
Canada2210 Posts
| ||
|
Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
Today it'll be on Purge's stream, where purge will show the clips he chose from yesterday's games and will bash day9 to death (he does this to everyone, nothing personal) So, today is the stream to watch if you want something educational. Btw, had a lot of fun with day9 yesterday, personally. | ||
|
ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
| ||
|
Julmust
Sweden4867 Posts
On January 19 2017 18:52 ahswtini wrote: i wonder how effective this approach is, as opposed to live coaching I think it's pretty good. Purge was very clear about wanting to teach concepts. During a game that can be hard to take in, as there's a million things going on. So they sit down and watch the replay the day after. Seems like a very good approach to me. | ||
|
ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
| ||
|
cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
| ||
|
Belisarius
Australia6225 Posts
I would like to watch the full thing also but it's not worth actual money. | ||
|
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
- Concept taught - Application - Review | ||
|
yosar
Australia11 Posts
On January 19 2017 20:33 Belisarius wrote: I'd guess he'll keep them paywalled for a while, but perhaps that's not how he operates. I would like to watch the full thing also but it's not worth actual money. He usually uploads all his content to youtube within a couple of days. | ||
|
Grettin
42381 Posts
On January 19 2017 20:33 Belisarius wrote: I'd guess he'll keep them paywalled for a while, but perhaps that's not how he operates. I would like to watch the full thing also but it's not worth actual money. The twitch subs will most likely stay behind pay wall, but the Youtube VoDs will be available for free. Either here or Purge's youtube. https://www.youtube.com/user/day9tv/videos | ||
|
smilingjuggernaut
74 Posts
| ||
|
Jutranjo
Slovenia140 Posts
Can't wait for next week! | ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
| ||
|
RuiBarbO
United States1340 Posts
| ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On January 20 2017 06:55 RuiBarbO wrote: Well that was fun. Is the post-game coaching session going to be available too? I'm sure it will be on youtube later. For now the VOD is available on twitch here: https://www.twitch.tv/purgegamers/v/115762642 | ||
|
Belisarius
Australia6225 Posts
I've always felt duos were way more reliable than a trilane composed of random 3ks. | ||
|
ChunderBoy
3242 Posts
On January 20 2017 07:24 Belisarius wrote: Interesting that purge isn't a fan of dual offlanes. I've always felt duos were way more reliable than a trilane composed of random 3ks. i mean dota is mostly 1-1-2 with pos 4 doing w.e needs to be done can he roam a lot he can duo lane he can do w.e he wants | ||
|
Belisarius
Australia6225 Posts
But yes, fair enough. | ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
A strong dual offlane (say undying + tusk) can still crush a 3k trilane 90% of the time, but generally people aren't picking to synergize with their own team in that manner unless they duo queued (it's far more common to see people sort of try to counterpick the enemy team at best, or most commonly just pick whatever they feel like playing anyways). My experience in ranked ~4k is like ... 40% 1-1-2 + jungle, 30% 1-1-3, 15% 1-1-2+ 1 roamer, 5% 2-1-2. | ||
|
Yurie
11790 Posts
Watched the intro video and the post analysis. Really feel like purge needs to step up his post-game stuff. He did have a few good examples but there was no thread through what he was doing. First person perspective or even recording the actual Day9 stream would likely be better than the current free cam with both fogs in most cases. Maybe try actually loading the replay and showing it so different viewpoints and places in the game can be shown. Not sure but wasn't coherent as the intro was. | ||
|
Murlox
France1699 Posts
Glad to be wrong, I mean, it went much better than I expected. As for the dual offlane thing, I guess it really depends on your heroes / bracket. Most of the times though, in 3.5k, I feel that a dual offlane can almost outright win you the game. Because, most of the time, people don't trilane, but instead probably run a 4th core in the jungle - it's just what you do in 3.5k, you don't pick a second support, you pick a 4th core and go to the jungle... So you can basically shit on their carry, shit on their jungler, rotate mid, instil massive doubt in their whole team, make them flame each other ("we need wards" "i'm solo support" "stop feeding" "i can't farm" "my carry has nothing", all that good stuff). On the other hand, I'd rather get solo XP on a nyx offlaner, for sure. So yeah, it does depend on the picks / situations, imo | ||
|
Buckyman
1364 Posts
| ||
|
Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
On January 21 2017 03:09 Buckyman wrote: My read on the lower-pub meta is that it's a weak rock-paper-scissors; defensive trilanes beat dual lanes, dual lanes beat junglers and junglers have an edge against trilanes. But trilanes are the least common. and junglers are wildly common lmao it's a draw 90% of the time then | ||
|
Murlox
France1699 Posts
On January 21 2017 03:09 Buckyman wrote: My read on the lower-pub meta is that it's a weak rock-paper-scissors; defensive trilanes beat dual lanes, dual lanes beat junglers and junglers have an edge against trilanes. But trilanes are the least common. Yeah I'd agree with that, nice way to put it too. And when jungling is the norm (low ranked matches basically)... I wouldn't call dual offlane a bad thing. Provided you planned for it a little bit beforehand ofc, don't go there with antimage + spectre and expect good things... | ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
| ||
|
DV G
Argentina2339 Posts
Purge might not be a great player, but I like his analisis and seems his teaching is working. | ||
|
Wineandbread
United States2065 Posts
| ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
| ||
|
YourGoodFriend
United States2197 Posts
On January 26 2017 09:48 Nevuk wrote: The cats are definitely the best part of the stream His reaction to his cat flipping out as they are going over one of his games was great. | ||
|
Murlox
France1699 Posts
I was wrong, good stuff. Props to purge as well, quality prep work. | ||
|
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
Oh you sweet summer child | ||
|
Dr. ROCKZO
New Zealand396 Posts
It'd be really useful if the chat could vote on a tip to display to Sean once every minute, to answer his questions that he has while playing, because right now he asks questions aloud, but has no real way of getting an answer (because Twitch chat is too fast.) That way you'd filter out all the people telling him the not-so-important stuff (i.e.that he should have used his wand last engagement), but he could still get the really vital tips for when he's got some fatal misunderstanding or lack of knowledge (i.e. why the Satyr Tormentor cast shockwave on him.) Maybe his subs could submit the tips, but everyone could vote on them (one vote each round.) Does anyone else think a system like that would be helpful? I might code up a prototype if so. | ||
|
Jutranjo
Slovenia140 Posts
On February 03 2017 16:08 Dr. ROCKZO wrote: I wish Twtich had some sort of system that democratized backseat gaming. It'd be really useful if the chat could vote on a tip to display to Sean once every minute, to answer his questions that he has while playing, because right now he asks questions aloud, but has no real way of getting an answer (because Twitch chat is too fast.) That way you'd filter out all the people telling him the not-so-important stuff (i.e.that he should have used his wand last engagement), but he could still get the really vital tips for when he's got some fatal misunderstanding or lack of knowledge (i.e. why the Satyr Tormentor cast shockwave on him.) Maybe his subs could submit the tips, but everyone could vote on them (one vote each round.) Does anyone else think a system like that would be helpful? I might code up a prototype if so. If a streamer wanted to have that functionality, they could do it now if they ran it locally. Doesn't seem easy to make tho. | ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
| ||
|
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
| ||
|
Yurie
11790 Posts
On January 26 2017 08:10 DV G wrote: He's kinda funny for what I remembered, and seems to know the basics to hit 3k soon. Purge might not be a great player, but I like his analisis and seems his teaching is working. I would say he is in the great category. He is 6k solo mmr (at least that was what showed at the end when they were going to queue for a game together). Good is around 4k in Dota. | ||
|
WindWolf
Sweden11767 Posts
| ||
|
Wineandbread
United States2065 Posts
was pretty funny but he ended up doing decent | ||
|
sc14s
United States5052 Posts
On December 17 2016 08:11 Murlox wrote: I used to really love the SCBW dailies, and early SC2 aswell. I was still occasionnaly checking the dailies, but in time, all I ended up seeing was a fat lazy dude playing Hearthstone, and giggling to himself. This move looks very opportunistic to me. Don't like it. Are you really calling day9 lazy? Just get out. Never come back please. | ||
|
Gamerhcp
734 Posts
| ||
|
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
| ||
|
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
| ||
|
Merany
France890 Posts
| ||
|
MichaelEhrmantraut
35 Posts
| ||
|
Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
| ||
|
meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
| ||
|
evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
| ||
|
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 19 2017 14:29 evanthebouncy! wrote: what's day[9] mmr now? 2.7+ | ||
|
RuiBarbO
United States1340 Posts
| ||
|
Nakama
Germany584 Posts
| ||
|
cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
I gotta say, as much as I like Day9's dota streams, I would enjoy them more if he didn't spam viper. =/ Like any other hero, but Viper? Come oon.. | ||
|
Wineandbread
United States2065 Posts
I watched a bit of a WK game he played yesterday. He laned with a rhasta against a razor. He acknowledged his bad play but I think it was worse than he thought. Right from the start he misses out on fb and gets his shaman killed because he didnt mango in time. He didnt seem to know how razor works and only read his skills once the game was over. He got something like a 13min armlet. His teamfighting targeting felt really bad, I remember one in particular he could have killed PA or somebody but Qs the razor instead and ends up dying. Granted his team wasnt doing too hot and werent that coordinated either. Above all else, I feel that he needs greater minimap awareness, and im not sure its something purge has really emphasized. | ||
|
InFiNitY[pG]
Germany3468 Posts
| ||
|
Buckyman
1364 Posts
| ||
|
Murlox
France1699 Posts
But yeah, I guess dota 2 the game requires some time before you know what's going on, I mean if he doesn't even know what a Razor does... Overall I think he's doing ok. Rest will come with time, imo! | ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
| ||
|
Kishin2
United States7534 Posts
I'm kinda amazed how slow Day9 plays Dota considering his background with starcraft. Mechanically he should be able to move the camera around and cycle through units like Arteezy does. He's definitely not experienced to use all the information from doing that kind of thing, but it's something I expected him to be doing just out of comfort. | ||
|
Moobutt
United States1996 Posts
On April 06 2017 07:56 Kishin2 wrote: Doubt Purge will be back/up for it this week. I'm kinda amazed how slow Day9 plays Dota considering his background with starcraft. Mechanically he should be able to move the camera around and cycle through units like Arteezy does. He's definitely not experienced to use all the information from doing that kind of thing, but it's something I expected him to be doing just out of comfort. It's been a good 4 years since he was seriously devoted to the starcraft scene. The mechanical skills of SC2 decay fast. Plus, the mechanical skills needed in SC2 don't translate that well. Cycling through units is useful on a handful of heroes. His camera movement is kinda weak. The game sense skills translate a bit better imo. Map sense, economic gameplay, general strategic thinking. | ||
|
Murlox
France1699 Posts
I never was a 400 APM player but it's clear that, what, 17 years later, I would not play SC:BW the way I used to. For sure. | ||
|
RuiBarbO
United States1340 Posts
| ||
|
Danzo
2820 Posts
| ||
|
Frogstomp
United States125 Posts
| ||
|
YourGoodFriend
United States2197 Posts
On April 08 2017 06:11 Danzo wrote: Anyone got the feeling Day9 is already burned out with Dota? Maybe it's because he hasn't had lessons with Purge, but he seems pretty fixed on just spamming his same comfort heroes and just playing it out for one day out of the week. I think its more so just the way he learns, he likes to understand one concept at a time so limiting his hero pool is part of that. Also I assume he doesn't stream every time he plays so I am sure he is playing more and just not streaming it | ||
|
RuiBarbO
United States1340 Posts
On April 08 2017 06:11 Danzo wrote: Anyone got the feeling Day9 is already burned out with Dota? Maybe it's because he hasn't had lessons with Purge, but he seems pretty fixed on just spamming his same comfort heroes and just playing it out for one day out of the week. I've also wondered this, although I don't think he is burned out in this case. But if you've followed Day9 since the BW dailies, I think there's a sense that for anything other than BW, his passions don't run quite as deep. We kind of saw him fall away quietly from SC2 and now it's kind of a constant thought in the back of my head, is he going to do it again. Who knows. But I'm enjoying the show so far and I hope whatever he feels about the game, he sees it through to its logical conclusion. | ||
|
YourGoodFriend
United States2197 Posts
| ||
|
Murlox
France1699 Posts
I mean, one probably should try different heroes to see how they all work but... there's no necessity to do it. Regarding the game itself, I was a huge fan of SC:BW and didn't like SC2 all that much. I think I'd put dota on SC:BW level, there's much... things to do, to experiment, to improve. I don't know, the game looks "right" to me, still. And it has been ~17 years... | ||
|
WindWolf
Sweden11767 Posts
I know Purge has been going to events and such (and will also go away for Kiev), but I've missed his sessions. It is nice that he is back, at least for a few weeks | ||
|
cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
Honestly, if he worked on these issues, rather than dissecting the philosophy of what it means to be a carry with Purge, he would climb way faster. | ||
|
thekaas
Denmark235 Posts
On April 19 2017 20:19 cecek wrote: Honestly, I thought he would improve much faster than what's actually happening. He was 2.2k almost exactly 3 months ago and he's 2.7k now, after 8 lessons with Purge. For some reasons he seems bad at everything, even basic rts-style control. He's chasing an enemy just by rightclicking on him, and when the hero goes highground, it takes Day9 a good .5 seconds to issue another command to his hero, because he lost vision. He just flat out doesn't press buttons, frequently dies with his items off cooldown not having used them at all. Despite being overwhelmed by how amazingly efficient treads switching is in the lesson in Purge, he just doesn't do it almost at all in his games. I don't think I've seen him click on an enemy (or allied) hero to check their items a single time, even when he's dead for a minute. He doesn't seem to watch the minimap basically at all. I would understand him doing stupid decisions, bad item builds, picking the wrong hero and whatnot, but he does so many mistakes that are just flat out laziness or not caring, they're not caused by lack of experience or knowledge. Honestly, if he worked on these issues, rather than dissecting the philosophy of what it means to be a carry with Purge, he would climb way faster. I think you're wrong about his improvement being slow. After less than 500 games total starting at 2k, he's 2.8k, with a ranked winrate of ~58%. That's IMO rapid improvement for someone that new to the game. | ||
|
cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
On April 19 2017 21:02 thekaas wrote: I think you're wrong about his improvement being slow. After less than 500 games total starting at 2k, he's 2.8k, with a ranked winrate of ~58%. That's IMO rapid improvement for someone that new to the game. IIRC, their original plan was to have the show run for 4 months and to climb 100mmr a week, so he would be 3.8k after the 16 weeks. Many people (me included) expected him to climb even faster than that, considering he is getting coached , him saying that his goal is to improve and him being a former rts pro player, the precedent being that pro players tend to be great in all games, more or less. Forsen (pro player being used loosely here) calibrated at like 3.6k, 2GD is/was over 5k, Scarlet was pushing into 6k, some csgo pros are also in the 6k bracket, and there's many more examples. And meanwhile, Day9 is still 2.7k after 3 months of being coached and trying to improve. | ||
|
Murlox
France1699 Posts
Day9 is getting old(er), he's running a company, a show. He's (passed?) not trying very hard, he's here to have fun and try to understand / mess around the Dota2 philosophy. More than gaining MMR. I mean he says it himself : "I couldn't care less about MMR" (I think it was during the game where Purge forgot to actually be a coach and went on to play with Day9 instead). And I believe those words are genuine, he doesn't look to be trying hard to me. Just have a good time, and "improve". Not climbing the thing as fast as possible. | ||
|
Danzo
2820 Posts
On April 20 2017 02:17 Murlox wrote: My take on that : Day9 is getting old(er), he's running a company, a show. He's (passed?) not trying very hard, he's here to have fun and try to understand / mess around the Dota2 philosophy. More than gaining MMR. I mean he says it himself : "I couldn't care less about MMR" (I think it was during the game where Purge forgot to actually be a coach and went on to play with Day9 instead). And I believe those words are genuine, he doesn't look to be trying hard to me. Just have a good time, and "improve". Not climbing the thing as fast as possible. Except he's made a goal last week to get 3k pretty soon. | ||
|
InFiNitY[pG]
Germany3468 Posts
On April 20 2017 03:33 Danzo wrote: Except he's made a goal last week to get 3k pretty soon. That is hardly a goal. Noone is denying that he wants to improve, he just doesn't have any drive or motivation to actually be good at Dota, which is probably what people expected from this show. | ||
|
YourGoodFriend
United States2197 Posts
| ||
|
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
| ||
|
Danzo
2820 Posts
| ||
|
Jelissei
193 Posts
He explains quite often how he can only implement a few new things at once. In addition he doesn't read up on heroes and tactics online. I think it makes a lot of sense because Purge and Day 9 are producing a tutorial series with topics that build on each other. It is good for the show that he learns accordingly and doesn't use concepts that haven't been explained by Purge beforehand. For new players most helpful is probably the way he deals with difficulties. He doesn't hide them but answers them with an optimistic attitude. Very helpful to gain mmr! | ||
|
Wineandbread
United States2065 Posts
I think tt's starting to click for him that sometimes dota is not a pure efficiency game like starcraft | ||
|
sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
| ||
|
Mum_Chamber
Netherlands1 Post
With a stomping 60% winrate, you need 20 games to gain a mere 100 MMR, which is an entire week worth of games for most players (around 2-3 hours a day). Yes, you might win 4 consecutive games and climb 10 MMR, but there will be games when you lose 4 consecutive games and get back to where you were immediately. An average of 60% winrate usually means your initial MMR rating was off, rather than you developing over time. With a more realistic 55% winrate when you see people climb the latter by getting better, that's 40 games and two weeks worth of games.. for just 100 MMR. Climbing 1,000 MMR with that 55% winrate (which, again means you can somehow continue improving constantly) that's 400 games and 20 weeks at the minimum. 5 freaking months. Considering he is experimenting with roles and heroes he's not comfortable with, I think Sean's progression is very reasonable in 175 ranked games. To expect more was unrealistic to begin with. | ||
|
Logo
United States7542 Posts
On May 02 2017 22:55 Mum_Chamber wrote: I'm not sure if people are realizing how long it takes to climb up the MMR ladder. With a stomping 60% winrate, you need 20 games to gain a mere 100 MMR, which is an entire week worth of games for most players (around 2-3 hours a day). Yes, you might win 4 consecutive games and climb 10 MMR, but there will be games when you lose 4 consecutive games and get back to where you were immediately. An average of 60% winrate usually means your initial MMR rating was off, rather than you developing over time. With a more realistic 55% winrate when you see people climb the latter by getting better, that's 40 games and two weeks worth of games.. for just 100 MMR. Climbing 1,000 MMR with that 55% winrate (which, again means you can somehow continue improving constantly) that's 400 games and 20 weeks at the minimum. 5 freaking months. Considering he is experimenting with roles and heroes he's not comfortable with, I think Sean's progression is very reasonable in 175 ranked games. To expect more was unrealistic to begin with. Plus in general it would be pretty bad for him to spam game off stream and then show up every week playing significantly better. It ruins the tutorial aspect of the series a bit if you don't get to see Sean implementing the things Purge talks about step by step. | ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
| ||
|
Baradrist
Germany96 Posts
So considering that, I am actually quite impressed how good he is doing! I am playing Dota for maaaany many years. I still remember the time, when Lina and Prophet both had a global teleport and were quite alike (which to us ment in those days ... they would play the courier :D). The days when gold could be shared!! Imagine THAT. Hehe. ^^ I am so used to the 100+ heroes by now, I forgot how it feels to an outsider. It's just an overwhelming mass of things to learn! Heroes, mechanics, flaming, dealing with flame, etc. ... try to explain the game to your girlfriend while watching Major and you'll know what I mean. His tempo is exactly what new players need and more importantly, they need his insight, his bright spirit and his take on the games philosophy in order to stay with the game through the start ... they will learn everything else in their own time. I love the show for what it is. Not the "becoming a pro afap", but "XXX leans Dota with Day[9] and Purge". I already recommended it to some friends who just started playing and they found it quite helpful! PS: I also like that he learns all those things that one would need to cast/host future tournaments. He can be a great caster (in my opinion at least ... people seem to have different takes on that) and I would love to see him stay in the community. | ||
|
snow2.0
Germany2073 Posts
On April 20 2017 03:33 Danzo wrote: Except he's made a goal last week to get 3k pretty soon. that's not a real goal. He's almost 3k with 58% winrate. That's just "play a few more games". A goal for improvement needs to be something specific to focus on. | ||
|
Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
On May 18 2017 17:00 snow2.0 wrote: that's not a real goal. He's almost 3k with 58% winrate. That's just "play a few more games". A goal for improvement needs to be something specific to focus on. What? He's already 3k. I saw it on stream, he had 3042 mmr when he showed it. | ||
|
Logo
United States7542 Posts
| ||
|
Wineandbread
United States2065 Posts
It's been really insightful so far actually, even higher level players will probably get something out of this mid lesson if anyone is interested. (I don't think day9 is going to understand the concepts very well lol) | ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On July 13 2017 05:39 Wineandbread wrote: Blitz is coaching day9 for mid right now It's been really insightful so far actually, even higher level players will probably get something out of this mid lesson if anyone is interested. (I don't think day9 is going to understand the concepts very well lol) | ||
|
RuiBarbO
United States1340 Posts
| ||
|
YourGoodFriend
United States2197 Posts
| ||
|
HKTPZ
105 Posts
| ||
|
ahw
Canada1099 Posts
On July 27 2017 06:27 HKTPZ wrote: Just watched some of it live. Man I feel sorry for Sean for having such a clueless coach. He should be going over pro or at least high mmr replays with someone who actually has useful insight into how dota works - playing with and against super clueless people while being coached by someone so ignorant seems like a recipe for disaster. Are you referring to purge or blitz? Neither are top tier pros by any stretch of the imagination, but blitz is high 7k and purge is somewhere around 6k afaik. More than enough knowledge to coach a low 3k player like day9. | ||
|
Murlox
France1699 Posts
Just imagine this series with... I don't know, RTZ, EE, Sumail, Dendi... ? I mean, they sure are very knowledgable, but what matters is how able/willing you are to transfer that knowledge. That said, I wouldn't mind any of these 4 as "special guests", like Blitz did. | ||
|
Kyir
United States1047 Posts
| ||
|
sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On August 02 2017 21:49 Kyir wrote: Yeah, I think any problems with Day9's advancement is mostly linked to the fact that he really only plays one or two days a week. I always feel like garbage when I do that. I agree. I think he doesn't play enough and that's part of why he's stagnating just barely into 3k. He can't really go up at all anymore doing only 1-3 games a week. He's stuck in the 50% win-loss cycle unless he's stomping some normal mode but those matches are largely jokes. His ranked win % has sort of plateaued for the moment. He needs to do like 10 games a day every day no breaks stream for maybe a year or so before a lot of this advanced stuff will sink in. A lot of his coaches are giving him amazing advice but its advice I'd be giving to a 5k to move up to 6k. Sean needs a much more watered-down basic version of these mechanics because he still has glaring errors in those areas. | ||
| ||
