Alright folks. It's been awhile, and I think we are all bloodthirsty for a new balance patch. We're all feeling that itch. We've hit the point of this thread where every ranked match making has essentially 3 of several "stronger" heroes, and very little of other heroes. Because of the nature of these heroes, its very difficult to win pub games without having at least one or two of these stronger heroes.
What do you want to see nerfed in this patch?
Tinker - an extremely difficult hero to gank, an extremely quick farmer, and one of the highest damage dealers in the game. Can be anywhere, can refresh a ghost scepter, and can guarantee timely BoT + Soul Ring timings with ancient stacking
Faceless Void - Can be laned anywhere, one of the stronger melee laners and can beat a lot of melee heroes 1v1, nearly perfect scaling with solo kill power at level 7, low (comparatively) cooldown ultimate.
Razor / Viper - Super strong laners that can get a Mek and start the "death ball". Very difficult to kill, still powerful in the lategame, potentially a product of the meta / strength of Mek. Also both can beat OD in lane.
Doom - Strong because of laning flexibility and how strong Devour is.
Death Prophet - Mid lane winner, ridiculous pusher, low cooldown ultimate, very difficult to fight into
Skywrath Mage - high movement speed, high level 1 damage, long better orchid, long initiation slow, obviously nice with Faceless Void.
Earth Spirit - obviously only in pubs, but his ultimate is ridiculous.
Shadow Shaman - stronger pusher, wards are ridiculously strong and somewhat low cooldown.
Enigma - probably will get nerfed but I love this hero
Brewmaster - just a strong hero. Lower cooldowns now.
Lycan - Permaban status.
Meepo is legitmately broken
Tidehunter - not too strong, but can kill ancients for free.
Strong Items - Blink Dagger, Shivas, Mek,
Change to buybacks?
Pushing in some way? Perhaps a tower bounty nerf?
Offlane - Nearly any hero can be played here, get reasonable farm, and get a decent amount of experience. Encourages 3-4 core line ups, and strengthens deathballs by making sure some heroes always get levels.
What do you want to see buffed?
Unused heroes?
4 protect 1?
Turtling?
Rod of Atos?
Feel free to talk about whatever you think should be addressed, because remember:
This is the thread we all needed. Personally I would like to see Chrono's cool down bumped up and a few other minor nerfs. I would also like to be able to forcestaff people out of the chrono or otherwise save them.
And we need some buffs up in here too. Sven, CK, CM and a bunch of heroes need love. Even Spirit Breaker needs some loving. We need some positive energy up in this thread.
Nerf tower bounty. Nerf laser nerf first two levels of rhastas non-ult spells undo void turn rate change. Lower cuncussive shot range to 1200~. Kill lycan. Reduce dp ult damage to towers keep damage to heroes. Buff qop blink. Blink disable to 4 seconds. No complete sentences woo.
From my retarded ass blog.
Fiery Soul duration increased to 10. Fiery Soul maximum stacks increased to 5. Fiery soul no longer gives bonus attack speed. For each stack of Fiery Soul Lina’s spells deal 5/10/15/20 additional damage. For each stack of Fiery Sould Lina’s spells cooldowns are reduced by 0.1/0.2/0.3/0.4
Please don't encourage turtling and passive play. I think the DotA should keep the faster meta and fighting focused gameplay (straight from early or midgame). I lost interest in Dota a couple years ago because there was often very little action and many lulls within the game.
i think xp and gold stuff will be changed in some way. tinker: nerf laser on the early levels + nerf march (mb the radius) OR blink dagger stuff void: nerf cd or duration of chrono, nerf backtrack in some way doom: skill acquired through devour is gone after dying, small nerf to scorched earth skywrath: nerf manacost of bolt OR nerf ultimate
I wonder how you could nerf POTM support without nerfing her potential as a farmer. Because I think she is a balanced farmer but kinda dumb support atm.
Also want to see Skywrath, Void, Doom, Lycan, Razor and Tinker nerfed. Just think they are really boring..
Biggest nerfs to tinker I'd like to see would be to change his base stats some way (preferably movement speed), and to make Ghost / EB not refresh-able.
On September 20 2014 00:44 Rocket-Bear wrote: I wonder how you could nerf POTM support without nerfing her potential as a farmer. Because I think she is a balanced farmer but kinda dumb support atm.
Also want to see Skywrath, Void, Doom, Lycan, Razor and Tinker nerfed. Just think they are really boring..
And hoping for a buff to Chen and Clinkz
Increase CD / Manacost / Decrease Damage of Arrow.
I have a feeling sky won't be receiving many nerfs (if any at all) and that he'll fall off once void gets nerfed. Razor/Tinker/Void/Rhasta nerfs for sure. Hoping for more windrunner buffs :D
Rescale Void's Time Walk mana cost to 90/100/110/120. Rescale Void's Chronosphere CD to its pre-6.80 state. Slightly lower his starting AGI, slightly increase his AGI gain so it reaches the same pre-6.82 point by level 11.
Way too much power creep over the last few patches.
Like Entropic said, make the game more fast-paced. I think an increase in the value of aggression by increasing gold/xp bounty for kills would be a good change.
Lycan just needs a nerf to howl. Aoe instead of global would be good enough but I'm sure hell get hit with something else.
Void needs a CD increase on his ult. Every 100 seconds is absurd for what is a non channeled black hole with a larger AoE.
Skywrath could use less range but shouldnt be hit too hard. People just don't like picking defensive supports and BKB carries aren't in vogue right now. He's a product of the meta more than anything.
Razor just needs to not be able to refresh his ult and have it stop when he dies with aegis.
Doom could use a change to scorched earth. Its just too good of a spell right now.
Nerf SS ward health.
Buff CM int gain. Buff Lina LSA range. Buff Darkness level 1. Buff QoP blink. Buff AM.
Adjust Rosh pit. This more than anything has to be addressed because with the random timer any time the dire has the lead they are almost guaranteed every rosh in the late game.
Adjust Radiant camps/ dire offlane. Nothing extreme, but dire offlane is really hard right now. Not enough room to work.
Yeah, they do need to do something about the rosh pit and make it easier for the radiant to scout it. I don't have a problem with the random timer, but it gives dire a huge advantage since they can just ninja someone into the pit. I wouldn't mind there being a few locations where wards to see into the pit(well known and reasonable to counter ward). Wars over vision are always interesting add to the excitement of the game.
Brewmaster Primal Split replaces any existing spirits when cast.
Broodmother Webs grant free pathing in a slightly larger area when moving towards the center of the web. Trees are considered pathable if any part of the tree is on the web.
Doom Devour can no longer grant 'Spell Immunity'.
Earthshaker Aftershock required level increased to 2/3/5/7 (was 1/3/5/7)
Huskar Life Break cannot be cast during Life Break
Storm Spirit Overload required level increased to 2/3/5/7 (was 1/3/5/7)
Tuskar Launch Snowball can be autocast. Snowball cannot carry mines.
Viper Corrosive Skin is not triggered by Corrosive Skin. Corrosive Skin is not triggered by redirected or reflected damage.
Zeus Static Field required level increased to 2/3/5/7 (was 1/3/5/7)
Hill Troll Priest Continues to cast Heal after losing aggro. Correctly returns to idle when it runs out of mana or all nearby neutrals are at full health.
Bloodstone Cannot reduce respawn time below 1 second.
Boots of Travel Cannot target invulnerable units. (Can still target invulnerable buildings)
Tranquil Boots Break when dropped.
Fountain Attacks disarm for 0.3 seconds. This is an orb effect.
Assists In addition to dealing damage, assists are also awarded for placing a disabling debuff.
Abandons Abandon timers pause while a player is dead. Abandon timer for not getting Experience is reset for getting an assist.
1v1 Mid A player can win by obtaining 250 Last Hits, in addition to the existing win conditions.
Guides If a player chooses a skill other than the recommended one, the guide now suggests the skipped skill point be taken at the next level of the skill chosen instead, rather than at every level until it's taken.
BRING BACK 4 PROTECT 1 am i the only one who actually enjoyed 2009 chinese dota so much more fun watching all 10 heroes stacked with items rather than the 3 core bullshit we have now
Since it's a baseless thread can we remove pudge please? ^_^
On a more serious note I don't think Earth spirit will be buffed or nerfed, rather he should be released into captains mode along with phoenix and maybe brood. Phoenix and Earth will be really OP initially but a subsequent 6.82b patch should be able to tweak matters. I'd just like some new heroes in the meta.
DP will get a base dam/movement nerf. Void will get a base damage nerf. Tinker's march will no longer affect ancients or woods. Lycan is hard to balance. Razor and viper will stay the way they are.
Rhasta is fine. He's slow, squishy, farms like shit and has no semi-carry potential.
Waga suggested decreasing Void armor so he can't offlane any more. I thought this was a decent idea. Mine was to increase cast point on Chrono. The "can't backtrack lethal damage" idea has some merit.
I have no idea what you do about Tinker that doesn't remove him from the meta. I think both Tinker and Void should stay, just not be so overpowering. Taking E-blade off of Rearm isn't a bad idea as it eliminates the horrifying "I can kill guys on your team over and over and over again without stopping" aspect of a fully-built Tinker. Already Tinker who is prevented from snowballing is kinda pathetic.
Skywrath is clearly overpowered but I don't have any suggestions.
the 2 heros in the "what to nerf" is SPOT ON , get rid of that fucking Tinker bullshit , cant stand to watch this hero , does it all -> Farm like a mad man , good mobility (once blink / Bots) anti pusher + pusher , and to top it all FUCKING 1 Man carry no other hero can have such a late game impact, maybe just the other guy on the list VOID , which is another unreal early/mid/late game hero , both suffer from the "good at all times" syndrom but also scales best in the game today. NERF THEM
On September 20 2014 01:15 evilfatsh1t wrote: BRING BACK 4 PROTECT 1 am i the only one who actually enjoyed 2009 chinese dota so much more fun watching all 10 heroes stacked with items rather than the 3 core bullshit we have now
You are not. It's never gonna happen but a gold gain nerf would be really nice instead of the current "easy mode" doto. It would also mean that ricing would not actually be totally worthless. More 6-slot AM vs 6-slot Morf pls volvo
We got the fast pace, everyone is bitching, now lets back to the slower pace, so everyone bitchs and we change again, like the circle of life it has to be. Bring back harder carries, more farm and less 10 mins gg because early game makes up for everything and offlaners get waaaay too much.
Give visage birds some variation of the "x number of hits to kill" as opposed to HP, so they don't just get turned to paste accidentally by gyro/bristle/kunkka etc etc.
Revert base magic resist nerf, change graveskeeper's cloak so it doesn't feel like you're less-than-a-hero until you have some points in the skill.
Make drow's aura not work, or only work partially, on visage birds.
Hero's in a dumb spot, right now. Trilanes aren't that strong, he's only strong in trilanes, but he gets blown up super quick because of his low base armour and basically no magic resist. Also need to fix the drow interactions, because if the hero is reasonably strong in a drow lineup, but weak otherwise... I don't wanna see a visage + drow draft with a visage that's strong even without the drow.
Tinker can be fixed easily by making March no longer affect Ancients & Jungle creeps. No other changes needed. Taking away his ability to farm many camps at once and/or stacked Ancients will drastically increase the time it takes for him to come online. He should be an unstoppable death machine when fully farmed, but at more like 45-50min instead of at 30.
I have no idea how to fix Void without destroying the hero. Lowering base armor by a couple might make the hero too weak and -1 might not be enough to stop off lane viability. I am clueless on this one.
Skywrath I think needs Ancient Seal taken down by 5% per point. Maybe reduce his base int by bit. Nothing major.
Death Prophet, I think might need bigger changes. If you make small changes to her skills, she'll either end up unaffected or crippled. Maybe reduce Strength growth and starting strength? This hero has serious problems of either being totally irrelevant or massively imbalanced.
Shadow Shaman I think is probably the easiest fix. Make the wards have less health, it doesn't even need to be a big decrease either. Easy. If that isn't enough you could make them have higher target priority for creeps. Nothing else needs changing.
I really like the can't rearm the blink cd from dmg, can't backtrack fatal dmg. Those I think would be very good changes that would still keep the hero viable. I also wouldn't be opposed to upping the CD on Chrono about 20% especially at lvl 16.
I think this is one of the best patches ever in dota and that there is much more to explore. I would not like to see any major changes. Of course Im fine with smaller changes one of the best one that Ive seen in this thread was to slightly decrease tinkers base movespeed. Adding a couple of the new heroes to captains mode and Im fine.
If we want to see a big shift in the meta, we pretty much need to partially or wholly reverse the post-TI3 patch. Making the offlane easy was a huge mistake. Push starts with three farmed cores, and the easy offlane caused that to happen. It also incredibly devalued the safelane position, because it destroyed the ability to secure one hero pure freefarm, and that had some major repercussions. Rosh timer does need to settle in some way, though. The current Rosh timer favors Dire immensely, because it's a piece of knowledge that only Dire can capitalize on, and it pushes a lot of pure chance into the game. It's no longer possible for teams to carefully craft teamfight timings to take advantage of the Rosh respawn. They have to gamble for it, and then either take Rosh or wait three minutes for the enemy team to respawn, farm, and prepare for another fight. Pretty ridiculous.
Now that the patch is settling, I'm enjoying this meta from a spectator standpoint. The drafts are predictable but the games have ramped up in entertainment across the board. This past week in EU/CIS and CN dota was amazing.
Blink, Force, and Shadow Blade need reworking as well. It used to be that all three of them were viable in some way or another, but then Force got a minor nerf, Shadow Blade got a major nerf, and Blink got a major buff. Now the choice isn't really there on 90% of heroes. It's just all Blink all the time. There needs to be a rebalancing of sorts so that the decision between them is strategic, rather than just the automatic choice to purchase Blink. Ideally SB would return to being a solid pickup on cores and Force would gain traction as a support pickup, while Blink would remain the go-to for powerful initiators who need nothing other than the ability to get in there.
On September 20 2014 01:27 FHDH wrote: Waga suggested decreasing Void armor so he can't offlane any more. I thought this was a decent idea. Mine was to increase cast point on Chrono. The "can't backtrack lethal damage" idea has some merit.
Entirely disagree. Making him unable to play offlane would be pretty lame and returning Backtrack to its Dota 1 state is just plain dumb. His cast point is already mediocre.
If anything, he should be changed so that the offlane role forces you to commit to 4/4/0. If you're running offlane Void, his skill build should not be comparable to what you would use in the safe lane. There's almost no difference between their item builds either.
On September 20 2014 01:54 Acritter wrote: Blink, Force, and Shadow Blade need reworking as well. It used to be that all three of them were viable in some way or another, but then Force got a minor nerf, Shadow Blade got a major nerf, and Blink got a major buff. Now the choice isn't really there on 90% of heroes. It's just all Blink all the time. There needs to be a rebalancing of sorts so that the decision between them is strategic, rather than just the automatic choice to purchase Blink. Ideally SB would return to being a solid pickup on cores and Force would gain traction as a support pickup, while Blink would remain the go-to for powerful initiators who need nothing other than the ability to get in there.
I am with this man. I don't like Blink dota when those other two items clearly need the love and could be just is viable. Though I do think shadow blade has to high a cost point at 3000. Reworking how it is built to bring it down in cost would go a long way.
On September 20 2014 01:54 Acritter wrote: Blink, Force, and Shadow Blade need reworking as well. It used to be that all three of them were viable in some way or another, but then Force got a minor nerf, Shadow Blade got a major nerf, and Blink got a major buff. Now the choice isn't really there on 90% of heroes. It's just all Blink all the time. There needs to be a rebalancing of sorts so that the decision between them is strategic, rather than just the automatic choice to purchase Blink. Ideally SB would return to being a solid pickup on cores and Force would gain traction as a support pickup, while Blink would remain the go-to for powerful initiators who need nothing other than the ability to get in there.
make chrono'd people forceable. that's enough of a nerf to void. edit: maybe not enough
no way that they will remove the blink rearm interaction since they changed on the DotA instead of fixing the bug on dota 2
I would like to see a decrease on the primal roar cast point, it is fucking bullshit that DK has a instant cast and BM ultimate has that longass animation.
Rework in a skill from Spiritbreaker would be cool since he is pretty much useless now. A nerf on silence in general, orchid, Skywrath, Doom, Krob, even Earth Spirit might need one since the grip is really strong.
Earth Spirit could have the damage escalation (is this the word?) swaped again, from grip to kick. I think would make the hero a little more complex and interesting, nowadays pretty much the only viable build is 1-1-3. Not sure if would be a nerf or a buff though.
I think Silencer aghs might need a nerf, it is really painful to play against as a support t.t
A change on the map like the one that was leaked would be cool too, moving roshan and maybe changing radiant offlane. Changing tree paths is always cool also.
Mek nerf, probably? What about the mana cost being higher than the stats given. Urn price lowered would be cool, but probably isn't necessary
Edit: also i agree that a void carry should be nerfed, void offlane is fine, void carry is boring.
I'm not in favor of encouraging more stealth so buffing SB doesn't sound good to me.
Agree with above on Silencer. Global silence making me 100% useless until it's over is pure shit. It's WoW-level CC "may I use my hero now" crap. Adding all the damage to that...fuck Silencer.
On September 20 2014 01:54 Acritter wrote: Blink, Force, and Shadow Blade need reworking as well. It used to be that all three of them were viable in some way or another, but then Force got a minor nerf, Shadow Blade got a major nerf, and Blink got a major buff. Now the choice isn't really there on 90% of heroes. It's just all Blink all the time. There needs to be a rebalancing of sorts so that the decision between them is strategic, rather than just the automatic choice to purchase Blink. Ideally SB would return to being a solid pickup on cores and Force would gain traction as a support pickup, while Blink would remain the go-to for powerful initiators who need nothing other than the ability to get in there.
I am with this man. I don't like Blink dota when those other two items clearly need the love and could be just is viable. Though I do think shadow blade has to high a cost point at 3000. Reworking how it is built to bring it down in cost would go a long way.
Changing SB cost is as easy as changing SA cost. The item literally has no function other than as a "recipe" to SB. I think stats are the real key here, though, as well as shorter cooldown and longer duration. Yes, that does mean essentially reversing the earlier changes to it.
Force Staff probably needs a Sobi Mask instead of 300-odd gold in the recipe, and +75% mana regen as a complete item.
Blink mainly needs an increased gold cost to delay the heroes who buy it a little, maybe to 2250 or 2350. I'd also like to see its cooldown go to 20 seconds, with Force Staff going down to 15 seconds. That seems an appropriate division of labor.
On September 20 2014 01:27 FHDH wrote: Rhasta is fine. He's slow, squishy, farms like shit and has no semi-carry potential.
Waga suggested decreasing Void armor so he can't offlane any more. I thought this was a decent idea. Mine was to increase cast point on Chrono. The "can't backtrack lethal damage" idea has some merit.
I have no idea what you do about Tinker that doesn't remove him from the meta. I think both Tinker and Void should stay, just not be so overpowering. Taking E-blade off of Rearm isn't a bad idea as it eliminates the horrifying "I can kill guys on your team over and over and over again without stopping" aspect of a fully-built Tinker. Already Tinker who is prevented from snowballing is kinda pathetic.
Skywrath is clearly overpowered but I don't have any suggestions.
Tinker has not received buffs directly in t he last patches, so why destroy him completely with a no e-blade rearm? His indirect buff was the removal of mana cost to blink dagger, allowing him to have more mana pool to kill stuff, thus giving him bigger impact in games. If anything they might want to consider increasing all his spell cost by 15. that alone would disallow many less killing combo's per BoT travel.
I think void needs a nerf to his ulti cooldown, like other suggested something like 120 all levels and 90 with aghs all levels would be great and force him into more of a hard carry / blackhole type of hero, instead of liberally throwing chrono's around for solo support pickoffs.
Btw any timely ( 35 minutes or so ) fully build tinker means that his team has literally no farm, so you basically didn't pick the right hero's to deal with him.
Skywrath mage Arcane bolt casting range decreased by 100
Shadow shaman Amount of wards now are 7-8-10 instead of 10 all levels
Mirana Cooldown of leap decreased by 5 on all levels Cooldown of arrow increased by 5 on all levels
Invoker Cold snap damage per level of quas is now 9 instead of 7
Crystal maiden Increased movement speed by 5 Increase casting range of crystal nova by 50
Lycan Howl is now in 1000 AOE instead of global Summon wolves cooldown increased to 42 on all levels
Death prophet Number of ghosts are now 4/10/16 instead of 4/12/21 Increased cryp swarm cooldown to 10 on all levels
Doom bringer Devour gold now 15/30/45/60 instead of 25/50/75/100
Lifestealer: Rage now also increases movement speed by 25
Razor Can now only have 1 ulti running at same time Decreased str growth from 2.3 to 2.1 Increased agility growth from 2 to 2.1
Troll warlord: Fervor stacks are now applied to hero's instead of troll, similar to fury swipes. Stacks dissapear after 5 seconds of not being hit
To just name a few, i think buffing too many hero's will competely change the meta into another again. I really like the current meta and how many hero's are picked, just wish that the bans are not always the same OP hero's and that banning will be to prevent good counter hero's from begin picked
I wouldn't mind a change to the item progression on force staff. That 900 gold for the recipe might as well be 2000 for a support. Its why I love euls so much.
On September 20 2014 01:54 Acritter wrote: Blink, Force, and Shadow Blade need reworking as well. It used to be that all three of them were viable in some way or another, but then Force got a minor nerf, Shadow Blade got a major nerf, and Blink got a major buff. Now the choice isn't really there on 90% of heroes. It's just all Blink all the time. There needs to be a rebalancing of sorts so that the decision between them is strategic, rather than just the automatic choice to purchase Blink. Ideally SB would return to being a solid pickup on cores and Force would gain traction as a support pickup, while Blink would remain the go-to for powerful initiators who need nothing other than the ability to get in there.
make chrono'd people forceable. that's enough of a nerf to void. edit: maybe not enough
Definitely not enough. He needs some combination of a stats nerf, a base damage nerf, a base armor nerf, and a cast point nerf (to all spells). He's not incredibly overpowered in pro matches at the moment, but he has no place in pubs the way he is, and the nerfs do need to center around that. It's just absurd that the strongest pub heroes right now are the ones that negate all interaction. EmberSpiritvania was a jolly place in comparison.
Like people want void to get 6 nerfs as if it isn't the combination of all of those factors that make him strong and removing 1-2 of them is already plenty.
On September 20 2014 01:27 FHDH wrote: Rhasta is fine. He's slow, squishy, farms like shit and has no semi-carry potential.
Waga suggested decreasing Void armor so he can't offlane any more. I thought this was a decent idea. Mine was to increase cast point on Chrono. The "can't backtrack lethal damage" idea has some merit.
I have no idea what you do about Tinker that doesn't remove him from the meta. I think both Tinker and Void should stay, just not be so overpowering. Taking E-blade off of Rearm isn't a bad idea as it eliminates the horrifying "I can kill guys on your team over and over and over again without stopping" aspect of a fully-built Tinker. Already Tinker who is prevented from snowballing is kinda pathetic.
Skywrath is clearly overpowered but I don't have any suggestions.
Tinker has not received buffs directly in t he last patches, so why destroy him completely with a no e-blade rearm? His indirect buff was the removal of mana cost to blink dagger, allowing him to have more mana pool to kill stuff, thus giving him bigger impact in games. If anything they might want to consider increasing all his spell cost by 15. that alone would disallow many less killing combo's per BoT travel.
I think void needs a nerf to his ulti cooldown, like other suggested something like 120 all levels and 90 with aghs all levels would be great and force him into more of a hard carry / blackhole type of hero, instead of liberally throwing chrono's around for solo support pickoffs.
Btw any timely ( 35 minutes or so ) fully build tinker means that his team has literally no farm, so you basically didn't pick the right hero's to deal with him.
Skywrath mage Arcane bolt casting range decreased by 100
Shadow shaman Amount of wards now are 7-8-10 instead of 10 all levels
Mirana Cooldown of leap decreased by 5 on all levels Cooldown of arrow increased by 5 on all levels
Invoker Cold snap damage per level of quas is now 9 instead of 7
Crystal maiden Increased movement speed by 5 Increase casting range of crystal nova by 50
Lycan Howl is now in 1000 AOE instead of global Summon wolves cooldown increased to 42 on all levels
Death prophet Number of ghosts are now 4/10/16 instead of 4/12/21 Increased cryp swarm cooldown to 10 on all levels
Doom bringer Devour gold now 15/30/45/60 instead of 25/50/75/100
Lifestealer: Rage now also increases movement speed by 25
Razor Can now only have 1 ulti running at same time Decreased str growth from 2.3 to 2.1 Increased agility growth from 2 to 2.1
Troll warlord: Fervor stacks are now applied to hero's instead of troll, similar to fury swipes. Stacks dissapear after 5 seconds of not being hit
To just name a few, i think buffing too many hero's will competely change the meta into another again. I really like the current meta and how many hero's are picked, just wish that the bans are not always the same OP hero's and that banning will be to prevent good counter hero's from begin picked
Untrue on Tinker. He's good primarily because it's no longer required for a mid hero to actually do anything. It used to be that picking Tinker and going mid would set your team incredibly far behind while the enemy hero won the other lanes for your team and took things totally out of control. That's no longer the case, so he can farm cheerfully while the enemy mid is forced to farm too (or be Brewmaster). The fix is a nerf for Tinker or a change to the entire meta. I'd prefer the latter, but we both know what's actually going to happen.
Okay, make Void's cast point worse. It's not like you can Force Staff/Blink out of his initiation combo or anything. It's not even that hard to interrupt him during the space between Time Walk and Chrono.
Please don't increase Blink cost. It's so hard to farm in some games as a support already and doing things like increasing the cost and/or cooldown isn't going to stop it from being the item of choice, just make support lives more painful.
On September 20 2014 02:10 CosmicSpiral wrote: Okay, make Void's cast point worse. It's not like you can Force Staff/Blink out of his initiation combo or anything. It's not even that hard to interrupt him during the space between Time Walk and Chrono.
The cast point on his ult could use work. The fact that I never see him instantly hit with the sheep stick or stunned in pro games makes me think it is way to fast. Some room to turn him into a chicken wouldn't be bad.
On September 20 2014 02:10 CosmicSpiral wrote: Okay, make Void's cast point worse. It's not like you can Force Staff/Blink out of his initiation combo or anything. It's not even that hard to interrupt him during the space between Time Walk and Chrono.
The cast point on his ult could use work. The fact that I never see him instantly hit with the sheep stick or stunned in pro games makes me think it is way to fast. Some room to turn him into a chicken wouldn't be bad.
This. It's doable but .3 is a tiny amount of time.
On September 20 2014 02:11 FHDH wrote: Please don't increase Blink cost. It's so hard to farm in some games as a support already and doing things like increasing the cost and/or cooldown isn't going to stop it from being the item of choice, just make support lives more painful.
Supports used to get by with the famous 25 minutes brown boots wand. This patch is not the norm. It is the outlier.
Graveskeeper's cloak: Gains a charge whenever allied heroes (or himself) within an 1100 radius accumulate 150 damage collectively. Lasts 5 seconds Stacks up to 3 times.
Provides 2/2/3/4 armour and 2%/5%/6%/7% per stack.
Summon familiars: Familiars changed from 300/450/600 health, to requiring 3/4/5 hits to kill Familiars changed from dealing 10 + 8/14/22 damage per charge, to dealing 56/98/154 damage, with a charge applying a debuff to the familiar of -12.5% damage per attack, stacking up to 7 times and lasting 15 seconds per charge. This should make howl and drow aura only apply 12.5% of their benefit to an unstacked familiar, meaning a level 3 visage familiar that's receiving +50 damage from the drow aura would only be doing 25.5 damage per attack, as opposed to 60.
Aghanims upgrade: Summons 3 familiars. Familiar hits to kill reduced to 2/3/4 Bounty reduced to 75 Sight range increased to 800
On September 20 2014 02:07 pedrlz wrote: Also, why nobody is talking about Liquid Fire? most bullshit spell ever lol
Because jakiro only has that 1 ability and he's got the worst other stuff (cast point, turnrate, etc) so he deserves something OP out of pity
He is kinda broke right now, though. Not mega broke, but kinda broke. Games feel so easy with core Jak.
First, let me laugh in glee as my old theorycrafting has finally become the object of much whine.
Second, are you saying that core Jakiro is easy to use in pubs or that core Jakiro lacks sufficient counter-strategies at all levels of play?
Pros can do whatever the fuck they want. Core Jak is good there, but not overpowering. In pubs, if you have even the slightest semblance of team organization, it's stupidly easy to pick core Jak and win with him. Nobody's ever done it to me that I can recall, which is strange.
On September 20 2014 02:11 FHDH wrote: Please don't increase Blink cost. It's so hard to farm in some games as a support already and doing things like increasing the cost and/or cooldown isn't going to stop it from being the item of choice, just make support lives more painful.
Supports used to get by with the famous 25 minutes brown boots wand. This patch is not the norm. It is the outlier.
On September 20 2014 02:10 CosmicSpiral wrote: Okay, make Void's cast point worse. It's not like you can Force Staff/Blink out of his initiation combo or anything. It's not even that hard to interrupt him during the space between Time Walk and Chrono.
The cast point on his ult could use work. The fact that I never see him instantly hit with the sheep stick or stunned in pro games makes me think it is way to fast. Some room to turn him into a chicken wouldn't be bad.
I've seen plenty of pro players react in time with Euls, Sheep, Silence, Force, Blink, etc. when they're anticipating him. Back when Void was considered a crappy hard carry, this was one of the primary complaints from Void players. Now suddenly it's too fast? Nothing's changed on that front. People want all kinds of nerfs on shit that he's had for years.
On September 20 2014 02:15 Sn0_Man wrote: I mean it's definitely doable to hex void pre-ult but there's turnrate concerns and if u have a hex he has a bkb.
Of course the turn rate in the main issue, that is why I think his cast point should go up or a slight channel time. At least then Lion or Rasta could be used to deal with his ass. Or some hero with a zero travel distance stun. Sheep isn't really viable since he will always have a BKB.
I just want him to up in slightly more effort before everyone can't move or get away from him.
On September 20 2014 02:15 Sn0_Man wrote: I mean it's definitely doable to hex void pre-ult but there's turnrate concerns and if u have a hex he has a bkb.
On September 20 2014 02:11 FHDH wrote: Please don't increase Blink cost. It's so hard to farm in some games as a support already and doing things like increasing the cost and/or cooldown isn't going to stop it from being the item of choice, just make support lives more painful.
Supports used to get by with the famous 25 minutes brown boots wand. This patch is not the norm. It is the outlier.
On September 20 2014 02:15 Sn0_Man wrote: I mean it's definitely doable to hex void pre-ult but there's turnrate concerns and if u have a hex he has a bkb.
Of course the turn rate in the main issue, that is why I think his cast point should go up or a slight channel time. At least then Lion or Rasta could be used to deal with his ass. Or some hero with a zero travel distance stun. Sheep isn't really viable since he will always have a BKB.
I just want him to up in slightly more effort before everyone can't move or get away from him.
Why are you saying that hero-based hexes are unable to handle him while item-based hexes are? Or are you talking about relative game times?
On September 20 2014 02:11 FHDH wrote: Please don't increase Blink cost. It's so hard to farm in some games as a support already and doing things like increasing the cost and/or cooldown isn't going to stop it from being the item of choice, just make support lives more painful.
Supports used to get by with the famous 25 minutes brown boots wand. This patch is not the norm. It is the outlier.
Fun game bro bring it back
I played it without bitching. Why can't you?
I wonder if we can stop this thread from being an oldschooler dickswinging contest? Two can play that game but it's not a fun game or interesting or on topic.
On September 20 2014 02:07 pedrlz wrote: Also, why nobody is talking about Liquid Fire? most bullshit spell ever lol
Because jakiro only has that 1 ability and he's got the worst other stuff (cast point, turnrate, etc) so he deserves something OP out of pity
He is kinda broke right now, though. Not mega broke, but kinda broke. Games feel so easy with core Jak.
First, let me laugh in glee as my old theorycrafting has finally become the object of much whine.
Second, are you saying that core Jakiro is easy to use in pubs or that core Jakiro lacks sufficient counter-strategies at all levels of play?
Pros can do whatever the fuck they want. Core Jak is good there, but not overpowering. In pubs, if you have even the slightest semblance of team organization, it's stupidly easy to pick core Jak and win with him. Nobody's ever done it to me that I can recall, which is strange.
Eh, is that really bad though? No one's crying for Necrophos and Abaddon nerfs even though they dominate pub winrates. Can you imagine how bad Omniknight would get if he was adjusted for pro play? He's already second despite all the complaining about his flaws.
On September 20 2014 02:11 FHDH wrote: Please don't increase Blink cost. It's so hard to farm in some games as a support already and doing things like increasing the cost and/or cooldown isn't going to stop it from being the item of choice, just make support lives more painful.
Supports used to get by with the famous 25 minutes brown boots wand. This patch is not the norm. It is the outlier.
Fun game bro bring it back
I played it without bitching. Why can't you?
I wonder if we can stop this thread from being an oldschooler dickswinging contest? Two can play that game but it's not a fun game or interesting or on topic.
Part of what's wrong with this patch is that every position is a farming position. That's what's contributed to this constant 5man and early push annoyance. Of course I'm going to object to you saying that a ridiculously low-cost item (for all it delivers) is too "hard to farm" already.
If you really think it's so difficult to get, then just build Force Staff. It's still an item.
On September 20 2014 02:11 FHDH wrote: Please don't increase Blink cost. It's so hard to farm in some games as a support already and doing things like increasing the cost and/or cooldown isn't going to stop it from being the item of choice, just make support lives more painful.
Supports used to get by with the famous 25 minutes brown boots wand. This patch is not the norm. It is the outlier.
Fun game bro bring it back
I played it without bitching. Why can't you?
I wonder if we can stop this thread from being an oldschooler dickswinging contest? Two can play that game but it's not a fun game or interesting or on topic.
I mean sure i don't want the old brown boots + wand at 25 mins meta but all your balance requests boil down to "I suck ass at farming as support please give me free items anyway" it gets boring.
On September 20 2014 02:07 pedrlz wrote: Also, why nobody is talking about Liquid Fire? most bullshit spell ever lol
Because jakiro only has that 1 ability and he's got the worst other stuff (cast point, turnrate, etc) so he deserves something OP out of pity
He is kinda broke right now, though. Not mega broke, but kinda broke. Games feel so easy with core Jak.
First, let me laugh in glee as my old theorycrafting has finally become the object of much whine.
Second, are you saying that core Jakiro is easy to use in pubs or that core Jakiro lacks sufficient counter-strategies at all levels of play?
Pros can do whatever the fuck they want. Core Jak is good there, but not overpowering. In pubs, if you have even the slightest semblance of team organization, it's stupidly easy to pick core Jak and win with him. Nobody's ever done it to me that I can recall, which is strange.
Eh, is that really bad though? No one's crying for Necrophos and Abaddon nerfs even though they dominate pub winrates. Can you imagine how bad Omniknight would get if he was adjusted for pro play? He's already second despite all the complaining about his flaws.
On September 20 2014 02:11 FHDH wrote: Please don't increase Blink cost. It's so hard to farm in some games as a support already and doing things like increasing the cost and/or cooldown isn't going to stop it from being the item of choice, just make support lives more painful.
Supports used to get by with the famous 25 minutes brown boots wand. This patch is not the norm. It is the outlier.
Fun game bro bring it back
I played it without bitching. Why can't you?
I wonder if we can stop this thread from being an oldschooler dickswinging contest? Two can play that game but it's not a fun game or interesting or on topic.
all your balance requests boil down to "I suck ass at farming as support please give me free items anyway" it gets boring.
Get real dude. If you're going to try and sit on my nuts at least say something that is close to accurate.
On September 20 2014 02:11 FHDH wrote: Please don't increase Blink cost. It's so hard to farm in some games as a support already and doing things like increasing the cost and/or cooldown isn't going to stop it from being the item of choice, just make support lives more painful.
Supports used to get by with the famous 25 minutes brown boots wand. This patch is not the norm. It is the outlier.
Fun game bro bring it back
I played it without bitching. Why can't you?
I wonder if we can stop this thread from being an oldschooler dickswinging contest? Two can play that game but it's not a fun game or interesting or on topic.
all your balance requests boil down to "I suck ass at farming as support please give me free items anyway" it gets boring.
Get real dude. If you're going to try and sit on my nuts at least say something that is close to accurate.
Blink is stupid cheap. Farming it shouldn't be an issue.
On September 20 2014 02:11 FHDH wrote: Please don't increase Blink cost. It's so hard to farm in some games as a support already and doing things like increasing the cost and/or cooldown isn't going to stop it from being the item of choice, just make support lives more painful.
Supports used to get by with the famous 25 minutes brown boots wand. This patch is not the norm. It is the outlier.
Fun game bro bring it back
I played it without bitching. Why can't you?
I wonder if we can stop this thread from being an oldschooler dickswinging contest? Two can play that game but it's not a fun game or interesting or on topic.
I mean sure i don't want the old brown boots + wand at 25 mins meta but all your balance requests boil down to "I suck ass at farming as support please give me free items anyway" it gets boring.
I like the meta where supports get more tools to work with, but that is just me. The days of being super poor were not as interesting for me. I respect peoples opinion that they want to go back to that era because they found it more enjoyable, but I am not going to change my mind.
Any claim that the argument is anything more than a matter of taste is silly, however.
On September 20 2014 02:07 pedrlz wrote: Also, why nobody is talking about Liquid Fire? most bullshit spell ever lol
Because jakiro only has that 1 ability and he's got the worst other stuff (cast point, turnrate, etc) so he deserves something OP out of pity
He is kinda broke right now, though. Not mega broke, but kinda broke. Games feel so easy with core Jak.
First, let me laugh in glee as my old theorycrafting has finally become the object of much whine.
Second, are you saying that core Jakiro is easy to use in pubs or that core Jakiro lacks sufficient counter-strategies at all levels of play?
Pros can do whatever the fuck they want. Core Jak is good there, but not overpowering. In pubs, if you have even the slightest semblance of team organization, it's stupidly easy to pick core Jak and win with him. Nobody's ever done it to me that I can recall, which is strange.
Eh, is that really bad though? No one's crying for Necrophos and Abaddon nerfs even though they dominate pub winrates. Can you imagine how bad Omniknight would get if he was adjusted for pro play? He's already second despite all the complaining about his flaws.
I just called him kinda broke, not mega broke.
Wasn't time walk buffed at some point making it so he could move farther? I seem to remember that. That could be another solution, because right now its is really hard to see void coming, especially when pushing.
On September 20 2014 02:11 FHDH wrote: Please don't increase Blink cost. It's so hard to farm in some games as a support already and doing things like increasing the cost and/or cooldown isn't going to stop it from being the item of choice, just make support lives more painful.
Supports used to get by with the famous 25 minutes brown boots wand. This patch is not the norm. It is the outlier.
Fun game bro bring it back
I played it without bitching. Why can't you?
I wonder if we can stop this thread from being an oldschooler dickswinging contest? Two can play that game but it's not a fun game or interesting or on topic.
all your balance requests boil down to "I suck ass at farming as support please give me free items anyway" it gets boring.
Get real dude. If you're going to try and sit on my nuts at least say something that is close to accurate.
Blink is stupid cheap. Farming it shouldn't be an issue.
Most games it isn't, but the games that it is, as a support I find the suggestion of an additional 1-200g just needlessly painful. I understand the desire to bring SB/FS/Blink more on par but I don't like this approach.
It's like the suggestions to nerf Rhasta. Maybe other supports should just be better, not Rhasta made worse.
On September 20 2014 02:07 pedrlz wrote: Also, why nobody is talking about Liquid Fire? most bullshit spell ever lol
Because jakiro only has that 1 ability and he's got the worst other stuff (cast point, turnrate, etc) so he deserves something OP out of pity
He is kinda broke right now, though. Not mega broke, but kinda broke. Games feel so easy with core Jak.
First, let me laugh in glee as my old theorycrafting has finally become the object of much whine.
Second, are you saying that core Jakiro is easy to use in pubs or that core Jakiro lacks sufficient counter-strategies at all levels of play?
Pros can do whatever the fuck they want. Core Jak is good there, but not overpowering. In pubs, if you have even the slightest semblance of team organization, it's stupidly easy to pick core Jak and win with him. Nobody's ever done it to me that I can recall, which is strange.
Eh, is that really bad though? No one's crying for Necrophos and Abaddon nerfs even though they dominate pub winrates. Can you imagine how bad Omniknight would get if he was adjusted for pro play? He's already second despite all the complaining about his flaws.
I just called him kinda broke, not mega broke.
Wasn't time walk buffed at some point making it so he could move farther? I seem to remember that. That could be another solution, because right now its is really hard to see void coming, especially when pushing.
You're a little confused. The discussion on this chain was Jakiro, not Void.
On September 20 2014 02:07 pedrlz wrote: Also, why nobody is talking about Liquid Fire? most bullshit spell ever lol
Because jakiro only has that 1 ability and he's got the worst other stuff (cast point, turnrate, etc) so he deserves something OP out of pity
He is kinda broke right now, though. Not mega broke, but kinda broke. Games feel so easy with core Jak.
First, let me laugh in glee as my old theorycrafting has finally become the object of much whine.
Second, are you saying that core Jakiro is easy to use in pubs or that core Jakiro lacks sufficient counter-strategies at all levels of play?
Pros can do whatever the fuck they want. Core Jak is good there, but not overpowering. In pubs, if you have even the slightest semblance of team organization, it's stupidly easy to pick core Jak and win with him. Nobody's ever done it to me that I can recall, which is strange.
Eh, is that really bad though? No one's crying for Necrophos and Abaddon nerfs even though they dominate pub winrates. Can you imagine how bad Omniknight would get if he was adjusted for pro play? He's already second despite all the complaining about his flaws.
I just called him kinda broke, not mega broke.
Wasn't time walk buffed at some point making it so he could move farther? I seem to remember that. That could be another solution, because right now its is really hard to see void coming, especially when pushing.
You're a little confused. The discussion on this chain was Jakiro, not Void.
Shit, your right.
But my point still stands that time walk has one of the longest ranges for a blink in the game at 1300, with the chrono range of 600. That can be nerfed and I will have no problem at all. No wonder I never see him coming.
tinker is only a problem in pubs. in pro games he is one of many choices teams can go and not one that is easily the best in all cases. i dont think tinker needs a nerf at all, maybe fix the "rearm broken blinkdagger" thing, but thats it. the hero is good as he is. (although he is super annoying to play against). he has a whooping 42% winratio in 6.81, thats pretty weak.
my hopes and dreams for 6.82:
nerfs: lycan - take away all his bonus stats on his ultimate except the movementspeed. no more crit, no more better BAT, no more increased night vision. maybe then the hero is not an autoban for the first time in years.
razor - decrease the damage on plasmafield by a lot. maybe cap it at 320 damage (from 370)
void - revoke the turnrate buff he recieved last patch.
krobe - maybe 2 base int and one armor less to make her more vulnerable in lane
skywrath - give him a castpoint on his silence please. 1000 range instant silence with increased magic damage is way to good.
doom - i have no idea. maybe give him one less base armor again or something. he doesnt need much anyway.
and for buffs:
ogre - bloodlust has a chance to multicast a second bloodlust buff on the target with 50% the value of the spell. (chance on 50% stronger bloodlust)
night stalker - void lasts 6 seconds during nighttime (from 4 seconds)
necrophos - reduce deathpuls cooldown by 1 second on each level.
On September 20 2014 02:32 Plansix wrote: Wasn't time walk buffed at some point making it so he could move farther? I seem to remember that. That could be another solution, because right now its is really hard to see void coming, especially when pushing.
Not in Dota 2 history. There were plenty of other changes though.
On September 20 2014 02:07 pedrlz wrote: Also, why nobody is talking about Liquid Fire? most bullshit spell ever lol
Because jakiro only has that 1 ability and he's got the worst other stuff (cast point, turnrate, etc) so he deserves something OP out of pity
He is kinda broke right now, though. Not mega broke, but kinda broke. Games feel so easy with core Jak.
First, let me laugh in glee as my old theorycrafting has finally become the object of much whine.
Second, are you saying that core Jakiro is easy to use in pubs or that core Jakiro lacks sufficient counter-strategies at all levels of play?
Pros can do whatever the fuck they want. Core Jak is good there, but not overpowering. In pubs, if you have even the slightest semblance of team organization, it's stupidly easy to pick core Jak and win with him. Nobody's ever done it to me that I can recall, which is strange.
Eh, is that really bad though? No one's crying for Necrophos and Abaddon nerfs even though they dominate pub winrates. Can you imagine how bad Omniknight would get if he was adjusted for pro play? He's already second despite all the complaining about his flaws.
I just called him kinda broke, not mega broke.
As long as everyone else seems to be in the dark, might as well milk it for easy wins.
On September 20 2014 02:11 FHDH wrote: Please don't increase Blink cost. It's so hard to farm in some games as a support already and doing things like increasing the cost and/or cooldown isn't going to stop it from being the item of choice, just make support lives more painful.
Supports used to get by with the famous 25 minutes brown boots wand. This patch is not the norm. It is the outlier.
Fun game bro bring it back
I played it without bitching. Why can't you?
I wonder if we can stop this thread from being an oldschooler dickswinging contest? Two can play that game but it's not a fun game or interesting or on topic.
all your balance requests boil down to "I suck ass at farming as support please give me free items anyway" it gets boring.
Get real dude. If you're going to try and sit on my nuts at least say something that is close to accurate.
Blink is stupid cheap. Farming it shouldn't be an issue.
Most games it isn't, but the games that it is, as a support I find the suggestion of an additional 1-200g just needlessly painful. I understand the desire to bring SB/FS/Blink more on par but I don't like this approach.
It's like the suggestions to nerf Rhasta. Maybe other supports should just be better, not Rhasta made worse.
no, dota has enough power creep already. it's time to make the game a little less about whose annoying bullshit is more bullshit
On September 20 2014 02:07 pedrlz wrote: Also, why nobody is talking about Liquid Fire? most bullshit spell ever lol
Because jakiro only has that 1 ability and he's got the worst other stuff (cast point, turnrate, etc) so he deserves something OP out of pity
He is kinda broke right now, though. Not mega broke, but kinda broke. Games feel so easy with core Jak.
First, let me laugh in glee as my old theorycrafting has finally become the object of much whine.
Second, are you saying that core Jakiro is easy to use in pubs or that core Jakiro lacks sufficient counter-strategies at all levels of play?
Pros can do whatever the fuck they want. Core Jak is good there, but not overpowering. In pubs, if you have even the slightest semblance of team organization, it's stupidly easy to pick core Jak and win with him. Nobody's ever done it to me that I can recall, which is strange.
Eh, is that really bad though? No one's crying for Necrophos and Abaddon nerfs even though they dominate pub winrates. Can you imagine how bad Omniknight would get if he was adjusted for pro play? He's already second despite all the complaining about his flaws.
Void is very frustrating to play against, that's all. Spirit breaker was less obnoxious when he was nerfed just for the sake of pubs. Tons of heroes won't ever be more than niche picks in progames because of pubs and it's fine this way, void should be amongst them.
On September 20 2014 02:07 pedrlz wrote: Also, why nobody is talking about Liquid Fire? most bullshit spell ever lol
Because jakiro only has that 1 ability and he's got the worst other stuff (cast point, turnrate, etc) so he deserves something OP out of pity
He is kinda broke right now, though. Not mega broke, but kinda broke. Games feel so easy with core Jak.
First, let me laugh in glee as my old theorycrafting has finally become the object of much whine.
Second, are you saying that core Jakiro is easy to use in pubs or that core Jakiro lacks sufficient counter-strategies at all levels of play?
Pros can do whatever the fuck they want. Core Jak is good there, but not overpowering. In pubs, if you have even the slightest semblance of team organization, it's stupidly easy to pick core Jak and win with him. Nobody's ever done it to me that I can recall, which is strange.
Eh, is that really bad though? No one's crying for Necrophos and Abaddon nerfs even though they dominate pub winrates. Can you imagine how bad Omniknight would get if he was adjusted for pro play? He's already second despite all the complaining about his flaws.
Void is very frustrating to play against, that's all. Spirit breaker was less obnoxious when he was nerfed just for the sake of pubs. Tons of heroes won't ever be more than niche picks in progames because of pubs and it's fine this way, void should be amongst them.
Right, Void was fine when he was picked rarely in sync with WD or AA. Now a Void pick works in any lineup. Time to change that
These past two patches has been the most boring facerush dota.
I want to see lane control and creep farm play a much bigger role. As a broodwar TvP fan, I love tension and farm/control wars. I'd like to see more of the economical/strategical aspect of dota, and less of the objective based one. - Buff towers - Make creep gold/xp matter more (nerf to passive gold, hero kill gold/xp?) - Significant Roshan core changes, so that we get rid of the immensely boring wait-for-roshan cycles. - Make right clicks and individual skill matter more.
Spells and mobility are way too king. An extension of this is that there doesn't exist a captain even in the world's best teams that can consistently draft well in every game, and we end up so many games being decided by drafts and not player skill. Never has so many bad teams beaten top teams at every other game. DotA is a game in constant evolvement due to patching, and as a result we end up with drafting never being close to mastered. I want to see more of the predictability of 2013 dota and former 4-1 styles that boiled down to skill and execution, not just drafts.
On September 20 2014 02:11 FHDH wrote: Please don't increase Blink cost. It's so hard to farm in some games as a support already and doing things like increasing the cost and/or cooldown isn't going to stop it from being the item of choice, just make support lives more painful.
Supports used to get by with the famous 25 minutes brown boots wand. This patch is not the norm. It is the outlier.
Fun game bro bring it back
I played it without bitching. Why can't you?
I wonder if we can stop this thread from being an oldschooler dickswinging contest? Two can play that game but it's not a fun game or interesting or on topic.
all your balance requests boil down to "I suck ass at farming as support please give me free items anyway" it gets boring.
Get real dude. If you're going to try and sit on my nuts at least say something that is close to accurate.
Blink is stupid cheap. Farming it shouldn't be an issue.
Most games it isn't, but the games that it is, as a support I find the suggestion of an additional 1-200g just needlessly painful. I understand the desire to bring SB/FS/Blink more on par but I don't like this approach.
It's like the suggestions to nerf Rhasta. Maybe other supports should just be better, not Rhasta made worse.
no, dota has enough power creep already. it's time to make the game a little less about whose annoying bullshit is more bullshit
Powercreeping has slowly taken over Dota and its killing it slowly.
On September 20 2014 02:11 FHDH wrote: Please don't increase Blink cost. It's so hard to farm in some games as a support already and doing things like increasing the cost and/or cooldown isn't going to stop it from being the item of choice, just make support lives more painful.
Supports used to get by with the famous 25 minutes brown boots wand. This patch is not the norm. It is the outlier.
Fun game bro bring it back
I played it without bitching. Why can't you?
I wonder if we can stop this thread from being an oldschooler dickswinging contest? Two can play that game but it's not a fun game or interesting or on topic.
all your balance requests boil down to "I suck ass at farming as support please give me free items anyway" it gets boring.
Get real dude. If you're going to try and sit on my nuts at least say something that is close to accurate.
Blink is stupid cheap. Farming it shouldn't be an issue.
Most games it isn't, but the games that it is, as a support I find the suggestion of an additional 1-200g just needlessly painful. I understand the desire to bring SB/FS/Blink more on par but I don't like this approach.
It's like the suggestions to nerf Rhasta. Maybe other supports should just be better, not Rhasta made worse.
Depends entirely on which support. Supports that are farming blink daggers as their core won't give a shit about the extra 30 seconds on their timing, and supports that aren't farming for a blink dagger explicitly can afford to get it another minute or two later without being too sad about it.
On September 20 2014 02:32 Plansix wrote: Wasn't time walk buffed at some point making it so he could move farther? I seem to remember that. That could be another solution, because right now its is really hard to see void coming, especially when pushing.
Not in Dota 2 history. There were plenty of other changes though.
On September 20 2014 02:07 pedrlz wrote: Also, why nobody is talking about Liquid Fire? most bullshit spell ever lol
Because jakiro only has that 1 ability and he's got the worst other stuff (cast point, turnrate, etc) so he deserves something OP out of pity
He is kinda broke right now, though. Not mega broke, but kinda broke. Games feel so easy with core Jak.
First, let me laugh in glee as my old theorycrafting has finally become the object of much whine.
Second, are you saying that core Jakiro is easy to use in pubs or that core Jakiro lacks sufficient counter-strategies at all levels of play?
Pros can do whatever the fuck they want. Core Jak is good there, but not overpowering. In pubs, if you have even the slightest semblance of team organization, it's stupidly easy to pick core Jak and win with him. Nobody's ever done it to me that I can recall, which is strange.
Eh, is that really bad though? No one's crying for Necrophos and Abaddon nerfs even though they dominate pub winrates. Can you imagine how bad Omniknight would get if he was adjusted for pro play? He's already second despite all the complaining about his flaws.
I just called him kinda broke, not mega broke.
As long as everyone else seems to be in the dark, might as well milk it for easy wins.
The game's not about milking easy wins, it's about having fun. Core Jakiro is fun in the "I didn't realize this was possible" category, but not really outside of that.
On September 20 2014 02:38 nojok wrote: Void is very frustrating to play against, that's all. Spirit breaker was less obnoxious when he was nerfed just for the sake of pubs. Tons of heroes won't ever be more than niche picks in progames because of pubs and it's fine this way, void should be amongst them.
There are plenty of ways to nerf him while leaving him viable in both pubs and pro games.
On September 20 2014 02:41 Acritter wrote: The game's not about milking easy wins, it's about having fun. Core Jakiro is fun in the "I didn't realize this was possible" category, but not really outside of that.
Well I'd disagree because core Wraith King actually exists and people pick it.
On September 20 2014 02:11 FHDH wrote: Please don't increase Blink cost. It's so hard to farm in some games as a support already and doing things like increasing the cost and/or cooldown isn't going to stop it from being the item of choice, just make support lives more painful.
Supports used to get by with the famous 25 minutes brown boots wand. This patch is not the norm. It is the outlier.
Fun game bro bring it back
I played it without bitching. Why can't you?
I wonder if we can stop this thread from being an oldschooler dickswinging contest? Two can play that game but it's not a fun game or interesting or on topic.
all your balance requests boil down to "I suck ass at farming as support please give me free items anyway" it gets boring.
Get real dude. If you're going to try and sit on my nuts at least say something that is close to accurate.
Blink is stupid cheap. Farming it shouldn't be an issue.
Most games it isn't, but the games that it is, as a support I find the suggestion of an additional 1-200g just needlessly painful. I understand the desire to bring SB/FS/Blink more on par but I don't like this approach.
It's like the suggestions to nerf Rhasta. Maybe other supports should just be better, not Rhasta made worse.
no, dota has enough power creep already. it's time to make the game a little less about whose annoying bullshit is more bullshit
I would agree with this as a general principle but not in this spectrum. Other than Skywrath how many of the heroes who are truly perverting the power curve are played as supports? Obviously as he's very popular in pro play and moderately popular in pubs Shadow Shaman is getting some hate but I don't see that it's justified.
On September 20 2014 02:07 pedrlz wrote: Also, why nobody is talking about Liquid Fire? most bullshit spell ever lol
Because jakiro only has that 1 ability and he's got the worst other stuff (cast point, turnrate, etc) so he deserves something OP out of pity
He is kinda broke right now, though. Not mega broke, but kinda broke. Games feel so easy with core Jak.
First, let me laugh in glee as my old theorycrafting has finally become the object of much whine.
Second, are you saying that core Jakiro is easy to use in pubs or that core Jakiro lacks sufficient counter-strategies at all levels of play?
Pros can do whatever the fuck they want. Core Jak is good there, but not overpowering. In pubs, if you have even the slightest semblance of team organization, it's stupidly easy to pick core Jak and win with him. Nobody's ever done it to me that I can recall, which is strange.
Eh, is that really bad though? No one's crying for Necrophos and Abaddon nerfs even though they dominate pub winrates. Can you imagine how bad Omniknight would get if he was adjusted for pro play? He's already second despite all the complaining about his flaws.
Void is very frustrating to play against, that's all. Spirit breaker was less obnoxious when he was nerfed just for the sake of pubs. Tons of heroes won't ever be more than niche picks in progames because of pubs and it's fine this way, void should be amongst them.
There are plenty of ways to nerf him while leaving him viable in both pubs and pro games.
Reducing the 1800 effective initiation range on his chrono wouldn't hurt. That is so far when a blink dagger maxes out at 1200.
On September 20 2014 02:07 pedrlz wrote: Also, why nobody is talking about Liquid Fire? most bullshit spell ever lol
Because jakiro only has that 1 ability and he's got the worst other stuff (cast point, turnrate, etc) so he deserves something OP out of pity
He is kinda broke right now, though. Not mega broke, but kinda broke. Games feel so easy with core Jak.
First, let me laugh in glee as my old theorycrafting has finally become the object of much whine.
Second, are you saying that core Jakiro is easy to use in pubs or that core Jakiro lacks sufficient counter-strategies at all levels of play?
Pros can do whatever the fuck they want. Core Jak is good there, but not overpowering. In pubs, if you have even the slightest semblance of team organization, it's stupidly easy to pick core Jak and win with him. Nobody's ever done it to me that I can recall, which is strange.
Eh, is that really bad though? No one's crying for Necrophos and Abaddon nerfs even though they dominate pub winrates. Can you imagine how bad Omniknight would get if he was adjusted for pro play? He's already second despite all the complaining about his flaws.
Void is very frustrating to play against, that's all. Spirit breaker was less obnoxious when he was nerfed just for the sake of pubs. Tons of heroes won't ever be more than niche picks in progames because of pubs and it's fine this way, void should be amongst them.
There are plenty of ways to nerf him while leaving him viable in both pubs and pro games.
Why exactly do we want to leave him viable? The other dominant heroes weren't given that luxury in the past.
On September 20 2014 02:11 FHDH wrote: Please don't increase Blink cost. It's so hard to farm in some games as a support already and doing things like increasing the cost and/or cooldown isn't going to stop it from being the item of choice, just make support lives more painful.
Supports used to get by with the famous 25 minutes brown boots wand. This patch is not the norm. It is the outlier.
Fun game bro bring it back
I played it without bitching. Why can't you?
I wonder if we can stop this thread from being an oldschooler dickswinging contest? Two can play that game but it's not a fun game or interesting or on topic.
all your balance requests boil down to "I suck ass at farming as support please give me free items anyway" it gets boring.
Get real dude. If you're going to try and sit on my nuts at least say something that is close to accurate.
Blink is stupid cheap. Farming it shouldn't be an issue.
Most games it isn't, but the games that it is, as a support I find the suggestion of an additional 1-200g just needlessly painful. I understand the desire to bring SB/FS/Blink more on par but I don't like this approach.
It's like the suggestions to nerf Rhasta. Maybe other supports should just be better, not Rhasta made worse.
Depends entirely on which support. Supports that are farming blink daggers as their core won't give a shit about the extra 30 seconds on their timing, and supports that aren't farming for a blink dagger explicitly can afford to get it another minute or two later without being too sad about it.
I think you're missing my caveat somehow. In games where farming blink is normal it's fine (I said this). In games where it's problematic that 200g can be really painful (I said this). I think there are better ways to balance the items if the items need balancing.
On September 20 2014 02:43 Plansix wrote: Reducing the 1800 effective initiation range on his chrono wouldn't hurt. That is so far when a blink dagger maxes out at 1200.
Changing a dynamic that a hero has possessed for years (with no complaints) is questionable. Void's become too strong because of power creep, but that particular part has never been a problem. Bigger Chrono, faster turn rate, different offlane, improved core items, TW mana reduction: those are all better suspects as to why he's picked so often.
On September 20 2014 02:44 Acritter wrote: Why exactly do we want to leave him viable? The other dominant heroes weren't given that luxury in the past.
Most heroes nerfed in the past were never nerfed into being unplayable. When Visage fell out of popularity it was due to his nerfs + a whole host of other changes that made him replaceable in lineups. He wasn't utter trash. Even Batrider was never unplayable. People merely overreacted to his nerfs.
On September 20 2014 02:15 Acritter wrote: [quote] Supports used to get by with the famous 25 minutes brown boots wand. This patch is not the norm. It is the outlier.
Fun game bro bring it back
I played it without bitching. Why can't you?
I wonder if we can stop this thread from being an oldschooler dickswinging contest? Two can play that game but it's not a fun game or interesting or on topic.
all your balance requests boil down to "I suck ass at farming as support please give me free items anyway" it gets boring.
Get real dude. If you're going to try and sit on my nuts at least say something that is close to accurate.
Blink is stupid cheap. Farming it shouldn't be an issue.
Most games it isn't, but the games that it is, as a support I find the suggestion of an additional 1-200g just needlessly painful. I understand the desire to bring SB/FS/Blink more on par but I don't like this approach.
It's like the suggestions to nerf Rhasta. Maybe other supports should just be better, not Rhasta made worse.
Depends entirely on which support. Supports that are farming blink daggers as their core won't give a shit about the extra 30 seconds on their timing, and supports that aren't farming for a blink dagger explicitly can afford to get it another minute or two later without being too sad about it.
I think you're missing my caveat somehow. In games where farming blink is normal it's fine (I said this). In games where it's problematic that 200g can be really painful (I said this). I think there are better ways to balance the items if the items need balancing.
If you're a hero not farming for a blink dagger then I don't get how it's painful. You simply... don't get a blink dagger. It's not like there aren't other options, and when the change amounts to reducing mobility or blink timings on core heroes, or slowing the rest of the game's progression, then you leave a bigger window of impact for other items. It gives you more space to push with your mek before their tide gets his blink, or leaves you a window where you'll have a force staff where they'll have a pile of 1800 gold.
On heroes like SK and WK where you need a blink to initiate, then I see how a slower blink timing would be irritating (but not painful!). On Skywrath/Cm/lina/jakiro/treant/lion/nyx/blahblahblah you don't NEED a blink dagger, it's just a superconvenient luxury item. And like in real life, if you can't afford a luxury item, you simply do not get it.
i think the game is generally the most fun it has ever been, regardless of your position. supports are extremely active, roam, and often get a good chunk of farm priority. The offlane changes have another core online faster, which gets us in to the midgame quicker. The mid role is entirely different from how it was played a year ago, with it often having highest farm priority despite being the most contested lane.
the game is in a good spot, the picks are just dry. things i'd like to see:
void: jump mana cost 120 all levels, up from 90. chronosphere no longer reveals invis units. chronosphere no longer disables evasion.
doom: scorched earth is the problem here, it gives him too much versatility and its the reason he can offlane. Maybe make the movement speed scale per level, starting at 0.
tinker: balance wise he is okay, but his playstyle is anti-fun to play against and his recovery in pubs is incredible. make the re-arm blink change and that would probably be enough. maybe make march do half what it does now to ancients.
skywrath: -10 movespeed
cm: +10 movespeed
spiritbreaker: lol
dp: probably fine just a product of push-crazy meta
shadow shaman: his q scales weird, nerf it lv 1, everything else about him is OK
razor: also probably fine. any nerf to his laning means he will never be picked... maybe increase his ult cool down with aghs by 15 seconds.
I think a CD nerf is probably OK for blink. Unless you are trying to balance tinker via blink nerfs but I don't think that's the correct approach considering how many heroes are affected by blink balance changes.
Blink is hard to balance, some heroes can't be played in the later stages of the game without it but at the same time it's too cost effective for some non natural users.
On September 20 2014 02:55 ahw wrote: i think the game is generally the most fun it has ever been, regardless of your position. supports are extremely active, roam, and often get a good chunk of farm priority. The offlane changes have another core online faster, which gets us in to the midgame quicker. The mid role is entirely different from how it was played a year ago, with it often having highest farm priority despite being the most contested lane.
the game is in a good spot, the picks are just dry. things i'd like to see:
void: jump mana cost 120 all levels, up from 90. chronosphere no longer reveals invis units. chronosphere no longer disables evasion.
doom: scorched earth is the problem here, it gives him too much versatility and its the reason he can offlane. Maybe make the movement speed scale per level, starting at 0.
tinker: balance wise he is okay, but his playstyle is anti-fun to play against and his recovery in pubs is incredible. make the re-arm blink change and that would probably be enough. maybe make march do half what it does now to ancients.
skywrath: -10 movespeed
cm: +10 movespeed
spiritbreaker: lol
Spiritbreaker is invisible on the minimap when charging. EZ.
On September 20 2014 02:43 Plansix wrote: Reducing the 1800 effective initiation range on his chrono wouldn't hurt. That is so far when a blink dagger maxes out at 1200.
Changing a dynamic that a hero has possessed for years (with no complaints) is questionable. Void's become too strong because of power creep, but that particular part has never been a problem. Bigger Chrono, faster turn rate, different offlane, improved core items, TW mana reduction: those are all better suspects as to why he's picked so often.
On September 20 2014 02:44 Acritter wrote: Why exactly do we want to leave him viable? The other dominant heroes weren't given that luxury in the past.
Most heroes nerfed in the past were never nerfed into being unplayable. When Visage fell out of popularity it was due to his nerfs + a whole host of other changes that made him replaceable in lineups. He wasn't utter trash. Even Batrider was never unplayable. People merely overreacted to his nerfs.
I don't think you should ever nerf a hero into unplayability. I have raged at Void many times and I find him so tiresome to watch in pro matches over and over but good balancing doesn't cycle through over/underpowered heroes so only a small roster are reasonably viable, it leaves who is viable up to what roles are needed and if that becomes too narrow you look at the game's design. Some people in this thread seem to have a lot of hate in their hearts and are proponents of suffering because they experienced it themselves. Boo to that: Dota is a game.
On September 20 2014 02:43 Plansix wrote: Reducing the 1800 effective initiation range on his chrono wouldn't hurt. That is so far when a blink dagger maxes out at 1200.
Changing a dynamic that a hero has possessed for years (with no complaints) is questionable. Void's become too strong because of power creep, but that particular part has never been a problem. Bigger Chrono, faster turn rate, different offlane, improved core items, TW mana reduction: those are all better suspects as to why he's picked so often.
A range reduction on chrono or time walk is not a drastic change as long as it isn't crazy. Bringing time walk down by 200 units or chrono closer to the range of black hole wouldn't be terrible. Right now chrono has a better effective range than black hole(with blink), lasts longer has an amazingly short cool down.
Really any nerf would be good for void, but I like ones that give the other side a better ability to respond, rather than just directly make the hero crappier(ie, cool down increase).
On September 20 2014 03:01 Sn0_Man wrote: That doesn't make SB useable lol
It makes him pub viable again, and that's good enough for me. All that is required of SB ever is charge at people and be a bashlord.
E - yes like smoke, except it doesn't have a 60 second cooldown and is free. Actually if he got exactly smoke mechanics at the beginning of every charge, I'd be happy.
On September 20 2014 02:55 ahw wrote: i think the game is generally the most fun it has ever been, regardless of your position. supports are extremely active, roam, and often get a good chunk of farm priority. The offlane changes have another core online faster, which gets us in to the midgame quicker. The mid role is entirely different from how it was played a year ago, with it often having highest farm priority despite being the most contested lane.
the game is in a good spot, the picks are just dry. things i'd like to see:
void: jump mana cost 120 all levels, up from 90. chronosphere no longer reveals invis units. chronosphere no longer disables evasion.
doom: scorched earth is the problem here, it gives him too much versatility and its the reason he can offlane. Maybe make the movement speed scale per level, starting at 0.
tinker: balance wise he is okay, but his playstyle is anti-fun to play against and his recovery in pubs is incredible. make the re-arm blink change and that would probably be enough. maybe make march do half what it does now to ancients.
skywrath: -10 movespeed
cm: +10 movespeed
spiritbreaker: lol
Spiritbreaker is invisible on the minimap when charging. EZ.
On September 20 2014 03:01 Sn0_Man wrote: That doesn't make SB useable lol
It makes him pub viable again, and that's good enough for me. All that is required of SB ever is charge at people and be a bashlord.
Um...I can still stun his ass to prevent his ult, which is why he is bad right now. His one job is to take out one hero and he doesn't do it. Space cow need more love than that, maybe a buff to his passive.
On September 20 2014 03:01 Sn0_Man wrote: That doesn't make SB useable lol
It makes him pub viable again, and that's good enough for me. All that is required of SB ever is charge at people and be a bashlord.
Um...I can still stun his ass to prevent his ult, which is why he is bad right now. His one job is to take out one hero and he doesn't do it. Space cow need more love than that, maybe a buff to his passive.
I'd agree that it wouldn't be enough to make him "good", but it would be enough where I'd be allowed to charge at people out of position, and not just have them start walking away as soon as I jog through any sort of enemy vision. I'm not interested in making him "good", I'm interested in re-living the fun that is playing a hero entirely designed to smash faces.
SB is already pretty good in pubs if you are good at him. You just have to smoke for charge, and charge from good positions, and itemize properly. He's not nearly as bad as everyone thinks. Kind of like how everyone thinks earth spirit is bad for some reason?
His ult change kind of destroyed his viability tho
SB is totally fine, except that he is one of the worst heroes in Dota. I will go so far as to say the worse hero in dota right now. I can't think of anyone less useful.
1. increase the damage from Huskar's burning spears
2. increase the total # of illusions PL can have at any one time. Make his illusions deal less damage but last longer.
3. revert crystal maiden's int so she's not HUR DUR blonde
4. make nighstalker have increased health and mana regen during nightime but shorten nightime
5. make keeper of light's nuke scale 2.0x with his int at max level.
6. increase blyat cyka's strg gain or something IDK he's too squishy
7. make it so slardar doesn't take extra dmg when he uses sprint but increases spring cd. make his ult have 0 cast time and reduce mana cost (or remove mana cost)
8. increase spirit baker's charge speed when he uses nether charge
On September 20 2014 02:53 CosmicSpiral wrote: Most heroes nerfed in the past were never nerfed into being unplayable. When Visage fell out of popularity it was due to his nerfs + a whole host of other changes that made him replaceable in lineups. He wasn't utter trash. Even Batrider was never unplayable. People merely overreacted to his nerfs.
Broodmother is currently literally unplayable, at least in a serious -CM environment.
On September 20 2014 02:53 CosmicSpiral wrote: Most heroes nerfed in the past were never nerfed into being unplayable. When Visage fell out of popularity it was due to his nerfs + a whole host of other changes that made him replaceable in lineups. He wasn't utter trash. Even Batrider was never unplayable. People merely overreacted to his nerfs.
Broodmother is currently unplayable, at least in a serious -CM environment.
Really? She's one of the biggest space creators and lane dominators out there, and there are tons of heroes in the current meta that need space. Surely there would be a way to make brood work, and she's neither the strongest she's ever been nor the weakest, right now.
On September 20 2014 03:21 Sn0_Man wrote: Dunno, PL's definitely still a hero.
But he's like an awful version of terrorblade or splitpush naga. Terrorblade at least has early presence without having to graft a kotl to his side.
I feel like PL just needs a ton more farm to get online, but then again if he does he's much stronger than Naga or TB. It's just the meta right now that is very much not favoring 4 protect 1 which PL excels at. If that is changed even one bit in the next patch, I'm sure we'll see a PL resurgence. Not saying that's good tho
Sentry detect Smoke units , sick and tired from level 1 smoke ganks or the ultra late pick off that wins you the game. its just not reasonable that the only way to reveal it , is actually run into them ....
On September 20 2014 03:02 Plansix wrote: A range reduction on chrono or time walk is not a drastic change as long as it isn't crazy. Bringing time walk down by 200 units or chrono closer to the range of black hole wouldn't be terrible. Right now chrono has a better effective range than black hole(with blink), lasts longer has an amazingly short cool down.
Really any nerf would be good for void, but I like ones that give the other side a better ability to respond, rather than just directly make the hero crappier(ie, cool down increase).
I don't like it because it hurts him where he's strong. Void's uniqueness as a carry comes from his ability to self-initiate a fight without items; in fact, it's the only interesting thing about the hero. In exchange he gets garbage stat gain, a steroid that only truly kicks in once every minute and a half (with items), no decent CC without his ultimate, and no inherent farming tools. I'd rather preserve his defining trait and nerf the other things that have made it too easy to pick him.
Honestly I want Valve to buff the heroes that mess with him. Those old counters hardly show up anymore except for Bane and Shadow Demon, and the latter is an European fad.
On September 20 2014 02:53 CosmicSpiral wrote: Most heroes nerfed in the past were never nerfed into being unplayable. When Visage fell out of popularity it was due to his nerfs + a whole host of other changes that made him replaceable in lineups. He wasn't utter trash. Even Batrider was never unplayable. People merely overreacted to his nerfs.
Broodmother is currently literally unplayable, at least in a serious -CM environment.
Sometimes things fall through the cracks. Brood is hard to fine-tune due to her design alone and as much as I would love to see her in a Starladder final, I can understand why Valve is looking for all the alternative perks instead of addressing the stuff everyone complains about.
On September 20 2014 03:02 Plansix wrote: A range reduction on chrono or time walk is not a drastic change as long as it isn't crazy. Bringing time walk down by 200 units or chrono closer to the range of black hole wouldn't be terrible. Right now chrono has a better effective range than black hole(with blink), lasts longer has an amazingly short cool down.
Really any nerf would be good for void, but I like ones that give the other side a better ability to respond, rather than just directly make the hero crappier(ie, cool down increase).
I don't like it because it hurts him where he's strong. Void's uniqueness as a carry comes from his ability to self-initiate a fight without items; in fact, it's the only interesting thing about the hero. In exchange he gets garbage stat gain, a steroid that only truly kicks in once every minute and a half (with items), no decent CC without his ultimate, and no inherent farming tools. I'd rather preserve his defining trait and nerf the other things that have made it too easy to pick him.
Honestly I want Valve to buff the heroes that mess with him. Those old counters hardly show up anymore except for Bane and Shadow Demon, and the latter is an European fad.
I agree with you on the buff department. I am just saying if he is nerfed, I want it to be in a way that provides the other teams with options to deal with him, rather than just making him worse. If anything, I think being able for forcestaff people in chrono would be super helpful and if you could turn on BKB while under chrono.
But I would rather every else be buffed to usefulness than heroes be nerfed into the ground.
On September 20 2014 03:57 nooboon wrote: Kill/ death streak counter when spectating a game. While we're at it, how about showing potential gold bounty if hero would die.
While we're discussing spectator mode:
Keybind-toggleable per-team (color-coded?) vision-radius indicators: when watching two groups collide you can intuitively determine who sees who but for casters I think this would be a good tool.***
Move the play bar so it doesn't overlap the inspect button and other interface items.
Fix the bugs with inspect mode, including disappearing hair/outfits and heroes that are at the wrong scale in the window. Just improve inspect mode in general.
When a player is selected show items that are on a courier.
Improve the ground-level camera including the ugly implementation of fog-of-war.
Show the same disables under top-interface health bars you would see over a hero's head.
I had some other improvements in mind but I forgot many of them.
*** Yes I know you can go all vision/dire vision/radiant vision but I'm talking about a mode that would show by shades or borders where each team's vision is simultaneously.
On September 20 2014 03:02 Plansix wrote: A range reduction on chrono or time walk is not a drastic change as long as it isn't crazy. Bringing time walk down by 200 units or chrono closer to the range of black hole wouldn't be terrible. Right now chrono has a better effective range than black hole(with blink), lasts longer has an amazingly short cool down.
Really any nerf would be good for void, but I like ones that give the other side a better ability to respond, rather than just directly make the hero crappier(ie, cool down increase).
I don't like it because it hurts him where he's strong. Void's uniqueness as a carry comes from his ability to self-initiate a fight without items; in fact, it's the only interesting thing about the hero. In exchange he gets garbage stat gain, a steroid that only truly kicks in once every minute and a half (with items), no decent CC without his ultimate, and no inherent farming tools. I'd rather preserve his defining trait and nerf the other things that have made it too easy to pick him.
Honestly I want Valve to buff the heroes that mess with him. Those old counters hardly show up anymore except for Bane and Shadow Demon, and the latter is an European fad.
I agree with you on the buff department. I am just saying if he is nerfed, I want it to be in a way that provides the other teams with options to deal with him, rather than just making him worse. If anything, I think being able for forcestaff people in chrono would be super helpful and if you could turn on BKB while under chrono.
But I would rather every else be buffed to usefulness than heroes be nerfed into the ground.
From what I remember in the change-logs over the past few patches, it's obvious Icefrog wants to replicate the Dota 1 Pause state within Chronosphere. I don't see him doing anything to contradict that.
broodmother is very strong right now u guys are crazy.
unless the team has the right counterpick she goes beast mode and can 1v2 or 1v3 most lanes, starves the supports out with wards, can safely clear the enemy jungle. obviously if u first pick her in AP or whatever someone will counterpick hard, but she's still very strong in the hands of a good player
if added to CM she would still be legit as a 5th pick offlaner
Does nobody else feel that Maelstrom/Mjollnir are too good as all-purpose damage items? Any hero who wants DPS without some urgent need for hybrid defensive stats (like you'd get from Bfly, Manta, Armlet, AC etc.) or utility seems to pick it up. It's decent for single-target DPS, good for multi-target DPS, good for teamfights, good for farming, transitions well, offers synergy with a tanky hero (lightning shield). Other greedy damage options like Deso and Crit just don't seem to have the same coverage. Or is it just me that thinks it's too good?
I just want my boy antimage buffed a bit so he's a decent carry. Not too much though, I don't want idiots who can't farm trying to play him. Also I'm hoping Icefrog reverts his stupid cm nerf or buffs her in some other way.
On September 20 2014 04:53 CorsairHero wrote: aside from the obv nerfs, i really hope more heros get added to CM
Agreed. I'd like to see at least most if not all of the current hero pool available by the time TI5 rolls around. The greatest victory for Valve would be having all of the current heroes not only in the pool but have the state of the game and hero balance in a place that all heroes are picked over the course of the competition.
On September 20 2014 04:27 SoylentGamer wrote: Finally. Echo stomp. Make it long animation, not channeled. That or just generally buff it more, it's his weakest ability currently.
While I'd like that to happen I have to say his worst ability is Earth Splitter
? virtually every hero was picked. The issue is that even if every hero is equally good, players are guaranteed to be more comfortable on one hero than another if they are perfectly equally balanced, so players will still play one hero more than another. Less talented teams will always just copy-cat the more talented teams.
On September 20 2014 04:27 SoylentGamer wrote: Finally. Echo stomp. Make it long animation, not channeled. That or just generally buff it more, it's his weakest ability currently.
While I'd like that to happen I have to say his worst ability is Earth Splitter
Nothing that looks that awesome should be as lack luster as it is.
On September 20 2014 04:27 SoylentGamer wrote: Finally. Echo stomp. Make it long animation, not channeled. That or just generally buff it more, it's his weakest ability currently.
While I'd like that to happen I have to say his worst ability is Earth Splitter
Nothing that looks that awesome should be as lack luster as it is.
My sentiments exactly. It's so amazing aesthetically yet deals lame damage unless you have Order on them, and the slow is quite unremarkable. It's also probably one of the worst scaling spells in the game imo
On September 20 2014 05:10 Sn0_Man wrote: ? virtually every hero was picked. The issue is that even if every hero is equally good, players are guaranteed to be more comfortable on one hero than another if they are perfectly equally balanced, so players will still play one hero more than another. Less talented teams will always just copy-cat the more talented teams.
Yes, nearly every hero was picked but hero selection did whittle down, some heroes weren't picked, and a few were missing from CM. Some of this was inevitable - one style was clearly winning the tournament - but the good parts won't repeat if they don't make a conscious effort to that end.
The high bar is *every* current hero available and all of them being picked. Repeating TI4's level of success with hero breadth would still be a success.
On September 20 2014 04:27 SoylentGamer wrote: Finally. Echo stomp. Make it long animation, not channeled. That or just generally buff it more, it's his weakest ability currently.
While I'd like that to happen I have to say his worst ability is Earth Splitter
Echo stomp did actually receive a lot of buffs recently though. I would have to agree, Earth Splitter could use better scaling, the only upgrades it gets as it levels is +10% slow per level. An Aghanim's upgrade would be awesome on him though, I would really like to see that.
Razor movement speed -5 ms Unstable current MS bonus 5/10/15/20% (so slightly better ms lategame but worse early on especially since ppl go 4-3-1-1 build) Static Link Mana cost to 50 mana fixed at all levels (so he can't rape almost every single lane)
Viper -3 agility. Increased agility gain by 0.3 (not as annoying in lane, slightly better late game)
Tinker March damage from universal to magical -> can't farm ancients to recover if he lose lane, can't stop every push even after bkbs, can still farm jungle.
Lycan wolves HP from 200/240/280/320 to 240. Slightly better laning but much harder solo rosh. The rosh pit placement change is also a big nerf. Radiant Lycan isn't a big deal anyway.
Faceless void -2 base agility. No longer has double damage bashes in chrono. Slightly less versatile laning, but more importantly removed the solo kill potential of the hero at 6, make him need at least a partner with him.
Skywraht mage Arcane bolt mana cost from 70->85. Huge nerf to his laning and mid-lategame if he isn't a core.
Rastha-> Shackle now deal 10/30/50/70 damage per second. (basically remove 80 damage from level 1 shackle, it's a huge deal for early laning kill capabilities).
Doom -> Doom magic resist lowered from 25% to 10%.
T1 towers global bounty lowered from 200 to 150. First tower is like 70% win ratio iirc and it's relatively easy to take those. Nerf that gold.
Earth spirit removed from the game fucking shitter hero. Phoenix AS slow don't pierce bkb anymore plz.
BUFFS (some i'd like to see):
Elder Titan- > aura now is split between the Spirit and Main. Main has the lower armor aura, while spirit reduce magic resist (obv u get both if ur spirit isn't out). His ulti is now casted by both his spirit and himself to the point target and the two splits deal respectively 16/18/20% of max HP in damage as physical/magical damage. Increase str growth from 2.3 to 2.8. (not a morph killer as much as before, but more utility ultimate, more damage and more tankiness to apply -armor aura).
Drow aura -> now has half effect on non-hero units. Ultimate deactivation range from 400 to 400/300/200. (less "pick only with visage", slightly better scaling ult)
Barathrum -> Empowering haste now increase attack speed by the same amount too (make bara less of a single target hero, give him some push/teamfight capability). Aura can be toggled off to hero only.
Balanar -> now has 400 unobstructed vision during the night. Aghs maybe a little buff, mb not.
Treant -> Nature Guise when casted on treant give also 250 flying vision.
On September 20 2014 04:27 SoylentGamer wrote: Finally. Echo stomp. Make it long animation, not channeled. That or just generally buff it more, it's his weakest ability currently.
While I'd like that to happen I have to say his worst ability is Earth Splitter
Nothing that looks that awesome should be as lack luster as it is.
My sentiments exactly. It's so amazing aesthetically yet deals lame damage unless you have Order on them, and the slow is quite unremarkable. It's also probably one of the worst scaling spells in the game imo
How is 35% of max health "lame damage"? Though you're right, the spell needs to scale for a shorter delay or cooldown or something. A longer duration, heavier slow is awful, awful scaling.
-e- I agree that the dual casting of split earth sounds fantastic, but you'd probably have to tone down its range to compensate. two fissures that occupy 300 x 2400 area is a TON of space.
Elder Titan- > aura now is split between the Spirit and Main. Main has the lower armor aura, while spirit reduce magic resist (obv u get both if ur spirit isn't out). His ulti is now casted by both his spirit and himself to the point target and the two splits deal respectively 16/18/20% of max HP in damage as physical/magical damage. Increase str growth from 2.3 to 2.8. (not a morph killer as much as before, but more utility ultimate, more damage and more tankiness to apply -armor aura).
On September 20 2014 04:27 SoylentGamer wrote: Finally. Echo stomp. Make it long animation, not channeled. That or just generally buff it more, it's his weakest ability currently.
While I'd like that to happen I have to say his worst ability is Earth Splitter
Nothing that looks that awesome should be as lack luster as it is.
My sentiments exactly. It's so amazing aesthetically yet deals lame damage unless you have Order on them, and the slow is quite unremarkable. It's also probably one of the worst scaling spells in the game imo
How is 35% of max health "lame damage"? Though you're right, the spell needs to scale for a shorter delay or cooldown or something. A longer duration, heavier slow is awful, awful scaling.
Its cooldown used to scale, but that was nerfed a while back.
Elder Titan- > aura now is split between the Spirit and Main. Main has the lower armor aura, while spirit reduce magic resist (obv u get both if ur spirit isn't out). His ulti is now casted by both his spirit and himself to the point target and the two splits deal respectively 16/18/20% of max HP in damage as physical/magical damage. Increase str growth from 2.3 to 2.8. (not a morph killer as much as before, but more utility ultimate, more damage and more tankiness to apply -armor aura).
This is crazy, I love it.
Imagine those 3k distance splitters ! Well the damage wouldn't be much since you'd get only about of what is now but it would looks so amazing :D
On September 20 2014 04:27 SoylentGamer wrote: Finally. Echo stomp. Make it long animation, not channeled. That or just generally buff it more, it's his weakest ability currently.
While I'd like that to happen I have to say his worst ability is Earth Splitter
Nothing that looks that awesome should be as lack luster as it is.
My sentiments exactly. It's so amazing aesthetically yet deals lame damage unless you have Order on them, and the slow is quite unremarkable. It's also probably one of the worst scaling spells in the game imo
How is 35% of max health "lame damage"? Though you're right, the spell needs to scale for a shorter delay or cooldown or something. A longer duration, heavier slow is awful, awful scaling.
-e- I agree that the dual casting of split earth sounds fantastic, but you'd probably have to tone down its range to compensate. two fissures that occupy 300 x 2400 area is a TON of space.
It's composite damage, so you need your spirit on your enemy for it to deal any amount of damage (unless your team has lots of -armor and -magic resist)
Tinker March damage from universal to magical -> can't farm ancients to recover if he lose lane, can't stop every push even after bkbs, can still farm jungle.
This probably kills Tinker as a pro pick.
Rastha-> Shackle now deal 10/30/50/70 damage per second. (basically remove 80 damage from level 1 shackle, it's a huge deal for early laning kill capabilities).
Level one shackle is pretty strong; I don't want to see Rhasta nerfed but this change would actually make those mid-game solo blink-ult ganks easier.
T1 towers global bounty lowered from 200 to 150. First tower is like 70% win ratio iirc and it's relatively easy to take those. Nerf that gold.
I don't find that correlation particularly compelling as an argument; in many convincing wins the stronger team is taking the first tower. That's not to say this isn't a reasonable nerf, just taking issue with the given evidence.
T1 towers global bounty lowered from 200 to 150. First tower is like 70% win ratio iirc and it's relatively easy to take those. Nerf that gold.
I don't find that correlation particularly compelling as an argument; in many convincing wins the stronger team is taking the first tower. That's not to say this isn't a reasonable nerf, just taking issue with the given evidence.
No correlation isn't as compelling, but it seems to me that's too easy to snowball on early T1 gold, or to say it better, teams especially on radiant only play strats that involve taking T1s fast. Maybe not as much as a nerf, but still i'd like to see something to encourage other strats too. Not sure what else u can do, aside from just nerfing push heroes.
On September 20 2014 04:27 SoylentGamer wrote: Finally. Echo stomp. Make it long animation, not channeled. That or just generally buff it more, it's his weakest ability currently.
While I'd like that to happen I have to say his worst ability is Earth Splitter
Nothing that looks that awesome should be as lack luster as it is.
My sentiments exactly. It's so amazing aesthetically yet deals lame damage unless you have Order on them, and the slow is quite unremarkable. It's also probably one of the worst scaling spells in the game imo
How is 35% of max health "lame damage"? Though you're right, the spell needs to scale for a shorter delay or cooldown or something. A longer duration, heavier slow is awful, awful scaling.
-e- I agree that the dual casting of split earth sounds fantastic, but you'd probably have to tone down its range to compensate. two fissures that occupy 300 x 2400 area is a TON of space.
It's composite damage, so you need your spirit on your enemy for it to deal any amount of damage (unless your team has lots of -armor and -magic resist)
The ET suggestion up there is amazing
I thought it was split 17.5% physical and magic, so even with normal hero 25% magic resist, the magic damage half is gonna do 13% hp in actual damage, plus whatever the physical half adds. Even without Order that's around 20% hp in actual damage vs a target with 25% mr and 15 armour. That doesn't seem that bad.
On September 20 2014 04:27 SoylentGamer wrote: Finally. Echo stomp. Make it long animation, not channeled. That or just generally buff it more, it's his weakest ability currently.
While I'd like that to happen I have to say his worst ability is Earth Splitter
Nothing that looks that awesome should be as lack luster as it is.
My sentiments exactly. It's so amazing aesthetically yet deals lame damage unless you have Order on them, and the slow is quite unremarkable. It's also probably one of the worst scaling spells in the game imo
How is 35% of max health "lame damage"? Though you're right, the spell needs to scale for a shorter delay or cooldown or something. A longer duration, heavier slow is awful, awful scaling.
-e- I agree that the dual casting of split earth sounds fantastic, but you'd probably have to tone down its range to compensate. two fissures that occupy 300 x 2400 area is a TON of space.
It's composite damage, so you need your spirit on your enemy for it to deal any amount of damage (unless your team has lots of -armor and -magic resist)
The ET suggestion up there is amazing
50% of the damage is reduced by armor 50% of the damage is reduced by magic resist. The effect is very different from composite, where the damage is reduced by armor then magic resist.
Say the target has 1000 health, 25% resist and 5 armor. (175*(1-(0.06*5)/(1+0.06*5))+175*(1-0.25))=265.87 350*(1-(0.06*5)/(1+0.06*5))*(1-0.25)=201.92
On September 20 2014 04:27 SoylentGamer wrote: Finally. Echo stomp. Make it long animation, not channeled. That or just generally buff it more, it's his weakest ability currently.
While I'd like that to happen I have to say his worst ability is Earth Splitter
Nothing that looks that awesome should be as lack luster as it is.
My sentiments exactly. It's so amazing aesthetically yet deals lame damage unless you have Order on them, and the slow is quite unremarkable. It's also probably one of the worst scaling spells in the game imo
How is 35% of max health "lame damage"? Though you're right, the spell needs to scale for a shorter delay or cooldown or something. A longer duration, heavier slow is awful, awful scaling.
-e- I agree that the dual casting of split earth sounds fantastic, but you'd probably have to tone down its range to compensate. two fissures that occupy 300 x 2400 area is a TON of space.
It's composite damage, so you need your spirit on your enemy for it to deal any amount of damage (unless your team has lots of -armor and -magic resist)
The ET suggestion up there is amazing
50% of the damage is reduced by armor 50% of the damage is reduced by magic resist. The effect is very different from composite, where the damage is reduced by armor then magic resist.
Say the target has 1000 health, 25% resist and 5 armor. (175*(1-(0.06*5)/(1+0.06*5))+175*(1-0.25))=265.87 350*(1-(0.06*5)/(1+0.06*5))*(1-0.25)=201.92
Wow I play like 100 games of Titan and I have no idea. Thanks
But yeah I still maintain that the damage is pretty underwhelming after reductions considering how tough it is to land and how mediocre the other effects are
I agree that it needs improvements, but I don't think "Do more damage" is one of them. Maybe changing the damage to flat +percent so you avoid doing 150 damage to supports with your ultimate would be a decent change, and give it some scaling.
Actually maybe you're right, and just adding 150/250/350 damage to the ult would be a solid change.
On September 20 2014 04:27 SoylentGamer wrote: Finally. Echo stomp. Make it long animation, not channeled. That or just generally buff it more, it's his weakest ability currently.
While I'd like that to happen I have to say his worst ability is Earth Splitter
Nothing that looks that awesome should be as lack luster as it is.
My sentiments exactly. It's so amazing aesthetically yet deals lame damage unless you have Order on them, and the slow is quite unremarkable. It's also probably one of the worst scaling spells in the game imo
How is 35% of max health "lame damage"? Though you're right, the spell needs to scale for a shorter delay or cooldown or something. A longer duration, heavier slow is awful, awful scaling.
-e- I agree that the dual casting of split earth sounds fantastic, but you'd probably have to tone down its range to compensate. two fissures that occupy 300 x 2400 area is a TON of space.
It's composite damage, so you need your spirit on your enemy for it to deal any amount of damage (unless your team has lots of -armor and -magic resist)
The ET suggestion up there is amazing
50% of the damage is reduced by armor 50% of the damage is reduced by magic resist. The effect is very different from composite, where the damage is reduced by armor then magic resist.
Say the target has 1000 health, 25% resist and 5 armor. (175*(1-(0.06*5)/(1+0.06*5))+175*(1-0.25))=265.87 350*(1-(0.06*5)/(1+0.06*5))*(1-0.25)=201.92
Wow I play like 100 games of Titan and I have no idea. Thanks
But yeah I still maintain that the damage is pretty underwhelming after reductions considering how tough it is to land and how mediocre the other effects are
It makes it better vs resists in general but far weaker vs BKBs etc. Its similar to his stomp.
On September 20 2014 04:27 SoylentGamer wrote: Finally. Echo stomp. Make it long animation, not channeled. That or just generally buff it more, it's his weakest ability currently.
While I'd like that to happen I have to say his worst ability is Earth Splitter
Nothing that looks that awesome should be as lack luster as it is.
My sentiments exactly. It's so amazing aesthetically yet deals lame damage unless you have Order on them, and the slow is quite unremarkable. It's also probably one of the worst scaling spells in the game imo
How is 35% of max health "lame damage"? Though you're right, the spell needs to scale for a shorter delay or cooldown or something. A longer duration, heavier slow is awful, awful scaling.
-e- I agree that the dual casting of split earth sounds fantastic, but you'd probably have to tone down its range to compensate. two fissures that occupy 300 x 2400 area is a TON of space.
It's composite damage, so you need your spirit on your enemy for it to deal any amount of damage (unless your team has lots of -armor and -magic resist)
The ET suggestion up there is amazing
50% of the damage is reduced by armor 50% of the damage is reduced by magic resist. The effect is very different from composite, where the damage is reduced by armor then magic resist.
Say the target has 1000 health, 25% resist and 5 armor. (175*(1-(0.06*5)/(1+0.06*5))+175*(1-0.25))=265.87 350*(1-(0.06*5)/(1+0.06*5))*(1-0.25)=201.92
Wow I play like 100 games of Titan and I have no idea. Thanks
But yeah I still maintain that the damage is pretty underwhelming after reductions considering how tough it is to land and how mediocre the other effects are
even if the target had no items, 350 damage is still underwhelming, about as much damage as your other nukes combined. I would have to agree, its aoe is huge but the scaling could definitely be better. I probably calculate numbers about dota more than I play dota though.
Changing Elder Titan's ultimate to composite damage actually wouldn't be a massive nerf as one might think, it would mean that all damage goes through BKB, and due to his aura, it wouldn't actually hurt its damage too much, although it would mean you couldn't do more damage early game with a lower level aura. Maybe changing to composite, then increasing the overall damage. Early game it would do just as much damage due to the damage buff and late game it would deal lots of damage due to your aura, plus complete BKB counter.
tinker removed from game doom removed from game void removed from game phoenix removed from game razor removed from game tidehunter kraken shell changed 10/15/25/30 midas cost increased 500g thd q removed, now three spell hero tower boutny reduced 200g blink cd 30s lycan howl changed to 10/20/30/40 5/5/10/15 meepo aghs removed shadow shaman ward damaged changed to 30/40/50 dp ghost dmg changed to 40
buffs
earthshaker fissure range 1800 axe spin change 25% sven ult dmg 200/300/400% sandking stun range 400/500/600/700 clockwork hook range: 2500/3000/4000 magnus skewer 1000/1250/1500/2000 RP dmg no longer blocked tusk snowball 150/200/250/300 dmg walrus punch duration 20s shadowfiend now has four razes sniper has assassinate replaced with 14/12/10/8 second cd, 100 mana blink gyro stun replaced with eblade except no damage dream coil stun now 1.5 seconds witch doctor stun bounces now 3/5/7/9 witch doctor heal now 15/25/45/55 lina fiery soul replaced with a net ala meepo earthbind ogre magi stun duration now 2s chance to multicast rescaled to 50% rubick now gains the full level of any spell he steals, if enemy has aghs he gets aghs upgrade demon edge cost now 2k rapier provides 350 dmg mom recipe now 750g BoT recipe now 1500g unholy strength now gives 30 AS
Jakiro looked like he recieved a huge buff last patch, but I rarely see agh's on him and it's hard to keep an enemy in the aoe for that full 14 sec duration.
You guys make fun of targe, but 2k range skewer, 25% proc chance for helix, sniper with an 8s blink, and a 4th raze for SF are all prices I would happily pay to have Void removed from the game.
Best part of 2k magnus skewer is that it would take more than 2 seconds for him to reach the full range.
And not that Jakiro needs buffs, but someone suggested giving macropyre a 2 second cling time if people left the AoE, and that seemed like a reasonable buff to the ability.
Could see razors ult not persisting through death. What other ult can you run two of that you don't need to do anything for, just stand there that also persists through death? Would be a nerf without completely destroying him. Can still laser light show with 2 ults, just have to play semi smart not herp derp kill me guys, whatevs.
Some general nerfs to tinker without fucking him too hard are fixing the rearm blink. Not allowing BoTs usage on brew elementals, I'll never understand why that's a thing, are they a hero or are they not icefrog? Pick one and stick with it. Make bottle not give that one last tick once you TP out of the base. The fact that you can leave base before you're full and drink your bottle in lane to top yourself off, might not be a huge deal on most heroes. On tinker the fact you do that a thousand times a game adds up, the less time he's in base the more time he's farming something. Making every stop to refill mana take an extra second doesn't break the heroes back but it does help to slow him down a bit.
Void chrono cooldown scaling. 130/120/110 90 with aghs or something.
Seeing as I can't find a post that even mentions Riki means he needs more love! I would like to see him get slight base stat buffs, slight move speed buff and slight scaling buff. I would also like to see his smoke radius scale a bit. Long live the sneaky goat!
i wouldn't mind seeing 4 protect 1 come back and maybe even a stricter hero pool.
I love the anticipation of a 4 protect one. Can they make enough room? Will the carry be big enough? Can the other team deal with him?
Also i used to love the drafting before, someone picked a weird hero people would lose their minds. Now it feels like it's abit more "oh trilane tinker-necrophos-gyro thats weird i guess'
I think too many people want buffs on hero's that were strong last meta, but due to other hero's buffs not in favour anymore.
For example AM is still a really good ( if not the best ) 4 protect 1 carry, and nothing has changed in that regard. I think mostly that the OP hero's need nerfs, and some bottom of the pool hero's need buffs. But don't give middle of the pack hero's a buff, and nerf top of the pack hero's. That would be just another meta till the next patch to do it all over?
I really think this is also the reason why 6.82 hasn't come out yet, because Icefrog is more critical in what to change,m because alot of hero's are perfect as they are and will get picked more when the OP hero's receive nerfs
On September 20 2014 06:54 Chewbacca. wrote: I just want some CM buff. They went like 15 patches in a row nerfing her starting int/mana and now nobody plays her but me
On September 20 2014 08:41 Chewbacca. wrote: Make it so rearm doesn't reset blink dagger damage timer
Honestly, I don't see why people think this would make the hero less bullshit.
The situation where this gets a kill is probably like, 2% of tinker's kills / not dying. Ghost scepter is a bigger issue IMO
If it was changed then that percentage would increase quite a bit I think. How many times shortly after tink gets blink or level one Dagondfoes he secure the kill by rearming blink and getting one more laser off. Now all you'd have to do is auto him once and then run and he don't catch up.
I also don't think he needs as much of a nerd as a lot if people suggest. People in general just don't pick Herod that are good at countering him/deny his jungle.
Lycan - howl (damage boost lowered, cd increased), wolves (slower fade on stealth, lower regen), ulti (no damage boosts)
Tinker - march does not affect magic immune units, damaged reduction to march
DP - lower move speed bonus from 3rd skill, reduce hero damage on ulti (tower damage is fine imo)
Shadow Shaman - adjust targetting priority on wards so that towers shoot them first, nerf hp so that they always die in 2 hits from any hero/tower source and 4 hits from creeps
Did you just say nerf earth spirit, and list him above with the likes of void, tinker and viper? Hero with the worst pub win rate by a solid margin who isn't even in CM?
On September 20 2014 10:13 Ryder. wrote: Did you just say nerf earth spirit, and list him above with the likes of void, tinker and viper? Hero with the worst pub win rate by a solid margin who isn't even in CM?
Earth is still a very good hero, it is just extremely hard to play him. Having a bad pub win rate doesn't mean anything in the hands of pro players.
On September 20 2014 10:13 Ryder. wrote: Did you just say nerf earth spirit, and list him above with the likes of void, tinker and viper? Hero with the worst pub win rate by a solid margin who isn't even in CM?
Earth is still a very good hero, it is just extremely hard to play him. Having a bad pub win rate doesn't mean anything in the hands of pro players.
He isn't even in CM yet, so what exactly is his OPness being based on? Getting rekt by Jeraxai in his last pub?
Good players can dominate on most heroes, I feel like the reason people notice Earth Spirit is that good ES players don't come around much, so when it does happen people notice.
Edit: I'm not arguing he can't be strong, I'm saying it seems a bit early to call for nerfs lol
On September 20 2014 10:13 Ryder. wrote: Did you just say nerf earth spirit, and list him above with the likes of void, tinker and viper? Hero with the worst pub win rate by a solid margin who isn't even in CM?
Earth is still a very good hero, it is just extremely hard to play him. Having a bad pub win rate doesn't mean anything in the hands of pro players.
He isn't even in CM yet, so what exactly is his OPness being based on? Getting rekt by Jeraxai in his last pub?
Good players can dominate on most heroes, I feel like the reason people notice Earth Spirit is that good ES players don't come around much, so when it does happen people notice.
Edit: I'm not arguing he can't be strong, I'm saying it seems a bit early to call for nerfs lol
ES would probably be first pick/ban material if he got in to the game how he is now. He's crazy versatile with an insane ult and 5s aoe silence -- built in blink dagger with epicentre level ult damage
On September 20 2014 06:48 Imperfect1987 wrote: Seeing as I can't find a post that even mentions Riki means he needs more love! I would like to see him get slight base stat buffs, slight move speed buff and slight scaling buff. I would also like to see his smoke radius scale a bit. Long live the sneaky goat!
maybe you should've brought a gem into the thread if you wanted to find him
Some of the currently overplayed heroes (Void, DP, etc) just need minor nerfs, such as from increasing the cooldown to their ultimates. This will indirectly buff other less picked heroes. Tinker's march should also be changed from universal to magical damage because this spell is really retarded. Maybe add a 25 mana cost to blink dagger or increase the gold cost. Yeah, that's about it.
On September 20 2014 10:13 Ryder. wrote: Did you just say nerf earth spirit, and list him above with the likes of void, tinker and viper? Hero with the worst pub win rate by a solid margin who isn't even in CM?
Earth is still a very good hero, it is just extremely hard to play him. Having a bad pub win rate doesn't mean anything in the hands of pro players.
Yes but this game doesn't get pached around pro dota, but pub dota. Source: Spirit Breaker.
On September 20 2014 10:13 Ryder. wrote: Did you just say nerf earth spirit, and list him above with the likes of void, tinker and viper? Hero with the worst pub win rate by a solid margin who isn't even in CM?
Earth is still a very good hero, it is just extremely hard to play him. Having a bad pub win rate doesn't mean anything in the hands of pro players.
Yes but this game doesn't get pached around pro dota, but pub dota. Source: Spirit Breaker.
A hero that's as versatile as Earth doesn't won't be ignored by pros, I assure you. Having a stun and a silence, both of which can become AoE with Magnetize, which is an incredible damaging ult in itself is almost first ban/pick material.
Rhasta needs to be nerfed with death prophet somehow - they are too strong pushers right now.
I wish Medusa would be picked more often - she counters void and she is pretty... *ahem* she is ugly badass in late game. Too bad she has nothing to do in early game and needs good supports.
On September 20 2014 00:25 kirsed wrote: Nerf tower bounty. Nerf laser nerf first two levels of rhastas non-ult spells undo void turn rate change. Lower cuncussive shot range to 1200~. Kill lycan. Reduce dp ult damage to towers keep damage to heroes. Buff qop blink. Blink disable to 4 seconds. No complete sentences woo.
From my retarded ass blog.
Fiery Soul duration increased to 10. Fiery Soul maximum stacks increased to 5. Fiery soul no longer gives bonus attack speed. For each stack of Fiery Soul Lina’s spells deal 5/10/15/20 additional damage. For each stack of Fiery Sould Lina’s spells cooldowns are reduced by 0.1/0.2/0.3/0.4
Well it seems that noone think AM need a buff of some kind to go even again with other carry. His laning stage sucks, his hard carry potential is hilariously bad compare to other hard carry. In a blink meta his blink isn't that impressive. His only time to shine is between the 15 to 35minute mark that he can farm the fastest w/o pressure and roll over the enemy carry with sheer item, but when your team is already at least 3k gold down from loosing towers, accomplish that is extremely hard . And he has 0 catchup potential, unlike void or razor.
On September 20 2014 17:09 abar wrote: Rhasta needs to be nerfed with death prophet somehow - they are too strong pushers right now.
I wish Medusa would be picked more often - she counters void and she is pretty... *ahem* she is ugly badass in late game. Too bad she has nothing to do in early game and needs good supports.
On September 20 2014 17:09 abar wrote: Rhasta needs to be nerfed with death prophet somehow - they are too strong pushers right now.
I wish Medusa would be picked more often - she counters void and she is pretty... *ahem* she is ugly badass in late game. Too bad she has nothing to do in early game and needs good supports.
I like the current meta a lot and i dont want big changes i prefer the game to stay as it is.I like the pushing strategies that punish greedy/boring plays. I would like to see some small nerfs to lame heroes like void, tinker, lycan.I would like to see 5 bans before the first picks in total 8 bans for each team.I think this will add a lot more diversity to the game and will allow team to pick more to what they want rather than to cut imba heroes from the opponents that results the first 2 pick to be the same and the same all the time.Teams will have more space to build up sneaky and surprising line ups without to be punished by GTO strategies that hard.Also with 5 bans the whining about imba will be reduced.
Timbersaw deals extra massive damage to Treant Protector
Kunkka and Tidehunter unpickable on the same team.
Viper deals extra damage to Pugna if Pugna is facing Viper.
Lycan is automatically banned as a neutral ban in Captains Mode, also legs shorten, tail gets skinny, snout gets longer and he goes into sewers training four turtles for pizza leftovers.
Techies get bonus gold if flamed by the other team.
Nerif announced.
A new option which allows you to reduce the chance of getting matched with (but not against) people from certain countries (based on IP).
What I'm gathering from this is that way too many people want to overnerf tinker just because he's annoying. His winrate in pubs is nothing to write home about and his winrate in pro games is even worse.
On September 21 2014 01:11 blobrus wrote: What I'm gathering from this is that way too many people want to overnerf tinker just because he's annoying. His winrate in pubs is nothing to write home about and his winrate in pro games is even worse.
Because the average pubber does not want to improve and play correctly agaist him ( get extra wards for ancients, roam on him mid etc etc ) they all want a 9 minute ( not needed )blink dagger on any support they play.
Just because people are bad against the hero they want a nerf.
Most hero's ( except Lycanthrope ) only need minor nerfs so more different hero's get viable and that's it.
There are a few hero's that could use a skill rework to become viable ( viable also means getting into CM )
On September 21 2014 01:11 blobrus wrote: What I'm gathering from this is that way too many people want to overnerf tinker just because he's annoying. His winrate in pubs is nothing to write home about and his winrate in pro games is even worse.
Because the average pubber does not want to improve and play correctly agaist him ( get extra wards for ancients, roam on him mid etc etc ) they all want a 9 minute ( not needed )blink dagger on any support they play.
Just because people are bad against the hero they want a nerf.
Most hero's ( except Lycanthrope ) only need minor nerfs so more different hero's get viable and that's it.
There are a few hero's that could use a skill rework to become viable ( viable also means getting into CM )
On September 21 2014 01:11 blobrus wrote: What I'm gathering from this is that way too many people want to overnerf tinker just because he's annoying. His winrate in pubs is nothing to write home about and his winrate in pro games is even worse.
Because the average pubber does not want to improve and play correctly agaist him ( get extra wards for ancients, roam on him mid etc etc ) they all want a 9 minute ( not needed )blink dagger on any support they play.
Just because people are bad against the hero they want a nerf.
Most hero's ( except Lycanthrope ) only need minor nerfs so more different hero's get viable and that's it.
There are a few hero's that could use a skill rework to become viable ( viable also means getting into CM )
and even less hero's actually need a buff
but change is fun, this isnt sc2 : )
Change is fun, but not endless cycling of the same meta's because OP hero's get nerfed hard, and in current meta UP hero's gets buffed alot. We don't want power creep in dota 2. I think in a vacuum 95% of the hero's are in the right place, just need to tune down the OP hero's to diversify the pro draft hero pool
On September 21 2014 01:11 blobrus wrote: What I'm gathering from this is that way too many people want to overnerf tinker just because he's annoying. His winrate in pubs is nothing to write home about and his winrate in pro games is even worse.
Because the average pubber does not want to improve and play correctly agaist him ( get extra wards for ancients, roam on him mid etc etc ) they all want a 9 minute ( not needed )blink dagger on any support they play.
Just because people are bad against the hero they want a nerf.
Most hero's ( except Lycanthrope ) only need minor nerfs so more different hero's get viable and that's it.
There are a few hero's that could use a skill rework to become viable ( viable also means getting into CM )
and even less hero's actually need a buff
but change is fun, this isnt sc2 : )
Change is fun, but not endless cycling of the same meta's because OP hero's get nerfed hard, and in current meta UP hero's gets buffed alot. We don't want power creep in dota 2. I think in a vacuum 5% of the hero's are in the right place, just need to tune down the OP hero's to diversify the pro draft hero pool
who cares if tinker is op or not, he's anoying as hell to play against turning any game into a 50 marchfest thats not fun for anyone
On September 21 2014 01:11 blobrus wrote: What I'm gathering from this is that way too many people want to overnerf tinker just because he's annoying. His winrate in pubs is nothing to write home about and his winrate in pro games is even worse.
Because the average pubber does not want to improve and play correctly agaist him ( get extra wards for ancients, roam on him mid etc etc ) they all want a 9 minute ( not needed )blink dagger on any support they play.
Just because people are bad against the hero they want a nerf.
Most hero's ( except Lycanthrope ) only need minor nerfs so more different hero's get viable and that's it.
There are a few hero's that could use a skill rework to become viable ( viable also means getting into CM )
and even less hero's actually need a buff
but change is fun, this isnt sc2 : )
Change is fun, but not endless cycling of the same meta's because OP hero's get nerfed hard, and in current meta UP hero's gets buffed alot. We don't want power creep in dota 2. I think in a vacuum 5% of the hero's are in the right place, just need to tune down the OP hero's to diversify the pro draft hero pool
who cares if tinker is op or not, he's anoying as hell to play against turning any game into a 50 marchfest thats not fun for anyone
Build an early pipe, hit timing of pre 20 minutes onto all towers and tinker has no map to farm aka he has no impact.
If anoying to play against is the standard to nerf hero's then geesh, just remove dota from the face of the earth
Buff night stalker and spirit breaker please. Both heroes are in need of loooove :3
Not sure what to do with any of them, really. SB is in some kind of weird position between hard carry and support, but a hero with 2 passives that needs right clicks doesn't feel like good support-material. On the other hand, farming means you are sacrificing his charge completely, or end up with an underfarmed carry that runs around looking for kills all the time.
A non-balance change the client could really use: a better ticket interface that will give salient details about what comes with the ticket. Many tournament websites are bad about showing you things like cosmetics currently included, stretch goals, estimated number of games, league standings/invites...these are all things that could be standardized easily. Tournament organizers would still be free to run their websites as they see fit but they could more easily inform potential ticket-buyers through the interface about their potential purchase, all across language barriers.
Now that hero loadout browsing includes sets available to purchase those too could link to tickets.
Now that I think about it - and this came into laser-like focus during compendium season when I was trying to sell surplus player cards - the market interface needs a LOT of usability love. There are so many player cards I didn't bother trying to sell just because it was too much of a hassle for 1c on my Steam account. This is lost money for Valve since they make a nice cut on low-price transactions.
On September 21 2014 01:11 blobrus wrote: What I'm gathering from this is that way too many people want to overnerf tinker just because he's annoying. His winrate in pubs is nothing to write home about and his winrate in pro games is even worse.
Because the average pubber does not want to improve and play correctly agaist him ( get extra wards for ancients, roam on him mid etc etc ) they all want a 9 minute ( not needed )blink dagger on any support they play.
Just because people are bad against the hero they want a nerf.
Most hero's ( except Lycanthrope ) only need minor nerfs so more different hero's get viable and that's it.
There are a few hero's that could use a skill rework to become viable ( viable also means getting into CM )
and even less hero's actually need a buff
but change is fun, this isnt sc2 : )
Change is fun, but not endless cycling of the same meta's because OP hero's get nerfed hard, and in current meta UP hero's gets buffed alot. We don't want power creep in dota 2. I think in a vacuum 5% of the hero's are in the right place, just need to tune down the OP hero's to diversify the pro draft hero pool
who cares if tinker is op or not, he's anoying as hell to play against turning any game into a 50 marchfest thats not fun for anyone
Build an early pipe, hit timing of pre 20 minutes onto all towers and tinker has no map to farm aka he has no impact.
If anoying to play against is the standard to nerf hero's then geesh, just remove dota from the face of the earth
Cliffmother, spacecow, riki, ursa, bloodseeker are heroes which are not competitive because they're very annoying to play against for a large portion of the player base. Another exemple is nyx, he was not nerfed so heavily because of balance but because of pubs, though he still remains a good pick as they reduced his damage which were the problem in pubs but kept his utility, main reason he's picked in CM. WK is an exemple of a hero they had a hard time to buff without making him a nightmare for a lot of players.
TLDR : "annoying to play against" is enough to warrant a nerf.
I'd like to see the chrono bugs fixed, or even have it stop all outside projectiles like auto attacks and skywrath ultimate until AFTER the duration ends (like how the mothership in SC2 was first announced).
LC and Brood I think are ok for CM. Phoenix, Earthspirit, TB need some work.
Late to the party, but these are some of the things I think we could or should see
-Nerf to T1 tower and/or assist gold
-Void base dmg, turn speed reduced
-Simultaneous eye of storms removed, reduce plasma field dmg
-Increase man cost and/or duration of re-arm. Dmg-disabled blink dagger can't be rearmed (if they really wanna kill tinker off)
-Increased mana cost and/or cooldown for crypt swarm
-Some sort of nerf to skywrath, I feel like you could nerf almost anything about this hero to balance him, as it's the whole package that makes him so good. Base move-speed, arcane/concussive mana cost/cooldown, concussive range, silence duration
-Not sure about enigma, maybe nerf eidolon damage or stat growth
-Increase lycan ulti cooldown, maybe increase howl mana cost
remove smoke, bring back the tp scroll tower invulnerability and gimme back my 2h farm games. i don't care that much about the current strong heroes, i don't think they have that big of an impact in pubs as they do in the pro scene. one thing that i would like to see is to ban the obvious op shit from ranked mm just like they're banned from cm mode.
On September 21 2014 07:12 Frogstomp wrote: Late to the party, but these are some of the things I think we could or should see
-Nerf to T1 tower and/or assist gold
-Void base dmg, turn speed reduced
-Simultaneous eye of storms removed, reduce plasma field dmg
-Increase man cost and/or duration of re-arm. Dmg-disabled blink dagger can't be rearmed (if they really wanna kill tinker off)
-Increased mana cost and/or cooldown for crypt swarm
-Some sort of nerf to skywrath, I feel like you could nerf almost anything about this hero to balance him, as it's the whole package that makes him so good. Base move-speed, arcane/concussive mana cost/cooldown, concussive range, silence duration
-Not sure about enigma, maybe nerf eidolon damage or stat growth
-Increase lycan ulti cooldown, maybe increase howl mana cost
On September 21 2014 07:12 Frogstomp wrote: Late to the party, but these are some of the things I think we could or should see
-Nerf to T1 tower and/or assist gold
-Void base dmg, turn speed reduced
-Simultaneous eye of storms removed, reduce plasma field dmg
-Increase man cost and/or duration of re-arm. Dmg-disabled blink dagger can't be rearmed (if they really wanna kill tinker off)
-Increased mana cost and/or cooldown for crypt swarm
-Some sort of nerf to skywrath, I feel like you could nerf almost anything about this hero to balance him, as it's the whole package that makes him so good. Base move-speed, arcane/concussive mana cost/cooldown, concussive range, silence duration
-Not sure about enigma, maybe nerf eidolon damage or stat growth
-Increase lycan ulti cooldown, maybe increase howl mana cost
this does nothing against razor
Dunno man looks like it softens him up on both ends. Even a small change to plasma field damage would make it harder for him to get a lot of those early kills.
Really interested in seeing spectre, dusa, pl, get some buffs. PL was way too good for a while but now he's kind of shit, and medusa is almost never played.
On September 21 2014 13:07 Aerisky wrote: Really interested in seeing spectre, dusa, pl, get some buffs. PL was way too good for a while but now he's kind of shit, and medusa is almost never played.
Dusa with a couple buffs(like base stats/ move speed/ starting armor) could be a fantastic mid on radiant from what ive seen, i feel like a couple changes could make her way too strong.
On September 21 2014 14:04 SoylentGamer wrote: Slardar. One of the most abused heroes in the game, he needs love.
I think maybe take the damage penalty off sprint? perhaps make the stun better level 1? honestly almost everything about the hero is shit other than hes good for is roshing early. His stun is ass early levels, his sprint is ok, and his bash has to be leveled later cause his stun is shit at level 1 and his sprint needs levels too. Maybe either increase cast range on ult to like 1000/1200 make stun level 1 like 2 seconds or take damage penalty off sprint. Almost any of these and im pretty sure he still wouldn't be OP.
On September 21 2014 14:04 SoylentGamer wrote: Slardar. One of the most abused heroes in the game, he needs love.
I think maybe take the damage penalty off sprint? perhaps make the stun better level 1? honestly almost everything about the hero is shit other than hes good for is roshing early. His stun is ass early levels, his sprint is ok, and his bash has to be leveled later cause his stun is shit at level 1 and his sprint needs levels too. Maybe either increase cast range on ult to like 1000/1200 make stun level 1 like 2 seconds or take damage penalty off sprint. Almost any of these and im pretty sure he still wouldn't be OP.
+attack speed on sprint? make it a ghetto mask of madness?
We are gonna soon get into the place of where everything is imbalanced.
The chronosphere definitely needs some sort of nerf. Doom is good as it is since he can be shut down early but can get back in later thanks to his devour. Blink Dagger SHOULD be nerfed somehow. Every single hero can get it and almost every non mobile hero is extremely mobile all of a sudden with no drawbacks at all. Makes a ton of heroes viable and a lot of naturally mobile heroes weaker. Since when do you see "AM, Weaver, Qop etc.." played in real games? Extremely rare if none. Actually that dagger nerf would solve TON of problems we see in pro scene today.
What is Void and Tinker winrate in the professional scene? Aren't their winrate 40%+ or something? People overrated these heroes and they can be easily dealt with.
The real OP hero is DP,Doom,SS and Lycan(Dire Side). DP need a movement speed nerf. Doom need an increase cooldown on his ulti. Nerf SS wards count. Lycan Howl needs to be further nerfed sadly. Rekt towers too easily.
Heroes that need to be buffed: Spirit Breaker Anti-Mage Bloodseeker Medusa Spectre
Most of them are late-gamers and thats why they fall of the meta. Hope Icefrog can somehow at least bring them back in some form and make them situational.
Rhasta barely wins more in pro matches in 6.81 than Void.
Meanwhile, TA, barely wins less than Lycan. Where are the TA nerfs?
This according to DatDota. Don't know where you (or anyone else) are getting their "SS is op" from. ~50% winrate at a very high rate of picks. If you have stats that show I'm wrong please let me see them so we can work off the same page.
On September 21 2014 19:52 FakeDeath wrote: What is Void and Tinker winrate in the professional scene? Aren't their winrate 40%+ or something? People overrated these heroes and they can be easily dealt with.
The real OP hero is DP,Doom,SS and Lycan(Dire Side). DP need a movement speed nerf. Doom need an increase cooldown on his ulti. Nerf SS wards count. Lycan Howl needs to be further nerfed sadly. Rekt towers too easily.
Heroes that need to be buffed: Spirit Breaker Anti-Mage Bloodseeker Medusa Spectre
Most of them are late-gamers and thats why they fall of the meta. Hope Icefrog can somehow at least bring them back in some form and make them situational.
their winrate is not the only thing that is important here. of course they can be dealt with but its annoying and requires alot of teamwork and coordination. its very frustrating to play against a tinker who delays a game thats basically over for another 20-30minutes
spectre does not need a buff. shes perfectly fine in my opinion
Just as heroes like WD needed a few rounds of "notice me!" buffs to get used, Tinker really needs a "forget about me!" nerf. He's not particularly strong, he's just annoying when he's in every pub.
Void, I think, needs a genuine nerf. In pubs he's seriously strong and he's still a top pick/ban in pro games regardless of his winrate.
On September 21 2014 20:42 Belisarius wrote: Just as heroes like WD needed a few rounds of "notice me!" buffs to get used, Tinker really needs a "forget about me!" nerf. He's not particularly strong, he's just annoying when he's in every pub.
Void, I think, needs a genuine nerf. In pubs he's seriously strong and he's still a top pick/ban in pro games regardless of his winrate.
just nerf him so he isnt hilariously strong in the early game
On September 21 2014 20:42 Belisarius wrote: Just as heroes like WD needed a few rounds of "notice me!" buffs to get used, Tinker really needs a "forget about me!" nerf. He's not particularly strong, he's just annoying when he's in every pub.
Void, I think, needs a genuine nerf. In pubs he's seriously strong and he's still a top pick/ban in pro games regardless of his winrate.
just nerf him so he isnt hilariously strong in the early game
also PLEASE nerf offlane
I wouldnt argue against it , but to me the offlane is stronger now as everyone is going full greed/roaming supports..... if the safelane farmer + support stay in the lane most if not all the offlaners are shut down ,but teams like to go greedy (junglers of some sort -> enigma/doom/SK/others) or just send the 2 supports roaming looking for kills and leave the "offlaner" in a 1v1 situation . so its not just that offlane is easier (which it is abit) its the Meta/playstyle that changed.
On September 21 2014 21:16 Targe wrote: couldnt the meta have changed due to the changes
Probably , so you say because it was easier to offlane , they send the support roaming/ jungling ? maybe... but i still feel (i might be wrong) that when a team chooses to shut down an offlane , they do it , but if its a doom/bat they go jungling to recover.
void need nerf ulti cd or timer and bkb canbe purgeed by diffusal blade thanks and can be refreshed diffusal blade,Disabled blink dagger cant be rearmed
all we need is a gold gain nerf in any form, ideally towers or ganks though. maybe even revert the gold/s change this will naturally bring ricing heroes back into the game
The main hero I'd like to see changed is Void. It's not so much that he's annoying as it is that he's just good at EVERYTHING without needing to be even close to six-slotted. Damage, area control, single target lockdown, escape, evasion-there really isn't another hero that has all that stuff with only mask of madness, and the fact that he's a late-game carry you can offlane is a testament to that. My guess is they change the backtrack dynamic somehow-maybe put it on a cooldown-get rid of the time walk slow, and increase the chrono CD to be more like Warlock or Enigma. Maybe a stats nerf too-something to just make him more reliant either on farm or his allies, and to punish him for careless chronos.
Tinker I think is in a better place than Void, he'll probably get an Int nerf and maybe they will rescale his damage spells. Less mana to cycle through things, harder to last-hit early game, more reliant on farm. Maybe also a BoT price nerf or something.
Would like a Windranger buff-she's very fun but it just doesn't feel like she accomplishes enough with her skill shots to justify picking her over an easier and more effective hero.
It would be interesting to see what would happen if they buff tower hp/armor a bit. Make it so that pushing isn't always better than ganking or farming.
I need a patch so that the new meta will not be a direct result of the changes in the end. And continuously buffing heroes until someone notices how broken that hero is , is not a way of balancing a game.
On September 22 2014 00:16 RuiBarbO wrote: The main hero I'd like to see changed is Void. It's not so much that he's annoying as it is that he's just good at EVERYTHING without needing to be even close to six-slotted. Damage, area control, single target lockdown, escape, evasion-there really isn't another hero that has all that stuff with only mask of madness, and the fact that he's a late-game carry you can offlane is a testament to that. My guess is they change the backtrack dynamic somehow-maybe put it on a cooldown-get rid of the time walk slow, and increase the chrono CD to be more like Warlock or Enigma. Maybe a stats nerf too-something to just make him more reliant either on farm or his allies, and to punish him for careless chronos.
Mhmmm, no. Those nerfs would make him Spirit Breaker tier and most are unnecessary anyway.
If icefrog doesn't swallow his pride and revert the rearm-blink change, I'll be seriously disappointed.
Beyond that, all tinker really needs is for march to be less obnoxious to push into. Maybe a buff to pipe vs. universal, or a change to composite so weave/warcry etc help.
On September 22 2014 04:32 teddyoojo wrote: tinker is fine, just not in pubs which means he will get changed cuz we all know game is balanced for pubs
i dunno its kinda hard to be upset with the state of game balance. dota2 is pretty clearly the best esport balance wise, and its pretty impressive considering the hero pool.
icefrog and co have been great at maintaining pub->pro balance, no reason to think they will abandon that now.
On September 21 2014 14:04 SoylentGamer wrote: Slardar. One of the most abused heroes in the game, he needs love.
Amp just needs better cast range. Everything else kinda makes sense as is... but when compared to how OP track is, and how far away you can cast it from, amp just sucks.
yeah ns got nerfed pretty hard indirectly when they changed the day night cycle he doesnt have enough items to properly do something in the first night, and by the time the 2nd night comes he most likely hasnt made enough of an impact in the game
Icefraud does balance around pubs if he has to. Remember the only reason the space cow is nerfed is because of pub complaints and stats. Also I'm pretty sure Nyx nerfs were mostly dependent on pubs too.
Faceless Void --> Much longer Chrono-CD’s on lvl 1 and 2 to make his early teamfight viability lower. Chrono is often used for random solokills, imho thats a clear sign that its cooldown is too low.
Slardar --> Complete rework imho. (You can still play him, just pick Centaur and get Mom/Medaillon/Basher, nothing of value is lost, you even get SUPERSPRINT and an extra nuke + passive ) Imho Slardars main problem is, that he does shit dmg if there is no AD on a target… But if you actually gank someone you often have to Blink (or Sprint) --> Crush --> AD and then pray for a bash hit or you won’t do much if not someone else is throwing a second stun for you.
If no rework: Sprint needs to give something more than just speed. How about keeping the general dmg penalty but giving him „stun“-resistance in exchange (like a Mom-BKB combo… You’ll get hurt bad but won’t get stunned… Or something like a linkens effect for 1-3 number of stuns)?
Crush is imho not bad. A bit low dmg on early levels but thats about it. This spell imho isn’t the issue at all (stomp on centaur is great, this is basically the same)
Bash is bash… Why not give his bash the Brewmaster treatment and make it guaranteed every 15 seconds or something like that.
Thinker --> I hate that guy. Change March DMG type? Imho his ancient farming is way too easy and for a hero that only cares about a fast Bot/Blink this is a nice area to nerf him --> Somehow make ancients immune to March. Rearm --> Should not reset the dmg-cd on Blinkdagger.
Kunkka --> I don’t know how and this is most likely very personal, but his power-curve seems strange (weak in the very early levels, strong midgame, then weak again until very late. Assuming your not snowballing )… It just feels kinda awkward when playing him.
Lina --> Obviously needs more range; for her stun .
Doom --> Gets money too easy. Change something about devour.
On September 22 2014 16:10 G3CKO wrote: Icefraud does balance around pubs if he has to. Remember the only reason the space cow is nerfed is because of pub complaints and stats. Also I'm pretty sure Nyx nerfs were mostly dependent on pubs too.
Pretty sure all of you giving SB as proof, as well as adding occasionally an additional incorect example are wrong. Nyx was 1st pick 1st ban in pro games for some time, not that shocking he was slightly nerfed back then.
Dota isnt balanced on pubs, dispite the Spirit Breaker change whom every second poster in this thread sagely points out.
Icefrog does not primarily balance from pubs but he has made changes in the past to heroes that were too prevalent in them. The prime example I can think of is Ursa, which was nerfed despite never appearing in competitive games simply because pubs had no idea how to cope with him back in the day.
I hope to god they change Blink Dagger. I dislike how everyone hero is now geared towards Blink Dagger, hopefully Shadow Blade and Force Staff get buffed.
Buff Windrunner. Her Q and W seem so lackluster compared to many other skills in the game.
Nerf DP. She's my favorite hero, but she's just so insanely strong after lvl 11 now.
Nerf Void and Tinker. They are not fun to play with or against.
Nerf Blink Dagger. Seems like every game there are 4 or more blink daggers now. The team with more Blink Daggers usually wins. I like that it costs no mana to blink, but make it cost more, have a higher cooldown, higher deactive from getting hit, or a combination of the three.
On September 22 2014 17:46 Dromar wrote: Buff Windrunner. Her Q and W seem so lackluster compared to many other skills in the game.
Nerf DP. She's my favorite hero, but she's just so insanely strong after lvl 11 now.
Nerf Void and Tinker. They are not fun to play with or against.
Nerf Blink Dagger. Seems like every game there are 4 or more blink daggers now. The team with more Blink Daggers usually wins. I like that it costs no mana to blink, but make it cost more, have a higher cooldown, higher deactive from getting hit, or a combination of the three.
I agree with blink. It is supposed to be harder to escape with it when get chased. Maybe 7-10 second deactivation & higher cooldown make it somewhat okish.
for blinkdagger, maybe make it so that the downtime stacks when you are hit by multiple instances of damage. like +1 second for every time you are hit in a timeframe of 5 seconds (max 1 stack per second).
On September 22 2014 17:21 Firebolt145 wrote: Icefrog does not primarily balance from pubs but he has made changes in the past to heroes that were too prevalent in them. The prime example I can think of is Ursa, which was nerfed despite never appearing in competitive games simply because pubs had no idea how to cope with him back in the day.
didnt they buff his fury swipes in the same patch they nerfed overpower? but yeah ursa is a prime example of a hero who got nerfred / tweaked / changed because thousands of scrubs got eaten by the mighty bear.
You know what change would help the game? Euls can now be cast on allies. It would 100% change void chrono. He would go from a hero that fucks people over on split push AND in huge team fights to just someone who kills heros one on one. Get a euls on a support, sit back. Have him jump in and just save whatever target he is going on.
On September 22 2014 18:27 Deathmanbob wrote: You know what change would help the game? Euls can now be cast on allies. It would 100% change void chrono. He would go from a hero that fucks people over on split push AND in huge team fights to just someone who kills heros one on one. Get a euls on a support, sit back. Have him jump in and just save whatever target he is going on.
i think void is too good of an item already, that would just make us have 10 euls every game (+ refresher for more euls).
On September 22 2014 18:27 Deathmanbob wrote: You know what change would help the game? Euls can now be cast on allies. It would 100% change void chrono. He would go from a hero that fucks people over on split push AND in huge team fights to just someone who kills heros one on one. Get a euls on a support, sit back. Have him jump in and just save whatever target he is going on.
Then you gave a new tool for ruiners to ruin even more games. Eul your ally when channeling a spell, gg wp
On September 22 2014 18:27 Deathmanbob wrote: You know what change would help the game? Euls can now be cast on allies. It would 100% change void chrono. He would go from a hero that fucks people over on split push AND in huge team fights to just someone who kills heros one on one. Get a euls on a support, sit back. Have him jump in and just save whatever target he is going on.
Then you gave a new tool for ruiners to ruin even more games. Eul your ally when channeling a spell, gg wp
Shadow Blade/Force staff buffs to make them more competitive with buffed blink would be cool. Something like Blink CD up to 17secs so that its not as effective to just spam to move around faster. Force Staff distance up to 800 Shadowblade a bit cheaper (Broadsword + Shadow Amulet = cost down to 2800)
Blink is hard, because although it's stupid to have every single hero buying it, a lot of the legitimate bought-blink-before-it-was-cool heroes are in pretty good places, or are even a little underpowered. You really want to make it less attractive on edge-case heroes without reducing its core functionality.
I feel like a cost increase is an obvious solution, especially paired with buffs to shadowblade and force. Heroes who really need blink would still get it, but the others might be tempted to buy something else.
On September 22 2014 17:46 Dromar wrote: Buff Windrunner. Her Q and W seem so lackluster compared to many other skills in the game.
Nerf DP. She's my favorite hero, but she's just so insanely strong after lvl 11 now.
Nerf Void and Tinker. They are not fun to play with or against.
Nerf Blink Dagger. Seems like every game there are 4 or more blink daggers now. The team with more Blink Daggers usually wins. I like that it costs no mana to blink, but make it cost more, have a higher cooldown, higher deactive from getting hit, or a combination of the three.
I agree with blink. It is supposed to be harder to escape with it when get chased. Maybe 7-10 second deactivation & higher cooldown make it somewhat okish.
Clock is perfectly fine imo. He's seeing a decent amount of competitive play without being overrepresented. Meanwhile in pubs he has a perfect 50% record and is like the 54th most picked hero out of 108.
Just nerfing the offlane would make him more represented in competitive as it would push greedier picks away.
He's also my favourite/most played hero and I dont want him to become fotm so please no buffs volvo
Ok, Ok, I'll settle for Sven. Just a little attack speed buff to warcry or maybe give him phase while its active. He just needs a little love so he can be on the front line of every fight where he belongs.
Imho the meta atm has not much to do with the heroes. The heroes that can wreck bases/towers early existed for an eternity and have not gotten that much stronger (Pugna, DP, Lycan).
So what then? Less Passive/Kill/Assist/Tower Gold --> Mek and all kind of „early“ Items come later (again). Harder offlane --> One less kinda farmed or at least leveled hero (again).
This would basically rewind Dota to a few patches back, i doubt Icefrog will be going that way.
If he did, we would all praise him for bring back the dota we loved....
.....and 8 months later we would be complaining how the game was to passive and we would want people to be aggressive.
It is the cycle of dota. There are a lot of viable heroes this patch and only a few need some adjusting to calm shit down a little. Buff a couple of "anti push heroes" and everything will be fine.
On September 22 2014 22:41 Plansix wrote: If he did, we would all praise him for bring back the dota we loved....
.....and 8 months later we would be complaining how the game was to passive and we would want people to be aggressive.
It is the cycle of dota. There are a lot of viable heroes this patch and only a few need some adjusting to calm shit down a little. Buff a couple of "anti push heroes" and everything will be fine.
*clears throat* "Its the ciiiiiiiiircle of crieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees..."
Seriously now, buff Sven plx. And Jugger +5 MS. Nerf void plx.
On September 22 2014 19:06 Firebolt145 wrote: Euls on allies would be too strong, too easy to save teammates with.
I seem to remember them actually disabling Eul's on allies after TI2. Thought then that it was because of griefing but it would make Eul's VERY good for its cost.
Someone else mentioned buffing Lina. Definitely wouldn't mind that, she just cannot compete with other supports and giving her an Aghs upgrade just doesn't really do enough. Maybe change her passive somehow? Or else buff her stats? I dunno.
On September 22 2014 19:06 Firebolt145 wrote: Euls on allies would be too strong, too easy to save teammates with.
I seem to remember them actually disabling Eul's on allies after TI2. Thought then that it was because of griefing but it would make Eul's VERY good for its cost.
Someone else mentioned buffing Lina. Definitely wouldn't mind that, she just cannot compete with other supports and giving her an Aghs upgrade just doesn't really do enough. Maybe change her passive somehow? Or else buff her stats? I dunno.
What?! She can compete with other supports! She's in a decent spot right now... not that I would object to buffs, but she's not that weak a pick atm.
Also, no Euls on allies, that would lead to some of the most boring engagements of all time. All lock down and stuns could be canceled out by with euls. Plus it would let blink dagger come off the 3 second cool down, making it even hard to lock down blink dagger carrys.(aka, tinker).
Okay, here we go: Void: Personally I think the only change to his ult should be a bit more cooldown, also let euls be put on allies, and let force staff be used in chrono. Forcestaff: Be used in chrono, have some mana regen worked into it (sages mask), bit less cd maybe? (2-5 sec?) or increase the distance traveled Tinker: March shouldnt be used on ancients, it can still work on regular jungle camps, but it sholdnt work on ancients. Blink: Needs a bit of a nerf, but NOT an increase in price. Buying blink on earthshaker is annoying enough :/ Also, I don't think there should be a 5-7 sec deactivation from dmg, for fear of screwing over puck. A larger base CD would be fine. ARDM: I'm sorry, but I can't stand this mode right now. And i like ability draft.... It just needs to reset my items or something.... because playing it is terrible if you get es or soemthing into a pa for example. Slardar: Sprint needs something else besides extra speed. Maybe an armour bonus, or an attack speed bonus... I just dont see why I would pick him over Cent or something. His ult also needs inc cast range, b/c track wins over amp every day of the week. Nightstalker: Needs some love. Not completely sure how to fix this, maybe some extra base stats? Lina: Almost completely fine, just needs more range on LSA Shadow Shaman: This guy is fucking ridiculous. Reduce ward count and lower their hp. QoP: Needs a bit of help, has no effect it seems late game, no clue how to fix. Spirit Breaker: No clue what to do about him, but hes kindof between a carry and a farming support thing :/
Add legion, es, and birdy to CM (Fuck you terror/brood) Heroes that are fine (Imo): Razor, Viper, Ursa, Enig, etc
I just tried to get as many suggestions into one post as possible. All of these are my opinion etc etc.
People have to also account that the metagame and how the game is played plays a huge role in what heroes we see as "balanced" and others that are "OP".
The lack of BKB carries, and the now easy lane N°2 (aka offlane) make for a lot of heroes to actually be played and the game to develop in other forms, a slight nerf to "pubtrains" and a buff to laning phase/farming could change 20 heroes from the pool in a week.
IF nothing changes tho, i want Void,DP,Razor,Viper,Tinker,Doom,rhasta,SWM to get SLIGHT nerfs so they're not obnoxious, but definetly still playable, i dont want nerfhammers.
New item to counter the deathball meta - the Defresher Cube. Puts all of the target's skills and items on cooldown. 400 mana cost, 180 second cooldown.
On September 23 2014 02:07 Uranium wrote: New item to counter the deathball meta - the Defresher Cube. Puts all of the target's skills and items on cooldown. 400 mana cost, 180 second cooldown
Tinker: put a cd on rearm (only way to stop the OP lvls of burst) Void: make the chronosphere smaller (fewer ppl to catch, have to place it better, easier to attack void while inside) Lycan: nerf howl, buff wolves, turn him into a jungler again Razor: make ulti stop during aegis, nerf passive slow Viper: I don't think he is broken, still bad late game DP: idk totally broken, at least nerf silence Sky: nerf dmg, nerf silence to be in line with orchid Brew: make split time shorter
As for nerfing push I think they should buff towers from T2 on so that they are harder to kill and easier to hold (some balance of more hp/armor and more dmg)
Medusa Change Mystic Snake to a passive manasteal on all splitshot targets when they are not in stone form or magic immune. Manasteal is a unique attack modifier.
My trenchguts say it makes her an early teamfighter. It synergizes better with her low manapool, splitshot and the manadrain of the manashield. Scales well, but changes her to a midgame hero, a nice initiator with blink or shadow blade.
On September 23 2014 06:06 Steveling wrote: I had stopped playing wc3 doto by the time oracle was released, so how is he?
Same here, but I read up about him. He has a powerful nuke/purge, he has a magic invuln spell that is also a free soul catcher, he has a 360 damage nuke/heal on a 3 second cd for 100 mana, and invisibility that isn't broken by attacking that delays damage and can be cast on any ally that lasts up to 9 seconds.
dimensional anchor: Prevents blinks, the and other types of dimensional movement in a 1500 radius. Toggle able. Cost : wand + void stone + recipe 225 gold +5 all stats, +75% mana regen.
Solves blink being bought by everyone. Solves what to do with a wand latter on.
Alternative version: Targets blinking into a 600 radius are stunned for 1s. 5s CD
On September 23 2014 06:40 Jotoco wrote: New Item:
dimensional anchor: Prevents blinks, the and other types of dimensional movement in a 1500 radius. Toggle able. Cost : wand + void stone + recipe 225 gold +5 all stats, +75% mana regen.
Solves blink being bought by everyone. Solves what to do with a wand latter on.
Alternative version: Targets blinking into a 600 radius are stunned for 1s. 5s CD
Uhh...that is way OP. Maybe if it did something like stop blinks for 5 seconds and costed like 600 mana or some shit..
On September 23 2014 06:40 Jotoco wrote: New Item:
dimensional anchor: Prevents blinks, the and other types of dimensional movement in a 1500 radius. Toggle able. Cost : wand + void stone + recipe 225 gold +5 all stats, +75% mana regen.
Solves blink being bought by everyone. Solves what to do with a wand latter on.
Alternative version: Targets blinking into a 600 radius are stunned for 1s. 5s CD
Uhh...that is way OP. Maybe if it did something like stop blinks for 5 seconds and costed like 600 mana or some shit..
Yeah, probably.
Initially it was meant to affect both teams, but the amount of grief it would cause....
Lina - said a millions times in this thread already, LSA badly needs a range buff. I think a CD reduction on Slave to match LSA CD would also be very good beneficial.
QoP - reduce Scream CD by 1s to match max Blink CD, reduce ult CD and/or mana cost (ridiculously high CD and mana for how little damage it does)
Ogre Magi - personally I think they should rework Bloodlust so it buffs AS/MS much higher but for a much shorter duration on a much longer CD to make it more of a tactical buff, rather than a boring "just cast it on everybody before a fight spell," which makes it very similar to an aura that costs mana
Slardar - I like the idea of attaching AS to Sprint, making it a poor man's MoM. I also think his ult also badly needs a range increase as has been mentioned numerous times already
Void - there's a lot of bugs right now increasing Void's effectiveness (timewalk speed, castpoint for chrono). Fix those and increase CD on chrono would be enough I think
WR - I think they should rework her ult where it allows WR to exceed the AS cap, and balance the flat AS buff it gives around that, allow it to switch targets and keep the AS buff, and dramatically shorten the duration
I thought problem with Chrono was that it's meant to spread out from the centre over 0.1 seconds not that the whole cast point is 0.1 seconds too fast (subtle difference).
Please do something to fix Treant for the love of god, this hero deserves so much better.
1) Reduce leech seed mana cost to something reasonable. 100? 2) Reduce living armor cooldown for 24/20/18/14? Might be too low but 32/26 is just too damn high
I think his ult and guise are fine personally, much more dire things to work on before those get looked at.
the blink change single handedly brought dozens of heroes to viability. Adding a mana cost to it will kill those heroes and indirectly nerf a lot of heroes who are in a good spot.
shaker, sand king, wraith king, brewmaster, pretty much any str init depends on the free blink to be useful. 50 mana blink and a hero like brewmaster would probably drop to unplayed because how mana hungry he is
If u want to change blink, up the cost i think is the only justifiable way now. i think the blink change opened up a ton of options and should not be reverted
On September 23 2014 07:59 beesinyoface wrote: Please do something to fix Treant for the love of god, this hero deserves so much better.
1) Reduce leech seed mana cost to something reasonable. 100? 2) Reduce living armor cooldown for 24/20/18/14? Might be too low but 32/26 is just too damn high
I think his ult and guise are fine personally, much more dire things to work on before those get looked at.
treant is a great hero who happens to suck against death ball lineups. i think he's more than good enough if the meta just shifts
Significantly more expensive, flying vision wards. Apply whatever necessary fix so you don't give people godly vision over the rosh pit (I'd imagine radiant would LOVE to ward dire secret shop and get vision of rosh pit in the process, among other abuses) but otherwise it'd provide options against tinker and any hide-in-the-trees blink initiators.
Because the problem is being able to see them. if you can see them, you've got options. But since there are forests everywhere, it's hard to know where they're coming from until it is too late.
Why are people calling for blink nerfs? Its a great item that promotes active games and ganks, while having utility for split push shenanigans. a good third of the hero pool depend on this item and the timings associated with it.
the change to passive gold means you gotta buy something. blink or force is generally the best thing to buy. I don't see how this is a bad thing because of how much more strategic blink makes things.
Someone remind me of why blink is a problem? The only big thing that comes to mind is that it makes panda and centaur viable and prophet more obnoxious. Otherwise it was and continues to be a great pickup on supports and cores generally speaking. Is the fact that even underleveled and underfarmed supports can use it liberally without too much worry about mana the issue for you guys?
Well, derp posted before seing the guy above . So, yeah, adding to his question.
I think it's generally that tide / centaur / brew / doom / treant / etc can get blink as a first item with no mana concerns whatsoever. They come online faster and pick up the pace of the game quite a bit. It's debatable whether or not that's a bad thing, but I think like people have mentioned general consensus is that the opposite pace of what we have would be better.
the blink change single handedly brought dozens of heroes to viability. Adding a mana cost to it will kill those heroes and indirectly nerf a lot of heroes who are in a good spot.
shaker, sand king, wraith king, brewmaster, pretty much any str init depends on the free blink to be useful. 50 mana blink and a hero like brewmaster would probably drop to unplayed because how mana hungry he is
If u want to change blink, up the cost i think is the only justifiable way now. i think the blink change opened up a ton of options and should not be reverted
Yes no question it has opened up the pool, but I think the pendulum had swung too far to completely remove the mana cost. The rate of Blink Daggers bought from pre to post buff is ~3x as much, and nobody was complaining about the rate of Blink daggers pre-buff either.
It just feels pretty ass-backwards to have such a high mobility item have a free active, there should be some cost associated with it, even if it's only 25 mana. I think increasing its gold cost would be a much more significant change and would probably hurt those same heroes who are highly reliant on Blink.
The discussion started as people complaining Blink's viability has marginalized Force Staff and Shadowblade. I've already said I don't want to see Shadowblade get buffed as invis heroes are taxing enough at the current state of the game. Force Staff, however, is probably underpurchased as-is because people default to blink when many, including supports, should be getting Force instead in many games.
The other perceived problem with Blink is that in the current blink-heavy meta, heroes like AM and QoP have been less sexy. I can see this argument but am not convinced by it, especially in AM's case where other factors in the meta are far more to blame for why he is not desirable.
the blink change single handedly brought dozens of heroes to viability. Adding a mana cost to it will kill those heroes and indirectly nerf a lot of heroes who are in a good spot.
shaker, sand king, wraith king, brewmaster, pretty much any str init depends on the free blink to be useful. 50 mana blink and a hero like brewmaster would probably drop to unplayed because how mana hungry he is
If u want to change blink, up the cost i think is the only justifiable way now. i think the blink change opened up a ton of options and should not be reverted
Yes no question it has opened up the pool, but I think the pendulum had swung too far to completely remove the mana cost. The rate of Blink Daggers bought from pre to post buff is ~3x as much, and nobody was complaining about the rate of Blink daggers pre-buff either.
It just feels pretty ass-backwards to have such a high mobility item have a free active, there should be some cost associated with it, even if it's only 25 mana. I think increasing its gold cost would be a much more significant change and would probably hurt those same heroes who are highly reliant on Blink.
The cost is an item slot that gives you zero stats (and 2150g, obviously). It's not "no-cost." Even as a support, having blink which is SUPER useful, comes at the cost of having problems carrying other support items. Gets especially painful in invis games.
Nerfing blink dagger will probably come in the form of creating more item counters to it (e.g. 6.81 +50 damage to Euls). I would not be surprised if Atos gained the damage as well; Orchid might gain a very small damage when you first use the active; and Force Staff might be buffed to make it a more attractive option as well.
Shadow Blade might get buffed too, that item took the nerf stick pretty hard
On September 23 2014 08:25 FHDH wrote: The discussion started as people complaining Blink's viability has marginalized Force Staff and Shadowblade. I've already said I don't want to see Shadowblade get buffed as invis heroes are taxing enough at the current state of the game. Force Staff, however, is probably underpurchased as-is because people default to blink when many, including supports, should be getting Force instead in many games.
The other perceived problem with Blink is that in the current blink-heavy meta, heroes like AM and QoP have been less sexy. I can see this argument but am not convinced by it, especially in AM's case where other factors in the meta are far more to blame for why he is not desirable.
Are invis heroes really that problematic? I almost never see invis heroes picked up in pro games, except Invoker and on the rare occasion Tree, and neither of them are chosen primarily for their stealth. The bigger issue might be smoke ganks but I feel like shadow blade serves a different purpose.
I like how blink opens up options for so many heroes, but it does seem really good when you consider that like, AM needs an item that's twice as expensive to even begin fulfilling his role on the team. Maybe a cost nerf to blink and a cost buff to force to make it more viable for supports?
the blink change single handedly brought dozens of heroes to viability. Adding a mana cost to it will kill those heroes and indirectly nerf a lot of heroes who are in a good spot.
shaker, sand king, wraith king, brewmaster, pretty much any str init depends on the free blink to be useful. 50 mana blink and a hero like brewmaster would probably drop to unplayed because how mana hungry he is
If u want to change blink, up the cost i think is the only justifiable way now. i think the blink change opened up a ton of options and should not be reverted
Yes no question it has opened up the pool, but I think the pendulum had swung too far to completely remove the mana cost. The rate of Blink Daggers bought from pre to post buff is ~3x as much, and nobody was complaining about the rate of Blink daggers pre-buff either.
It just feels pretty ass-backwards to have such a high mobility item have a free active, there should be some cost associated with it, even if it's only 25 mana. I think increasing its gold cost would be a much more significant change and would probably hurt those same heroes who are highly reliant on Blink.
The cost is an item slot that gives you zero stats (and 2150g, obviously). It's not "no-cost." Even as a support, having blink which is SUPER useful, comes at the cost of having problems carrying other support items. Gets especially painful in invis games.
I'm obviously talking about from a gameplay/game design perspective. For example if you removed the mana cost from AM/QoP, they would use it every cooldown just to walk around. Attaching a mana cost, even if a marginal 25 mana (which Force Staff has), to it makes it so there is actually a pro/con decision you have to make instead of herp derp blink everywhere.
On September 23 2014 08:36 govie wrote: I dont buy blink because its usefull, i buy blink because the hero sucks (=unplayable) without it.
The only one I can think of that that applies to is sand king.
(e) and huh, hadn't thought of blink's no mana cost as a noncombat movement speed item before. I mean, it's effectively around 90 movespeed if spammed off cooldown to jump around, nevermind the "nonpathing" it gives via being able to hop over cliffs.
I also really like this idea for an aghs upgrade to alch
Carry Alchemist has very bad stat growth, but he still doesn't have ASU (aghanim scepter upgrade) and I got an idea how to improve this hero's lategame potential. Aghanim Scepter Upgrade for Alchemist: Whenever Alchemist purchases Aghanim Scepter and picks it up, the item is CONSUMED and disappears from his inventory - he transmutes the item's benefits into his own stats. Stacks infinitely. You can repeat this process (buy multiple Aghanim Scepters and each will be consumed permanently increasing your stats). Basically, whenever you are 6-slotted, but are still swimming in gold, you can purchase an Aghanim Scepter which does nothing for you except for "eating" the item and permanently adding: +10 Strength +10 Agility +10 Intelligence +200 HP +150 Mana on top of whatever you have already, without using an item slot (but consuming the Aghanim scepter completely and forging it within Alchemist). You can "stack it" infinitely, which means you can purchase and transmute multiple Aghanim Scepters should you swim in that much gold late game. It wouldn't be OP because we already have Pudge, legion commander, Silencer who are scaling almost infinitely. And here we are with Alchemist who needs to buy (otherwise useless) aghanim scepter to upgrade permanently his mediocre stats. It is a way to effectively use his gold income in lategame once he has everything else he needs. He would be able to buy multiple but let's face it, you can buy a lot more useful items for your alchemist until you are 6-slotted, and only then will this ASU make sense to purchase. So this would only improve his ultra lategame potential as a carry who has such a great gold gain. Why do i make this suggestion? people say Alchemist cant be hard carry because he falls off lategame, he doesnt have great stat gain but he does have gold gain of a real flashfarmer thanks to the greevils greed and come lategame, he could as well just buy sentries for his team or whatever with that amazing gold income. Instead, let him improve his stats a bit by buying that costly Aghanim scepter (more than once if he wants). This also fits into his lore in my opinion because he is a freakin Alchemist who wants to transmute things into gold, goddamnit. Why wouldnt he be able to improve his Ogre using expensive ingredients? This would make Alchemist scale into the ultra lategame a bit better, let's say in those matches where heroes are way over 25000gold networth, alchemist can stack the stats from ASU to increase his survivability a bit. please tell me what do you think about this suggestion!
To me, the problem with blink is that all of the fringe heroes who used to situationally consider it now just beeline it after brown boots.
I would like to see a change that pushes it back to situational except on heroes who need to initiate at long range into teams. Heroes who benefit from mobility but don't absolutely need it should prefer the utility and +int of force, and carries who want to jump single targets for solokills should prefer shadowblade. At the moment, literally everyone just goes hurrdurr blink and it's kind of boring.
The challenge to me is that (with the possible exception of brewmaster), most of the "proper" blink heroes don't need any nerfs. It would be a real shame to send es/sk/magnus etc back to oblivion by returning a manacost, or cripple puck by increasing the break time.
The other thing is that heroes with natural mobility are seriously undervalued when there's 3-4 heroes on every team that have dagger by 15 minutes. It's just kind of silly to have a whole team follow an antimage into the trees, especially when half of them had bought blink before he could even max his own.
Carry Alchemist has very bad stat growth, but he still doesn't have ASU (aghanim scepter upgrade) and I got an idea how to improve this hero's lategame potential. Aghanim Scepter Upgrade for Alchemist: Whenever Alchemist purchases Aghanim Scepter and picks it up, the item is CONSUMED and disappears from his inventory - he transmutes the item's benefits into his own stats. Stacks infinitely. You can repeat this process (buy multiple Aghanim Scepters and each will be consumed permanently increasing your stats). Basically, whenever you are 6-slotted, but are still swimming in gold, you can purchase an Aghanim Scepter which does nothing for you except for "eating" the item and permanently adding: +10 Strength +10 Agility +10 Intelligence +200 HP +150 Mana on top of whatever you have already, without using an item slot (but consuming the Aghanim scepter completely and forging it within Alchemist). You can "stack it" infinitely, which means you can purchase and transmute multiple Aghanim Scepters should you swim in that much gold late game. It wouldn't be OP because we already have Pudge, legion commander, Silencer who are scaling almost infinitely. And here we are with Alchemist who needs to buy (otherwise useless) aghanim scepter to upgrade permanently his mediocre stats. It is a way to effectively use his gold income in lategame once he has everything else he needs. He would be able to buy multiple but let's face it, you can buy a lot more useful items for your alchemist until you are 6-slotted, and only then will this ASU make sense to purchase. So this would only improve his ultra lategame potential as a carry who has such a great gold gain. Why do i make this suggestion? people say Alchemist cant be hard carry because he falls off lategame, he doesnt have great stat gain but he does have gold gain of a real flashfarmer thanks to the greevils greed and come lategame, he could as well just buy sentries for his team or whatever with that amazing gold income. Instead, let him improve his stats a bit by buying that costly Aghanim scepter (more than once if he wants). This also fits into his lore in my opinion because he is a freakin Alchemist who wants to transmute things into gold, goddamnit. Why wouldnt he be able to improve his Ogre using expensive ingredients? This would make Alchemist scale into the ultra lategame a bit better, let's say in those matches where heroes are way over 25000gold networth, alchemist can stack the stats from ASU to increase his survivability a bit. please tell me what do you think about this suggestion!
On September 23 2014 08:58 FHDH wrote: From a gameplay/design standpoint, the opportunity cost of an occupied slot is a cost.
And what does that have to do with how the item functions after you buy it? Right now you use it every CD just to get around. Why not remove the mana cost off Force Staff, or Shadowblade so they too can be used as mobility items along with their other purposes? Like I said, from a game design perspective it doesn't make sense.
What you do is you balance the item first since it is something every hero can buy, and then go back and balance each individual hero within that framework. Blink having brought some more heroes into the meta is not an excuse for bad game design.
On September 23 2014 08:25 FHDH wrote: The discussion started as people complaining Blink's viability has marginalized Force Staff and Shadowblade. I've already said I don't want to see Shadowblade get buffed as invis heroes are taxing enough at the current state of the game. Force Staff, however, is probably underpurchased as-is because people default to blink when many, including supports, should be getting Force instead in many games.
The other perceived problem with Blink is that in the current blink-heavy meta, heroes like AM and QoP have been less sexy. I can see this argument but am not convinced by it, especially in AM's case where other factors in the meta are far more to blame for why he is not desirable.
Force Staff is still a staple of pro play. I doubt its pickup rate fell significantly, but I could be wrong (I'd like to see numbers on that). Shadowblade fell off, but that was more on its nerfs than the blink buff.
AM really fell off, but that's a lot on the teamfight meta. QoP, yeah, I can agree with that, but being a ranged hero with a blink naturally makes her difficult to balance imo.
On September 23 2014 08:09 ahw wrote: Why are people calling for blink nerfs? Its a great item that promotes active games and ganks, while having utility for split push shenanigans. a good third of the hero pool depend on this item and the timings associated with it.
the change to passive gold means you gotta buy something. blink or force is generally the best thing to buy. I don't see how this is a bad thing because of how much more strategic blink makes things.
Blink is a viable and useful item on Storm Spirit. A hero who's defining ability is his mobility and he is made better by blink(clearly situational). It is so good it is viable on nearly every hero in the game. I am all about it being a good item, but it wouldn't be horrible if it wasn't a good pick up for almost every hero.
And if people want a limited hero pool, nerfing passive gold would be the best way to make a bunch of heroes less viable.
Sometimes I see what I want to see and I want to see a Monkey King. Hopefully the patch will be good. The rosh makes me think there might be some map changes after all.
Sometimes I see what I want to see and I want to see a Monkey King. Hopefully the patch will be good. The rosh makes me think there might be some map changes after all.
Patch will be Live on weekend. As with all Major patches in the Last years ( except techies), i was unable to play when it was releases for some reasons. I am om vacation this weekend, so 100% patch confirmed!
the blink change single handedly brought dozens of heroes to viability. Adding a mana cost to it will kill those heroes and indirectly nerf a lot of heroes who are in a good spot.
shaker, sand king, wraith king, brewmaster, pretty much any str init depends on the free blink to be useful. 50 mana blink and a hero like brewmaster would probably drop to unplayed because how mana hungry he is
If u want to change blink, up the cost i think is the only justifiable way now. i think the blink change opened up a ton of options and should not be reverted
IF blink does not change, we will forever be stuck in this retarded push to deathball meta. You push hard, which gives your supports blinks, because you are ahead and your supps have blinks the enemy cant farm safely anywhere, you starve them til you win. That is SO BORING. Whoever gets towers down earlier wins, in most cases. Even worse, because everything revolves around the towers now, there are never any goddamn fights, everybody just trades towers til somebody wins. Most boring meta of all time.
the blink change single handedly brought dozens of heroes to viability. Adding a mana cost to it will kill those heroes and indirectly nerf a lot of heroes who are in a good spot.
shaker, sand king, wraith king, brewmaster, pretty much any str init depends on the free blink to be useful. 50 mana blink and a hero like brewmaster would probably drop to unplayed because how mana hungry he is
If u want to change blink, up the cost i think is the only justifiable way now. i think the blink change opened up a ton of options and should not be reverted
IF blink does not change, we will forever be stuck in this retarded push to deathball meta. You push hard, which gives your supports blinks, because you are ahead and your supps have blinks the enemy cant farm safely anywhere, you starve them til you win. That is SO BORING. Whoever gets towers down earlier wins, in most cases. Even worse, because everything revolves around the towers now, there are never any goddamn fights, everybody just trades towers til somebody wins. Most boring meta of all time.
Sure, this sounds like an accurate description of Dota right now (no)
the blink change single handedly brought dozens of heroes to viability. Adding a mana cost to it will kill those heroes and indirectly nerf a lot of heroes who are in a good spot.
shaker, sand king, wraith king, brewmaster, pretty much any str init depends on the free blink to be useful. 50 mana blink and a hero like brewmaster would probably drop to unplayed because how mana hungry he is
If u want to change blink, up the cost i think is the only justifiable way now. i think the blink change opened up a ton of options and should not be reverted
IF blink does not change, we will forever be stuck in this retarded push to deathball meta. You push hard, which gives your supports blinks, because you are ahead and your supps have blinks the enemy cant farm safely anywhere, you starve them til you win. That is SO BORING. Whoever gets towers down earlier wins, in most cases. Even worse, because everything revolves around the towers now, there are never any goddamn fights, everybody just trades towers til somebody wins. Most boring meta of all time.
Are we watching the same games? Even most Chinese games as of late have had at least a kill a minute.
the blink change single handedly brought dozens of heroes to viability. Adding a mana cost to it will kill those heroes and indirectly nerf a lot of heroes who are in a good spot.
shaker, sand king, wraith king, brewmaster, pretty much any str init depends on the free blink to be useful. 50 mana blink and a hero like brewmaster would probably drop to unplayed because how mana hungry he is
If u want to change blink, up the cost i think is the only justifiable way now. i think the blink change opened up a ton of options and should not be reverted
IF blink does not change, we will forever be stuck in this retarded push to deathball meta. You push hard, which gives your supports blinks, because you are ahead and your supps have blinks the enemy cant farm safely anywhere, you starve them til you win. That is SO BORING. Whoever gets towers down earlier wins, in most cases. Even worse, because everything revolves around the towers now, there are never any goddamn fights, everybody just trades towers til somebody wins. Most boring meta of all time.
we have the most kills of all times at the moment, lol. people really need to open their eyes.
edit: three posts saying the same in 1 minute. glorious :D
Seriously tough, I'd love to see undying get a buff, preferably lower mana cost on his Q, or mabye some slow/ stun/escape buff somehow, or a way he doesn't fall off lategame as fast
- Roshan pit will be revamped. - Tinker , void, SWM, rhasta , DP & Razor will be slightly nerfed so pro players will at least try one another hero in their games. - BS will be buffed slightly(gained movespeed increased lol) but we can still tp out from his buffs. - PL agility gain increased to 5.5(lol) but still dies to 1 nuke in early game. - A few aghs upgrades for other support heroes so that the wards will be seen even more rare because "I am rushing aghs you n00b." - Some unpredictable hero will get a gigantic gimmicky revamp so low trench will die in vain, but will no effect on competitive play. - Versatile heroes will be viable even more and pro players will find their next 5-6 guaranteed picks and the game will be stagnant again until new patch.
On September 23 2014 11:06 synapse wrote: ahhh i get it, rekindling soul = new SF model finally
SF model probably included, but from the "rekindling" I'd say it's more a reference to SF Arcana (which is fire themed).
That's really uninspired to produce a fire model as SF is based on firelord (only had a few niche strats with him in Orc vs Orc mu iirc, having forged spirits with eidolons reproduction mechanic): + Show Spoiler +
On September 23 2014 11:06 synapse wrote: ahhh i get it, rekindling soul = new SF model finally
SF model probably included, but from the "rekindling" I'd say it's more a reference to SF Arcana (which is fire themed).
That's really uninspired to produce a fire model as SF is based on firelord (only had a few niche strats with him in Orc vs Orc mu iirc, having forged spirits with eidolons reproduction mechanic): + Show Spoiler +
god i miss the old sf model everything from the way it walks to its attack and raze animations was awesome. even the projectile looked like it would actually hurt, instead of this ugly red ball he chucks now
On September 23 2014 18:38 govie wrote: Undying needs a ministun on the initial soul rip target i think, maybe combined with more str gain he could be a good 4.
I feel like his major problem is that with passive gold and fast T1s down, tombstone has a much smaller timing window than before.
his major problem is there arent enough tri vs tri anymore. by the time fights start happening one side either has a deathball or undyings tombstone is too weak and gets brought down in like 1 second
maybe give undying back his old ulti?! called decay if anyone remembers that hero is so bad and totally irrelevant after 5min and has the worst scepter upg by far
also about tinker.... in wc3 dota tinker is much weaker bcoz 1) march doesnt hit dragons/harpies (harpies maybe?!) 2) neutral creeps run away in opposite direction from march damage instead of into you. 3) eblade has a projectile so you cant dagon nuke anyone till the eblade projectile hits. 4) you cant bottle up after tping and still get bottle charges. 5) some places are still impossible to blink to bcoz "haven't explored area" even tho they shudve changed that in an early 6.7x patch
i would also like to see spectres old dispersion back 16% chance to not take dmg and reflect all of it for full damage in an area with a mini-stun
PL's biggest nerf was how lanes worked after 6.79 i would still like to see him get a BAT buff or MS buff
i want old couriers back with divine shield but drop items if they die.
antimage to have something added to spell shield like reducing cc time by 10/15/20/25 or 10/20/30/40 % bcoz getting forced to go bkb on that hero is dumb lifesteal from satanic to override mana break like it did in wc3
wisp getting back tether stun or atleast a mini stun
most interesting changes wud be item changes tho just like how diffu+vit booster = manta into yasha+orb = manta changed the whole meta of the game previously
Void - make the all other unit except Void inside the chronosphere moves slower, attack slower, cast slower ( items unaffected, that you can hex him utilizing a scythe of vyse, cyclone him, etc.). Leap not to be invulnerable ( if it's still invulnerable, and can't dodge some projectiles.) Backtrack for spells reduced by 1/4 the original value.
On September 23 2014 22:34 feedwhenever wrote: TL;DR some of comments
Void - make the all other unit except Void inside the chronosphere moves slower, attack slower, cast slower ( items unaffected, that you can hex him utilizing a scythe of vyse, cyclone him, etc.). Leap not to be invulnerable ( if it's still invulnerable, and can't dodge some projectiles.) Backtrack for spells reduced by 1/4 the original value.
He's not invincible during Time Walk. He's supposed to be, but he's not.
On September 23 2014 22:34 feedwhenever wrote: TL;DR some of comments
Void - make the all other unit except Void inside the chronosphere moves slower, attack slower, cast slower ( items unaffected, that you can hex him utilizing a scythe of vyse, cyclone him, etc.). Leap not to be invulnerable ( if it's still invulnerable, and can't dodge some projectiles.) Backtrack for spells reduced by 1/4 the original value.
this just makes him a fking potato hero pretty much all your chronosphere does is upheaval without the channeling
On September 23 2014 22:34 feedwhenever wrote: TL;DR some of comments
Void - make the all other unit except Void inside the chronosphere moves slower, attack slower, cast slower ( items unaffected, that you can hex him utilizing a scythe of vyse, cyclone him, etc.). Leap not to be invulnerable ( if it's still invulnerable, and can't dodge some projectiles.) Backtrack for spells reduced by 1/4 the original value.
this just makes him a fking potato hero pretty much all your chronosphere does is upheaval without the channeling
Well I think an unchanneled upheaval is now balanced than an unchanneled black hole.
Can we get pudge's old wc3 hook mechanism back?
Also for rosh, how bout we have 2 pits and he respawns randomly in one of them hahaha
On September 23 2014 21:20 ChunderBoy wrote: maybe give undying back his old ulti?! called decay if anyone remembers that hero is so bad and totally irrelevant after 5min and has the worst scepter upg by far
Isn't it essentially current Earth Spirit ult? It was the one that did damage over time and propagated if an infected enemy goes close to an unaffected enemy, right? Also, heals Undy if something died while under the effect of decay. That version of Undy was pretty boss though with summoning zombies to help you jungle in the early game.
On September 23 2014 22:34 feedwhenever wrote: TL;DR some of comments
Void - make the all other unit except Void inside the chronosphere moves slower, attack slower, cast slower ( items unaffected, that you can hex him utilizing a scythe of vyse, cyclone him, etc.). Leap not to be invulnerable ( if it's still invulnerable, and can't dodge some projectiles.) Backtrack for spells reduced by 1/4 the original value.
this just makes him a fking potato hero pretty much all your chronosphere does is upheaval without the channeling
I wouldn't mind if IF makes thehero a potato for a couple of months. Just had enough of him already.
This would really cut down on how lethal tinker can be with just a few items, while not limiting his full potential if he does get really really farmed. Would barely affect any other heroes ever.
- Laser miss chance lowered to xx%
This decreases tinker's laning prowess and 1v1 survivability. I don't know what % is appropriate. Probably like 70%.
Why not have Rosh respawn outside the map and have entrances, portals, spawn on each side? Also have "scrying pools" that could see inside the Rosh pit on each side.
Rosman pit could be bigger, have more features, etc.
Scrying pools would only activate if a hero or controlled unit was near it.
Don't know, means you could have symmetrical Rosh entrances and a more balanced map
Rosh pit has been like that for what, around 10 years now ?
Heroes of Newerth tried something new with it (way wider area, more ramps from radiant jungle). Not sure how it plays out though, I stopped playing HoN a bit before this particular change.
We probably know what the Rosh change will be already. The workshop tools have a file at /steam/steamapps/common/dota 2 beta/dota_ugc/content/dota_addons/dota_pvp/maps/dota_pvp_tiled_experiment.vmap, with a change to the Rosh pit that matches a "leaked" map change from 6.75.
On September 24 2014 01:08 Daralii wrote: We probably know what the Rosh change will be already. The workshop tools have a file at /steam/steamapps/common/dota 2 beta/dota_ugc/content/dota_addons/dota_pvp/maps/dota_pvp_tiled_experiment.vmap, with a change to the Rosh pit that matches a "leaked" map change from 6.75.
There are problems with that thing(like the shop and the minimap being busted), but it could likely be something like that. The rosh in the promo makes me think its likely coming. I'm happy about it if it comes, because fights over rosh are one part of the game that I miss in the current meta.
"Leaked" map doesn't have the dire advantage? I thought you can sneak into it from dire by blinks out of the ward range, and dire still has the river/vision advantage when roshing. Just harder to walk through river.
I think it is greatly reduced because of the increased walking distance from the ramp to the pit itself. They also don't have the high ground surrounding one side of the pit or two escape routes when leaving. Of course there will still be some advantage, but that isn't going to go away.
On September 24 2014 01:17 Plansix wrote: There are problems with that thing(like the shop and the minimap being busted), but it could likely be something like that. The rosh in the promo makes me think its likely coming. I'm happy about it if it comes, because fights over rosh are one part of the game that I miss in the current meta.
The busted things can easily be explained by debug/test shit. If this had to be loaded as a new map entirely, it's very possible that it was A) busted as shit and B) didn't have a minimap, so rendering bugs and stuff aren't enough to suggest it was faked... especially considering I doubt someone would go through the trouble of faking that screenshot and just not bother with the minimap or the rest of the map.
I don't like the look of it. The shop sorta makes sense because you can access the shop from the pit it's just not intuitive so another one of those things you just have to find out somehow. Just fucking putting one in there smooths the learning curve a bit. What it would sell though...? That's a different story. Having either shop that easily accessible would change game's mechanics in laning quite a bit I think.
As for the pit itself I'm not sure how much I like changing the dynamics of pit fights to that extent.
On September 24 2014 01:17 Plansix wrote: There are problems with that thing(like the shop and the minimap being busted), but it could likely be something like that. The rosh in the promo makes me think its likely coming. I'm happy about it if it comes, because fights over rosh are one part of the game that I miss in the current meta.
The busted things can easily be explained by debug/test shit. If this had to be loaded as a new map entirely, it's very possible that it was A) busted as shit and B) didn't have a minimap, so rendering bugs and stuff aren't enough to suggest it was faked... especially considering I doubt someone would go through the trouble of faking that screenshot and just not bother with the minimap or the rest of the map.
the screenshot and map are very real, they shipped with the big workshop tools update a while back.
honestly don't know why people keep saying it's fake
On September 24 2014 01:17 Plansix wrote: There are problems with that thing(like the shop and the minimap being busted), but it could likely be something like that. The rosh in the promo makes me think its likely coming. I'm happy about it if it comes, because fights over rosh are one part of the game that I miss in the current meta.
The busted things can easily be explained by debug/test shit. If this had to be loaded as a new map entirely, it's very possible that it was A) busted as shit and B) didn't have a minimap, so rendering bugs and stuff aren't enough to suggest it was faked... especially considering I doubt someone would go through the trouble of faking that screenshot and just not bother with the minimap or the rest of the map.
the screenshot and map are very real, they shipped with the big workshop tools update a while back.
honestly don't know why people keep saying it's fake
because its not been announced in any way (and i dont think alot of people called for it either?) and its been there for 10 years, as the post above you said
On September 24 2014 03:18 ahw wrote: I'd be surprised if that is the direction they go. the rosh pit has been in the same place for like 10 years
And there was a leaked version of a 6.75 beta that had the rosh pit there two years ago. If nothing Roshan's location has always been an issue that IF has tried to deal with but he has always gone other ways with it. This time he might be finally looking at it as this needs to go through.
On September 24 2014 01:17 Plansix wrote: There are problems with that thing(like the shop and the minimap being busted), but it could likely be something like that. The rosh in the promo makes me think its likely coming. I'm happy about it if it comes, because fights over rosh are one part of the game that I miss in the current meta.
The busted things can easily be explained by debug/test shit. If this had to be loaded as a new map entirely, it's very possible that it was A) busted as shit and B) didn't have a minimap, so rendering bugs and stuff aren't enough to suggest it was faked... especially considering I doubt someone would go through the trouble of faking that screenshot and just not bother with the minimap or the rest of the map.
the screenshot and map are very real, they shipped with the big workshop tools update a while back.
honestly don't know why people keep saying it's fake
because its not been announced in any way (and i dont think alot of people called for it either?) and its been there for 10 years, as the post above you said
it's literally in the game files if you download the workshop tools
On September 24 2014 01:17 Plansix wrote: There are problems with that thing(like the shop and the minimap being busted), but it could likely be something like that. The rosh in the promo makes me think its likely coming. I'm happy about it if it comes, because fights over rosh are one part of the game that I miss in the current meta.
The busted things can easily be explained by debug/test shit. If this had to be loaded as a new map entirely, it's very possible that it was A) busted as shit and B) didn't have a minimap, so rendering bugs and stuff aren't enough to suggest it was faked... especially considering I doubt someone would go through the trouble of faking that screenshot and just not bother with the minimap or the rest of the map.
the screenshot and map are very real, they shipped with the big workshop tools update a while back.
honestly don't know why people keep saying it's fake
because its not been announced in any way (and i dont think alot of people called for it either?) and its been there for 10 years, as the post above you said
it's literally in the game files if you download the workshop tools
I think this has been acknowledged repeatedly. It's not that it's a "fake" just not necessarily something that's happening.
Why does this need to happen, anyway? Aren't Dire/Radiant winrates fairly balanced in pro play right now, you just need to draft appropriately for your side? Or is that itself considered problematic?
On September 24 2014 01:17 Plansix wrote: There are problems with that thing(like the shop and the minimap being busted), but it could likely be something like that. The rosh in the promo makes me think its likely coming. I'm happy about it if it comes, because fights over rosh are one part of the game that I miss in the current meta.
The busted things can easily be explained by debug/test shit. If this had to be loaded as a new map entirely, it's very possible that it was A) busted as shit and B) didn't have a minimap, so rendering bugs and stuff aren't enough to suggest it was faked... especially considering I doubt someone would go through the trouble of faking that screenshot and just not bother with the minimap or the rest of the map.
the screenshot and map are very real, they shipped with the big workshop tools update a while back.
honestly don't know why people keep saying it's fake
because its not been announced in any way (and i dont think alot of people called for it either?) and its been there for 10 years, as the post above you said
it's literally in the game files if you download the workshop tools
I think this has been acknowledged repeatedly. It's not that it's a "fake" just not necessarily something that's happening.
Why does this need to happen, anyway? Aren't Dire/Radiant winrates fairly balanced in pro play right now, you just need to draft appropriately for your side? Or is that itself considered problematic?
Most of the stats I see show both sides being balanced. I think the main reason people want it changed is they want the dynamic of fighting over rosh back without returning to the old, fixed timer.(which had its own set of flaws, like teams AFK farming until the timer came up). I think it would be a good change, because I get the feeling a lot of Roshs are going to Dire.
On September 24 2014 04:06 SoylentGamer wrote: Okay. Add Winter Wyvern. Strong deathball counter. End of story.
WW's had her audio recorded since at least December. She's probably coming with Frostivus.
that makes a lot of sense. I'm really excited for her though. Her and Oracle. Heck, Abyssal Underlord team sized relocate sounds awesome too. 6.81 add rest of heroes.
Really hoping for a Rosh pit change. Would love the 6.75 idea of moving it to Dire Ancients, make it easier for Rad to scout and also engage without committing as heavily.
I say change Roshan so that when the first Ancient is destroyed the center of the map rises into a spiralling mountain the teams must climb and defeat roshan to claim ultimate victory
On September 24 2014 04:42 SoylentGamer wrote: Chrono doesn't go through BKB?
It does, it disables everyone
No, as a nerf to void. Make it not go through BKB
Honestly (edit: imo) that's not much of a double-edged sword considering he can be the initiator and his team can go into the Chrono with BKB's afterwards.
On September 24 2014 04:42 SoylentGamer wrote: Chrono doesn't go through BKB?
It does, it disables everyone
No, as a nerf to void. Make it not go through BKB
Honestly (edit: imo) that's not much of a double-edged sword considering he can be the initiator and his team can go into the Chrono with BKB's afterwards.
still, it would allow the enemy's melee carry or shortrange disabler to jump in with a bkb and do stuff (lasso comes to mind). would actually be a nice way to nerf chrono, but it might not be enough
On September 24 2014 04:42 SoylentGamer wrote: Chrono doesn't go through BKB?
It does, it disables everyone
No, as a nerf to void. Make it not go through BKB
Honestly (edit: imo) that's not much of a double-edged sword considering he can be the initiator and his team can go into the Chrono with BKB's afterwards.
True. then you could have CM Chrono combos. That would be broken.
On September 24 2014 04:42 SoylentGamer wrote: Chrono doesn't go through BKB?
It does, it disables everyone
No, as a nerf to void. Make it not go through BKB
Honestly (edit: imo) that's not much of a double-edged sword considering he can be the initiator and his team can go into the Chrono with BKB's afterwards.
still, it would allow the enemy's melee carry or shortrange disabler to jump in with a bkb and do stuff (lasso comes to mind). would actually be a nice way to nerf chrono, but it might not be enough
Visage would be great, both on void's team and against.
On September 24 2014 04:06 SoylentGamer wrote: Okay. Add Winter Wyvern. Strong deathball counter. End of story.
WW's had her audio recorded since at least December. She's probably coming with Frostivus.
that makes a lot of sense. I'm really excited for her though. Her and Oracle. Heck, Abyssal Underlord team sized relocate sounds awesome too. 6.81 add rest of heroes.
It seems like they were still debating Abyssal Underlord's design as late as TI4. There were several designs hanging on the wall in fall of 2013, then during TI4 there were two of those left. If they're that far behind on something that basic, I don't see him coming out until after TI5.
On September 24 2014 04:06 SoylentGamer wrote: Okay. Add Winter Wyvern. Strong deathball counter. End of story.
WW's had her audio recorded since at least December. She's probably coming with Frostivus.
that makes a lot of sense. I'm really excited for her though. Her and Oracle. Heck, Abyssal Underlord team sized relocate sounds awesome too. 6.81 add rest of heroes.
It seems like they were still debating Abyssal Underlord's design as late as TI4. There were several designs hanging on the wall in fall of 2013, then during TI4 there were two of those left. If they're that far behind on something that basic, I don't see him coming out until after TI5.
I'd expect something like Oracle -> Winter Wyvern -> Arc Warden -> Abyssal Underlord based on what we know currently.
I thought all the concept art for AU shown at TI4 was old? If there's no new concept art that means they've probably settled on a direction for him already.
I think Oracle and AU are the most likely to come out soon since they've had their abilities and very early alpha skill icons and base textures in the game for quite a while.
I know most people don't want everything on this list but if IceFraud actually obeyed this thread 6.82 would make void like this: 120 mana timeleap slower timeleap less range timeleap lower % backtrack no double-bash damage in chrono lower chrono duration higher chrono cooldown chrono doesn't go through BKB no speed in chrono no chrono aghs upgrade lower base armor lower base hp lower base damage
On September 24 2014 06:03 Sn0_Man wrote: I know most people don't want everything on this list but if IceFraud actually obeyed this thread 6.82 would make void like this: 120 mana timeleap slower timeleap less range timeleap lower % backtrack no double-bash damage in chrono lower chrono duration higher chrono cooldown chrono doesn't go through BKB no speed in chrono no chrono aghs upgrade lower base armor lower base hp lower base damage
lel what a great potato void would be.
Honestly this is why I stay out of balance discussions and why I am thankful that Icefrog doesn't bother with the community. So many dumb ideas crammed into one thread. Literally it's the shithole of the QQ thread combined with the balance whine of the SC2 community in an effort to make the dumbest changes possible on every hero that people can't be bothered to try and play against.
On September 24 2014 06:03 Sn0_Man wrote: I know most people don't want everything on this list but if IceFraud actually obeyed this thread 6.82 would make void like this: 120 mana timeleap slower timeleap less range timeleap lower % backtrack no double-bash damage in chrono lower chrono duration higher chrono cooldown chrono doesn't go through BKB no speed in chrono no chrono aghs upgrade lower base armor lower base hp lower base damage
lel what a great potato void would be.
Honestly this is why I stay out of balance discussions and why I am thankful that Icefrog doesn't bother with the community. So many dumb ideas crammed into one thread. Literally it's the shithole of the QQ thread combined with the balance whine of the SC2 community in an effort to make the dumbest changes possible on every hero that people can't be bothered to try and play against.
But we all know that the community knows best. I mean, look at SC2 and its super exciting map pool...
Yeah, I am pretty sure I will be happy with whatever changes Icefrog makes. I have never seen a Doto patch directly make the game worse or break it.
i disagree, most heroes are strong and viable in some ways.
Spirit breaker just isn't one. He's a ton like void (great base hp/armor/dmg, relies on a bash for late game, his ult interacts with BKB, has an initiating mobility tool) but his q is not better than time leap since u can't target anywhere and it has huge ass CD, his bash is worse than void's bash, his ms passive is worse than backtrack, and his ult GARGLES COCK compared to any normal ult, much less chrono aka the best ult in the game.
On September 24 2014 06:23 Sn0_Man wrote: i disagree, most heroes are strong and viable in some ways.
Spirit breaker just isn't one. He's a ton like void (great base hp/armor/dmg, relies on a bash for late game, his ult interacts with BKB, has an initiating mobility tool) but his q is not better than time leap since u can't target anywhere and it has huge ass CD, his bash is worse than void's bash, his ms passive is worse than backtrack, and his ult GARGLES COCK compared to any normal ult, much less chrono aka the best ult in the game.
so yeah.
If SB's bash didn't knock the heroes away from you all the damned time it might actually be functional. As it stands you end up knocking the hero back, then spending a second to move back up before you can even hit him again. It means that he feels like his attack is perpetually stuck in jello as he fights even if he does get attack speed items.
The BAT nerf was just a bit of overkill on the hero.
On September 26 2014 06:06 SoylentGamer wrote: Secretly, icefrog plans on re adding gambler, void demon, GOD, conjurer, and the old 27 spell Invoker.
Dota feels like it has been suffering from a form of power creep, so with some major adjustments, some of those old historical artifacts might be fit for play.
On September 26 2014 06:06 SoylentGamer wrote: Secretly, icefrog plans on re adding gambler, void demon, GOD, conjurer, and the old 27 spell Invoker.
Dota feels like it has been suffering from a form of power creep, so with some major adjustments, some of those old historical artifacts might be fit for play.
In dota though, power creep doesn't matter.
permasleep and removal from lane, 6 second stuns, massive 1 shot nukes, 27 overpowered spells? no, I don't think they will ever be re-added.
EPT![[image loading]](http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/thumb/e/ec/Tinker.png/80px-Tinker.png?version=26acbde174ba011acc92336b7ab33e14)
What do you want to see nerfed in this patch? ![[image loading]](http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/thumb/0/03/Faceless_Void.png/80px-Faceless_Void.png?version=e2f959a9ba67adf890e2f58e87d20ad2)
![[image loading]](http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/thumb/7/7f/Morphling.png/80px-Morphling.png?version=ea42fe07749ce88e44449186364d7e06)
What do you want to see buffed? 
![[image loading]](http://www.cyborgmatt.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Dota2_PhantomLancer.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140214113220/smashbroslawlorigins/images/a/a5/Firelord.png)
![[image loading]](http://dotawar.readmas.ru/wp-content/filessite/nevermore_shadow_fiend_post.jpg)
