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The Last Hierarch: Stork on SPL and BW return - Page 10
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BaronVonOwn
299 Posts
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notgayDragon
142 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On December 08 2016 00:01 notgayDragon wrote: Protoss isn't what fucked up WoL, it was BLI PvP didn't help though. There'll never be a matchup dumber than WoL PvP | ||
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BaronVonOwn
299 Posts
On December 08 2016 00:30 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: PvP didn't help though. There'll never be a matchup dumber than WoL PvP Yes... perhaps 4 gate or die and 1/1/1 pushes are repressed memories for some people. Every protoss matchup was seriously flawed. And in all matchups the protoss win condition was either a deathball or some kind of cheese. We should not romanticize WoL too much, it had its problems but it's still the least bad version. | ||
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Rehio
United States1718 Posts
Holy shit, they've tried so hard to get it done. Maybe you don't agree with how they go about it, but the money and effort they've put into making SC2 a popular esport is immense. Saying they did it incorrectly? Maybe (Very much maybe). But saying that they don't care at all is just being willfully blind. | ||
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FLuE
United States1012 Posts
That interaction was forced in SC2. For example, so many abilities. So they could say, "look at this pro he is doing so many things!" problem is the casual player just gets overwhelmed with the complexity. I think there was always a fear that SC2 with MBS, Smartcast, and other quality of life enhancements would diminish the appreciation for what pros could do. That they couldn't put some APS counter and have people blown away. But the reality is that pros would have differed themselves just like they did in BW with unit micro, positioning, new strategies, and it would have been impressive. If the game was fun and dynamic at all levels, and enjoyed more by the masses then the support Blizzard offered the eSport side would have been more than enough. Problem is they made SC2 for the highest level, intense gamer, and over time casual players got frustrated and moved to games that you can hop on an hour or two a week and have fun. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with making a challenging game that takes time to master, but just don't be surprised when people aren't watching because they can't relate or appreciate what is going on. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On December 08 2016 00:37 BaronVonOwn wrote: Yes... perhaps 4 gate or die and 1/1/1 pushes are repressed memories for some people. Every protoss matchup was seriously flawed. And in all matchups the protoss win condition was either a deathball or some kind of cheese. We should not romanticize WoL too much, it had its problems but it's still the least bad version. Nah no way. You can argue that some matchups were superior in the basic gameplay (tvt and tvz come to mind) (if we ignore broodlord infestor ofc) but every toss matchup was awfull and while i dislike the same matchups even in lotv, it still got better. | ||
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On December 08 2016 05:11 Solar424 wrote: I think the real tell that Blizzard doesn't give a shit about SC2 is that they want to make it the "premier RTS game". If you ignore Brood War, that isn't too hard to do, which is what they seem to be doing. They've essentially set the bar so low it would be next to impossible for them to not do that, so they can pat themselves on the back as playership and viewership drop to all-time lows. I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. | ||
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Jj_82
Swaziland419 Posts
On December 08 2016 05:26 Ansibled wrote: Not a lot I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. I want to add my perspective: - I play the game weekly for three hours and have a ton of fun (solid gold). - The escalative crying about Blizz not caring is really dumb. - The game is six years old. That's long for a video game! And it's not stopping yet. - The whole case is severely lacking sources. - Stork about streaming: "Please cheer on me. I promise to give it a lot of effort." Just how generic could he possibly be  | ||
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
On December 08 2016 05:26 Ansibled wrote: I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Blizzard doesn't want to make SC2 a top eSports game, they just want to make it a top RTS game. Since the RTS market is basically nonexistent, they've set the bar really low so that they can put in the bare minimum of effort and shift resources to other games. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On December 08 2016 08:30 Solar424 wrote: Blizzard doesn't want to make SC2 a top eSports game, they just want to make it a top RTS game. Since the RTS market is basically nonexistent, they've set the bar really low so that they can put in the bare minimum of effort and shift resources to other games. SC2 is a top esports game. | ||
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
The point is that they don't want SC2 to be able to compete with LoL and CS:GO, they just want to move on to make more Overwatch crates. | ||
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aQuaSC
717 Posts
On December 08 2016 08:48 Solar424 wrote: The point is that they don't want SC2 to be able to compete with LoL and CS:GO, they just want to move on to make more Overwatch crates. I think you'll agree that it's funny how things changed over the years - competitive game scenes were and some still are carried with little to no aid from developers (see Smash for instance, you could also argue about Brood War), but nowadays "esport" became a shitty ad term and is a mere part of games' marketing campaigns. If that's true, there is little incentive for Blizzard to put so many resources towards a 6-year old game that kids don't like, but there is no incentive for them to leave the game alone either, at least given their commitment to support their games. Blizzard will continue to support SC2, if it keeps going much further or even grows is on people passionate about it. Given how successful other games are at pulling kids to play them (even illegally, see CS:GO and their skins that revitalized the game), people got somewhat lazy and are waiting for Blizzard for every single thing about competitive scene. Which partially is true, Blizzard with their WCS is holding some hands from doing their moves. Aside from that, game communities have grown a lot over the years and pulled over many people who are willing to go to the next flashy thing when it appears. They are not what they once where, small groups driven by passion alone and we got spoiled by that changing in a way. People who love the game will stay with the game, people who are bitter or jealous will keep bitching about it. I personally can't believe that even mobile games have their own competitive scenes forced by developers. | ||
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yoshi245
United States2972 Posts
On December 06 2016 23:17 digmouse wrote: This is infuriating... To say the least. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On December 08 2016 08:48 Solar424 wrote: The point is that they don't want SC2 to be able to compete with LoL and CS:GO, they just want to move on to make more Overwatch crates. Of course they don't. They want Heroes to compete with LoL and Overwatch to compete with CS:GO. I'm not sure what this is supposed to be proving. | ||
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Zooper31
United States5711 Posts
On December 08 2016 08:48 Solar424 wrote: The point is that they don't want SC2 to be able to compete with LoL and CS:GO, they just want to move on to make more Overwatch crates. Of course they want SC2 to compete with the highest earning/viewed esports game. But they realized SC2 wasn't going to have a chance after all these years of trying to make it work. They had to cut it loose eventually and sadly it's time has come. Blizzard is a company just like everyone else, you can't fault them for making a business decision. I enjoyed SC2 when it first came out but by the time the 1st expansion came out the hype for it was done for me. If SC2 moving out of the way means BW has a chance to come back and I can watch all the old school BW idols duking it out again I'll happily accept it. Not to mention I adore Overwatch and more coverage with more tournaments is a good thing in my book. | ||
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aQuaSC
717 Posts
On December 08 2016 09:32 Zooper31 wrote: Of course they want SC2 to compete with the highest earning/viewed esports game. But they realized SC2 wasn't going to have a chance after all these years of trying to make it work. They had to cut it loose eventually and sadly it's time has come. Blizzard is a company just like everyone else, you can't fault them for making a business decision. I enjoyed SC2 when it first came out but by the time the 1st expansion came out the hype for it was done for me. If SC2 moving out of the way means BW has a chance to come back and I can watch all the old school BW idols duking it out again I'll happily accept it. Not to mention I adore Overwatch and more coverage with more tournaments is a good thing in my book. Many people are like you and that's why the game declined - you just prefer other games than SC2. Nothing more to it | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On December 08 2016 09:36 aQuaSC wrote: Many people are like you and that's why the game declined - you just prefer other games than SC2. Nothing more to it It is when glaring and deep-rooted flaws are passed off as purely subjective opinion that stagnation turns into something actively destructive. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On December 08 2016 10:22 207aicila wrote: It is when glaring and deep-rooted flaws are passed off as purely subjective opinion that stagnation turns into something actively destructive. While i love to talk about sc2's design and what i think are flaws i still realize that in the end it is completely subjective. We can set certain goals and then discuss it in this context, but if it's only about if you like a certain aspect, yes it is 100% subjective. | ||
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