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Damn I hate WM, I'm a zerg player so I understand that I'm biased.
I understand the logic behind zerg having to micro and split too and I like that idea.
The actual problem is that its unbeatable, seriously old mines were just wotf. How do you split your zergling army against marines? The only hope of beating marines with zergling/baneling is surrounding the terran army. I you don't surround them them stutter step and split endlessly countering banelings with marines >_>
So what do you do as zerg, dance around the marines so you split for the widow mines fire while the WM and marines kills loads of your army or do you charge in and have your whole army go booom..... So either you lose or you lose. Seriously I get so mad just thinking about it, before the patch I was going BH just because of mine fields which made me lose because terrans just moved too fast, then I tried hydras, didn't help and the stupid range is bugged the WMs hit hydras sometimes even if they have range. My winrate vs T before patch was like 40% and thats not because I suck since I had good % against all other races in my league.
I guess I need to learn some all-ins or just leave vs terrans *sigh*.
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On July 16 2014 03:19 Shuffleblade wrote:
Damn I hate WM, I'm a zerg player so I understand that I'm biased.
I understand the logic behind zerg having to micro and split too and I like that idea.
The actual problem is that its unbeatable, seriously old mines were just wotf. How do you split your zergling army against marines? The only hope of beating marines with zergling/baneling is surrounding the terran army. I you don't surround them them stutter step and split endlessly countering banelings with marines >_>
So what do you do as zerg, dance around the marines so you split for the widow mines fire while the WM and marines kills loads of your army or do you charge in and have your whole army go booom..... So either you lose or you lose. Seriously I get so mad just thinking about it, before the patch I was going BH just because of mine fields which made me lose because terrans just moved too fast, then I tried hydras, didn't help and the stupid range is bugged the WMs hit hydras sometimes even if they have range. My winrate vs T before patch was like 40% and thats not because I suck since I had good % against all other races in my league.
I guess I need to learn some all-ins or just leave vs terrans *sigh*.
not sure if mines were actually imba, but the 4M style grew dull and boring pretty fast...
i personally wouldnt wanna go back to that era...
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Z is gonna struggle against new 4m o-o
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I really don't think terran, or the game, needs the ability to blow up 20 mutas in one second and more or less end the game instantly. As exciting as the old mines could be, they added such a huge random element and felt overly punishing. I'm still miffed they seem intent on just buffing the already good units as opposed to trying to make the bad ones better. I have no idea how the new mines will be for protoss either.
The issue for terran is how to deal with Zerg once they're on Hive tech with ultras and still have the 20+ mutas in the air. Not sure how this helps that situation.
The time warp double nerf kind of illustrates how absurd the ability is right now. The MSC being able to cast two of them really is the kicker, 2x 30 sec TW is just broken. Good change.
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your Country52798 Posts
I like these changes. Time warp is going to be looked at a lot more closely and will require more skill to use properly.
Not sure about the widow mine change, the wording on it is sort of odd.
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Old mines back? But with extra hate for toss? Oh happy day to see the other races micro again, good changes lets roll em' through!
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On July 16 2014 03:18 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 03:16 swag_bro wrote:On July 16 2014 02:46 pieroog wrote:
Dear Terrans... 40+40 with instant damage just for 75/25 - please bear this in mind when commenting on PSI Storm with 80 over 4seconds Yes, but is unreliable and you can't reliably target things. Storm, on the other hand, can easily be controlled as to where the damage is allocated. Mines are a hit or miss. Mines are always hit... Storms can be dodged. Again, apples and oranges. I'd just stop that comparison 
I was talking about Mines being a hit or miss on damage potential. Yes, it can kill a bunch of stuff, but at the same time, it can shoot at something you don't want it to and just kill like one thing. Too random. Mines should not have that reload thing. They should just unburrow once an enemy gets in range of them and self-destruct. And they can have autocast too so the Terran can make them not activate them if need be. A little like bane mines.
And has anyone ever tried ghost-mech vs Protoss? I find that ghosts+thor+hellbats+ravens are extremely good versus late game Protoss. Bring along some SCVs too.
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I'm a balance whining Terran and I approve.
Congrats, Protoss, soon you will deserve your wins!
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Holy shit they reverted a change?
I switched to Zerg but I think it's a fair change to even the importance of micro in the TvZ MU a bit.
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On July 16 2014 02:46 pieroog wrote:
Dear Terrans... 40+40 with instant damage just for 75/25 - please bear this in mind when commenting on PSI Storm with 80 over 4seconds
And to add one final(?) one to the list, the mine's randomness means that it is as likely to kill your own stuff as the enemy's. You would have to be a stupid Toss'er to kill your own units with storm, especially as most Protoss units have a lot of HP.
I prefer these tweaks to the Thor/mine/timewarp than the previous ones by a lot.
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Actually the 4M style in hots has always been here againts Zerg before this buff, it's just that the effectiveness comes into question versus getting a marauder or hellbat instead. Bomber showed us against violet the heavy marauder style (10 rax on 3 bases) instead of mines, which was very successful.
It makes sense as Z needs 5 banes to kill a marauder, while mines may only random kill 1-2 banes with few lings before the buff.
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I guess i have to switch from zerg to terran. Really liked Zerg macro. But their units are trash.
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Finaly lol hope we see flash soon back: 
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So, transformation servos when armoury is built AND reverted widow mine change? How does either help TvP? Why screw the Zerg player over? It's not like TvZ is the big bugbear that TvP is.
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On July 16 2014 03:21 beg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 03:19 Shuffleblade wrote:
Damn I hate WM, I'm a zerg player so I understand that I'm biased.
I understand the logic behind zerg having to micro and split too and I like that idea.
The actual problem is that its unbeatable, seriously old mines were just wotf. How do you split your zergling army against marines? The only hope of beating marines with zergling/baneling is surrounding the terran army. I you don't surround them them stutter step and split endlessly countering banelings with marines >_>
So what do you do as zerg, dance around the marines so you split for the widow mines fire while the WM and marines kills loads of your army or do you charge in and have your whole army go booom..... So either you lose or you lose. Seriously I get so mad just thinking about it, before the patch I was going BH just because of mine fields which made me lose because terrans just moved too fast, then I tried hydras, didn't help and the stupid range is bugged the WMs hit hydras sometimes even if they have range. My winrate vs T before patch was like 40% and thats not because I suck since I had good % against all other races in my league.
I guess I need to learn some all-ins or just leave vs terrans *sigh*. not sure if mines were actually imba, but the 4M style grew dull and boring pretty fast... i personally wouldnt wanna go back to that era...
don't worry, now there are Hellbats too!
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On July 16 2014 03:21 beg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 03:19 Shuffleblade wrote:
Damn I hate WM, I'm a zerg player so I understand that I'm biased.
I understand the logic behind zerg having to micro and split too and I like that idea.
The actual problem is that its unbeatable, seriously old mines were just wotf. How do you split your zergling army against marines? The only hope of beating marines with zergling/baneling is surrounding the terran army. I you don't surround them them stutter step and split endlessly countering banelings with marines >_>
So what do you do as zerg, dance around the marines so you split for the widow mines fire while the WM and marines kills loads of your army or do you charge in and have your whole army go booom..... So either you lose or you lose. Seriously I get so mad just thinking about it, before the patch I was going BH just because of mine fields which made me lose because terrans just moved too fast, then I tried hydras, didn't help and the stupid range is bugged the WMs hit hydras sometimes even if they have range. My winrate vs T before patch was like 40% and thats not because I suck since I had good % against all other races in my league.
I guess I need to learn some all-ins or just leave vs terrans *sigh*. not sure if mines were actually imba, but the 4M style grew dull and boring pretty fast... i personally wouldnt wanna go back to that era...
People still play 4M almost every game, only difference being that terrans aren't in any tournaments
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Sad to see no experimentation with tanks =/
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On July 16 2014 03:12 beg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 03:06 Larkin wrote:On July 16 2014 02:42 beg wrote:
honestly,
isn't the real problem against protoss their multitude of unscoutable stupid aggressive builds? the majority of my TvPs i'm facing some sort of near unscoutable aggression.
on the contrary, i'm not having major problems in late game, except terran's army seems to be harder to control, but it's still fun.
the only thing that really pisses me off is how protoss can literally build no defensive units and still pin me to my base and make me guess which stupid shit is coming for me.
this patch won't do anything to improve my TvP experience I really don't see how the aggression is unscoutable unless Protoss hides tech structures somewhere on the map - and even then it isn't unscoutable, you just don't scout it. You have scans. Obviously you would rather not scan, but if you drop a money scan, see what's coming, you can defend accordingly. ...while protoss almost literally doesnt have to build defensive units.
If a Protoss doesn't build any or very few defensive units early game PvT a decent stimmed Marine/Marauder force can kill them outright, even WITH Photon Overcharge. Stim absolutely destroys P armies and I've lost many games to Terran counter aggression when I've gone for Oracle or tried to poke.
It's all in the scouting, note pylons, if you don't see 3 pylons when you scout with your reaper or whatever. Something somewhere is proxied, go look for it. If it's a Stargate, that's easy to hold, DT's? Easy to hold.
Blink, however is the problem, as a Protoss I'll admit, early game blink attacks are dumb, they're dumb in PvP and they're even dumber in PvT. That's why time warp doesn't need a reduction it needs locking to Twilight Council research. One or the other, simple as imo.
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EPT
