EPTBalance Test Map Update Incoming - July 15 - Page 6
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algue
France1436 Posts
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
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beg
991 Posts
On July 16 2014 04:16 Morbidius wrote: I think a simple missile turrets no longer requiring an ebay would to wonder for early game terran. that actually sounds great... cool suggestion. i dont see any real negative sides for this buff. | ||
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swag_bro
Japan782 Posts
On July 16 2014 04:45 newbornducky wrote: I think they just give up on making the mines more fun and instead just focusing on balance right now. Seriously, even though TvZ was balance before the mine nerf, the match up is completely broken (very one dimensional). Every TvZ during the period is the same; either the Terran kills the Zerg with parade push, or he doesn't and die. Also, the mines got too much bang for their bucks back in the days (and after this patch) just like the WoL infestors. The match up as a whole may be balance, but if you need something like this to hold the match up together, you know something is wrong about the Terran race. Man, looks like they have a lot to fix in LotV. Terran needs a late game buff. Not some mid game buff that can potentially lead to a weaker late game for the opponent. Terran needs some way to make the Thor viable amongst other things. I say bring buff snipe, just not as strong as back in the day. And maybe not ignore all armor, but just make it 0.5? Idk, just throwing out ideas to create a more diverse tvz. | ||
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Deonto
United States24 Posts
Also, to those who say this is too much vs toss... I completely disagree. Terran lacks good AoE against toss. It's something that terrans need against P. Regardless of it being really strong against templar focused armies in the mid game. | ||
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imJealous
United States1382 Posts
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Genome852
United States979 Posts
On July 16 2014 04:49 algue wrote: Bring back GomTvT please, I never enjoy Sc2 more than during this period 2010 - early 2012 SC2 was the best, but I think it was because the game had a much larger player / viewerbase and wasn't figured out yet. When people started splitting marines against banelings for the first time, it was mindblowing LOL. That feeling can only come from a new game... maybe SC3 in 10 years... | ||
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aero626
United States4 Posts
As for TvP mine drops should be ok as well since double forge templar openings can be defended with cannons right? Has anyone faced a two base toss fast double forge( for upgrades and cannons) twilight all in making only zealots and archons? Without obs or robo i might add, these mines will help a lot... Idk why tosses complain on the mine buff since some do dirty all ins and mines counter that or that they are forced to build some static defense to defend vs mine drops when terrans have to mandatorily make turrets to defend oracles or dts | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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purakushi
United States3301 Posts
On July 16 2014 04:59 Genome852 wrote: 2010 - early 2012 SC2 was the best, but I think it was because the game had a much larger player / viewerbase and wasn't figured out yet. When people started splitting marines against banelings for the first time, it was mindblowing LOL. That feeling can only come from a new game... maybe SC3 in 10 years... BW is older than 10 years and is still mindblowing.  | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
On July 16 2014 04:50 beg wrote: that actually sounds great... cool suggestion. i dont see any real negative sides for this buff. Protoss will flip if their build order auto-win goes away. Unscouted dt's or unexpected oracles just flat out win. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3463 Posts
2010 - early 2012 SC2 was the best, but I think it was because the game had a much larger player / viewerbase and wasn't figured out yet. When people started splitting marines against banelings for the first time, it was mindblowing LOL. That feeling can only come from a new game... Something like this will happen again in SC2 I ensure you. Happened in BW, happened in WC3. Overall am happier with where they are going with things. I hate the idea of the Widow Mine to be a Protoss hater Mine. It seems this is really needed vs Mutas and Zerg micro is something we need, to make Zergs stand out from each other. Only thing I'm a sad Zealot about is the Time Warp, it's a super nice change for nerfing all ins and I always kind of felt like it was very powerful. However I'd rather it to effect friendly units aswell or at least reduce the mana cost or something. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
On July 16 2014 05:22 ejozl wrote: Something like this will happen again in SC2 I ensure you. Happened in BW, happened in WC3. Overall am happier with where they are going with things. I hate the idea of the Widow Mine to be a Protoss hater Mine. It seems this is really needed vs Mutas and Zerg micro is something we need, to make Zergs stand out from each other. Only thing I'm a sad Zealot about is the Time Warp, it's a super nice change for nerfing all ins and I always kind of felt like it was very powerful. However I'd rather it to effect friendly units aswell or at least reduce the mana cost or something. that actually sounds great... cool suggestion. i dont see any real negative sides for this buff. I love this idea, because I believe the idea of "high infastructure costs" to counter certain openings per se makes early game more coinflippy. Like if you need to invest X amounts of money to beat build Y, but your investment is totally useless if the opponent does build Z, and you have no reliable way of knowing whether he does build Y or Z, then the game becomes more coinflippy. So IMO turrets should indeed be buildable without Ebay, but in this proces, I would argue for further adjustments as well; - Buffs to DT's - Buff to Banshee's - Nerf to turrets (perhaps with an upgrade that cancels out the nerf). Otherwise, I do think it will be too easy for terran to reflect mos harass. I still believe harass openings needs to do damage, but as long as terran has a turret, then he will be able to survive which for me is the important part. | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
On July 16 2014 04:50 beg wrote: that actually sounds great... cool suggestion. i dont see any real negative sides for this buff. It might make DTs excessively wimpy. I think a better solution would be to make turrets cheaper and maybe like 5 seconds quicker to build, so that they make for an easier emergency reaction, and also serve as better defenders vs Mutas. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3463 Posts
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
they do not make for exciting or interesting games, they only produce bland parade pushes, blind forward aggression, since one widow mine connection generally pays for the mine and if it fires more than once the terran player made a massive gain on the resource investment. Adding power and focus to a unit which often goes uncontrolled and automated from players seems wrong to me. I think all AOE in the game needs nerf, so that people can actually micro their units rather than just amove blobs of exploding acid lasers into each other. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
exploding acid lasers sound so badass | ||
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
On July 16 2014 05:38 darkscream wrote: widow mine unnerf do not want they do not make for exciting or interesting games, they only produce bland parade pushes, blind forward aggression, since one widow mine connection generally pays for the mine and if it fires more than once the terran player made a massive gain on the resource investment. Adding power and focus to a unit which often goes uncontrolled and automated from players seems wrong to me. I think all AOE in the game needs nerf, so that people can actually micro their units rather than just amove blobs of exploding acid lasers into each other. Consider reading DWF's article because he basically clears out a lot of the nonsense coming from ignorant people who neither understands how the micro-requirements of the Mine nor the TvZ meta prior to the Widow Mine nerf. Bascially, everything in your post is either wrong or extremely exaggerated. If you don't like the Widow Mine becasue it punishes mistake quite harshly, that's a valid opinion, however your opinion isn't based on how it actually works at all. | ||
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RoninColt
United States18 Posts
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NHY
1013 Posts
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