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On September 20 2014 02:46 FHDH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2014 02:41 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 20 2014 02:32 FHDH wrote:On September 20 2014 02:28 Acritter wrote:On September 20 2014 02:27 FHDH wrote:On September 20 2014 02:25 Sn0_Man wrote:On September 20 2014 02:21 FHDH wrote:On September 20 2014 02:19 Acritter wrote:On September 20 2014 02:16 FHDH wrote:On September 20 2014 02:15 Acritter wrote:
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Supports used to get by with the famous 25 minutes brown boots wand. This patch is not the norm. It is the outlier. Fun game bro bring it back I played it without bitching. Why can't you? I wonder if we can stop this thread from being an oldschooler dickswinging contest? Two can play that game but it's not a fun game or interesting or on topic. all your balance requests boil down to "I suck ass at farming as support please give me free items anyway" it gets boring. Get real dude. If you're going to try and sit on my nuts at least say something that is close to accurate. Blink is stupid cheap. Farming it shouldn't be an issue. Most games it isn't, but the games that it is, as a support I find the suggestion of an additional 1-200g just needlessly painful. I understand the desire to bring SB/FS/Blink more on par but I don't like this approach. It's like the suggestions to nerf Rhasta. Maybe other supports should just be better, not Rhasta made worse. Depends entirely on which support. Supports that are farming blink daggers as their core won't give a shit about the extra 30 seconds on their timing, and supports that aren't farming for a blink dagger explicitly can afford to get it another minute or two later without being too sad about it. I think you're missing my caveat somehow. In games where farming blink is normal it's fine (I said this). In games where it's problematic that 200g can be really painful (I said this). I think there are better ways to balance the items if the items need balancing.
If you're a hero not farming for a blink dagger then I don't get how it's painful. You simply... don't get a blink dagger. It's not like there aren't other options, and when the change amounts to reducing mobility or blink timings on core heroes, or slowing the rest of the game's progression, then you leave a bigger window of impact for other items. It gives you more space to push with your mek before their tide gets his blink, or leaves you a window where you'll have a force staff where they'll have a pile of 1800 gold.
On heroes like SK and WK where you need a blink to initiate, then I see how a slower blink timing would be irritating (but not painful!). On Skywrath/Cm/lina/jakiro/treant/lion/nyx/blahblahblah you don't NEED a blink dagger, it's just a superconvenient luxury item. And like in real life, if you can't afford a luxury item, you simply do not get it.
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i think the game is generally the most fun it has ever been, regardless of your position. supports are extremely active, roam, and often get a good chunk of farm priority. The offlane changes have another core online faster, which gets us in to the midgame quicker. The mid role is entirely different from how it was played a year ago, with it often having highest farm priority despite being the most contested lane.
the game is in a good spot, the picks are just dry. things i'd like to see:
void: jump mana cost 120 all levels, up from 90. chronosphere no longer reveals invis units. chronosphere no longer disables evasion.
doom: scorched earth is the problem here, it gives him too much versatility and its the reason he can offlane. Maybe make the movement speed scale per level, starting at 0.
tinker: balance wise he is okay, but his playstyle is anti-fun to play against and his recovery in pubs is incredible. make the re-arm blink change and that would probably be enough. maybe make march do half what it does now to ancients.
skywrath: -10 movespeed
cm: +10 movespeed
spiritbreaker: lol
dp: probably fine just a product of push-crazy meta
shadow shaman: his q scales weird, nerf it lv 1, everything else about him is OK
razor: also probably fine. any nerf to his laning means he will never be picked... maybe increase his ult cool down with aghs by 15 seconds.
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I think a CD nerf is probably OK for blink. Unless you are trying to balance tinker via blink nerfs but I don't think that's the correct approach considering how many heroes are affected by blink balance changes.
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Blink is hard to balance, some heroes can't be played in the later stages of the game without it but at the same time it's too cost effective for some non natural users.
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On September 20 2014 02:55 ahw wrote:
i think the game is generally the most fun it has ever been, regardless of your position. supports are extremely active, roam, and often get a good chunk of farm priority. The offlane changes have another core online faster, which gets us in to the midgame quicker. The mid role is entirely different from how it was played a year ago, with it often having highest farm priority despite being the most contested lane.
the game is in a good spot, the picks are just dry. things i'd like to see:
void: jump mana cost 120 all levels, up from 90. chronosphere no longer reveals invis units. chronosphere no longer disables evasion.
doom: scorched earth is the problem here, it gives him too much versatility and its the reason he can offlane. Maybe make the movement speed scale per level, starting at 0.
tinker: balance wise he is okay, but his playstyle is anti-fun to play against and his recovery in pubs is incredible. make the re-arm blink change and that would probably be enough. maybe make march do half what it does now to ancients.
skywrath: -10 movespeed
cm: +10 movespeed
spiritbreaker: lol
Spiritbreaker is invisible on the minimap when charging. EZ.
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That doesn't make SB useable lol
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On September 20 2014 02:53 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2014 02:43 Plansix wrote:
Reducing the 1800 effective initiation range on his chrono wouldn't hurt. That is so far when a blink dagger maxes out at 1200. Changing a dynamic that a hero has possessed for years (with no complaints) is questionable. Void's become too strong because of power creep, but that particular part has never been a problem. Bigger Chrono, faster turn rate, different offlane, improved core items, TW mana reduction: those are all better suspects as to why he's picked so often. Show nested quote +On September 20 2014 02:44 Acritter wrote:
Why exactly do we want to leave him viable? The other dominant heroes weren't given that luxury in the past. Most heroes nerfed in the past were never nerfed into being unplayable. When Visage fell out of popularity it was due to his nerfs + a whole host of other changes that made him replaceable in lineups. He wasn't utter trash. Even Batrider was never unplayable. People merely overreacted to his nerfs.
I don't think you should ever nerf a hero into unplayability. I have raged at Void many times and I find him so tiresome to watch in pro matches over and over but good balancing doesn't cycle through over/underpowered heroes so only a small roster are reasonably viable, it leaves who is viable up to what roles are needed and if that becomes too narrow you look at the game's design. Some people in this thread seem to have a lot of hate in their hearts and are proponents of suffering because they experienced it themselves. Boo to that: Dota is a game.
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On September 20 2014 02:53 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2014 02:43 Plansix wrote:
Reducing the 1800 effective initiation range on his chrono wouldn't hurt. That is so far when a blink dagger maxes out at 1200. Changing a dynamic that a hero has possessed for years (with no complaints) is questionable. Void's become too strong because of power creep, but that particular part has never been a problem. Bigger Chrono, faster turn rate, different offlane, improved core items, TW mana reduction: those are all better suspects as to why he's picked so often.
A range reduction on chrono or time walk is not a drastic change as long as it isn't crazy. Bringing time walk down by 200 units or chrono closer to the range of black hole wouldn't be terrible. Right now chrono has a better effective range than black hole(with blink), lasts longer has an amazingly short cool down.
Really any nerf would be good for void, but I like ones that give the other side a better ability to respond, rather than just directly make the hero crappier(ie, cool down increase).
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Spiritbreaker is invisible on the minimap when charging. EZ.
O u mean like using smoke?
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On September 20 2014 03:01 Sn0_Man wrote:
That doesn't make SB useable lol
It makes him pub viable again, and that's good enough for me. All that is required of SB ever is charge at people and be a bashlord.
E - yes like smoke, except it doesn't have a 60 second cooldown and is free. Actually if he got exactly smoke mechanics at the beginning of every charge, I'd be happy.
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On September 20 2014 03:01 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2014 02:55 ahw wrote:
i think the game is generally the most fun it has ever been, regardless of your position. supports are extremely active, roam, and often get a good chunk of farm priority. The offlane changes have another core online faster, which gets us in to the midgame quicker. The mid role is entirely different from how it was played a year ago, with it often having highest farm priority despite being the most contested lane.
the game is in a good spot, the picks are just dry. things i'd like to see:
void: jump mana cost 120 all levels, up from 90. chronosphere no longer reveals invis units. chronosphere no longer disables evasion.
doom: scorched earth is the problem here, it gives him too much versatility and its the reason he can offlane. Maybe make the movement speed scale per level, starting at 0.
tinker: balance wise he is okay, but his playstyle is anti-fun to play against and his recovery in pubs is incredible. make the re-arm blink change and that would probably be enough. maybe make march do half what it does now to ancients.
skywrath: -10 movespeed
cm: +10 movespeed
spiritbreaker: lol
Spiritbreaker is invisible on the minimap when charging. EZ.
SB invunerable and invisible while charging EZ
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On September 20 2014 03:03 Fleetfeet wrote:It makes him pub viable again, and that's good enough for me. All that is required of SB ever is charge at people and be a bashlord.
Um...I can still stun his ass to prevent his ult, which is why he is bad right now. His one job is to take out one hero and he doesn't do it. Space cow need more love than that, maybe a buff to his passive.
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veil of discord should be like dazzle weave and can be cast on allies for 25 sec 25% magic res buff
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OK all this Spirit Breaker talk reminds me, I take back everything I said, nerf Spirit Breaker I hate him. Make him unplayable.
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On September 20 2014 03:05 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2014 03:03 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 20 2014 03:01 Sn0_Man wrote:
That doesn't make SB useable lol It makes him pub viable again, and that's good enough for me. All that is required of SB ever is charge at people and be a bashlord. Um...I can still stun his ass to prevent his ult, which is why he is bad right now. His one job is to take out one hero and he doesn't do it. Space cow need more love than that, maybe a buff to his passive.
I'd agree that it wouldn't be enough to make him "good", but it would be enough where I'd be allowed to charge at people out of position, and not just have them start walking away as soon as I jog through any sort of enemy vision. I'm not interested in making him "good", I'm interested in re-living the fun that is playing a hero entirely designed to smash faces.
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SB is already pretty good in pubs if you are good at him. You just have to smoke for charge, and charge from good positions, and itemize properly. He's not nearly as bad as everyone thinks. Kind of like how everyone thinks earth spirit is bad for some reason?
His ult change kind of destroyed his viability tho
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Everyone thinks earth spirit is ungodly overpowered, but is afraid to learn to play him, I think.
And yeah, BAT increase and ult change murdered space cow.
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SB is totally fine, except that he is one of the worst heroes in Dota. I will go so far as to say the worse hero in dota right now. I can't think of anyone less useful.
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1. increase the damage from Huskar's burning spears
2. increase the total # of illusions PL can have at any one time. Make his illusions deal less damage but last longer.
3. revert crystal maiden's int so she's not HUR DUR blonde
4. make nighstalker have increased health and mana regen during nightime but shorten nightime
5. make keeper of light's nuke scale 2.0x with his int at max level.
6. increase blyat cyka's strg gain or something IDK he's too squishy
7. make it so slardar doesn't take extra dmg when he uses sprint but increases spring cd. make his ult have 0 cast time and reduce mana cost (or remove mana cost)
8. increase spirit baker's charge speed when he uses nether charge
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EPT
