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On October 19 2018 23:20 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2018 23:08 DomeGetta wrote:On October 19 2018 22:47 Geo.Rion wrote:
Im so anxious about Serral s group stage. I mean he has a huge red X mark on his head and everyone aspires to be the one who finally breaks his winning streak. And in a bo3 format group stage it doesnt take that much to do it. That group is not easy by any means. Yah his zvp seems super strong but sos is an absolute nightmare for anyone at blizzcon..zest has proven that he can be a nightmare as well but its hit or miss.. should be a fun group to watch. Group seems simple tbh. sOs/Serral. No way Zest gets through. Especially given his blizzcon track record
I have myself thought “No way Zest gets through” in each round of every GSL this year. He has proven me wrong uncomfortably often...
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Nice article.
Funny to ready that victory at blizzcons overshadows all victories whereas for Serral and Maru it would be Losing at Blizzcon that would overshadow all victories :b
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On October 20 2018 05:08 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 03:30 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 02:56 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 02:42 11cc wrote:On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:On October 19 2018 23:50 youngjiddle wrote:
Korean fanboys will forever be cheering against foreigners.
There is some weird, psychology of self loathing people have towards their own region's players here on TL, maybe because people have become disappointed by foreigners lose to Koreans so many times. Maybe because they are tired of people saying "we'll beat the Koreans this time" and it never happens.
Serral will prove everyone wrong, hopefully. Thank you, region lock. I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans: -It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms -Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player -4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral. Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) Those arguments don't make much sense though. - Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns. If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game. - You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him. - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect. - lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. Who argued that? To make a hyperbole in the other direction, it annoys me that some Korean elitists seem to think that just participating in GSL makes you WCS champion material. GSL is harder than WCS, sure but they're not lightyears apart. You did. EDIT: Apologies it was youngjiddle you said this not you. No I didn't. The conversation wasn't about GSL having the best players.. it was about the format which gsl was. The format of GSL does not make it any hard or skill intensive than a weekend/weeklong tournement just because players have more time in between matches. In fact, I would argue a week long tournament is MUCH harder, and requires more skill than a GSL, match every week format. On the fly adjustments, memory of build orders, memory of players... all skills that put sole responsibility on the player's skills and knowledge, not some team they can go to for advice. The conversation was about someone refering to WCS as "minor leagues" and Serral not playing in the "the big leagues". And some discussion of whether he's better than TY, Rogue, Stats, Classic etc. So I don't think it was purely about format. And you really think weekenders are more skill intensive than starleagues? I mean you can believe whatever you want, but I'm not gonna take you seriously if you ignore the fact that preperation reduces volatility and increases of general skill level of matches. There are many players who do well almost exclusively in weekenders (sOs, Taeja, Rogue), however almost every player that does amazing in starleagues can also win weekenders (INno, Zest, Mvp, soO). Maru is the only obvious exception there.
I have to agree with your statement regarding starleagues requiring more skill than weekenders. As an admitted bigger fan of the foreign scene than the Korean scene, I think it's really hard to deny that starleagues allow for the most skill potential out of the 2 general formats being discussed without using some serious mental gymnastics.
One could argue that weekenders require players to excel in different categories that starleagues don't, like endurance and playing well in sub-optimal conditions, but I don't think those skills come anywhere close to the amount of skill that goes into even just the preparation factor of the starleague format. In the Starleague format, you have a week to sometimes 2 weeks to prepare for a match which allows a player to theorycraft not only an entire match up, but also an entire player.
This allows builds to be more developed and nuanced than a weekender could ever hope for because the builds, strategies, and counters used have been refined for not only a specific match up but also a specific player. You have to determine the best ways to combat a player's favorite strategies on a particular map, the best ways to combat how said player might combat your strategies that you prepared specifically for them, how to best hide your builds based on your opponent's specific scouting patterns, how to change up your scouting patterns to best avoid getting your scouting denied, and so much more. A weekender just can't compare with that level of theorycrafting and the skill that goes into it, and I have hardly scratched the surface of this aspect of the starleague format in my very simplified summary of it in this comment. Starleagues just have more skill potential than a weekender does.
That's not to say that weekenders don't require a significant amount of skill to compete in and win, but it does help explain why so many people see the GSL as the most prestigious tournament in the world beyond the "we like Koreans" Straw Man that so many like to perpetuate.
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you just describe why losing proleague was a major issue of the starcraft scene, even in 2016 watching sniper builds was so much fun
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On October 20 2018 07:18 Argonauta wrote:
you just describe why losing proleague was a major issue of the starcraft scene, even in 2016 watching sniper builds was so much fun
Even proleague's environment was entirely unique because players prepared for one game against one opponent on one map usually. Some very creative one and done builds showed up in proleague.
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On October 20 2018 02:59 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 02:54 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:On October 19 2018 23:50 youngjiddle wrote:
Korean fanboys will forever be cheering against foreigners.
There is some weird, psychology of self loathing people have towards their own region's players here on TL, maybe because people have become disappointed by foreigners lose to Koreans so many times. Maybe because they are tired of people saying "we'll beat the Koreans this time" and it never happens.
Serral will prove everyone wrong, hopefully. Thank you, region lock. I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans: -It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms -Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player -4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral. Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) Those arguments don't make much sense though. - Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns. If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game. - You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him. - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect. - lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. I really want Serral to win Blizzcon so I can continue to read the mental gymnastics of TLers trying to undermine what would have been the best performance of any sc2 player in the history of the game winning blizzcon would be the best performance of any sc2 player ever!?
winning every single tournament you enter without dropping a series for 9 moths straight, including 4 WCS, a Korean event then topping it off with winning the biggest tournament of the year, yes, that would be unprecedented and the best performance in SC2 history. And 99.99% of people would agree with that, but there are gonna be like 5-6 TL members explaining that "achttthuallly, Serral s performance is not that impressive if you take into consideration...." Im looking forward for that
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I would argue that weekend tournaments is a better judge of your overall skill compared to tournament where you can prepare for your opponent for 2 weeks.
The preparation phase can be done by your coach, your team or other players - identifying things to exploit in your opponents builds. This gives lesser players with better support an unfair advantage over better players with lesser support.
In an weekend tournament it is only your own skill that determines the outcome.
Winning against an opponent without any special preparation is more impressive than winning over an opponent that you have prepared extensively for.
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France12911 Posts
On October 20 2018 17:12 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 02:59 Charoisaur wrote:On October 20 2018 02:54 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:On October 19 2018 23:50 youngjiddle wrote:
Korean fanboys will forever be cheering against foreigners.
There is some weird, psychology of self loathing people have towards their own region's players here on TL, maybe because people have become disappointed by foreigners lose to Koreans so many times. Maybe because they are tired of people saying "we'll beat the Koreans this time" and it never happens.
Serral will prove everyone wrong, hopefully. Thank you, region lock. I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans: -It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms -Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player -4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral. Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) Those arguments don't make much sense though. - Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns. If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game. - You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him. - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect. - lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. I really want Serral to win Blizzcon so I can continue to read the mental gymnastics of TLers trying to undermine what would have been the best performance of any sc2 player in the history of the game winning blizzcon would be the best performance of any sc2 player ever!? winning every single tournament you enter without dropping a series for 9 moths straight, including 4 WCS, a Korean event then topping it off with winning the biggest tournament of the year, yes, that would be unprecedented and the best performance in SC2 history. And 99.99% of people would agree with that, but there are gonna be like 5-6 TL members explaining that "achttthuallly, Serral s performance is not that impressive if you take into consideration...." Im looking forward for that
Of course that’s unprecedented, wanna know why?
Region lock.
It’s not like he entered GSL.
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On October 20 2018 17:12 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 02:59 Charoisaur wrote:On October 20 2018 02:54 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:On October 19 2018 23:50 youngjiddle wrote:
Korean fanboys will forever be cheering against foreigners.
There is some weird, psychology of self loathing people have towards their own region's players here on TL, maybe because people have become disappointed by foreigners lose to Koreans so many times. Maybe because they are tired of people saying "we'll beat the Koreans this time" and it never happens.
Serral will prove everyone wrong, hopefully. Thank you, region lock. I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans: -It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms -Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player -4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral. Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) Those arguments don't make much sense though. - Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns. If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game. - You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him. - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect. - lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. I really want Serral to win Blizzcon so I can continue to read the mental gymnastics of TLers trying to undermine what would have been the best performance of any sc2 player in the history of the game winning blizzcon would be the best performance of any sc2 player ever!? winning every single tournament you enter without dropping a series for 9 moths straight, including 4 WCS, a Korean event then topping it off with winning the biggest tournament of the year, yes, that would be unprecedented and the best performance in SC2 history. And 99.99% of people would agree with that, but there are gonna be like 5-6 TL members explaining that "achttthuallly, Serral s performance is not that impressive if you take into consideration...." Im looking forward for that
Serral won IEM Katowice and WESG? Wow that's impressive
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its great to see how some TLnet residents came to this specific thread for the one purpose only - shit on Serral. Like there is/was not enough other threads where this has been done already a million times.
Thanks a lot to the writers for the awesome write-up tho.
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On October 20 2018 18:19 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 17:12 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 02:59 Charoisaur wrote:On October 20 2018 02:54 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:On October 19 2018 23:50 youngjiddle wrote:
Korean fanboys will forever be cheering against foreigners.
There is some weird, psychology of self loathing people have towards their own region's players here on TL, maybe because people have become disappointed by foreigners lose to Koreans so many times. Maybe because they are tired of people saying "we'll beat the Koreans this time" and it never happens.
Serral will prove everyone wrong, hopefully. Thank you, region lock. I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans: -It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms -Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player -4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral. Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) Those arguments don't make much sense though. - Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns. If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game. - You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him. - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect. - lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. I really want Serral to win Blizzcon so I can continue to read the mental gymnastics of TLers trying to undermine what would have been the best performance of any sc2 player in the history of the game winning blizzcon would be the best performance of any sc2 player ever!? winning every single tournament you enter without dropping a series for 9 moths straight, including 4 WCS, a Korean event then topping it off with winning the biggest tournament of the year, yes, that would be unprecedented and the best performance in SC2 history. And 99.99% of people would agree with that, but there are gonna be like 5-6 TL members explaining that "achttthuallly, Serral s performance is not that impressive if you take into consideration...." Im looking forward for that Serral won IEM Katowice and WESG? Wow that's impressive
Well thank you for being such a perfect illustration of my point.
The last time Serral lost a series was in march, as you so cleverly pointed out. Blizzcon is pretty much the last premier tournament this season, so that means if Serral would win the finals in November than he would have went undefeated starting from march 2018 till the end of the season, that is november/december. Tehnically he might still enter a smaller tournament in december and lose, so fine, let s say 8 months?
Happy? no, ofcourse not, and you re never gonna be.
And btw im not saying im sure Serral is gonna win, or he s the nr1 favorite to win it. But IF he does win...
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On October 20 2018 22:03 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 18:19 Charoisaur wrote:On October 20 2018 17:12 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 02:59 Charoisaur wrote:On October 20 2018 02:54 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:
[quote]
I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon
This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans:
-It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms
-Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player
-4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS
This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral.
Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) Those arguments don't make much sense though. - Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns. If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game. - You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him. - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect. - lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. I really want Serral to win Blizzcon so I can continue to read the mental gymnastics of TLers trying to undermine what would have been the best performance of any sc2 player in the history of the game winning blizzcon would be the best performance of any sc2 player ever!? winning every single tournament you enter without dropping a series for 9 moths straight, including 4 WCS, a Korean event then topping it off with winning the biggest tournament of the year, yes, that would be unprecedented and the best performance in SC2 history. And 99.99% of people would agree with that, but there are gonna be like 5-6 TL members explaining that "achttthuallly, Serral s performance is not that impressive if you take into consideration...." Im looking forward for that Serral won IEM Katowice and WESG? Wow that's impressive Well thank you for being such a perfect illustration of my point. The last time Serral lost a series was in march, as you so cleverly pointed out. Blizzcon is pretty much the last premier tournament this season, so that means if Serral would win the finals in November than he would have went undefeated starting from march 2018 till the end of the season, that is november/december. Tehnically he might still enter a smaller tournament in december and lose, so fine, let s say 8 months? Happy? no, ofcourse not, and you re never gonna be.
winning every single tournament you enter without dropping a series for 9 moths straight, including 4 WCS
you said "winning every single tournament for 9 months straight" includes 4 WCS wins so I assumed you started with the first WCS win in January with the streak.
If you say incorrect statements I will call you out for it, you don't have to make up alternative facts to hype up Serral.
And to your point that it would be the most impressive performance ever... that's a very bold claim in a year where there has only been 1 GSL winner - I think you're the one doing mental gymnastics here.
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France12911 Posts
Plus who knows what would have happened if everyone could participate in WCS events.
I think Serral is great and I’d put him as a favorite to win BlizzCon since he is in top form and Zerg performs well atm, but the hype is a bit too much for some people.
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On October 20 2018 22:22 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 22:03 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 18:19 Charoisaur wrote:On October 20 2018 17:12 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 02:59 Charoisaur wrote:On October 20 2018 02:54 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:
[quote]
Those arguments don't make much sense though.
- Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns.
If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game.
- You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him.
- I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect.
- lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. I really want Serral to win Blizzcon so I can continue to read the mental gymnastics of TLers trying to undermine what would have been the best performance of any sc2 player in the history of the game winning blizzcon would be the best performance of any sc2 player ever!? winning every single tournament you enter without dropping a series for 9 moths straight, including 4 WCS, a Korean event then topping it off with winning the biggest tournament of the year, yes, that would be unprecedented and the best performance in SC2 history. And 99.99% of people would agree with that, but there are gonna be like 5-6 TL members explaining that "achttthuallly, Serral s performance is not that impressive if you take into consideration...." Im looking forward for that Serral won IEM Katowice and WESG? Wow that's impressive Well thank you for being such a perfect illustration of my point. The last time Serral lost a series was in march, as you so cleverly pointed out. Blizzcon is pretty much the last premier tournament this season, so that means if Serral would win the finals in November than he would have went undefeated starting from march 2018 till the end of the season, that is november/december. Tehnically he might still enter a smaller tournament in december and lose, so fine, let s say 8 months? Happy? no, ofcourse not, and you re never gonna be. Show nested quote +winning every single tournament you enter without dropping a series for 9 moths straight, including 4 WCS you said "winning every single tournament for 9 months straight" includes 4 WCS wins so I assumed you started with the first WCS win in January with the streak. If you say incorrect statements I will call you out for it, you don't have to make up alternative facts to hype up Serral. And to your point that it would be the most impressive performance ever... that's a very bold claim in a year where there has only been 1 GSL winner - I think you're the one doing mental gymnastics here.
You re completely and utterly beyond hope. Nitpick all you want, there hasnt been a single player with this long a winstreak, and if Serral wins in Novemer, it will be the best performance ever in the history of SC2. You, and the 3 others here who keep discrediting him will do it regardless of circumstances.
Serral could switch to random, go to korea, win the next GSL from a laptop, and you would still find a way to complain how his performance is lackluster since he had an easy bracket and the truly skilled Korean players were slumping or not playing anymore, so his GSL win doesnt count as much as from previous seasons
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On October 20 2018 23:52 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 22:22 Charoisaur wrote:On October 20 2018 22:03 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 18:19 Charoisaur wrote:On October 20 2018 17:12 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 02:59 Charoisaur wrote:On October 20 2018 02:54 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:
[quote]
he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. I really want Serral to win Blizzcon so I can continue to read the mental gymnastics of TLers trying to undermine what would have been the best performance of any sc2 player in the history of the game winning blizzcon would be the best performance of any sc2 player ever!? winning every single tournament you enter without dropping a series for 9 moths straight, including 4 WCS, a Korean event then topping it off with winning the biggest tournament of the year, yes, that would be unprecedented and the best performance in SC2 history. And 99.99% of people would agree with that, but there are gonna be like 5-6 TL members explaining that "achttthuallly, Serral s performance is not that impressive if you take into consideration...." Im looking forward for that Serral won IEM Katowice and WESG? Wow that's impressive Well thank you for being such a perfect illustration of my point. The last time Serral lost a series was in march, as you so cleverly pointed out. Blizzcon is pretty much the last premier tournament this season, so that means if Serral would win the finals in November than he would have went undefeated starting from march 2018 till the end of the season, that is november/december. Tehnically he might still enter a smaller tournament in december and lose, so fine, let s say 8 months? Happy? no, ofcourse not, and you re never gonna be. winning every single tournament you enter without dropping a series for 9 moths straight, including 4 WCS you said "winning every single tournament for 9 months straight" includes 4 WCS wins so I assumed you started with the first WCS win in January with the streak. If you say incorrect statements I will call you out for it, you don't have to make up alternative facts to hype up Serral. And to your point that it would be the most impressive performance ever... that's a very bold claim in a year where there has only been 1 GSL winner - I think you're the one doing mental gymnastics here. You re completely and utterly beyond hope. Nitpick all you want, there hasnt been a single player with this long a winstreak, and if Serral wins in Novemer, it will be the best performance ever in the history of SC2. You, and the 3 others here who keep discrediting him will do it regardless of circumstances. Serral could switch to random, go to korea, win the next GSL from a laptop, and you would still find a way to complain how his performance is lackluster since he had an easy bracket and the truly skilled Korean players were slumping or not playing anymore, so his GSL win doesnt count as much as from previous seasons
If he had to play vs the absolute top of the competition in every tournament in this run there would be no doubt at all. He didn't have to though. Is it still a great feat? Absolutely, but you saying anyone who disagrees has to be anti serral biased to come to the conclusion that it might not be the sickest run ever, seems fairly biased to me as well 
This is similar to the taeja argument (though at least he had to battle some top pros), but yes the player field of the tournament you win actually matters a lot to evaluate the importance of said tournament and thus how impressive it is to win the tournament. WCS tournaments are not at the same prestige lvl compared to ones where koreans can compete in.
Serral would have won two tournaments with korean participation if he wins blizzcon, certainly great and enough to cement him as a top player (he might be already), but your "best run ever" statement would still be a hyperbole or at least not be obviously true.
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On October 20 2018 23:52 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 22:22 Charoisaur wrote:On October 20 2018 22:03 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 18:19 Charoisaur wrote:On October 20 2018 17:12 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 02:59 Charoisaur wrote:On October 20 2018 02:54 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:
[quote]
he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. I really want Serral to win Blizzcon so I can continue to read the mental gymnastics of TLers trying to undermine what would have been the best performance of any sc2 player in the history of the game winning blizzcon would be the best performance of any sc2 player ever!? winning every single tournament you enter without dropping a series for 9 moths straight, including 4 WCS, a Korean event then topping it off with winning the biggest tournament of the year, yes, that would be unprecedented and the best performance in SC2 history. And 99.99% of people would agree with that, but there are gonna be like 5-6 TL members explaining that "achttthuallly, Serral s performance is not that impressive if you take into consideration...." Im looking forward for that Serral won IEM Katowice and WESG? Wow that's impressive Well thank you for being such a perfect illustration of my point. The last time Serral lost a series was in march, as you so cleverly pointed out. Blizzcon is pretty much the last premier tournament this season, so that means if Serral would win the finals in November than he would have went undefeated starting from march 2018 till the end of the season, that is november/december. Tehnically he might still enter a smaller tournament in december and lose, so fine, let s say 8 months? Happy? no, ofcourse not, and you re never gonna be. winning every single tournament you enter without dropping a series for 9 moths straight, including 4 WCS you said "winning every single tournament for 9 months straight" includes 4 WCS wins so I assumed you started with the first WCS win in January with the streak. If you say incorrect statements I will call you out for it, you don't have to make up alternative facts to hype up Serral. And to your point that it would be the most impressive performance ever... that's a very bold claim in a year where there has only been 1 GSL winner - I think you're the one doing mental gymnastics here. if Serral wins in Novemer, it will be the best performance ever in the history of SC2. You, and the 3 others here who keep discrediting him will do it regardless of circumstances.
You can stop acting like everyone agrees with you when that's not the case.
Most people who follow the game closely realize that GSL is the highest form of competition and worth more than any other tournament win.
You and the 2 others who think WCS is as prestigious as GSL can keep claiming Serral is the best ever but 99% of people will disagree with you. (See? I can do the same)
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On October 20 2018 17:25 MockHamill wrote:
I would argue that weekend tournaments is a better judge of your overall skill compared to tournament where you can prepare for your opponent for 2 weeks.
How do explain why almost every legendary starleague player has also done extremly well in weekenders, but there are many players who can win weekenders but fail in starleagues?
Preperation gives the better players the advantage because they have the skill to study and engineer special builds for each opponent. It's harder to win GSL if you have any holes in your play, because opponents will find and exploit them. It also requires players to be consistant over weeks/months, instead of being on fire for 2 days and earning a trophy because of it.
Just think, can you imagine Has making the final of WCS Valencia if players had a week to prepare for each match?
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Canada2764 Posts
On October 20 2018 18:19 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 17:12 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 02:59 Charoisaur wrote:On October 20 2018 02:54 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:On October 19 2018 23:50 youngjiddle wrote:
Korean fanboys will forever be cheering against foreigners.
There is some weird, psychology of self loathing people have towards their own region's players here on TL, maybe because people have become disappointed by foreigners lose to Koreans so many times. Maybe because they are tired of people saying "we'll beat the Koreans this time" and it never happens.
Serral will prove everyone wrong, hopefully. Thank you, region lock. I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans: -It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms -Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player -4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral. Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) Those arguments don't make much sense though. - Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns. If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game. - You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him. - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect. - lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. I really want Serral to win Blizzcon so I can continue to read the mental gymnastics of TLers trying to undermine what would have been the best performance of any sc2 player in the history of the game winning blizzcon would be the best performance of any sc2 player ever!? winning every single tournament you enter without dropping a series for 9 moths straight, including 4 WCS, a Korean event then topping it off with winning the biggest tournament of the year, yes, that would be unprecedented and the best performance in SC2 history. And 99.99% of people would agree with that, but there are gonna be like 5-6 TL members explaining that "achttthuallly, Serral s performance is not that impressive if you take into consideration...." Im looking forward for that Serral won IEM Katowice and WESG? Wow that's impressive
Not sure if you did the math but WESG was in March, meaning that if he wins Blizzcon he'd have won every event for ~9 months straight. Presuming there's no big event in December.
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On October 21 2018 04:39 Soularion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2018 18:19 Charoisaur wrote:On October 20 2018 17:12 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 02:59 Charoisaur wrote:On October 20 2018 02:54 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 00:02 Terra1 wrote:
[quote]
I hope you're right. I want to believe that Serral can do it, at least reach the semis of Blizzcon
This is just what I think and see from the comments these fanboys post though but the fanboys want some factors here to tell that Serral can win vs the best Koreans:
-It should be in the GSL tournament, to show that even Serral will have a hard time to win vs them, especially in their good forms
-Weekend tournaments like GSL vs the World isn't counted because most of the players there didn't took the tournament seriously (I found it strange because Dark, who's crushing foreigners except for Elazer last year, got defeated by Serral 3-1, then by Innovation, both of them are either not serious or out of form). They want a fair advantage for each player
-4x WCS championship wins aren't as strong as 3x GSL championships because the intensity of GSL is far higher than WCS
This is why we see some comments in the power rank are not impressed with Serral being at #2 and they rate TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic a bit higher than Serral.
Serral can defeat Koreans but not all of the best. He did beat Classic and Zest (though both have sucky PvZs), Rogue and Impact (close I think in IEM) Those arguments don't make much sense though. - Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns. If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game. - You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him. - I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect. - lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. I really want Serral to win Blizzcon so I can continue to read the mental gymnastics of TLers trying to undermine what would have been the best performance of any sc2 player in the history of the game winning blizzcon would be the best performance of any sc2 player ever!? winning every single tournament you enter without dropping a series for 9 moths straight, including 4 WCS, a Korean event then topping it off with winning the biggest tournament of the year, yes, that would be unprecedented and the best performance in SC2 history. And 99.99% of people would agree with that, but there are gonna be like 5-6 TL members explaining that "achttthuallly, Serral s performance is not that impressive if you take into consideration...." Im looking forward for that Serral won IEM Katowice and WESG? Wow that's impressive Not sure if you did the math but WESG was in March, meaning that if he wins Blizzcon he'd have won every event for ~9 months straight. Presuming there's no big event in December.
but that streak includes 3 WCS wins, not 4 like he claimed. WCS Leipzig was in January.
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On October 21 2018 08:31 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2018 04:39 Soularion wrote:On October 20 2018 18:19 Charoisaur wrote:On October 20 2018 17:12 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 02:59 Charoisaur wrote:On October 20 2018 02:54 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 20 2018 02:17 Fango wrote:On October 20 2018 01:54 youngjiddle wrote:On October 20 2018 01:11 DomeGetta wrote:On October 20 2018 00:47 youngjiddle wrote:
[quote]
Those arguments don't make much sense though.
- Blaming the format is not an excuse for losing. If you're the best you should be able to win in a 1v1 game. Koreans used to come overseas and destroy in weekend tournaments. So now all the sudden Serral's wins don't mean as much because he played a week long tournament in Korea? So if serral failed at GSL vs the world, could I have blamed "jetlag" and "the format"? nah. no johns.
If you want to go to homestory and say hey, I lost because I think the format of playing on the next balance patch favored protoss at the time, then fine, that's completely different. I'm tired of people saying some prepared match format is the ONLY and TRUE way to determine someone's skill in the game.
- You could argue that Serral would be even better in the gsl style tournament. He plays a reactionary style extremely well, not a weird style that might sneak a weekend win. He could adjust to whatever weird builds are prepared against him.
- I don't see any good argument to say that those four players TY, Rogue, Stats and Classic are better than better than Serral. There just isn't enough data to show that GSL vs the world was a fluke, to say that Serral's WCS wins mean nothing, to say that serral would lose to them, ect.
- lastly, saying gsl players didn't take GSL vs the world "seriously" is korean fanboys making an embarrassing excuse for the poor performance of their favorite korean players vs. the one foreigner who actual won some games. You don't get to say what the korean's were thinking, that's a load of BS. he chose to stay in the minor leagues instead of manning up in the real gsl like a bunch of other "less hype" foreigners did. lmao. you claim gsl is the big leagues when scarlett gets ro8 and neeb goes to the semifinals and almost to go 3-1 up above TY (until neeb tilted lol). and you claim the gsl format is less volatile. The volatile group format gsl uses with bo3s is what got scarlett and reynor their good gsl runs. maybe instead of bashing serral for not wanting to play in GSL maybe realize that he doesn't want to live away from home for months? screw off with this "manning up" crap, that's pretty rude. Scarlett went deep in GSL once in (I believe) 7 consecutive attempts. And that was around the time she won IEM Pyeongchang so was actually really good. You can list as many upsets in GSL as you want, but you can't argue that it isn't the superior league in terms of skill, and that starleague format isn't a different animal to face. No one's saying Serral has to play there, he can do what he wants. But as long as he doesn't you have to admit he isn't playing in the hardest field. I really want Serral to win Blizzcon so I can continue to read the mental gymnastics of TLers trying to undermine what would have been the best performance of any sc2 player in the history of the game winning blizzcon would be the best performance of any sc2 player ever!? winning every single tournament you enter without dropping a series for 9 moths straight, including 4 WCS, a Korean event then topping it off with winning the biggest tournament of the year, yes, that would be unprecedented and the best performance in SC2 history. And 99.99% of people would agree with that, but there are gonna be like 5-6 TL members explaining that "achttthuallly, Serral s performance is not that impressive if you take into consideration...." Im looking forward for that Serral won IEM Katowice and WESG? Wow that's impressive Not sure if you did the math but WESG was in March, meaning that if he wins Blizzcon he'd have won every event for ~9 months straight. Presuming there's no big event in December. but that streak includes 3 WCS wins, not 4 like he claimed. WCS Leipzig was in January.
That's just being nitpickey to be fair. The idea of him winning every event he entered for 9 months straight is more of the point than 4>3 WCS.
Of course the critism there is that during those 9 months he only entered 1-2 events with koreans/other top 10 players in.
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