EPTThe term "esports" is already dead to me.
The Last Hierarch: Stork on SPL and BW return - Page 11
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notgayDragon
142 Posts
The term "esports" is already dead to me. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On December 08 2016 00:37 BaronVonOwn wrote: Yes... perhaps 4 gate or die and 1/1/1 pushes are repressed memories for some people. Every protoss matchup was seriously flawed. And in all matchups the protoss win condition was either a deathball or some kind of cheese. We should not romanticize WoL too much, it had its problems but it's still the least bad version. I loved WOL. But you're absolutely right, it had some serious issues, and it is the least bad version. | ||
ImbaTosS
United Kingdom1688 Posts
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
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ProVoKe
Netherlands9 Posts
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
On December 08 2016 20:09 ImbaTosS wrote: I feel genuinely bad for all the Korean SC2 fans who have been totally had by Blizzard. Blizzard intentionally went waist-deep into Korean SC2 so that they could make the lions share of the profit, and then have the freedom to shuffle it off the mortal coil when it suited their business. In future, I hope anybody trying to create a healthy scene for a competitive game, be they players, tournament organisers, team owners, or a governing body, aren't lured in or just plainly ensnared by a big budget top-down model promising instant success, at the cost of allowing all control to be held by an ultimately unscrupulous party for whom the love of the game is simply not top priority. Do you seriously think that e-"Sports" is a profitable business ? It's a marketing strategy that increases the sales of copies/microtransactions. I'm pretty sure that Blizzard lost money from supporting the Korean SC2 scene. | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
On December 07 2016 11:26 aQuaSC wrote: Obviously it's Korean community carrying Brood War, SC2 in general was very unlucky with its community over the years. Aside from never having a chance of being a game of its own, looked at only as it being a sequel to BW with very high expectations (you know, sequel must be so much better objectively, it can't be just different). Sure, Blizzard and tournament organizers made some poor moves over the years trying to cater to the community but it is not the only problem with the game. Region lock was pushed by ESL/DH as a response to dwindling viewership because of constant Koreans at the top and no chance for local competition - in my opinion it made sense to some extent, but being set up with Korean scene already being invested and in a way dependent on strangling other players with no infrastructure it resulted with what we have today. They tried to do what people wanted, but people changed their minds once Koreans started to lose interest thanks to being locked out from tournaments they wanted to participate in. But it should never be ignored that if not for SC2, competitive gaming and streaming would not look as they do right now. you must understand, if you watched the first GSL, there was a game in the semi finals (i think??) featuring BOXER vs NADA. and you could see how small the studio was...people didn't care. so it's hard to say why korea didn't really warm to sc2. at the announcement there was great excitement, but i think the final product was kinda disappointing. to be honest, i was disappointed too. the first few seasons were a cheese fest with terrible maps and capital ships sucked. | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On December 08 2016 23:28 shadymmj wrote: you must understand, if you watched the first GSL, there was a game in the semi finals (i think??) featuring BOXER vs NADA. and you could see how small the studio was...people didn't care. so it's hard to say why korea didn't really warm to sc2. at the announcement there was great excitement, but i think the final product was kinda disappointing. to be honest, i was disappointed too. the first few seasons were a cheese fest with terrible maps and capital ships sucked. Against your point though, Boxer vs NaDa was the most watched VOD by far on the old Gom site with like 2 million views. And these are numbers from like 4 years ago. But this brings another interesting point, that SC2 was most popular in Korea when the few recognizable figures that played it were still relevant as players. As to how strong the correlation is, hard to say. | ||
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BaronVonOwn
299 Posts
On December 08 2016 09:04 aQuaSC wrote: I think you'll agree that it's funny how things changed over the years - competitive game scenes were and some still are carried with little to no aid from developers (see Smash for instance, you could also argue about Brood War), but nowadays "esport" became a shitty ad term and is a mere part of games' marketing campaigns. If that's true, there is little incentive for Blizzard to put so many resources towards a 6-year old game that kids don't like, but there is no incentive for them to leave the game alone either, at least given their commitment to support their games. Blizzard will continue to support SC2, if it keeps going much further or even grows is on people passionate about it. Actually I wonder if they'll continue to invest in Starcraft. Starcraft had a great reputation before SC2. It had a huge and loyal fanbase and that's why SC2 had its initial success. Then people realized SC2 is not as good as SC1, and I think the Starcraft brand has been somewhat tarnished now. To be clear I'm not saying SC2 was a "bad" game, but casual and average gamers were turned off by it and they're going to remember those reasons, whatever they are. For a lot of gamers, SC2 is the only Starcraft game they've ever played, it was their introduction to the franchise. The Brood War veterans have seen Starcraft at its best and know how good it can be, but they're getting pretty old to be hardcore gamers. So who is the audience for a theoretical Starcraft 3? I think it has to be a great game in its own right this time, it can't depend on its name and an existing community like SC2 did. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On December 09 2016 00:11 BaronVonOwn wrote: Actually I wonder if they'll continue to invest in Starcraft. Starcraft had a great reputation before SC2. It had a huge and loyal fanbase and that's why SC2 had its initial success. Then people realized SC2 is not as good as SC1, and I think the Starcraft brand has been somewhat tarnished now. To be clear I'm not saying SC2 was a "bad" game, but casual and average gamers were turned off by it and they're going to remember those reasons, whatever they are. For a lot of gamers, SC2 is the only Starcraft game they've ever played, it was their introduction to the franchise. The Brood War veterans have seen Starcraft at its best and know how good it can be, but they're getting pretty old to be hardcore gamers. So who is the audience for a theoretical Starcraft 3? I think it has to be a great game in its own right this time, it can't depend on its name and an existing community like SC2 did. Most people play it for the singleplayer, the multiplayer part of starcraft is irrelevant for most people. Then there are hardcore people (like the ones on TL) which are an even smaller portion of the overall playerbase. While i think it would be important to please the hardcore base, in the end we are tiny and blizzard probably doesn't have to care | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
http://www.metacritic.com/search/all/StarCraft/results?sort=score Casual gamers weren't turned off by it, they played the campaign and then they quit. Although we also know that with LotV COOP has been very succesful. Saying that SC2 has tarnished the brand is a completely ridiculous claim. | ||
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BaronVonOwn
299 Posts
On December 09 2016 00:14 The_Red_Viper wrote: Most people play it for the singleplayer, the multiplayer part of starcraft is irrelevant for most people. Then there are hardcore people (like the ones on TL) which are an even smaller portion of the overall playerbase. While i think it would be important to please the hardcore base, in the end we are tiny and blizzard probably doesn't have to care Sure, but I don't see how that helps to rehabilitate Starcraft as a multiplayer/esports game. Those people aren't going to play multiplayer in any case. I see that it at least gives a financial incentive to develop Starcraft 3, and maybe multiplayer gamers will give it a chance because they're looking for something new. But I disagree that multiplayer/hardcore gamers are tiny and irrelevant. Multiplayer games are kind of a gold rush right now. Just look at Blizzard's last 3 new releases: Overwatch, Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm. No single-player component. Would they repeatedly release multiplayer-only games if single-player was all that matters? I'm not saying I think Starcraft needs to be more hardcore - I think the problem is that its multiplayer component is too hardcore and wasn't accessible to the majority of gamers. In fact I think being a mainstream esport like Brood War was in Korea is a holy grail for game marketers. We may be on the cusp of that when you look at Counter-Strike just starting to get mainstream TV network coverage. Reportedly TBS is very happy with E-League and are looking to expand. | ||
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Lightswarm
Canada966 Posts
On December 08 2016 20:09 ImbaTosS wrote: I feel genuinely bad for all the Korean SC2 fans who have been totally had by Blizzard. Blizzard intentionally went waist-deep into Korean SC2 so that they could make the lions share of the profit, and then have the freedom to shuffle it off the mortal coil when it suited their business. In future, I hope anybody trying to create a healthy scene for a competitive game, be they players, tournament organisers, team owners, or a governing body, aren't lured in or just plainly ensnared by a big budget top-down model promising instant success, at the cost of allowing all control to be held by an ultimately unscrupulous party for whom the love of the game is simply not top priority. We have to Make BroodWar Great Again | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
Careful. That phrase triggers a lot of people on here. Unless you're admitting you're a nazi shitlord. User was warned for this post Damn I forgot to put the /s. | ||
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Jealous
10146 Posts
On December 09 2016 06:44 Phredxor wrote: Careful. That phrase triggers a lot of people on here. Unless you're admitting you're a nazi shitlord. .... lol? Keep this shit out of here please. | ||
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