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On December 07 2016 10:21 horrypotter wrote:
I'm so surprised a lot of people is rage at Blizzard on this topic. I know this is sad, I feel sad too, but really understandable if you are matured adult.
Image your boss is trying to use a lot of money for dwindling and not promising project despite there are other growing and promising project.
If Blizzard completely stop development of SC2 and support for SC2 e-sports now, I may get rage like you , but they are still supporting this game.
No one is angry that blizzard stopped caring. They're angry they lied about caring and said everything was ok. It's one thing to cut your losses, its another thing to treat people like they can't handle the truth. Well maybe not no one but anyone with a lick of sense.
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On December 07 2016 10:20 BaronVonOwn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 06:57 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On December 07 2016 06:56 BaronVonOwn wrote:
I'm convinced that Jimmy is either a secret Blizzard PR account... Or he desperately wants to work at Blizzard. i'm merely a consumer who spends money in exchange for interactive entertainment products. Blizzard is a good option for my cash relative to my other options. Most of the moaning, whining, and complaining comes from other consumers who believe they are junior game designers. anyhow , if you want to get a game of C&C4 going... lemme know how that goes. You love to compare SC2 to other RTS games. But you always choose one of the losers like C&C. What about Brood War? Why is BW resurging while SC2 is 6 feet under? Even going by your own standards, this proves everything you say is wrong. There is a market for RTS, and it's headed towards BW because SC2 is the inferior product. You can call it "amateur game design" if you want but I know what I want in an RTS, I know why my friends quit, and I've listened to the opinions of many other gamers on why they don't play SC2. They all say the same thing and it's honestly not rocket science.
BW is having a resurgence because of its history in korea and because of the personalities that play it.
Outside of korea it's not big at all. not saying BW isn't an amazing game but there are other factors for the resurgence other than that it's so much better than sc2.
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On December 07 2016 10:24 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 10:20 BaronVonOwn wrote:On December 07 2016 06:57 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On December 07 2016 06:56 BaronVonOwn wrote:
I'm convinced that Jimmy is either a secret Blizzard PR account... Or he desperately wants to work at Blizzard. i'm merely a consumer who spends money in exchange for interactive entertainment products. Blizzard is a good option for my cash relative to my other options. Most of the moaning, whining, and complaining comes from other consumers who believe they are junior game designers. anyhow , if you want to get a game of C&C4 going... lemme know how that goes. You love to compare SC2 to other RTS games. But you always choose one of the losers like C&C. What about Brood War? Why is BW resurging while SC2 is 6 feet under? Even going by your own standards, this proves everything you say is wrong. There is a market for RTS, and it's headed towards BW because SC2 is the inferior product. You can call it "amateur game design" if you want but I know what I want in an RTS, I know why my friends quit, and I've listened to the opinions of many other gamers on why they don't play SC2. They all say the same thing and it's honestly not rocket science. BW is having a resurgence because of its history in korea and because of the personalities that play it. Outside of korea it's not big at all. not saying BW isn't an amazing game but there are other factors for the resurgence other than that it's so much better than sc2.
I think you're underplaying how rich it is fora viewer compared to SC2
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On December 07 2016 10:24 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 10:20 BaronVonOwn wrote:On December 07 2016 06:57 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On December 07 2016 06:56 BaronVonOwn wrote:
I'm convinced that Jimmy is either a secret Blizzard PR account... Or he desperately wants to work at Blizzard. i'm merely a consumer who spends money in exchange for interactive entertainment products. Blizzard is a good option for my cash relative to my other options. Most of the moaning, whining, and complaining comes from other consumers who believe they are junior game designers. anyhow , if you want to get a game of C&C4 going... lemme know how that goes. You love to compare SC2 to other RTS games. But you always choose one of the losers like C&C. What about Brood War? Why is BW resurging while SC2 is 6 feet under? Even going by your own standards, this proves everything you say is wrong. There is a market for RTS, and it's headed towards BW because SC2 is the inferior product. You can call it "amateur game design" if you want but I know what I want in an RTS, I know why my friends quit, and I've listened to the opinions of many other gamers on why they don't play SC2. They all say the same thing and it's honestly not rocket science. BW is having a resurgence because of its history in korea and because of the personalities that play it. Outside of korea it's not big at all. not saying BW isn't an amazing game but there are other factors for the resurgence other than that it's so much better than sc2.
This, I don't think BW would be still that active in Korea if all the big names stopped playing the game (not saying that everyone would stop playing all of a sudden).
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is Brood War's resurgence due to Blizzard pumping money and resources into it? i doubt it.
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On December 07 2016 11:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
is Brood War's resurgence due to Blizzard pumping money and resources into it? i doubt it.
Obviously it's Korean community carrying Brood War, SC2 in general was very unlucky with its community over the years. Aside from never having a chance of being a game of its own, looked at only as it being a sequel to BW with very high expectations (you know, sequel must be so much better objectively, it can't be just different).
Sure, Blizzard and tournament organizers made some poor moves over the years trying to cater to the community but it is not the only problem with the game. Region lock was pushed by ESL/DH as a response to dwindling viewership because of constant Koreans at the top and no chance for local competition - in my opinion it made sense to some extent, but being set up with Korean scene already being invested and in a way dependent on strangling other players with no infrastructure it resulted with what we have today. They tried to do what people wanted, but people changed their minds once Koreans started to lose interest thanks to being locked out from tournaments they wanted to participate in.
But it should never be ignored that if not for SC2, competitive gaming and streaming would not look as they do right now.
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On December 07 2016 10:24 Charoisaur wrote:
BW is having a resurgence because of its history in korea and because of the personalities that play it.
Outside of korea it's not big at all. not saying BW isn't an amazing game but there are other factors for the resurgence other than that it's so much better than sc2.
Those personalities all switched to playing SC2 but it didn't work out so well did it? If SC2 was more faithful, it could have inherited that Brood War history, but instead it is seen as a pretender to the throne and it has been rejected by the loyal fans.
I think it's wrong to be mad at Blizzard now. They've invested a lot into SC2, they've done right by me even if I dislike most of the design choices that differentiate it from BW. I am hoping that this Brood War HD thing turns out to be true, I think it's the way forward and I hope Blizzard sees that too.
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Stork fighting!
I am overwhelmingly happy to see BW flourishing with the ASL and all the old gods returning for one last hurrah  .
What happened with SC2 is really disappointing.
Personally, in game, I think the two things that would really help encourage players to keep playing are new maps for every mode (particularly team games, please...) and for Blizzard and the community to figure out a final form of balance patch for the year so that we can stop changing and redacting changes...I'm talking about the hydralisk, ofc, lol.
If this scene has a drought, then the only thing to be done is to focus on revitalizing the heart of the game. Not balance whine, or shitting on the developers...
Just mix it up with a ton of new maps for every mode (besides just 1v1) and decide on a final patch so that things can settle down and people can actually enjoy playing with the new changes without the weight of knowing they're already going to be changed yet again...I'd bet you quite a bit that a ton of people would return to the game if we could finally get some new 2v2 maps after over a year, lol.
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On December 07 2016 10:23 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 10:21 horrypotter wrote:
I'm so surprised a lot of people is rage at Blizzard on this topic. I know this is sad, I feel sad too, but really understandable if you are matured adult.
Image your boss is trying to use a lot of money for dwindling and not promising project despite there are other growing and promising project.
If Blizzard completely stop development of SC2 and support for SC2 e-sports now, I may get rage like you , but they are still supporting this game. No one is angry that blizzard stopped caring. They're angry they lied about caring and said everything was ok. It's one thing to cut your losses, its another thing to treat people like they can't handle the truth. Well maybe not no one but anyone with a lick of sense.
everyone should be able to see right through that shit based on so many things.
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On December 07 2016 11:49 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2016 10:23 LongShot27 wrote:On December 07 2016 10:21 horrypotter wrote:
I'm so surprised a lot of people is rage at Blizzard on this topic. I know this is sad, I feel sad too, but really understandable if you are matured adult.
Image your boss is trying to use a lot of money for dwindling and not promising project despite there are other growing and promising project.
If Blizzard completely stop development of SC2 and support for SC2 e-sports now, I may get rage like you , but they are still supporting this game. No one is angry that blizzard stopped caring. They're angry they lied about caring and said everything was ok. It's one thing to cut your losses, its another thing to treat people like they can't handle the truth. Well maybe not no one but anyone with a lick of sense. everyone should be able to see right through that shit based on so many things.
Alot of people were, alot of them got banned for it, alot of them just gave up on starcraft. And some people genuinely wanted to believe it wasn't happening
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🖕 Blizzard, would have been nice if you at least once tried delegating to the community before you gave up.
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On December 07 2016 12:11 Marl wrote:
🖕 Blizzard, would have been nice if you at least once tried delegating to the community before you gave up.
What do you mean
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lol now you know why Kim Phan gave all sorts of PR non answers in that TL interview.
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it's a dayum shame.  seems like they just wanted to move on then sadly
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A perfect marine split against banelings on creep is still the most satisfying thing in any game, ever. I love Brood War and still play it, I love SC2 and still play it.
Some people just need to understand that hardcore RTS games aren't for everybody :-) Our scene will never be big again, no matter what Blizzard, Blizzard Korea, KeSPA or anyone else does. Let's enjoy these wonderful games in our smaller scenes instead of being disappointed that we're not as big as other games.
I still play and support QuakeWorld (quake 1, essentially) and even stream and commentate it during tournaments. That scene has like 200 players nowadays.
Doesn't matter how big our scene is or if Proleague was discontinued. We still find games within 1 minute when searching for a game on the ladder. Proleague was fun to watch of course, and it was the only 'real team league', but the world doesn't end because Proleague did. If you're into watching high level SC2 or high level BW, there will still be games of very high level to watch.
The decline in our scene is to be expected, and frankly I'm not sad about it at all, because these youngsters who played Starcraft just because it was the flavor of the month in 2011 had a tendency of being quite toxic.
Let's enjoy these two great games and have fun on the ladder. I've found that two base battlecruiser build that uThermal did to be real fun to do on the ladder. Try it!
So long~
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On December 07 2016 13:29 sd_andeh wrote:
A perfect marine split against banelings on creep is still the most satisfying thing in any game, ever. I love Brood War and still play it, I love SC2 and still play it.
Some people just need to understand that hardcore RTS games aren't for everybody :-) Our scene will never be big again, no matter what Blizzard, Blizzard Korea, KeSPA or anyone else does. Let's enjoy these wonderful games in our smaller scenes instead of being disappointed that we're not as big as other games.
I still play and support QuakeWorld (quake 1, essentially) and even stream and commentate it during tournaments. That scene has like 200 players nowadays.
Doesn't matter how big our scene is or if Proleague was discontinued. We still find games within 1 minute when searching for a game on the ladder. Proleague was fun to watch of course, and it was the only 'real team league', but the world doesn't end because Proleague did. If you're into watching high level SC2 or high level BW, there will still be games of very high level to watch.
The decline in our scene is to be expected, and frankly I'm not sad about it at all, because these youngsters who played Starcraft just because it was the flavor of the month in 2011 had a tendency of being quite toxic.
Let's enjoy these two great games and have fun on the ladder. I've found that two base battlecruiser build that uThermal did to be real fun to do on the ladder. Try it!
So long~
yeah, a small but very passionate scene can really be more enjoyable than a huge mainstream scene.
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I don't expect Starcraft to be the top esport anymore. But I think it can have better viewership than such esport juggernauts as Runescape and Destiny, which it now consistently places behind on Twitch.
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Destiny is an esport now? I'm slightly intrigued. Tell me more...
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South Korea2106 Posts
It's a shame all the dirt is surfacing now. Had the community heard of this sooner, things might have gone a different way. I understand why Stork or anyone else would be hesitant to talk about issues like this, or the salary collusion claims made a few weeks ago mainly by Flash. I certainly hope the Korean community becomes vocal about this. It's going to be rather difficult to rebuild the scene without the support of KeSPA and Blizzard, but if the main companies (i.e. Afreeca) make the right decisions then at least individual competition can still keep going.
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EPT
