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Mexico2170 Posts
…Or is it Blink?
Now, hear me out. We all know warpgate has a lot of drawbacks (and a lot of cool, useful things). It helps Protoss defend expansion better, but also let’s Protoss attacks be very strong, as you’re able to create units near your opponents bases, removing the travel distance. Furthermore it creates the unit first and the cooldown comes later, so you’re getting the unit much faster than you would get it otherwise.
For years, Protoss gateway unit weaknesses have been attributed to this…but what if we were wrong? Warpgate design can be problematic, but is it really above being balanced?
![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/thumb/c/c8/SC2WarpGate.jpg/771px-SC2WarpGate.jpg)
Since the game's release, Warpgate has been nerfed, a lot. Research time is much slower, pylon radius has been nerfed and they now give a very slow warp in time. You need either a proxy gateway, nexus or warp prism to get fast warp ins. This increases the cost and time it takes to warp units and delays pushes significantly, as well as sometimes forcing you to either take more risk with a proxy, or having to go robo tech. It also makes Protoss push entirely reliant in keeping their warp prism/pylons alive. Because of this, I believe the blame has been missplaced, and that you can have strong gateway units, even with warpgate existing.
In fact, warp gate has been nerfed so much, Blizzard buffed the stalker.
In HotS the stalker had an attack of 10+ 4 vs armored. With a DPS of 6.9 (+2.8 vs armored). Currently it's damage was increased to 13 +5 vs armored with a DPS of 9.7+ 3.7 vs armored. That is a big increase. But I thought gateways units couldn’t be buffed? Turns out, there have been many changes to the stalkers through the years, at some point the stalker used to hit even harder, and attack once per second at the end of HotS
In fact, Stalkers used to be even stronger early in Legacy of the void. Its attack was changed to attack faster again and increase it’s damage to 15+6 vs armored. (currently 13+5) It also used to gain +2 base attack with every upgrade, instead of 1, making them scale better, but that was nerfed in January 2018 to it’s current state:
- Damage reduced from 15 (21 vs. armored) to 13 (18 vs. armored) and period reduced from 1.54 to 1.34.
- Protoss Ground Weapons upgrade will provide it +1 base damage and +1 armored instead of +2 base damage.
edit:
Source:
So, if the stalker was buffed with the warpgate nerfs, proving that you CAN make Protoss units stronger even with warpgate, why was it nerfed?
Because of Blink.
Blink is one of the most fun, and cool looking abilities in the game. It’s also incredibly problematic. It enables you to make your units much more efficient, and being able to maintain the damage of stalker compositions for longer as it increases their survivability. If the stalker is buffed to deal more damage, or scale better, that change becomes exponential the better you are at blink micro.
Blink is also super versatile. You can escape, ignore terrain, and go up and down cliffs. You can’t buff stalkers because with blink you could have 20 super stalkers going in and out your main base destroying everything and not dying. We’ve seen how strong blink allins have been historically, and how strong they are vs terran still, imagine if the stalkers were even better.
![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/thumb/7/75/Blink2.jpg/800px-Blink2.jpg)
Blink has proven so problematic before that its research time has been nerfed from 110 seconds to 170. That, alongside LotV reduced early and mid game stages, severely impacted Blink stalker use for years.
Blink does have drawbacks. There comes a point where you cannot blink effectively enough, and due to stalkers relatively low health and hard counters (tanks deal double dmaage now than in HotS and lurkers exist now) there comes a point in the game where it’s better to use your apm in something else. HerO was able to extend the usefulness of blink stalker in PvZ by mixing them with oracles and pushing a lot, forcing the enemy to make more units instead of teching, effectively extending the midgame, where blink stalkers excel.
But, what if we removed blink? I’m not saying we should, or that it would actually happen. This is just a thought experiment.
I believe if we removed blink, we would be able to buff stalkers a lot even though warp gates exist, and maybe even zealots. Stalkers would be more boring, but they would be stronger and scale better into the late game.
There would still be the issue of warping close to the enemy base, but I don’t think that’s as much of a big issue as people believe. Stalker damage would be buffed, but its survivability and versatility heavily nerfed. Strong units like Tanks and Lurkers would counter stalkers better as you wouldn’t be able to blink. But they would hold their ground better vs other core units, like Roach hydra and marine marauder.
Some might say, “what about drops and warp ins in the main?” That wouldn’t be a big issue either. Marauders are stronger and sturdier than stalkers already, and we see drops all the time that are strong, yet not game breaking. And sure, you can warp 8 stalkers in the enemy base if you want, but they have the same issue that dropping MM and then losing/taking your medivacs away would have, which is leaving them there to die eventually, as without blink you wouldn’t have an easy way to escape nor to maneuver around the base. Also, again, without blink stalkers wouldn’t be able to focus enemy units so easily, like well positioned tanks in the main or defensive bunkers. Further changes like reducing prism speed could also help balance it.
There are obviously a lot of pros and cons of doing this, and like I said, it isn't even realistic for it to happen. My point here is: Saying Protoss units cannot be buffed due to Warp gate is a fallacy. They can be buffed and they have been. It’s other parts of the race that stop this from happening. Protoss design is a bunch of cool ideas that in combination make the race very rigid and restrictive.
Another example of this is the adept. It sucks after a very small time window, but shade has a very similar problem as blink, except it’s more binary. If you buff adepts, you will only make all ins better.
The zealot is already a strong unit. Great runbys, great for drops, great for tanking. Maybe they could use a tier 3 upgrade, but you cannot say they’re bad.
In short. Warp gate isn’t the root of all evil. It does have some design issues, but they are fixed with balance, hell, they may already be fixed. It’s other parts of Protoss core unit design that stops them from being buffed.
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In HotS the stalker had an attack of 10+ 4 vs armored. With a DPS of 6.9 (+2.8 vs armored). Currently it's damage was increased to 13 +5 vs armored with a DPS of 9.7+ 3.7 vs armored. That is a big increase.
Stalkers have never got true DPS increase. The damage change was accompanied with the same attack cooldown increase. As for DPS values you listed, this is the result of Blizzard changing in game clock to match real time in the LoTV beta.
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Mexico2170 Posts
On February 19 2023 02:48 TheWildShooter wrote:Show nested quote +In HotS the stalker had an attack of 10+ 4 vs armored. With a DPS of 6.9 (+2.8 vs armored). Currently it's damage was increased to 13 +5 vs armored with a DPS of 9.7+ 3.7 vs armored. That is a big increase. Stalkers have never got true DPS increase. The damage change was accompanied with the same attack cooldown increase. As for DPS values you listed, this is the result of Blizzard changing in game clock to match real time in the LoTV beta.
Thanks for your comment, but they did in fact get a DPS increase. It can be confusing with so many changes.
The change you're referring to is when they changed them to have a stronger attack, but atack once per second, that was indeed suppoused to mantain their DPS, but make them "easier to hit and run" supousedly anyway.
However, they did increase the stalker attack to 15+6, this was on Novemeber 2017, 2 years after legacy of the void came out, and when the game became free to play.
Source:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230122185045/https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/starcraft2/21183638/starcraft-ii-4-0-patch-notes
A few months later, the salker was nerfed to it's current state, although it continues to be stronger than in the previous iteration.
Source:
https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/starcraft2/21494433/starcraft-ii-balance-update-january-29-2018
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You're basically turning the stalker into a dragoon if you remove blink and buff it, and the dragoon is a reasonably balanced unit. It's not the most interesting unit to be honest, but balance-wise I think it's reasonable. Protoss loses their biggest piece of catch / pursuit potential, but if dragoons have enough range it might be able to compensate. Alternatively, you can dramatically increase the cooldown on blink so that it's more of a positional than a micro tool (you can get your army into and out of positions, but you can't blink mid-fight to save units). I'm not sure whether that's an interesting middle ground to explore.
But it's worth noting that this doesn't let you buff "gateway units" as you suggest, but only the stalker. For instance, the zealot would remain a pretty tragic unit that is basically just a dps tank for most of the game, and changing blink doesn't really change the dynamics on the balance of the chargelot. For what it's worth, I think dragoon speedlot is a little easier to balance than blink stalker chargelot, but that would involve changing two of the core protoss gateway unit mechanics of SC2, which is probably a pretty hard sell
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On February 19 2023 02:54 [Phantom] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2023 02:48 TheWildShooter wrote:In HotS the stalker had an attack of 10+ 4 vs armored. With a DPS of 6.9 (+2.8 vs armored). Currently it's damage was increased to 13 +5 vs armored with a DPS of 9.7+ 3.7 vs armored. That is a big increase. Stalkers have never got true DPS increase. The damage change was accompanied with the same attack cooldown increase. As for DPS values you listed, this is the result of Blizzard changing in game clock to match real time in the LoTV beta. Thanks for your comment, but they did in fact get a DPS increase. It can be confusing with so many changes. The change you're referring to is when they changed them to have a stronger attack, but atack once per second, that was indeed suppoused to mantain their DPS, but make them "easier to hit and run" supousedly anyway. However, they did increase the stalker attack to 15+6, this was on Novemeber 2017, 2 years after legacy of the void came out, and when the game became free to play. Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20230122185045/https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/starcraft2/21183638/starcraft-ii-4-0-patch-notesA few months later, the salker was nerfed to it's current state, although it continues to be stronger than in the previous iteration. Source: https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/starcraft2/21494433/starcraft-ii-balance-update-january-29-2018
No. They increased the attack cooldown in that same patch:
Stalker
Particle Disruptors weapon damage changed from 10 (+4 Armored) to 15 (+6 Armored).
Weapon speed changed from 1 to 1.54.
Receives +2 base damage per level of Protoss Ground Weapon upgrades.
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Canada8989 Posts
Alert! The zerg cabal has infiltrated. I repeat, the zerg cabal is in the building!
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Mexico2170 Posts
On February 19 2023 03:37 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2023 02:54 [Phantom] wrote:On February 19 2023 02:48 TheWildShooter wrote:In HotS the stalker had an attack of 10+ 4 vs armored. With a DPS of 6.9 (+2.8 vs armored). Currently it's damage was increased to 13 +5 vs armored with a DPS of 9.7+ 3.7 vs armored. That is a big increase. Stalkers have never got true DPS increase. The damage change was accompanied with the same attack cooldown increase. As for DPS values you listed, this is the result of Blizzard changing in game clock to match real time in the LoTV beta. Thanks for your comment, but they did in fact get a DPS increase. It can be confusing with so many changes. The change you're referring to is when they changed them to have a stronger attack, but atack once per second, that was indeed suppoused to mantain their DPS, but make them "easier to hit and run" supousedly anyway. However, they did increase the stalker attack to 15+6, this was on Novemeber 2017, 2 years after legacy of the void came out, and when the game became free to play. Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20230122185045/https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/starcraft2/21183638/starcraft-ii-4-0-patch-notesA few months later, the salker was nerfed to it's current state, although it continues to be stronger than in the previous iteration. Source: https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/starcraft2/21494433/starcraft-ii-balance-update-january-29-2018 No. They increased the attack cooldown in that same patch: Show nested quote +
Stalker
Particle Disruptors weapon damage changed from 10 (+4 Armored) to 15 (+6 Armored).
Weapon speed changed from 1 to 1.54.
Receives +2 base damage per level of Protoss Ground Weapon upgrades.
....Yes, they changed the attack cooldown from 1 to 1.54, but they changed it again to it's current state of 1.34 source:  Stalker (Legacy of the Void)
They have changed the atack cooldown like 3 times for the stalker, in WoL it was 1.44. That doesn't mean it was to mantain the DPS, nor does it mean it was to match the atack to the clock in legacy of the voi. Again maybe 1 time it was, but not the latest 2 changes I put there, which like I said came out 2 years after LotV was changed. You do the math.
You can see the balance patch dicussion here:
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/528662-patch-40-starcraft-ii-is-free-to-play
With comments referencing the stronger stalker here:
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/528662-patch-40-starcraft-ii-is-free-to-play?page=4#69
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/528662-patch-40-starcraft-ii-is-free-to-play?page=8#150
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/528662-patch-40-starcraft-ii-is-free-to-play?page=11#204
And again, if the patch was only to mantain stalker DPS, why was it nerfed to 13+5 damage and atack rate of 1.34 3 months later?
https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/starcraft2/21494433/starcraft-ii-balance-update-january-29-2018
It was only nerfed cause the stalker ended up being too strong (yeah..)This just further proves my point that people think gateway units not being able to be buffed because of warp gate is an illusion. They have been buffed before.
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On February 19 2023 04:10 [Phantom] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2023 03:37 Athenau wrote:On February 19 2023 02:54 [Phantom] wrote:On February 19 2023 02:48 TheWildShooter wrote:In HotS the stalker had an attack of 10+ 4 vs armored. With a DPS of 6.9 (+2.8 vs armored). Currently it's damage was increased to 13 +5 vs armored with a DPS of 9.7+ 3.7 vs armored. That is a big increase. Stalkers have never got true DPS increase. The damage change was accompanied with the same attack cooldown increase. As for DPS values you listed, this is the result of Blizzard changing in game clock to match real time in the LoTV beta. Thanks for your comment, but they did in fact get a DPS increase. It can be confusing with so many changes. The change you're referring to is when they changed them to have a stronger attack, but atack once per second, that was indeed suppoused to mantain their DPS, but make them "easier to hit and run" supousedly anyway. However, they did increase the stalker attack to 15+6, this was on Novemeber 2017, 2 years after legacy of the void came out, and when the game became free to play. Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20230122185045/https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/starcraft2/21183638/starcraft-ii-4-0-patch-notesA few months later, the salker was nerfed to it's current state, although it continues to be stronger than in the previous iteration. Source: https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/starcraft2/21494433/starcraft-ii-balance-update-january-29-2018 No. They increased the attack cooldown in that same patch:
Stalker
Particle Disruptors weapon damage changed from 10 (+4 Armored) to 15 (+6 Armored).
Weapon speed changed from 1 to 1.54.
Receives +2 base damage per level of Protoss Ground Weapon upgrades.
....Yes, they changed the attack cooldown from 1 to 1.54, but guess what? they changed it again to it's current state of 1.34 source: Stalker (Legacy of the Void) They have changed the atack cooldown like 3 times for the stalker. That doesn't mean it was to mantain the DPS, nor does it mean it was to match the atack to the clock in legacy of the voi. Again maybe 1 time it was, but not the latest 2 changes I put there, which like I said came out 2 years after LotV was changed. You do the math. You can see the balance patch dicussion here: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/528662-patch-40-starcraft-ii-is-free-to-playWith comments referencing the stronger stalker here: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/528662-patch-40-starcraft-ii-is-free-to-play?page=4#69https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/528662-patch-40-starcraft-ii-is-free-to-play?page=8#150https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/528662-patch-40-starcraft-ii-is-free-to-play?page=11#204And again, if the patch was only to mantain stalker DPS, why was it nerfed to 13+5 damage and atack rate of 1.34 3 months later? https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/starcraft2/21494433/starcraft-ii-balance-update-january-29-2018It was only nerfed cause the stalker ended up being too strong (yeah..)This just further proves my point that people think gateway units not being able to be buffed because of warp gate is an illusion. They have been buffed before.
I'm not sure what this word salad has to do anything. You said Stalkers got a DPS increase, they didn't. All three variants of Stalkers had virtually identical base DPS. The only slight buff the Stalker got in that regard was with better upgrade scaling.
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The damage change is literally a % increase in damage and attack cooldown. The only difference is that now it gets more damage pr. upg vs armoured, making it a better anti-armour unit.
Before Stalkers weren't that great vs Roaches, but now the Zerg need something more with the army, though they can easily just turn those Roaches into Ravagers 
They also overkill more, but at the same time kiting is way stronger. I think it was overall a pretty huge buff to Protoss this change. Especially at killing Medivacs, Voids and Ultras.
The stalker does have 20 less hp than the sc1 dragoon. But I don't think there is one culprit, they decided early on that this Stalker was going to have Blink and that Protoss was going to have the Warp Gate mechanic, so I think they did a concious effort when they put so much Protoss power into the Robotics units. If you wait for the last Colossus to make it across the map then there is some defenders advantage. But maybe they just lucked out on this aspect.
Look at 4gate Blink vs Terran, it utilizes the WG mechanic, the Blink mechanic and even the Warp Prism Blink mechanic to eek out everything from the Stalker. This build is the definition of abusive, not that it's not a cool build. But in most other cases you're not lumping more of these things together and so it's actually good design that the Stalker has Blink, is on Warp Gate and gains Strength from energy units + Robo units that are slower at getting out on the map. And that Protoss also benefits from a defensive mechanic (Battery Overcharge).
Lets say the Stalker was just stronger, but you removed Blink, then Warp Gate would still make it too powerful on timing attacks, Prism blink would be stronger and they would also be too strong on the defensive with Battery Overcharge. So what I'm saying is that the Stalker is in a good spot and all these things that buff the Stalker ,do their best to keep the race relevant without making 1 build broken.
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Mexico2170 Posts
On February 19 2023 04:30 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2023 04:10 [Phantom] wrote:On February 19 2023 03:37 Athenau wrote:On February 19 2023 02:54 [Phantom] wrote:On February 19 2023 02:48 TheWildShooter wrote:In HotS the stalker had an attack of 10+ 4 vs armored. With a DPS of 6.9 (+2.8 vs armored). Currently it's damage was increased to 13 +5 vs armored with a DPS of 9.7+ 3.7 vs armored. That is a big increase. Stalkers have never got true DPS increase. The damage change was accompanied with the same attack cooldown increase. As for DPS values you listed, this is the result of Blizzard changing in game clock to match real time in the LoTV beta. Thanks for your comment, but they did in fact get a DPS increase. It can be confusing with so many changes. The change you're referring to is when they changed them to have a stronger attack, but atack once per second, that was indeed suppoused to mantain their DPS, but make them "easier to hit and run" supousedly anyway. However, they did increase the stalker attack to 15+6, this was on Novemeber 2017, 2 years after legacy of the void came out, and when the game became free to play. Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20230122185045/https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/starcraft2/21183638/starcraft-ii-4-0-patch-notesA few months later, the salker was nerfed to it's current state, although it continues to be stronger than in the previous iteration. Source: https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/starcraft2/21494433/starcraft-ii-balance-update-january-29-2018 No. They increased the attack cooldown in that same patch:
Stalker
Particle Disruptors weapon damage changed from 10 (+4 Armored) to 15 (+6 Armored).
Weapon speed changed from 1 to 1.54.
Receives +2 base damage per level of Protoss Ground Weapon upgrades.
....Yes, they changed the attack cooldown from 1 to 1.54, but guess what? they changed it again to it's current state of 1.34 source: Stalker (Legacy of the Void) They have changed the atack cooldown like 3 times for the stalker. That doesn't mean it was to mantain the DPS, nor does it mean it was to match the atack to the clock in legacy of the voi. Again maybe 1 time it was, but not the latest 2 changes I put there, which like I said came out 2 years after LotV was changed. You do the math. You can see the balance patch dicussion here: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/528662-patch-40-starcraft-ii-is-free-to-playWith comments referencing the stronger stalker here: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/528662-patch-40-starcraft-ii-is-free-to-play?page=4#69https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/528662-patch-40-starcraft-ii-is-free-to-play?page=8#150https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/528662-patch-40-starcraft-ii-is-free-to-play?page=11#204And again, if the patch was only to mantain stalker DPS, why was it nerfed to 13+5 damage and atack rate of 1.34 3 months later? https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/starcraft2/21494433/starcraft-ii-balance-update-january-29-2018It was only nerfed cause the stalker ended up being too strong (yeah..)This just further proves my point that people think gateway units not being able to be buffed because of warp gate is an illusion. They have been buffed before. I'm not sure what this word salad has to do anything. You said Stalkers got a DPS increase, they didn't. All three variants of Stalkers had virtually identical base DPS. The only slight buff the Stalker got in that regard was with better upgrade scaling.
The Stalker DPS did change over the years... If you don't believe be maybe you'll believe liquipedia .You can just compare the Hots page with the lotv one
(Wiki)Stalker (Heart of the Swarm)
(Wiki)Stalker (Legacy of the Void)
And that's not because of the change in the ingame clock, as the starting DPS of the stalker in LotV was 10
Particle Disruptors weapon damage changed from 10 (+4 Armored) atack speed 1.
I even showed proof in balance threads of the time talking about the buffed stalker, but whatver.
That's not even the point of the post. The point of the post is to talk about if warp gate is really the core issue of the Protoss, or if even with warp gate you could buff gateway units if you just changed their design.
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Mexico2170 Posts
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I think stalkers could have a better weapon against air units. It will help to balance the golden armada which isn t fun because air units must be used to disturb, harass or cast spells AND not for win the game unless your opponent fucked up.
A SC3 rework were game is slowed and fight are longer (and with more light units to balance the ratio between armored and light units)
Increase the damage of air weapon for stalker
Tempest range or damage re-worked
Carrier couldn t build interceptors when they are moving / + interceptor rework (design against armored or light)
Void ray removed
Adepts function overlap stalkers, and with Dark templars blink, you get three units with a teleport ability. I think it s a problem. So Adepts have to be tweaked or replaced
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I've been ranting against Warp Gate for more than 10 years now. It's always going to be the biggest problem with Protoss design in Starcraft 2.
Stalkers vs Dragoons is another topic, but it's a symptom, not a cause of Protoss woes. Even if Stalkers were buffed up to be closer to Dragoon stats, that doesn't change the fact that Zealots are nowhere near as effective of units as they were in SC1 either. The problem with Warp Gate keeping all Protoss Gateway units balanced around it is that it affects ALL Protoss Gateway units, not just Stalkers.
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Both Warpgate and Blink are so integrated into SC2 now, I think it would not be SC2 if they were removed. There were a few mods made without them (Starbow etc), but I don't think they made it that far.
The dragoon is a pretty boring unit, and with the Marauder in the game, the Stalker just fits better. Protoss is also all about space and time manipulation, and both mechanics fit great there!
For blance, both mechanics are a nightmare, of course. The power of Gateway units are on a razor edge, and Z/T needed very strong mechanics of their own, like stim+speedvacs, mines, injects, queens and banelings. I have a hard time seeing what else Protoss could have gotten to make the race interesting to play and play against. Stronger adepts, maybe?
I feel Protoss is the ninja/trickery race, which has to lack some straight-up punching power to compensate. Some love it!
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On February 19 2023 04:55 [Phantom] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2023 04:30 Athenau wrote:On February 19 2023 04:10 [Phantom] wrote:On February 19 2023 03:37 Athenau wrote:On February 19 2023 02:54 [Phantom] wrote:On February 19 2023 02:48 TheWildShooter wrote:In HotS the stalker had an attack of 10+ 4 vs armored. With a DPS of 6.9 (+2.8 vs armored). Currently it's damage was increased to 13 +5 vs armored with a DPS of 9.7+ 3.7 vs armored. That is a big increase. Stalkers have never got true DPS increase. The damage change was accompanied with the same attack cooldown increase. As for DPS values you listed, this is the result of Blizzard changing in game clock to match real time in the LoTV beta. Thanks for your comment, but they did in fact get a DPS increase. It can be confusing with so many changes. The change you're referring to is when they changed them to have a stronger attack, but atack once per second, that was indeed suppoused to mantain their DPS, but make them "easier to hit and run" supousedly anyway. However, they did increase the stalker attack to 15+6, this was on Novemeber 2017, 2 years after legacy of the void came out, and when the game became free to play. Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20230122185045/https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/starcraft2/21183638/starcraft-ii-4-0-patch-notesA few months later, the salker was nerfed to it's current state, although it continues to be stronger than in the previous iteration. Source: https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/starcraft2/21494433/starcraft-ii-balance-update-january-29-2018 No. They increased the attack cooldown in that same patch:
Stalker
Particle Disruptors weapon damage changed from 10 (+4 Armored) to 15 (+6 Armored).
Weapon speed changed from 1 to 1.54.
Receives +2 base damage per level of Protoss Ground Weapon upgrades.
....Yes, they changed the attack cooldown from 1 to 1.54, but guess what? they changed it again to it's current state of 1.34 source: Stalker (Legacy of the Void) They have changed the atack cooldown like 3 times for the stalker. That doesn't mean it was to mantain the DPS, nor does it mean it was to match the atack to the clock in legacy of the voi. Again maybe 1 time it was, but not the latest 2 changes I put there, which like I said came out 2 years after LotV was changed. You do the math. You can see the balance patch dicussion here: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/528662-patch-40-starcraft-ii-is-free-to-playWith comments referencing the stronger stalker here: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/528662-patch-40-starcraft-ii-is-free-to-play?page=4#69https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/528662-patch-40-starcraft-ii-is-free-to-play?page=8#150https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/528662-patch-40-starcraft-ii-is-free-to-play?page=11#204And again, if the patch was only to mantain stalker DPS, why was it nerfed to 13+5 damage and atack rate of 1.34 3 months later? https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/starcraft2/21494433/starcraft-ii-balance-update-january-29-2018It was only nerfed cause the stalker ended up being too strong (yeah..)This just further proves my point that people think gateway units not being able to be buffed because of warp gate is an illusion. They have been buffed before. I'm not sure what this word salad has to do anything. You said Stalkers got a DPS increase, they didn't. All three variants of Stalkers had virtually identical base DPS. The only slight buff the Stalker got in that regard was with better upgrade scaling. The Stalker DPS did change over the years... If you don't believe be maybe you'll believe liquipedia .You can just compare the Hots page with the lotv one (Wiki)Stalker (Heart of the Swarm) (Wiki)Stalker (Legacy of the Void) And that's not because of the change in the ingame clock, as the starting DPS of the stalker in LotV was 10 Particle Disruptors weapon damage changed from 10 (+4 Armored) atack speed 1. I even showed proof in balance threads of the time talking about the buffed stalker, but whatver. That's not even the point of the post. The point of the post is to talk about if warp gate is really the core issue of the Protoss, or if even with warp gate you could buff gateway units if you just changed their design.
The starting DPS of the stalker is 9.7 now from 10 at the start of LoTV. Exactly what is this supposed to prove? And the Heart of the Swarm numbers all go by game time, not real time, as has been pointed out numerous times.
I don't know why you're so adamant about dying on this hill.
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yes, it is
anyway stalker damage/cd change was partially reverted because 15 base damage made it 3 shot scvs and marines early game which was considered too strong at the time
blizzard has a hard rule with damage upgrade scaling as well which reduced its scaling vs non armored as a result
(+10% per upgrade rounded, min 1 max 5)
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Warp gate is the coolest thing about Protoss
Over the years, Protoss is the only race that constantly has to change their openings and builds due to patches and nerfs
While terran and Zerg has the luxury of doing the same opening and build for years
Terrans majority of the time gets to open with expanding and 1-1-1
Zergs gets to do it’s fast 3 hatch pool opening
They need to bring back the old warp gate to keep T and Z honest
P.s gateway units still suck ass. It was only somewhat decent when stalker could 3 shot a marine and when zealot charge was awesome
But T and Z cry too much about it and now we toss are stuck with this current weak gateway unit
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Bisutopia19225 Posts
I played the starbow mod for fun recently. I never used warpgate even though the mod is it, and loved the gameplay so much. MBS takes the pain of BW Protoss macro away and is super efficient. I’m fine if we can only warp through warp prisms as a future change.
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The starcraft fandom wiki lists that the dragoon was part of the original development and then Kim scrapped it because it felt like it was too reliable of a backbone unit for Protoss.
I always assumed that gateway units suck because warpgate all-ins shouldn't be too powerful, but if that really was the case then they could have just nerfed warpgate more. The reality is that Protoss was supposed to be a gimmicky race that revolves around all-ins and high tier units by design.
On a side note I'd argue that having stronger but slower shots is a buff on a fairly mobile unit.
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EPT
