On April 21 2015 15:06 magicallypuzzled wrote: and it's that exactly logic that makes it impossible to take your position seriously. the betting doesn't prove anything it certainly doesn't make a not unheard of error look suspicious. when the much easier explanation that mkp is his own worst enemy and bettors were willing to bet on that again being the case, has much more evidence and proof backing it up.
Wait, let me make it clear. You are saying that people just had a gut feeling that this game he will surely slip, so let's just raise the usual bets by a lot. It could've been his previous game, or the game before that, or... but no, betting people that day just woke up with that feeling simultaneously. John was drinking his morning coffee, Jane was washing her hair, Jason was jogging around the block, and they all just thought "screw this, for this game, imma throw in a couple thousand more!". That's like a miracle in itself, but someone must've had a goldfish, because it did not stop there. For some reason MKP did slip up big time. It can happen, yes, you are saying the same thing since the early pages, yes, people forgot forges, yes, we get it, but for some reason MKP forgot his forge on this already miraculous day. And then even the caster remarks MKP's strange behavior. This guy casted MKP before and probably watched a hell lotta game from him, it's his job after all to keep himself updated, but for some magical reason, he found him strange in this exact game.
Your conclusion? Innocent for sure, and you don't even know why does this thing require it's own thread to begin with. I mean, someone cannon rushed without a forge once.
I suppose ignorance is bliss.
actually no my position from the very beginning has been it seems highly likely to be match fixing and if I were in a position of authority i'd make sure it was investigated. but since I am not I need 100 percent proof before I either A. assume it is match fixing or B. treat anyone assuming it's match fixing as with even a gram of legitimacy.
that said with more time to think about it the probability of mkp choking as he so often does has started to seem more likely to me than match fixing i'd still have it investigated though.
It is about 4 weeks ago since people assumed there was a matchfixing between ByuL and MarineKing.
Yeah, it's about time
And directly after the game a part of the folk judged kinda fast and submitted that MarineKing did matchfixing. But it is not always the way as it looks like. Yet we took this allegedly incident very seriously since we have never ever accepted cheating and MarineKing is one of our players what makes the allegation not better in any way.
Ooooh, so MVP takes matchfixing very seriously. Who would have thought.
We have never stopped trusting Lee and we could not image that he had tried to cheat, that’s why we asked MKP firstly if all these allegations could be true - and he was clearly in making his position, so he emphasized that he didn't matchfixed. For us it was enough
Taking lessons from history and from SaviOr, I see.
but in this case we felt that it could be insufficient, especially when you have to give an explanation to community.
Aaaaah, top3 reasoning right there.
We took charge of the game and tried to understand exactly the circumstance, not only by checking the replay again and again but also by having some serious talks. We also kinda grilled MarineKing several times, that's why he didn't play in Proleague for a while. But at the very end, all evidence gave us the same answer – Lee was not matchfixing.
Interesting. How about doing a bit more than checking a replay over and over again (rofl) and asking the suspect if he's guilty?
Surely, it was a questionable game but was it matchfixing? Definitely not! Having a bad game or even a bad period of time is humanly. We won't suspend a player by an accusation
Makes sense
, which was finally proved wrong
When? How? It isn't "proved wrong". It is "not proved true".
, and destroy his career. And if we take a close view on MarineKing's match history, he hasn't won a few Proleague games recently, so it makes it even more unlikely that he did.
How about his pre-game and in-game behavior, which was wildly different than in his previous matches?
Anyway, to make you understand MKP a little bit better: Lee is/was pressuring hisself a lot, because he wants to win so badly and he puts a lot of efforts and emotion into the game. And it makes it not easier for him if people have a very high expectation, which he wants to answer. In addition as team captain you have to carry an extra burden. Probably that’s the main reason why he didn’t perform as good lately. It is not always easy to be professional which concerns not only eSports and sometimes you need a little bit time and an helping hand to get up again.
For the upcoming season we decided that MKP will exchange the role as team captain with YongHwa, so MarineKing can focus more on his own play again. We keep believing in MarineKing, so we hope that you have not given him up as well. And hopfully he will be back with full strength for the next Proleague round.
On April 21 2015 10:07 fruity. wrote: Here's the VOD of the game in question.
A theme in this thread seems to be 'they cancelled the bets therefore there is match fixing going on'. Sorry, but that in itself does not prove anything. It may be suspicious, but can't be used as any sort of proof on its own.
So where might any potential proof lie?
This is the point in the VOD where the weird shit happens. https://youtu.be/J-XbHBQAco8?t=267 Byul proxies a hatch, and soon after drops the first spine crawler, it's this spine crawler which is clearly seen on MK's minimap, the observer switches to first person view a couple of times, and you can clearly see it. A big blob within spitting distance of MK's main.
Now sometime in the past the our beloved Day9 did a daily on rotation. Basically: Check SCV production, check army production, check minimap. Rinse and repeat. Good advice. From the moment MK should see the spine crawler to when he actually reacts to it is 1minute 15 seconds in real time.
So am I to believe that a progamer who had his first offline tournament 5 years ago, whos whole life has been dedicated to SC is not going to check his minimap for that duration? Bullshit. Total bullshit. Most of the players here would've spotted that spine crawler faster than MK. Further if you watch MK there's a couple of times at least you can see him glancing down to the bottom left. The only reason to do this in SC is to check the minimap, they know where the keys are from muscle memory, there's no need to check hot groups...
Add in his body language, it's just wrong. Wolf comments on this.
Someone earlier said that it could've been an overlord. Sure that sounds good. But why didn't he go check? Why would he allow potential viewing of his base? Isn't the normal thing for anyone going up against zerg to think 'ooooh overlord - let me go kill it to maybe get a supply block'. Especially at the start (4-5ish mins in game time).
Now add in the fact that online betting sites tracked line movements which were odd and made them cancel the bets.
Is the above enough to convict MK? Each point I raise in isolation is not. But when you add them all together? For me at the very very least it's left me thinking that there will be a cloud over MK. Is that fair or reasonable on my part, perhaps not, but in the absence of real proof like a recorded phone conversation, and considering the points I raised above, is fucking well suspicious.
As for MVP's statement. I thank them for at least making a statement. Though I'm not exactly sure of what else they could say in the absence of definitive proof. But for me I just can't see how a progamer would not react to that in a million years. It must be unprecedented at this level of play, we're not talking about a medivac clipping a player's vision here. Were talking about static defence, outside MK's base clearly seen for over a minute.
so explain to me how a Korean pro good enough to beat a lot of well known other Korean pro's forgets that one needs a forge to cannon rush. explain how one forgets to research stim or combat shields than explain to me how that's so much more likely of a mistake to make than thinking a dot you don't have vision of is an overlord. or perhaps not noticing the dot at all.
Thinking you'd built a forge is a very rare lapse but the player would realise pretty quickly. Building the same building twice can happen too. Missing an upgrade is also believable if you thought you'd hit it as it's not checked that often. Mistakes happen but missing a dot on the minimap early game for over a minute, something progamers are constantly checking (a reaction time of more than a few seconds would be extremely slow), is completely unbelievable.
It's believable mainly if the argument is used that he thought the red dot was an overlord.
I could TOTALLY see myself in MKP's position sitting there deep in thought about what I'm going to do this game (or having my mind racing because of serious nerves) and then noticing the dot on the minimap and assuming it's an overlord because that's exactly where overlords always come from when I play zergs on expedition lost. It's very unlikely in the heat of the moment that I'm going to think "hey that might not actually be an overlord I should go look and make sure." I don't know about MKP but in my experience proxy hatch builds are EXTREMELY rare (to the extent that I haven't seen it on ladder in months) and I would never think of that as a possibility, especially in a proleague match. He was probably very confused when he saw the lack of a natural.
With all due respect though, there are very few of us who could truly see ourselves in MKP's position. You visualizing how you would have reacted (or not reacted) isn't necessarily the same as how a top tier progamer would approach the same thing., let alone with the level of tournament experience and exposure as MKP.
Right but the point is it isn't exactly inconceivable to legitimately make such a mistake. Even as a pro gamer such lapses can occur, it's the nature of being human.
He did not have vision of the "overlord" spot with any of his units for over a minute. He would have realized that.
Not only that, but the creep would have been on his minimap (unless they changed that since I played). So a red blip plus a dark area on his minimap...
On April 21 2015 14:46 Quixotic_tv wrote: Again: Please prove that he cheated. As suspicious as it is, there is no proof. Still.
I am totally disappointed by Hot_bid, by the way.
In the strictest sense you are correct that there's no proof here.
But let's take a step back and look at everything we have here:
You have Pinnacle voiding several bets Two sources in the Korean scene reporting that match-fixing is an open secret (both people vouched for by admins as trustworthy individuals) A game where multiple pro's (Welmu, Huk, Kane to name a few) have publicly weighed in that this just isn't the kind of mistake someone can conceivably make. And of course actual fixed matches in Starcraft history (not just Broodwar, but in SC2 all the way from little Korean online cups to a recent WCS too).
So no, there's no lock-solid proof that MKP fixed this match, but we can be pretty sure that matches are being fixed and this seems the most likely game so far.
Add to that several pro gamers (MMA, Solar) speaking about how they're getting harassed by people who want them to matchfix.
A lot of naievete in the thread but im glad we are having this discussion.
To mvp: if you truly want to exonerate your player you need to at a minimum do the following
Release the replay Interview w marineking with him explaining his thought process at key moments of the replay
Ideally a formal investigation into his chatlogs and finances but without police involvement thats impossible so at the very least id like to see the replay and mkp explaining his thought process to even consider the possibility this is some huge coincidence and hes somehow innocent
On April 21 2015 15:06 magicallypuzzled wrote: and it's that exactly logic that makes it impossible to take your position seriously. the betting doesn't prove anything it certainly doesn't make a not unheard of error look suspicious. when the much easier explanation that mkp is his own worst enemy and bettors were willing to bet on that again being the case, has much more evidence and proof backing it up.
Wait, let me make it clear. You are saying that people just had a gut feeling that this game he will surely slip, so let's just raise the usual bets by a lot. It could've been his previous game, or the game before that, or... but no, betting people that day just woke up with that feeling simultaneously. John was drinking his morning coffee, Jane was washing her hair, Jason was jogging around the block, and they all just thought "screw this, for this game, imma throw in a couple thousand more!". That's like a miracle in itself, but someone must've had a goldfish, because it did not stop there. For some reason MKP did slip up big time. It can happen, yes, you are saying the same thing since the early pages, yes, people forgot forges, yes, we get it, but for some reason MKP forgot his forge on this already miraculous day. And then even the caster remarks MKP's strange behavior. This guy casted MKP before and probably watched a hell lotta game from him, it's his job after all to keep himself updated, but for some magical reason, he found him strange in this exact game.
Your conclusion? Innocent for sure, and you don't even know why does this thing require it's own thread to begin with. I mean, someone cannon rushed without a forge once.
I suppose ignorance is bliss.
actually no my position from the very beginning has been it seems highly likely to be match fixing and if I were in a position of authority i'd make sure it was investigated. but since I am not I need 100 percent proof before I either A. assume it is match fixing or B. treat anyone assuming it's match fixing as with even a gram of legitimacy.
Then why are you fighting this so hard? Are you trying to make a point to not call someone guilty until it is 10000000000000000000% confirmed? If so, you chose a pretty poor case to make people understand it's not right.
On April 21 2015 15:36 Swoopae wrote: A lot of naievete in the thread but im glad we are having this discussion.
To mvp: if you truly want to exonerate your player you need to at a minimum do the following
Release the replay Interview w marineking with him explaining his thought process at key moments of the replay
Ideally a formal investigation into his chatlogs and finances but without police involvement thats impossible so at the very least id like to see the replay and mkp explaining his thought process to even consider the possibility this is some huge coincidence and hes somehow innocent
A theme in this thread seems to be 'they cancelled the bets therefore there is match fixing going on'. Sorry, but that in itself does not prove anything. It may be suspicious, but can't be used as any sort of proof on its own.
So where might any potential proof lie?
This is the point in the VOD where the weird shit happens. https://youtu.be/J-XbHBQAco8?t=267 Byul proxies a hatch, and soon after drops the first spine crawler, it's this spine crawler which is clearly seen on MK's minimap, the observer switches to first person view a couple of times, and you can clearly see it. A big blob within spitting distance of MK's main.
Now sometime in the past the our beloved Day9 did a daily on rotation. Basically: Check SCV production, check army production, check minimap. Rinse and repeat. Good advice. From the moment MK should see the spine crawler to when he actually reacts to it is 1minute 15 seconds in real time.
So am I to believe that a progamer who had his first offline tournament 5 years ago, whos whole life has been dedicated to SC is not going to check his minimap for that duration? Bullshit. Total bullshit. Most of the players here would've spotted that spine crawler faster than MK. Further if you watch MK there's a couple of times at least you can see him glancing down to the bottom left. The only reason to do this in SC is to check the minimap, they know where the keys are from muscle memory, there's no need to check hot groups...
Add in his body language, it's just wrong. Wolf comments on this.
Someone earlier said that it could've been an overlord. Sure that sounds good. But why didn't he go check? Why would he allow potential viewing of his base? Isn't the normal thing for anyone going up against zerg to think 'ooooh overlord - let me go kill it to maybe get a supply block'. Especially at the start (4-5ish mins in game time).
Now add in the fact that online betting sites tracked line movements which were odd and made them cancel the bets.
Is the above enough to convict MK? Each point I raise in isolation is not. But when you add them all together? For me at the very very least it's left me thinking that there will be a cloud over MK. Is that fair or reasonable on my part, perhaps not, but in the absence of real proof like a recorded phone conversation, and considering the points I raised above, is fucking well suspicious.
As for MVP's statement. I thank them for at least making a statement. Though I'm not exactly sure of what else they could say in the absence of definitive proof. But for me I just can't see how a progamer would not react to that in a million years. It must be unprecedented at this level of play, we're not talking about a medivac clipping a player's vision here. Were talking about static defence, outside MK's base clearly seen for over a minute.
so explain to me how a Korean pro good enough to beat a lot of well known other Korean pro's forgets that one needs a forge to cannon rush. explain how one forgets to research stim or combat shields than explain to me how that's so much more likely of a mistake to make than thinking a dot you don't have vision of is an overlord. or perhaps not noticing the dot at all.
Thinking you'd built a forge is a very rare lapse but the player would realise pretty quickly. Building the same building twice can happen too. Missing an upgrade is also believable if you thought you'd hit it as it's not checked that often. Mistakes happen but missing a dot on the minimap early game for over a minute, something progamers are constantly checking (a reaction time of more than a few seconds would be extremely slow), is completely unbelievable.
It's believable mainly if the argument is used that he thought the red dot was an overlord.
I could TOTALLY see myself in MKP's position sitting there deep in thought about what I'm going to do this game (or having my mind racing because of serious nerves) and then noticing the dot on the minimap and assuming it's an overlord because that's exactly where overlords always come from when I play zergs on expedition lost. It's very unlikely in the heat of the moment that I'm going to think "hey that might not actually be an overlord I should go look and make sure." I don't know about MKP but in my experience proxy hatch builds are EXTREMELY rare (to the extent that I haven't seen it on ladder in months) and I would never think of that as a possibility, especially in a proleague match. He was probably very confused when he saw the lack of a natural.
Having played in lan tournaments at a decent amateur level and years of gaming (I even played LAN showmatches vs Nada and herO where I was shaking with nerves). I've made collossal fuckups in game due to nerves/mental breakdowns but they're split second mistakes, reacting in a retarded way or not reacting for 5-10 seconds to something on the minimap (still really bad) but I've never come close to what MKP did. Anyone decent at the game won't miss something for that long. It's just not conceivable that a progamer of MKP's calibre can not react to something on the minimap for 30 seconds, let alone over a minute, with no natural going up on a map where the dot is beside his destructible back door. The game itself is damning, the betting lines are damning. Fanboyism/naivety is the only thing stopping people from seeing what 99.9% happened. The fixed BW games weren't nearly as obvious as this one.
As for the overlord argument. Overlords disappear in fog of war, any decent player knows instantly that it's a building once it sticks on the map outside of his vision.
and any decent player knows a forge is needed for a cannon rush.
Misplacing a building slightly or it getting blocked at the last minute so you think it started, but it didn't, can happen. I've done it and I've seen progamers do it. Not seeing a proxy building on the map for 75 seconds is not in the realm of possible mistakes and I've yet to see a pro say otherwise. Building two citadels is a dumb mistake, missing a nydus is bad, but this is more like allowing a 75 second nydus or building 10 citadels. The minimap is checked second by second and if he had a remotely decent alibi we'd have heard it by now.
On April 21 2015 15:36 Swoopae wrote: A lot of naievete in the thread but im glad we are having this discussion.
To mvp: if you truly want to exonerate your player you need to at a minimum do the following
Release the replay Interview w marineking with him explaining his thought process at key moments of the replay
Ideally a formal investigation into his chatlogs and finances but without police involvement thats impossible so at the very least id like to see the replay and mkp explaining his thought process to even consider the possibility this is some huge coincidence and hes somehow innocent
What are we trying to find in the replay?
I assume his FP view, it would be difficult to not flick across to see the dot as it appeared. His actions or inaction (apm irregularities) after it appears would also be telling.
On April 21 2015 15:06 magicallypuzzled wrote: and it's that exactly logic that makes it impossible to take your position seriously. the betting doesn't prove anything it certainly doesn't make a not unheard of error look suspicious. when the much easier explanation that mkp is his own worst enemy and bettors were willing to bet on that again being the case, has much more evidence and proof backing it up.
Wait, let me make it clear. You are saying that people just had a gut feeling that this game he will surely slip, so let's just raise the usual bets by a lot. It could've been his previous game, or the game before that, or... but no, betting people that day just woke up with that feeling simultaneously. John was drinking his morning coffee, Jane was washing her hair, Jason was jogging around the block, and they all just thought "screw this, for this game, imma throw in a couple thousand more!". That's like a miracle in itself, but someone must've had a goldfish, because it did not stop there. For some reason MKP did slip up big time. It can happen, yes, you are saying the same thing since the early pages, yes, people forgot forges, yes, we get it, but for some reason MKP forgot his forge on this already miraculous day. And then even the caster remarks MKP's strange behavior. This guy casted MKP before and probably watched a hell lotta game from him, it's his job after all to keep himself updated, but for some magical reason, he found him strange in this exact game.
Your conclusion? Innocent for sure, and you don't even know why does this thing require it's own thread to begin with. I mean, someone cannon rushed without a forge once.
I suppose ignorance is bliss.
actually no my position from the very beginning has been it seems highly likely to be match fixing and if I were in a position of authority i'd make sure it was investigated. but since I am not I need 100 percent proof before I either A. assume it is match fixing or B. treat anyone assuming it's match fixing as with even a gram of legitimacy.
Then why are you fighting this so hard? Are you trying to make a point to not call someone guilty until it is 10000000000000000000% confirmed? If so, you chose a pretty poor case to make people understand it's not right.
well I don't need to convince other people defending innocence until it's proven is still the right thing to do if anyone believes you or not
also sorry I edited my post after you quoted it with a cooler head I am less certain it's highly likely to be match fixing.
On April 21 2015 15:37 magicallypuzzled wrote: I love how multiple people have said mvp isn't allowed to release the replay yet people are still yelling at them to do it.
I think this thread would look very different if MVP's statement had "we would really like to show you the replay, which proves our player's innocence, but sadly, so far we could not convince kespa to release it. We will try everything we can to convince them the importance of this, so we can clean MKP's name once and for all!" in it, no?
On April 21 2015 15:06 magicallypuzzled wrote: and it's that exactly logic that makes it impossible to take your position seriously. the betting doesn't prove anything it certainly doesn't make a not unheard of error look suspicious. when the much easier explanation that mkp is his own worst enemy and bettors were willing to bet on that again being the case, has much more evidence and proof backing it up.
Wait, let me make it clear. You are saying that people just had a gut feeling that this game he will surely slip, so let's just raise the usual bets by a lot. It could've been his previous game, or the game before that, or... but no, betting people that day just woke up with that feeling simultaneously. John was drinking his morning coffee, Jane was washing her hair, Jason was jogging around the block, and they all just thought "screw this, for this game, imma throw in a couple thousand more!". That's like a miracle in itself, but someone must've had a goldfish, because it did not stop there. For some reason MKP did slip up big time. It can happen, yes, you are saying the same thing since the early pages, yes, people forgot forges, yes, we get it, but for some reason MKP forgot his forge on this already miraculous day. And then even the caster remarks MKP's strange behavior. This guy casted MKP before and probably watched a hell lotta game from him, it's his job after all to keep himself updated, but for some magical reason, he found him strange in this exact game.
Your conclusion? Innocent for sure, and you don't even know why does this thing require it's own thread to begin with. I mean, someone cannon rushed without a forge once.
I suppose ignorance is bliss.
actually no my position from the very beginning has been it seems highly likely to be match fixing and if I were in a position of authority i'd make sure it was investigated. but since I am not I need 100 percent proof before I either A. assume it is match fixing or B. treat anyone assuming it's match fixing as with even a gram of legitimacy.
Then why are you fighting this so hard? Are you trying to make a point to not call someone guilty until it is 10000000000000000000% confirmed? If so, you chose a pretty poor case to make people understand it's not right.
well I don't need to convince other people defending innocence until it's proven is still the right thing to do if anyone believes you or not
I don't think me (and others who believe MarineKing is guilty) want to judge him right here right now. We want an investigation by Kespa/Blizzard. Have someone who can actually do anything about it look into it and make a decision.
As it is, they are completely silent. It's very frustrating and obviously makes it look even more like there is matchfixing going on and no-one wants to deal with it (since it would hurt them in the short term). Better just to go full ostrich and see nothing.
On April 21 2015 15:37 magicallypuzzled wrote: I love how multiple people have said mvp isn't allowed to release the replay yet people are still yelling at them to do it.
I think this thread would look very different if MVP's statement had "we would really like to show you the replay, which proves our player's innocence, but sadly, so far we could not convince kespa to release it. We will try everything we can to convince them the importance of this, so we can clean MKP's name once and for all!" in it, no?
Well they only had 4 weeks to prepare it, can't expect too much
Real problem with "there is no proof, give proof of fixing" point of vue is that: how people are supposed to find any proof if no material is released to NEUTRAL investigation?
How can the police do its job if they have no mean to investigate a crime scene? It's like "We received a phone call of pinnacle saying they see their neighboor wife is being stabbed to death. Then walking by, we found some blood on the ground, but when we knocked the door, we met the neighboor husband who stated that nothing happened, so we did not push any investigation further, there was no murder."
Anyway, I assume no neutral source will ever be able to analyse the replay nor scan MKP personnal computer for messaging services history, so whatever, this case is closed, nothing else will happen.
Do you think it would be a good marketing ploy for kespa to charge full force at matchfixing, and as first steps, destroy a few (guilty) players to show they are serious? Or is digging their head in the sand actually more beneficial?
On April 21 2015 15:46 Volband wrote: Do you think it would be a good marketing ploy for kespa to charge full force at matchfixing, and as first steps, destroy a few (guilty) players to show they are serious? Or is digging their head in the sand actually more beneficial?
I'd say it's more beneficial for Kespa until it's revealed, after which is less beneficial. So if it's never uncovered, this strategy is better for them.
On April 21 2015 15:31 magicallypuzzled wrote: actually no my position from the very beginning has been it seems highly likely to be match fixing [...]
I get the impression that the discussion in this thread is mostly about whether the probability that MKP match fixed is 90%, 99%, 99.9% or 99.999999%, and exactly how much you are allowed to dust off your pitchforks at these probabilities.
I think very few think that fixing is unlikely, say below 10%, or that the probability is a mathematical exact 100% (lolz) when they really think about it and understand the evidence, even though it may seem that way when the discussion get a bit heated. People that come in with an opinion before understanding evidence should probably be politely directed to a post explaining the betting evidence in a bit more detail, rather than flamed.
So I guess a few more relevant question are 1) How should we treat MKP? Cheer for him as if nothing happened? Shun him like the plague? Something in between? 2) Can we encourage parties in power (KESPA, korean police, more? blizzard?) to take action in any way? Such as launching investigations for example. Do we even want action to be taken? 3) What options do we, as the community of watchers, have to take action if nothing happens, and these suspicious events continue? Stop watching? Spam sponsors? Pretend nothing happens? Accept the situation and add liquibets on which games will get canceled by pinnacle?
I haven't played SC2 since WoL and I really couldn't care less, but I find all of this very entertaining. MKP either went full retard, or he matchfixed. What a shitty place for him to be in lol
As an outsider with no shits given altogether, I personally believe there's no concrete evidence to say he's guilty. There's a lot of really suspicious stuff, but all of that combined is still not enough for me to hate on the guy.
As a somewhat more convincing example of how he could have genuinely went full retard, he could have been practicing this map a lot and all of his zerg practice partners happen to always put an overlord over there. After 40 games of 'knowing' there's an overlord there, he might have just had a lapse of judgement and just automatically assumed the red dot was an overlord. I've done this kind of shit in FPS games all the time when there's much less things to think about, and I'm sure everyone who has played any FPS game can relate to it (why didn't I check that corner....). I have no idea why the reapers aren't scouting though, I just don't have enough game knowledge for that.
To put it into perspective, I would put my money 8:2 that he's guilty, but I wouldn't hate on him just for being 80% convinced. All you guys need way better evidence to rage at this whole thing, and to me this whole thread sounds like it's a matter of perspective. It sounds to me like the large majority of people defending MKP thinks he's probably guilty, but they're right to say that there is no hard evidence. It's really a bunch of misunderstanding and/or raging at other people over the internet because the opportunity presented itself.
On a different subject, I'm more curious though how a zerg player expects this to work more often than not. Is that corner usually not checked or what...? I feel like you're almost guaranteed to lose when it gets spotted and it seems stupidly easy to spot.
I also find it funny how shocking it is to some people that matchfixing could potentially be occurring. It's definitely occurring, and it's really not something to get overexcited about If you paid 50 dollars for a PPV boxing match and one of them threw the fight, then yea...you can get pissed off at that. For SC2, almost all of the games are genuine and you got cheated out of 1 game, whooptie. To me, SC2 (at least in WoL days) was a whole slew of mediocre to shitty games even at the pro level. Within the cesspool, the memorable games/series were very easily distinguished and you can be 100% certain that those games weren't fake.
On April 21 2015 15:46 EvilsPresley wrote: Real problem with "there is no proof, give proof of fixing" point of vue is that: how people are supposed to find any proof if no material is released to NEUTRAL investigation?
How can the police do its job if they have no mean to investigate a crime scene? It's like "We received a phone call of pinnacle saying they see their neighboor wife is being stabbed to death. Then walking by, we found some blood on the ground, but when we knocked the door, we met the neighboor husband who stated that nothing happened, so we did not push any investigation further, there was no murder."
Anyway, I assume no neutral source will ever be able to analyse the replay nor scan MKP personnal computer for messaging services history, so whatever, this case is closed, nothing else will happen.
except no one here is the police nor should they attempt to become the police for any reason what so ever.
EPT
