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"Day[9] Learns DotA" with Purge

Forum Index > The Tavern
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Aron Times
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States312 Posts
December 16 2016 19:51 GMT
#1
Day9 just announced on Reddit that he will be doing a series with Purge. Looks like the Day9 Daily is back but for DotA 2.

/r/dota2/ went crazy with hype. What do you folks think?
"The drums! The drums! The drums! The neverending drumbeat! Open me, you human fool! Open the light and summon me and receive my majesty!"
OmniEulogy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada6592 Posts
December 16 2016 22:57 GMT
#2
It should be interesting, I might watch a bit of it for old times sake lol
LiquidDota Staff
Murlox
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France1699 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-16 23:15:54
December 16 2016 23:11 GMT
#3
I used to really love the SCBW dailies, and early SC2 aswell.

I was still occasionnaly checking the dailies, but in time, all I ended up seeing was a fat lazy dude playing Hearthstone, and giggling to himself.

This move looks very opportunistic to me. Don't like it.
Resistance ain't futile
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
December 16 2016 23:45 GMT
#4
This is him talking about starting Dota a few months ago. He seems quite passionate about the game

Neosteel Enthusiast
Fr00zen
Profile Joined December 2011
Norway3 Posts
December 17 2016 16:07 GMT
#5
I don't see what's wrong with Day9 getting into the dota scene, why the negativity? Personally I'm pretty happy to see this happening. I guess he needed a new game to be involved with, seeing as that RTS he was working on didn't work out for him.
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
December 17 2016 19:00 GMT
#6
Ive always been a big day9 fan, and I think it's great that he is broadening his horizons. Let's face it, SC2 was a big letdown (but i still played aboit 3000 matches), and the DOTA scene just keeps growing. I think he sees an opportunity for his career AND he genuinely likes the game. Nothing wrong with that.
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
Jisira
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
470 Posts
December 17 2016 19:43 GMT
#7
Always going to have mad props for Sean, great to see him giving DotA a shot!
RuiBarbO
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
United States1340 Posts
December 17 2016 21:01 GMT
#8
On December 18 2016 01:07 Fr00zen wrote:
I don't see what's wrong with Day9 getting into the dota scene, why the negativity? Personally I'm pretty happy to see this happening. I guess he needed a new game to be involved with, seeing as that RTS he was working on didn't work out for him.


Lemme selectively quote what you said to make a point that's completely different from yours but still speaks to the answer I'd like to make to your question:

"...the dota scene, why the negativity?"

Boom.
Can someone please explain/how water falls with no rain?
Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2526 Posts
December 17 2016 21:31 GMT
#9
On December 18 2016 06:01 RuiBarbO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2016 01:07 Fr00zen wrote:
I don't see what's wrong with Day9 getting into the dota scene, why the negativity? Personally I'm pretty happy to see this happening. I guess he needed a new game to be involved with, seeing as that RTS he was working on didn't work out for him.


Lemme selectively quote what you said to make a point that's completely different from yours but still speaks to the answer I'd like to make to your question:

"...the dota scene, why the negativity?"

Boom.


Honestly this is what interests me most. Aside from when Day9's being heavily strategic/analytical, he comes across as a super lighthearted and goofy dude, which is at odds with the norm of Dota 2 culture. I'm curious to see which ends up winning that battle.
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3253 Posts
December 18 2016 03:17 GMT
#10
I kinda like this. We need someone in this game who picks the scrubs up and gives them hope. Most good people are a bit elitist about it and while "learn to farm" is often true, it's not really a roadmap to improvement. If day9 gets good that is, but he likely has what it takes.
low gravity, yes-yes!
hpty603
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States262 Posts
December 18 2016 06:10 GMT
#11
On December 17 2016 08:11 Murlox wrote:
I used to really love the SCBW dailies, and early SC2 aswell.

I was still occasionnaly checking the dailies, but in time, all I ended up seeing was a fat lazy dude playing Hearthstone, and giggling to himself.

This move looks very opportunistic to me. Don't like it.

Day9 is lazy? Granted I haven't watched him in a few years now since I got out of sc2, but good lord he was always insanely busy back then
I only play 2v2 to see how much of the map I can turn purple ~ Jinro
Jutranjo
Profile Joined October 2010
Slovenia140 Posts
December 18 2016 10:22 GMT
#12
This is going to be great.
cecek
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Czech Republic18921 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-19 00:56:01
December 19 2016 00:53 GMT
#13
On December 17 2016 08:11 Murlox wrote:
I used to really love the SCBW dailies, and early SC2 aswell.

I was still occasionnaly checking the dailies, but in time, all I ended up seeing was a fat lazy dude playing Hearthstone, and giggling to himself.

This move looks very opportunistic to me. Don't like it.

Oh, please. Committing to making a regular dota 2 content in 2016 is opportunistic? When he's already got a big following in hearthstone? That's the opposite to being opportunistic. He could jump at Overwatch if he wanted easy money.

Seriously, people will try to find something negative about anything,
super gg
Kuroeeah
Profile Blog Joined February 2013
11696 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-19 01:25:43
December 19 2016 01:21 GMT
#14
On December 19 2016 09:53 cecek wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2016 08:11 Murlox wrote:
I used to really love the SCBW dailies, and early SC2 aswell.

I was still occasionnaly checking the dailies, but in time, all I ended up seeing was a fat lazy dude playing Hearthstone, and giggling to himself.

This move looks very opportunistic to me. Don't like it.

Oh, please. Committing to making a regular dota 2 content in 2016 is opportunistic? When he's already got a big following in hearthstone? That's the opposite to being opportunistic. He could jump at Overwatch if he wanted easy money.

Seriously, people will try to find something negative about anything,

Yeah, I don't see this as being very opportunistic for Day 9. He could have easily done some content like "Day9 learns Overwatch" or "League with Day9" which is a safer bet to net views than if he jumped to DotA..

There are some valid criticisms people can have of day 9 but labelling him as a fat lazy dude seems more of a personal attack than anything.
Chewbacca.
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3634 Posts
December 19 2016 03:39 GMT
#15
Love Day9, so I'll probably watch a little every now and then, but I don't think watching a 2k player learn will be fun for long, even if it is Day9.
nanaoei
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
3358 Posts
December 19 2016 04:32 GMT
#16
On December 19 2016 10:21 Kuroeeah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2016 09:53 cecek wrote:
On December 17 2016 08:11 Murlox wrote:
I used to really love the SCBW dailies, and early SC2 aswell.

I was still occasionnaly checking the dailies, but in time, all I ended up seeing was a fat lazy dude playing Hearthstone, and giggling to himself.

This move looks very opportunistic to me. Don't like it.

Oh, please. Committing to making a regular dota 2 content in 2016 is opportunistic? When he's already got a big following in hearthstone? That's the opposite to being opportunistic. He could jump at Overwatch if he wanted easy money.

Seriously, people will try to find something negative about anything,

Yeah, I don't see this as being very opportunistic for Day 9. He could have easily done some content like "Day9 learns Overwatch" or "League with Day9" which is a safer bet to net views than if he jumped to DotA..

There are some valid criticisms people can have of day 9 but labelling him as a fat lazy dude seems more of a personal attack than anything.


don't think either of those games are his style, and he did try learning heroes of the storm, because, at the time, blizzard.
it's smart to be opportunistic. he does this stuff for a living and his brand has fallen out of favor for a lot of his older viewers who did not follow him to hearthstone.
*@boesthius' FF7 nostalgia stream bomb* "we should work on a 'Final Progamer' fangame»whitera can be a protagonist---lastlie: "we save world and then defense it"
Kuroeeah
Profile Blog Joined February 2013
11696 Posts
December 19 2016 05:36 GMT
#17
On December 19 2016 13:32 nanaoei wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2016 10:21 Kuroeeah wrote:
On December 19 2016 09:53 cecek wrote:
On December 17 2016 08:11 Murlox wrote:
I used to really love the SCBW dailies, and early SC2 aswell.

I was still occasionnaly checking the dailies, but in time, all I ended up seeing was a fat lazy dude playing Hearthstone, and giggling to himself.

This move looks very opportunistic to me. Don't like it.

Oh, please. Committing to making a regular dota 2 content in 2016 is opportunistic? When he's already got a big following in hearthstone? That's the opposite to being opportunistic. He could jump at Overwatch if he wanted easy money.

Seriously, people will try to find something negative about anything,

Yeah, I don't see this as being very opportunistic for Day 9. He could have easily done some content like "Day9 learns Overwatch" or "League with Day9" which is a safer bet to net views than if he jumped to DotA..

There are some valid criticisms people can have of day 9 but labelling him as a fat lazy dude seems more of a personal attack than anything.


don't think either of those games are his style, and he did try learning heroes of the storm, because, at the time, blizzard.
it's smart to be opportunistic. he does this stuff for a living and his brand has fallen out of favor for a lot of his older viewers who did not follow him to hearthstone.

it doesn't matter if it's his style or not, im sure his brand is probably more recognized than starcraft itself sadly. he'll get the traction playing just about anything because of how well established he is.
Murlox
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France1699 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-19 17:49:47
December 19 2016 17:42 GMT
#18
On December 19 2016 10:21 Kuroeeah wrote:
There are some valid criticisms people can have of day 9 but labelling him as a fat lazy dude seems more of a personal attack than anything.


Well it is personal but I mean his show is very centered around himself. If you don't like a comedian (or what he became), you probably won't go to his stand up.

As for an attack, who am I to attack Day9. Can you really attack someone when they have no clue of your existence. Imagine an ant, somewhere, calling me a lazy dude. I couldn't care less. And this ant meant no harm, she simply has been watching me, and dislikes what she sees now.

That was basically my post.

Also I don't try to be negative, I'm just conveying the negative impression his content left me with over the years, altogether my doubts on this particular move.
Resistance ain't futile
Murlox
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France1699 Posts
December 19 2016 18:09 GMT
#19
On December 19 2016 13:32 nanaoei wrote:
don't think either of those games are his style, and he did try learning heroes of the storm, because, at the time, blizzard.


Basically this, too. I wouldn't say style, I would say... league?

I mean the guy is born and raised into starcraft, he breathes starcraft. He IS starcraft. And he was (seemingly, I'd imagine) willing to put a crazy amount of prep work into each dailies, which were presented brilliantly. The guy is brilliant, knowledgable, entertaining, interesting... I don't know, bold. This was very humbling, thank you Day9.

And then, fast forward quite a bit, all I see is a fat lazy dude playing heartstone (I don't mean to hammer it, it's just... to catch up with my previous post). Where is Day9.

So yeah, put this new Day9 into a gender he was not raised in, well, I don't know. I feel like this is just a variation of Day9 play heartstone, now Day9 plays Dota2, tomorrow Day9 teaches you how to cook. I am not hyped.

Sorry for long posts, just felt like clarifying. I wish him the best anyway, probably without me.
Resistance ain't futile
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
December 19 2016 22:52 GMT
#20
man u sound depressed
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Bommes
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1226 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-20 15:04:00
December 20 2016 15:01 GMT
#21
Sounds great to me. Dunno if I'll watch it, maybe a little bit if I can stand watching a 2k player without going crazy since I can't backseat game him :D
Byyk
Profile Joined December 2004
457 Posts
December 20 2016 15:38 GMT
#22
Day9 early dailies are great and I am happy that he is joining dota 2 scene. Welcome Day9!
Ma Jae Yoon, sAviOr, the greatest player of all time.
PoulsenB
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland7710 Posts
December 20 2016 15:53 GMT
#23
This is great, his dailies helped me a lot in my SC2 day, maybe he'll help me to get out of the trench finally ;]
IdrA fan forever <3 || the clueless one || Marci must be protected at all costs
Jaaaaasper
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States10225 Posts
December 21 2016 01:19 GMT
#24
day9 is awesome, I'm super hyped. Hes been one of the few esports personalities I've been willing to follow from game to game, and now hes coming to me.
Hey do you want to hear a joke? Chinese production value. | I thought he had a aegis- Ayesee | When did 7ing mad last have a good game, 2012?
Merany
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France890 Posts
December 21 2016 11:57 GMT
#25
Will definitely watch, day9 is the reason I was even remotely decent at SC2, can most likely improve from it!
Silan
Profile Joined January 2010
Denmark198 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-21 21:17:42
December 21 2016 21:17 GMT
#26
Anyone questioning him or his thoughts should really listen to the embedded video on page 1, he explains exactly why i love Dota and why this make sense to him in particular.
Life is one crushing defeat after another until you just wish flanders was dead. - Homer
schmitty9800
Profile Joined August 2010
United States390 Posts
December 24 2016 14:32 GMT
#27
On December 22 2016 06:17 Silan wrote:
Anyone questioning him or his thoughts should really listen to the embedded video on page 1, he explains exactly why i love Dota and why this make sense to him in particular.

Agreed, I really question that person saying that it's an opportunistic move...if someone really wanted to jump on a most popular game for streaming numbers I'd think Overwatch or League would be a better move.
Murlox
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France1699 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-05 22:45:22
January 05 2017 22:22 GMT
#28
Sure, what is your question?

I don't believe a move has to be the best one (or even a good one) to qualify as opportunistic. According to freedictionnary.com :

Opportunistic : Taking immediate advantage, often unethically, of any circumstance of possible benefit.

Possible benefit -> check
any circumstances -> sort of check
often unethically -> that's the big one, let's keep it for later
immediate advantage -> not checked

Personnally, I don't think the move is ethical. I don't like it. To me, dota is a game you grew with, you learned and loved 10 years ago. Then you have a legitimacy to talk about it. You don't just show up after patch 7.00 and end up with "hey, let me lecture you about the intricacies of this game" - remember when Totalbiscuit decided to jump in the SC wagon and cast SC2? I like the guy, but that... is not enough. It was terrible, imo.

Because that's what I feel is going to happen when I read about Day9 coming to Dota2. I mean, he is known for his casting, analysis, humour... I cannot see him refrain his self and stay a humble pupil very long. Basically what I'm seeing is a move toward a Dota2 casting/personality seat - the fact that his name was mentioned for Boston Major hosting probably helps that sentiment - and that feels wrong to me.

It's like breakycpk (most famous HoN casters for many years), he's now getting closer to dota2, casting matches, making videos about his thoughts on ppd recent w/e and so on. It just feels off to me, forced, awkward, I don't know. At least the guy was pioneering HoN casting, remained a staple figure for many years. Day9 doesn't have any experience, nor demonstrated any interest in the moba gender... ever?

In the end, a man has to eat and who am I to judge? Well I'm me, and I don't like those moves, they seem opportunistic to me. Despite them not being immediate, so I guess ~75% opportunistic -_-


That said, I could be totally wrong on the caster/personality thing (for Day9 anyway, I think Breaky's intentions are quite clear), in which case my comment doesn't stand. A man can play/stream w/e the hell he wants, I see no problem with that!
Resistance ain't futile
Chewbacca.
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3634 Posts
January 05 2017 23:53 GMT
#29
I fail to see how him not growing up playing Dota, and now wanting to become involved, can possibly be considered unethical. If he tries to jump in and start lecturing people on the finer points of Dota while still being a 2k player, that is silly, but not unethical.

This show is also about him being lectured on how to play, not about him lecturing..
ASoo
Profile Joined November 2010
2864 Posts
January 06 2017 00:33 GMT
#30
On January 06 2017 08:53 Chewbacca. wrote:
I fail to see how him not growing up playing Dota, and now wanting to become involved, can possibly be considered unethical. If he tries to jump in and start lecturing people on the finer points of Dota while still being a 2k player, that is silly, but not unethical.

This show is also about him being lectured on how to play, not about him lecturing..

something something gatekeeping something

HOW DARE THESE PLEBS ENJOY SOMETHING THAT I ALSO ENJOY WITHOUT HAVING INVESTED AS MUCH TIME AND LOVE INTO IT AS I HAVE?
Odawg27
Profile Joined January 2011
United States191 Posts
January 06 2017 01:07 GMT
#31
+ Show Spoiler +
On January 06 2017 07:22 Murlox wrote:
Sure, what is your question?

I don't believe a move has to be the best one (or even a good one) to qualify as opportunistic. According to freedictionnary.com :

Opportunistic : Taking immediate advantage, often unethically, of any circumstance of possible benefit.

Possible benefit -> check
any circumstances -> sort of check
often unethically -> that's the big one, let's keep it for later
immediate advantage -> not checked

Personnally, I don't think the move is ethical. I don't like it. To me, dota is a game you grew with, you learned and loved 10 years ago. Then you have a legitimacy to talk about it. You don't just show up after patch 7.00 and end up with "hey, let me lecture you about the intricacies of this game" - remember when Totalbiscuit decided to jump in the SC wagon and cast SC2? I like the guy, but that... is not enough. It was terrible, imo.

Because that's what I feel is going to happen when I read about Day9 coming to Dota2. I mean, he is known for his casting, analysis, humour... I cannot see him refrain his self and stay a humble pupil very long. Basically what I'm seeing is a move toward a Dota2 casting/personality seat - the fact that his name was mentioned for Boston Major hosting probably helps that sentiment - and that feels wrong to me.

It's like breakycpk (most famous HoN casters for many years), he's now getting closer to dota2, casting matches, making videos about his thoughts on ppd recent w/e and so on. It just feels off to me, forced, awkward, I don't know. At least the guy was pioneering HoN casting, remained a staple figure for many years. Day9 doesn't have any experience, nor demonstrated any interest in the moba gender... ever?

In the end, a man has to eat and who am I to judge? Well I'm me, and I don't like those moves, they seem opportunistic to me. Despite them not being immediate, so I guess ~75% opportunistic -_-


That said, I could be totally wrong on the caster/personality thing (for Day9 anyway, I think Breaky's intentions are quite clear), in which case my comment doesn't stand. A man can play/stream w/e the hell he wants, I see no problem with that!



I don't know if I understand the issue. I think you're trying to say it would be unfair and wrong if Day[9] without properly demonstrating his ability or understanding of the game was brought to the front of the line for analysts or personalities of Dota 2, just because he's Day[9] and showing up/interest.

I'll agree with you on that point (if that is your point). But you seem to extend that into a very high bar that only people who have been with the game since it came out can do this. That's quite a limiting factor and is in my opinion a wrong idea to hold. Without the outside influence of team managers who started with other games or players who brought their unique experience to the table, Dota 2 would not evolve at nearly the pace it does. N0tail was pretty well known in HoN before coming to Dota if memory serves. Do his achievements or impact on the game as well as the other players coming from other games not count or should be seen as not "true" Dota.

Here's the thing, this isn't "unethical" at all. Day[9] has shown, while he's a very energetic and rambunctious personality, he's also very professional when the situation calls for it from his days of casting SC2. The moral part of it really doesn't seem to come into effect here. He's not calling for teams to replace their coach or players with him. He's not whining about not being a caster or personality or analyst at any events. He's not holding anything over events or teams or sponsors in some sort of blackmail attempt to get himself further into Dota 2.

Is he starting a new series with a popular moba, possibly in an attempt to get more viewers and variety on his streams? It seems to be. Is there anything at all wrong with that? No. Just because a shop decides to start selling a popular item it hasn't before, doesn't make it unethical or wrong. You're more than welcome to hold to your opinion that only the originators can truly be Dota 2 players/analysts/fans/hosts/monetary streamers. as I stated above, I think that's incorrect. Day[9] has been playing the game for months before this announcement, learning the ropes before patch 7.00. He also says he enjoys the game and it seems like he wishes to dive into it and really learn it from the ground up and Purge is giving him this chance.

Sure, if Day[9] comes off as all-knowing and condescending during the streams that's different. But even if you don't like his Hearthstone (comic routine as you called it in an earlier post), I don't think you can really comment on him coming in and lecturing about the intricacies of the game. He's stated this is a learning experience for him and is going to try and sponge up the knowledge, have fun and entertain his viewers. I can't see a single thing wrong with that or see any inkling he's going to be a know-it-all to any Dota 2 veterans. There's not even anything wrong or unethical about that. I think it will be a turn-off to most of his viewers who come to watch him have fun and be nice.

I really think your issue is this, You're concerned because of his name recognition he'll knock other caster/personalities out of spots they've earned when he hasn't. But that hasn't happened yet. Not only that, if Day[9] does show an aptitude for the game, picking up the ropes and learning the intricacies while putting in tons of effort to learn, why shouldn't he be offered a spot if he's earned it too. If this happens (I tend to think it probably will happen) and he chooses to put out well-informed, interesting and helpful dailies on Dota 2, while casting and analyzing, that will be a good thing for Dota. I don't see how it couldn't.
And then.... Trumpets
Jaaaaasper
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States10225 Posts
January 06 2017 04:48 GMT
#32
Yeah this feels like some fandom purity test thing, and thats just dumb
Hey do you want to hear a joke? Chinese production value. | I thought he had a aegis- Ayesee | When did 7ing mad last have a good game, 2012?
acie
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States247 Posts
January 06 2017 06:13 GMT
#33
arguing that making some dota2 videos is unethical is the stupidest thing I've heard in a while, thanks.

just because you say "who am i to judge?" doesn't excuse the fact that you are actually being a judgmental cunt
Gimpb
Profile Joined August 2010
293 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-07 02:40:12
January 07 2017 02:39 GMT
#34
Awesome news!
Have typically enjoyed his content well after I stopped enjoying the game he was playing

The thing that's made him great at what he does is he's a brilliant entertainer, not his analytical prowess. This is true for all sports personalities, they are valued because they are good entertainers. That's not so say he doesn't know his stuff, he often does, and he also tends to know when he doesn't as well.

Some personalities do use technical understanding as a tool to help them do their thing. That said, the real technical experts in any mature sports scene probably spend their time buried in modelinand statistical calculations few people have the knowledge to understand and seeking inside information that is not publicly available. Those are not the people you see on TV or a stream. In fact, much of the reason their work is valuable is because of its private nature.
Belha
Profile Joined December 2010
Italy2850 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-07 08:11:20
January 07 2017 08:10 GMT
#35
On December 17 2016 08:11 Murlox wrote:
I used to really love the SCBW dailies, and early SC2 aswell.....

.....This move looks very opportunistic to me. Don't like it.


This.

I loved his SC shows as well, but always hated his completely lack of criticism towards the clear flaws in the game, that eventually led it to the pseudo dead game (popular and competitive wise) that is today. Such AMAZING franchise that got millions of players from the get go, but went to the abandon due to awful design flaws.
Now, Day9. Zero critisism. So you love the game as it is, right? "Passion"...
Flash foward: Sc2 popularity and competitive scene: dead.
Day9? Abandon ship, going to the next popular game...
Yeah, passion...


Chicken gank op
Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2526 Posts
January 07 2017 09:42 GMT
#36
You cynical dinguses just look dumb, to me. It's like SC2 or Day9 personally hurt you somehow, and you're uncertain how to deal with those festering wounds.

The dude has a community and viewerbase that is largely, at this point, casual-competitive gamers. His content in the last few years is largely funday monday-like goofy shenanigans through hearthstone, random adventure game or silly dating sim game or whatever things he has on his youtube channel. Going to dota 2 is definitely not an "Oh hey I'd better make money off of this immensely popular game" anywhere near as much as it seems to be an avenue for competitive outlet for a man who has clearly shown in the past that he craves such competitive outlet.
Jelissei
Profile Joined June 2012
193 Posts
January 07 2017 11:44 GMT
#37
On January 07 2017 17:10 Belha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2016 08:11 Murlox wrote:
I used to really love the SCBW dailies, and early SC2 aswell.....

.....This move looks very opportunistic to me. Don't like it.


This.

I loved his SC shows as well, but always hated his completely lack of criticism towards the clear flaws in the game, that eventually led it to the pseudo dead game (popular and competitive wise) that is today.
(...)



I hope I'm misunderstanding you, but are you making day9 responsible for Blizzards crappy game development / marketing / decisions?

That would be really weird.

---------------------

And looking at the argument he should've grown up with dota to be (ethically) allowed to make videos about the game...

... are you frikkin' serious? The only persons (that are making content today) I can remember starting with dota (around 2008-2009) are:
LD, Luminous, Tobi, Purge, Merlini and the sorts. A large minority of todays dota personalities!


How would one grow dota with such an elitist attitude?
Murlox
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France1699 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-07 14:52:53
January 07 2017 14:52 GMT
#38
On January 07 2017 20:44 Jelissei wrote:
How would one grow dota with such an elitist attitude?


There's probably many people who were around at this time / who've been interested in dota for more than a few months.

But it's turning into speculation now. I just don't like the move, and it's only my opinion, nothing that will affect... anyone. So some of you should probably relax, no need to resort to insults or anything, you are indeed free not to share my views.

@Odawg27 Thanks for your post. You make some good points. In essence, it's not that I'm concerned for other people, it's more that... to put it bluntly, I've been disappointed by Day9, over the last couple of years ("all i'm seeing is a fat lazy dude playing heartstone while giggling to himself" was my post, not comic routine, which would have been much nicer I guess :s).

But you know what they say, you can only get disappointed by people you (used to) value. I really enjoyed early Day9. I will check the videos, hopefully he gets his flame back.
Resistance ain't futile
Taters_
Profile Joined September 2012
Finland123 Posts
January 09 2017 15:45 GMT
#39
On January 07 2017 23:52 Murlox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2017 20:44 Jelissei wrote:
How would one grow dota with such an elitist attitude?


There's probably many people who were around at this time / who've been interested in dota for more than a few months.

But it's turning into speculation now. I just don't like the move, and it's only my opinion, nothing that will affect... anyone. So some of you should probably relax, no need to resort to insults or anything, you are indeed free not to share my views.

@Odawg27 Thanks for your post. You make some good points. In essence, it's not that I'm concerned for other people, it's more that... to put it bluntly, I've been disappointed by Day9, over the last couple of years ("all i'm seeing is a fat lazy dude playing heartstone while giggling to himself" was my post, not comic routine, which would have been much nicer I guess :s).

But you know what they say, you can only get disappointed by people you (used to) value. I really enjoyed early Day9. I will check the videos, hopefully he gets his flame back.


Actually the reason he stopped making sc2 content was because at the time he was working on the game and didn't have time to prep his shows properly and didn't want to put out half-assed shows. He picked up hearthstone for the same reason as he didn't want to stop streaming and to him hearthstone didn't require the prep so he could just open the stream and jump into it.
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-09 19:09:17
January 09 2017 16:37 GMT
#40
if he keeps the same attitude and sense of humor he had during his sc dailies, i think it will get a lot of viewers. i could watch him play anything if hes in a funny mood (all i can remember is a player named after a phone manufacturer that he mocked and i laughed till i cried. im optimistic about his ability to learn and to entertain. glad he moved away from sc2 and hearth. both bad games imo.

edit: UNIIIIIDEEEEEEN
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
cecek
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Czech Republic18921 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-09 17:22:08
January 09 2017 17:20 GMT
#41
You guys are the biggest elitist shits I've ever seen, rofl.

Let's just look at this. He's starting a regular Dota 2 show in 2017. The show will take A LOT of effort to make (schedule to keep, prepare, cooperate with purge, etc.). At the same time, he could easily just stream Hearthstone (where he already has an established fanbase) with a fraction of the effort and likely get more viewers than this thing. Or he could get into Overwatch while it still is in the honeymoon period. Which would even be in line with his Blizzard games fanbase. Or literally anything fucking else. Day9 is entertaining on stream, he could make Minecraft Let's PLays and make more money than doing this.

Seriously, how you cynical fuckers can call this opportunistic is beyond me.
super gg
smilingjuggernaut
Profile Joined November 2016
74 Posts
January 09 2017 18:23 GMT
#42
On January 10 2017 02:20 cecek wrote:
You guys are the biggest elitist shits I've ever seen, rofl.

Let's just look at this. He's starting a regular Dota 2 show in 2017. The show will take A LOT of effort to make (schedule to keep, prepare, cooperate with purge, etc.). At the same time, he could easily just stream Hearthstone (where he already has an established fanbase) with a fraction of the effort and likely get more viewers than this thing. Or he could get into Overwatch while it still is in the honeymoon period. Which would even be in line with his Blizzard games fanbase. Or literally anything fucking else. Day9 is entertaining on stream, he could make Minecraft Let's PLays and make more money than doing this.

Seriously, how you cynical fuckers can call this opportunistic is beyond me.

Well, the word opportunistic is pretty innocent isnt it? Just means to take advantage of favorable circumstances to do whatever you wanted to do. Maybe you're reading judgemental connotation into a word where none was meant. Or maybe people are judgemental. Who knows XD
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
January 10 2017 00:30 GMT
#43
On January 10 2017 03:23 smilingjuggernaut wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2017 02:20 cecek wrote:
You guys are the biggest elitist shits I've ever seen, rofl.

Let's just look at this. He's starting a regular Dota 2 show in 2017. The show will take A LOT of effort to make (schedule to keep, prepare, cooperate with purge, etc.). At the same time, he could easily just stream Hearthstone (where he already has an established fanbase) with a fraction of the effort and likely get more viewers than this thing. Or he could get into Overwatch while it still is in the honeymoon period. Which would even be in line with his Blizzard games fanbase. Or literally anything fucking else. Day9 is entertaining on stream, he could make Minecraft Let's PLays and make more money than doing this.

Seriously, how you cynical fuckers can call this opportunistic is beyond me.

Well, the word opportunistic is pretty innocent isnt it? Just means to take advantage of favorable circumstances to do whatever you wanted to do. Maybe you're reading judgemental connotation into a word where none was meant. Or maybe people are judgemental. Who knows XD

there is no way u can argue that the word opportunistic doesnt have negative connotations to it

especially when most dictionary definitions are
"Exploiting immediate opportunities, especially regardless of planning or principle"
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
giftdgecko
Profile Joined February 2011
United States2126 Posts
January 10 2017 03:41 GMT
#44
I'm kinda hoping this is Day9 bringing personality to purge. Like go through a replay and do his pause and "let's think" discussing decisions. He can start small with csing under towers and eventually move into when to group and drafting. Day9 was great at looking at both the technical and decision making involved in SC and I feel like it can translate really well if he applies himself with the same passion. Plus if slacks can succeed with this game, Day9 can.
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-12 23:06:14
January 10 2017 18:44 GMT
#45
Everyone please remain seated , this cup of tea is going through some turbulence.
I think esports is pretty nice.
TheTrenchTier
Profile Joined October 2016
21 Posts
January 10 2017 19:17 GMT
#46
On January 07 2017 17:10 Belha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2016 08:11 Murlox wrote:
I used to really love the SCBW dailies, and early SC2 aswell.....

.....This move looks very opportunistic to me. Don't like it.


This.

I loved his SC shows as well, but always hated his completely lack of criticism towards the clear flaws in the game, that eventually led it to the pseudo dead game (popular and competitive wise) that is today. Such AMAZING franchise that got millions of players from the get go, but went to the abandon due to awful design flaws.
Now, Day9. Zero critisism. So you love the game as it is, right? "Passion"...
Flash foward: Sc2 popularity and competitive scene: dead.
Day9? Abandon ship, going to the next popular game...
Yeah, passion...




Day9 stopped doing dailies because he got a full-time job as a game designer for Artillery Games. As Day9 explained many times through his daily making career, he spent many hours preparing dailies, it was like a full-time job for him. So when he got a full time job with Artillery Games, he no longer had time to prepare dailies. So he started streaming Hearthstone because it didn't require extensive preparation. Day9's show was a strategy based show, meant to teach you STRATEGY on how to play Starcraft 2 better. If you wanted to watch someone complain about the game 24/7, you could go watch Avilo. How people get off insinuating him having interest in another game is somehow negatively opportunistic is absolutely insane, especially since he left Artillery Games a while ago. How is this any different from Redeye hosting less SC2 to host Dota 2 without having been part of the communtiy for years and years.
Baradrist
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany96 Posts
January 11 2017 12:33 GMT
#47
I loved Day9's dailys and I will surely love this show. Just because he is a very entertaining and despite his success (both ingame during "his days" as well as on his many shows) somehow genuine and down to earth person. I seldomly saw such a fundamentally positive player/caster/"talent" (I don't like the last word in this usage ... but w/e :D).

Him coming to Dota is definatelly a win for the community. His views on strategy can certainly add more depth to how the game is played. A fresh, but experienced mind in Dota? Why not?? I mean ... I don't think he will become a top player or anything, but a really good caster and/or panel guy? Sounds great to me.

I will follow him on his path. And maybe many more SC2 players get attracted to our game as well because of him? Cool! A larger player base just means that I will have to argue less with LOL players about which game is better, because their main (and only? :D) point is usually that more people play LOL. Hehe. Bring the numbers in, Day[9]!!!
Pontual
Profile Joined October 2016
Brazil3038 Posts
January 11 2017 15:20 GMT
#48
On January 11 2017 21:33 Baradrist wrote:
I loved Day9's dailys and I will surely love this show. Just because he is a very entertaining and despite his success (both ingame during "his days" as well as on his many shows) somehow genuine and down to earth person. I seldomly saw such a fundamentally positive player/caster/"talent" (I don't like the last word in this usage ... but w/e :D).

Him coming to Dota is definatelly a win for the community. His views on strategy can certainly add more depth to how the game is played. A fresh, but experienced mind in Dota? Why not?? I mean ... I don't think he will become a top player or anything, but a really good caster and/or panel guy? Sounds great to me.

I will follow him on his path. And maybe many more SC2 players get attracted to our game as well because of him? Cool! A larger player base just means that I will have to argue less with LOL players about which game is better, because their main (and only? :D) point is usually that more people play LOL. Hehe. Bring the numbers in, Day[9]!!!

That's an optmistic view i would say. What probably will happen is that he'll make vids, he'll not add any depth to the game, might enlighten bad players, but it'll not make a difference in any place's pubs. If he get to be a regular talent in lans it'll be good for his fans and meh for whoever else. If he manages to get some people to play dota it'll be nothing too much, maybe 35k players start playing because of him but that's whatever.
All in all, it'll be new dota content, maybe a new face in lans. Nothing past this.
TheRubicon
Profile Joined February 2013
United States1342 Posts
January 11 2017 20:40 GMT
#49
i just read this forum article, why is everyone so negative? who cares about impact on pubs, he's a freaking genious/great character. even if i only learn a handful of ideas/tricks (which im thinking it wont be handful, more like backpacks (see what i did there)), it will be to everyones benefit.

you cant ask to climb a mountain without starting at the bottom - lighten up people and embrace what is to come
Shock710
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia6097 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-12 11:01:05
January 12 2017 10:53 GMT
#50
its not everyone its pretty much Murlox.

Redeye is like now the go to host for professional attitude and presentation, he did mainly pure SC2 for quite a while. He switched to Dota2 with basically zero game knowledge and he's now regarded as one of the better and more enjoyable hosts.
Day9 isnt even getting anything out of this right now expect some viewers on his stream that he would probably normally get, its not like hes said "hey im jumping into dota please throw money and casting opportunities at me!"
If you listen to him talk about dota hes been privately playing atm and just enjoying a new style of mechanics and how its cool. He just wants to improve at a hard game thats pretty much why he loved broodwar.

Even if he eventually gets casting opportunities, who the fuck cares, it will be because the fans want it.
dAPhREAk gives Shock a * | [23:55] <Shock710> that was out of context -_- [16:26] <@motbob> Good question, Shock!
Silan
Profile Joined January 2010
Denmark198 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-12 15:44:14
January 12 2017 15:29 GMT
#51
On January 12 2017 00:20 Pontual wrote:
That's an optmistic view i would say. What probably will happen is that he'll make vids, he'll not add any depth to the game, might enlighten bad players, but it'll not make a difference in any place's pubs. If he get to be a regular talent in lans it'll be good for his fans and meh for whoever else. If he manages to get some people to play dota it'll be nothing too much, maybe 35k players start playing because of him but that's whatever.
All in all, it'll be new dota content, maybe a new face in lans. Nothing past this.


Thats a pessimistic view i would say :D.

People severely underestimate what it takes to be one of the best starcraft players in the foreign scene. Look at me vs day9:

Day9: 100 hours of dota (guess)
Me: 4000 hours
Day9: Years of experience competing at the highest level
Me: 0 experience.

Its the same when Kasper Hvidt (one of the greatest handball goalkeepers ever) wants to help counter-strike players perform their best. He doesn't know shit about CS (compared to the pros) but he has a lot of experience in competition, and that experience is super valuable for Astralis and the other players.

Day9 probably won't tell me anything mechanical about Dota2 that i dont know already, but he very likely will help me gain different perspective on different parts of the game which in turn helps me improve as a player.

Also, this is Day9 and Purge, two pretty big community figures, if they make a show that blows up, the effect could be noticeable. Of course its not going to double the player count after 3 shows, but i think a lot of us kept playing SC2 ladder because of his dailies and fundays ect, probably more then people realize.

Also, if you still haven't seen Day9 talk about Dota2, you should watch some of the videos. He is shining, and to get his massive sincere enthusiasm in Dota2 is certainly good for everyone (besides the haters, but who cares about them).
Life is one crushing defeat after another until you just wish flanders was dead. - Homer
Pontual
Profile Joined October 2016
Brazil3038 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-12 15:52:39
January 12 2017 15:49 GMT
#52
I saw a couple of vids of him talking about dota 2, is really exciting to hear this from a newcomer, made me feel proud about the game, in a certain way. And i'm excited for his series with purge. But my view is based on how series with sunsfan and synderen affected the comunity: 0 impact.
Of course Day9 is more entertaining and he has an actual fanbase, so i'm expecting to whoever watch this videos learn how to pull and how to read map, but those probably won't be that many.
My perspective is about the full dota scene, but personally i'm excited and probably will improve watching it. Just not expecting a revolution from it.

my previous post was pretty much out of this:
On January 11 2017 21:33 Baradrist wrote:

"Him coming to Dota is definatelly a win for the community. His views on strategy can certainly add more depth to how the game is played. A fresh, but experienced mind in Dota? Why not?? I mean ... I don't think he will become a top player or anything, but a really good caster and/or panel guy? Sounds great to me.

I will follow him on his path. And maybe many more SC2 players get attracted to our game as well because of him? Cool! A larger player base just means that I will have to argue less with LOL players about which game is better, because their main (and only? :D) point is usually that more people play LOL. Hehe. Bring the numbers in, Day[9]!!!"
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-12 16:18:14
January 12 2017 15:59 GMT
#53
The outgroup derogation in this thread is just sad and reflective of the current state of this community. Strange to see someone who's come from the community (Teamliquid no less) is being met with so much skepticism for no valid reason.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
January 12 2017 17:08 GMT
#54
On January 13 2017 00:59 Torte de Lini wrote:
The outgroup derogation in this thread is just sad and reflective of the current state of this community. Strange to see someone who's come from the community (Teamliquid no less) is being met with so much skepticism for no valid reason.

implying there's significant crossover between the liquiddota community and teamliquid
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Pontual
Profile Joined October 2016
Brazil3038 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-12 17:53:18
January 12 2017 17:52 GMT
#55
Learned what is derogation today
Don't think this thread can be considered a reflection of the state of the community. Mostly because the skeptical ones are at most, a dozen of scrubs.
mutantmagnet
Profile Joined June 2009
United States3789 Posts
January 12 2017 19:23 GMT
#56
On January 13 2017 02:52 Pontual wrote:
Learned what is derogation today
Don't think this thread can be considered a reflection of the state of the community. Mostly because the skeptical ones are at most, a dozen of scrubs.



Well the scrubs have dominated the mood of this thread. They need a time out.
Garrl
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Scotland1972 Posts
January 15 2017 17:56 GMT
#57
On December 20 2016 03:09 Murlox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2016 13:32 nanaoei wrote:
don't think either of those games are his style, and he did try learning heroes of the storm, because, at the time, blizzard.


Basically this, too. I wouldn't say style, I would say... league?

I mean the guy is born and raised into starcraft, he breathes starcraft. He IS starcraft. And he was (seemingly, I'd imagine) willing to put a crazy amount of prep work into each dailies, which were presented brilliantly. The guy is brilliant, knowledgable, entertaining, interesting... I don't know, bold. This was very humbling, thank you Day9.

And then, fast forward quite a bit, all I see is a fat lazy dude playing heartstone (I don't mean to hammer it, it's just... to catch up with my previous post). Where is Day9.

So yeah, put this new Day9 into a gender he was not raised in, well, I don't know. I feel like this is just a variation of Day9 play heartstone, now Day9 plays Dota2, tomorrow Day9 teaches you how to cook. I am not hyped.

Sorry for long posts, just felt like clarifying. I wish him the best anyway, probably without me.


"lazy" - he was streaming 4 times a week while working a fulltime job at artillery games for over 2 years.

tbh i cant see how day9 wouldnt be a perfect fit into dota 2, the same strategic principles applied in starcraft can easily be carried over to dota, just, similar to starcraft again, you need to pass a mechanical and knowledge boundary (macro/micro/positioning -> CSing/item+hero knowledge/positioning etc) to be able to apply those effectively
VGhost
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3613 Posts
January 15 2017 22:13 GMT
#58
On January 12 2017 00:20 Pontual wrote:
That's an optmistic view i would say. What probably will happen is that he'll make vids, he'll not add any depth to the game, might enlighten bad players, but it'll not make a difference in any place's pubs. If he get to be a regular talent in lans it'll be good for his fans and meh for whoever else. If he manages to get some people to play dota it'll be nothing too much, maybe 35k players start playing because of him but that's whatever.
All in all, it'll be new dota content, maybe a new face in lans. Nothing past this.


I'm not even a DOTA player (I mean this literally: I've fiddled with some of the tutorials, but that's it). I simply don't have the time between work and other hobbies. But I like watching the game.

Years ago I was a half-decent BW player, but beyond the campaigns really never got into SC2 - but Day[9] I know and I'm looking forward to what he'll do, even though I've already started watching DOTA pretty regularly

Here's what I'm getting at: The more the scene denigrates and abuses "n00bs" and "casuals" and so forth, the more you're going to turn people away and the smaller and less relevant the game stays. Watching streams, for instance, it's a big turn off to see people asking to report players just for playing badly in pub games. I get it's a team game and getting a doofus on your team is frustrating, but what exactly are you trying to accomplish here? That's not helping anything, that's just throwing a tantrum because your special self didn't get the result you wanted.

What I'm saying is I'm baffled by you and others treating it like a bad or irrelevant thing that Day[9] will (you're assuming) cater to the casual fan. For the good of the game, shouldn't that be a good thing?
#4427 || I am not going to scan a ferret.
RuiBarbO
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
United States1340 Posts
January 15 2017 23:02 GMT
#59
Omg this conversation is STILL going on? I saw 20 new posts and thought "hey maybe the show started airing"
Can someone please explain/how water falls with no rain?
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
January 16 2017 05:53 GMT
#60
On January 16 2017 08:02 RuiBarbO wrote:
Omg this conversation is STILL going on? I saw 20 new posts and thought "hey maybe the show started airing"

It's supposed to start this Wednesday, so the wait won't be too much longer.
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9234 Posts
January 16 2017 08:50 GMT
#61
Day9, what a man. Esports at it's finest.
I suppose if you don't know him you can watch the following video to get to know him quite a bit. Or who he was in the SC2 days. Idk how much has changed but I'm looking forward to the show as well.
passive quaranstream fan
Julmust
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Sweden4867 Posts
January 16 2017 10:31 GMT
#62
On January 16 2017 14:53 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2017 08:02 RuiBarbO wrote:
Omg this conversation is STILL going on? I saw 20 new posts and thought "hey maybe the show started airing"

It's supposed to start this Wednesday, so the wait won't be too much longer.

We're gonna put all the shows on the calendar, so you (hopefully) won't miss it
AdministratorI'm dancing in the moonlight
Pontual
Profile Joined October 2016
Brazil3038 Posts
January 18 2017 18:28 GMT
#63
So it starts today? Does anyone know the time? Or will it be re-scheduled for another day?
Shrinkzxo
Profile Blog Joined August 2014
Dotoland672 Posts
January 18 2017 18:49 GMT
#64
On January 19 2017 03:28 Pontual wrote:
So it starts today? Does anyone know the time? Or will it be re-scheduled for another day?


In 2 hours
https://twitter.com/shrinkzxo
cecek
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Czech Republic18921 Posts
January 18 2017 19:02 GMT
#65
On January 19 2017 03:49 Shrinkzxo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2017 03:28 Pontual wrote:
So it starts today? Does anyone know the time? Or will it be re-scheduled for another day?


In 2 hours

thanks. I hate timezones, this is helpful.
super gg
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
January 18 2017 21:33 GMT
#66
It's started now
Garrl
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Scotland1972 Posts
January 18 2017 22:23 GMT
#67
even tho there was no real new information for me, first segment was really good.
BlazingGlory
Profile Joined February 2010
Bulgaria854 Posts
January 18 2017 22:54 GMT
#68
I liked his SC vods but i see no point in watching this over Matumba for instance. Over anything actually.

Is it me or Day9 was a better looking man long ago. Maybe forgetting things.
Julmust
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Sweden4867 Posts
January 18 2017 23:25 GMT
#69
You have to realize that this is a guide for beginners. You're not gonna learn much tbh. Watch it for entertainment value.
AdministratorI'm dancing in the moonlight
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
January 18 2017 23:37 GMT
#70
On January 19 2017 07:54 BlazingGlory wrote:
I liked his SC vods but i see no point in watching this over Matumba for instance. Over anything actually.

Is it me or Day9 was a better looking man long ago. Maybe forgetting things.

The series is currently not really useful as a guide to a player above ~4k or so, but it seems very useful for 2-3k players, who are the majority of the player base.
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6225 Posts
January 19 2017 00:31 GMT
#71
this is really quite entertaining.
giftdgecko
Profile Joined February 2011
United States2126 Posts
January 19 2017 00:36 GMT
#72
Stream is currently "Day9 doesn't understand batrider"
zev318
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada4306 Posts
January 19 2017 00:41 GMT
#73
On January 19 2017 07:54 BlazingGlory wrote:
I liked his SC vods but i see no point in watching this over Matumba for instance. Over anything actually.

Is it me or Day9 was a better looking man long ago. Maybe forgetting things.


he got old(er).

i wish this was live coaching, cause he has no idea what to do, maybe its just cause he's playing support
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-19 00:52:31
January 19 2017 00:43 GMT
#74
On January 19 2017 09:36 giftdgecko wrote:
Stream is currently "Day9 doesn't understand batrider"

That's part of it, but he's also getting killed by sniper because he's trying to farm lane as lion (which is actually a fairly large amount of his deaths). More of a misunderstanding of how to play a support. Should just hide in the trees, he'd be way more effective.

On January 19 2017 09:41 zev318 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2017 07:54 BlazingGlory wrote:
I liked his SC vods but i see no point in watching this over Matumba for instance. Over anything actually.

Is it me or Day9 was a better looking man long ago. Maybe forgetting things.


he got old(er).

i wish this was live coaching, cause he has no idea what to do, maybe its just cause he's playing support

He did decently on viper, it's supporting that's the issue (though that does seem to be why he's keeping at it)
Daray
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
6006 Posts
January 19 2017 00:44 GMT
#75
Yeah, i watched a bit and he really has no idea what to do as a support. I guess its true for every new player... playing a core and hitting creeps, enemy heroes and towers is an easy concept to follow.
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6225 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-19 00:54:58
January 19 2017 00:50 GMT
#76
He's pretty hilarious the way he responds to his teammates raging.

It's also kinda painful though because there's so many things he's agonising over that any random 3k, let alone purge, could clear up in like two seconds.
Moobutt
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1996 Posts
January 19 2017 03:25 GMT
#77
I just realized day9 has green-screened Purge's background onto his own background. Wow that really fucks with your head once you see it.
3/22/16 The Day EG Died
Papercappu
Profile Joined July 2015
Canada2210 Posts
January 19 2017 05:46 GMT
#78
uh i missed this. so,purge didnt even coached him?
Pontual
Profile Joined October 2016
Brazil3038 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-19 10:04:50
January 19 2017 09:38 GMT
#79
Lemme explain. Yesterday, in the first segment Purge explained him about laning and gave some tips. Then day9 went on his solo adventures.

Today it'll be on Purge's stream, where purge will show the clips he chose from yesterday's games and will bash day9 to death (he does this to everyone, nothing personal)

So, today is the stream to watch if you want something educational. Btw, had a lot of fun with day9 yesterday, personally.

ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
January 19 2017 09:52 GMT
#80
i wonder how effective this approach is, as opposed to live coaching
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Julmust
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Sweden4867 Posts
January 19 2017 09:56 GMT
#81
On January 19 2017 18:52 ahswtini wrote:
i wonder how effective this approach is, as opposed to live coaching

I think it's pretty good. Purge was very clear about wanting to teach concepts. During a game that can be hard to take in, as there's a million things going on. So they sit down and watch the replay the day after. Seems like a very good approach to me.
AdministratorI'm dancing in the moonlight
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
January 19 2017 10:45 GMT
#82
i figured the same, just being bombarded with "do this, do that" while playing a game makes it very hard to understand why ur doing it
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
cecek
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Czech Republic18921 Posts
January 19 2017 11:25 GMT
#83
I missed this live. I suppose Day 9 will uplaod the VODs to his youtube channel? Did he talk about VODs on the stream at all? Twitch VODs on his twitch channel are only available to his subs, so I can't watch there.
super gg
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6225 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-19 11:35:00
January 19 2017 11:33 GMT
#84
I'd guess he'll keep them paywalled for a while, but perhaps that's not how he operates.

I would like to watch the full thing also but it's not worth actual money.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-19 11:41:50
January 19 2017 11:41 GMT
#85
Only caught a bit of it! It was cool to get a shoutout, I think the way they segmented the show was good and traditional:

- Concept taught
- Application
- Review
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
yosar
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia11 Posts
January 19 2017 12:33 GMT
#86
On January 19 2017 20:33 Belisarius wrote:
I'd guess he'll keep them paywalled for a while, but perhaps that's not how he operates.

I would like to watch the full thing also but it's not worth actual money.


He usually uploads all his content to youtube within a couple of days.
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42381 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-19 13:05:39
January 19 2017 13:05 GMT
#87
On January 19 2017 20:33 Belisarius wrote:
I'd guess he'll keep them paywalled for a while, but perhaps that's not how he operates.

I would like to watch the full thing also but it's not worth actual money.


The twitch subs will most likely stay behind pay wall, but the Youtube VoDs will be available for free.

Either here or Purge's youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/user/day9tv/videos
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
smilingjuggernaut
Profile Joined November 2016
74 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-19 16:50:35
January 19 2017 16:48 GMT
#88
Pretty funny experiment. When I've looked for inspiration trying to learn a new game, I'll always just gone and watched whoever's best at the game and asked myself why they do what they do, what they could be doing better etcetc so seeing this kind of approach to learning is very alien to me and fun :D
Jutranjo
Profile Joined October 2010
Slovenia140 Posts
January 19 2017 17:29 GMT
#89
Yeah the VODs go up on Youtube in a day or two usually. Watching the first and last bit with both of them was pretty interesting, watching the actual games is a bit meh. You get the highlights of it at the end anyway.

Can't wait for next week!
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
January 19 2017 19:09 GMT
#90
RuiBarbO
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
United States1340 Posts
January 19 2017 21:55 GMT
#91
Well that was fun. Is the post-game coaching session going to be available too?
Can someone please explain/how water falls with no rain?
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-19 22:28:24
January 19 2017 21:58 GMT
#92
On January 20 2017 06:55 RuiBarbO wrote:
Well that was fun. Is the post-game coaching session going to be available too?

I'm sure it will be on youtube later. For now the VOD is available on twitch here: https://www.twitch.tv/purgegamers/v/115762642
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6225 Posts
January 19 2017 22:24 GMT
#93
Interesting that purge isn't a fan of dual offlanes.

I've always felt duos were way more reliable than a trilane composed of random 3ks.
ChunderBoy
Profile Joined August 2011
3242 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-19 22:29:02
January 19 2017 22:28 GMT
#94
On January 20 2017 07:24 Belisarius wrote:
Interesting that purge isn't a fan of dual offlanes.

I've always felt duos were way more reliable than a trilane composed of random 3ks.

i mean dota is mostly 1-1-2 with pos 4 doing w.e needs to be done
can he roam a lot he can duo lane he can do w.e he wants
"mmr is a social construct" - tumblr
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6225 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-19 22:32:24
January 19 2017 22:31 GMT
#95
Let's be serious, mostly he plays jungle legion.

But yes, fair enough.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-19 22:41:03
January 19 2017 22:40 GMT
#96
Even at mid 3k dual offlanes tend to be rare. Like 2-3 years ago it was true that no one at that level could trilane, but that changed pretty fast.

A strong dual offlane (say undying + tusk) can still crush a 3k trilane 90% of the time, but generally people aren't picking to synergize with their own team in that manner unless they duo queued (it's far more common to see people sort of try to counterpick the enemy team at best, or most commonly just pick whatever they feel like playing anyways).

My experience in ranked ~4k is like ... 40% 1-1-2 + jungle, 30% 1-1-3, 15% 1-1-2+ 1 roamer, 5% 2-1-2.

Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11790 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-19 22:50:44
January 19 2017 22:47 GMT
#97
Honestly feel 2-1-2 is easier to get people synced up with even if has huge potentials to fail by one or two bad plays. In three-lanes with random members it is often unclear to the supports who has zoning, who has pulling and if one should just perma roam since the zoning is doing well. After 3-4 games together that would work well or the heroes are crystal clear for it but it is often diffuse in the 4-5k range.

Watched the intro video and the post analysis. Really feel like purge needs to step up his post-game stuff. He did have a few good examples but there was no thread through what he was doing. First person perspective or even recording the actual Day9 stream would likely be better than the current free cam with both fogs in most cases. Maybe try actually loading the replay and showing it so different viewpoints and places in the game can be shown. Not sure but wasn't coherent as the intro was.
Murlox
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France1699 Posts
January 20 2017 17:12 GMT
#98
Yeah that was good ^^

Glad to be wrong, I mean, it went much better than I expected.


As for the dual offlane thing, I guess it really depends on your heroes / bracket. Most of the times though, in 3.5k, I feel that a dual offlane can almost outright win you the game. Because, most of the time, people don't trilane, but instead probably run a 4th core in the jungle - it's just what you do in 3.5k, you don't pick a second support, you pick a 4th core and go to the jungle...

So you can basically shit on their carry, shit on their jungler, rotate mid, instil massive doubt in their whole team, make them flame each other ("we need wards" "i'm solo support" "stop feeding" "i can't farm" "my carry has nothing", all that good stuff).

On the other hand, I'd rather get solo XP on a nyx offlaner, for sure.

So yeah, it does depend on the picks / situations, imo
Resistance ain't futile
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-20 18:09:15
January 20 2017 18:09 GMT
#99
My read on the lower-pub meta is that it's a weak rock-paper-scissors; defensive trilanes beat dual lanes, dual lanes beat junglers and junglers have an edge against trilanes. But trilanes are the least common.
Pontual
Profile Joined October 2016
Brazil3038 Posts
January 20 2017 18:11 GMT
#100
On January 21 2017 03:09 Buckyman wrote:
My read on the lower-pub meta is that it's a weak rock-paper-scissors; defensive trilanes beat dual lanes, dual lanes beat junglers and junglers have an edge against trilanes. But trilanes are the least common.

and junglers are wildly common lmao

it's a draw 90% of the time then
Murlox
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France1699 Posts
January 20 2017 18:15 GMT
#101
On January 21 2017 03:09 Buckyman wrote:
My read on the lower-pub meta is that it's a weak rock-paper-scissors; defensive trilanes beat dual lanes, dual lanes beat junglers and junglers have an edge against trilanes. But trilanes are the least common.


Yeah I'd agree with that, nice way to put it too.

And when jungling is the norm (low ranked matches basically)... I wouldn't call dual offlane a bad thing. Provided you planned for it a little bit beforehand ofc, don't go there with antimage + spectre and expect good things...
Resistance ain't futile
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
January 25 2017 21:19 GMT
#102
This is live currently
DV G
Profile Joined September 2012
Argentina2339 Posts
January 25 2017 23:10 GMT
#103
He's kinda funny for what I remembered, and seems to know the basics to hit 3k soon.

Purge might not be a great player, but I like his analisis and seems his teaching is working.
Go pro or die trying
Wineandbread
Profile Joined September 2009
United States2065 Posts
January 26 2017 00:15 GMT
#104
This lina game, despite some 2k things, has been pretty impressive from a growth standpoint
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
January 26 2017 00:48 GMT
#105
The cats are definitely the best part of the stream
YourGoodFriend
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2197 Posts
January 26 2017 13:29 GMT
#106
On January 26 2017 09:48 Nevuk wrote:
The cats are definitely the best part of the stream


His reaction to his cat flipping out as they are going over one of his games was great.
anonymous is the most famous author that anyone can be
Murlox
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France1699 Posts
January 26 2017 14:50 GMT
#107
I'll gladly eat my words on that one. Really enjoyed the part2, learned some stuff and was glad to see day9 sharing his thoughts/"trying hard" - sort of.

I was wrong, good stuff. Props to purge as well, quality prep work.
Resistance ain't futile
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
February 01 2017 21:41 GMT
#108
Sean 'I think Phantom Lancer is the coolest hero, i''ve never played him but he looks cool'

Oh you sweet summer child
Neosteel Enthusiast
Dr. ROCKZO
Profile Joined May 2010
New Zealand396 Posts
February 03 2017 07:08 GMT
#109
I wish Twtich had some sort of system that democratized backseat gaming.

It'd be really useful if the chat could vote on a tip to display to Sean once every minute, to answer his questions that he has while playing, because right now he asks questions aloud, but has no real way of getting an answer (because Twitch chat is too fast.)

That way you'd filter out all the people telling him the not-so-important stuff (i.e.that he should have used his wand last engagement), but he could still get the really vital tips for when he's got some fatal misunderstanding or lack of knowledge (i.e. why the Satyr Tormentor cast shockwave on him.)

Maybe his subs could submit the tips, but everyone could vote on them (one vote each round.)

Does anyone else think a system like that would be helpful? I might code up a prototype if so.
or something
Jutranjo
Profile Joined October 2010
Slovenia140 Posts
February 07 2017 14:07 GMT
#110
On February 03 2017 16:08 Dr. ROCKZO wrote:
I wish Twtich had some sort of system that democratized backseat gaming.

It'd be really useful if the chat could vote on a tip to display to Sean once every minute, to answer his questions that he has while playing, because right now he asks questions aloud, but has no real way of getting an answer (because Twitch chat is too fast.)

That way you'd filter out all the people telling him the not-so-important stuff (i.e.that he should have used his wand last engagement), but he could still get the really vital tips for when he's got some fatal misunderstanding or lack of knowledge (i.e. why the Satyr Tormentor cast shockwave on him.)

Maybe his subs could submit the tips, but everyone could vote on them (one vote each round.)

Does anyone else think a system like that would be helpful? I might code up a prototype if so.


If a streamer wanted to have that functionality, they could do it now if they ran it locally. Doesn't seem easy to make tho.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
February 24 2017 00:31 GMT
#111
This week's VODs






Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
February 24 2017 20:45 GMT
#112
good stuff, episode 4 was really good for me personally.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11790 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-26 12:14:02
February 26 2017 12:13 GMT
#113
On January 26 2017 08:10 DV G wrote:
He's kinda funny for what I remembered, and seems to know the basics to hit 3k soon.

Purge might not be a great player, but I like his analisis and seems his teaching is working.


I would say he is in the great category. He is 6k solo mmr (at least that was what showed at the end when they were going to queue for a game together). Good is around 4k in Dota.
WindWolf
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Sweden11767 Posts
February 27 2017 18:13 GMT
#114
This is without a doubt becoming my new favorite YouTube series. 5-6 hours of entertainment and learning every week.
EZ4ENCE
Wineandbread
Profile Joined September 2009
United States2065 Posts
March 02 2017 03:56 GMT
#115
lol he accidentally queued with purge in an unranked game today

was pretty funny but he ended up doing decent
sc14s
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5052 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-04 00:41:09
March 04 2017 00:32 GMT
#116
On December 17 2016 08:11 Murlox wrote:
I used to really love the SCBW dailies, and early SC2 aswell.

I was still occasionnaly checking the dailies, but in time, all I ended up seeing was a fat lazy dude playing Hearthstone, and giggling to himself.

This move looks very opportunistic to me. Don't like it.

Are you really calling day9 lazy? Just get out. Never come back please.
Gamerhcp
Profile Joined May 2015
734 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-05 12:40:26
March 05 2017 12:39 GMT
#117






Hello
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
March 16 2017 19:43 GMT
#118
I stayed up to watch the last Day 9 episode when he solo-q'd. He's pretty solid
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
March 16 2017 19:46 GMT
#119
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Merany
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France890 Posts
March 17 2017 12:08 GMT
#120
I've been watching those during lunch break at work, really good stuff! Both entertaining and with lots of things to learn!
MichaelEhrmantraut
Profile Joined December 2016
35 Posts
March 18 2017 14:19 GMT
#121
Best series ever. This should be actually included in the in-game client with a link or something.
Jaaaaasper
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States10225 Posts
March 19 2017 01:07 GMT
#122
Yeah this is just as good as I remember his bw and early sc2 dailies being.
Hey do you want to hear a joke? Chinese production value. | I thought he had a aegis- Ayesee | When did 7ing mad last have a good game, 2012?
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
March 19 2017 02:46 GMT
#123
I wish he had PowerPoint slides with key points that I can use as reference. I don't have time to watch every video haha.
Brood War loyalist
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
March 19 2017 05:29 GMT
#124
what's day[9] mmr now?
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-19 14:00:35
March 19 2017 14:00 GMT
#125
On March 19 2017 14:29 evanthebouncy! wrote:
what's day[9] mmr now?


2.7+
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
RuiBarbO
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
United States1340 Posts
March 22 2017 23:40 GMT
#126
No show tonight?
Can someone please explain/how water falls with no rain?
Nakama
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany584 Posts
March 22 2017 23:45 GMT
#127
Day[9] is sick atleast thats what purge said.
cecek
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Czech Republic18921 Posts
March 29 2017 20:23 GMT
#128
day 9 live now with a solo stream, purge is busy at DAC.

I gotta say, as much as I like Day9's dota streams, I would enjoy them more if he didn't spam viper. =/ Like any other hero, but Viper? Come oon..
super gg
Wineandbread
Profile Joined September 2009
United States2065 Posts
March 30 2017 23:56 GMT
#129
I feel like he's losing his edge after not having had lessons for a while

I watched a bit of a WK game he played yesterday. He laned with a rhasta against a razor. He acknowledged his bad play but I think it was worse than he thought.

Right from the start he misses out on fb and gets his shaman killed because he didnt mango in time. He didnt seem to know how razor works and only read his skills once the game was over. He got something like a 13min armlet. His teamfighting targeting felt really bad, I remember one in particular he could have killed PA or somebody but Qs the razor instead and ends up dying. Granted his team wasnt doing too hot and werent that coordinated either.

Above all else, I feel that he needs greater minimap awareness, and im not sure its something purge has really emphasized.
InFiNitY[pG]
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Germany3468 Posts
March 31 2017 05:59 GMT
#130
I completely agree with you, maybe Purge is intentionally ignoring this topic because it's gonna be a full lesson later on, but the first things I've noticed when watching him is he never seems to really know what he's doing. He missed countless FBs/kills on the enemy offlaner becauses he is happily trying to last hit instead of firing that stun/slow his supports would need to get in range to finish off that offlaner. He runs away a lot from fights when he's full HP and mana instead of going for it, and also very rarely joins important team fights that are close to him and/or carries a TP to join team fights. Maybe thst comes with experience, but I think that after 6 full lesssons of several hours he should be much better at this part of the game.
"I just pressed stimpack, and somehow I won the battle" -Flash
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
March 31 2017 18:23 GMT
#131
Judging when to join a fight vs. farm is hard for an inexperienced carry.
Murlox
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France1699 Posts
March 31 2017 19:16 GMT
#132
I guess map awareness will not be an issue for an ex BW player. Neither should micro ("micro"), which he does pretty well, as far as I've seen anyway

But yeah, I guess dota 2 the game requires some time before you know what's going on, I mean if he doesn't even know what a Razor does...

Overall I think he's doing ok. Rest will come with time, imo!
Resistance ain't futile
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
April 05 2017 20:47 GMT
#133
Is Purge coaching this week yet? Thought he might still be traveling
Kishin2
Profile Joined May 2011
United States7534 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-05 22:58:08
April 05 2017 22:56 GMT
#134
Doubt Purge will be back/up for it this week.

I'm kinda amazed how slow Day9 plays Dota considering his background with starcraft. Mechanically he should be able to move the camera around and cycle through units like Arteezy does. He's definitely not experienced to use all the information from doing that kind of thing, but it's something I expected him to be doing just out of comfort.
Moobutt
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1996 Posts
April 06 2017 00:17 GMT
#135
On April 06 2017 07:56 Kishin2 wrote:
Doubt Purge will be back/up for it this week.

I'm kinda amazed how slow Day9 plays Dota considering his background with starcraft. Mechanically he should be able to move the camera around and cycle through units like Arteezy does. He's definitely not experienced to use all the information from doing that kind of thing, but it's something I expected him to be doing just out of comfort.

It's been a good 4 years since he was seriously devoted to the starcraft scene. The mechanical skills of SC2 decay fast. Plus, the mechanical skills needed in SC2 don't translate that well. Cycling through units is useful on a handful of heroes. His camera movement is kinda weak. The game sense skills translate a bit better imo. Map sense, economic gameplay, general strategic thinking.
3/22/16 The Day EG Died
Murlox
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France1699 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-06 17:31:56
April 06 2017 17:31 GMT
#136
And there is age, too.

I never was a 400 APM player but it's clear that, what, 17 years later, I would not play SC:BW the way I used to. For sure.
Resistance ain't futile
RuiBarbO
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
United States1340 Posts
April 07 2017 15:15 GMT
#137
I also find that Dota isn't a game that really lends itself to the kind of multitasking that you do in SC2, mechanically or cognitively. Particularly on the mechanical side, idk what others have found, but I feel like Dota 2's control groups and such don't work as smoothly as SC2. Lots of times when playing Meepo where the game will eat inputs and make me mess up blink-poofs. I notice that makes me play a lot slower.

Can someone please explain/how water falls with no rain?
Danzo
Profile Joined March 2011
2820 Posts
April 07 2017 21:11 GMT
#138
Anyone got the feeling Day9 is already burned out with Dota? Maybe it's because he hasn't had lessons with Purge, but he seems pretty fixed on just spamming his same comfort heroes and just playing it out for one day out of the week.
Getting too old for this..
Frogstomp
Profile Joined January 2013
United States125 Posts
April 08 2017 02:06 GMT
#139
This series has been amazing so far. Day9's overall a pretty intelligent gamer. Seeing him go through the learning process - along with Purge's thorough breakdown and explanation of concepts - has been really useful AND entertaining. Could become the definitive guide to dota imo
YourGoodFriend
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2197 Posts
April 10 2017 20:26 GMT
#140
On April 08 2017 06:11 Danzo wrote:
Anyone got the feeling Day9 is already burned out with Dota? Maybe it's because he hasn't had lessons with Purge, but he seems pretty fixed on just spamming his same comfort heroes and just playing it out for one day out of the week.


I think its more so just the way he learns, he likes to understand one concept at a time so limiting his hero pool is part of that. Also I assume he doesn't stream every time he plays so I am sure he is playing more and just not streaming it
anonymous is the most famous author that anyone can be
RuiBarbO
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
United States1340 Posts
April 11 2017 15:16 GMT
#141
On April 08 2017 06:11 Danzo wrote:
Anyone got the feeling Day9 is already burned out with Dota? Maybe it's because he hasn't had lessons with Purge, but he seems pretty fixed on just spamming his same comfort heroes and just playing it out for one day out of the week.


I've also wondered this, although I don't think he is burned out in this case. But if you've followed Day9 since the BW dailies, I think there's a sense that for anything other than BW, his passions don't run quite as deep. We kind of saw him fall away quietly from SC2 and now it's kind of a constant thought in the back of my head, is he going to do it again.

Who knows. But I'm enjoying the show so far and I hope whatever he feels about the game, he sees it through to its logical conclusion.
Can someone please explain/how water falls with no rain?
YourGoodFriend
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2197 Posts
April 11 2017 16:46 GMT
#142
Thought this was pretty funny and pretty accurate:
anonymous is the most famous author that anyone can be
Murlox
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France1699 Posts
April 14 2017 11:06 GMT
#143
I dont think he is burned out either. I think it's fine to spam your comfort heroes.

I mean, one probably should try different heroes to see how they all work but... there's no necessity to do it.


Regarding the game itself, I was a huge fan of SC:BW and didn't like SC2 all that much. I think I'd put dota on SC:BW level, there's much... things to do, to experiment, to improve. I don't know, the game looks "right" to me, still. And it has been ~17 years...
Resistance ain't futile
WindWolf
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Sweden11767 Posts
April 15 2017 18:06 GMT
#144
I am currently watching this week's VODs. And watching Day[9] learning how Enchantress works is very funny to watch.

I know Purge has been going to events and such (and will also go away for Kiev), but I've missed his sessions. It is nice that he is back, at least for a few weeks
EZ4ENCE
cecek
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Czech Republic18921 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-19 11:26:12
April 19 2017 11:19 GMT
#145
Honestly, I thought he would improve much faster than what's actually happening. He was 2.2k almost exactly 3 months ago and he's 2.7k now, after 8 lessons with Purge. For some reasons he seems bad at everything, even basic rts-style control. He's chasing an enemy just by rightclicking on him, and when the hero goes highground, it takes Day9 a good .5 seconds to issue another command to his hero, because he lost vision. He just flat out doesn't press buttons, frequently dies with his items off cooldown not having used them at all. Despite being overwhelmed by how amazingly efficient treads switching is in the lesson in Purge, he just doesn't do it almost at all in his games. I don't think I've seen him click on an enemy (or allied) hero to check their items a single time, even when he's dead for a minute. He doesn't seem to watch the minimap basically at all. I would understand him doing stupid decisions, bad item builds, picking the wrong hero and whatnot, but he does so many mistakes that are just flat out laziness or not caring, they're not caused by lack of experience or knowledge.

Honestly, if he worked on these issues, rather than dissecting the philosophy of what it means to be a carry with Purge, he would climb way faster.
super gg
thekaas
Profile Joined July 2011
Denmark235 Posts
April 19 2017 12:02 GMT
#146
On April 19 2017 20:19 cecek wrote:
Honestly, I thought he would improve much faster than what's actually happening. He was 2.2k almost exactly 3 months ago and he's 2.7k now, after 8 lessons with Purge. For some reasons he seems bad at everything, even basic rts-style control. He's chasing an enemy just by rightclicking on him, and when the hero goes highground, it takes Day9 a good .5 seconds to issue another command to his hero, because he lost vision. He just flat out doesn't press buttons, frequently dies with his items off cooldown not having used them at all. Despite being overwhelmed by how amazingly efficient treads switching is in the lesson in Purge, he just doesn't do it almost at all in his games. I don't think I've seen him click on an enemy (or allied) hero to check their items a single time, even when he's dead for a minute. He doesn't seem to watch the minimap basically at all. I would understand him doing stupid decisions, bad item builds, picking the wrong hero and whatnot, but he does so many mistakes that are just flat out laziness or not caring, they're not caused by lack of experience or knowledge.

Honestly, if he worked on these issues, rather than dissecting the philosophy of what it means to be a carry with Purge, he would climb way faster.


I think you're wrong about his improvement being slow. After less than 500 games total starting at 2k, he's 2.8k, with a ranked winrate of ~58%. That's IMO rapid improvement for someone that new to the game.
My liquibets are slightly better than flipping a coin
cecek
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Czech Republic18921 Posts
April 19 2017 12:37 GMT
#147
On April 19 2017 21:02 thekaas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2017 20:19 cecek wrote:
Honestly, I thought he would improve much faster than what's actually happening. He was 2.2k almost exactly 3 months ago and he's 2.7k now, after 8 lessons with Purge. For some reasons he seems bad at everything, even basic rts-style control. He's chasing an enemy just by rightclicking on him, and when the hero goes highground, it takes Day9 a good .5 seconds to issue another command to his hero, because he lost vision. He just flat out doesn't press buttons, frequently dies with his items off cooldown not having used them at all. Despite being overwhelmed by how amazingly efficient treads switching is in the lesson in Purge, he just doesn't do it almost at all in his games. I don't think I've seen him click on an enemy (or allied) hero to check their items a single time, even when he's dead for a minute. He doesn't seem to watch the minimap basically at all. I would understand him doing stupid decisions, bad item builds, picking the wrong hero and whatnot, but he does so many mistakes that are just flat out laziness or not caring, they're not caused by lack of experience or knowledge.

Honestly, if he worked on these issues, rather than dissecting the philosophy of what it means to be a carry with Purge, he would climb way faster.


I think you're wrong about his improvement being slow. After less than 500 games total starting at 2k, he's 2.8k, with a ranked winrate of ~58%. That's IMO rapid improvement for someone that new to the game.

IIRC, their original plan was to have the show run for 4 months and to climb 100mmr a week, so he would be 3.8k after the 16 weeks. Many people (me included) expected him to climb even faster than that, considering he is getting coached , him saying that his goal is to improve and him being a former rts pro player, the precedent being that pro players tend to be great in all games, more or less. Forsen (pro player being used loosely here) calibrated at like 3.6k, 2GD is/was over 5k, Scarlet was pushing into 6k, some csgo pros are also in the 6k bracket, and there's many more examples. And meanwhile, Day9 is still 2.7k after 3 months of being coached and trying to improve.
super gg
Murlox
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France1699 Posts
April 19 2017 17:17 GMT
#148
My take on that :

Day9 is getting old(er), he's running a company, a show. He's (passed?) not trying very hard, he's here to have fun and try to understand / mess around the Dota2 philosophy. More than gaining MMR.

I mean he says it himself : "I couldn't care less about MMR" (I think it was during the game where Purge forgot to actually be a coach and went on to play with Day9 instead). And I believe those words are genuine, he doesn't look to be trying hard to me.

Just have a good time, and "improve". Not climbing the thing as fast as possible.
Resistance ain't futile
Danzo
Profile Joined March 2011
2820 Posts
April 19 2017 18:33 GMT
#149
On April 20 2017 02:17 Murlox wrote:
My take on that :

Day9 is getting old(er), he's running a company, a show. He's (passed?) not trying very hard, he's here to have fun and try to understand / mess around the Dota2 philosophy. More than gaining MMR.

I mean he says it himself : "I couldn't care less about MMR" (I think it was during the game where Purge forgot to actually be a coach and went on to play with Day9 instead). And I believe those words are genuine, he doesn't look to be trying hard to me.

Just have a good time, and "improve". Not climbing the thing as fast as possible.


Except he's made a goal last week to get 3k pretty soon.
Getting too old for this..
InFiNitY[pG]
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Germany3468 Posts
April 19 2017 21:20 GMT
#150
On April 20 2017 03:33 Danzo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2017 02:17 Murlox wrote:
My take on that :

Day9 is getting old(er), he's running a company, a show. He's (passed?) not trying very hard, he's here to have fun and try to understand / mess around the Dota2 philosophy. More than gaining MMR.

I mean he says it himself : "I couldn't care less about MMR" (I think it was during the game where Purge forgot to actually be a coach and went on to play with Day9 instead). And I believe those words are genuine, he doesn't look to be trying hard to me.

Just have a good time, and "improve". Not climbing the thing as fast as possible.


Except he's made a goal last week to get 3k pretty soon.


That is hardly a goal. Noone is denying that he wants to improve, he just doesn't have any drive or motivation to actually be good at Dota, which is probably what people expected from this show.
"I just pressed stimpack, and somehow I won the battle" -Flash
YourGoodFriend
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2197 Posts
April 21 2017 16:18 GMT
#151
What I am noticing is he lacks a lot of understanding of the different heros and how they work. I was watching the game he played as SpaceCow in the recent Ganking Practice video and he was really confused by Enigma, Centaur Warrunner and Puck. I realize that while I have not played that much Dota I have watched a lot of it so I get what all the heros do from watching tournaments and players streams. I think a lot of his lack of climbing the ladder is he is still learning about each hero as he is playing and it is distracting him from playing really well.
anonymous is the most famous author that anyone can be
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
April 22 2017 12:27 GMT
#152
The more he plays, the more adapted he will be to the game. He's almost 3k
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Danzo
Profile Joined March 2011
2820 Posts
April 30 2017 04:55 GMT
#153
I love hearing Day9 give his own personal analysis of pro games and learning from them after having a rough day of losing his games.
Getting too old for this..
Jelissei
Profile Joined June 2012
193 Posts
April 30 2017 22:19 GMT
#154
Concerning Day9s 'slow' improvement:
He explains quite often how he can only implement a few new things at once. In addition he doesn't read up on heroes and tactics online.
I think it makes a lot of sense because Purge and Day 9 are producing a tutorial series with topics that build on each other. It is good for the show that he learns accordingly and doesn't use concepts that haven't been explained by Purge beforehand.

For new players most helpful is probably the way he deals with difficulties. He doesn't hide them but answers them with an optimistic attitude.
Very helpful to gain mmr!
Wineandbread
Profile Joined September 2009
United States2065 Posts
May 01 2017 19:00 GMT
#155
I think him and Purge should do a pro replay analysis and have purge explain some of the things he's taught in them, that would feel like a good segment imo (though probably boring for the people who aren't as into dota that watch his stream). During his recent segment watching some of the Kiev games I thought that it would be really helpful if Purge was there to answer some of the questions he was asking to himself

I think tt's starting to click for him that sometimes dota is not a pure efficiency game like starcraft
sCCrooked
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1306 Posts
May 01 2017 19:06 GMT
#156
Honestly its pretty stupid people are ragging on him for his slow improvement. At least he's IMPROVING. Literally the vast majority of the DOTA playerbase is completely stuck at their mmr because of their mentalities. They either completely stagnate or go lower. Day9 is at least not among the majority. I'm sure for people around that level it must be more informative to see someone paired with a high level coach seeing the process of going from a "2k-3k player mentality and consideration checklist" to eventually reaching the higher mmrs which I too often see lower players complaining about not being able to get out of.
Enlightened in an age of anti-intellectualism and quotidian repetitiveness of asinine assumptive thinking. Best lycan guide evar --> "Fixing solo queue all pick one game at a time." ~KwarK-
Mum_Chamber
Profile Joined May 2017
Netherlands1 Post
May 02 2017 13:55 GMT
#157
I'm not sure if people are realizing how long it takes to climb up the MMR ladder.

With a stomping 60% winrate, you need 20 games to gain a mere 100 MMR, which is an entire week worth of games for most players (around 2-3 hours a day). Yes, you might win 4 consecutive games and climb 10 MMR, but there will be games when you lose 4 consecutive games and get back to where you were immediately. An average of 60% winrate usually means your initial MMR rating was off, rather than you developing over time.

With a more realistic 55% winrate when you see people climb the latter by getting better, that's 40 games and two weeks worth of games.. for just 100 MMR. Climbing 1,000 MMR with that 55% winrate (which, again means you can somehow continue improving constantly) that's 400 games and 20 weeks at the minimum. 5 freaking months.

Considering he is experimenting with roles and heroes he's not comfortable with, I think Sean's progression is very reasonable in 175 ranked games. To expect more was unrealistic to begin with.
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
May 02 2017 14:47 GMT
#158
On May 02 2017 22:55 Mum_Chamber wrote:
I'm not sure if people are realizing how long it takes to climb up the MMR ladder.

With a stomping 60% winrate, you need 20 games to gain a mere 100 MMR, which is an entire week worth of games for most players (around 2-3 hours a day). Yes, you might win 4 consecutive games and climb 10 MMR, but there will be games when you lose 4 consecutive games and get back to where you were immediately. An average of 60% winrate usually means your initial MMR rating was off, rather than you developing over time.

With a more realistic 55% winrate when you see people climb the latter by getting better, that's 40 games and two weeks worth of games.. for just 100 MMR. Climbing 1,000 MMR with that 55% winrate (which, again means you can somehow continue improving constantly) that's 400 games and 20 weeks at the minimum. 5 freaking months.

Considering he is experimenting with roles and heroes he's not comfortable with, I think Sean's progression is very reasonable in 175 ranked games. To expect more was unrealistic to begin with.


Plus in general it would be pretty bad for him to spam game off stream and then show up every week playing significantly better. It ruins the tutorial aspect of the series a bit if you don't get to see Sean implementing the things Purge talks about step by step.
Logo
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
May 10 2017 23:27 GMT
#159
Watching day9 experience 3k pub players is quite the experience
Baradrist
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany96 Posts
May 12 2017 13:55 GMT
#160
I like the take that some of the latter comments had on his tempo. I think it just really doesn't matter at all to him. He is here for beginners and for our and his own entertainment as well. Keep in mind that he doesn't want to be the next Miracle! He's not trying to "go pro". I think he is quite comfortable and actually also busy with everything else he has to do (aka. work and real life :D).

So considering that, I am actually quite impressed how good he is doing! I am playing Dota for maaaany many years. I still remember the time, when Lina and Prophet both had a global teleport and were quite alike (which to us ment in those days ... they would play the courier :D). The days when gold could be shared!! Imagine THAT. Hehe. ^^ I am so used to the 100+ heroes by now, I forgot how it feels to an outsider. It's just an overwhelming mass of things to learn! Heroes, mechanics, flaming, dealing with flame, etc. ... try to explain the game to your girlfriend while watching Major and you'll know what I mean.

His tempo is exactly what new players need and more importantly, they need his insight, his bright spirit and his take on the games philosophy in order to stay with the game through the start ... they will learn everything else in their own time. I love the show for what it is. Not the "becoming a pro afap", but "XXX leans Dota with Day[9] and Purge". I already recommended it to some friends who just started playing and they found it quite helpful!

PS: I also like that he learns all those things that one would need to cast/host future tournaments. He can be a great caster (in my opinion at least ... people seem to have different takes on that) and I would love to see him stay in the community.
snow2.0
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany2073 Posts
May 18 2017 08:00 GMT
#161
On April 20 2017 03:33 Danzo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2017 02:17 Murlox wrote:
My take on that :

Day9 is getting old(er), he's running a company, a show. He's (passed?) not trying very hard, he's here to have fun and try to understand / mess around the Dota2 philosophy. More than gaining MMR.

I mean he says it himself : "I couldn't care less about MMR" (I think it was during the game where Purge forgot to actually be a coach and went on to play with Day9 instead). And I believe those words are genuine, he doesn't look to be trying hard to me.

Just have a good time, and "improve". Not climbing the thing as fast as possible.


Except he's made a goal last week to get 3k pretty soon.

that's not a real goal. He's almost 3k with 58% winrate. That's just "play a few more games".
A goal for improvement needs to be something specific to focus on.
Pontual
Profile Joined October 2016
Brazil3038 Posts
May 18 2017 10:24 GMT
#162
On May 18 2017 17:00 snow2.0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2017 03:33 Danzo wrote:
On April 20 2017 02:17 Murlox wrote:
My take on that :

Day9 is getting old(er), he's running a company, a show. He's (passed?) not trying very hard, he's here to have fun and try to understand / mess around the Dota2 philosophy. More than gaining MMR.

I mean he says it himself : "I couldn't care less about MMR" (I think it was during the game where Purge forgot to actually be a coach and went on to play with Day9 instead). And I believe those words are genuine, he doesn't look to be trying hard to me.

Just have a good time, and "improve". Not climbing the thing as fast as possible.


Except he's made a goal last week to get 3k pretty soon.

that's not a real goal. He's almost 3k with 58% winrate. That's just "play a few more games".
A goal for improvement needs to be something specific to focus on.

What? He's already 3k. I saw it on stream, he had 3042 mmr when he showed it.
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
May 24 2017 21:39 GMT
#163
Day[9] really needs to hide his username and like the name of the people he matches against, especially when he's trying to play heroes like Bounty Hunter.
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Wineandbread
Profile Joined September 2009
United States2065 Posts
July 12 2017 20:39 GMT
#164
Blitz is coaching day9 for mid right now

It's been really insightful so far actually, even higher level players will probably get something out of this mid lesson if anyone is interested. (I don't think day9 is going to understand the concepts very well lol)
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
July 16 2017 20:09 GMT
#165
On July 13 2017 05:39 Wineandbread wrote:
Blitz is coaching day9 for mid right now

It's been really insightful so far actually, even higher level players will probably get something out of this mid lesson if anyone is interested. (I don't think day9 is going to understand the concepts very well lol)

RuiBarbO
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
United States1340 Posts
July 22 2017 03:04 GMT
#166
Can't wait to see Sean putting his Purge-certified Dota knowledge to work at TI7!
Can someone please explain/how water falls with no rain?
YourGoodFriend
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2197 Posts
July 25 2017 14:40 GMT
#167
Honestly watching this series I have learned a ton about dota, I really liked the Blitz episode
anonymous is the most famous author that anyone can be
HKTPZ
Profile Joined May 2017
105 Posts
July 26 2017 21:27 GMT
#168
Just watched some of it live. Man I feel sorry for Sean for having such a clueless coach. He should be going over pro or at least high mmr replays with someone who actually has useful insight into how dota works - playing with and against super clueless people while being coached by someone so ignorant seems like a recipe for disaster.
ahw
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada1099 Posts
July 27 2017 14:40 GMT
#169
On July 27 2017 06:27 HKTPZ wrote:
Just watched some of it live. Man I feel sorry for Sean for having such a clueless coach. He should be going over pro or at least high mmr replays with someone who actually has useful insight into how dota works - playing with and against super clueless people while being coached by someone so ignorant seems like a recipe for disaster.


Are you referring to purge or blitz?

Neither are top tier pros by any stretch of the imagination, but blitz is high 7k and purge is somewhere around 6k afaik. More than enough knowledge to coach a low 3k player like day9.

Murlox
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France1699 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-01 05:44:21
August 01 2017 05:42 GMT
#170
Purge did a tremendous job segmenting and bringing content to all the segments. He is a good listener, he speaks well. Very structured. He proved to be a very good teacher.

Just imagine this series with... I don't know, RTZ, EE, Sumail, Dendi... ? I mean, they sure are very knowledgable, but what matters is how able/willing you are to transfer that knowledge.

That said, I wouldn't mind any of these 4 as "special guests", like Blitz did.
Resistance ain't futile
Kyir
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1047 Posts
August 02 2017 12:49 GMT
#171
Yeah, I think any problems with Day9's advancement is mostly linked to the fact that he really only plays one or two days a week. I always feel like garbage when I do that.
sCCrooked
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1306 Posts
August 02 2017 15:35 GMT
#172
On August 02 2017 21:49 Kyir wrote:
Yeah, I think any problems with Day9's advancement is mostly linked to the fact that he really only plays one or two days a week. I always feel like garbage when I do that.


I agree. I think he doesn't play enough and that's part of why he's stagnating just barely into 3k. He can't really go up at all anymore doing only 1-3 games a week. He's stuck in the 50% win-loss cycle unless he's stomping some normal mode but those matches are largely jokes. His ranked win % has sort of plateaued for the moment. He needs to do like 10 games a day every day no breaks stream for maybe a year or so before a lot of this advanced stuff will sink in.

A lot of his coaches are giving him amazing advice but its advice I'd be giving to a 5k to move up to 6k. Sean needs a much more watered-down basic version of these mechanics because he still has glaring errors in those areas.
Enlightened in an age of anti-intellectualism and quotidian repetitiveness of asinine assumptive thinking. Best lycan guide evar --> "Fixing solo queue all pick one game at a time." ~KwarK-
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