EPTComputer Build Resource Thread - Page 1496
| Forum Index > Tech Support |
When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. | ||
|
Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
| ||
|
Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
That means some savings if you want: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163231 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104131 If you're getting something like H60, you won't really need those extra SP120s. Well, if you're really getting SP120s to use on a cooler, may as well get the newer PWM-controlled versions, unless the motherboard does voltage control for CPU cooler fans. I kind of agree about mATX like SG09 though, unless the difference is critical to you. mATX is pretty much the same as ATX, whereas ITX is pretty restrictive in terms of choices. | ||
|
Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
| ||
|
zSoloo
50 Posts
Will a card in the 200$ area help me stream fine? \ Also if i scrap the 2 other fans, 2 h60's are fine? cause i get one with the CPU (prolly not even possible to use 2) | ||
|
Jugan
United States1566 Posts
Basically, I want to be able to play SC2 and Dota2 (SC2 on low, Dota2 on medium) while being able to stream it. I also want to be able to overclock safely in order to improve and smooth out performance. Here's the build I'm looking at right now, taken from some suggestions by Cyro and Psuedo. (with overclocking in mind) Mobo: I'm not sure right now. I think I can get this done within the next month; Psuedo suggested Haswell but it comes out in a few months (from what I understand) SSD: Samsung 840 pro, as suggested by Cyro. Open to suggestions though, not sure if this is the correct choice for me. CPU: intel i5 3570k. I was told I need a really good CPU, and Cyro suggested this one. If anyone has any input or a suggestion, I'm welcome to it (but please try to explain why your suggestion would be better or more optimal than this) HSF: hr-02 macho - Cyro recommended this one, stating it's generally quieter and more efficient. I definitely want to keep my rig cool and silence is pretty nice, so I don't mind spending extra on the HSF. GPU: AMD radeon hd7770. I don't know if this is the correct GPU for what I want to do, and would like some feedback on this. PSU: The Corsair cx430 and the Capstone 450 were recommended, but I don't mind spending a little bit more for better quality (provided it fits in the case). I also don't really know how much power I need for this rig. Case: I have no idea yet. I think I need a little help shopping once I figure out all my parts, but mainly I'm looking for something that fits everything and has good air flow. Thanks guys, hoping for some feedback! | ||
|
ensign_lee
United States1178 Posts
That being said, first releases always end up with bugs, so if you want stability over newness, I like your build. | ||
|
Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
HR-02 Macho pricing and availability in US kind of sucks. The only place to get it is Nan's Gaming Gear—or rather, better through Amazon and fulfilled by Nan's. But I guess around ~$50 there's not really better. If you wait for Haswell, you should probably be able to run those games off of the integrated HD 4600 graphics. Anyway, HD 7770 is too much for your needs. If you want something better quality, I'd say Seasonic G 360 (SSR-360GP), or Capstone 450 is okay. If you spend $80+ on a case, you can get something with noise dampening, but really, the only thing you really are dampening in there are the CPU cooler fan and any hard drives you have (the SSD should be effectively silent). You might not need that. | ||
|
iTzSnypah
United States1738 Posts
Things I agree with are the i5 and the Capstone 450. I don't agree on getting the HR-02 Macho. Yes it is a good HFS however a CM 212+/Xigamatek Gaia and a second fan will be cheaper and perform better. Cyro only recommends the HR-02 Macho because he has had a good experience with it. I've had a good experience with my CM TX3 however I never recommend it because good experience =/= good value. The 840 pro might be one of the best SSD's currently, but it's $20 premium (120/128GB version) is hard to justify unless you have a very specific and demanding workload (enterprise). You cannot feel the throughput difference between ANY of the current gen SATA 3 SSD's in normal use. I would say just get the cheaper 840 (non-pro). Belial or Cyro is going to cry a river about the lower endurance of TLC NAND. Bullshit you would have to write 12GB of data each day for 3 years straight to reach the guaranteed P/E cycle rating. I'm going to bet that they are going to say Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H as the recommended motherboard. That's fine and all except it's $50 more expensive than what you need. Belial started this elitist crap that all other motherboards are shit and you must buy a $130 motherboard and Delid or else. Truthfully a $80 ASRock Z77 Pro3/4 will easily get you to 4.3-4.5Ghz and will do everything the Gigabyte board will do. I would say get a bit more GPU power. The 7770 will do what you need it to do now, however having a mediocre graphics card for the next 2+ years might be a bad idea. Next gen consoles are going to be out by the end of the year and they are going to raise game graphics tremendously. I would say get a 7850 1GB / 7790 / GTX 650 Ti Boost. For the case there are soo many good options it's up in the air. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20321 Posts
Talking to somebody with a pro4 atm actually, and it doesn't even have manual voltage control or anything like that, nor decent LLC, it's more painful to work with. I would definately reccomend ud3/ud3h and hr-02 macho if budget allows for it, just because they are so much better parts, even if it's not always appropriate. It's very silly not to get a hr-02 macho REGARDLESS in the eu, IMO, though the price gap is much larger in US. And see, we have Myrm saying 7770 is too high and you saying it's probably too weak to be a good choice, it's so much down to opinion etc I appreciate the criticism though Belial or Cyro is going to cry a river about the lower endurance of TLC NAND Lol no. I would say go 830 or crucial m4 (or c500, if they turned out ok) though because i constantly hear bad shit about the 840, not just endurance, and i didn't bother to dedicate a decent period of time to actually looking into it in great depth. | ||
|
Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On May 19 2013 10:53 wo1fwood wrote: hmmm. What are your guys thoughts on the projected targets of Steamroller? I mean, especially because of the missed targets for Bulldozer (and eventual partial fix with PD), do you think that the approximate gains could be more accurate this time? I know, this is somewhat speculative. The chips are so complicated that it's really hard to make good projections about performance, even for the ones designing them. But evolutionary changes on a design, even with reworkings of the pipeline, execution resources, decoders, etc. really can't be expected to improve performance across the board, consistently by a large amount over all or most kinds of applications. You'll get greater gains in some things than others, and companies might well be citing kind of best-case scenario improvements (or "real-world" application improvement, whatever they think that is, or whatever), not necessarily in whatever benchmark or program you're interested in. But Bulldozer was radically different than anything before, so even harder to predict. Steamroller has a pretty high number of changes, significantly more than Bulldozer to Piledriver, but it might be expected that they have a better idea of what caused Bulldozer to be slower than expected, how they're addressing it with Piledriver, and the magnitude of improvements in performance—because they have a reference in existing Bulldozer and Piledriver performance. One of the criticisms of Bulldozer / Piledriver was that each module contained two integer cores with a shared front end (decoder), so the peak decoding performance per core was a lot lower than Phenom II and Intel offerings. With Steamroller, they're putting a dedicated decoder per core, which should definitely improve performance. Great, right? But note that if you were only using one core out of each module for Bulldozer—say, in a lighter-threaded application like a game, that doesn't hit all the cores—there isn't an improvement, is there? That said, there are a lot of other improvements to caches and registers, branch prediction, and other auxiliary parts, that should improve all kinds of performance. And I think 28 nm bulk process is supposed to be slightly better than the old 32 nm SOI? It should be more competitive for more workloads, but I don't expect to see many Steamroller builds here in the future. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20321 Posts
| ||
|
Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
That's not catching Ivy Bridge except in multithreaded because of extra cores, and I don't think Haswell's going to be worse than that. | ||
|
Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
If temperatures look alright and it's running stable, you increase multiplier. If temperature is not okay, you are sad and go down with multiplier and stop. If things are not stable, you increase the setting that results in higher voltage. It's exactly the same work flow. Additionally, ASRock has that turbo voltage setting. That one is just plain neat. It's better than using offset voltage, and it's missing on other boards. LLC, you just have to know what's up. The lowest level is LLC running on max. If you put it on highest level, it will be off. It's reversed compared to Asus and everyone else. That said, on the cheap ASRock, there just won't be a terribly stable voltage. You'll have to crank up voltage more than needed and thus have higher temperature. I lost 0.1 GHz compared to a pricey Gigabyte because of that. That board upgrade is objectively not worth it, but it was annoying to me. There's also the rest of what the board does, how stable it is, how much problems you might have with drivers and the BIOS. ASRock seems a lot better than Gigabyte in that regard. Their board just worked perfectly at all times, the PC and Windows were fine. It also boots super fast. Meanwhile, I more than once killed the Gigabyte BIOS, had to reflash it with its backup chip because clearing CMOS didn't work. Regarding upgrading stuff not being worth it, the same is happening with the HR-02 Macho. I have a 25 € cooler with four heat-pipes from Thermalright. The HR-02 has six heat-pipes and is 40 €, the largest will have eight. The temperatures won't decrease much in practice, it's perhaps 5 C per step, but it will be enough to get an additional 0.1 or 0.2 GHz out of it. It objectively won't make a noticeable difference to upgrade to pricier stuff. It might if you look at noise. The large coolers have that big slow fan, while the comparably small 120 mm fan is noisy when it's trying to compete with the big coolers at high temperatures. Personally, I regret not choosing the HR-02, but I can't justify an upgrade now that I already have the smaller cooler. I don't really know about the performance of the usually suggested Hyper 212 Evo, but I assume with its exposed heat-pipes, it's at least as good as my cooler. If that's true, it will also compare very well with bigger coolers. | ||
|
iTzSnypah
United States1738 Posts
On May 19 2013 14:06 Ropid wrote: I don't really know about the performance of the usually suggested Hyper 212 Evo, but I assume with its exposed heat-pipes, it's at least as good as my cooler. If that's true, it will also compare very well with bigger coolers. http://www.anandtech.com/show/6916/cooler-master-seidon-240m-and-12-more-coolers-the-retest-and-megaroundup/6 ![[image loading]](http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6916/54399.png) ![[image loading]](http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6916/54401.png) | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20321 Posts
any review that puts the nh-d14 at 1.4c better than the 212 evo is a fucking piece of trash. The difference is also a lot more than 5c. Steamroller numbers? We saw 30% improvement in IPC over bulldozer slated, but some AMD guy unofficially said 45%, though unclear what he meant exactly by that I removed every case fan but the front intake, which I ran at 5V Dude we talked about this exact review. I mean we specifically had like two or three pages trashing it. Next page, they put the NH-d14 at 1.1c above the 212 evo. Swiftech h220 less than 10c better - wtf is this? Seriously? | ||
|
Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
~30% over Bulldozer is what, ~15% over Piledriver, with part of the improvements there from clock speeds and not just IPC? Actually, on second thought, I checked again and there were more tweaks Bulldozer -> Piledriver than I remembered. Anyway, even if there is 45% improvement over Bulldozer single-threaded, that's still worse than Ivy Bridge on that front. But it's more likely to be 45% for some multi-threaded workload that benefits from the extra decoder per module; also, remember that Bulldozer clock speeds on full load are a bit behind Piledriver and Steamroller because of TDP limitations, so that's part of the difference too. | ||
|
Jugan
United States1566 Posts
Back again with another round of questions after reading your discourse about 100 times  Okay so first, for the GPU - is the hd7770 good? I've seen some people say they don't like it, other people saying it is really good. My friend said he read recently that maximumpc gave it really good reviews. For the PSU, I don't mind upgrading it but if I'll have more than enough power for my rig, then it doesn't make much sense does it? I'd like a little bit more insight into it if possible. I've been leaning more towards the corsair cx430 at the moment. For the HSF, I think I'm definitely going with the hr-02 macho unless there's something better in a similar price range. Cyro, I saw in your earlier post you mention something about possibly adding another cooling fan? Could you please shed some insight into this if I'm interpreting correctly. For the SSD, should I really go down to the regular 840? A bunch of people were bashing it a couple pages ago, from what I remember. I don't mind getting the 840 Pro if it's legit. If not, should I get a crucial m4 instead? While I want it to perform well, I don't want it to crap out either. Finally, for the MOBO, I don't really wanna fuss with it - I'd rather get something that fits my needs and I won't have to worry about fixing or sending back or whatever. I'm kind of scared of the Haswell from what I've been reading. Would it be better to get some sort of intel MOBO? I don't mind spending a little more on the Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H if it's proven and reliable. Thanks again for all the input! I'm coming in totally clueless, so I'm trying to gather as much information as I can. I appreciate it guys! | ||
|
Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
You'll have more than enough power for whatever no matter what reasonable retail power supply you buy, assuming you're not going (much) beyond HD 7770 or similar. Certainly you'd be in way overkill land if you go less than HD 7770 or stick with integrated. Some of the more-expensive alternatives listed, that cost more than CX430, would have come combination of higher reliability, more stable outputs, lower noise, higher efficiency, and longer warranty. That's regardless of the max wattage number they slap on the label. The layout of most aftermarket tower heatsinks allows for a fan in front pushing air through as well as a fan on the back side pulling air out of it. If you already have a fan pushing air through, adding a second fan can improve temps a few degrees or so. It really depends. However, you'd need a second pair of mounting clips, which some heatsinks do not come with (they can be bought separately sometimes, like for the Macho I think). SSD: no need for further clarification; my points are the same as before. For the motherboard, if you're buying Haswell, then you want Z87. We don't really know about these yet. Supposedly some or most or all launch motherboards will be affected by a chipset bug that causes some small number of USB3 flash drives to appear to be disconnected after waking up from putting the computer to sleep, which causes no data loss and just requires you to plug it in again. That's nothing to be concerned about. The real concern would be possible usual first-adopter kind of issues, maybe with some motherboards, if you get unlucky. Maybe. Nothing out of the ordinary. | ||
|
skyR
Canada13817 Posts
CX430 is just a budget unit, nothing special about it. It provides more than enough power for this sort of configuration and isn't going to blow up. Rosewill Capstone 450 provides even more power, two more years of warranty, and is built better overall. Lots of people prefer the M4 or 830 over the 840 simply because they're older drives so most hiccups have been ironed out or they're just simply ignorant. There is nothing wrong with the 840 other than the fact that it is worse than the 840 Pro. It's funny that everyone bashes on the 840 yet doesn't have a problem with a CX430 which by their reasoning would also be considered shit. All of these are good products, its just a matter of opinion on what one should get. Haswell is not compatible with Z77 boards, it'll be using Z87 boards. The 3570k will also not be compatible with Z87 boards. So if you want Haswell then don't bother wasting your time looking at the current Z77 boards. And Intel does not make better boards than its competitors. | ||
|
Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
If you want to choose the 840 Pro just to be safe and you don't want to make a mistake, the main problem I see is that there's the 840 at 250 GB which is cheap enough to get into competition with the 840 Pro at 128 GB. If you look at and compare the prices, making a decision may get easier. If you use the SSD like people will normally do, the 840 will be fine from what I've read. The 840 Pro might be a good idea if you do things like deleting and writing dozens of gigabytes of data to it multiple times a day. There's really no drive you can choose that will be 100 % reliable. If you prepare and have a plan of what to do if a drive dies, it's not scary at all, instead just annoying. You should maybe use an HDD for unimportant stuff and backups. The SSD helps a lot in not being annoyed by backup software running in the background. You can buy whatever you want and appreciate saving money on a cheaper SSD without worry if you feel your backup scheme is solid. | ||
| ||
