EPTI am totally disappointed by Hot_bid, by the way.
MVP's Statement on MarineKing - Page 13
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Quixotic_tv
Germany130 Posts
I am totally disappointed by Hot_bid, by the way. | ||
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Teodice
Sweden641 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
But at the very end, all evidence gave us the same answer What evidence ? Not renewing my SPL sub for that. | ||
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
On April 21 2015 13:09 Charoisaur wrote: Disgusting some people still believe he matchfixed. Do you really think MK would lie? His team has investigated it and they are sure he didn't matchfix, if that doesn't convince you I don't know what does. The argumentation of those who still believe he matchfixed is ridicolous."he made a mistake so the game was fixed. Progamers never make mistakes, they are perfect sc2 gods who always do the right decision" lol I bet half of you wouldn't have seen the spine either. Edit: also +1 to TB; innocent until proven guilty, worthless accusations aren't doing anything. Yeah dude, I bet his mom thinks he's innocent too, so he's pretty solid! Jesus, if your post is not sarcasm, then no wonder things like this can happen. On April 21 2015 11:42 SnowStormer wrote: MK, a player infamous for cracking under pressure - often pressure he himself created - lost a game badly. Which he does often, which people know. At best all thats been presented was a plausible scenario. I don't even understand people like you, who straight out refuses to even mention the suspicious betting. What's the point? Why even bother posting? Imagine if everyone mysteriously "forgot" relevant stuff from the story, and people were arguing here whether MKP even played that day or not, haha. After reading through this thread, I'm actually more disappointed in people in general for making BS posts like these, than in MKP. At least he could have reasons I can get behind, like being short on money - still not makes him innocent, obviously -, but fanboyism is no excuse for making posts like these, which eject common sense. /rant | ||
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magicallypuzzled
United States588 Posts
On April 21 2015 14:53 Volband wrote: Yeah dude, I bet his mom thinks he's innocent too, so he's pretty solid! Jesus, if your post is not sarcasm, then no wonder things like this can happen. I don't even understand people like you, who straight out refuses to even mention the suspicious betting. What's the point? Why even bother posting? Imagine if everyone mysteriously "forgot" relevant stuff from the story, and people were arguing here whether MKP even played that day or not, haha. After reading through this thread, I'm actually more disappointed in people in general for making BS posts like these, than in MKP. At least he could have reasons I can get behind, like being short on money - still not makes him innocent, obviously -, but fanboyism is no excuse for making posts like these, which eject common sense. /rant because frankly the suspicious betting is irrelevant and doesn't prove anything. | ||
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
On April 21 2015 14:56 magicallypuzzled wrote: because frankly the suspicious betting is irrelevant and doesn't prove anything. How is it irrelevant? It is exactly what makes a rare, but not unheard of blunder into something more than suspicious. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
I guess blind fanboyism gets the best of us all. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On April 21 2015 14:56 magicallypuzzled wrote: because frankly the suspicious betting is irrelevant and doesn't prove anything. Not proof, but don't you think irrelevant is a bit of a stretch? | ||
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
On April 21 2015 15:01 Dodgin wrote: So many naive people in this thread, and here I thought TL members were mostly smart people I guess blind fanboyism gets the best of us all. Personally I don't mind MKP fans being hopeful, there is no 100% definitive proof (which would be he admitting it), so I don't expect them to not be guided by their hearts, but the dismissal of such an important anomaly like the suspicious betting, or legitimately believing that if a team is defending it's star player, then we are stupid for not believing it, is just beyond me. | ||
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magicallypuzzled
United States588 Posts
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magicallypuzzled
United States588 Posts
On April 21 2015 15:03 Cascade wrote: Not proof, but don't you think irrelevant is a bit of a stretch? yeah a bit of one but I am annoyed at his attitude and I tend to over state my self when that happens | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On April 21 2015 15:06 magicallypuzzled wrote: and it's that exactly logic that makes it impossible to take your position seriously. the betting doesn't prove anything it certainly doesn't make a not unheard of error look suspicious. when the much easier explanation that mkp is his own worst enemy and bettors were willing to bet on that again being the case, has much more evidence and proof backing it up. Except it is an unheard of error. Look through the threads to see the posts from people who actually understand the game or watch the talk shows(remax) that discussed it. The errors is the whole reason this specific match is receiving more attention than the other voided ones. | ||
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DJHelium
Sweden13480 Posts
As for the statement itself, it's about what I expected. "But at the very end, all evidence gave us the same answer – Lee was not matchfixing." Would love it if MVP could explain what evidence they found. Obviously we have no proof of anything as of now, but the circumstantial evidence clearly points towards MarineKing matchfixing. I don't know where to take this from now. Best thing would be if Kespa said anything about it I guess, but they never will. | ||
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magicallypuzzled
United States588 Posts
On April 21 2015 15:10 Dodgin wrote: Except it is an unheard of error. Look through the threads to see the posts from people who actually understand the game or watch the talk shows(remax) that discussed it. The errors is the whole reason this specific match is receiving more attention than the other voided ones. I used his words and frankly it really isn't any more than some one cannon rushing without a forge or forgetting a important upgrade or any of a hundred stupid mistakes people make and that's with out getting into the doozies mkp has done him self like the unheard of mistake of nuking his own army. mkp is trash he's always been trash and he doesn't need match fixing to throw something in a totally retarded way. User was warned for this post | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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Wormi
Germany181 Posts
i´m done with the korean starcraft scene. | ||
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DJHelium
Sweden13480 Posts
On April 21 2015 15:15 magicallypuzzled wrote: I used his words and frankly it really isn't any more than some one cannon rushing without a forge or forgetting a important upgrade or any of a hundred stupid mistakes people make and that's with out getting into the doozies mkp has done him self like the unheard of mistake of nuking his own army. mkp is trash he's always been trash and he doesn't need match fixing to throw something in a totally retarded way. No this was a way bigger error. Forgetting a forge is just that - forgetting a forge. When you scout and opponent and see no natural, late pool and late gas, you process that information. Any masters+ level player, let alone a pro, will realize that there's a hatchery out somewhere on the map. They will also realize at what time pool will be done and when fastest possible ling speed is done. As a player to then not process this information and instead make a deliberate decision not to scout with your reaper is unheard of. It's completely crazy. The only reason a player wouldn't do it if they were high on something (as in drugs) or if they didn't want to find the proxy hatchery. This was the big mistake in the match. Then not seeing buildings and creep on the minimap makes this even more likely to be a thrown game, but things like that could be a mistake (and something MarineKing is kinda known for). I assume most of the matchfixing going on isn't this obvious, since the best way to throw a game is obviously to do it subtle. Now since MarineKing screwed up, scouting something he didn't expect, it got almost comical. If he had lost like he was supposed to, he would've just been another suspect like San, Inno, Soulkey etc. where we can't prove or even highly suspect anything. | ||
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magicallypuzzled
United States588 Posts
On April 21 2015 15:22 Wormi wrote: if you walk into a pigsty and there is something that looks like a pig, smells like a pig and sounds like a pig, it´s a fucking pig. not the farmer preparing himself for a costume party. you don´t really need a pig scientist for confirmation. i´m done with the korean starcraft scene. don't complain about looking like an idiot when it turns out to not be a pig though also your scenario is rather poor it's more like getting a long distance look at some thing that looks like a real pig and there are sounds of a real pig in the area. but your still assuming it's a pig before you get a real look at it. | ||
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
On April 21 2015 15:06 magicallypuzzled wrote: and it's that exactly logic that makes it impossible to take your position seriously. the betting doesn't prove anything it certainly doesn't make a not unheard of error look suspicious. when the much easier explanation that mkp is his own worst enemy and bettors were willing to bet on that again being the case, has much more evidence and proof backing it up. Wait, let me make it clear. You are saying that people just had a gut feeling that this game he will surely slip, so let's just raise the usual bets by a lot. It could've been his previous game, or the game before that, or... but no, betting people that day just woke up with that feeling simultaneously. John was drinking his morning coffee, Jane was washing her hair, Jason was jogging around the block, and they all just thought "screw this, for this game, imma throw in a couple thousand more!". That's like a miracle in itself, but someone must've had a goldfish, because it did not stop there. For some reason MKP did slip up big time. It can happen, yes, you are saying the same thing since the early pages, yes, people forgot forges, yes, we get it, but for some reason MKP forgot his forge on this already miraculous day. And then even the caster remarks MKP's strange behavior. This guy casted MKP before and probably watched a hell lotta game from him, it's his job after all to keep himself updated, but for some magical reason, he found him strange in this exact game. Your conclusion? Innocent for sure, and you don't even know why does this thing require it's own thread to begin with. I mean, someone cannon rushed without a forge once. I suppose ignorance is bliss. | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On April 21 2015 13:27 Doodsmack wrote: He did not have vision of the "overlord" spot with any of his units for over a minute. He would have realized that. Not only that, but the creep would have been on his minimap (unless they changed that since I played). So a red blip plus a dark area on his minimap... On April 21 2015 14:46 Quixotic_tv wrote: Again: Please prove that he cheated. As suspicious as it is, there is no proof. Still. I am totally disappointed by Hot_bid, by the way. In the strictest sense you are correct that there's no proof here. But let's take a step back and look at everything we have here: You have Pinnacle voiding several bets Two sources in the Korean scene reporting that match-fixing is an open secret (both people vouched for by admins as trustworthy individuals) A game where multiple pro's (Welmu, Huk, Kane to name a few) have publicly weighed in that this just isn't the kind of mistake someone can conceivably make. And of course actual fixed matches in Starcraft history (not just Broodwar, but in SC2 all the way from little Korean online cups to a recent WCS too). So no, there's no lock-solid proof that MKP fixed this match, but we can be pretty sure that matches are being fixed and this seems the most likely game so far. | ||
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