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On October 20 2018 02:42 11cc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:On October 19 2018 23:50 youngjiddle wrote:
Korean fanboys will forever be cheering against foreigners.
There is some weird, psychology of self loathing people have towards their own region's players here on TL, maybe because people have become disappointed by foreigners lose to Koreans so many times. Maybe because they are tired of people saying "we'll beat the Koreans this time" and it never happens.
Serral will prove everyone wrong, hopefully. Thank you, region lock. I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans: -It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms -Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player -4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral. Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) Those arguments don't make much sense though. - Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns. If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game. - You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him. - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect. - lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. Who argued that? To make a hyperbole in the other direction, it annoys me that some Korean elitists seem to think that just participating in GSL makes you WCS champion material. GSL is harder than WCS, sure but they're not lightyears apart.
The higher rounds of GSL are still far apart from WCS. But Ro32 Code S is nowhere near what it used to be what with there only being about 35 Korean pros. But it's an image people have a hard time getting out of their heads.
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On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:On October 19 2018 23:50 youngjiddle wrote:
Korean fanboys will forever be cheering against foreigners.
There is some weird, psychology of self loathing people have towards their own region's players here on TL, maybe because people have become disappointed by foreigners lose to Koreans so many times. Maybe because they are tired of people saying "we'll beat the Koreans this time" and it never happens.
Serral will prove everyone wrong, hopefully. Thank you, region lock. I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans: -It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms -Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player -4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral. Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect.
Agreed. But I also don't see any good argument that Serral is better than those 4.
He won 1 tournament with koreans. Rogue, Stats, Classic all did the same this year.
He won 4 WCS seasons. put those 4 in a WCS and it's highly likely they'd win 4 as well. So why would Serral be favored against them?
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On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:On October 19 2018 23:50 youngjiddle wrote:
Korean fanboys will forever be cheering against foreigners.
There is some weird, psychology of self loathing people have towards their own region's players here on TL, maybe because people have become disappointed by foreigners lose to Koreans so many times. Maybe because they are tired of people saying "we'll beat the Koreans this time" and it never happens.
Serral will prove everyone wrong, hopefully. Thank you, region lock. I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans: -It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms -Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player -4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral. Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) Those arguments don't make much sense though. - Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns. If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game. - You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him. - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect. - lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field.
I really want Serral to win Blizzcon so I can continue to read the mental gymnastics of TLers trying to undermine what would have been the best performance of any sc2 player in the history of the game
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On October 20 2018 02:42 11cc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:On October 19 2018 23:50 youngjiddle wrote:
Korean fanboys will forever be cheering against foreigners.
There is some weird, psychology of self loathing people have towards their own region's players here on TL, maybe because people have become disappointed by foreigners lose to Koreans so many times. Maybe because they are tired of people saying "we'll beat the Koreans this time" and it never happens.
Serral will prove everyone wrong, hopefully. Thank you, region lock. I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans: -It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms -Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player -4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral. Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) Those arguments don't make much sense though. - Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns. If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game. - You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him. - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect. - lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. Who argued that? To make a hyperbole in the other direction, it annoys me that some Korean elitists seem to think that just participating in GSL makes you WCS champion material. GSL is harder than WCS, sure but they're not lightyears apart.
You did. EDIT: Apologies it was youngjiddle you said this not you.
"lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol)"
Maybe you didn't mean to, but it sounded to me like you were opposing the idea of GSL being "in the big leagues". And you used two of the biggest upsets ever to make an example of that.
My point was that Serral does not compete in the most difficult field. You seem to agree with this idea but keep dodging around it.
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On October 20 2018 02:54 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:On October 19 2018 23:50 youngjiddle wrote:
Korean fanboys will forever be cheering against foreigners.
There is some weird, psychology of self loathing people have towards their own region's players here on TL, maybe because people have become disappointed by foreigners lose to Koreans so many times. Maybe because they are tired of people saying "we'll beat the Koreans this time" and it never happens.
Serral will prove everyone wrong, hopefully. Thank you, region lock. I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans: -It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms -Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player -4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral. Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) Those arguments don't make much sense though. - Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns. If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game. - You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him. - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect. - lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. I really want Serral to win Blizzcon so I can continue to read the mental gymnastics of TLers trying to undermine what would have been the best performance of any sc2 player in the history of the game
winning blizzcon would be the best performance of any sc2 player ever!?
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On October 20 2018 02:54 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:On October 19 2018 23:50 youngjiddle wrote:
Korean fanboys will forever be cheering against foreigners.
There is some weird, psychology of self loathing people have towards their own region's players here on TL, maybe because people have become disappointed by foreigners lose to Koreans so many times. Maybe because they are tired of people saying "we'll beat the Koreans this time" and it never happens.
Serral will prove everyone wrong, hopefully. Thank you, region lock. I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans: -It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms -Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player -4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral. Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) Those arguments don't make much sense though. - Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns. If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game. - You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him. - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect. - lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. I really want Serral to win Blizzcon so I can continue to read the mental gymnastics of TLers trying to undermine what would have been the best performance of any sc2 player in the history of the game
Are you actually disagreeing with anything I said or not? All I said was that GSL is a tougher beast than WCS. And that fact alone means Serral isn't playing in the toughest field.
I never said Serral has to play in GSL, or that he isn't the best in the world until he wins it, or whatever bullshit people seem to think I did. Literally all I'm saying is that GSL > WCS. If you think otherwise I'd love to hear it.
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On October 20 2018 02:42 11cc wrote:
Who argued that?
On October 20 2018 02:56 Fango wrote:
You did.
On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:
lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol).
I dunno Kev
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On October 20 2018 01:19 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2018 14:45 Drfilip wrote:On October 19 2018 10:12 Shuffleblade wrote:On October 19 2018 09:59 Dave4 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 19 2018 09:29 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2018 09:04 Dave4 wrote:On October 19 2018 08:03 Shuffleblade wrote:On October 19 2018 06:52 Dave4 wrote:On October 19 2018 06:18 Shuffleblade wrote:On October 19 2018 04:53 kajtarp wrote:
I dont want to be the bad guy here, but i'm afraid he won't even make it out of the group phase. Well most foreigners are in a pretty tough situation seeing as there's 2 koreans in every group and every korean is killer good(personal opinion). I would say Serral got one of if not the easiest group though(only looking at koreans). Edit: Dave4, as "some point out", you mean as you point out.... -_- Also even if every single GSL would have been won by a different players Serral still wouldn't be regarded as best in the world. Since GSL vs the world is far from enough to prove that, and to be honest thats the only tournament worth mentioning if we are discussing best player in the world. Doesn't matter if he wins 20 foreigner events in a row, still not best in the world. On the contrary, his achievements are remarkable in a game as volatile as Starcraft. soO is the only player with a winning record against him this entire year. Although I understand that the Swedish may have trouble accepting a Finnish phenom. You're babbling. On the contrary to what? Me saying foreigner tournament wins doesn't make the greatest player in the world? You believe that the winners of foreigner tournaments are whats important and that it is GSLs that doesn't matter? So your argument is that contrary to what I say you believe that the player that wins the most foreigner tournaments are the greatest player in the world? Or did not mean anything by the "On the contrary" and only used it because it sounds cool without knowing what it means? Never said his achivements are not remarkable, they are amazing I agree with that. Something being amazingly awesometastic doesn't automaticall make him the best player in the world, nor does me saying what I said mean that I don't think he's awesome. Interesting that the only thing you answered was meaningless babble followed by how my opinion is obviously colored because of my nationality... Please if you are going to reply try to put more effort into it than calling me out for being Swedish like there is something wrong with that. For the record Finland is basically Sweden, just as cool but weirder language, if anything I cheer for him harder because he is nordic. (Note that this absolutely irrelevent to the argument of if a player is the best in the world or not, my nationality is not a valid argument in any direction) Edit: Just to be thourough, his win record is pretty irrelevant since the only time he has played against the best players in the world was one tournament. Very possible Neeb had a similar score last year, was he the best player in the world. Hardly. You misjudge me sir, I mean no disrespect. It is much like us Australians have a rivalry with New Zealand, I would expect a similar nation wars rivalry between your countries. Regarding my use of the phrase 'on the contrary', on the contrary to your beliefs I do in fact know its meaning and how to use it. I do however agree that it sounds cool and will take that as a compliment. I was saying on the contrary to your entire argument that Serrals achievements are not worth mentioning in the 'best player's discussions - of course they are, they are regarded as premier tournaments for a reason. His GSL win in particular was against the world's best players and I don't buy the 'oh they don't care about it' argument with a prize pool like that, it's essentially the mini-Blizzcon. I see that you've backtracked your stance a little bit, but I think you can open your mind a little further and see that these tournaments are filled with people who have given their careers and lives to this game, and discrediting the entire foreign scene and then passing off their achievements against both foreign and Korean competition as essentially meaningless could be construed as insulting. Sorry for coming off as condescending, however your arguments are to my eyes skewed and many times illogical. They don't make sense. So you think the best player in the world shouldn't be the player with the highest skill in the game, that comes across quite clearly. You think that how the best player in the world is defined should also take into consideration weaker players feelings? Of course Serral is the best player in the world, of course the matches against other foreigners count because saying otherwise would be insulting those foreign players and they would be... sad? I mean seriously what does their feelings have to do with if someone is the best player in the world or not. The top korean pros are more skilled the top foreign player and that is a fact, just look at the map scores, thats why the best player in the world is not the one that wins the most against the weaker players but the one that wins the most against the best players in the world. Feel free to disagree. Serrals mapscore(according to aligulac compared to korean blizzcon players) Serral 3-3 Maru Serral 1-2 TYSerral 3-4 ClassicSerral 4-3 Stats Serral 5-1 Zest Serral 2-2 Rogue Serral 3-6 DarkSerral 21-21 Korean blizzcon players Serral is awesome but your bold claim earlier does not seem to be backed up the facts(aligulac). I have not backtracked at all, all I've said from the start is that Serral is not best in the world and he wouldn't be close to considered best in the world even if all three different GSLs had different winners. If Serral crushed it at Blizzcon I would be really happy I love his play (even though I love Marus play more xD) but however you cut it its too early to raise him to the skies the way you do every chance you get. Serral has his chance to prove he is the best and we will see how it goes, until then maybe stick to the facts. Hi Shuffleblade, Just so you know, Aligulac is pretty powerful and you can use it to filter results - that'll let you exclude the 2013-2017 results that you may consider not particularly relevant to the 'who is the best player of 2018' argument. Feel free to disagree though, I know my method might seem a bit illogical to you. Sorry if that came off condescending. Yeah, thanks for pointing that out, was a stupid mistake. Glad you found something you could point out since you seem unable to comment on anything besides the factual mistake. Anyway, no point continuing this. I'm hype for Blizzcon, Maru, Serral and TY especially. Hope for great games, lots of views and wild discussions on TL. Since the factual stuff seems important, I think I'll comment on this reply thread. Sorting by vs Koreans, Maru is 38-19 since last BlizzCon, while Serral is 13-5. Serral has a higher win rate vs Koreans than Maru, though he has played fewer matches. Serral also have the higher win rate in games (60% vs 59%). Again, fewer games played (52 vs 182). If we only count Koreans that have qualified for the global finals we get: 7-2 in matches and 17-12 in games for Serral. 14-9 in matches and 53-43 in games. Serral has a higher win rate in both matches and in games. + Show Spoiler + This is my count for the win rate vs the global finalist Koreans.
4 1 3 3 0 0 2 2 2
3 0 1 1 3 3 0 1 0
www w l l w w w
1 3 4 4 1 4 4 3 1 4 4 4 3 2 3 1 2 0 0 2 2 0 1
3 0 3 1 3 0 1 2 3 2 2 3 2 3 2 2 1 2 3 0 3 2 0
l www l www l ww w w l w l w l l w l l w I get the impression that most people think Maru is the best. Just looking at the win rates, Serral has a higher win rate overall, a higher win rate vs Koreans, a higher win rate vs the global finalists and Serral is leading the head-to-head vs Maru (2-1 in matches, 3-3 in games) since the last BlizzCon. Those are facts. Use the facts as you will, but you can't change them. I could not find a single way to make Maru seem superior, other than looking at win rates vs specific players (whic is totally arbitrary). Important to note: I think that Maru is the better player, but Serral is VERY good as well. I saw 4 birds today, all of them being hawks, therefor every bird is a hawk. Let's ignore the obvious generalisation fail, but I would suggest to take low sample statistics with a big grain of salw ;-)
not to mention he cherry-picked his "statistics" to fit his agenda.
Look only at offline-matches and suddenly Maru has the better winrate.
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On October 20 2018 02:56 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 02:42 11cc wrote:On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:On October 19 2018 23:50 youngjiddle wrote:
Korean fanboys will forever be cheering against foreigners.
There is some weird, psychology of self loathing people have towards their own region's players here on TL, maybe because people have become disappointed by foreigners lose to Koreans so many times. Maybe because they are tired of people saying "we'll beat the Koreans this time" and it never happens.
Serral will prove everyone wrong, hopefully. Thank you, region lock. I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans: -It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms -Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player -4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral. Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) Those arguments don't make much sense though. - Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns. If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game. - You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him. - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect. - lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. Who argued that? To make a hyperbole in the other direction, it annoys me that some Korean elitists seem to think that just participating in GSL makes you WCS champion material. GSL is harder than WCS, sure but they're not lightyears apart. You did. "lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol)" Maybe you didn't mean to, but it sounded to me like you were opposing the idea of GSL being "in the big leagues". And you used two of the biggest upsets ever to make an example of that. My point was that Serral does not compete in the most difficult field. You seem to agree with this idea but keep dodging around it.
I'm not the guy who said that (sorry if I was butting in), but that quote seems fine to me. Those upsets don't prove that WCS is equal to GSL, but that good WCS players are atleast somewhat competitive in the GSL.
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On October 20 2018 03:07 11cc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 02:56 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 02:42 11cc wrote:On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:On October 19 2018 23:50 youngjiddle wrote:
Korean fanboys will forever be cheering against foreigners.
There is some weird, psychology of self loathing people have towards their own region's players here on TL, maybe because people have become disappointed by foreigners lose to Koreans so many times. Maybe because they are tired of people saying "we'll beat the Koreans this time" and it never happens.
Serral will prove everyone wrong, hopefully. Thank you, region lock. I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans: -It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms -Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player -4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral. Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) Those arguments don't make much sense though. - Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns. If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game. - You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him. - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect. - lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. Who argued that? To make a hyperbole in the other direction, it annoys me that some Korean elitists seem to think that just participating in GSL makes you WCS champion material. GSL is harder than WCS, sure but they're not lightyears apart. You did. "lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol)" Maybe you didn't mean to, but it sounded to me like you were opposing the idea of GSL being "in the big leagues". And you used two of the biggest upsets ever to make an example of that. My point was that Serral does not compete in the most difficult field. You seem to agree with this idea but keep dodging around it. I'm not the guy who said that (sorry if I was butting in), but that quote seems fine to me. Those upsets don't prove that WCS is equal to GSL, but that good WCS players are also atleast somewhat competitive in the GSL.
Yh sorry about that lol.
I agree that good WCS players are competitive in GSL. I'm just trying to say that GSL is the tougher league. I didn't even say to what extent I think it is (I'm not really sure tbh). Where WCS is compared to GSL would be an interesting discussion.
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On October 20 2018 02:56 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 02:42 11cc wrote:On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:On October 19 2018 23:50 youngjiddle wrote:
Korean fanboys will forever be cheering against foreigners.
There is some weird, psychology of self loathing people have towards their own region's players here on TL, maybe because people have become disappointed by foreigners lose to Koreans so many times. Maybe because they are tired of people saying "we'll beat the Koreans this time" and it never happens.
Serral will prove everyone wrong, hopefully. Thank you, region lock. I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans: -It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms -Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player -4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral. Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) Those arguments don't make much sense though. - Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns. If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game. - You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him. - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect. - lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. Who argued that? To make a hyperbole in the other direction, it annoys me that some Korean elitists seem to think that just participating in GSL makes you WCS champion material. GSL is harder than WCS, sure but they're not lightyears apart. You did. EDIT: Apologies it was youngjiddle you said this not you.
No I didn't. The conversation wasn't about GSL having the best players.. it was about the format which gsl was. The format of GSL does not make it any hard or skill intensive than a weekend/weeklong tournement just because players have more time in between matches.
In fact, I would argue a week long tournament is MUCH harder, and requires more skill than a GSL, match every week format. On the fly adjustments, memory of build orders, memory of players... all skills that put sole responsibility on the player's skills and knowledge, not some team they can go to for advice.
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On October 20 2018 03:30 youngjiddle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 02:56 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 02:42 11cc wrote:On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:On October 19 2018 23:50 youngjiddle wrote:
Korean fanboys will forever be cheering against foreigners.
There is some weird, psychology of self loathing people have towards their own region's players here on TL, maybe because people have become disappointed by foreigners lose to Koreans so many times. Maybe because they are tired of people saying "we'll beat the Koreans this time" and it never happens.
Serral will prove everyone wrong, hopefully. Thank you, region lock. I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans: -It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms -Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player -4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral. Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) Those arguments don't make much sense though. - Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns. If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game. - You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him. - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect. - lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. Who argued that? To make a hyperbole in the other direction, it annoys me that some Korean elitists seem to think that just participating in GSL makes you WCS champion material. GSL is harder than WCS, sure but they're not lightyears apart. You did. EDIT: Apologies it was youngjiddle you said this not you. No I didn't. The conversation wasn't about GSL having the best players.. it was about the format which gsl was. The format of GSL does not make it any hard or skill intensive than a weekend/weeklong tournement just because players have more time in between matches. In fact, I would argue a week long tournament is MUCH harder, and requires more skill than a GSL, match every week format. On the fly adjustments, memory of build orders, memory of players... all skills that put sole responsibility on the player's skills and knowledge, not some team they can go to for advice.
The whole arguement was the shock and awe that people call wcs the minor leagues relative to code s. The format is just one minor reason that its harder..since all of your matches essentially will be well prepared for by your opponent. The main and SUPER obvious reason its harder is the players. Your counter was "woahwoah neeb and scarlett both made the playoffs hows it so hard". You sold the point for the opposition of your arguement right there tho. Neeb and scarlett are probably the 2nd and 3rd 4th w lambo best foreigners...and out of a shit load of tries this was their best result in code s. So to win wcs you have to worry about 3 to 4 people who managed to mostly fail to do anything outside of 1 playoff run each ij code s. Thats what makes it the minor leagues
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On October 20 2018 00:38 Rodya wrote:
I don't hate foreigners: Scarlett is possibly my favorite player and I also like Reynor and Special. These players have never been overhyped and they've never had screaching fanboys that defy reason.
On August 14 2018 11:12 Rodya wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2018 01:57 yht9657 wrote:
Can't wait for Impact to crush some foreign dreams, guy's just Way too underrated. If he stops his offline choking record he may even beat Maru on a good day. Yeah Impact is Way underrated and Reynor is Way overhyped. Reynor went 2-2 versus Classic and gets beat up at foreigner events consistently. I'M Sorry guys but his expected placement in this group is fourth. I could see him being Neeb though, but that's a lot different than beating Impact.]
On August 15 2018 02:50 Rodya wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2018 14:17 Jeremiah1 wrote:
But im not underestimating Impact at all, Just because a vet. is good doesnt mean Reynor doesnt have a chance. Infact if anything I think we will see Impatch vs Reynor twice. You are saying that Reynor is likely to win because he went 2-2 versus Classic. Reynor gets continually owned at foreigner events. He has no results.
On August 11 2018 21:30 Rodya wrote:
Reynor gets trashed at events against foreigners without fail, Zest makes GSL finals.
The foreigner bias of some of you is so strong that it makes me laugh in real life.
shoutout to Torrefy
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shit load of tries being the few tries they get per year? probably for this last year maximum?
travelling to korea is a big and brave commitment on their part, they have to skip some of the regional events to do so,
i believe sasha paid in points (ultimately contributing to her absence from blizzcon this year) to do so.
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On October 20 2018 03:41 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 00:38 Rodya wrote:
I don't hate foreigners: Scarlett is possibly my favorite player and I also like Reynor and Special. These players have never been overhyped and they've never had screaching fanboys that defy reason. Show nested quote +On August 14 2018 11:12 Rodya wrote:On August 14 2018 01:57 yht9657 wrote:
Can't wait for Impact to crush some foreign dreams, guy's just Way too underrated. If he stops his offline choking record he may even beat Maru on a good day. Yeah Impact is Way underrated and Reynor is Way overhyped. Reynor went 2-2 versus Classic and gets beat up at foreigner events consistently. I'M Sorry guys but his expected placement in this group is fourth. I could see him being Neeb though, but that's a lot different than beating Impact.] Show nested quote +On August 15 2018 02:50 Rodya wrote:On August 14 2018 14:17 Jeremiah1 wrote:
But im not underestimating Impact at all, Just because a vet. is good doesnt mean Reynor doesnt have a chance. Infact if anything I think we will see Impatch vs Reynor twice. You are saying that Reynor is likely to win because he went 2-2 versus Classic. Reynor gets continually owned at foreigner events. He has no results. Show nested quote +On August 11 2018 21:30 Rodya wrote:
Reynor gets trashed at events against foreigners without fail, Zest makes GSL finals.
The foreigner bias of some of you is so strong that it makes me laugh in real life. shoutout to Torrefy
+1
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On October 20 2018 03:46 nanaoei wrote:
shit load of tries being the few tries they get per year? probably for this last year maximum?
travelling to korea is a big and brave commitment on their part, they have to skip some of the regional events to do so,
i believe sasha paid in points (ultimately contributing to her absence from blizzcon this year) to do so.
Scarlett has made a ton of attempts. Not sure how many neeb has...or major or noregret or zanster etc..point is in modern time none of them proved to be a ro16 mainstay. She did and it is a big leap to go stay in korea i understand that. Have to give a ton of respect to people who knowingly play a harder field to get better. It sucks she didnt make blizzcon. Just like it sucks that soo and innovation and solar and gumiho (all proven beasts from code s) didnt make it. Id put money on her chances at blizzcon above the majority of players who did qualify from wcs (obviously the same for the rest of the players i mentioned).
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We don't have enough data to know for sure if Serral can consistently hang with the best Koreans but with what he has shown us this year.. Let's just say this is the first time I wouldn't be shocked if a foreigner would win blizzcon. Serral that is. Obviously.
Let it rain gifs
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On October 20 2018 03:30 youngjiddle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 02:56 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 02:42 11cc wrote:On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:On October 19 2018 23:50 youngjiddle wrote:
Korean fanboys will forever be cheering against foreigners.
There is some weird, psychology of self loathing people have towards their own region's players here on TL, maybe because people have become disappointed by foreigners lose to Koreans so many times. Maybe because they are tired of people saying "we'll beat the Koreans this time" and it never happens.
Serral will prove everyone wrong, hopefully. Thank you, region lock. I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans: -It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms -Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player -4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral. Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) Those arguments don't make much sense though. - Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns. If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game. - You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him. - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect. - lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. Who argued that? To make a hyperbole in the other direction, it annoys me that some Korean elitists seem to think that just participating in GSL makes you WCS champion material. GSL is harder than WCS, sure but they're not lightyears apart. You did. EDIT: Apologies it was youngjiddle you said this not you. No I didn't. The conversation wasn't about GSL having the best players.. it was about the format which gsl was. The format of GSL does not make it any hard or skill intensive than a weekend/weeklong tournement just because players have more time in between matches. In fact, I would argue a week long tournament is MUCH harder, and requires more skill than a GSL, match every week format. On the fly adjustments, memory of build orders, memory of players... all skills that put sole responsibility on the player's skills and knowledge, not some team they can go to for advice.
The conversation was about someone refering to WCS as "minor leagues" and Serral not playing in the "the big leagues". And some discussion of whether he's better than TY, Rogue, Stats, Classic etc. So I don't think it was purely about format.
And you really think weekenders are more skill intensive than starleagues? I mean you can believe whatever you want, but I'm not gonna take you seriously if you ignore the fact that preperation reduces volatility and increases of general skill level of matches.
There are many players who do well almost exclusively in weekenders (sOs, Taeja, Rogue), however almost every player that does amazing in starleagues can also win weekenders (INno, Zest, Mvp, soO). Maru is the only obvious exception there.
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Canada8990 Posts
On October 20 2018 02:54 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:On October 19 2018 23:50 youngjiddle wrote:
Korean fanboys will forever be cheering against foreigners.
There is some weird, psychology of self loathing people have towards their own region's players here on TL, maybe because people have become disappointed by foreigners lose to Koreans so many times. Maybe because they are tired of people saying "we'll beat the Koreans this time" and it never happens.
Serral will prove everyone wrong, hopefully. Thank you, region lock. I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans: -It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms -Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player -4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral. Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) Those arguments don't make much sense though. - Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns. If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game. - You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him. - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect. - lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. I really want Serral to win Blizzcon so I can continue to read the mental gymnastics of TLers trying to undermine what would have been the best performance of any sc2 player in the history of the game
"Blizzard killed the game with region locking, it's a dead game Kespa player would have destroyed Serral easy"
Also jet lag, zerg op and weekender don't matter.
With that said I don't think he will win either but lets wait and see.
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Even though I'm a Korean fanboy in most cases, gotta cheer for the home team in this instance, let's go Joona!
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EPT
