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On April 21 2015 10:39 ZenithM wrote:
I don't see where this comment from me was an attack on you,
neither do I. Did I say that?
On April 21 2015 10:39 ZenithM wrote:
but I won't hide that in general I don't really have much respect for sport betters. It's fine when contestants are already superstars who make way more that you can betting on them, but if players are earning less than betters, they're just easy prey. All the more so as nobody does anything about matchfixing anyway, so you don't really pay the price for forsaking your progamer honor.
I doubt any better (excluding the betters that match fix) made anything near the money MKP did.
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Would mvp be willing to release the replay for examination by the public?
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On April 21 2015 10:54 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 10:51 Baarn wrote:On April 21 2015 10:47 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On April 21 2015 10:44 Hot_Bid wrote:
MKP threw.
You don't even have to look at the VOD and analyze his body language or whatever. You can just look at the betting lines and activity.
It's not normal that thousands of dollars are bet against MKP despite the odds being heavily against the bettors. Every single time that's happened, the person who was "supposed to lose" lost. It's like 6/6 or 7/7 now in every bet Pinnacle has voided. You're telling me that this is just a coincidence, that people will pump thousands of dollars with terrible odds and it just happens to always be in games where the person who they bet on wins in strange circumstances? And it just happened to be this match, where it looked like he threw?
Keep in mind its not normal for these amounts (tens of thousands of $ sometimes) to be placed on a single match. If this was just random, sometimes the bettors who bet these kinds of money against bad odds would lose, but they don't. They always win when they bet this much.
He threw. It's sad, but that's what happened. You still follow starcraft? I agree though. The real question is what the hell can we do about it? Just don't support pro league anymore. If you really feel that strongly about this? They lose western audience and they market it in korea. Then it's back to restreams again like in broodwar after gom stopped their tournaments for the people that are still interested. So let's let Sc2 die? Ya sounds like a great idea. You know there's no starcraft scene without the korean scene, right? You really think foreigners are gonna keep people interested? That ship sailed a long time ago.
Sc2 isn't gonna die if some people decide they don't care for kespa. They have a new expansion thats gonna get shipped this year. If they don't screw it up it will reignite interest in the game. I hate to break it to you but WCS is far superior to the korean tournaments. Sure they don't cater to team play but quality is way higher in the broadcast.
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TLADT24920 Posts
Well, statement was as expected. Teams almost always side with their players and it's already been explained why saying that match fixing took place will drag SCII into the dirt in Korea. For me, based on all the evidence available (the way he played the game, the betting lines, being so defensive on facebook etc...) all seem to point to him being guilty. Let's examine these a bit further, shall we?
Gameplay- you might be saying, well, bigfan, everyone makes mistakes. This is also MKP who does the stupidest crap ever. Yep, I hear you. I've seen him try 3cc and lose to zerg so many times, it's ridiculous. However, a progamer that is set on winning a game will at least try to do things properly. See something on minimap? check what it is. Have reapers? scout around to find out where the opponent's money is going. Problem is, if MKP was newer to the scene with nil experience or some amateur, it might be more understandable why he would make those mistakes but he's a guy whose's been around from day 1, played a ton of tournaments, games, changed teams etc... It's essentially impossible for someone with his experience to miss a spinecrawler for that long. I'm a total SCII noob having not played the game in years and I can tell you if I saw anything different on the minimap (even if slightly), I would've checked. Same goes with the back entrance. So, let's say he missed the color on the map. Seeing as there is only one other entrance to his main, why was there no marine there? Whether in SCII or BW, watching the back entrance is always a must because it's so easy for the opponent to break it down and get free access to your base. I dunno, it's just perplexing that he made those 2-3 mistakes for someone of his caliber.
Betting lines- been explained a lot, too much actually lol.
So defensive on fb- it's fine to be defensive and call gamblers trash or w/e but at least explain how things went down. Heck, if he said that he wasn't feeling well but didn't want to fail the team (headache, fever, etc.... just pick something!), then at least, we can say that maybe that was a contributing factor on top of his already bizzare usual gameplay but he doesn't even say anything in regards to the game. It's not an admission of guilt but it could've at least lowered some eyebrows.
Rough for the scene overall though. Wonder just how widespread this stuff is.
On April 21 2015 10:23 Fran_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 10:07 fruity. wrote:
So am I to believe that a progamer who had his first offline tournament 5 years ago, whos whole life has been dedicated to SC is not going to check his minimap for that duration? Bullshit. Total bullshit. Most of the players here would've spotted that spine crawler faster than MK. Further if you watch MK there's a couple of times at least you can see him glancing down to the bottom left. The only reason to do this in SC is to check the minimap, they know where the keys are from muscle memory, there's no need to check hot groups... To be fair, from FP view of MKP when I was watching the match that spot on the minimap looked a lot like an overlord. I'm pretty sure he did see it and thought it was an ovie which makes sense to have in that position.
If it was an overload, it would've disappeared on the minimap. Only buildings would remain so that point is false.
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On April 21 2015 10:51 lichter wrote:
...
I believe there was one or two (I think it was one) cases where the player that was supposed to lose won. I don't remember the specific game but I recall it being discussed.
Terror vs ByuL I think???
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Canada16217 Posts
On April 21 2015 10:56 Swoopae wrote:
Would mvp be willing to release the replay for examination by the public?
Proleague replays aren't released as it is, so i doubt it
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On April 21 2015 10:51 lichter wrote:
I believe there was one or two (I think it was one) cases where the player that was supposed to lose won. I don't remember the specific game but I recall it being discussed.
Byul vs Terror. The betting lines were not voided.
The betting lines were off but not as ridiculously as in the voided ones.
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On April 21 2015 10:53 NovemberstOrm wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 10:51 Baarn wrote:On April 21 2015 10:47 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On April 21 2015 10:44 Hot_Bid wrote:
MKP threw.
You don't even have to look at the VOD and analyze his body language or whatever. You can just look at the betting lines and activity.
It's not normal that thousands of dollars are bet against MKP despite the odds being heavily against the bettors. Every single time that's happened, the person who was "supposed to lose" lost. It's like 6/6 or 7/7 now in every bet Pinnacle has voided. You're telling me that this is just a coincidence, that people will pump thousands of dollars with terrible odds and it just happens to always be in games where the person who they bet on wins in strange circumstances? And it just happened to be this match, where it looked like he threw?
Keep in mind its not normal for these amounts (tens of thousands of $ sometimes) to be placed on a single match. If this was just random, sometimes the bettors who bet these kinds of money against bad odds would lose, but they don't. They always win when they bet this much.
He threw. It's sad, but that's what happened. You still follow starcraft? I agree though. The real question is what the hell can we do about it? Just don't support pro league anymore. If you really feel that strongly about this? They lose western audience and they market it in korea. Then it's back to restreams again like in broodwar after gom stopped their tournaments. killing it isn't the way to go
No it's not but some people may just decide to lose interest in kespa tournaments. Maybe for a season or maybe not return. There really isn't much anyone can do about that if a person makes that choice.
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your Country52797 Posts
On April 21 2015 10:58 StarGalaxy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 10:51 lichter wrote:
I believe there was one or two (I think it was one) cases where the player that was supposed to lose won. I don't remember the specific game but I recall it being discussed. Byul vs Terror. The betting lines were not voided. The betting lines were off but not as ridiculously as in the voided ones.
That was the one where people were betting on TerrOr but ByuL won, right? That seems really odd to me.
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On April 21 2015 10:56 Swoopae wrote:
Would mvp be willing to release the replay for examination by the public?
Someone earlier said that SPOTV wont allow it, it's in the rules not too. (edit dunno why I said spotv). 3am off to bed.
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On April 21 2015 10:57 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 10:54 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On April 21 2015 10:51 Baarn wrote:On April 21 2015 10:47 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On April 21 2015 10:44 Hot_Bid wrote:
MKP threw.
You don't even have to look at the VOD and analyze his body language or whatever. You can just look at the betting lines and activity.
It's not normal that thousands of dollars are bet against MKP despite the odds being heavily against the bettors. Every single time that's happened, the person who was "supposed to lose" lost. It's like 6/6 or 7/7 now in every bet Pinnacle has voided. You're telling me that this is just a coincidence, that people will pump thousands of dollars with terrible odds and it just happens to always be in games where the person who they bet on wins in strange circumstances? And it just happened to be this match, where it looked like he threw?
Keep in mind its not normal for these amounts (tens of thousands of $ sometimes) to be placed on a single match. If this was just random, sometimes the bettors who bet these kinds of money against bad odds would lose, but they don't. They always win when they bet this much.
He threw. It's sad, but that's what happened. You still follow starcraft? I agree though. The real question is what the hell can we do about it? Just don't support pro league anymore. If you really feel that strongly about this? They lose western audience and they market it in korea. Then it's back to restreams again like in broodwar after gom stopped their tournaments for the people that are still interested. So let's let Sc2 die? Ya sounds like a great idea. You know there's no starcraft scene without the korean scene, right? You really think foreigners are gonna keep people interested? That ship sailed a long time ago. Sc2 isn't gonna die if some people decide they don't care for kespa. They have a new expansion thats gonna get shipped this year. If they don't screw it up it will reignite interest in the game. I hate to break it to you but WCS is far superior to the korean tournaments. Sure they don't cater to team play but quality is way higher in the broadcast.
Spoiler alert, Blizzard's probably gonna screw it up, they've shown no signs of anything else happening so far in the beta. Any interest that's reignited among more casual viewers will be lost in a year or two just like the last two expansions. Maybe the broadcast quality is higher, especially compared to GSL, but the games aren't.
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United States97276 Posts
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
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Bisutopia19305 Posts
On April 21 2015 11:01 Shellshock wrote:
idk what people expected
More popcorn.
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On April 21 2015 11:00 fruity. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 10:56 Swoopae wrote:
Would mvp be willing to release the replay for examination by the public? Someone earlier said that SPOTV wont allow it, it's in the rules not too. (edit dunno why I said spotv). 3am off to bed.
If ever there was an extenuating circumstance where kespa or whoever should break that rule, this would certainly be it.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On April 21 2015 11:04 BisuDagger wrote:More popcorn.
but this isn't a movie, this is real life! ;;
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On April 21 2015 10:58 StarGalaxy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 10:51 lichter wrote:
I believe there was one or two (I think it was one) cases where the player that was supposed to lose won. I don't remember the specific game but I recall it being discussed. Byul vs Terror. The betting lines were not voided. The betting lines were off but not as ridiculously as in the voided ones.
I think people also misunderstand the role of Pinnacle and Pinnacle's bettors in this. The matchfixers aren't betting on Pinnacle. Matchfixers are betting on Korean betting sites. The curious activity that occurs on Pinnacle is due to some observant bettors that look at the Korean betting sites taking advantage of what appear to be fixed games. When they see curious activity on Korean betting sites, they try to take advantage by betting the same way on Pinnacle. There are several possible scenarios possible from this type of activity:
1.) Multiple Pinnacle bettors try to ride the wave and the odds explode, leading to cancelled bets — this is what we've seen happen
2.) Only a handful of Pinnacle bettors notice the possible fix, and the odds don't move enough to give us a clue — since the lines did not get voided, we don't realize these games could have been fixed
3.) Pinnacle bettors see a potential fix, bet like crazy on it, only to realize it was not a fix — this may have happened with TerrOr vs ByuL, and it may have happened in other games as well (only to fortunately get it right)
That's why Pinnacle can't stop matchfixing or the illegal betting. What happens on Pinnacle is merely a bunch of bettors trying to ride the wave, and they have no direct involvement with the fixing.
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Well, marineking is basically your poster-child degenerate sc2 pro, so I'm not surprised in the slightest that he would be involved in something like this. Fits his image perfectly.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Germany3128 Posts
On April 21 2015 10:56 Swoopae wrote:
Would mvp be willing to release the replay for examination by the public?
I don't want to say something which isn't true, but I could imagine that this decision lays in Kespas hands
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On April 21 2015 11:08 TheNewEra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 10:56 Swoopae wrote:
Would mvp be willing to release the replay for examination by the public? I don't want to say something which isn't true, but I could imagine that this decision lays in Kespas hands
I read a few times throughout this thread that SPOTV and KeSPA won't release the replay.
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EPT
