EPTEven as a T player, that seems ridiculous against Protoss. I want the old WM, but this is 'balance' via sledgehammer rather than scalpel.
Edit: this is assuming it does 40+40 shield splash damage for all 1.75 radius. Maybe I read it wrong.
Balance Test Map Update Incoming - July 15 - Page 2
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Genome852
United States979 Posts
Even as a T player, that seems ridiculous against Protoss. I want the old WM, but this is 'balance' via sledgehammer rather than scalpel. Edit: this is assuming it does 40+40 shield splash damage for all 1.75 radius. Maybe I read it wrong. | ||
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pieroog
Poland146 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On July 16 2014 02:39 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: They're fixing widow mines, not hellbats :p They fixed hellbats in the last patch though  (and hellbats were only his strength in TvT; in TvZ he was particularily good with mines) Can say I like that they react to the feedback and to tests. 10second Time Warp is probably going to be only of rare usage in all matchups - which I don't mind too much. It's not like it is particularily needed, outside of certain timing attacks that I don't want to see anyways. Not sure what to think of the widow mine revert to original. I guess the same as what I said back when they nerfed it, it's not going to break the matchup. It's just still nothing to help Terran with lategame massive baneling/mutalisk numbers and just aiming towards keeping the matchup as 1dimensional as can be, with the same 4units being used by Terran all game long, and Zerg maybe transitioning into some more or less redundant ultralisks after 15mins of MLB... | ||
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Extenz
Italy822 Posts
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ssxsilver
United States4409 Posts
On July 16 2014 02:43 Genome852 wrote: Wait, WM will do full damage in its area of effect (rather than doing less damage at outer edges) AND retain shield damage bonus? Even as a T player, that seems ridiculous against Protoss. Yeah. I had to vote no b/c of that. I think the AOE unnerf is great for TvZ, but it's like they're not watching. Widow mines +shields are absurd against zealot/templar and buffing it anymore makes no sense. I'm okay with say a research to give +shield damage, but having it do that much stock damage is overkill. | ||
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Nnoitra
Portugal7 Posts
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VegaMatt
United Kingdom11 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On July 16 2014 02:46 pieroog wrote: Dear Terrans... 40+40 with instant damage just for 75/25 - please bear this in mind when commenting on PSI Storm with 80 over 4seconds And with instant you mean after 2seconds, assuming the mine is even burrowed and you are continuously staying in a range of 5 for those 2seconds. And with Psi storm you mean a 9range ability... Apples and Oranges... lots of ups and downs that make those things incomparable. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On July 16 2014 02:48 Nnoitra wrote: Mines can't destroy mineral lines but oracles can... just a small distraction and in seconds an oracle can wipe an entire SCV line, why can't terrans have that ability and protoss can? Don't get me wrong, i don't like the idea, I don't like mines destroying protoss worker lines, i don't think a game should end like that as i don't agree with the damage oracles do. It's exactly the same for worker lines as it was before the mine nerf! Mines one-shoted them before the nerf. Mines one-shot them now. Dealing 40 or 80damage to a unit that has 40life makes no difference. So the question to ask is, were mines broken against Protoss mineral lines before the nerf? Hell no, by far not. It was a rather rare build... | ||
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pichoo
Australia123 Posts
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On July 16 2014 02:46 pieroog wrote: Dear Terrans... 40+40 with instant damage just for 75/25 - please bear this in mind when commenting on PSI Storm with 80 over 4seconds 2s, not instant. half the range. Only one cast every 40s. Can't morph into 360 hp units with 40 atk. Can't OS medivacs/ghosts/raven with only one spell. | ||
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zelevin
United States300 Posts
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nukkuj
Finland403 Posts
But overall, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Bigger problem in the game on Terran side is lack of lategame options/transitions like many of us are pointing out in several threads. These changes probably don't change much in my low league gameplay, but I'm hoping to see more high level terrans play in WCS.  | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
On July 16 2014 02:42 beg wrote: honestly, isn't the real problem against protoss their multitude of unscoutable stupid aggressive builds? the majority of my TvPs i'm facing some sort of near unscoutable aggression. on the contrary, i'm not having major problems in late game, except terran's army seems to be harder to control, but it's still fun. the only thing that really pisses me off is how protoss can literally build no defensive units and still pin me to my base and make me guess which stupid shit is coming for me. this patch won't do anything to improve my TvP experience I really don't see how the aggression is unscoutable unless Protoss hides tech structures somewhere on the map - and even then it isn't unscoutable, you just don't scout it. You have scans. Obviously you would rather not scan, but if you drop a money scan, see what's coming, you can defend accordingly. | ||
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emidanRKO
United States137 Posts
You seriously think that Widow Mines are "ridiculous" against chargelots? Have you not been watching mine-based TvPs play out for the past months? Have you seen how bad a protoss has to micro in order to actually suffer from that? This is a great change, and with the added bonus of not removing the extra shield damage, I think protoss at all levels will suddenly be much harder to play against terran. A much needed change...but I still feel like something needs to be done about tanks and/or immortals to make mech much more viable. Although Blizzard doesn't seem to be going in that direction whatsoever... In a game where the protoss basically knows you will go a particular tech route, and only needs to know whether you are going to attack or not, it's not very fair scouting-wise since all he has to do is check your number of barracks. Hell, you can basically assume aggression, since late-game is auto screwed if you decided to go bio into mid-game. | ||
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pichoo
Australia123 Posts
On July 16 2014 02:59 Faust852 wrote: 2s, not instant. half the range. Only one cast every 40s. Can't morph into 360 hp units with 40 atk. Can't OS medivacs/ghosts/raven with only one spell. i add some Need to slowly burrow before the 2s goes off easily detected with toss having the best reveal hidden units (obs), easily destroyed with collosus long range potentially can only be useful in 1 engagement before it gets destroyed. Maybe the only decent AOE for terran | ||
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BellmanFord
United States8 Posts
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beg
991 Posts
On July 16 2014 03:06 Larkin wrote: I really don't see how the aggression is unscoutable unless Protoss hides tech structures somewhere on the map - and even then it isn't unscoutable, you just don't scout it. You have scans. Obviously you would rather not scan, but if you drop a money scan, see what's coming, you can defend accordingly. i'm talking mainly about proxy, yes. yes, it's theoretically scoutable. but you'll have to scout it in time too. it's really really difficult... and no fun at all if >50% of your TvPs are about scouting their hidden bullshit. ...while protoss almost literally doesnt have to build defensive units. all this patch really does is help against zealot-heavy protoss armies... but hellbats already do the job very well, except only few people play that style (just like no one plays mine-heavy). to me the buff seems redundant and doesnt do too much to help terran. (talking TvP only here. obviously the mine buff will be strong in TvZ.) | ||
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swag_bro
Japan782 Posts
On July 16 2014 02:46 pieroog wrote: Dear Terrans... 40+40 with instant damage just for 75/25 - please bear this in mind when commenting on PSI Storm with 80 over 4seconds Yes, but is unreliable and you can't reliably target things. Storm, on the other hand, can easily be controlled as to where the damage is allocated. Mines are a hit or miss. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On July 16 2014 03:16 swag_bro wrote: Yes, but is unreliable and you can't reliably target things. Storm, on the other hand, can easily be controlled as to where the damage is allocated. Mines are a hit or miss. Mines are always hit... Storms can be dodged. Again, apples and oranges. I'd just stop that comparison  | ||
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