On July 21 2014 10:49 Loccstana wrote: Here are things which I would like to see to help late game TvP:
1) Change stim from 50% dps increase to 100% dps increase. Stim in brood war doubled marine dps and it should be that way. 2) Increase medivac heal from 9 hps to 15 hps, like that the upgrade they had in the beta.
On July 21 2014 10:49 Loccstana wrote: Here are things which I would like to see to help late game TvP:
1) Change stim from 50% dps increase to 100% dps increase. Stim in brood war doubled marine dps and it should be that way. 2) Increase medivac heal from 9 hps to 15 hps, like that the upgrade they had in the beta.
That'd wreck every match up. Why would you suggest such things?
Upgrade: Retrofit Researched at: Engineering Bay (cause that's where upgrades for buildings are) Research Requires: Fusion Core (cause it's for the late game) Research Cost: 50/50 (keeping it on the cheaper side--it's like warpgate, everyone should get it probably) Research Time: Whatever is balanced?
Barracks, Factory, and Starports gain the following ability: New Abilities Retrofit Barracks/Factory/Starport Converts this building into a Barracks/Factory/Starport Cast Time: (much shorter than the build time of a new Barracks/Factory/Starport) Cost: Umm...some resources...maybe less than a new building...whatever is balanced? The building cannot make units until the conversion finishes.
Now Terran can tech switch without banking up and/or finding a ton of empty space for new buildings, but at the cost of halting production. Of course the factory/starport units have to be worth using, but maybe it would encourage more experimentation with late game tech switches.
It's probably not a very good idea, but since it requires a new animation we wouldn't see it till legacy of the void anyway!
On July 21 2014 10:49 Loccstana wrote: Here are things which I would like to see to help late game TvP:
1) Change stim from 50% dps increase to 100% dps increase. Stim in brood war doubled marine dps and it should be that way. 2) Increase medivac heal from 9 hps to 15 hps, like that the upgrade they had in the beta.
That'd wreck every match up. Why would you suggest such things?
He wants terran to have a 100% winrate in all matchups (except for the guaranteed 50/50 in TvT of course), and he wants TvT to be bio vs. bio or marine/tank vs. marine/tank exclusively.
On July 21 2014 10:49 Loccstana wrote: Here are things which I would like to see to help late game TvP:
1) Change stim from 50% dps increase to 100% dps increase. Stim in brood war doubled marine dps and it should be that way. 2) Increase medivac heal from 9 hps to 15 hps, like that the upgrade they had in the beta.
That'd wreck every match up. Why would you suggest such things?
Look up his posting history. He's clearly joking. Probably.
On July 21 2014 10:49 Loccstana wrote: Here are things which I would like to see to help late game TvP:
1) Change stim from 50% dps increase to 100% dps increase. Stim in brood war doubled marine dps and it should be that way. 2) Increase medivac heal from 9 hps to 15 hps, like that the upgrade they had in the beta.
That'd wreck every match up. Why would you suggest such things?
He wants terran to have a 100% winrate in all matchups (except for the guaranteed 50/50 in TvT of course), and he wants TvT to be bio vs. bio or marine/tank vs. marine/tank exclusively.
Obviously mech will have to be buffed so that TvT isn't ruined. :D
Wouldn't mind a tech reactors upgrade from the armory with a long ass research time and high cost. Helps with the sudden tech switches against Z and P very late game, no effect in early / mid game, doesn't change unit stats. Late game terran units will still suck but you can be more flexible.
On July 21 2014 12:45 Genome852 wrote: Wouldn't mind a tech reactors upgrade from the armory with a long ass research time and high cost. Helps with the sudden tech switches against Z and P very late game, no effect in early / mid game, doesn't change unit stats. Late game terran units will still suck but you can be more flexible.
I've thought of this as well...
merge the tech lab and reactor, and thus also make it so you can produce double of those things that needed a tech lab normally. It would basically fix all "tech change" issues terran has late game, by virtue of increasing the production (which would still need lots of money, but by this fact it can remain "balanced").
On July 21 2014 10:49 Loccstana wrote: Here are things which I would like to see to help late game TvP:
1) Change stim from 50% dps increase to 100% dps increase. Stim in brood war doubled marine dps and it should be that way. 2) Increase medivac heal from 9 hps to 15 hps, like that the upgrade they had in the beta.
That'd wreck every match up. Why would you suggest such things?
Nonsense! It's actually a terran NERF. Imagine, your DPS can completely drain the medivacs near instantly and then they're useless
On July 21 2014 12:45 Genome852 wrote: Wouldn't mind a tech reactors upgrade from the armory with a long ass research time and high cost. Helps with the sudden tech switches against Z and P very late game, no effect in early / mid game, doesn't change unit stats. Late game terran units will still suck but you can be more flexible.
I've thought of this as well...
merge the tech lab and reactor, and thus also make it so you can produce double of those things that needed a tech lab normally. It would basically fix all "tech change" issues terran has late game, by virtue of increasing the production (which would still need lots of money, but by this fact it can remain "balanced").
I try to minimize tech switch issues by actually having more than one or two of each type of production building.
On July 21 2014 10:49 Loccstana wrote: Here are things which I would like to see to help late game TvP:
1) Change stim from 50% dps increase to 100% dps increase. Stim in brood war doubled marine dps and it should be that way. 2) Increase medivac heal from 9 hps to 15 hps, like that the upgrade they had in the beta.
That'd wreck every match up. Why would you suggest such things?
Nonsense! It's actually a terran NERF. Imagine, your DPS can completely drain the medivacs near instantly and then they're useless
On July 21 2014 12:45 Genome852 wrote: Wouldn't mind a tech reactors upgrade from the armory with a long ass research time and high cost. Helps with the sudden tech switches against Z and P very late game, no effect in early / mid game, doesn't change unit stats. Late game terran units will still suck but you can be more flexible.
I've thought of this as well...
merge the tech lab and reactor, and thus also make it so you can produce double of those things that needed a tech lab normally. It would basically fix all "tech change" issues terran has late game, by virtue of increasing the production (which would still need lots of money, but by this fact it can remain "balanced").
I try to minimize tech switch issues by actually having more than one or two of each type of production building.
Obviously....but producing 3-4 banshees at a time after making 3-4 starports and their respective tech labs which all cut into gas and time and space wouldn't be at the level of a zerg making a huge sudden hydra switch with infinite larva which are sitting conveniently next to their many hatches...point should be clear and that's why you don't often see someone who normally has 10+ barracks suddenly create 10+ factories or 10+ starports without cutting huge into gas and space, besides the potential lack of upgrades.
And yes..space matters. I would even call for making the reactor/tech lab combination a 1x1 space object.
On July 21 2014 10:49 Loccstana wrote: Here are things which I would like to see to help late game TvP:
1) Change stim from 50% dps increase to 100% dps increase. Stim in brood war doubled marine dps and it should be that way. 2) Increase medivac heal from 9 hps to 15 hps, like that the upgrade they had in the beta.
I approve of this. Only, maybe..... make the nuke kill everything non-terran on the map? Yeah... YEAH!
On July 21 2014 10:49 Loccstana wrote: Here are things which I would like to see to help late game TvP:
1) Change stim from 50% dps increase to 100% dps increase. Stim in brood war doubled marine dps and it should be that way. 2) Increase medivac heal from 9 hps to 15 hps, like that the upgrade they had in the beta.
That'd wreck every match up. Why would you suggest such things?
Nonsense! It's actually a terran NERF. Imagine, your DPS can completely drain the medivacs near instantly and then they're useless
On July 21 2014 13:01 emidanRKO wrote:
On July 21 2014 12:45 Genome852 wrote: Wouldn't mind a tech reactors upgrade from the armory with a long ass research time and high cost. Helps with the sudden tech switches against Z and P very late game, no effect in early / mid game, doesn't change unit stats. Late game terran units will still suck but you can be more flexible.
I've thought of this as well...
merge the tech lab and reactor, and thus also make it so you can produce double of those things that needed a tech lab normally. It would basically fix all "tech change" issues terran has late game, by virtue of increasing the production (which would still need lots of money, but by this fact it can remain "balanced").
I try to minimize tech switch issues by actually having more than one or two of each type of production building.
Obviously....but producing 3-4 banshees at a time after making 3-4 starports and their respective tech labs which all cut into gas and time and space wouldn't be at the level of a zerg making a huge sudden hydra switch with infinite larva which are sitting conveniently next to their many hatches...point should be clear and that's why you don't often see someone who normally has 10+ barracks suddenly create 10+ factories or 10+ starports without cutting huge into gas and space, besides the potential lack of upgrades.
And yes..space matters. I would even call for making the reactor/tech lab combination a 1x1 space object.
If you lack upgrades, you don't have enough bases. I can typically fit 6 raxes and 6 factories in my main, along with at least 3 starports with the upgrade buildings.
Maybe Terran isn't meant for massive 100% hard counter unit switches. Maybe Terran is meant to mix and match compositions to achieve the best result with what they have on hand. I'm actually just parade-rolling zerg with T right now on KR/TW pushing forward with landed vikings, siege tanks, and marauders in front with mass marines in back. They have no anti-armored attackers, lings melt and cant surround, banes get kited around the armor units or trade really terribly against viking-tank-marauder mix. Also happens to work vs muta because vikings are good support units for ground or air. Been trying to use them more in MU's because its different from 4M or other bio, or full on thor-tank mech.
On July 21 2014 10:49 Loccstana wrote: Here are things which I would like to see to help late game TvP:
1) Change stim from 50% dps increase to 100% dps increase. Stim in brood war doubled marine dps and it should be that way. 2) Increase medivac heal from 9 hps to 15 hps, like that the upgrade they had in the beta.
That'd wreck every match up. Why would you suggest such things?
Nonsense! It's actually a terran NERF. Imagine, your DPS can completely drain the medivacs near instantly and then they're useless
On July 21 2014 13:01 emidanRKO wrote:
On July 21 2014 12:45 Genome852 wrote: Wouldn't mind a tech reactors upgrade from the armory with a long ass research time and high cost. Helps with the sudden tech switches against Z and P very late game, no effect in early / mid game, doesn't change unit stats. Late game terran units will still suck but you can be more flexible.
I've thought of this as well...
merge the tech lab and reactor, and thus also make it so you can produce double of those things that needed a tech lab normally. It would basically fix all "tech change" issues terran has late game, by virtue of increasing the production (which would still need lots of money, but by this fact it can remain "balanced").
I try to minimize tech switch issues by actually having more than one or two of each type of production building.
Obviously....but producing 3-4 banshees at a time after making 3-4 starports and their respective tech labs which all cut into gas and time and space wouldn't be at the level of a zerg making a huge sudden hydra switch with infinite larva which are sitting conveniently next to their many hatches...point should be clear and that's why you don't often see someone who normally has 10+ barracks suddenly create 10+ factories or 10+ starports without cutting huge into gas and space, besides the potential lack of upgrades.
And yes..space matters. I would even call for making the reactor/tech lab combination a 1x1 space object.
If you lack upgrades, you don't have enough bases. I can typically fit 6 raxes and 6 factories in my main, along with at least 3 starports with the upgrade buildings.
Maybe Terran isn't meant for massive 100% hard counter unit switches. Maybe Terran is meant to mix and match compositions to achieve the best result with what they have on hand. I'm actually just parade-rolling zerg with T right now on KR/TW pushing forward with landed vikings, siege tanks, and marauders in front with mass marines in back. They have no anti-armored attackers, lings melt and cant surround, banes get kited around the armor units or trade really terribly against viking-tank-marauder mix. Also happens to work vs muta because vikings are good support units for ground or air. Been trying to use them more in MU's because its different from 4M or other bio, or full on thor-tank mech.
That sounds pretty cool, you could harass overlords and clear the map for drops easily too with vikings like that. Sounds like it might have some trouble at the top level of play due to how strong mutas and mass mass banelings are, but I imagine if you can do some damage with an early hellion or hellbat push it should work out okay. I don't know if it's viable for top korean pros, but it sounds interesting at least.
Can people stop suggesting things that would make Terran wildly overpowered ? If months starved of Terran victories (which is less and less true these days, but anyway) have turned you mad into having secret fantasies of a Terran dominated scene, create a custom map with 100 HP marines who attack with friendly fire less nukes and play it with friends while screaming "TERRAAAAAN !".
On July 21 2014 09:38 Doodsmack wrote: I don't see why photon overcharge doesn't get nerfed. Toss players will claim it keeps 4 gate PvP at bay, but at this point you have to wonder whether the benefit of balancing TvP is worth the cost of more 4 gates in PvP.
It's not 4 gate that will be the problem, it's that it becomes completely impossible to ever expand. All the games will be seriously 1 base vs. 1 base and a significant number will devolve into long-distance mining from the natural because it really will be better to spend your last 400 minerals on 3 stalkers and a sentry rather than attempt to place another nexus. Players will be forced to make stupid economy decisions like deciding whether they want to stay at 22 probes on one base for maximum efficiency or go up to 30 probes in order to mine that little bit faster in exchange for wasting 400 minerals that they will never recover.
Photon Overcharge is the ONLY way to defend your main base economy from getting annihilated by Stargate units. (Oracles or Phoenixes) Stalkers only do 10 damage a shot to light air and are completely unable to prevent Phoenix harass unless you leave so many up there you can't defend your natural anymore. You would need to place 3 photon cannons to defend a mineral line from air harass, and you simply can't afford to waste that much on static defense and still expect to hold your expansion considering how warpgates destroys your defender's advantage and sentries are absolutely impossible to protect from getting wiped out by Phoenixes.
On July 22 2014 04:59 [PkF] Wire wrote: Can people stop suggesting things that would make Terran wildly overpowered ? If months starved of Terran victories (which is less and less true these days, but anyway) have turned you mad into having secret fantasies of a Terran dominated scene, create a custom map with 100 HP marines who attack with friendly fire less nukes and play it with friends while screaming "TERRAAAAAN !".
Honestly, I don't see why they couldn't try putting the medivac heal upgrade back in. Just put it on the fusion core and make it cost 200/200, that way it'll never come out until late game where it's pretty universally understood that Protoss has a huge advantage.
I don't think the medivac heal upgrade would be a problem for TvP, but I think it could make TvZ hugely imbalanced. It was gotten rid of very quickly during beta so there must have been really big problems with it.
By the way, Terran lategame army actually fights quite well with the Protoss one. Probably at a disadvantage, but far from being as huge as most people say it is. It's just that the transition to the 20ish ghosts + marauders + vikings + medivacs army with 15ish SCVs left is so long that usually the Protoss has gained too many advantages on the way for the fight to look fair.
On July 21 2014 10:49 Loccstana wrote: Here are things which I would like to see to help late game TvP:
1) Change stim from 50% dps increase to 100% dps increase. Stim in brood war doubled marine dps and it should be that way. 2) Increase medivac heal from 9 hps to 15 hps, like that the upgrade they had in the beta.
this. just one tiny little extra change: 3) stimming deals 55 damage to marines and 125 damage to marauders
EPT
