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On February 16 2014 00:37 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 00:11 coloursheep wrote:On February 16 2014 00:03 Lurtzer wrote:On February 15 2014 22:39 ImperialFist wrote:
funny how mc has done this twice in order to try to make money and some people actually treat him seriously. My thoughts exactly. How is MC making money from expressing his opinion? Because most tournament don't prioritize player's raw skills over huge personality draws (especially foreign events). MC, although skillful at the game isn't exactly someone who is "S-class". So being controversial only adds to his "personality-traits" or w/e the average poster here defines it.
that's the dumbest thing i've read in a very long time. so MC's plan is to express his opinion about the maps, draw a bunch of attention so he can get invited to tournaments that way since he isn't good enough at the game and place highly enough that he gets paid. how? how's he gonna beat the what you call "s-class" players to reach a paid spot if he isn't good enough to be invited in the first place and he only got there because controversy? MC with the next level tactics, someone tell him he won't get paid just for participating in a tourney and he can't beat "s-class" players with internet posts.
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On February 16 2014 00:54 Kabras wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 00:37 Xiphos wrote:On February 16 2014 00:11 coloursheep wrote:On February 16 2014 00:03 Lurtzer wrote:On February 15 2014 22:39 ImperialFist wrote:
funny how mc has done this twice in order to try to make money and some people actually treat him seriously. My thoughts exactly. How is MC making money from expressing his opinion? Because most tournament don't prioritize player's raw skills over huge personality draws (especially foreign events). MC, although skillful at the game isn't exactly someone who is "S-class". So being controversial only adds to his "personality-traits" or w/e the average poster here defines it. that's the dumbest thing i've read in a very long time. so MC's plan is to express his opinion about the maps, draw a bunch of attention so he can get invited to tournaments that way since he isn't good enough at the game and place highly enough that he gets paid. how? how's he gonna beat the what you call "s-class" players to reach a paid spot if he isn't good enough to be invited in the first place and he only got there because controversy? MC with the next level tactics, someone tell him he won't get paid just for participating in a tourney and he can't beat "s-class" players with internet posts.
Its not stupid and there have been other players doing the same thing, except typically it's the foreign players not the Korean ones. Think IdrA or basically any other EG player. They continuously decline in skills and results but remain in the scene because of fan bases, promotions, being vocal in the community, etc. Incontrol was like 0-50 in tournaments and still being invited and "placing" at MLGs and such.
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On February 15 2014 23:28 Dwayn wrote:
MC is wrong, it's not just the map and PvZ is not 50/50. Not too surprising that he would be biased.
Data gogogo... pretty sure the stats show around 50/50 all across the board.
Not too surprising that you would be biased though 
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Just a few bad apples maps defense?
I kinda expected more from MC.
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On February 16 2014 01:10 pmp10 wrote:
Just a few bad apples maps defense?
I kinda expected more from MC.
He just won his 1st tournament in years, what did you expect?
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On February 16 2014 00:57 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 00:54 Kabras wrote:On February 16 2014 00:37 Xiphos wrote:On February 16 2014 00:11 coloursheep wrote:On February 16 2014 00:03 Lurtzer wrote:On February 15 2014 22:39 ImperialFist wrote:
funny how mc has done this twice in order to try to make money and some people actually treat him seriously. My thoughts exactly. How is MC making money from expressing his opinion? Because most tournament don't prioritize player's raw skills over huge personality draws (especially foreign events). MC, although skillful at the game isn't exactly someone who is "S-class". So being controversial only adds to his "personality-traits" or w/e the average poster here defines it. that's the dumbest thing i've read in a very long time. so MC's plan is to express his opinion about the maps, draw a bunch of attention so he can get invited to tournaments that way since he isn't good enough at the game and place highly enough that he gets paid. how? how's he gonna beat the what you call "s-class" players to reach a paid spot if he isn't good enough to be invited in the first place and he only got there because controversy? MC with the next level tactics, someone tell him he won't get paid just for participating in a tourney and he can't beat "s-class" players with internet posts. Its not stupid and there have been other players doing the same thing, except typically it's the foreign players not the Korean ones. Think IdrA or basically any other EG player. They continuously decline in skills and results but remain in the scene because of fan bases, promotions, being vocal in the community, etc. Incontrol was like 0-50 in tournaments and still being invited and "placing" at MLGs and such.
Except he is already the highest sc2 earner and still places well in tournament. I don't think he needs to be controversial. He wanted to be controversial, he could say that map are fine and Terrans just have no skills.
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MC was the only Toss winning anything in 2011 when Terran was massively overpowered. He didn't complain. He said he liked the difficult situation because it gave him the chance to prove how great he was. People should not just dismiss him as biased. I would love to hear Mvp's opinions on balance. He's old school awesome like MC, and they are best friends.
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On February 16 2014 00:37 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 00:11 coloursheep wrote:On February 16 2014 00:03 Lurtzer wrote:On February 15 2014 22:39 ImperialFist wrote:
funny how mc has done this twice in order to try to make money and some people actually treat him seriously. My thoughts exactly. How is MC making money from expressing his opinion? Because most tournament don't prioritize player's raw skills over huge personality draws (especially foreign events). MC, although skillful at the game isn't exactly someone who is "S-class". So being controversial only adds to his "personality-traits" or w/e the average poster here defines it.
the one who is making it controversial is you.
there is nothing wrong about a pro speaking out his mind, it's not like he does it avilo style either.
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On February 16 2014 01:18 Salient wrote:
MC was the only Toss winning anything in 2011 when Terran was massively overpowered. He didn't complain. He said he liked the difficult situation because it gave him the chance to prove how great he was. People should not just dismiss him as biased. I would love to hear Mvp's opinions on balance. He's old school awesome like MC, and they are best friends.
They are not best friends but pretty close as a progamer.
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On February 15 2014 21:27 myRZeth wrote:
I couldn t agree more with MC.
I m ashamed of Zerg players. They re jump into the Protoss OP circlejerk is disgusting.
I think the next season should have their maps tested before being put in to the livegame.
I don't think there are many Zerg who actually consider ZvP imbalanced. It's just that Zerg is forced to play the idiotic Swarmhost-Turtling-Style, because everything else doesn't really work anymore.
So: Yes, it's 50/50, but it sucks really hard and everyone would like to see more possibilities in the matchup, especially against Skytoss.
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On February 16 2014 01:33 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 21:27 myRZeth wrote:
I couldn t agree more with MC.
I m ashamed of Zerg players. They re jump into the Protoss OP circlejerk is disgusting.
I think the next season should have their maps tested before being put in to the livegame. I don't think there are many Zerg who actually consider ZvP imbalanced. It's just that Zerg is forced to play the idiotic Swarmhost-Turtling-Style, because everything else doesn't really work anymore. So: Yes, it's 50/50, but it sucks really hard and everyone would like to see more possibilities in the matchup, especially against Skytoss.
Ling/Hydra/Viper plus queens and a few infestors. (See, e.g. Life vs. Naniwa at IEM New York).
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MC makes good points but should all maps be changed just so some "overpowered" strategies are unviable? It's really a tossup for me.
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when the President speaks only fools do not listen
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On February 16 2014 01:37 Salient wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 01:33 Swisslink wrote:On February 15 2014 21:27 myRZeth wrote:
I couldn t agree more with MC.
I m ashamed of Zerg players. They re jump into the Protoss OP circlejerk is disgusting.
I think the next season should have their maps tested before being put in to the livegame. I don't think there are many Zerg who actually consider ZvP imbalanced. It's just that Zerg is forced to play the idiotic Swarmhost-Turtling-Style, because everything else doesn't really work anymore. So: Yes, it's 50/50, but it sucks really hard and everyone would like to see more possibilities in the matchup, especially against Skytoss. Ling/Hydra/Viper plus queens and a few infestors. (See, e.g. Life vs. Naniwa at IEM New York).
Nothing Zerg beats collosus voidray with tenplar support except mass static + free units.
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On February 15 2014 23:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:MC = BossToss = LogicToss? I like that. He's definitely making some really good points. Nowadays, any time any Protoss player wins it's "due to Protoss" rather than "due to skill". Sigh. Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 22:25 Nebuchad wrote:
You can agree or disagree with the map assessment, but the way community treats players is fucking awful, and I don't see how you can deny that. Absolutely agree.
I personally also hate it when the race is overpowered and suddenly everyone playing that race is simply an evil asshole who wants easy wins and is bad at playing video games. Look at shit posts like this:
On February 15 2014 23:42 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 22:25 Nebuchad wrote:
You can agree or disagree with the map assessment, but the way community treats players is fucking awful, and I don't see how you can deny that. Oh woe is me, the Protoss. What a loss it is I feel, When I think DK will steal - My wins earned like a boss. Note: Protoss players in TL, get over yourself. You are not MC, balance at your level isn't what most reasonable people are complaining about. You want to act like all balance criticism is an attack because of a few assholes? Well, aren't you so wonderful...
I despise such attitude the most : "I'm playing the underpowered race, therefore I have the right to act all high and mighty since I'm clearly more skilful than thou." Protoss players don't get to respond, or they're called out even more for daring to speak up in a climate where the race is strong. You can say that you are doing "balance criticism", but really, when it frequently contains words and phrases that continually antagonize the players and even degrade the pro players, what the fuck are you trying to get at? This is an internet forum, and you expect the people to sit back and just take the attacks and agree to all the "easy race" calls. Sure.
I think MC is right about the maps being the problem, and I've thought so for quite a while. I've also always agreed with MsC providing far too much a safety net to protoss, and MsC is indeed the ultimate bandaid. It even looks like a bandaid. However, balance problems are NOT a reason to antagonize 1/3 of an internet forum.
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I wish we had like 12-15 maps from which to choose. If blizzard adds a few more map vetos, then everyone will be happy.
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Going into what MC said;
We have 7 reasonably different maps in the pool, of which 2 are even and 5 are 'imbalanced'.
Shouldn't we still be looking at fixing TvP on these 'imba' maps, because Protoss limits map design so much in SC2? This is a question I want to put to discussion, not an opinion.
Examples:
FFE, defendable third, small main-blink in area, main not too open to air, maps not too large, compact naturals, etcetera.
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On February 16 2014 00:40 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 00:37 Xiphos wrote:On February 16 2014 00:11 coloursheep wrote:On February 16 2014 00:03 Lurtzer wrote:On February 15 2014 22:39 ImperialFist wrote:
funny how mc has done this twice in order to try to make money and some people actually treat him seriously. My thoughts exactly. How is MC making money from expressing his opinion? Because most tournament don't prioritize player's raw skills over huge personality draws (especially foreign events). MC, although skillful at the game isn't exactly someone who is "S-class". So being controversial only adds to his "personality-traits" or w/e the average poster here defines it. Is this a bad thing? Personality is what makes these events interesting not some X player that was able to do his timing perfectly. It's cool in the beginning, but then it gets boring. Take personality expressions as a breath of fresh air. This doesn't mean someone being rude every time is justified though. There's more to that.
Financially speaking, yes.
In the spirit of the competition, no.
I don't know about you or anyone else but I want the highest form of competition in any tournaments that call themselves "premier". That's the definition of sport.
On February 16 2014 01:23 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 00:37 Xiphos wrote:On February 16 2014 00:11 coloursheep wrote:On February 16 2014 00:03 Lurtzer wrote:On February 15 2014 22:39 ImperialFist wrote:
funny how mc has done this twice in order to try to make money and some people actually treat him seriously. My thoughts exactly. How is MC making money from expressing his opinion? Because most tournament don't prioritize player's raw skills over huge personality draws (especially foreign events). MC, although skillful at the game isn't exactly someone who is "S-class". So being controversial only adds to his "personality-traits" or w/e the average poster here defines it. the one who is making it controversial is you. there is nothing wrong about a pro speaking out his mind, it's not like he does it avilo style either.
Never did I say anything wrong about it. But there is ALWAYS ulterior motives to anything.
On February 16 2014 00:54 Kabras wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 00:37 Xiphos wrote:On February 16 2014 00:11 coloursheep wrote:On February 16 2014 00:03 Lurtzer wrote:On February 15 2014 22:39 ImperialFist wrote:
funny how mc has done this twice in order to try to make money and some people actually treat him seriously. My thoughts exactly. How is MC making money from expressing his opinion? Because most tournament don't prioritize player's raw skills over huge personality draws (especially foreign events). MC, although skillful at the game isn't exactly someone who is "S-class". So being controversial only adds to his "personality-traits" or w/e the average poster here defines it. that's the dumbest thing i've read in a very long time. so MC's plan is to express his opinion about the maps, draw a bunch of attention so he can get invited to tournaments that way since he isn't good enough at the game and place highly enough that he gets paid. how? how's he gonna beat the what you call "s-class" players to reach a paid spot if he isn't good enough to be invited in the first place and he only got there because controversy? MC with the next level tactics, someone tell him he won't get paid just for participating in a tourney and he can't beat "s-class" players with internet posts.
^And sorry can't respond to this paragraph w/ such bad punctuation.
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On February 16 2014 01:45 zelevin wrote:
I wish we had like 12-15 maps from which to choose. If blizzard adds a few more map vetos, then everyone will be happy.
15 is way too much. 9 is a maximum for me. You'll never learn to play on a huge mapcount nor eill it be possible to change it around fast.
7 is fine too imo, as long as they're fine maps.
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I don't like how awful the balance whiners are, but MC is missing the other crucial point for PvT. MC is a very aggressive player, so of course, he will talk more about the blink all-ins. The other problem is the late game PvT, where Protosses are slightly more favored with a stronger composition. Of course, if Terran players have better control, they still will have a chance. However, it's just that difficult for Terran players to beat Protoss in every stage of the game (even mid-game is not easy, because Protoss have photon overcharge).
Source: You can watch the Flash vs Sora game, where Flash gained a lot of momentum with his macro and aggression but lost his entire army that was trapped and flanked with storms.
Right now, Blizzard is making the right moves with the Ghost buff. Hopefully, we will see some diversity in PvT, which is why I welcome the Widow Mine buff.
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EPT
