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On July 16 2014 04:00 Shuffleblade wrote:
The funny thing is, yes zerg just A-moves... Yes thats true, thats because we can't micro lol.
You try stuttersteping your zerglings away from the marines and mines while splitting your lings. Big help that will do you, you see the zerglings are melee. You want Z to micro, I wouldn't mind that at all, then give us ranged units that aren't totally trashed in both matchups.
Forcing Z to micro lings more than is already done with flanks and surrounds is just silly, what are we supposed to do, spread them out and hod position while they stares the marines down? Bound to do tons of damage I'm sure.
Early hots showed Z micro against mines, triggering them with split groups of lings. With current mines, often the Z will just attack move over them and take the hits because their APM may be better spent elsewhere.
Why would you stutter step with zerglings??
Also, ling flanks are not APM intensive.
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On July 16 2014 02:40 PineapplePizza wrote:
This is so damn weird.
They gut punch the mine and throw out this hillariously miniscule 0.2 attack speed buff for the tank in the name of 'variety'...
...then after completely ignoring the game until a particular megathread appears, they decide for the first time in sc2 history to revert a bad patch that was poorly received for being random and unnecessary...
thus, all those months of Code B Flash were completely for naught.
We'll go back to slightly Terran-favored, incredibly-bitchy Zergs and nonstop biomine till lotv beta in october or something.
If you honestly think the LOTV beta will come any sooner than spring 2015 you are crazy
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On July 16 2014 02:42 beg wrote:
honestly,
isn't the real problem against protoss their multitude of unscoutable stupid aggressive builds? the majority of my TvPs i'm facing some sort of near unscoutable aggression.
on the contrary, i'm not having major problems in late game, except terran's army seems to be harder to control, but it's still fun.
the only thing that really pisses me off is how protoss can literally build no defensive units and still pin me to my base and make me guess which stupid shit is coming for me.
this patch won't do anything to improve my TvP experience
I think a simple missile turrets no longer requiring an ebay would to wonder for early game terran.
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On July 16 2014 04:16 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 02:42 beg wrote:
honestly,
isn't the real problem against protoss their multitude of unscoutable stupid aggressive builds? the majority of my TvPs i'm facing some sort of near unscoutable aggression.
on the contrary, i'm not having major problems in late game, except terran's army seems to be harder to control, but it's still fun.
the only thing that really pisses me off is how protoss can literally build no defensive units and still pin me to my base and make me guess which stupid shit is coming for me.
this patch won't do anything to improve my TvP experience I think a simple missile turrets no longer requiring an ebay would to wonder for early game terran.
that would be a huuuuuuuuge change in 2 match ups.
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It’s a minor improvement to players who aren’t able to micro Thors against Mutalisks in combat...
Disregarding how the Thor AA change makes generally more sense, this exemplifies the issue with most Blizzard "balance" patches. They should be making changes to the game where only better players are stronger. Even though it's just a minor change, way to even the already flat playing field.
While the change makes sense, their justification is terrible. =\
It would be nice if they listened to such things like the ideas/concerns presented on http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/461533-star-hangshow-s4e4-balance-talk-with-flash (that have been said over and over again previously by many)
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On July 16 2014 04:19 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 04:16 Morbidius wrote:On July 16 2014 02:42 beg wrote:
honestly,
isn't the real problem against protoss their multitude of unscoutable stupid aggressive builds? the majority of my TvPs i'm facing some sort of near unscoutable aggression.
on the contrary, i'm not having major problems in late game, except terran's army seems to be harder to control, but it's still fun.
the only thing that really pisses me off is how protoss can literally build no defensive units and still pin me to my base and make me guess which stupid shit is coming for me.
this patch won't do anything to improve my TvP experience I think a simple missile turrets no longer requiring an ebay would to wonder for early game terran. that would be a huuuuuuuuge change in 2 match ups.
In TvP it would reduce the randomness factor of openings, banshees openings will certainly be hurt but who the hell doesn't have ebays when mutas arrive? I can only see good coming from it.
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Omg I am glad I only play team games now lol.
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On July 16 2014 04:23 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 04:19 sAsImre wrote:On July 16 2014 04:16 Morbidius wrote:On July 16 2014 02:42 beg wrote:
honestly,
isn't the real problem against protoss their multitude of unscoutable stupid aggressive builds? the majority of my TvPs i'm facing some sort of near unscoutable aggression.
on the contrary, i'm not having major problems in late game, except terran's army seems to be harder to control, but it's still fun.
the only thing that really pisses me off is how protoss can literally build no defensive units and still pin me to my base and make me guess which stupid shit is coming for me.
this patch won't do anything to improve my TvP experience I think a simple missile turrets no longer requiring an ebay would to wonder for early game terran. that would be a huuuuuuuuge change in 2 match ups. In TvP it would reduce the randomness factor of openings, banshees openings will certainly be hurt but who the hell doesn't have ebays when mutas arrive? I can only see good coming from it.
tvt and banshee openings. would make raven openings pointless too which would shake the metagame quite a bit.
vZ you need ebays earlier than mutas except if you're meching
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On July 16 2014 03:33 SlammerSC2 wrote:
I guess i have to switch from zerg to terran. Really liked Zerg macro. But their units are trash.
As a Terran, it is by far the most apm intensive race, switch if you want but you will suffer for a while
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On July 16 2014 04:09 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 04:04 Big J wrote:On July 16 2014 03:52 plogamer wrote:On July 16 2014 03:41 Gojira621 wrote:
I don't want to come off as a whiny zerg, but when hots came out I could not beat terrans who went biomine with ling bane muta. Even if I tried to bait mine shots or split my lings and banes up, the mines did so much damage that it only took 1 or 2 good hits out of the 6-8 mines planted to obliterate half my forces, then the bio runs in and wipes out everything, and then the parade death push began. If we're basically going back to that it's gonna be a bad time. I understand terrans are struggling right now but mines were just simply too strong before to deal with effectively. Add in the new hellbat timings that straight up kill lots of zergs and zvt will be uh...interesting to watch, maybe not so fun to play. Welcome to SC2 from a Terran's perspective. If I am not super careful, 6-8 banes are enough to obliterate half my forces too. No. The choice is yours whether you want to have to be careful against banelings. + Show Spoiler + Are you joking? And then I have to worry about not being able to put any real pressure without committing a slow-moving, slow-producing, and expensive army.
*until you are maxed with it. Last time I checked a win counts as a win, regardless of when it was acquired. The question is how reliable you can win with it. Very reliably, (see players like Flash, BByong...)
--> you have a good alternative choice
On July 16 2014 04:09 plogamer wrote:
Then if you hate mines, the choice is yours to play Roach/Hydra. Good luck with drops.
Exactly, it's not reliable as a style. The best roach/hydra user in the world (Hyun) is far from the level of success that players that don't use it have.
--> the alternative choice isn't good
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On July 16 2014 01:56 Yello wrote:
wow what. Getting back the mines from HotS-release against Zerg is cool. But keeping the +shields damage means that mines would be really strong against Toss after that. It's like 40+40 damage in close radius (<1.25) and still 40+10 in full 1.75 then. Combined with the huge time warp nerf that would change a looooooooot. Still not the things most people want to see changed (except maybe the mine returning to it's old stage) though To be honest, that kind of damage change for Widow Mines is necessary in the match up in my opinion. As it currently stands, I, as a Protoss, can a-move my army of zealots through a widow mine field and still be able to engage my opponent's army relatively fine. This change should move the matchup into more of a BW style of play in my opinion where the Protoss player will need to be more careful versus the mine and make for more interested and micro-intensive engagements on the Protoss side of things. I will agree that the Time Warp change seems unneeded and I wish they would look more into Photon Overcharge rather than Time Warp because Photon Overcharge is just too strong at the moment.
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On July 16 2014 04:29 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 04:09 plogamer wrote:On July 16 2014 04:04 Big J wrote:On July 16 2014 03:52 plogamer wrote:On July 16 2014 03:41 Gojira621 wrote:
I don't want to come off as a whiny zerg, but when hots came out I could not beat terrans who went biomine with ling bane muta. Even if I tried to bait mine shots or split my lings and banes up, the mines did so much damage that it only took 1 or 2 good hits out of the 6-8 mines planted to obliterate half my forces, then the bio runs in and wipes out everything, and then the parade death push began. If we're basically going back to that it's gonna be a bad time. I understand terrans are struggling right now but mines were just simply too strong before to deal with effectively. Add in the new hellbat timings that straight up kill lots of zergs and zvt will be uh...interesting to watch, maybe not so fun to play. Welcome to SC2 from a Terran's perspective. If I am not super careful, 6-8 banes are enough to obliterate half my forces too. No. The choice is yours whether you want to have to be careful against banelings. + Show Spoiler + Are you joking? And then I have to worry about not being able to put any real pressure without committing a slow-moving, slow-producing, and expensive army. *until you are maxed with it. Last time I checked a win counts as a win, regardless of when it was acquired. The question is how reliable you can win with it. Very reliably, (see players like Flash, BByong...) --> you have a good alternative choice Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 04:09 plogamer wrote:
Then if you hate mines, the choice is yours to play Roach/Hydra. Good luck with drops. Exactly, it's not reliable as a style. The best roach/hydra user in the world (Hyun) is far from the level of success that players that don't use it have. --> the alternative choice isn't good
or maybe hyun is just a lesser player than SK/Soo ? (i'm agreeing with you btw if you think that roach hydra is quite a gimmick that's map dependant)
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On July 16 2014 04:31 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 04:29 Big J wrote:On July 16 2014 04:09 plogamer wrote:On July 16 2014 04:04 Big J wrote:On July 16 2014 03:52 plogamer wrote:On July 16 2014 03:41 Gojira621 wrote:
I don't want to come off as a whiny zerg, but when hots came out I could not beat terrans who went biomine with ling bane muta. Even if I tried to bait mine shots or split my lings and banes up, the mines did so much damage that it only took 1 or 2 good hits out of the 6-8 mines planted to obliterate half my forces, then the bio runs in and wipes out everything, and then the parade death push began. If we're basically going back to that it's gonna be a bad time. I understand terrans are struggling right now but mines were just simply too strong before to deal with effectively. Add in the new hellbat timings that straight up kill lots of zergs and zvt will be uh...interesting to watch, maybe not so fun to play. Welcome to SC2 from a Terran's perspective. If I am not super careful, 6-8 banes are enough to obliterate half my forces too. No. The choice is yours whether you want to have to be careful against banelings. + Show Spoiler + Are you joking? And then I have to worry about not being able to put any real pressure without committing a slow-moving, slow-producing, and expensive army. *until you are maxed with it. Last time I checked a win counts as a win, regardless of when it was acquired. The question is how reliable you can win with it. Very reliably, (see players like Flash, BByong...) --> you have a good alternative choice On July 16 2014 04:09 plogamer wrote:
Then if you hate mines, the choice is yours to play Roach/Hydra. Good luck with drops. Exactly, it's not reliable as a style. The best roach/hydra user in the world (Hyun) is far from the level of success that players that don't use it have. --> the alternative choice isn't good or maybe hyun is just a lesser player than SK/Soo ? (i'm agreeing with you btw that roach hydra is quite a gimmick that's map dependant)
Of course he isn't as good. I'm just being a dick to someone pretending that Terran==running marines into banelings.
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On July 16 2014 04:35 SatedSC2 wrote:
I think that's too much on Time Warp. To be honest, making it a Cybernetics Core upgrade would be a much better idea than nerfing the spell further (the previous nerf was fine); that would make it something that can't be used in conjunction with one-base all-ins (no one is going to go Time Warp instead of Warp Gate) and makes it hard to squeeze into ultra-fast two-base all-ins such as Blink Stalkers in PvT.
If they're going to revert the Mine nerf then they should revert the +Shields buff so that Templar openings can be used again.
But who is going to spend something like 100/100 for the ability to use 2time warps instead of 2recalls/POs, when you get up to 4forcefields for 50/100?
I think making it an upgrade will just remove it from gameplay at all. Also it needlessly nerfs early zealot/stalker/MsC pressure extremely hard against Zerg. While even a 10second time warp when well-used is probably enough to kill a queen with that attack.
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On July 16 2014 04:35 SatedSC2 wrote:
I think that's too much on Time Warp. To be honest, making it a Cybernetics Core upgrade would be a much better idea than nerfing the spell further (the previous nerf was fine); that would make it something that can't be used in conjunction with one-base all-ins (no one is going to go Time Warp instead of Warp Gate) and makes it hard to squeeze into ultra-fast two-base all-ins such as Blink Stalkers in PvT.
If they're going to revert the Mine nerf then they should revert the +Shields buff so that Templar openings can be used again.
That would be kind of missing the point, which is to make terran stronger and protoss weaker.
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Time warp should be 30 seconds but makes your units faster rather than the other units slower. Like a localized stim. That way the opponent can react and run, or you can out-micro them. Helps the better player win - and that's what SC2 should be all about.
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On July 16 2014 04:16 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 02:42 beg wrote:
honestly,
isn't the real problem against protoss their multitude of unscoutable stupid aggressive builds? the majority of my TvPs i'm facing some sort of near unscoutable aggression.
on the contrary, i'm not having major problems in late game, except terran's army seems to be harder to control, but it's still fun.
the only thing that really pisses me off is how protoss can literally build no defensive units and still pin me to my base and make me guess which stupid shit is coming for me.
this patch won't do anything to improve my TvP experience I think a simple missile turrets no longer requiring an ebay would to wonder for early game terran.
they would still suck against Mutas though. I would make them cost 75 minerals, since they kinda devolved into only buys you time defense.
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I think they just give up on making the mines more fun and instead just focusing on balance right now. Seriously, even though TvZ was balance before the mine nerf, the match up is completely broken (very one dimensional). Every TvZ during the period is the same; either the Terran kills the Zerg with parade push, or he doesn't and die. Also, the mines got too much bang for their bucks back in the days (and after this patch) just like the WoL infestors. The match up as a whole may be balance, but if you need something like this to hold the match up together, you know something is wrong about the Terran race. Man, looks like they have a lot to fix in LotV.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.cheatmasters.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/sc2_mech.jpg)
