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Blizzard started pulling ressources from SC2 during HOTS i think. The advertising, hype building of LOTV was no where near the one of HOTS.
Blizzard is probably the greediest game studio at the moment, with WoW "10 buck a month and gazillion expansions", Overwatch costing 40e when it's worth 25 max, for instance. Of course there weren't gonna keep SC2 on life support forever.
But it was a truly stupid move to screw up the game they had in a situation of monopoly. I think that both HOTS and LOTV were huge failure that applied band aid after band aid over the flaws of WOL, with no regard whatsoever for people playing 6-10 hours a week (the meat of the community).
The only way to react to that is with your wallet. Overwatch is a fun game, the warcraft movie is probably a fun movie, but there's no way in hell i'm giving blizzard any money blindly again.
The failure of SC2 has nothing to do with genre, it has nothing to do with MOBA.
It has to do with a year of unadressed BL/infestor, 5 years of unadressed heavy protoss reliance on forcefields or a year of unadressed SH campfest.
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On December 07 2016 01:09 paralleluniverse wrote:
This is sad.
However, can someone explain the obsession with match-fixing? I highly doubt that SC2 is dying because of a few cases of match-fixing many years ago. And as for solutions to solving match-fixing, it does not seriously seem that much can be done about it. Are we going to tap their phones?
This is the main reason that SPL disappeared because it was basically a real tv show that needed large audience and involved huge sponsors (samsung, skt, kt, cj entus, jin air are huge companies) match fixing scandals, starting with sAviOr totally damaged both the audience and the image of SPL.
you might be interested in reading this article
And you'll see that this first scandal was devastatting for sc audience, that started to move to LoL.
The sentencing in the match-fixing scandal was in October 2010. Around the same time, two of the twelve professional teams disappeared: one team, CJ Entus, would merged into Hite Sparkys, forming a new team Hite Entus. Another team, eStro, could not find a buyer and simply had to fold. The finishing blow would come the next year: MBC, one of the three major TV stations of Korea, decided to turn its e-sports channel into a music channel. This meant that the MSL (MBCgame Starcraft League), one of the two greatest Starcraft tournaments, would end as well. The Global Starcraft II League (GSL), run by Gom TV, stepped into the breach, but the Internet-based Gom TV simply could not match the gravitas that MBC lent to the legitimacy of e-sports.
As you can see Stork doesn't blame sc2, which he calls a fun game, but the match fixing that killed the competition credibility.
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On December 07 2016 05:04 alexanderzero wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 04:52 BaronVonOwn wrote:
Casters and pro players are victims of this epic implosion, not perpetrators. There's no point in attacking them. And Blizzard put up plenty of money into SC2 prize pools and there was a thriving tournament scene outside WCS too. As the top esport for a time, a status granted to it by BW's legacy, SC2 had plenty of marketing exposure so that was not the issue either.
SC2 was just a flawed product and the average gamer did not enjoy the game like they once enjoyed BW. SC2 ceased to be relevant to the average gamer somewhere back in 2012 and both expansions utterly and totally failed to address their problems with the game. I think it took a lot of arrogance for the designers to think they could outdo the Brood War formula, and this is what happens. In 2016, BW is more popular than SC2. Why is that? Is Blizzard pumping money into the BW esports scene? I don't think so. Brood War never reached a fraction of SC2's popularity outside of Korea. Let's be real for a minute. The majority of gamers will never choose to play difficult RTS games, no matter how they're designed. The circumstances that lead to Brood War's popularity in Korea were special. Today there are so many more accessible, but competitive games for people to play.
Ok... The vast majority of gamers have never played League of Legends or DOTA either. Does that make MOBA's a niche genre unworthy of attention?
I see a lot of people say SC2 has much tougher competition than Brood War did. Clearly the people saying that weren't around in 1998. The games Brood War was up against were way tougher than the gutter trash released nowadays. You know what was popular in 1998? Final Fantasy VII, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Half-Life 1, Goldeneye, Fallout 2. And then a year later Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, and Counter-Strike dropped.
Out of all these legendary games, Brood War was not alone and forgotten. No, Brood War rose above and became the dominant esport for a decade. Get. off. my. lawn.
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I like how ppl taking the world "they don't care" while 99% ppl included in the meeting were not in charge to tell "we can spend money on this and this"
You have to realize there are far more important ppl that decide how much money they can loose per year on things like GSL SSL and SPL(you think its profitable?) nope...
But yeah so many incredibly ignorant ppl taking Storks words out of context and then they call themself Storks "fast" ...
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On December 07 2016 03:50 palexhur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 00:44 FireCake wrote:On December 07 2016 00:11 207aicila wrote:Both KeSPA and Blizzard were looking at alternatives to SC2, not ways it could be revived. Man I would fucking love to see what the head-in-the-sand defeners who pretend everything is fine are going to say to this. Any chance Apollo will ever read this interview or has he also abandoned SC2 to work on other things while lying through his teeth? I am even more hyped for the WCS announcement. It will probably be very interesting to see how they explain that the game is more alive with even less tournaments than before :D Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all. In the meantime Life is in prison for throwing 2 games in a video game. Since the beginning of SC2, I always thought that the real winners of the scene were the casters, they dont have to put great amount of time to make all those wrong calls, and they get the money whatever happens in the tournament, besides how hard is to yell and hype fake things from the games?.
It depends on what you want to do in e-sport.
If you want to stay and work in e-sport or something video games related it is a lot better to be a caster. Progaming experience worth so little.
I agree, being a caster is really really easy compared to progamer. Less commitment, less knoweldge, less pressure, more money, better opportunities, more ways to switch to an other game...
On December 07 2016 03:56 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all. Source of lying?
The post in the page you quoted ^^
On December 07 2016 03:59 Pr0wler wrote:How exactly ? With one sentence taken out of context and with no backstory at all ? Is talking nonsense your new career ?
I gave you my sources, you can simply read them...
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On December 07 2016 05:48 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
I like how ppl taking the world "they don't care" while 99% ppl included in the meeting were not in charge to tell "we can spend money on this and this"
You have to realize there are far more important ppl that decide how much money they can loose per year on things like GSL SSL and SPL(you think its profitable?) nope...
But yeah so many incredibly ignorant ppl taking Storks words out of context and then they call themself Storks "fast" ...
Almost all esports are unprofitable, people are willing to lose money on it in the short run because they think it will be profitable in the future, but almost no one thinks SC2 numbers will go up from where they are now.
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On December 07 2016 06:01 FireCake wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 03:50 palexhur wrote:On December 07 2016 00:44 FireCake wrote:On December 07 2016 00:11 207aicila wrote:Both KeSPA and Blizzard were looking at alternatives to SC2, not ways it could be revived. Man I would fucking love to see what the head-in-the-sand defeners who pretend everything is fine are going to say to this. Any chance Apollo will ever read this interview or has he also abandoned SC2 to work on other things while lying through his teeth? I am even more hyped for the WCS announcement. It will probably be very interesting to see how they explain that the game is more alive with even less tournaments than before :D Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all. In the meantime Life is in prison for throwing 2 games in a video game. Since the beginning of SC2, I always thought that the real winners of the scene were the casters, they dont have to put great amount of time to make all those wrong calls, and they get the money whatever happens in the tournament, besides how hard is to yell and hype fake things from the games?. It depends on what you want to do in e-sport. If you want to stay and work in e-sport or something video games related it is a lot better to be a caster. Progaming experience worth so little. I agree, being a caster is really really easy compared to progamer. Less commitment, less knoweldge, less pressure, more money, better opportunities, more ways to switch to an other game... Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 03:56 Hider wrote:Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all. Source of lying? The post in the page you quoted ^^ Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 03:59 Pr0wler wrote:On December 07 2016 00:50 FireCake wrote:On December 07 2016 00:37 horrypotter wrote:
Investing OW is at least 10 times more worth than investing dying fullprice RTS game. I don't know what is the problem.
The problem is what Kim Phan said : "We’ve been working with organizers in Korea to build more grassroots tournaments and to help growing that talent" (You can read it here : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/505248-kim-phan-we-are-trying-to-make-sure-we-are-doing-whats-best-for-starcraft)What Apollo said : "I think the Korean scene is healthy as fuck and will continue to be" (you can read it here : http://imgur.com/5kdlK4i)They both said that at the beginning of the WCS 2016. Now Stork is showing us how Blizzard didn't give a shit about korea. How exactly ? With one sentence taken out of context and with no backstory at all ? Is talking nonsense your new career ? I gave you my sources, you can simply read them...
What sources man ? How exactly did Stork show us that blizzard "didn't give a shit about korea" ? Sources on that, or you are basing that statement on one sentence(again out of contest and with no backstory) ?
And you know sometimes people are wrong and that doesn't make them lying pieces of shit or criminals.
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This is the main reason that SPL disappeared because it was basically a real tv show that needed large audience and involved huge sponsors (samsung, skt, kt, cj entus, jin air are huge companies) match fixing scandals, starting with sAviOr totally damaged both the audience and the image of SPL.
Might also just be a convenient excuse to cover up a decline in viewership.
I simply don't buy that viewership gets signficantly affected by a few matches being fixed. This has occured previously in other sports and they kept on going.
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I wonder if bashing from Blizz Korea employees is true, than it is not a suprised that Korean SC2 was in decline lol..
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On December 06 2016 23:30 sharkie wrote:
and to think how many people got warned or banned on TL because they were speaking the things Stork actually confirmed for us now heh
yep, i'm always scared to post an honest opinion cause every other page i see someone getting warned or banned for something subjective.
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This Kespa/Blizzard meeting result does not surprise me at all with the lack of patches and updates in SC2. When people joke around with Blizzard dev team not playing their own game i actually believe it to be the truth.
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Holy fuck...looks like i was right all along lol. I mean it's obvious from how they patch they don't play their own game but this is a new level of horseshit =/
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On December 07 2016 05:30 JackONeill wrote:
Blizzard started pulling ressources from SC2 during HOTS i think. The advertising, hype building of LOTV was no where near the one of HOTS.
Blizzard is probably the greediest game studio at the moment, with WoW "10 buck a month and gazillion expansions", Overwatch costing 40e when it's worth 25 max, for instance. Of course there weren't gonna keep SC2 on life support forever.
you can't assign a personal character trait such as "greed" to a corporate entity. However, to go along with ur line of thinking... when EA, Microsoft and Relic/Sega start putting into their major RTS titles 1/20 th of what Blizz puts in ... lemme know.
Overwatch was worth $40 USD and they fucked the $60 USD console buyers. Now that content has been added to OW its now a full $60 title.
Blizz allowed a genre with totally fucking garbage revenue #s for every company that makes RTS games.... a genre with an extremely low revenue ceiling to headline BlizzCon 2015... Blizzard took the RTS genre 1000 times farther than any other company... the long slow decline has been going on for a decade. Greedy? LOL. If Blizzard were greedy every damn RTS employee would've been fired or moved to WoW in 2004 the nanosecond WC3 was done.
When it comes to RTS Blizzard is far and away #1.
BlizzCon 2015 opening...
+ Show Spoiler +
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On December 07 2016 06:20 avilo wrote:
Holy fuck...looks like i was right all along lol. I mean it's obvious from how they patch they don't play their own game but this is a new level of horseshit =/
Do you want a cookie ?
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On December 07 2016 06:20 avilo wrote:
Holy fuck...looks like i was right all along lol. I mean it's obvious from how they patch they don't play their own game but this is a new level of horseshit =/
good point. looks like the best long term plan is to stop playing SC2 because Blizzard is not supporting it. the Overwatch League will be recruiting players soon.
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On December 07 2016 06:23 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Now that content has been added to OW its now a full $60 title.
Absolutely. Fucking. Not.
A multiplayer-only game (that's not some kind of MMO) will never be worth 60$. Usually, multiplayer games range from 20 to 30$, while multi + solo games are worth 60. And yeah sure you've got some 60$ solo games, but that's where you have to be carefull with your money (Skyrim was well worth the money, fallout 4 not so much, especially with the addons bundle BS).
But for instance Killing floor 2 proposes arguably more content than OW and it's 20-25$.
Few years back, i'd have bought any blizzard games with my eyes closed. I did for diablo III, and regretted it a lot. My point is that now you can't trust blizzard to produce "great" game. They'll advertise the shit out of them, but wether they're worth the money is debatable (Diablo III wasn't for sure when it came out, overwatch isn't for sure).
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On December 07 2016 06:44 JackONeill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 06:23 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Now that content has been added to OW its now a full $60 title.
Absolutely. Fucking. Not. A multiplayer-only game (that's not some kind of MMO) will never be worth 60$. Usually, multiplayer games range from 20 to 30$, while multi + solo games are worth 60. Killing floor 2 proposes arguably more content than OW and it's 20-25$.
off topic yap about OW
+ Show Spoiler +
its not multiplayer only. PvE content for Halloween... a constant stream of new PvE content on the way. plus, PvE in 6v6 mode.
Blizzard offers more extensive multiplayer support than most other companies.
Battleborn has the kind of content level you assess as worth $60 and was released around the same time as OW when OW's content was at its lowest level.
OW multiplayer >>> BB multiplayer
OW multi is better because Blizzard devotes far more resources to multiplayer than Gearbox does with BB. And these humans that support OW multiplayer get paid in this most unusual resource... its not vespene gas or Ore or Tiberium. nope.. its called "money".
The people spoke with their wallets.
Relative to other large studios Blizzard is far from "greedy".
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I will not say I called it, I will not say I told you so......oh it hurts to keep in....and it hurts more that it's over
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I'm convinced that Jimmy is either a secret Blizzard PR account... Or he desperately wants to work at Blizzard.
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On December 07 2016 06:56 BaronVonOwn wrote:
I'm convinced that Jimmy is either a secret Blizzard PR account... Or he desperately wants to work at Blizzard.
i'm merely a consumer who spends money in exchange for interactive entertainment products. Blizzard is a good option for my cash relative to my other options. Most of the moaning, whining, and complaining comes from other consumers who believe they are junior game designers. anyhow , if you want to get a game of C&C4 going... lemme know how that goes.
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EPT
