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When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. |
On May 18 2013 02:49 Cyro wrote:
Like said you're not going to get 60fps min or average in later game, 3570k has like 25-30fps min in worst case 1v1 and mobile cpu's are a lot weaker, it really comes down to budget, what GPU you want and then the CPU you can buy with the rest of the money. You can still have like 200fps early game etc.
I thought the CPU was the limiting factor for sc2/DotA2/HoN? Why should I prioritize GPU then CPU?
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He means to spend as much as your budget allows for the CPU.
All the CPU options worth thinking about (everything Ivy Bridge) are the same for your purposes other than clock speed (and cache, but that's much less important). So that's any (non-low-voltage) i5-3xxxM or i7-3xxxM or i7-3xxxQM.
Get the highest clock speed (after Turbo Boost) you can afford, on a machine that's not artificially capping Turbo Boost. That should pretty much correspond to the highest model number.
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On May 18 2013 03:10 Myrmidon wrote:
He means to spend as much as your budget allows for the CPU.
All the CPU options worth thinking about (everything Ivy Bridge) are the same for your purposes other than clock speed (and cache, but that's much less important). So that's any (non-low-voltage) i5-3xxxM or i7-3xxxM or i7-3xxxQM.
Get the highest clock speed (after Turbo Boost) you can afford, on a machine that's not artificially capping Turbo Boost. That should pretty much correspond to the highest model number.
How do I know if something is capping the turbo boost or not?
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On May 18 2013 03:38 llIH wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 03:10 Myrmidon wrote:
He means to spend as much as your budget allows for the CPU.
All the CPU options worth thinking about (everything Ivy Bridge) are the same for your purposes other than clock speed (and cache, but that's much less important). So that's any (non-low-voltage) i5-3xxxM or i7-3xxxM or i7-3xxxQM.
Get the highest clock speed (after Turbo Boost) you can afford, on a machine that's not artificially capping Turbo Boost. That should pretty much correspond to the highest model number. How do I know if something is capping the turbo boost or not?
A programme like CoreTemp tells you your CPU speeds in real time. The problem with Turno Boost in laptops, is it tends to happen sporadically, as it can only occur when their is thermal headroom (TBing requires more voltage to be applied, and therefore, more heat is produced). Laptops generally have thermal cooling so TB isn't guaranteed (as it is in essentially all desktop setups).
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On May 18 2013 03:38 llIH wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 03:10 Myrmidon wrote:
He means to spend as much as your budget allows for the CPU.
All the CPU options worth thinking about (everything Ivy Bridge) are the same for your purposes other than clock speed (and cache, but that's much less important). So that's any (non-low-voltage) i5-3xxxM or i7-3xxxM or i7-3xxxQM.
Get the highest clock speed (after Turbo Boost) you can afford, on a machine that's not artificially capping Turbo Boost. That should pretty much correspond to the highest model number. How do I know if something is capping the turbo boost or not?
Read professional or user reviews that actually test the laptop.
Note that if there is throttling (even worse) during stress testing, that may not actually happen under a game, which usually presents a lower thermal load than some kind of worst-case scenario. But that's definitely something to keep in mind too.
But if there's some kind of policy implemented like no Turbo Boost when discrete graphics is in use, I think you can get around that usually with ThrottleStop, in which case you'd just be constrained by the cooling... which can be supplemented with laptop coolers / stands, if required.
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As usual for PC info I stop by the resource thread as someone who's not super tech savy but appreicates someone who is (or at least knows where to find those people).
Anyways. Here's a Craigslist ad: What's the word on this? How much do you guys think it's worth? As he's "taking offers" where I might be able to get it semi-cheap. What about in terms of running games? Dota2, SC2... as always, any help appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Biostar A780L3C AMD 760G/SB710 Motherboard - MicroATX, Socket AM3, AMD 760G/SB710, DDR3 1600 MHz (O.C.), USB 2.0, SATA II (3Gb/s), 6-CH Audio, LAN, PCIe 2.0
AMD ADX450WFGMBOX Athlon II X3 450 Triple Core Processor - 3.20GHz, Socket AM3, 1.5MB Cache, Retail w/ Fan
2x Kingston HyperX Red KHX16C9B1R/4 4GB Memory Module - 1600MHz, 9-9-9, DDR3, CL9, 1.65V, Unbuffered
Samsung SH-224BB/BEBE Internal 24X DVD Burner -Tray, SATA, 1.5MB Buffer Memory, 16x DVD-R Read, 48x CD-R Write (OEM)
Kingwin CFY-012LB Advanced Series 120mm Yellow LED Case Fan - Long Life Bearing, 950 RPM, 3 Pin /4 Pin Connector
EVGA GeForce GTX 650 01G-P4-2650-KR Video Card - 1GB GDDR5, PCI-Express 3.0(x16), 1x Dual-link DVI-I, 1x Dual-link DVI-D, 1x Mini-HDMI, DirectX 11, Dual-Slot
21 inch HP Flat screen Monitor
1tb HD
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
I wouldn't buy that for more than maybe 350 with monitor, athlon II x3 is just not very good
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On May 18 2013 02:43 llIH wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 02:42 skyR wrote:
Passmark is garbage, how did this piece of shit get so popular? I rather you use toms than this... I got it from soneone in this forum some months ago. Do you have a good one for me?
You don't need another source. This shit isn't that complicated. For SC2/moba games on a laptop, an ivy bridge core is an ivy bridge core is an ivy bridge core.
A faster ivy bridge core is better than a slower ivy bridge core. An ivy bridge core at the same speed as a sandy bridge core is a little better.
I mean seriously, what do you want here? It doesn't work for all applications (e.g. when # of cores matters), but for your purposes just look for i5-3xxx or i7-3xxx with a high Ghz rating. It's still laptop gaming, it's still going to be not as good as the better desktop setups, but this isn't rocket science. There's no super secret like there is with comparing AMD with Intel, where higher Ghz isn't necessarily telling the same tale.
Ivy Bridge Core. Highest Ghz you can find. For SC2 on a laptop, that's all you freaking need to know until new hardware comes out. Then replace "Ivy Bridge Core" with whatever the newer Intel option is, rinse and repeat.
Edit: Ok, Myrmidon had a fair point above. Better overall construction/implementation of a laptop has definite benefits over "hardware in a box," especially heat wise. But for CPUs, my point stands. And I should probably mention I've had a few today.
Edit2: Also, to clarify an above point. Yes, SC2 relies heavily on the CPU for things like unit targeting AI & pathfinding. Moba games not so much. I'm not as familiar with HoN, Dota2, but LoL could probably be run on a smartphone. Seriously, it's one of the least hardware-demanding games you'll ever find. One of the reasons it's so popular. I expect Dota2 & HoN are the same way. So you can worry a little less if you play moba more than SC2. On the other hand, if you mostly play SC2 4v4s, you'll need every ounce of performance you can coax out of the CPU.
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On May 18 2013 09:33 ryswilso wrote:
As usual for PC info I stop by the resource thread as someone who's not super tech savy but appreicates someone who is (or at least knows where to find those people).
Anyways. Here's a Craigslist ad: What's the word on this? How much do you guys think it's worth? As he's "taking offers" where I might be able to get it semi-cheap. What about in terms of running games? Dota2, SC2... as always, any help appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Biostar A780L3C AMD 760G/SB710 Motherboard - MicroATX, Socket AM3, AMD 760G/SB710, DDR3 1600 MHz (O.C.), USB 2.0, SATA II (3Gb/s), 6-CH Audio, LAN, PCIe 2.0
AMD ADX450WFGMBOX Athlon II X3 450 Triple Core Processor - 3.20GHz, Socket AM3, 1.5MB Cache, Retail w/ Fan
2x Kingston HyperX Red KHX16C9B1R/4 4GB Memory Module - 1600MHz, 9-9-9, DDR3, CL9, 1.65V, Unbuffered
Samsung SH-224BB/BEBE Internal 24X DVD Burner -Tray, SATA, 1.5MB Buffer Memory, 16x DVD-R Read, 48x CD-R Write (OEM)
Kingwin CFY-012LB Advanced Series 120mm Yellow LED Case Fan - Long Life Bearing, 950 RPM, 3 Pin /4 Pin Connector
EVGA GeForce GTX 650 01G-P4-2650-KR Video Card - 1GB GDDR5, PCI-Express 3.0(x16), 1x Dual-link DVI-I, 1x Dual-link DVI-D, 1x Mini-HDMI, DirectX 11, Dual-Slot
21 inch HP Flat screen Monitor
1tb HD
Without looking at price: it's bad for StarCraft (crappy CPU, though the game won't be unplayable). It'll be fine for Dota2 (moba games can basically be run on a computer drawn on a napkin). It's also an old CPU paired with a crappy graphics card. Given it has a monitor, presumably windows, and is used, I'd say $300ish is about right.
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Last time I forgot to thank all you wonderful people for fixing my computer plans. Now that I've ordered parts I thought it was time. Thanks so much, having good computers is the best. Everything thus far has worked seamlessly (though I was scared of breaking the CPU when I was latching it in.) Especially thanks to Ropid, Cyro, skyR, and Womwomwom from last time, all of you were really prompt and deliberate in your computer recommendations.
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Hey guys, my desktop just died again. I'm pretty sure the video cards are fried this time. While I could just try to plug and chug a new video card(s) in there, I've decided to take a stab at building my own computer. Unfortunately I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to shopping for stuff (I know how to actually put everything together), and I can't tell what is "quality" and what isn't really good quality. So I'm turning to you guys for help. I appreciate your guy's help, and I hope you guys can work with me.
What is your budget?
I'm looking at around $1,500 max, but I'd like to save as much money as possible. If I can bring the cost down to $800, that would be superb!
What is your resolution?
Honestly I don't really know since I haven't played SC in a while... I'm open to suggestions though. Sorry if this hinders a lot of your help, I'll try and come back with a sufficient answer in the near future.
What are you using it for?
I want to be able to run games like SC2, CS: GO, and Dota2 without any performance problems. When I play SC2, I play on the lowest settings possible. I do not care about playing on ultra, but would like things to still look nice and run smoothly. Furthermore, I'd like to be able to stream without any performance problems.
What is your upgrade cycle?
Most likely 2+ years. I don't plan on upgrading very often.
When are you planning to build it?
Over the next 3 months is ideal. If I can assemble a cheap but efficient rig for around ~$700-800 that can run SC2 and stream without any performance problems within the next month, I don't mind laying down all the money right now.
Do you plan on overclocking?
No.
Do you need an Operating System?
No
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
No, unless necessary
Where are you buying your parts from?
I'm in the U.S. (specifically Hawaii). I can don't mind buying online or from local stores.
Thanks!
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Hey guys, I need a new PC as the one I have is over 4 years old and can barely handle SC2. The monitor is probably around 10 years old. This money is just burning a hole in my pocket! Thanks
What is your budget?
I'd prefer to keep it under $800 total.
What is your resolution?
I'm not sure what I should use? I need a new monitor too. I'd like to get a decently large one as I watch a lot of shows and movies on my computer.
What are you using it for?
Gaming, mostly SC2. I will also probably pick up D3, Skyrim, and BF3 (possibly BF4) once I have a computer that is up to the task. I might stream a little, but gaming is definitely the priority.
What is your upgrade cycle?
Very infrequently, I've had my current rig for over 4 years.
When do you plan on building it?
Very soon, unless it would be worth it to wait a month or so.
Do you plan on overclocking?
No.
Do you need an Operating System?
No.
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
No.
Where are you buying your parts from?
I live in the USA (Daytona Beach, FL). I'd planned on buying on the Internet, but if its worth it I can pick stuff up locally. EDIT: No nearby Fry's or Microcenter.
A little info about stuff that can and can't be salvaged from my current PC:
-The PSU I have right now, don't know if it'll work: http://www.amazon.com/Sparkle-ATX-350PA-24pin-Power-Supply/dp/B005WT30M4
-I need a new case... this is the first computer I put together myself and I messed up one of the slots in the back that the video card comes out through and now the video card kind of wiggles around in there and messes up my screen and sometimes crashes... don't ask!
-I would like to get a SSD now, and get a back-up HD or two down the road (I have a full 1TB HD right now).
-I'll keep the CD drive I have on my current rig.
-I have 2x 1GB RAM on my current rig.
I'm liking the price and the specs of what 32 has going on here (though the total comes to $807.18 for me):
On May 16 2013 08:35 32 wrote:Updated Parts List 2 The 3570k is actually cheaper than the 3570, otherwise I made the changes suggested. + Show Spoiler +
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On May 18 2013 17:13 Jugan wrote:Hey guys, my desktop just died again. I'm pretty sure the video cards are fried this time. While I could just try to plug and chug a new video card(s) in there, I've decided to take a stab at building my own computer. Unfortunately I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to shopping for stuff (I know how to actually put everything together), and I can't tell what is "quality" and what isn't really good quality. So I'm turning to you guys for help. I appreciate your guy's help, and I hope you guys can work with me. + Show Spoiler +
What is your budget?
I'm looking at around $1,500 max, but I'd like to save as much money as possible. If I can bring the cost down to $800, that would be superb!
What is your resolution?
Honestly I don't really know since I haven't played SC in a while... I'm open to suggestions though. Sorry if this hinders a lot of your help, I'll try and come back with a sufficient answer in the near future.
What are you using it for?
I want to be able to run games like SC2, CS: GO, and Dota2 without any performance problems. When I play SC2, I play on the lowest settings possible. I do not care about playing on ultra, but would like things to still look nice and run smoothly. Furthermore, I'd like to be able to stream without any performance problems.
What is your upgrade cycle?
Most likely 2+ years. I don't plan on upgrading very often.
When are you planning to build it?
Over the next 3 months is ideal. If I can assemble a cheap but efficient rig for around ~$700-800 that can run SC2 and stream without any performance problems within the next month, I don't mind laying down all the money right now.
Do you plan on overclocking?
No.
Do you need an Operating System?
No
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
No, unless necessary
Where are you buying your parts from?
I'm in the U.S. (specifically Hawaii). I can don't mind buying online or from local stores.
Thanks!
You should tell us more about your old comp, from the top of my head, I'd bet you could keep Ram, HDD, Case and maybe PSU if it's good enough to be thrown in a freshly made comp. With that in mind, you should be able to get a decent rig for less than $800, and 1000-1200 would be plenty.
Most people play the game at the max resolution allowed by their screen so you should just take a look at it and tell us.
If you're planning to build it over the next three month, you should wait for Haswell, but we can help you anyway, as Intel will most probably keep the same policy (3series: non OCable, OCable, OCable+hyperthreading and enthusiast series).
If you're going for (cost)efficiency, you should really think about OCing your comp. A mild OC is 99.999% harmless, doable by anyone willing to spend a day or two at it, doesnt require any particular knowledge and can give you a great performance increase for ~70bucks extra.
Since we're going for Haswell, the build are kinda done in the dark but here we go:
1. No OC, cheapest option:
-Non OC last gen Intel chipset quality mobo with Haswell socket: ~$80
-Fastest Intel Haswell "i3": ~$150 //Same clockspeed as a non OCed i5, but only dual core. Games don't care about number of cores anyway (a friend of mine runs Sc2 no problem(by that I mean 99%equivalent to a non OCed i5) on a last gen Pentium). You will still notice a slight gap between i3 and i5 if you're going for some multitask though, and that's why I don't like not going for OC. [Edit: my bad, as said below, Haswell i3 are months away, so one more reason to not go for this build]
-AMD radeon hd7770: ~$120. //Not a powerful card at all, but maxes everything you listed no problem, no reason to go further imho. you could take a look at the old 68XX and 58XX as they can be found cheaper, and are more powerful, altough also noisier.
-PSU: Rosewill Capstone 450W: ~$60. //If you need one, this is the best deal on the market right now.
-Some cheap case you find good looking (eg Bitfenix): ~$40
-128gb SSD (CrucialM4, Intel520, Samsung 830 or 840pro): ~$110 //GET IT!
-No HSF needed.
This brings you to a low $600 maybe even cheaper if you manage to keep some parts from your old rig. I don't like the idea of not OCing tho. This is really an entry level comp, but you won't get anything much better for the games you listed unless you go for some OC.
2.OC:
-OC capable, latest Intel chipset, Haswell socket quality mobo with no fanciness: ~$130
-"The" Ocable Haswel "i5" cpu: ~$230 (-k suffix)
-HSF: Cooler master Hyper 212 (Don't remember which one is the best, +, evo, or basic), or any other basic quality HSF: ~$40
-AMD radeon hd7770: ~$120. //Not a powerful card at all, but maxes everything you listed no problem, no reason to go further imho. you could take a look at the old 68XX and 58XX as they can be found cheaper, and are more powerful, altough also noisier.
-PSU: Rosewill Capstone 450W: ~$60. //If you need one, this is the best deal on the market right now.
-Some cheap case you find good looking (eg Bitfenix): ~$40
-128gb SSD (CrucialM4, Intel520, Samsung 830 or 840pro): ~$110 //GET IT!
This brings you to a low $800, and I like it a lot more. Basically, it is "The" default build everyone will recommend you in here, if you don't mention anything special. Things that could be better: better Mobo and HSF for bigger OC headroom, GPU (but as I said, no reason to get a better one in your case.)
Note that I intently didn't list Ram and HDD as I considered you kept it form older rig, so my builds could look artificially cheaper than other ones. 8gb Ram should be about $35, 1Tb HDD is roughly $80.
Thank you.
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
Haswell i3's are many months away, it's i5/i7 that releases in a couple weeks, and a lot of games do benefit from more than 2 cores
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On May 18 2013 19:29 Cyro wrote:
Haswell i3's are many months away, it's i5/i7 that releases in a couple weeks, and a lot of games do benefit from more than 2 cores
Whoops, sorry. And as for the dual/quad core thing (read: i3/i5), I guess this means there are even fewer reason not to OC then.
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On May 18 2013 19:29 Cyro wrote:
Haswell i3's are many months away, it's i5/i7 that releases in a couple weeks, and a lot of games do benefit from more than 2 cores
I appreciate the input from Psuedo; what would you recommend Cyro? The games I'm mainly looking to play are card games that don't have much demand on the gpu, and SC2 and Dota2. The main thing I want to be able to do is stream as well. If I can build something that's reasonable and efficient now, i'd rather build it sooner than later. I'm completely clueless when shopping for parts, so would you recommend purchasing the other parts Psuedo has recommended? I'm particularly interested in your opinion on the PSU, HSF and the SSD he recommends.
Also, I guess I can overclock the new rig I'm planning to build, but I don't really understand the benefits if I'm not looking for extreme performance on Ultra. I'm just looking for smooth sailing & streaming on low-mid settings. Mostly low though.
I'm also worried about overheating the unit, especially if it becomes prudent (or necessary) to OC it.
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
2.OC:
-OC capable, latest Intel chipset, Haswell socket quality mobo with no fanciness: ~$130
-"The" Ocable Haswel "i5" cpu: ~$230 (-k suffix)
-HSF: Cooler master Hyper 212 (Don't remember which one is the best, +, evo, or basic), or any other basic quality HSF: ~$40
-AMD radeon hd7770: ~$120. //Not a powerful card at all, but maxes everything you listed no problem, no reason to go further imho. you could take a look at the old 68XX and 58XX as they can be found cheaper, and are more powerful, altough also noisier.
-PSU: Rosewill Capstone 450W: ~$60. //If you need one, this is the best deal on the market right now.
-Some cheap case you find good looking (eg Bitfenix): ~$40
-128gb SSD (CrucialM4, Intel520, Samsung 830 or 840pro): ~$110 //GET IT!
This brings you to a low $800, and I like it a lot more. Basically, it is "The" default build everyone will recommend you in here, if you don't mention anything special. Things that could be better: better Mobo and HSF for bigger OC headroom, GPU (but as I said, no reason to get a better one in your case.)
Pretty much everything there.
You should be able to get the GPU for less than $120. You can also get a corsair cx430 if you want to spend less on PSU (it's still decent quality)
I would reccomend stepping up to a HR-02 Macho if you want more than a light overclock, it's a lot more powerful and/or quiet, not as ideal to buy in the US but still affordable. Hyper212+ is only ~$20 though. SSD's, i would reccomend the three other than intel 520 if you asked me before (samsung 830, 840pro and crucial m4)
SC2 doesn't really care what graphics settings you have as long as you have a strong enough GPU for them, by lategame you have very little utilization on GPU (if you x8 a replay for example, GPU load instantly drops to like ~8% on max settings for me with a far weaker card)
It's just about unit counts, interactions and physics/effects/reflections if you have them enabled (disabling all 3 can almost double minimum framerate) so even on low settings, the game will perform pretty much the same as max settings, and you are stuck with relatively low minimums regardless, it's just easy to get like +40% on your FPS with a safe overclock on current CPU's
I'd personally say maybe gigabyte z77x-ud3h and hr-02 macho if you are overclocking (not sure if you can get away with z77-ud3), i5 3570k, 840pro>830>m4, corsair cx430 or rosewill capstone 450 depending on prices and if you want better quality PSU, 7770, etc. That's the core of system. You don't have to OC, but it's a great performance improvement, well worth doing and learning IMO (and you can always get help) and it's just awesome
I'm also worried about overheating the unit, especially if it becomes prudent (or necessary) to OC it.
You take that into account with overclocking, a good heatsink will let you run something like 4.6ghz at lower temps in a stress test than the stock cooler will run 3.4 at, and a couple of quiet case fans won't let heat build up in the case, there's also stuff like temperature monitoring so you know how hot things will get under X stress etc and planning around that. It's easy to make something run at the temperatures you want it to (overclock more, or less, different cooling capabilities etc)
gotta run mid-post, food
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Awesome, thanks Psuedo and Cyro, you guys rock. I'll spend some time looking through the stuff you guys recommended. I hope you don't mind if I send you guys a message with the completed specs before I go out and buy everything. Thanks again! :D
edit: Oops, looks like Cyro has more. I'm going to stay here until you get back! I really need as much info as I can get haha. I really appreciate the extra effort you guys are putting in!
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On May 18 2013 19:58 Cyro wrote:
840pro>830>m4
Just gotta add that the standard 840 is actually inferior to the 830 while being more expensive, and that's why we don't talk about it in these comparisons; just so that you don't get tricked by those designations.
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I'm not sure where you get this idea that the Samsung 840 is inferior to that of a 830. It uses TLC NAND rather than MLC but this is not relevant to a gamer as they will end up replacing the drive long before they run out of writes. The 840 outperforms the 830 in every category except sequential write which is not relevant for gaming?
Plus the 840 is not more expensive than the 830. The 840 is regularly under $100 while the 830 is typically over $100 from a merchant or user on Amazon or Ebay.
And both the Samsung 840 Pro is closer to $150 than it is to $110. Recommending a Crucial M4 and not a Samsung 840 or Crucial M5... makes no sense.
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EPT
