EPTYes, things CAN be balanced via maps, but it also limits a lot of maps. Sure, Frost might be ok, but do we went to play on Frost clones?
MC's thoughts on current balance whining - Page 2
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
Yes, things CAN be balanced via maps, but it also limits a lot of maps. Sure, Frost might be ok, but do we went to play on Frost clones? | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
Basically its something you could potentially try to patch with maps, but not really worth it. I don't understand why protoss players are so devastated by the idea of a blink nerf anyway, the race is so over represented everywhere that clearly something needs to be done. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On February 15 2014 22:25 Nebuchad wrote: You can agree or disagree with the map assessment, but the way community treats players is fucking awful, and I don't see how you can deny that. Well, this has always happened and not just to Protoss. Early on, 'cheesy' players got hate, and then Terrans for a bit, and then the patch Zerg era. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12161 Posts
On February 15 2014 22:27 Bagi wrote: With how strong blink is in its current form, the only way to balance TvP through maps would be to make every main base surrounded by air space, which is a HUGE limitation to mapmaking. You could have a double cliff on most of the surface except for one or two spots. Still lets reapers go in easily and limits the blink options to specific spots in the base. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12161 Posts
On February 15 2014 22:28 vthree wrote: Well, this has always happened and not just to Protoss. Early on, 'cheesy' players got hate, and then Terrans for a bit, and then the patch Zerg era. And I say the same thing to the people who shit on Sniper or Jonnyrecco. | ||
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
On February 15 2014 22:30 TheDwf wrote: Exactly why are people pretending Blink is the only issue with TvP currently? tip of the iceberg? | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On February 15 2014 22:31 Nebuchad wrote: And I say the same thing to the people who shit on Sniper or Jonnyrecco. Yes, I am not condoning it. I am just saying it has been around for a long time and isn't likely to go away. | ||
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ImperialFist
790 Posts
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On February 15 2014 22:29 Nebuchad wrote: You could have a double cliff on most of the surface except for one or two spots. Still lets reapers go in easily and limits the blink options to specific spots in the base. I don't really understand this post, since when does double cliff stop blink stalkers? | ||
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Tsubbi
Germany7979 Posts
also while zvp is certainly not as bad as tvp i think theres a reason why in 2013 of the 13 wcs titles theres been only one zerg champion, also currently there wouldve been 20 protoss in code s if there hadnt been so many deadalus freewins | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On February 15 2014 22:30 TheDwf wrote: Exactly why are people pretending Blink is the only issue with TvP currently? Because blink is such a dominant strategy now, that all early game is based off that. And early game just snowballs to mid and then late game. So we need to 'fix' the blink all and then we can see the affects and evaluate. It is like the 1-1-1, 11-11 pre bunker barracks nerf. Need to fix those first before we can see the issues in the mid and late game. | ||
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ImperialFist
790 Posts
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goody153
44111 Posts
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bearhug
United States999 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
MC talks about 5maps from the current pool that favor Protoss due to two different problems Daedalus, Heavy Rain, Yeonsu, Polar Night - blink play Alterzim - too big. Now Alterzim is probably a problem map, its size is experimentally big, its not a standard feature and if it proves to be imbalanced it is easy to avoid making such maps, just like we have done in the years past with like 1exception. But what about the other 4? They have standard features that are suddenly considered imbalanced - after changes to the units, not to the maps! If our new standard should be to avoid maps with those standard features, then there also cannot be another Cloud Kingdom, Bel'Shire Beach, Antiga Shipyard, Shakuras Plateau, Derelicted Watcher (...), because those maps have the same with the "new balance" problematic feature (a blinkabuseable ledge). Hell, Akilon and Ohana are problematic for blink rushes with this standard... TLDR: If 50% of all maps that have ever been played are considered broken because of balance changes, then we should not consider the maps problematic but the balance changes. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Any thing they do seems utterly devastating for Terran, it can't be just the threat of one powerful build like Blink stalkers. Edit: I agree that it's a good thing to try the fix the most problematic shit first, and that's probably blink stalkers right now, but "map balancing" doesn't solve everything. Sometimes, units are too strong, like the MSC. | ||
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Pangpootata
1838 Posts
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goody153
44111 Posts
On February 15 2014 22:45 ZenithM wrote: I'm not convinced that the only issues lie in maps, tbh. Protoss seems really sooo heavily favored that it can't be just that... Any thing they do seems utterly devastating for Terran, it can't be just the threat of one powerful build like Blink stalkers. Edit: I agree that it's a good thing to try the fix the most problematic shit first, and that's probably blink stalkers right now, but "map balancing" doesn't solve everything. Sometimes, units are too strong, like the MSC. Yeah . I would just love to see terran having an option to scout better against toss and/or give them something to punish a toss for being too greedy. Like how toss has a option to punish terran. Just my assumption though. I hope the Ghost Buff, vision nerf, timewarp nerf really fixes tvp. I hope so. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12161 Posts
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