EPTThe explanation given by MacSed sounds so fishy that I literally laughed out loud reading it. Absolutely ridiculous, haha..
Suspicious betting-odds changes at WESG 2018? - Page 16
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On March 14 2019 11:57 jy_9876543210 wrote: Macsed's response: "说下当时情况吧，第一盘打完我觉得这个人很菜，当然所有人都和我这么说，我也觉得他很菜，然后第二盘才会选择一个低保rush因为我觉得只要过去把他门口的兵营打了就能赢，但是我过去看到他家里有个兵营没开气我以为他要开2矿，我就封了他得气，一旦封了他拿什么打我低保？可我万万没想到他这个战术是rail教他的，因为在职业内战里面这种战术是不成立的，所以我就没多想。打完这场比赛rail跑过来疯狂炫耀说是我教的，因为他知道我会觉得他是菜鸟肯定会想快点结束，然后就家里一个兵营外面3个兵营来骗我。果真我被骗到了，当时被骗到了乱导致各种失误，但是我认为就算不失误这一盘我也赢不了，因为我家里已经挡不住了，他只要在外面开个基地农民传出来也是随便赢。哎都怪我，太丢人了" My translation: "The situation was, after the first map I thought this guy is weak, of course that's also what everyone's been telling me, and I felt the same. So on the second map I decided to cannon rush since I thought I could win by destroying the gateway in his base, but when I saw his base, there's a gateway but no gas, so I thought he's gonna expand, and I blocked his gas, so he can't stop my cannon rush. But what I didn't know was that it's rail who taught him this strategy, because he knew that I would try to finish this game quickly since I thought my opponent is weak, and he tricked me by one gateway in main base and 3 proxies outside. That totally got me, and resulted in a lot of mistakes from me. But I think even if I didn't make those mistakes, I still wouldn't win that map, since I couldn't defend my base, he could just make another base and recall the probes. It's my fault, this is an embarrassing game." | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4262 Posts
The explanation given by MacSed sounds so fishy that I literally laughed out loud reading it. Absolutely ridiculous, haha.. | ||
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Popkiller
3415 Posts
On March 14 2019 17:28 opisska wrote: Do they? Do you really have statistics on that, or just a vague feeling? that's an interesting point, I only follow SC2 so those are the only events I hear about, and those all have. But, true, it's possible that people only make posts when the strange betting patterns are accompanied by a matching game result. It's possible that there are many strange, huge bets we never hear about because they got it wrong. But since these are low-probability bets, for it all to be pure luck, the number of people betting big and losing would have to vastly outnumber cases like this one. So if someone were to look at SC2 betting history, they'd expect to find a huge number of crazy, losing bets. I wonder... | ||
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Tayar
United States1439 Posts
how is a diamond league player even in this tournament? | ||
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Chris_Havoc
United States600 Posts
On March 14 2019 13:36 BigFan wrote: Overall, there's always a chance that he was playing badly but some of these mistakes are definitely bizzare. Still, I believe that people should respect the final decision of the tournament organizer and waiting patiently for it. I remember when MKP had that weird game that he lost, and was found innocent after the investigation so who knows what they'll find here. Indeed I don't want any players' career tarnished or ruined based on a supposition. MacSed could easily be found innocent of wrongdoing and yet have his reputation ruined in a manner similar to what happened to MarineKing. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On March 14 2019 17:41 Chris_Havoc wrote: Indeed I don't want any players' career tarnished or ruined based on a supposition. MacSed could easily be found innocent of wrongdoing and yet have his reputation ruined in a manner similar to what happened to MarineKing. I admit to not following the scene at all in 2015, and im going by just what i read on Liquipedia, but from there i got the idea that he was internally investigated by his team/organization and found not guilty, and nor KeSpa nor teh actual law-enforcement cleared him or indicted him " In an internal investigation, they interviewed their Terran player several times about that match. Due to him denying match-fixing and looking into the replay, they concluded that MarineKing lost the match due to personal stress and pressure. There has not been any statement by KeSPA about that incident. Also, there has not been any final evidence about this match being fixed or not." So from that i gathered that he was left in a bit of a limbo, but it's not like he was cleared and his reputation suffered unduly, while he was obviously innocent. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On March 14 2019 17:39 Popkiller wrote: that's an interesting point, I only follow SC2 so those are the only events I hear about, and those all have. But, true, it's possible that people only make posts when the strange betting patterns are accompanied by a matching game result. It's possible that there are many strange, huge bets we never hear about because they got it wrong. But since these are low-probability bets, for it all to be pure luck, the number of people betting big and losing would have to vastly outnumber cases like this one. So if someone were to look at SC2 betting history, they'd expect to find a huge number of crazy, losing bets. I wonder... Yeah I don't bet so have no idea if such data is even anyhow available for past bets or no, but I would be genuinely interested in the data if someone knew how to dig that up. | ||
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VanCaspel
Netherlands250 Posts
On March 14 2019 17:07 _fool wrote: Just curious: is it common that after a match, players come over to the referee to tell them whose idea it was to run a certain strategy? It was not so much 'coming over' as it was turning around. I was sitting behind him to the left, between him and MacSed. Seventy91 was elated when he won, and he turned around and told me he was glad Rail gave him that strategy. And that he made one of the gates in his base by mistake and that that saved him. I already had several conversations with Seventy91 at that point, including a little interview with the aim of making a Liquipedia page for him (which got removed  ). So it's not like he walked over to some anonymous referee to volunteer this information. The same goes for Rail, I think we spoke during lunch when he talked about giving Seventy91 that strategy.I hope that helps! | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
"oh boohoo, a proxy gate build!!! I've suddenly reverted back to a 3K MMR protoss". Nah. The thing is, whatever build Seventy91 chose to do is almost completely irrelevant here, what MacSed is accused of is to have planned to drop a game to him in advance (and he knew he was a weaker player, see the message). The actual opposing build caught him off-guard, sure, but he was always going to lose that game. | ||
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deepseer
31 Posts
On March 14 2019 18:35 ZenithM wrote: MacSed's response was exactly what you would expect coming from someone who match fixed. It didn't offer any new insight that could counter the stronger arguments against fixing. Not convincing at all, and pointless. Any response is exactly what you would expect from "a witch" in a witch hunt. I agree that it didn't offer any new insight, but what kind of response are you expecting? | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
And to reiterate what I said earlier, his message doesn't change my view that a replay and a weird betting pattern are not enough to ban him from tournaments. But "justice" and people's beliefs are two separate things. I can believe he match fixed but also think you can't ban him yet. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 14 2019 17:13 deacon.frost wrote: In this case the authorities can access all the data they need, it's not hard. What's more interesting is, how all the "it's matchfixing" guys ignore the response from the referee and Pinnacle. Because they simply don't like it. That's the proper witchhunt. ONLY MY EVIDENCE IS WORTH IT, EVERYONE ELSE'S EVIDENCE IS IGNORED!@#!$!!!!!!!! HURR DURR!!! Yeah, but even then the criminal system has more than "line moved, but we don't know how much money was involved"* and "he played suspiciously". This is ALL we have. Hey, pvsnp, thanks for the fighting spirt Sorry if I butchered your nick _______ *btw you do realize that since this was a match of a very unknown player and underdog against a streamer, it could have had very high instability put in the algorithm and just few hundred bucks could have been responsible for all the movement? Because of how volatile the SC2 game is and because it's hard to predict for sure on BO1? (which is what this bet was about) Edit> But why am I surprised, even KeSPA standing behind MKP didn't help from some people simply saying - it was matchfixing, I know better than people who harshly punish typing into the chat and left this guy unpunished. Hey man thanks for the shoutout, I try. You got it just right. Keep fighting the good fight | ||
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Stormhoof
Serbia182 Posts
I felt obliged to participate in this thread since my and Seventy names are in it. First of all, Serbia got wesg spot directly which is only result of losing Dota2 spot. We had strong dota2 team which should go to wesg directly but it waa changed at the very end by some strange decisions from.wesg organisers, afaik. To compensate that Serbia got direct slot for sc2, which is ofc terrible since we only have 2 active GM players who didnt wanted to participate. We all expected Beastyqt to come abd stomp us all and go to China but he retired from professional competition which left us with 5 players who played round robin system with finals for qualifying spot. I was 7 times high master player but was completely out of scene for 4 years before this qualifier (you can check aligulac for earlier matches where i beat Kelazhur, SouL, and others). I even toom zerg because i faced all protoss players and won whole thing knowing i have attorneys examination bar in march and immidiately told organisers i cant go with probability of 80%. We waited for date and when it was published i forfeited my spot because it overlapped with wesg and i had no intention to postpone my real life obligations for sc2 since im nowhere nearly pro, obviosly. Seventy got in just a couple of weeks before tournament and havent practiced at all. His mmr is way higher then 4k when he is active, but of course not MacSed level. Someone obviosly made fake Seventy91 profile on reddit and is writing complete bs because seventy cannot spend more then 5 mins on fb or tw before connection colapse. Dont know if Chinese state is to be blamed for this but he is out of our sc2 viber group since he left, we cant communicate much with him. I only saw sshots of his writings to us that he heard of matchfixing but has no idea if its true. One gate in base and 3 proxied was hisnidea to confuse macsed and his roommate Rail told.him its good so he tried. Just want to say that he wasnt involved. I dont kniw for Macsed. If u ask me, its impossible for him to lose even 1 unit and not a map to seventy and it should be investigated but lets not drag Serbian into this. I am not defending him because we are countrymans, just because i know he was trying hard for this and it was macseds bs if he let him take a map for money. If you ask me personally, no one of us from Serbia who played in qualifier cant take map from and player with 5000 and more mmr. So MacSed should be bannes for this but Seventy has nothing to do with that. Kind regards to all, (Zerox, stormhoof, nithala) | ||
SharkStarcraft
Austria2260 Posts
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
And then add into the fact that someone, out in the nether bets HEAVY on this outcome to occur but doesnt bet like that on any other match. Blizzard should investigate this and I would say I'm at least 99% certain this is a fix. Good detective work by OP, hope you can re-earn your loss. | ||
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SoChaRIs
Denmark6 Posts
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Penev
28528 Posts
Of course there is a lot of focus on the suspicious game and now Macsed's explanation of it and to be fair, it's all hilarious stuff. But it's not going to reveal anything. What matters is a LRSL level player managed to qualify for WESG. He now has to play 5 matches against far better players than him. A few hours before the kick off a large enough amount of money was placed on 1 of these matches for him to take 1 map to change betting lines significantly. Not on any of the other four, just this one. And this is exactly what happens. On it's own it's not enough for the organization or authorities to ban or punish Macsed but it certainly is enough to open an investigation. If nothing is found we all have to accept the outcome. Better to have guilty people go free than innocent ones punished. Still, it should be clear to everyone what has happened here. I don't think this new thread title needs a question mark. | ||
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rotta
5616 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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