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'The end came about in a meeting between all Proleague coaches and people from Blizzard. We all went into that room with desperation, determination, to keep Proleague alive. But it was evident Blizzard didn’t care very much. They weren’t even that well informed on the match fixing scandal.
We thought the meeting was to come up with solutions to prevent future matchfixing. To come up with action plans to overcome and recover from this huge blow. The feeling was not mutual. Both KeSPA and Blizzard were looking at alternatives to SC2, not ways it could be revived. I was disheartened, heartbroken. But I could understand their position.'
I thought this part of the interview was disappointing . There was news in the past of Blizzard Korea being dismissive of SC2, seems nothing changed.
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Both KeSPA and Blizzard were looking at alternatives to SC2, not ways it could be revived.
If this is true, then I have no words for Blizzard.
Guess they really wanted to push Overwatch and didn't care about killing off korean SC2 for it?
In any case, enjoyed reading about Stork. Hope that all players that lost their teams and homes will find something that makes them happy.
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Italy3124 Posts
On December 06 2016 23:04 Ansibled wrote:
'Both KeSPA and Blizzard were looking at alternatives to SC2, not ways it could be revived. I was disheartened, heartbroken.
...this is so fuckin' sad... 
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China6327 Posts
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The wierdest thing is that they didn't bother telling the players the purpose of the meeting.
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Mute City2363 Posts
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If true then disappointing is quite the understatement
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and to think how many people got warned or banned on TL because they were speaking the things Stork actually confirmed for us now heh
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On December 06 2016 23:30 sharkie wrote:
and to think how many people got warned or banned on TL because they were speaking the things Stork actually confirmed for us now heh
They were not speaking, they were gossiping
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Austria24417 Posts
That's a really good interview.
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jesus thats depressing 
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On an emotional level this is incredible.
On a rational level, they did the same with BW in Korea if i remember correctly; they push their new shiny toy. Then it was SC2 instead of BW, now Overwatch instead of SC2.
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On December 06 2016 23:49 Sapphire.lux wrote:
On an emotional level this is incredible.
On a rational level, they did the same with BW in Korea if i remember correctly; they push their new shiny toy. Then it was SC2 instead of BW, now Overwatch instead of SC2.
Yeah, this is what I just thought about as well. Though with SC2 <-> BW you could at least argue that back then, people honestly thought SC2 can be a worthwhile successor to BW and be an "evolution".
For many, including me, it took quite a while to realize that this is not the case.
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Blizzard try to push their new shiny toys and abandoning their previous game? Wow, didn't see that coming.
/s
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Is there a distinction to be made between "Blizzard" and "Blizzard Korea," here? It seems strange that the Blizzard I've come to know would be unmotivated to save Proleague. I mean, they've certainly been trying and putting a lot of money into Starcraft lately, sponsoring most tournaments, haven't they?
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A while back, I had a slight misunderstanding with the Brood War community. I was trying to criticize two specific groups of BW streamers – those who had been convicted of matchfixing, and those who had become a “stream monkey” ready to humiliate themselves and others nonstop just for the cash grab – but my words were quoted out of context; people thought I was looking down on all BW streamers, something I have never done.
Wasn't that already quite obvious from what he said? Think those people who thought that probably never read his quote.
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On December 06 2016 23:55 Rehio wrote:
Is there a distinction to be made between "Blizzard" and "Blizzard Korea," here? It seems strange that the Blizzard I've come to know would be unmotivated to save Proleague. I mean, they've certainly been trying and putting a lot of money into Starcraft lately, sponsoring most tournaments, haven't they?
Chances are this is only about proleague, proleague cost more money that GSL and SSL and its hard do keep going, they probably just want to end SC2 proleague to make it OW proleague and keep the rest of SC2 tourneys.
A hearthbreaking decision but a rational one, OW can be profitable, SC2 cant.
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Both KeSPA and Blizzard were looking at alternatives to SC2, not ways it could be revived.
Man I would fucking love to see what the head-in-the-sand defeners who pretend everything is fine are going to say to this.
Any chance Apollo will ever read this interview or has he also abandoned SC2 to work on other things while lying through his teeth?
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The thing is KeSPA never managed to make a match fixing free proleague, it plagued the competition very early on.
And it's the main reason for starcraft proleague audience decline (even before the sc2 switch) : all the dubious games slowly but surely made people go to other game.
Having a whole team + the GOAT being caught in 2015 was just the last nail in the coffin.
as for Blizzard, I will wait and see what they do for 2017 to make my opinion (at this stage, they could very well have thought that any effort to keep proleague alive was a waste of money and time)
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On December 07 2016 00:11 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +Both KeSPA and Blizzard were looking at alternatives to SC2, not ways it could be revived. Man I would fucking love to see what the head-in-the-sand defeners who pretend everything is fine are going to say to this. Any chance Apollo will ever read this interview or has he also abandoned SC2 to work on other things while lying through his teeth?
Well at the same time it's important to not go to the other extreme, we can still have an enjoyable SC2 scene without proleague as disappointing as its end is. The lack of WCS news is hardly encouraging however.
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I'm frustrated reading this section:
But it was evident Blizzard didn’t care very much. They weren’t even that well informed on the match fixing scandal.
I wasn't there, I don't know what happened. I do know for a fact that Blizzard is informed regarding the match fixing scandals, based on first hand accounts discussing with important & relevant people that work at Blizzard, and that they were even working hard on solutions to prevent future issues. The part I heard only through the grapevine was that at this meeting they proposed a lot of solutions to help with match fixing / scandals in general, but that it was KESPA who said, "ya ya who cares but what about Overwatch :^) ?"
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So as far as i understand, this seems to be more a problem with Blizzard Korea rather than the main Blizzard?
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Blizzards acting is not suprising.
SC II binds too many resources without reaching the RoI of something like Cardstone or Overwatch. Especially Korean SC, which is a marked of 40 Million and needs about the same investment then the global market of over 1 Billion potential consumers (WCS). And even tho these consumers also watch korean events partly, they are still likely to watch WCS because of the much better timeslots.
At least the dead esport game meme can now exist on, it is partly official now.
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Investing OW is at least 10 times more worth than investing dying fullprice RTS game. I don't know what is the problem.
At least Blizzard is still supporting SC2. Publshing patch, making new contents, throwing money for small e-sports scene.
We shouldn't expect more. Blizzard is not volunteer organizations.
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On December 06 2016 23:55 Rehio wrote:
Is there a distinction to be made between "Blizzard" and "Blizzard Korea," here? It seems strange that the Blizzard I've come to know would be unmotivated to save Proleague. I mean, they've certainly been trying and putting a lot of money into Starcraft lately, sponsoring most tournaments, haven't they?
That's an important distinction.
Also something I'd have to wonder, is does Blizzard actually invest resources in team based Starcraft leagues? I kinda assumed they only did the individual leagues for SC2 and Proleague had to do their own thing.
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On December 07 2016 00:11 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +Both KeSPA and Blizzard were looking at alternatives to SC2, not ways it could be revived. Man I would fucking love to see what the head-in-the-sand defeners who pretend everything is fine are going to say to this. Any chance Apollo will ever read this interview or has he also abandoned SC2 to work on other things while lying through his teeth?
I am even more hyped for the WCS announcement. It will probably be very interesting to see how they explain that the game is more alive with even less tournaments than before :D
Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all.
In the meantime Life is in prison for throwing 2 games in a video game.
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On December 07 2016 00:44 FireCake wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 00:11 207aicila wrote:Both KeSPA and Blizzard were looking at alternatives to SC2, not ways it could be revived. Man I would fucking love to see what the head-in-the-sand defeners who pretend everything is fine are going to say to this. Any chance Apollo will ever read this interview or has he also abandoned SC2 to work on other things while lying through his teeth? I am even more hyped for the WCS announcement. It will probably be very interesting to see how they explain that the game is more alive with even less tournaments than before :D Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all. In the meantime Life is in prison for throwing 2 games in a video game.
Are you suggesting we should all forgive Life or that he didn't deserve it?
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On December 07 2016 00:44 FireCake wrote:
I am even more hyped for the WCS announcement. It will probably be very interesting to see how they explain that the game is more alive with even less tournaments than before :D
Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all.
Oh they'll find a way to explain it, don't you worry.
It blows my mind dude, how these people show such strong support for poor decisions that are killing the scene with a smile on their face, while having the gall to accuse us, the old timers, of being hateful or not big enough fans or whatever. Like they were literally in diapers when we fell in love with this game, and now that the game is being killed through mismanagement and incompetence, it's our fault for not pretending everything is fine? It's some next level Stockholm Syndrome or something, I don't get it.
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On December 07 2016 00:44 FireCake wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 00:11 207aicila wrote:Both KeSPA and Blizzard were looking at alternatives to SC2, not ways it could be revived. Man I would fucking love to see what the head-in-the-sand defeners who pretend everything is fine are going to say to this. Any chance Apollo will ever read this interview or has he also abandoned SC2 to work on other things while lying through his teeth? I am even more hyped for the WCS announcement. It will probably be very interesting to see how they explain that the game is more alive with even less tournaments than before :D Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all. In the meantime Life is in prison for throwing 2 games in a video game.
Life broke Korean law, not some video game rules and was prosecuted by government body, not Blizzard or KeSPA, not sure what you mean
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Everything I hear about Blizzard Korea makes me like that branch less and less. Maybe they did lose a bunch of good talent to Riot back in the day. Maybe they are just out of touch. I wonder if things would've been different if Mike Morhaime had been in the room since that guy seems do actually care about Starcraft.
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On December 07 2016 00:44 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 00:44 FireCake wrote:On December 07 2016 00:11 207aicila wrote:Both KeSPA and Blizzard were looking at alternatives to SC2, not ways it could be revived. Man I would fucking love to see what the head-in-the-sand defeners who pretend everything is fine are going to say to this. Any chance Apollo will ever read this interview or has he also abandoned SC2 to work on other things while lying through his teeth? I am even more hyped for the WCS announcement. It will probably be very interesting to see how they explain that the game is more alive with even less tournaments than before :D Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all. In the meantime Life is in prison for throwing 2 games in a video game. Are you suggesting we should all forgive Life or that he didn't deserve it?
What I am trying to say is they are both (Life and Blizzard) lying to all the starcraft scene (especially the viewers).
But only one (Life) has to pay for what he has done.
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It was a poor choice of words, but it was in answer to people complaining about a lack of Korean tournaments/prize money in 2016 after the region lock, which with proleague/ssl/gsl wasn't really the case.
Apollo should have spoken more carefully, and I certainly don't agree with a lot of what he says but I feel this scapegoating of him is getting stupid.
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On December 07 2016 00:51 eviltomahawk wrote:
Everything I hear about Blizzard Korea makes me like that branch less and less. Maybe they did lose a bunch of good talent to Riot back in the day. Maybe they are just out of touch. I wonder if things would've been different if Mike Morhaime had been in the room since that guy seems do actually care about Starcraft.
Morhaime's such a great dude, I shudder to think how much worse things would be if it weren't for his passion for the game.
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On December 07 2016 00:44 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 00:44 FireCake wrote:On December 07 2016 00:11 207aicila wrote:Both KeSPA and Blizzard were looking at alternatives to SC2, not ways it could be revived. Man I would fucking love to see what the head-in-the-sand defeners who pretend everything is fine are going to say to this. Any chance Apollo will ever read this interview or has he also abandoned SC2 to work on other things while lying through his teeth? I am even more hyped for the WCS announcement. It will probably be very interesting to see how they explain that the game is more alive with even less tournaments than before :D Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all. In the meantime Life is in prison for throwing 2 games in a video game. Are you suggesting we should all forgive Life or that he didn't deserve it?
I don't know about him but I certainly don't think Life deserved more than 6 months punishment at worst.
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On December 07 2016 00:44 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 00:44 FireCake wrote:On December 07 2016 00:11 207aicila wrote:Both KeSPA and Blizzard were looking at alternatives to SC2, not ways it could be revived. Man I would fucking love to see what the head-in-the-sand defeners who pretend everything is fine are going to say to this. Any chance Apollo will ever read this interview or has he also abandoned SC2 to work on other things while lying through his teeth? I am even more hyped for the WCS announcement. It will probably be very interesting to see how they explain that the game is more alive with even less tournaments than before :D Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all. In the meantime Life is in prison for throwing 2 games in a video game. Are you suggesting we should all forgive Life or that he didn't deserve it?
I don't think he is so much saying that as he is downplaying the supposed immorality or criminality of Life's actions. At the same time, I don't think that that matchfixing case created what was already a declining scene with declining conditions; it merely accelerated the inevitable
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On December 07 2016 00:55 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 00:51 eviltomahawk wrote:
Everything I hear about Blizzard Korea makes me like that branch less and less. Maybe they did lose a bunch of good talent to Riot back in the day. Maybe they are just out of touch. I wonder if things would've been different if Mike Morhaime had been in the room since that guy seems do actually care about Starcraft. Morhaime's such a great dude, I shudder to think how much worse things would be if it weren't for his passion for the game.
His passion is what's keeping the game afloat through Blizzard's direct support. Any other company would've abandoned ship earlier under these conditions. I even heard that he regretted sinking the BW pro scene and how they handled the entire switch.
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This is sad.
However, can someone explain the obsession with match-fixing? I highly doubt that SC2 is dying because of a few cases of match-fixing many years ago. And as for solutions to solving match-fixing, it does not seriously seem that much can be done about it. Are we going to tap their phones?
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On December 07 2016 01:09 paralleluniverse wrote:
This is sad.
However, can someone explain the obsession with match-fixing? I highly doubt that SC2 is dying because of a few cases of match-fixing many years ago. And as for solutions to solving match-fixing, it does not seriously seem much can do done about it. Are we going to tape their phones?
It's dying in big part because of the match fixing that got uncovered at the beginning of this year which killed Prime and got Life charged and banned. Viewers left and sponsors became hesitant because the legitimacy of the games and scene were again thrown into question.
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On December 07 2016 01:09 paralleluniverse wrote:
This is sad.
However, can someone explain the obsession with match-fixing? I highly doubt that SC2 is dying because of a few cases of match-fixing many years ago. And as for solutions to solving match-fixing, it does not seriously seem much can do done about it. Are we going to tape their phones?
Scandal with Life, Bbyong, YoDa and some other Prime members (including the team management) is fairly recent, it was uncovered just over a year ago. Korean scene just didn't seem to be interested in following a game where they weren't sure things are staged or not, but it's just my take on it.
By the way, I'm curious: YoDa won an IEM in Katowice in 2013, did they remove his name from the future trophies?
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This is not surprising. Still sad, though. There is/was only so much time, resources, and money they could dump into SC2.
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What's all this Blizzard Korea vs "real" Blizzard? Blizzard Korea does what Blizzard HQ wants; it's not some sort of rogue org. If you're gonna hate on Blizz then hate on the decision makers, not the employs that carry out the orders.
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The kid (life) got 2 years for a video game. Meanwhile i got friends that did assault with a deadly weapon, petite larceny, and even drug dealing go in for less.
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On December 07 2016 01:37 CrayonSc2 wrote:
The kid (life) got 2 years for a video game. Meanwhile i got friends that did assault with a deadly weapon, petite larceny, and even drug dealing go in for less.
Life doesn't have to serve jail time unless he commits another crime in the next 2 1/2 years. I'm pretty sure people who assault other people don't get conditions like that.
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On December 07 2016 01:41 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 01:37 CrayonSc2 wrote:
The kid (life) got 2 years for a video game. Meanwhile i got friends that did assault with a deadly weapon, petite larceny, and even drug dealing go in for less. Life doesn't have to serve jail time unless he commits another crime in the next 2 1/2 years.
So he is on probation? Not jail. Thats more reasonable.
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On December 07 2016 01:43 CrayonSc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 01:41 Elentos wrote:On December 07 2016 01:37 CrayonSc2 wrote:
The kid (life) got 2 years for a video game. Meanwhile i got friends that did assault with a deadly weapon, petite larceny, and even drug dealing go in for less. Life doesn't have to serve jail time unless he commits another crime in the next 2 1/2 years. So he is on probation? Not jail. Thats more reasonable.
Yeah his sentence was 18 months jail time but suspended for 3 years meaning he's on probation. Which does seem more reasonable than serving the entire sentence plus the time he wasn't free while they were investigating.
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I don't think it's fair to say Blizzard doesn't care about Starcraft. They care, the problem is they have no idea what to do. The LOTV release changes looked desperate, and every balance update after that has been grasping at straws. The entire multiplayer gameplay structure is fundamentally compromised.
Is it any surprise that the most successful part of LOTV has been co-op mode? It's based on a completely different gameplay dynamic, free from the enormous pile of mistakes that the multiplayer design team made. I don't blame them for wanting to move on, and I'm hoping that includes Brood War HD soon. It's sad to see the entire Starcraft community get suffocated like this. SC2 was propped up for a long time by the in-built SC1 fanbase but that's not going to be around forever.
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I've said for a while (half-jokingly) that Blizzard is sabotaging SC2 to make people go and play their other games that can actually earn them money. Looks like that wasn't too far from the truth 
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
You would only be surprised if you believed in the rhetoric about Korean SC2 being healthy as fuck.
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Good job, Blizzard. Good job indeed.
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On December 07 2016 01:34 Sapphire.lux wrote:
What's all this Blizzard Korea vs "real" Blizzard? Blizzard Korea does what Blizzard HQ wants; it's not some sort of rogue org. If you're gonna hate on Blizz then hate on the decision makers, not the employs that carry out the orders.
They'll do what the HQ wants but that doesnt seem they dont have any discretion. We've seen last year oov was tlaking about Blizzard KR employees shitalking SC2, that's something that would probably never happen in Blizzard proper.
I don't think not giving a shit about Proleague and not giving a shit about Korea are two completely different things. They can't subsidize everything and anything under the sun when they already subsidize millions of dollars a year into SC2.
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SAd to see the decisionmaking of KESPA and Blizz on that.
Still think SC2 will prevail. BW also did, because fans did a lot.
SC2 needs to do the same. Dont care about haters. If you think the game is dead, just walk away. Nobody needs you!
To compare the decision of letting Proleauge die to a criminal action(LIfe) is just stupid. Laws were broken, Life earned a shitton of money and called himself a pro. Now he has to live with the consequences of his actions.
--> Funny that a failed progamer(firecake) seems to have the need to convince others the game is dead. Maybe because he needs to feel that his decision was the right one.
I`m sure SC2 has its problems and a decline might be obvious, its still a really great game. I think its far more important to search for solutions than to play the blame game.
I will support all the streamers and weekly cups as good as I can. There are a lot of Tournaments and I enjoy taht all the monster Koreans play in them now. I like this part of PL dying.
Best of luck to Stork!!!!
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I'm waiting on Apollo' take on this
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On December 07 2016 01:34 Sapphire.lux wrote:
What's all this Blizzard Korea vs "real" Blizzard? Blizzard Korea does what Blizzard HQ wants; it's not some sort of rogue org. If you're gonna hate on Blizz then hate on the decision makers, not the employs that carry out the orders.
dunno man
Some cultures like the Korean culture are usually very quick to try to find a scapegoat to take responsibility for stuff. I honestly think Blizzard KR didn't care too much anymore and negative nancied more than I believe that the actual devs who made the game wanted it to stop.
Sad anyhow, but yea. Bring on OW or BW.
On December 07 2016 01:06 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 00:55 207aicila wrote:On December 07 2016 00:51 eviltomahawk wrote:
Everything I hear about Blizzard Korea makes me like that branch less and less. Maybe they did lose a bunch of good talent to Riot back in the day. Maybe they are just out of touch. I wonder if things would've been different if Mike Morhaime had been in the room since that guy seems do actually care about Starcraft. Morhaime's such a great dude, I shudder to think how much worse things would be if it weren't for his passion for the game. His passion is what's keeping the game afloat through Blizzard's direct support. Any other company would've abandoned ship earlier under these conditions. I even heard that he regretted sinking the BW pro scene and how they handled the entire switch.
Exactly, it's at the very least not Morhaime beheading the game. Every time he talks about his games it's like a dad boasting about his son's football play.
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"They weren’t even that well informed on the match fixing scandal."
Are you fucking kidding me.
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On December 06 2016 23:17 digmouse wrote:
This is infuriating...
My sentiments exactly.
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On December 07 2016 01:52 Noonius wrote:
I'm waiting on Apollo' take on this
Now living in LA on ESLs teet, he couldn't care less.
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On December 07 2016 01:56 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 01:34 Sapphire.lux wrote:
What's all this Blizzard Korea vs "real" Blizzard? Blizzard Korea does what Blizzard HQ wants; it's not some sort of rogue org. If you're gonna hate on Blizz then hate on the decision makers, not the employs that carry out the orders. dunno man Some cultures like the Korean culture are usually very quick to try to find a scapegoat to take responsibility for stuff. I honestly think Blizzard KR didn't care too much anymore and negative nancied more than I believe that the actual devs who made the game wanted it to stop. Sad anyhow, but yea. Bring on OW or BW. Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 01:06 eviltomahawk wrote:On December 07 2016 00:55 207aicila wrote:On December 07 2016 00:51 eviltomahawk wrote:
Everything I hear about Blizzard Korea makes me like that branch less and less. Maybe they did lose a bunch of good talent to Riot back in the day. Maybe they are just out of touch. I wonder if things would've been different if Mike Morhaime had been in the room since that guy seems do actually care about Starcraft. Morhaime's such a great dude, I shudder to think how much worse things would be if it weren't for his passion for the game. His passion is what's keeping the game afloat through Blizzard's direct support. Any other company would've abandoned ship earlier under these conditions. I even heard that he regretted sinking the BW pro scene and how they handled the entire switch. Exactly, it's at the very least not Morhaime beheading the game. Every time he talks about his games it's like a dad boasting about his son's football play.
There is Activision to consider here. That alone explains a lot of things blizz did in regards to many of its games.
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Bisutopia19183 Posts
On December 06 2016 23:29 Penev wrote:
If true then disappointing is quite the understatement
Happy Birthday! ^
"I promise to give it a lot of effort." + Show Spoiler [ASL Spoiler] +- Good thing he didn't give it effort or he would have lost in the ro24
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I dunno what makes me more sad, the interview or some of the comments.
Off to watch Wardi's league. Gotta watch what ya can get.
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On December 07 2016 02:38 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 23:29 Penev wrote:
If true then disappointing is quite the understatement Happy Birthday! ^ "I promise to give it a lot of effort." + Show Spoiler [ASL Spoiler] +- Good thing he didn't give it effort or he would have lost in the ro24
Just so we wish you a happy birthday too? :D
Well, happy birthday!
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Blizzard wanted to have their cake and eat it too - they wanted a big eSport game, without investing big amounts of money (LoL) or putting in the work to integrate tournaments with the community (DoTA 2). When they realized it wouldn't work, they quit. Simple as that.
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On December 06 2016 23:09 CynicalDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 23:04 Ansibled wrote:
'Both KeSPA and Blizzard were looking at alternatives to SC2, not ways it could be revived. I was disheartened, heartbroken. ...this is so fuckin' sad...
Seriously, like holy shit
Also happy birthday to penev and bd
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On December 07 2016 03:11 bduddy wrote:
Blizzard wanted to have their cake and eat it too - they wanted a big eSport game, without investing big amounts of money (LoL) or putting in the work to integrate tournaments with the community (DoTA 2). When they realized it wouldn't work, they quit. Simple as that.
You know I'm pretty sure it's not anywhere close to as simple as that.
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On December 07 2016 02:38 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 23:29 Penev wrote:
If true then disappointing is quite the understatement Happy Birthday! ^ "I promise to give it a lot of effort." + Show Spoiler [ASL Spoiler] +- Good thing he didn't give it effort or he would have lost in the ro24
Happy birthday to you!
On topic : this is a very beautiful interview which makes me look as favourably on Stork as bad on Blizzard...
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Read the full interview before grabbing your pitchfork
I like teamleague but it does not seem to be the most cost-effective format in the mind of Blizzard esport team and Kespa
Well at least we still have NSL for now in China
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On December 07 2016 00:44 FireCake wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 00:11 207aicila wrote:Both KeSPA and Blizzard were looking at alternatives to SC2, not ways it could be revived. Man I would fucking love to see what the head-in-the-sand defeners who pretend everything is fine are going to say to this. Any chance Apollo will ever read this interview or has he also abandoned SC2 to work on other things while lying through his teeth? I am even more hyped for the WCS announcement. It will probably be very interesting to see how they explain that the game is more alive with even less tournaments than before :D Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all. In the meantime Life is in prison for throwing 2 games in a video game.
Since the beginning of SC2, I always thought that the real winners of the scene were the casters, they dont have to put great amount of time to make all those wrong calls, and they get the money whatever happens in the tournament, besides how hard is to yell and hype fake things from the games?.
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Why are people surprised that Blizzard has no real interest in supporting their most recent SC2 release, now that their new shiny game Overwatch is out?
Blizzard only cares about supporting the E-sports scene as long as it supports game sales. SC2 has already sold the game to the people who would buy it, but now they see Overwatch as their new cash cow. Not only do you pay for the game, but people spend money on mini-transactions in the game to unlock items and what not. They can abandon SC2 now to promote their new game, and this cycle will continue and overwatch will be replaced in the future.
Blizzard purposely did their best to kill of BW, succeeded, and now doing the exact same thing to SC2. You can just imagine that the next game they produce, we will see Overwatch abandoned.
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Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all.
Source of lying?
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there's no purposeful killing of their games. it's just the nature of gamers to move on and forget.
and after a certain point, it's not profitable anymore for anyone involved.
would you do work for free?
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On December 07 2016 03:50 palexhur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 00:44 FireCake wrote:On December 07 2016 00:11 207aicila wrote:Both KeSPA and Blizzard were looking at alternatives to SC2, not ways it could be revived. Man I would fucking love to see what the head-in-the-sand defeners who pretend everything is fine are going to say to this. Any chance Apollo will ever read this interview or has he also abandoned SC2 to work on other things while lying through his teeth? I am even more hyped for the WCS announcement. It will probably be very interesting to see how they explain that the game is more alive with even less tournaments than before :D Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all. In the meantime Life is in prison for throwing 2 games in a video game. Since the beginning of SC2, I always thought that the real winners of the scene were the casters, they dont have to put great amount of time to make all those wrong calls, and they get the money whatever happens in the tournament, besides how hard is to yell and hype fake things from the games?.
incredibly ignorant.
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On December 07 2016 03:56 nanaoei wrote:
there's no purposeful killing of their games. it's just the nature of gamers to move on and forget.
and after a certain point, it's not profitable anymore for anyone involved.
would you do work for free?
Millions of people work for free. For example, here in Austria our health care system is carried by people working for free.
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How exactly ? With one sentence taken out of context and with no backstory at all ? Is talking nonsense your new career ?
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On December 07 2016 03:57 nanaoei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 03:50 palexhur wrote:On December 07 2016 00:44 FireCake wrote:On December 07 2016 00:11 207aicila wrote:Both KeSPA and Blizzard were looking at alternatives to SC2, not ways it could be revived. Man I would fucking love to see what the head-in-the-sand defeners who pretend everything is fine are going to say to this. Any chance Apollo will ever read this interview or has he also abandoned SC2 to work on other things while lying through his teeth? I am even more hyped for the WCS announcement. It will probably be very interesting to see how they explain that the game is more alive with even less tournaments than before :D Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all. In the meantime Life is in prison for throwing 2 games in a video game. Since the beginning of SC2, I always thought that the real winners of the scene were the casters, they dont have to put great amount of time to make all those wrong calls, and they get the money whatever happens in the tournament, besides how hard is to yell and hype fake things from the games?. incredibly ignorant.
incredibly ignorant.
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Casters and pro players are victims of this epic implosion, not perpetrators. There's no point in attacking them. And Blizzard put up plenty of money into SC2 prize pools and there was a thriving tournament scene outside WCS too. As the top esport for a time, a status granted to it by BW's legacy, SC2 had plenty of marketing exposure so that was not the issue either.
SC2 was just a flawed product and the average gamer did not enjoy the game like they once enjoyed BW. SC2 ceased to be relevant to the average gamer somewhere back in 2012 and both expansions utterly and totally failed to address their problems with the game. I think it took a lot of arrogance for the designers to think they could outdo the Brood War formula, and this is what happens. In 2016, BW is more popular than SC2. Why is that? Is Blizzard pumping money into the BW esports scene? I don't think so.
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On December 07 2016 04:52 BaronVonOwn wrote:
Casters and pro players are victims of this epic implosion, not perpetrators. There's no point in attacking them. And Blizzard put up plenty of money into SC2 prize pools and there was a thriving tournament scene outside WCS too. As the top esport for a time, a status granted to it by BW's legacy, SC2 had plenty of marketing exposure so that was not the issue either.
SC2 was just a flawed product and the average gamer did not enjoy the game like they once enjoyed BW. SC2 ceased to be relevant to the average gamer somewhere back in 2012 and both expansions utterly and totally failed to address their problems with the game. I think it took a lot of arrogance for the designers to think they could outdo the Brood War formula, and this is what happens. In 2016, BW is more popular than SC2. Why is that? Is Blizzard pumping money into the BW esports scene? I don't think so.
Brood War never reached a fraction of SC2's popularity outside of Korea. Let's be real for a minute. The majority of gamers will never choose to play difficult RTS games, no matter how they're designed. The circumstances that lead to Brood War's popularity in Korea were special. Today there are so many more accessible, but competitive games for people to play.
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I've been waiting years for Blizzard admitting they don't care about SC2. At least now we have evidence to confront their lies.
Now i can say for sure last patch was just a strategy to bring some people back to SC2 and sell their skins and packs. Making the game better is just a cheap excuse.
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Its almost 2017.
Nothing lasts forever, while (some) criticism on the game design and management are fair, SC2 still lasted for quite a while.
Its not even dead yet, just a little past expiration date.
They actually cared a lot for quite long.
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On December 07 2016 03:59 Pr0wler wrote:How exactly ? With one sentence taken out of context and with no backstory at all ? Is talking nonsense your new career ?
Regardless of whether its lying (as in ignoring the obvious) or just being a bad predictor, this does indicates that Apollo's judgement is very poor.
That said, associating Apollo with a matchfixer is a pretty despictable act by Firecake.
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On December 07 2016 05:04 alexanderzero wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 04:52 BaronVonOwn wrote:
Casters and pro players are victims of this epic implosion, not perpetrators. There's no point in attacking them. And Blizzard put up plenty of money into SC2 prize pools and there was a thriving tournament scene outside WCS too. As the top esport for a time, a status granted to it by BW's legacy, SC2 had plenty of marketing exposure so that was not the issue either.
SC2 was just a flawed product and the average gamer did not enjoy the game like they once enjoyed BW. SC2 ceased to be relevant to the average gamer somewhere back in 2012 and both expansions utterly and totally failed to address their problems with the game. I think it took a lot of arrogance for the designers to think they could outdo the Brood War formula, and this is what happens. In 2016, BW is more popular than SC2. Why is that? Is Blizzard pumping money into the BW esports scene? I don't think so. Brood War never reached a fraction of SC2's popularity outside of Korea. Let's be real for a minute. The majority of gamers will never choose to play difficult RTS games, no matter how they're designed. The circumstances that lead to Brood War's popularity in Korea were special. Today there are so many more accessible, but competitive games for people to play.
What the fuck are you talking about dude, Brood war sold like 10 million copies. Not to mention the amount it was pirated in some manner.
No there was no twitch TV back then but it was still super popular.
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Blizzard started pulling ressources from SC2 during HOTS i think. The advertising, hype building of LOTV was no where near the one of HOTS.
Blizzard is probably the greediest game studio at the moment, with WoW "10 buck a month and gazillion expansions", Overwatch costing 40e when it's worth 25 max, for instance. Of course there weren't gonna keep SC2 on life support forever.
But it was a truly stupid move to screw up the game they had in a situation of monopoly. I think that both HOTS and LOTV were huge failure that applied band aid after band aid over the flaws of WOL, with no regard whatsoever for people playing 6-10 hours a week (the meat of the community).
The only way to react to that is with your wallet. Overwatch is a fun game, the warcraft movie is probably a fun movie, but there's no way in hell i'm giving blizzard any money blindly again.
The failure of SC2 has nothing to do with genre, it has nothing to do with MOBA.
It has to do with a year of unadressed BL/infestor, 5 years of unadressed heavy protoss reliance on forcefields or a year of unadressed SH campfest.
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On December 07 2016 01:09 paralleluniverse wrote:
This is sad.
However, can someone explain the obsession with match-fixing? I highly doubt that SC2 is dying because of a few cases of match-fixing many years ago. And as for solutions to solving match-fixing, it does not seriously seem that much can be done about it. Are we going to tap their phones?
This is the main reason that SPL disappeared because it was basically a real tv show that needed large audience and involved huge sponsors (samsung, skt, kt, cj entus, jin air are huge companies) match fixing scandals, starting with sAviOr totally damaged both the audience and the image of SPL.
you might be interested in reading this article
And you'll see that this first scandal was devastatting for sc audience, that started to move to LoL.
The sentencing in the match-fixing scandal was in October 2010. Around the same time, two of the twelve professional teams disappeared: one team, CJ Entus, would merged into Hite Sparkys, forming a new team Hite Entus. Another team, eStro, could not find a buyer and simply had to fold. The finishing blow would come the next year: MBC, one of the three major TV stations of Korea, decided to turn its e-sports channel into a music channel. This meant that the MSL (MBCgame Starcraft League), one of the two greatest Starcraft tournaments, would end as well. The Global Starcraft II League (GSL), run by Gom TV, stepped into the breach, but the Internet-based Gom TV simply could not match the gravitas that MBC lent to the legitimacy of e-sports.
As you can see Stork doesn't blame sc2, which he calls a fun game, but the match fixing that killed the competition credibility.
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On December 07 2016 05:04 alexanderzero wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 04:52 BaronVonOwn wrote:
Casters and pro players are victims of this epic implosion, not perpetrators. There's no point in attacking them. And Blizzard put up plenty of money into SC2 prize pools and there was a thriving tournament scene outside WCS too. As the top esport for a time, a status granted to it by BW's legacy, SC2 had plenty of marketing exposure so that was not the issue either.
SC2 was just a flawed product and the average gamer did not enjoy the game like they once enjoyed BW. SC2 ceased to be relevant to the average gamer somewhere back in 2012 and both expansions utterly and totally failed to address their problems with the game. I think it took a lot of arrogance for the designers to think they could outdo the Brood War formula, and this is what happens. In 2016, BW is more popular than SC2. Why is that? Is Blizzard pumping money into the BW esports scene? I don't think so. Brood War never reached a fraction of SC2's popularity outside of Korea. Let's be real for a minute. The majority of gamers will never choose to play difficult RTS games, no matter how they're designed. The circumstances that lead to Brood War's popularity in Korea were special. Today there are so many more accessible, but competitive games for people to play.
Ok... The vast majority of gamers have never played League of Legends or DOTA either. Does that make MOBA's a niche genre unworthy of attention?
I see a lot of people say SC2 has much tougher competition than Brood War did. Clearly the people saying that weren't around in 1998. The games Brood War was up against were way tougher than the gutter trash released nowadays. You know what was popular in 1998? Final Fantasy VII, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Half-Life 1, Goldeneye, Fallout 2. And then a year later Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, and Counter-Strike dropped.
Out of all these legendary games, Brood War was not alone and forgotten. No, Brood War rose above and became the dominant esport for a decade. Get. off. my. lawn.
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I like how ppl taking the world "they don't care" while 99% ppl included in the meeting were not in charge to tell "we can spend money on this and this"
You have to realize there are far more important ppl that decide how much money they can loose per year on things like GSL SSL and SPL(you think its profitable?) nope...
But yeah so many incredibly ignorant ppl taking Storks words out of context and then they call themself Storks "fast" ...
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On December 07 2016 03:50 palexhur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 00:44 FireCake wrote:On December 07 2016 00:11 207aicila wrote:Both KeSPA and Blizzard were looking at alternatives to SC2, not ways it could be revived. Man I would fucking love to see what the head-in-the-sand defeners who pretend everything is fine are going to say to this. Any chance Apollo will ever read this interview or has he also abandoned SC2 to work on other things while lying through his teeth? I am even more hyped for the WCS announcement. It will probably be very interesting to see how they explain that the game is more alive with even less tournaments than before :D Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all. In the meantime Life is in prison for throwing 2 games in a video game. Since the beginning of SC2, I always thought that the real winners of the scene were the casters, they dont have to put great amount of time to make all those wrong calls, and they get the money whatever happens in the tournament, besides how hard is to yell and hype fake things from the games?.
It depends on what you want to do in e-sport.
If you want to stay and work in e-sport or something video games related it is a lot better to be a caster. Progaming experience worth so little.
I agree, being a caster is really really easy compared to progamer. Less commitment, less knoweldge, less pressure, more money, better opportunities, more ways to switch to an other game...
On December 07 2016 03:56 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all. Source of lying?
The post in the page you quoted ^^
On December 07 2016 03:59 Pr0wler wrote:How exactly ? With one sentence taken out of context and with no backstory at all ? Is talking nonsense your new career ?
I gave you my sources, you can simply read them...
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On December 07 2016 05:48 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
I like how ppl taking the world "they don't care" while 99% ppl included in the meeting were not in charge to tell "we can spend money on this and this"
You have to realize there are far more important ppl that decide how much money they can loose per year on things like GSL SSL and SPL(you think its profitable?) nope...
But yeah so many incredibly ignorant ppl taking Storks words out of context and then they call themself Storks "fast" ...
Almost all esports are unprofitable, people are willing to lose money on it in the short run because they think it will be profitable in the future, but almost no one thinks SC2 numbers will go up from where they are now.
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On December 07 2016 06:01 FireCake wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 03:50 palexhur wrote:On December 07 2016 00:44 FireCake wrote:On December 07 2016 00:11 207aicila wrote:Both KeSPA and Blizzard were looking at alternatives to SC2, not ways it could be revived. Man I would fucking love to see what the head-in-the-sand defeners who pretend everything is fine are going to say to this. Any chance Apollo will ever read this interview or has he also abandoned SC2 to work on other things while lying through his teeth? I am even more hyped for the WCS announcement. It will probably be very interesting to see how they explain that the game is more alive with even less tournaments than before :D Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all. In the meantime Life is in prison for throwing 2 games in a video game. Since the beginning of SC2, I always thought that the real winners of the scene were the casters, they dont have to put great amount of time to make all those wrong calls, and they get the money whatever happens in the tournament, besides how hard is to yell and hype fake things from the games?. It depends on what you want to do in e-sport. If you want to stay and work in e-sport or something video games related it is a lot better to be a caster. Progaming experience worth so little. I agree, being a caster is really really easy compared to progamer. Less commitment, less knoweldge, less pressure, more money, better opportunities, more ways to switch to an other game... Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 03:56 Hider wrote:Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all. Source of lying? The post in the page you quoted ^^ Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 03:59 Pr0wler wrote:On December 07 2016 00:50 FireCake wrote:On December 07 2016 00:37 horrypotter wrote:
Investing OW is at least 10 times more worth than investing dying fullprice RTS game. I don't know what is the problem.
The problem is what Kim Phan said : "We’ve been working with organizers in Korea to build more grassroots tournaments and to help growing that talent" (You can read it here : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/505248-kim-phan-we-are-trying-to-make-sure-we-are-doing-whats-best-for-starcraft)What Apollo said : "I think the Korean scene is healthy as fuck and will continue to be" (you can read it here : http://imgur.com/5kdlK4i)They both said that at the beginning of the WCS 2016. Now Stork is showing us how Blizzard didn't give a shit about korea. How exactly ? With one sentence taken out of context and with no backstory at all ? Is talking nonsense your new career ? I gave you my sources, you can simply read them...
What sources man ? How exactly did Stork show us that blizzard "didn't give a shit about korea" ? Sources on that, or you are basing that statement on one sentence(again out of contest and with no backstory) ?
And you know sometimes people are wrong and that doesn't make them lying pieces of shit or criminals.
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This is the main reason that SPL disappeared because it was basically a real tv show that needed large audience and involved huge sponsors (samsung, skt, kt, cj entus, jin air are huge companies) match fixing scandals, starting with sAviOr totally damaged both the audience and the image of SPL.
Might also just be a convenient excuse to cover up a decline in viewership.
I simply don't buy that viewership gets signficantly affected by a few matches being fixed. This has occured previously in other sports and they kept on going.
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I wonder if bashing from Blizz Korea employees is true, than it is not a suprised that Korean SC2 was in decline lol..
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On December 06 2016 23:30 sharkie wrote:
and to think how many people got warned or banned on TL because they were speaking the things Stork actually confirmed for us now heh
yep, i'm always scared to post an honest opinion cause every other page i see someone getting warned or banned for something subjective.
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This Kespa/Blizzard meeting result does not surprise me at all with the lack of patches and updates in SC2. When people joke around with Blizzard dev team not playing their own game i actually believe it to be the truth.
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Holy fuck...looks like i was right all along lol. I mean it's obvious from how they patch they don't play their own game but this is a new level of horseshit =/
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On December 07 2016 05:30 JackONeill wrote:
Blizzard started pulling ressources from SC2 during HOTS i think. The advertising, hype building of LOTV was no where near the one of HOTS.
Blizzard is probably the greediest game studio at the moment, with WoW "10 buck a month and gazillion expansions", Overwatch costing 40e when it's worth 25 max, for instance. Of course there weren't gonna keep SC2 on life support forever.
you can't assign a personal character trait such as "greed" to a corporate entity. However, to go along with ur line of thinking... when EA, Microsoft and Relic/Sega start putting into their major RTS titles 1/20 th of what Blizz puts in ... lemme know.
Overwatch was worth $40 USD and they fucked the $60 USD console buyers. Now that content has been added to OW its now a full $60 title.
Blizz allowed a genre with totally fucking garbage revenue #s for every company that makes RTS games.... a genre with an extremely low revenue ceiling to headline BlizzCon 2015... Blizzard took the RTS genre 1000 times farther than any other company... the long slow decline has been going on for a decade. Greedy? LOL. If Blizzard were greedy every damn RTS employee would've been fired or moved to WoW in 2004 the nanosecond WC3 was done.
When it comes to RTS Blizzard is far and away #1.
BlizzCon 2015 opening...
+ Show Spoiler +
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On December 07 2016 06:20 avilo wrote:
Holy fuck...looks like i was right all along lol. I mean it's obvious from how they patch they don't play their own game but this is a new level of horseshit =/
Do you want a cookie ?
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On December 07 2016 06:20 avilo wrote:
Holy fuck...looks like i was right all along lol. I mean it's obvious from how they patch they don't play their own game but this is a new level of horseshit =/
good point. looks like the best long term plan is to stop playing SC2 because Blizzard is not supporting it. the Overwatch League will be recruiting players soon.
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On December 07 2016 06:23 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Now that content has been added to OW its now a full $60 title.
Absolutely. Fucking. Not.
A multiplayer-only game (that's not some kind of MMO) will never be worth 60$. Usually, multiplayer games range from 20 to 30$, while multi + solo games are worth 60. And yeah sure you've got some 60$ solo games, but that's where you have to be carefull with your money (Skyrim was well worth the money, fallout 4 not so much, especially with the addons bundle BS).
But for instance Killing floor 2 proposes arguably more content than OW and it's 20-25$.
Few years back, i'd have bought any blizzard games with my eyes closed. I did for diablo III, and regretted it a lot. My point is that now you can't trust blizzard to produce "great" game. They'll advertise the shit out of them, but wether they're worth the money is debatable (Diablo III wasn't for sure when it came out, overwatch isn't for sure).
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On December 07 2016 06:44 JackONeill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 06:23 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Now that content has been added to OW its now a full $60 title.
Absolutely. Fucking. Not. A multiplayer-only game (that's not some kind of MMO) will never be worth 60$. Usually, multiplayer games range from 20 to 30$, while multi + solo games are worth 60. Killing floor 2 proposes arguably more content than OW and it's 20-25$.
off topic yap about OW
+ Show Spoiler +
its not multiplayer only. PvE content for Halloween... a constant stream of new PvE content on the way. plus, PvE in 6v6 mode.
Blizzard offers more extensive multiplayer support than most other companies.
Battleborn has the kind of content level you assess as worth $60 and was released around the same time as OW when OW's content was at its lowest level.
OW multiplayer >>> BB multiplayer
OW multi is better because Blizzard devotes far more resources to multiplayer than Gearbox does with BB. And these humans that support OW multiplayer get paid in this most unusual resource... its not vespene gas or Ore or Tiberium. nope.. its called "money".
The people spoke with their wallets.
Relative to other large studios Blizzard is far from "greedy".
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I will not say I called it, I will not say I told you so......oh it hurts to keep in....and it hurts more that it's over
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I'm convinced that Jimmy is either a secret Blizzard PR account... Or he desperately wants to work at Blizzard.
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On December 07 2016 06:56 BaronVonOwn wrote:
I'm convinced that Jimmy is either a secret Blizzard PR account... Or he desperately wants to work at Blizzard.
i'm merely a consumer who spends money in exchange for interactive entertainment products. Blizzard is a good option for my cash relative to my other options. Most of the moaning, whining, and complaining comes from other consumers who believe they are junior game designers. anyhow , if you want to get a game of C&C4 going... lemme know how that goes.
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On December 07 2016 06:54 LongShot27 wrote:
I will not say I called it, I will not say I told you so......oh it hurts to keep in....and it hurts more that it's over
why do you visit this website?
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On December 07 2016 07:00 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 06:54 LongShot27 wrote:
I will not say I called it, I will not say I told you so......oh it hurts to keep in....and it hurts more that it's over why do you visit this website?
Because I love starcraft
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On December 07 2016 07:02 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 07:00 Charoisaur wrote:On December 07 2016 06:54 LongShot27 wrote:
I will not say I called it, I will not say I told you so......oh it hurts to keep in....and it hurts more that it's over why do you visit this website? Because I love starcraft
doesn't seem like it from all the "ahahaha your game is dead, accept it and move on" comments.
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On December 07 2016 07:08 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 07:02 LongShot27 wrote:On December 07 2016 07:00 Charoisaur wrote:On December 07 2016 06:54 LongShot27 wrote:
I will not say I called it, I will not say I told you so......oh it hurts to keep in....and it hurts more that it's over why do you visit this website? Because I love starcraft doesn't seem like it from all the "ahahaha your game is dead, accept it and move on" comments.
Yeah you've definitely never read my posts
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On December 07 2016 06:44 JackONeill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 06:23 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Now that content has been added to OW its now a full $60 title.
Absolutely. Fucking. Not. A multiplayer-only game (that's not some kind of MMO) will never be worth 60$. Usually, multiplayer games range from 20 to 30$, while multi + solo games are worth 60. And yeah sure you've got some 60$ solo games, but that's where you have to be carefull with your money (Skyrim was well worth the money, fallout 4 not so much, especially with the addons bundle BS). But for instance Killing floor 2 proposes arguably more content than OW and it's 20-25$. Few years back, i'd have bought any blizzard games with my eyes closed. I did for diablo III, and regretted it a lot. My point is that now you can't trust blizzard to produce "great" game. They'll advertise the shit out of them, but wether they're worth the money is debatable (Diablo III wasn't for sure when it came out, overwatch isn't for sure).
I'd agree on Diablo, but Overwatch seems like its an amazing game. It's really popular, and they're going to keep adding more and more to it. I think games are worth 60 dollars, I've gotten hundreds of hours out of Overwatch and probably thousands of hours with Starcraft multiplayer alone.
On December 07 2016 05:27 Little-Chimp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 05:04 alexanderzero wrote:On December 07 2016 04:52 BaronVonOwn wrote:
Casters and pro players are victims of this epic implosion, not perpetrators. There's no point in attacking them. And Blizzard put up plenty of money into SC2 prize pools and there was a thriving tournament scene outside WCS too. As the top esport for a time, a status granted to it by BW's legacy, SC2 had plenty of marketing exposure so that was not the issue either.
SC2 was just a flawed product and the average gamer did not enjoy the game like they once enjoyed BW. SC2 ceased to be relevant to the average gamer somewhere back in 2012 and both expansions utterly and totally failed to address their problems with the game. I think it took a lot of arrogance for the designers to think they could outdo the Brood War formula, and this is what happens. In 2016, BW is more popular than SC2. Why is that? Is Blizzard pumping money into the BW esports scene? I don't think so. Brood War never reached a fraction of SC2's popularity outside of Korea. Let's be real for a minute. The majority of gamers will never choose to play difficult RTS games, no matter how they're designed. The circumstances that lead to Brood War's popularity in Korea were special. Today there are so many more accessible, but competitive games for people to play. What the fuck are you talking about dude, Brood war sold like 10 million copies. Not to mention the amount it was pirated in some manner. No there was no twitch TV back then but it was still super popular.
SC1 + BW combined sold 10 million copies. And what he's saying still has standing. Compare BW's popularity in the West to Counterstrike, Quake, and later Warcraft 3 and it didnt reach the same esports popularity as those games, all before Twitch.
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So the game was design with pro players in mind neglecting casuals. No2 neither pro plays neither casuals enjoys.
Can we say it was nice attempt but in conclusion it FAILED ?
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On December 07 2016 07:42 saltis wrote:
So the game was design with pro players in mind neglecting casuals. No2 neither pro plays neither casuals enjoys.
Can we say it was nice attempt but in conclusion it FAILED ?
It was a bad attempt that disconnected from the people who support the game, that's why it failed. The game is fine, they way it was handled was....well it wasn't no man's sky so theres that.
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On December 07 2016 07:42 saltis wrote:
So the game was design with pro players in mind neglecting casuals. No2 neither pro plays neither casuals enjoys.
Can we say it was nice attempt but in conclusion it FAILED ?
No
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On December 07 2016 07:42 saltis wrote:
So the game was design with pro players in mind neglecting casuals. No2 neither pro plays neither casuals enjoys.
Can we say it was nice attempt but in conclusion it FAILED ?
Well to quote the Stork interview that this thread is supposed to be about
'I still think StarCraft 2 is a fun game, a really fun game, once you begin to understand how it all works. Once you pass a certain threshold. But with the times changing, and the genre itself fading away in popularity, not many gave StarCraft 2 the chance it needed.'
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This is a tremendous interview. Congratulations to the media and my utmost respect to Stork.
Still a bit emotional, here are my thoughts:
- Stork confirms that Proleague's death was primarly caused by Life and its match-fixing scandal. It was his main concern when speaking to Blizzard/Kespa. This is no surprise for me, but many other still believe "LotV is too fast/hard/boring/imba/expensive" is the main reason... please re-read the interview if this is still your opinion.
- Blizzard... WTF?? I eagerly await an statement about this, it is dissapointing to say the least. How can you care and not care about your game at the same time??
And @admins please, this thread should be highlighted.
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Holy hell how many ppl need to realize Blizzard =/= Blizzard Korea... -_-
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On December 07 2016 08:04 Xamo wrote:
This is a tremendous interview. Congratulations to the media and my utmost respect to Stork.
Still a bit emotional, here are my thoughts:
- Stork confirms that Proleague's death was primarly caused by Life and its match-fixing scandal. It was his main concern when speaking to Blizzard/Kespa. This is no surprise for me, but many other still believe "LotV is too fast/hard/boring/imba/expensive" is the main reason... please re-read the interview if this is still your opinion.
- Blizzard... WTF?? I eagerly await an statement about this, it is dissapointing to say the least. How can you care and not care about your game at the same time??
And @admins please, this thread should be highlighted.
I would say the matchfixing scandal sealed the deal. A lot of fans were upset with the way SC was being handled but still felt the game was worth supporting....then we got betrayed by the people who we as fans made into semi-celebrities. LotV isn't the main reason but the expansion was poorly designed and rushed in all facets, the multiplayer, the campaign, everything. As for Blizzard, Disappointing but kind of expected, with the way they were just not listening to people, brushing off starcrafts decline as nothing to worry about and a complete disconnect from the community it wasn't.....surprising to hear they kind of stopped caring.
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On December 07 2016 00:44 FireCake wrote:
Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all.
In the meantime Life is in prison for throwing 2 games in a video game.
WHAT... Life is in prision for accepting money to alter the result of a match that had many bets on. Basically he helped to steal money from those who had bet for him, and give it to the criminals that bet against him. Your wording suggests that his fault was not too big, and this is absolutely regrettable.
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On December 07 2016 08:21 Xamo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 00:44 FireCake wrote:
Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all.
In the meantime Life is in prison for throwing 2 games in a video game. WHAT... Life is in prision for accepting money to alter the result of a match that had many bets on. Basically he helped to steal money from those who had bet for him, and give it to the criminals that bet against him. Your wording suggests that his fault was not too big, and this is absolutely regrettable.
He's not in prison.
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On December 07 2016 08:21 Xamo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 00:44 FireCake wrote:
Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all.
In the meantime Life is in prison for throwing 2 games in a video game. WHAT... Life is in prision for accepting money to alter the result of a match that had many bets on. Basically he helped to steal money from those who had bet for him, and give it to the criminals that bet against him. Your wording suggests that his fault was not too big, and this is absolutely regrettable.
Life isn't in prison, and the point he made is valid.
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On December 07 2016 08:21 Xamo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 00:44 FireCake wrote:
Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all.
In the meantime Life is in prison for throwing 2 games in a video game. WHAT... Life is in prision for accepting money to alter the result of a match that had many bets on. Basically he helped to steal money from those who had bet for him, and give it to the criminals that bet against him. Your wording suggests that his fault was not too big, and this is absolutely regrettable.
Not to mention that every type of gambling is prohibited in Korea, it was some underground betting
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For the tl:dr guys ^_^
![[image loading]](https://static.invenglobal.com/upload/image/2016/12/06/i1481021645248747.jpeg)
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what a nice interview... Im still here
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On December 07 2016 08:41 aQuaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 08:21 Xamo wrote:On December 07 2016 00:44 FireCake wrote:
Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all.
In the meantime Life is in prison for throwing 2 games in a video game. WHAT... Life is in prision for accepting money to alter the result of a match that had many bets on. Basically he helped to steal money from those who had bet for him, and give it to the criminals that bet against him. Your wording suggests that his fault was not too big, and this is absolutely regrettable. Not to mention that every type of gambling is prohibited in Korea, it was some underground betting
Which is not true; what SK prohibits is private betting.
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Also in response to the title of the article and the few true SC2 fans that remain even after this traumatic experience:
"My brethren, hear me, for there is little time left. All that remains of our race, our civilization, are those that stand beside you now. Trust in each other. Strike as one will. Let our last stand burn a memory so bright we will be remembered forever. En taro Tassadar!"
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On December 07 2016 08:54 Thouhastmail wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 08:41 aQuaSC wrote:On December 07 2016 08:21 Xamo wrote:On December 07 2016 00:44 FireCake wrote:
Sadly Apollo and many other personnalities and commentators that lied about the state of Sc2 in order to get money/a jump in their career/more opportunities will never have any problems at all.
In the meantime Life is in prison for throwing 2 games in a video game. WHAT... Life is in prision for accepting money to alter the result of a match that had many bets on. Basically he helped to steal money from those who had bet for him, and give it to the criminals that bet against him. Your wording suggests that his fault was not too big, and this is absolutely regrettable. Not to mention that every type of gambling is prohibited in Korea, it was some underground betting Which is not true; what SK prohibits is private betting.
Oh, thanks for straightening it out, I based that on articles 246 and 247 from this act though
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On December 07 2016 02:35 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 01:56 Wintex wrote:On December 07 2016 01:34 Sapphire.lux wrote:
What's all this Blizzard Korea vs "real" Blizzard? Blizzard Korea does what Blizzard HQ wants; it's not some sort of rogue org. If you're gonna hate on Blizz then hate on the decision makers, not the employs that carry out the orders. dunno man Some cultures like the Korean culture are usually very quick to try to find a scapegoat to take responsibility for stuff. I honestly think Blizzard KR didn't care too much anymore and negative nancied more than I believe that the actual devs who made the game wanted it to stop. Sad anyhow, but yea. Bring on OW or BW. On December 07 2016 01:06 eviltomahawk wrote:On December 07 2016 00:55 207aicila wrote:On December 07 2016 00:51 eviltomahawk wrote:
Everything I hear about Blizzard Korea makes me like that branch less and less. Maybe they did lose a bunch of good talent to Riot back in the day. Maybe they are just out of touch. I wonder if things would've been different if Mike Morhaime had been in the room since that guy seems do actually care about Starcraft. Morhaime's such a great dude, I shudder to think how much worse things would be if it weren't for his passion for the game. His passion is what's keeping the game afloat through Blizzard's direct support. Any other company would've abandoned ship earlier under these conditions. I even heard that he regretted sinking the BW pro scene and how they handled the entire switch. Exactly, it's at the very least not Morhaime beheading the game. Every time he talks about his games it's like a dad boasting about his son's football play. There is Activision to consider here. That alone explains a lot of things blizz did in regards to many of its games.
Activision and Blizzard, while partners in many ways, are not linked operating wise.
/
Also, people really need to assess the fact that writing the word purposefully in a sentence regarding Blizzard ending the life of two of the biggest e-sports games ever. There are many factors to consider in something as crazy as this situation, and I have been mad at Blizzard for many a patch change, but linking the situation that happened with Brood War to this situation is not really appropriate. This time, the game never really had a footing with anything other than a solid, small fanbase, and got, most likely not intentionally, put in the position where it was the game that came during a generational switch in e-sports, with the free-to-play genre exploding. StarCraft II still did quite alright considering, and while some actions by the developer were questionable, like the queen change of May 2012, a lot of it was good. At the very least, it's not Blizzard as an entity that slayed the game, but a multitude of factors like match fixing, a divided fanbase with different opinions on what StarCraft should be, bad seeds in Blizzard KR, and maybe even a mismatch between the current e-sports demographic and the people who have watched since forever.
Also, one can appreciate a lot of the players in their former habitat, or find a new flavor of e-sports now. Maybe for the best?
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Oh by the way, JackONeil, your posting is atrocious. Read what you are writing and try to get some better outlook on how you are framing yourself and who you are speaking to. It's incredible how you are just coming up with random ass Trump-esque statements about how much the establishment sucks and then justifying it by telling people that your money is so valuable it can't ever go into Blizzard's games again.
----
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On December 07 2016 09:03 LongShot27 wrote:
Also in response to the title of the article and the few true SC2 fans that remain even after this traumatic experience:
"My brethren, hear me, for there is little time left. All that remains of our race, our civilization, are those that stand beside you now. Trust in each other. Strike as one will. Let our last stand burn a memory so bright we will be remembered forever. En taro Tassadar!"
You say that you love starcraft but refer to SC2 fans in third person + you keep spewing out jokes or whatever you want to call it
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On December 06 2016 23:32 aQuaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 23:30 sharkie wrote:
and to think how many people got warned or banned on TL because they were speaking the things Stork actually confirmed for us now heh They were not speaking, they were gossiping
Well it's a good thing the mods lowered the player base by banning those people and proving them right. They have saved them from countless of potential wasted hours into this dead game. They have probably all migrated to reddit and are enjoying different outlets, such as csgo, dota2, hearthstone, overwatch, and like 213127389 other games
I used to frequent TL a lot, but the mods here are nazis, absolutely unacceptable... I won't miss this cesspool of shitstains at all.
Goodbye you NAZI MODS 
-shekyeung
"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Letter To Henry L. Pierce and Others" (April 6, 1858), p. 376.
User was banned for this post.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On December 07 2016 09:39 BlackGosu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2016 23:32 aQuaSC wrote:On December 06 2016 23:30 sharkie wrote:
and to think how many people got warned or banned on TL because they were speaking the things Stork actually confirmed for us now heh They were not speaking, they were gossiping Well it's a good thing the mods lowered the player base by banning those people and proving them right. They have saved them from countless of potential wasted hours into this dead game. They have probably all migrated to reddit and are enjoying different outlets, such as csgo, dota2, hearthstone, overwatch, and like 213127389 other games
I used to frequent TL a lot, but the mods here are nazis, absolutely unacceptable... I won't miss this cesspool of shitstains at all.
Goodbye you NAZI MODS
-shekyeung
"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Letter To Henry L. Pierce and Others" (April 6, 1858), p. 376.
I don't get it, is this some kind of spicy meme.
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On December 07 2016 09:43 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 09:39 BlackGosu wrote:On December 06 2016 23:32 aQuaSC wrote:On December 06 2016 23:30 sharkie wrote:
and to think how many people got warned or banned on TL because they were speaking the things Stork actually confirmed for us now heh They were not speaking, they were gossiping Well it's a good thing the mods lowered the player base by banning those people and proving them right. They have saved them from countless of potential wasted hours into this dead game. They have probably all migrated to reddit and are enjoying different outlets, such as csgo, dota2, hearthstone, overwatch, and like 213127389 other games
I used to frequent TL a lot, but the mods here are nazis, absolutely unacceptable... I won't miss this cesspool of shitstains at all.
Goodbye you NAZI MODS
-shekyeung
"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Letter To Henry L. Pierce and Others" (April 6, 1858), p. 376. I don't get it, is this some kind of spicy meme.
No just people venting for being treated like shit because they pointed out facts and were told they were "dead game" trolls.
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On December 07 2016 09:29 aQuaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 09:03 LongShot27 wrote:
Also in response to the title of the article and the few true SC2 fans that remain even after this traumatic experience:
"My brethren, hear me, for there is little time left. All that remains of our race, our civilization, are those that stand beside you now. Trust in each other. Strike as one will. Let our last stand burn a memory so bright we will be remembered forever. En taro Tassadar!" You say that you love starcraft but refer to SC2 fans in third person + you keep spewing out jokes or whatever you want to call it
Man using a single player quote to show solidarity with the people who are still clinging to a game they love out of principle is a really shit thing to do. Do you even think before you type?
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Wow. ....wow. So i played brood war super casually, completely oblivious to the pro-scean or even how to be good at the game. (The only reason i ever used hotkeys in bw was to prepare for Sc2 ha)
While Sc2 may not be a perfect coincidence of balance and design, like Broodwar was. I still prefer playing Sc2, due to the fact i believe it functions how a modern rts should, with unlimited unit selection and such. So when people were starting to move back to BW, i was actually a bit frustrated to see the scene fracturing like that.
Though given these Stork revelations, they have totally redirected my anger to Blizzard. And have given me one player that i hope can become dominant again in Stork.
Also have an even greater level of respect for all the pros who continue to play sc2.
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On December 07 2016 09:49 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 09:29 aQuaSC wrote:On December 07 2016 09:03 LongShot27 wrote:
Also in response to the title of the article and the few true SC2 fans that remain even after this traumatic experience:
"My brethren, hear me, for there is little time left. All that remains of our race, our civilization, are those that stand beside you now. Trust in each other. Strike as one will. Let our last stand burn a memory so bright we will be remembered forever. En taro Tassadar!" You say that you love starcraft but refer to SC2 fans in third person + you keep spewing out jokes or whatever you want to call it Man using a single player quote to show solidarity with the people who are still clinging to a game they love out of principle is a really shit thing to do. Do you even think before you type?
Clearly you don't, so why should he?
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On December 07 2016 09:52 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 09:49 LongShot27 wrote:On December 07 2016 09:29 aQuaSC wrote:On December 07 2016 09:03 LongShot27 wrote:
Also in response to the title of the article and the few true SC2 fans that remain even after this traumatic experience:
"My brethren, hear me, for there is little time left. All that remains of our race, our civilization, are those that stand beside you now. Trust in each other. Strike as one will. Let our last stand burn a memory so bright we will be remembered forever. En taro Tassadar!" You say that you love starcraft but refer to SC2 fans in third person + you keep spewing out jokes or whatever you want to call it Man using a single player quote to show solidarity with the people who are still clinging to a game they love out of principle is a really shit thing to do. Do you even think before you type? Clearly you don't, so why should he?
"I know you are but what am I" that's your comeback? Really? We've come full circle back to kindergarten.
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On December 07 2016 09:48 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 09:43 Plexa wrote:On December 07 2016 09:39 BlackGosu wrote:On December 06 2016 23:32 aQuaSC wrote:On December 06 2016 23:30 sharkie wrote:
and to think how many people got warned or banned on TL because they were speaking the things Stork actually confirmed for us now heh They were not speaking, they were gossiping Well it's a good thing the mods lowered the player base by banning those people and proving them right. They have saved them from countless of potential wasted hours into this dead game. They have probably all migrated to reddit and are enjoying different outlets, such as csgo, dota2, hearthstone, overwatch, and like 213127389 other games
I used to frequent TL a lot, but the mods here are nazis, absolutely unacceptable... I won't miss this cesspool of shitstains at all.
Goodbye you NAZI MODS
-shekyeung
"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Letter To Henry L. Pierce and Others" (April 6, 1858), p. 376. I don't get it, is this some kind of spicy meme. No just people venting for being treated like shit because they pointed out facts and were told they were "dead game" trolls.
poisoning the forums with your dead game memes isn't pointing out facts
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On December 07 2016 09:54 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 09:48 LongShot27 wrote:On December 07 2016 09:43 Plexa wrote:On December 07 2016 09:39 BlackGosu wrote:On December 06 2016 23:32 aQuaSC wrote:On December 06 2016 23:30 sharkie wrote:
and to think how many people got warned or banned on TL because they were speaking the things Stork actually confirmed for us now heh They were not speaking, they were gossiping Well it's a good thing the mods lowered the player base by banning those people and proving them right. They have saved them from countless of potential wasted hours into this dead game. They have probably all migrated to reddit and are enjoying different outlets, such as csgo, dota2, hearthstone, overwatch, and like 213127389 other games
I used to frequent TL a lot, but the mods here are nazis, absolutely unacceptable... I won't miss this cesspool of shitstains at all.
Goodbye you NAZI MODS
-shekyeung
"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Letter To Henry L. Pierce and Others" (April 6, 1858), p. 376. I don't get it, is this some kind of spicy meme. No just people venting for being treated like shit because they pointed out facts and were told they were "dead game" trolls. poisoning the forums with your dead game memes isn't pointing out facts
Everything isn't a meme kid, some people actually use part of something they enjoyed in a sincere way. And Im one of the few people on this site who's never called starcraft a dead game, who has actually tried to help new players get into following the pro scene, who's written articles about every god forsaken tournament that you'll refuse to watch, who's defended players and fans from attacks by would-be "esports journalists", who's called out shit players and personalities who treat the community like it's their own personal playground, don't you ever call spreading facts and trying to help a struggling game poison you self righteous, pretentious keyboard warrior.
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On December 07 2016 09:49 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 09:29 aQuaSC wrote:On December 07 2016 09:03 LongShot27 wrote:
Also in response to the title of the article and the few true SC2 fans that remain even after this traumatic experience:
"My brethren, hear me, for there is little time left. All that remains of our race, our civilization, are those that stand beside you now. Trust in each other. Strike as one will. Let our last stand burn a memory so bright we will be remembered forever. En taro Tassadar!" You say that you love starcraft but refer to SC2 fans in third person + you keep spewing out jokes or whatever you want to call it Man using a single player quote to show solidarity with the people who are still clinging to a game they love out of principle is a really shit thing to do. Do you even think before you type?
Don't get me wrong, but given how serious the situation is it felt kind of cheesy so I took it as a joke
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On December 07 2016 09:48 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 09:43 Plexa wrote:On December 07 2016 09:39 BlackGosu wrote:On December 06 2016 23:32 aQuaSC wrote:On December 06 2016 23:30 sharkie wrote:
and to think how many people got warned or banned on TL because they were speaking the things Stork actually confirmed for us now heh They were not speaking, they were gossiping Well it's a good thing the mods lowered the player base by banning those people and proving them right. They have saved them from countless of potential wasted hours into this dead game. They have probably all migrated to reddit and are enjoying different outlets, such as csgo, dota2, hearthstone, overwatch, and like 213127389 other games
I used to frequent TL a lot, but the mods here are nazis, absolutely unacceptable... I won't miss this cesspool of shitstains at all.
Goodbye you NAZI MODS
-shekyeung
"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Letter To Henry L. Pierce and Others" (April 6, 1858), p. 376. I don't get it, is this some kind of spicy meme. No just people venting for being treated like shit because they pointed out facts and were told they were "dead game" trolls.
There are lots and lots of people who are realistic about sc2's situation who didn't get in trouble with mods even a single time. I wonder how that is possible, hmmmm.
Maybe you shouldn't pretend that "dead game" spaming is "pointing out facts", that might be it?
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Accidental double post, please delete
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MVP didnt lose his G5L for this ;-;
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On December 07 2016 09:51 Cyanocyst wrote:
Wow. ....wow. So i played brood war super casually, completely oblivious to the pro-scean or even how to be good at the game. (The only reason i ever used hotkeys in bw was to prepare for Sc2 ha)
While Sc2 may not be a perfect coincidence of balance and design, like Broodwar was. I still prefer playing Sc2, due to the fact i believe it functions how a modern rts should, with unlimited unit selection and such. So when people were starting to move back to BW, i was actually a bit frustrated to see the scene fracturing like that.
Though given these Stork revelations, they have totally redirected my anger to Blizzard. And have given me one player that i hope can become dominant again in Stork.
Also have an even greater level of respect for all the pros who continue to play sc2.
Everyone likes Stork...even White-Ra who he fucked out of a top 3 at WCG 2007 by losing on purpose. He's just likable.
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Germany25649 Posts
On December 07 2016 10:01 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 09:54 Charoisaur wrote:On December 07 2016 09:48 LongShot27 wrote:On December 07 2016 09:43 Plexa wrote:On December 07 2016 09:39 BlackGosu wrote:On December 06 2016 23:32 aQuaSC wrote:On December 06 2016 23:30 sharkie wrote:
and to think how many people got warned or banned on TL because they were speaking the things Stork actually confirmed for us now heh They were not speaking, they were gossiping Well it's a good thing the mods lowered the player base by banning those people and proving them right. They have saved them from countless of potential wasted hours into this dead game. They have probably all migrated to reddit and are enjoying different outlets, such as csgo, dota2, hearthstone, overwatch, and like 213127389 other games
I used to frequent TL a lot, but the mods here are nazis, absolutely unacceptable... I won't miss this cesspool of shitstains at all.
Goodbye you NAZI MODS
-shekyeung
"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Letter To Henry L. Pierce and Others" (April 6, 1858), p. 376. I don't get it, is this some kind of spicy meme. No just people venting for being treated like shit because they pointed out facts and were told they were "dead game" trolls. poisoning the forums with your dead game memes isn't pointing out facts Everything isn't a meme kid, some people actually use part of something they enjoyed in a sincere way. And Im one of the few people on this site who's never called starcraft a dead game, who has actually tried to help new players get into following the pro scene, who's written articles about every god forsaken tournament that you'll refuse to watch, who's defended players and fans from attacks by would-be "esports journalists", who's called out shit players and personalities who treat the community like it's their own personal playground, don't you ever call spreading facts and trying to help a struggling game poison you self righteous, pretentious keyboard warrior.
Man I'm sure this post is going to spark a totally rational discussion. If you want to fight, please take it to PM, otherwise at least try to be civil.
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On December 07 2016 06:57 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 06:56 BaronVonOwn wrote:
I'm convinced that Jimmy is either a secret Blizzard PR account... Or he desperately wants to work at Blizzard. i'm merely a consumer who spends money in exchange for interactive entertainment products. Blizzard is a good option for my cash relative to my other options. Most of the moaning, whining, and complaining comes from other consumers who believe they are junior game designers. anyhow , if you want to get a game of C&C4 going... lemme know how that goes.
You love to compare SC2 to other RTS games. But you always choose one of the losers like C&C. What about Brood War? Why is BW resurging while SC2 is 6 feet under? Even going by your own standards, this proves everything you say is wrong. There is a market for RTS, and it's headed towards BW because SC2 is the inferior product.
You can call it "amateur game design" if you want but I know what I want in an RTS, I know why my friends quit, and I've listened to the opinions of many other gamers on why they don't play SC2. They all say the same thing and it's honestly not rocket science.
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I'm so surprised a lot of people is rage at Blizzard on this topic. I know this is sad, I feel sad too, but really understandable if you are matured adult.
Image your boss is trying to use a lot of money for dwindling and not promising project despite there are other growing and promising project.
If Blizzard completely stop development of SC2 and support for SC2 e-sports now, I may get rage like you , but they are still supporting this game.
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On December 07 2016 10:21 horrypotter wrote:
I'm so surprised a lot of people is rage at Blizzard on this topic. I know this is sad, I feel sad too, but really understandable if you are matured adult.
Image your boss is trying to use a lot of money for dwindling and not promising project despite there are other growing and promising project.
If Blizzard completely stop development of SC2 and support for SC2 e-sports now, I may get rage like you , but they are still supporting this game.
No one is angry that blizzard stopped caring. They're angry they lied about caring and said everything was ok. It's one thing to cut your losses, its another thing to treat people like they can't handle the truth. Well maybe not no one but anyone with a lick of sense.
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On December 07 2016 10:20 BaronVonOwn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 06:57 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On December 07 2016 06:56 BaronVonOwn wrote:
I'm convinced that Jimmy is either a secret Blizzard PR account... Or he desperately wants to work at Blizzard. i'm merely a consumer who spends money in exchange for interactive entertainment products. Blizzard is a good option for my cash relative to my other options. Most of the moaning, whining, and complaining comes from other consumers who believe they are junior game designers. anyhow , if you want to get a game of C&C4 going... lemme know how that goes. You love to compare SC2 to other RTS games. But you always choose one of the losers like C&C. What about Brood War? Why is BW resurging while SC2 is 6 feet under? Even going by your own standards, this proves everything you say is wrong. There is a market for RTS, and it's headed towards BW because SC2 is the inferior product. You can call it "amateur game design" if you want but I know what I want in an RTS, I know why my friends quit, and I've listened to the opinions of many other gamers on why they don't play SC2. They all say the same thing and it's honestly not rocket science.
BW is having a resurgence because of its history in korea and because of the personalities that play it.
Outside of korea it's not big at all. not saying BW isn't an amazing game but there are other factors for the resurgence other than that it's so much better than sc2.
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On December 07 2016 10:24 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 10:20 BaronVonOwn wrote:On December 07 2016 06:57 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On December 07 2016 06:56 BaronVonOwn wrote:
I'm convinced that Jimmy is either a secret Blizzard PR account... Or he desperately wants to work at Blizzard. i'm merely a consumer who spends money in exchange for interactive entertainment products. Blizzard is a good option for my cash relative to my other options. Most of the moaning, whining, and complaining comes from other consumers who believe they are junior game designers. anyhow , if you want to get a game of C&C4 going... lemme know how that goes. You love to compare SC2 to other RTS games. But you always choose one of the losers like C&C. What about Brood War? Why is BW resurging while SC2 is 6 feet under? Even going by your own standards, this proves everything you say is wrong. There is a market for RTS, and it's headed towards BW because SC2 is the inferior product. You can call it "amateur game design" if you want but I know what I want in an RTS, I know why my friends quit, and I've listened to the opinions of many other gamers on why they don't play SC2. They all say the same thing and it's honestly not rocket science. BW is having a resurgence because of its history in korea and because of the personalities that play it. Outside of korea it's not big at all. not saying BW isn't an amazing game but there are other factors for the resurgence other than that it's so much better than sc2.
I think you're underplaying how rich it is fora viewer compared to SC2
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On December 07 2016 10:24 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 10:20 BaronVonOwn wrote:On December 07 2016 06:57 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On December 07 2016 06:56 BaronVonOwn wrote:
I'm convinced that Jimmy is either a secret Blizzard PR account... Or he desperately wants to work at Blizzard. i'm merely a consumer who spends money in exchange for interactive entertainment products. Blizzard is a good option for my cash relative to my other options. Most of the moaning, whining, and complaining comes from other consumers who believe they are junior game designers. anyhow , if you want to get a game of C&C4 going... lemme know how that goes. You love to compare SC2 to other RTS games. But you always choose one of the losers like C&C. What about Brood War? Why is BW resurging while SC2 is 6 feet under? Even going by your own standards, this proves everything you say is wrong. There is a market for RTS, and it's headed towards BW because SC2 is the inferior product. You can call it "amateur game design" if you want but I know what I want in an RTS, I know why my friends quit, and I've listened to the opinions of many other gamers on why they don't play SC2. They all say the same thing and it's honestly not rocket science. BW is having a resurgence because of its history in korea and because of the personalities that play it. Outside of korea it's not big at all. not saying BW isn't an amazing game but there are other factors for the resurgence other than that it's so much better than sc2.
This, I don't think BW would be still that active in Korea if all the big names stopped playing the game (not saying that everyone would stop playing all of a sudden).
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is Brood War's resurgence due to Blizzard pumping money and resources into it? i doubt it.
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On December 07 2016 11:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
is Brood War's resurgence due to Blizzard pumping money and resources into it? i doubt it.
Obviously it's Korean community carrying Brood War, SC2 in general was very unlucky with its community over the years. Aside from never having a chance of being a game of its own, looked at only as it being a sequel to BW with very high expectations (you know, sequel must be so much better objectively, it can't be just different).
Sure, Blizzard and tournament organizers made some poor moves over the years trying to cater to the community but it is not the only problem with the game. Region lock was pushed by ESL/DH as a response to dwindling viewership because of constant Koreans at the top and no chance for local competition - in my opinion it made sense to some extent, but being set up with Korean scene already being invested and in a way dependent on strangling other players with no infrastructure it resulted with what we have today. They tried to do what people wanted, but people changed their minds once Koreans started to lose interest thanks to being locked out from tournaments they wanted to participate in.
But it should never be ignored that if not for SC2, competitive gaming and streaming would not look as they do right now.
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On December 07 2016 10:24 Charoisaur wrote:
BW is having a resurgence because of its history in korea and because of the personalities that play it.
Outside of korea it's not big at all. not saying BW isn't an amazing game but there are other factors for the resurgence other than that it's so much better than sc2.
Those personalities all switched to playing SC2 but it didn't work out so well did it? If SC2 was more faithful, it could have inherited that Brood War history, but instead it is seen as a pretender to the throne and it has been rejected by the loyal fans.
I think it's wrong to be mad at Blizzard now. They've invested a lot into SC2, they've done right by me even if I dislike most of the design choices that differentiate it from BW. I am hoping that this Brood War HD thing turns out to be true, I think it's the way forward and I hope Blizzard sees that too.
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Stork fighting!
I am overwhelmingly happy to see BW flourishing with the ASL and all the old gods returning for one last hurrah .
What happened with SC2 is really disappointing.
Personally, in game, I think the two things that would really help encourage players to keep playing are new maps for every mode (particularly team games, please...) and for Blizzard and the community to figure out a final form of balance patch for the year so that we can stop changing and redacting changes...I'm talking about the hydralisk, ofc, lol.
If this scene has a drought, then the only thing to be done is to focus on revitalizing the heart of the game. Not balance whine, or shitting on the developers...
Just mix it up with a ton of new maps for every mode (besides just 1v1) and decide on a final patch so that things can settle down and people can actually enjoy playing with the new changes without the weight of knowing they're already going to be changed yet again...I'd bet you quite a bit that a ton of people would return to the game if we could finally get some new 2v2 maps after over a year, lol.
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On December 07 2016 10:23 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 10:21 horrypotter wrote:
I'm so surprised a lot of people is rage at Blizzard on this topic. I know this is sad, I feel sad too, but really understandable if you are matured adult.
Image your boss is trying to use a lot of money for dwindling and not promising project despite there are other growing and promising project.
If Blizzard completely stop development of SC2 and support for SC2 e-sports now, I may get rage like you , but they are still supporting this game. No one is angry that blizzard stopped caring. They're angry they lied about caring and said everything was ok. It's one thing to cut your losses, its another thing to treat people like they can't handle the truth. Well maybe not no one but anyone with a lick of sense.
everyone should be able to see right through that shit based on so many things.
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On December 07 2016 11:49 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 10:23 LongShot27 wrote:On December 07 2016 10:21 horrypotter wrote:
I'm so surprised a lot of people is rage at Blizzard on this topic. I know this is sad, I feel sad too, but really understandable if you are matured adult.
Image your boss is trying to use a lot of money for dwindling and not promising project despite there are other growing and promising project.
If Blizzard completely stop development of SC2 and support for SC2 e-sports now, I may get rage like you , but they are still supporting this game. No one is angry that blizzard stopped caring. They're angry they lied about caring and said everything was ok. It's one thing to cut your losses, its another thing to treat people like they can't handle the truth. Well maybe not no one but anyone with a lick of sense. everyone should be able to see right through that shit based on so many things.
Alot of people were, alot of them got banned for it, alot of them just gave up on starcraft. And some people genuinely wanted to believe it wasn't happening
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🖕 Blizzard, would have been nice if you at least once tried delegating to the community before you gave up.
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On December 07 2016 12:11 Marl wrote:
🖕 Blizzard, would have been nice if you at least once tried delegating to the community before you gave up.
What do you mean
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lol now you know why Kim Phan gave all sorts of PR non answers in that TL interview.
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it's a dayum shame. seems like they just wanted to move on then sadly
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A perfect marine split against banelings on creep is still the most satisfying thing in any game, ever. I love Brood War and still play it, I love SC2 and still play it.
Some people just need to understand that hardcore RTS games aren't for everybody :-) Our scene will never be big again, no matter what Blizzard, Blizzard Korea, KeSPA or anyone else does. Let's enjoy these wonderful games in our smaller scenes instead of being disappointed that we're not as big as other games.
I still play and support QuakeWorld (quake 1, essentially) and even stream and commentate it during tournaments. That scene has like 200 players nowadays.
Doesn't matter how big our scene is or if Proleague was discontinued. We still find games within 1 minute when searching for a game on the ladder. Proleague was fun to watch of course, and it was the only 'real team league', but the world doesn't end because Proleague did. If you're into watching high level SC2 or high level BW, there will still be games of very high level to watch.
The decline in our scene is to be expected, and frankly I'm not sad about it at all, because these youngsters who played Starcraft just because it was the flavor of the month in 2011 had a tendency of being quite toxic.
Let's enjoy these two great games and have fun on the ladder. I've found that two base battlecruiser build that uThermal did to be real fun to do on the ladder. Try it!
So long~
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On December 07 2016 13:29 sd_andeh wrote:
A perfect marine split against banelings on creep is still the most satisfying thing in any game, ever. I love Brood War and still play it, I love SC2 and still play it.
Some people just need to understand that hardcore RTS games aren't for everybody :-) Our scene will never be big again, no matter what Blizzard, Blizzard Korea, KeSPA or anyone else does. Let's enjoy these wonderful games in our smaller scenes instead of being disappointed that we're not as big as other games.
I still play and support QuakeWorld (quake 1, essentially) and even stream and commentate it during tournaments. That scene has like 200 players nowadays.
Doesn't matter how big our scene is or if Proleague was discontinued. We still find games within 1 minute when searching for a game on the ladder. Proleague was fun to watch of course, and it was the only 'real team league', but the world doesn't end because Proleague did. If you're into watching high level SC2 or high level BW, there will still be games of very high level to watch.
The decline in our scene is to be expected, and frankly I'm not sad about it at all, because these youngsters who played Starcraft just because it was the flavor of the month in 2011 had a tendency of being quite toxic.
Let's enjoy these two great games and have fun on the ladder. I've found that two base battlecruiser build that uThermal did to be real fun to do on the ladder. Try it!
So long~
yeah, a small but very passionate scene can really be more enjoyable than a huge mainstream scene.
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I don't expect Starcraft to be the top esport anymore. But I think it can have better viewership than such esport juggernauts as Runescape and Destiny, which it now consistently places behind on Twitch.
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Destiny is an esport now? I'm slightly intrigued. Tell me more...
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South Korea2105 Posts
It's a shame all the dirt is surfacing now. Had the community heard of this sooner, things might have gone a different way. I understand why Stork or anyone else would be hesitant to talk about issues like this, or the salary collusion claims made a few weeks ago mainly by Flash. I certainly hope the Korean community becomes vocal about this. It's going to be rather difficult to rebuild the scene without the support of KeSPA and Blizzard, but if the main companies (i.e. Afreeca) make the right decisions then at least individual competition can still keep going.
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Having witnessed the 50 viewers bw streams of 2012 where 60% of the twitch chat were "why playing dead game"/ "eye-cancer"-comments - and returning from your 60k viewers stream to read this thread - and realizing that the sc2 trolls from then now actively are trolling sc2 makes it really hard not to use the "feels good" meme.
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On December 07 2016 15:18 ZiggyPG wrote:
It's a shame all the dirt is surfacing now. Had the community heard of this sooner, things might have gone a different way. I understand why Stork or anyone else would be hesitant to talk about issues like this, or the salary collusion claims made a few weeks ago mainly by Flash. I certainly hope the Korean community becomes vocal about this. It's going to be rather difficult to rebuild the scene without the support of KeSPA and Blizzard, but if the main companies (i.e. Afreeca) make the right decisions then at least individual competition can still keep going.
Difficult is an understatement. Nigh impossible is more accurate, but men can dream. And so we do.
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People actually thought Blizzard cared about SC2?
Actions speak louder than words and the game has been mismanaged in multiple areas for way too long to seriously believe anything else.
When is the community going to make a SC2 mod and rally around it? Come on Team Liquid, you know you need to.
There is still time for a happy ending.
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South Korea2105 Posts
By the way, what are the chances of BW SPL being the 'alternative' here, given the recent increase in popularity of the game? Or are we for sure talking of Overwatch? Could Blizzard in any way generate revenue from BW events?
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On December 07 2016 18:30 ZiggyPG wrote:
By the way, what are the chances of BW SPL being the 'alternative' here, given the recent increase in popularity of the game? Or are we for sure talking of Overwatch? Could Blizzard in any way generate revenue from BW events?
BW has very little audience outside of Korea, if they got 10k on the English steam consistently they'd be shocked. So it would all have to be all localized in Korea. It is very unlikely anything even resembling pro-league would happen, something small, non season structured, perhaps, but it would take alot more than what they have now.
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South Korea2105 Posts
Well yeah, but it's always been like this. StarCraft 2 is popular outside of Korea, Blizzard can roll with that, whislt KeSPA could benefit from the influx of competition in SC1.
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On December 07 2016 18:38 ZiggyPG wrote:
Well yeah, but it's always been like this. StarCraft 2 is popular outside of Korea, Blizzard can roll with that, whislt KeSPA could benefit from the influx of competition in SC1.
The biggest thing here is people need to not rely on Blizzard, they've proven they can't handle...well anything.
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South Korea2105 Posts
But ultimately they still hold all the rights to the game, don't they? So if they don't approve of SC as an esport in Korea, because they feel they can make more money by promoting Overwatch, they can tell tournament organisers to bugger off... Isn't that how things work?
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On December 07 2016 19:07 ZiggyPG wrote:
But ultimately they still hold all the rights to the game, don't they? So if they don't approve of SC as an esport in Korea, because they feel they can make more money by promoting Overwatch, they can tell tournament organisers to bugger off... Isn't that how things work?
They can't tell you you can't host a tournament, what they can do is tie you up on legal red tape about them receiving a cut of your revenue because they own the rights to the game. Make it so you can't say or promote certain things etc.
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South Korea2105 Posts
So basically the same goal can be achieved through slightly different means. That's some bad PR but still, a machiavellian approach would yield similar results to them openly saying 'we dont want SC tourneys'.
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On December 07 2016 18:34 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 18:30 ZiggyPG wrote:
By the way, what are the chances of BW SPL being the 'alternative' here, given the recent increase in popularity of the game? Or are we for sure talking of Overwatch? Could Blizzard in any way generate revenue from BW events? BW has very little audience outside of Korea, if they got 10k on the English steam consistently they'd be shocked. So it would all have to be all localized in Korea. It is very unlikely anything even resembling pro-league would happen, something small, non season structured, perhaps, but it would take alot more than what they have now.
You mean how Proleague was always run in BW? Sign me up.
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On December 07 2016 08:48 StarscreamG1 wrote:For the tl:dr guys ^_^
gfg <3 all my love to this crew
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Blizzard did well with SC2. Its maybe the best game of the Last decade. In a time where PC-Games getting closer to "Candycrush 3D" BLizzard supported SC2. A game that had some achievements, a REAL singleplayer, a MapEditor and a Matchmaking.
SC2 made Twitch almost singlehanded. SC2 made Esports.
Some say SC2 does not get much love from Blizzard anymore, what is very true to the Mulitplayer 1v1 competition.
All the casual Gamemodes get bombarded with Content.
I too think Blizzard turned its back on 1v1 Competetive SC2 LOTV,
Yet, the community, all the tools provided, could not come up with a serious alternative to the latest 1v1 ladderpatch. The closest thing ever was StarBow...that was maybe too radical, almost too Broodwaresque to pull people of the one button MM. Pro players won't join or arise because there was no money in it, and to be fair, thats the spot where SC2 is going now.
CS:Go was dead before the SkinZ sucked money from teenagers pockets, wc3 DOTA was too hard, so people played lol and pay to gain more EXP or get some skins. SC2 is not a game that can give a casual player the feeling of "PWNING", unlike CS and LOL. SC2 is demanding and will not give a shit about shiny skins. Noobs will get crushed. But it is still a good game.
I don't think Blizzard really wants to invest into changing the direction of SC2-1v1. The whole industry is going towards simple games with micro-transaction content, no singleplayer, no "deep" gameplay.
I respect SC2 as the last game that was truly great in it's core function without pleasing 12 year old kids, granting them faster advancement and shiny stuff for all their money.
And I think even Overwatch still stands on this.
Why we deserve factory new Candycrush-Cod-Lol?
Basicly gamers got to lazy to play without "MatchMAking" and too lazy to play Gamemodes that require 2 clicks more than "Find Game".
One way to revive love for sc2 can be to go all out vanilla and play some WoL. For me WoL had the best story, best moments, HotS and LotV could nor recreate that. Blizzard not wanting to host a vanilla WoL server is showing that a WoL competion would never have Blizzard support.
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On December 07 2016 19:43 KT_Elwood wrote:
One way to revive love for sc2 can be to go all out vanilla and play some WoL. For me WoL had the best story, best moments, HotS and LotV could nor recreate that. Blizzard not wanting to host a vanilla WoL server is showing that a WoL competion would never have Blizzard support.
WoL is still available to play with ladder and matchmaking. I'm not sure if the Grandmaster league is working with it, but all the other rankings should be working, plus custom games too. Seeing how the majority of LotV players probably already own WoL, playing it is just a few clicks away to change the expansion level.
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On December 07 2016 20:06 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 19:43 KT_Elwood wrote:
One way to revive love for sc2 can be to go all out vanilla and play some WoL. For me WoL had the best story, best moments, HotS and LotV could nor recreate that. Blizzard not wanting to host a vanilla WoL server is showing that a WoL competion would never have Blizzard support. WoL is still available to play with ladder and matchmaking. I'm not sure if the Grandmaster league is working with it, but all the other rankings should be working, plus custom games too. Seeing how the majority of LotV players probably already own WoL, playing it is just a few clicks away to change the expansion level.
No GM rank but he's right WoL was the best iteration of the game hands down. I wish they hadn't pushed the expansions being better so hard
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WOL had a lot of the excitement of a new Starcraft and it took some time to figure out all the broken IMO design decisions that made it unplayable at the end. HOTS failed IMO precisely because it did not fix the bad and added some extra bad of it's own.
Having said that, WOL TvT and TvZ was probably the best SC2 had to offer. Protoss was beyond bad in all MUs; deathballs and cheese.
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doesnt surprise me at all, blizzard doesnt give a shit about SC2 beeing a competetive E-sports. Its their game and their choice. still shitty to leave a community dying
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So many people got ridiculed, banned or just censored when saying things like "blizzard doesn't even care".. well I hope this bad practice of the TL mods will cease now that Stork himself said it. A man can dream, right ?
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I agree that there was a sweet spot in WoL between 2011 and 2012 which had some of the most entertaining metagames, though with some flawed metas too. I thought game quality did take a nosedive with the full onset of the Broodlord+Infestor era though.
I also think that HotS and LotV also had some genuinely entertaining and refreshing metas during their honeymoon phases, at least compared to the bad metas at the ends of the previous expansions. Even though the flaws eventually became overbearing, before then the solutions offered by the expansions didn't seem as wholly unreasonable.
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On December 07 2016 14:14 BaronVonOwn wrote:
I don't expect Starcraft to be the top esport anymore. But I think it can have better viewership than such esport juggernauts as Runescape and Destiny, which it now consistently places behind on Twitch.
StarCraft does get better viewership than RuneScape and Destiny, and pretty much everything outside of DotA/CS/LoL/HS, when it comes to esports but other games obviously have a lot more 'casual' streams. Most viewership on Twitch is not esports.
Blizzard ending support for proleague doesn't mean they don't care about SC2, telling everyone the game is suddenly dead now isn't stating facts or informing everyone that only you knew the real truth. SC2 still has a lot of support from Blizzard and has a strong scene that many other games would love to have. Things obviously aren't perfect or as good as they once were, but screaming at the top of your lungs everything is ruined is hardly an appropriate response.
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Another vote for WOL... Its main failing was protoss being broken, but they never managed to fix that in the expansions so it's better in every way. I might give the WOL queue a try, though I imagine it could take a while to find a game. A reddit thread I found says the queue times really aren't bad at all. I bet I'm a better all-around WOL player than I am at LOTV anyway
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Protoss isn't what fucked up WoL, it was BLI
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On December 08 2016 00:01 notgayDragon wrote:
Protoss isn't what fucked up WoL, it was BLI
PvP didn't help though. There'll never be a matchup dumber than WoL PvP
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On December 08 2016 00:30 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 00:01 notgayDragon wrote:
Protoss isn't what fucked up WoL, it was BLI PvP didn't help though. There'll never be a matchup dumber than WoL PvP
Yes... perhaps 4 gate or die and 1/1/1 pushes are repressed memories for some people. Every protoss matchup was seriously flawed. And in all matchups the protoss win condition was either a deathball or some kind of cheese. We should not romanticize WoL too much, it had its problems but it's still the least bad version.
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I seriously don't understand all the comments saying "Blizzard doesn't care about Starcraft 2 esports."
Holy shit, they've tried so hard to get it done. Maybe you don't agree with how they go about it, but the money and effort they've put into making SC2 a popular esport is immense. Saying they did it incorrectly? Maybe (Very much maybe). But saying that they don't care at all is just being willfully blind.
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They have put a ton of effort into SC2 as an eSport the problem is they are supporting a game that was lacking as an eSport. From the start the design of SC2 and focus on the eSport side, the highest level players, balancing around the highest portion of the game, was a flawed approach. They should have just made the game as dynamic and fun for all players as possible, then allow the pros to do incredible things within that infrastructure. That is what made BW so great to watch, it was fun to play from the basic "BGH" mass a unit games, to the most competitive highest level of 1v1. Then from a fan point of view you understood the units, the interaction, but were blown away with what the pros could get each unit to achieve.
That interaction was forced in SC2. For example, so many abilities. So they could say, "look at this pro he is doing so many things!" problem is the casual player just gets overwhelmed with the complexity. I think there was always a fear that SC2 with MBS, Smartcast, and other quality of life enhancements would diminish the appreciation for what pros could do. That they couldn't put some APS counter and have people blown away. But the reality is that pros would have differed themselves just like they did in BW with unit micro, positioning, new strategies, and it would have been impressive.
If the game was fun and dynamic at all levels, and enjoyed more by the masses then the support Blizzard offered the eSport side would have been more than enough. Problem is they made SC2 for the highest level, intense gamer, and over time casual players got frustrated and moved to games that you can hop on an hour or two a week and have fun.
That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with making a challenging game that takes time to master, but just don't be surprised when people aren't watching because they can't relate or appreciate what is going on.
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On December 08 2016 00:37 BaronVonOwn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 00:30 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On December 08 2016 00:01 notgayDragon wrote:
Protoss isn't what fucked up WoL, it was BLI PvP didn't help though. There'll never be a matchup dumber than WoL PvP Yes... perhaps 4 gate or die and 1/1/1 pushes are repressed memories for some people. Every protoss matchup was seriously flawed. And in all matchups the protoss win condition was either a deathball or some kind of cheese. We should not romanticize WoL too much, it had its problems but it's still the least bad version.
Nah no way. You can argue that some matchups were superior in the basic gameplay (tvt and tvz come to mind) (if we ignore broodlord infestor ofc) but every toss matchup was awfull and while i dislike the same matchups even in lotv, it still got better.
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I think the real tell that Blizzard doesn't give a shit about SC2 is that they want to make it the "premier RTS game". If you ignore Brood War, that isn't too hard to do, which is what they seem to be doing. They've essentially set the bar so low it would be next to impossible for them to not do that, so they can pat themselves on the back as playership and viewership drop to all-time lows.
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On December 08 2016 05:11 Solar424 wrote:
I think the real tell that Blizzard doesn't give a shit about SC2 is that they want to make it the "premier RTS game". If you ignore Brood War, that isn't too hard to do, which is what they seem to be doing. They've essentially set the bar so low it would be next to impossible for them to not do that, so they can pat themselves on the back as playership and viewership drop to all-time lows.
I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
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On December 08 2016 05:26 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 05:11 Solar424 wrote:
I think the real tell that Blizzard doesn't give a shit about SC2 is that they want to make it the "premier RTS game". If you ignore Brood War, that isn't too hard to do, which is what they seem to be doing. They've essentially set the bar so low it would be next to impossible for them to not do that, so they can pat themselves on the back as playership and viewership drop to all-time lows. I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Not a lot
I want to add my perspective:
- I play the game weekly for three hours and have a ton of fun (solid gold).
- The escalative crying about Blizz not caring is really dumb.
- The game is six years old. That's long for a video game! And it's not stopping yet.
- The whole case is severely lacking sources.
- Stork about streaming: "Please cheer on me. I promise to give it a lot of effort." Just how generic could he possibly be 
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On December 08 2016 05:26 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 05:11 Solar424 wrote:
I think the real tell that Blizzard doesn't give a shit about SC2 is that they want to make it the "premier RTS game". If you ignore Brood War, that isn't too hard to do, which is what they seem to be doing. They've essentially set the bar so low it would be next to impossible for them to not do that, so they can pat themselves on the back as playership and viewership drop to all-time lows. I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
Blizzard doesn't want to make SC2 a top eSports game, they just want to make it a top RTS game. Since the RTS market is basically nonexistent, they've set the bar really low so that they can put in the bare minimum of effort and shift resources to other games.
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On December 08 2016 08:30 Solar424 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 05:26 Ansibled wrote:On December 08 2016 05:11 Solar424 wrote:
I think the real tell that Blizzard doesn't give a shit about SC2 is that they want to make it the "premier RTS game". If you ignore Brood War, that isn't too hard to do, which is what they seem to be doing. They've essentially set the bar so low it would be next to impossible for them to not do that, so they can pat themselves on the back as playership and viewership drop to all-time lows. I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Blizzard doesn't want to make SC2 a top eSports game, they just want to make it a top RTS game. Since the RTS market is basically nonexistent, they've set the bar really low so that they can put in the bare minimum of effort and shift resources to other games.
SC2 is a top esports game.
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On December 08 2016 08:45 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 08:30 Solar424 wrote:On December 08 2016 05:26 Ansibled wrote:On December 08 2016 05:11 Solar424 wrote:
I think the real tell that Blizzard doesn't give a shit about SC2 is that they want to make it the "premier RTS game". If you ignore Brood War, that isn't too hard to do, which is what they seem to be doing. They've essentially set the bar so low it would be next to impossible for them to not do that, so they can pat themselves on the back as playership and viewership drop to all-time lows. I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Blizzard doesn't want to make SC2 a top eSports game, they just want to make it a top RTS game. Since the RTS market is basically nonexistent, they've set the bar really low so that they can put in the bare minimum of effort and shift resources to other games. SC2 is a top esports game.
The point is that they don't want SC2 to be able to compete with LoL and CS:GO, they just want to move on to make more Overwatch crates.
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On December 08 2016 08:48 Solar424 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 08:45 Ansibled wrote:On December 08 2016 08:30 Solar424 wrote:On December 08 2016 05:26 Ansibled wrote:On December 08 2016 05:11 Solar424 wrote:
I think the real tell that Blizzard doesn't give a shit about SC2 is that they want to make it the "premier RTS game". If you ignore Brood War, that isn't too hard to do, which is what they seem to be doing. They've essentially set the bar so low it would be next to impossible for them to not do that, so they can pat themselves on the back as playership and viewership drop to all-time lows. I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Blizzard doesn't want to make SC2 a top eSports game, they just want to make it a top RTS game. Since the RTS market is basically nonexistent, they've set the bar really low so that they can put in the bare minimum of effort and shift resources to other games. SC2 is a top esports game. The point is that they don't want SC2 to be able to compete with LoL and CS:GO, they just want to move on to make more Overwatch crates.
I think you'll agree that it's funny how things changed over the years - competitive game scenes were and some still are carried with little to no aid from developers (see Smash for instance, you could also argue about Brood War), but nowadays "esport" became a shitty ad term and is a mere part of games' marketing campaigns. If that's true, there is little incentive for Blizzard to put so many resources towards a 6-year old game that kids don't like, but there is no incentive for them to leave the game alone either, at least given their commitment to support their games. Blizzard will continue to support SC2, if it keeps going much further or even grows is on people passionate about it. Given how successful other games are at pulling kids to play them (even illegally, see CS:GO and their skins that revitalized the game), people got somewhat lazy and are waiting for Blizzard for every single thing about competitive scene. Which partially is true, Blizzard with their WCS is holding some hands from doing their moves.
Aside from that, game communities have grown a lot over the years and pulled over many people who are willing to go to the next flashy thing when it appears. They are not what they once where, small groups driven by passion alone and we got spoiled by that changing in a way. People who love the game will stay with the game, people who are bitter or jealous will keep bitching about it.
I personally can't believe that even mobile games have their own competitive scenes forced by developers.
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On December 06 2016 23:17 digmouse wrote:
This is infuriating...
To say the least.
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On December 08 2016 08:48 Solar424 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 08:45 Ansibled wrote:On December 08 2016 08:30 Solar424 wrote:On December 08 2016 05:26 Ansibled wrote:On December 08 2016 05:11 Solar424 wrote:
I think the real tell that Blizzard doesn't give a shit about SC2 is that they want to make it the "premier RTS game". If you ignore Brood War, that isn't too hard to do, which is what they seem to be doing. They've essentially set the bar so low it would be next to impossible for them to not do that, so they can pat themselves on the back as playership and viewership drop to all-time lows. I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Blizzard doesn't want to make SC2 a top eSports game, they just want to make it a top RTS game. Since the RTS market is basically nonexistent, they've set the bar really low so that they can put in the bare minimum of effort and shift resources to other games. SC2 is a top esports game. The point is that they don't want SC2 to be able to compete with LoL and CS:GO, they just want to move on to make more Overwatch crates.
Of course they don't. They want Heroes to compete with LoL and Overwatch to compete with CS:GO. I'm not sure what this is supposed to be proving.
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On December 08 2016 08:48 Solar424 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 08:45 Ansibled wrote:On December 08 2016 08:30 Solar424 wrote:On December 08 2016 05:26 Ansibled wrote:On December 08 2016 05:11 Solar424 wrote:
I think the real tell that Blizzard doesn't give a shit about SC2 is that they want to make it the "premier RTS game". If you ignore Brood War, that isn't too hard to do, which is what they seem to be doing. They've essentially set the bar so low it would be next to impossible for them to not do that, so they can pat themselves on the back as playership and viewership drop to all-time lows. I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Blizzard doesn't want to make SC2 a top eSports game, they just want to make it a top RTS game. Since the RTS market is basically nonexistent, they've set the bar really low so that they can put in the bare minimum of effort and shift resources to other games. SC2 is a top esports game. The point is that they don't want SC2 to be able to compete with LoL and CS:GO, they just want to move on to make more Overwatch crates.
Of course they want SC2 to compete with the highest earning/viewed esports game. But they realized SC2 wasn't going to have a chance after all these years of trying to make it work. They had to cut it loose eventually and sadly it's time has come. Blizzard is a company just like everyone else, you can't fault them for making a business decision.
I enjoyed SC2 when it first came out but by the time the 1st expansion came out the hype for it was done for me. If SC2 moving out of the way means BW has a chance to come back and I can watch all the old school BW idols duking it out again I'll happily accept it. Not to mention I adore Overwatch and more coverage with more tournaments is a good thing in my book.
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On December 08 2016 09:32 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 08:48 Solar424 wrote:On December 08 2016 08:45 Ansibled wrote:On December 08 2016 08:30 Solar424 wrote:On December 08 2016 05:26 Ansibled wrote:On December 08 2016 05:11 Solar424 wrote:
I think the real tell that Blizzard doesn't give a shit about SC2 is that they want to make it the "premier RTS game". If you ignore Brood War, that isn't too hard to do, which is what they seem to be doing. They've essentially set the bar so low it would be next to impossible for them to not do that, so they can pat themselves on the back as playership and viewership drop to all-time lows. I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Blizzard doesn't want to make SC2 a top eSports game, they just want to make it a top RTS game. Since the RTS market is basically nonexistent, they've set the bar really low so that they can put in the bare minimum of effort and shift resources to other games. SC2 is a top esports game. The point is that they don't want SC2 to be able to compete with LoL and CS:GO, they just want to move on to make more Overwatch crates. Of course they want SC2 to compete with the highest earning/viewed esports game. But they realized SC2 wasn't going to have a chance after all these years of trying to make it work. They had to cut it loose eventually and sadly it's time has come. Blizzard is a company just like everyone else, you can't fault them for making a business decision. I enjoyed SC2 when it first came out but by the time the 1st expansion came out the hype for it was done for me. If SC2 moving out of the way means BW has a chance to come back and I can watch all the old school BW idols duking it out again I'll happily accept it. Not to mention I adore Overwatch and more coverage with more tournaments is a good thing in my book.
Many people are like you and that's why the game declined - you just prefer other games than SC2. Nothing more to it
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On December 08 2016 09:36 aQuaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 09:32 Zooper31 wrote:On December 08 2016 08:48 Solar424 wrote:On December 08 2016 08:45 Ansibled wrote:On December 08 2016 08:30 Solar424 wrote:On December 08 2016 05:26 Ansibled wrote:On December 08 2016 05:11 Solar424 wrote:
I think the real tell that Blizzard doesn't give a shit about SC2 is that they want to make it the "premier RTS game". If you ignore Brood War, that isn't too hard to do, which is what they seem to be doing. They've essentially set the bar so low it would be next to impossible for them to not do that, so they can pat themselves on the back as playership and viewership drop to all-time lows. I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Blizzard doesn't want to make SC2 a top eSports game, they just want to make it a top RTS game. Since the RTS market is basically nonexistent, they've set the bar really low so that they can put in the bare minimum of effort and shift resources to other games. SC2 is a top esports game. The point is that they don't want SC2 to be able to compete with LoL and CS:GO, they just want to move on to make more Overwatch crates. Of course they want SC2 to compete with the highest earning/viewed esports game. But they realized SC2 wasn't going to have a chance after all these years of trying to make it work. They had to cut it loose eventually and sadly it's time has come. Blizzard is a company just like everyone else, you can't fault them for making a business decision. I enjoyed SC2 when it first came out but by the time the 1st expansion came out the hype for it was done for me. If SC2 moving out of the way means BW has a chance to come back and I can watch all the old school BW idols duking it out again I'll happily accept it. Not to mention I adore Overwatch and more coverage with more tournaments is a good thing in my book. Many people are like you and that's why the game declined - you just prefer other games than SC2. Nothing more to it
It is when glaring and deep-rooted flaws are passed off as purely subjective opinion that stagnation turns into something actively destructive.
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On December 08 2016 10:22 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 09:36 aQuaSC wrote:On December 08 2016 09:32 Zooper31 wrote:On December 08 2016 08:48 Solar424 wrote:On December 08 2016 08:45 Ansibled wrote:On December 08 2016 08:30 Solar424 wrote:On December 08 2016 05:26 Ansibled wrote:On December 08 2016 05:11 Solar424 wrote:
I think the real tell that Blizzard doesn't give a shit about SC2 is that they want to make it the "premier RTS game". If you ignore Brood War, that isn't too hard to do, which is what they seem to be doing. They've essentially set the bar so low it would be next to impossible for them to not do that, so they can pat themselves on the back as playership and viewership drop to all-time lows. I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Blizzard doesn't want to make SC2 a top eSports game, they just want to make it a top RTS game. Since the RTS market is basically nonexistent, they've set the bar really low so that they can put in the bare minimum of effort and shift resources to other games. SC2 is a top esports game. The point is that they don't want SC2 to be able to compete with LoL and CS:GO, they just want to move on to make more Overwatch crates. Of course they want SC2 to compete with the highest earning/viewed esports game. But they realized SC2 wasn't going to have a chance after all these years of trying to make it work. They had to cut it loose eventually and sadly it's time has come. Blizzard is a company just like everyone else, you can't fault them for making a business decision. I enjoyed SC2 when it first came out but by the time the 1st expansion came out the hype for it was done for me. If SC2 moving out of the way means BW has a chance to come back and I can watch all the old school BW idols duking it out again I'll happily accept it. Not to mention I adore Overwatch and more coverage with more tournaments is a good thing in my book. Many people are like you and that's why the game declined - you just prefer other games than SC2. Nothing more to it It is when glaring and deep-rooted flaws are passed off as purely subjective opinion that stagnation turns into something actively destructive.
While i love to talk about sc2's design and what i think are flaws i still realize that in the end it is completely subjective. We can set certain goals and then discuss it in this context, but if it's only about if you like a certain aspect, yes it is 100% subjective.
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Esports as a whole feels like companies saw Korean Brood War and said "Let's make money from this"
The term "esports" is already dead to me.
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On December 08 2016 00:37 BaronVonOwn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 00:30 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On December 08 2016 00:01 notgayDragon wrote:
Protoss isn't what fucked up WoL, it was BLI PvP didn't help though. There'll never be a matchup dumber than WoL PvP Yes... perhaps 4 gate or die and 1/1/1 pushes are repressed memories for some people. Every protoss matchup was seriously flawed. And in all matchups the protoss win condition was either a deathball or some kind of cheese. We should not romanticize WoL too much, it had its problems but it's still the least bad version.
I loved WOL. But you're absolutely right, it had some serious issues, and it is the least bad version.
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United Kingdom1667 Posts
I feel genuinely bad for all the Korean SC2 fans who have been totally had by Blizzard. Blizzard intentionally went waist-deep into Korean SC2 so that they could make the lions share of the profit, and then have the freedom to shuffle it off the mortal coil when it suited their business. In future, I hope anybody trying to create a healthy scene for a competitive game, be they players, tournament organisers, team owners, or a governing body, aren't lured in or just plainly ensnared by a big budget top-down model promising instant success, at the cost of allowing all control to be held by an ultimately unscrupulous party for whom the love of the game is simply not top priority.
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Stork is so awesome! BW scene is so much more interesting for some reason. The games are so sick.
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On December 08 2016 20:09 ImbaTosS wrote:
I feel genuinely bad for all the Korean SC2 fans who have been totally had by Blizzard. Blizzard intentionally went waist-deep into Korean SC2 so that they could make the lions share of the profit, and then have the freedom to shuffle it off the mortal coil when it suited their business. In future, I hope anybody trying to create a healthy scene for a competitive game, be they players, tournament organisers, team owners, or a governing body, aren't lured in or just plainly ensnared by a big budget top-down model promising instant success, at the cost of allowing all control to be held by an ultimately unscrupulous party for whom the love of the game is simply not top priority.
Do you seriously think that e-"Sports" is a profitable business ? It's a marketing strategy that increases the sales of copies/microtransactions. I'm pretty sure that Blizzard lost money from supporting the Korean SC2 scene.
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On December 07 2016 11:26 aQuaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 11:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
is Brood War's resurgence due to Blizzard pumping money and resources into it? i doubt it. Obviously it's Korean community carrying Brood War, SC2 in general was very unlucky with its community over the years. Aside from never having a chance of being a game of its own, looked at only as it being a sequel to BW with very high expectations (you know, sequel must be so much better objectively, it can't be just different). Sure, Blizzard and tournament organizers made some poor moves over the years trying to cater to the community but it is not the only problem with the game. Region lock was pushed by ESL/DH as a response to dwindling viewership because of constant Koreans at the top and no chance for local competition - in my opinion it made sense to some extent, but being set up with Korean scene already being invested and in a way dependent on strangling other players with no infrastructure it resulted with what we have today. They tried to do what people wanted, but people changed their minds once Koreans started to lose interest thanks to being locked out from tournaments they wanted to participate in. But it should never be ignored that if not for SC2, competitive gaming and streaming would not look as they do right now.
you must understand, if you watched the first GSL, there was a game in the semi finals (i think??) featuring BOXER vs NADA.
and you could see how small the studio was...people didn't care.
so it's hard to say why korea didn't really warm to sc2. at the announcement there was great excitement, but i think the final product was kinda disappointing. to be honest, i was disappointed too. the first few seasons were a cheese fest with terrible maps and capital ships sucked.
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On December 08 2016 23:28 shadymmj wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 11:26 aQuaSC wrote:On December 07 2016 11:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
is Brood War's resurgence due to Blizzard pumping money and resources into it? i doubt it. Obviously it's Korean community carrying Brood War, SC2 in general was very unlucky with its community over the years. Aside from never having a chance of being a game of its own, looked at only as it being a sequel to BW with very high expectations (you know, sequel must be so much better objectively, it can't be just different). Sure, Blizzard and tournament organizers made some poor moves over the years trying to cater to the community but it is not the only problem with the game. Region lock was pushed by ESL/DH as a response to dwindling viewership because of constant Koreans at the top and no chance for local competition - in my opinion it made sense to some extent, but being set up with Korean scene already being invested and in a way dependent on strangling other players with no infrastructure it resulted with what we have today. They tried to do what people wanted, but people changed their minds once Koreans started to lose interest thanks to being locked out from tournaments they wanted to participate in. But it should never be ignored that if not for SC2, competitive gaming and streaming would not look as they do right now. you must understand, if you watched the first GSL, there was a game in the semi finals (i think??) featuring BOXER vs NADA. and you could see how small the studio was...people didn't care. so it's hard to say why korea didn't really warm to sc2. at the announcement there was great excitement, but i think the final product was kinda disappointing. to be honest, i was disappointed too. the first few seasons were a cheese fest with terrible maps and capital ships sucked.
Against your point though, Boxer vs NaDa was the most watched VOD by far on the old Gom site with like 2 million views. And these are numbers from like 4 years ago.
But this brings another interesting point, that SC2 was most popular in Korea when the few recognizable figures that played it were still relevant as players. As to how strong the correlation is, hard to say.
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On December 08 2016 09:04 aQuaSC wrote:
I think you'll agree that it's funny how things changed over the years - competitive game scenes were and some still are carried with little to no aid from developers (see Smash for instance, you could also argue about Brood War), but nowadays "esport" became a shitty ad term and is a mere part of games' marketing campaigns. If that's true, there is little incentive for Blizzard to put so many resources towards a 6-year old game that kids don't like, but there is no incentive for them to leave the game alone either, at least given their commitment to support their games. Blizzard will continue to support SC2, if it keeps going much further or even grows is on people passionate about it.
Actually I wonder if they'll continue to invest in Starcraft. Starcraft had a great reputation before SC2. It had a huge and loyal fanbase and that's why SC2 had its initial success. Then people realized SC2 is not as good as SC1, and I think the Starcraft brand has been somewhat tarnished now. To be clear I'm not saying SC2 was a "bad" game, but casual and average gamers were turned off by it and they're going to remember those reasons, whatever they are.
For a lot of gamers, SC2 is the only Starcraft game they've ever played, it was their introduction to the franchise. The Brood War veterans have seen Starcraft at its best and know how good it can be, but they're getting pretty old to be hardcore gamers. So who is the audience for a theoretical Starcraft 3? I think it has to be a great game in its own right this time, it can't depend on its name and an existing community like SC2 did.
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On December 09 2016 00:11 BaronVonOwn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 09:04 aQuaSC wrote:
I think you'll agree that it's funny how things changed over the years - competitive game scenes were and some still are carried with little to no aid from developers (see Smash for instance, you could also argue about Brood War), but nowadays "esport" became a shitty ad term and is a mere part of games' marketing campaigns. If that's true, there is little incentive for Blizzard to put so many resources towards a 6-year old game that kids don't like, but there is no incentive for them to leave the game alone either, at least given their commitment to support their games. Blizzard will continue to support SC2, if it keeps going much further or even grows is on people passionate about it. Actually I wonder if they'll continue to invest in Starcraft. Starcraft had a great reputation before SC2. It had a huge and loyal fanbase and that's why SC2 had its initial success. Then people realized SC2 is not as good as SC1, and I think the Starcraft brand has been somewhat tarnished now. To be clear I'm not saying SC2 was a "bad" game, but casual and average gamers were turned off by it and they're going to remember those reasons, whatever they are. For a lot of gamers, SC2 is the only Starcraft game they've ever played, it was their introduction to the franchise. The Brood War veterans have seen Starcraft at its best and know how good it can be, but they're getting pretty old to be hardcore gamers. So who is the audience for a theoretical Starcraft 3? I think it has to be a great game in its own right this time, it can't depend on its name and an existing community like SC2 did.
Most people play it for the singleplayer, the multiplayer part of starcraft is irrelevant for most people. Then there are hardcore people (like the ones on TL) which are an even smaller portion of the overall playerbase. While i think it would be important to please the hardcore base, in the end we are tiny and blizzard probably doesn't have to care
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What on earth are you talking about? StarCraft still has a great reputation, and StarCraft 2 was a well received game.
http://www.metacritic.com/search/all/StarCraft/results?sort=score
Casual gamers weren't turned off by it, they played the campaign and then they quit. Although we also know that with LotV COOP has been very succesful. Saying that SC2 has tarnished the brand is a completely ridiculous claim.
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On December 09 2016 00:14 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Most people play it for the singleplayer, the multiplayer part of starcraft is irrelevant for most people. Then there are hardcore people (like the ones on TL) which are an even smaller portion of the overall playerbase. While i think it would be important to please the hardcore base, in the end we are tiny and blizzard probably doesn't have to care
Sure, but I don't see how that helps to rehabilitate Starcraft as a multiplayer/esports game. Those people aren't going to play multiplayer in any case. I see that it at least gives a financial incentive to develop Starcraft 3, and maybe multiplayer gamers will give it a chance because they're looking for something new.
But I disagree that multiplayer/hardcore gamers are tiny and irrelevant. Multiplayer games are kind of a gold rush right now. Just look at Blizzard's last 3 new releases: Overwatch, Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm. No single-player component. Would they repeatedly release multiplayer-only games if single-player was all that matters? I'm not saying I think Starcraft needs to be more hardcore - I think the problem is that its multiplayer component is too hardcore and wasn't accessible to the majority of gamers.
In fact I think being a mainstream esport like Brood War was in Korea is a holy grail for game marketers. We may be on the cusp of that when you look at Counter-Strike just starting to get mainstream TV network coverage. Reportedly TBS is very happy with E-League and are looking to expand.
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On December 08 2016 20:09 ImbaTosS wrote:
I feel genuinely bad for all the Korean SC2 fans who have been totally had by Blizzard. Blizzard intentionally went waist-deep into Korean SC2 so that they could make the lions share of the profit, and then have the freedom to shuffle it off the mortal coil when it suited their business. In future, I hope anybody trying to create a healthy scene for a competitive game, be they players, tournament organisers, team owners, or a governing body, aren't lured in or just plainly ensnared by a big budget top-down model promising instant success, at the cost of allowing all control to be held by an ultimately unscrupulous party for whom the love of the game is simply not top priority.
We have to Make BroodWar Great Again
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On December 09 2016 04:14 Lightswarm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 20:09 ImbaTosS wrote:
I feel genuinely bad for all the Korean SC2 fans who have been totally had by Blizzard. Blizzard intentionally went waist-deep into Korean SC2 so that they could make the lions share of the profit, and then have the freedom to shuffle it off the mortal coil when it suited their business. In future, I hope anybody trying to create a healthy scene for a competitive game, be they players, tournament organisers, team owners, or a governing body, aren't lured in or just plainly ensnared by a big budget top-down model promising instant success, at the cost of allowing all control to be held by an ultimately unscrupulous party for whom the love of the game is simply not top priority. We have to Make BroodWar Great Again
Careful. That phrase triggers a lot of people on here. Unless you're admitting you're a nazi shitlord.
User was warned for this post
Damn I forgot to put the /s.
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On December 09 2016 06:44 Phredxor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 04:14 Lightswarm wrote:On December 08 2016 20:09 ImbaTosS wrote:
I feel genuinely bad for all the Korean SC2 fans who have been totally had by Blizzard. Blizzard intentionally went waist-deep into Korean SC2 so that they could make the lions share of the profit, and then have the freedom to shuffle it off the mortal coil when it suited their business. In future, I hope anybody trying to create a healthy scene for a competitive game, be they players, tournament organisers, team owners, or a governing body, aren't lured in or just plainly ensnared by a big budget top-down model promising instant success, at the cost of allowing all control to be held by an ultimately unscrupulous party for whom the love of the game is simply not top priority. We have to Make BroodWar Great Again Careful. That phrase triggers a lot of people on here. Unless you're admitting you're a nazi shitlord.
.... lol? Keep this shit out of here please.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://static.invenglobal.com/upload/image/2016/12/06/i1481021312124209.jpeg)
