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helius788
New Zealand74 Posts
TvP was already so fcking painful to play (1 millions ways of Allins are possible and an incredible hard late game). And now even TvZ is just ridiculous. Maybe if only 20% of Terrans are left playing this game, they start to think about buffing the ghost and nerfing the MSC or something... So sad! | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 13 2013 03:16 helius788 wrote: Hmm, as a Terran player I now know I'm done here. TvP was already so fcking painful to play (1 millions ways of Allins are possible and an incredible hard late game). And now even TvZ is just ridiculous. Maybe if only 20% of Terrans are left playing this game, they start to think about buffing the ghost and nerfing the MSC or something... So sad! How many games have you played post-patch, and what league do you play in? My personal guesses are 0 and platinum | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1162 Posts
On November 13 2013 02:54 Zealously wrote: Hey person, maybe wait and see how the actual good players handle it before wishing death upon people? A little bit of maturity will take you a long way sometimes. thanks for the advice. | ||
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PPN
France248 Posts
On November 13 2013 02:34 Pirfiktshon wrote: See how many marines you can get out with a normal 1 Rax Reactor Reaper Expand which is supposedly safer way to expand with a proxy oracle hitting your base at 5:08-5:10 then come back and talk. Don't exagerate. Fastest proxy oracle is Mana's. It's an all-in. Oracle comes out at 5:10 but actually hits your mineral line around 5:20-25 depending on maps. Does it make any difference that it hits 3 seconds earlier? I don't see how speed and acceleration matter much either in all-in since Oracles are exposed anyway when they attack because of range. The only difference I see right now is that Protoss may be more inclined to keep them alive for scouting/detection/revelation purpose instead of sacrificing them on scv/marines when going Stargate first because he knows he can outrun his counters. | ||
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FlowerBunny
Sweden187 Posts
On November 13 2013 03:18 Zealously wrote: How many games have you played post-patch, and what league do you play in? My personal guesses are 0 and platinum I am a GM terran on EU and I feel the exact same way, and I can almost promise you a lot of good Terrans are cringing about these patch notes. I think active Terran players will drop to around 20% in a month or two :/ | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
On November 13 2013 03:12 Whitewing wrote: Everyone complaining about the tank change not being good enough doesn't understand how army dynamics work. Tanks fire .2 seconds faster, which means they get their kills .2 seconds faster after their initial volley. This means .2 seconds where your other units aren't shooting the units the tanks killed, and .2 seconds where those units aren't contributing to the enemy army's overall damage output. That's .2 seconds of attacks the enemy units don't get to make. Then the next volley comes .2 seconds faster, so that's .4 seconds those units miss out on doing DPS compared to how it used to be. It adds up pretty quickly. It's the principle behind 2 zealots beating 6 zerglings, but 8 zealots absolutely slaughter 6 zerglings with no noticeable damage suffered. The faster your army deals damage, the less damage your army takes and the more you have left over after the battle. Tanks firing faster means their damage is dealt faster, which means enemy units have less time to do damage back to you. For me its not about the tank being good enough or not its about the Tank being Shoved into the army whether you like it or not. Which me personally I hate using tanks now and I hated using tanks since the start of SC2. Especially because in about a week from now they are going to nerf that and leave the widow mine the way it is. Its just how this crap always works....... | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1162 Posts
On November 13 2013 03:18 Zealously wrote: How many games have you played post-patch, and what league do you play in? My personal guesses are 0 and platinum Downfall and Avilo are grandmasters and they have pretty much the same view of TvP. go ask Bomber what he thinks of the MSC | ||
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Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 13 2013 03:20 sGDaevil wrote: I am a GM terran on EU and I feel the exact same way, and I can almost promise you a lot of good Terrans are cringing about these patch notes. I think active Terran players will drop to around 20% in a month or two :/ The first question still stands, however. I know how the numbers look, but numbers don't mean anything if it turns out that this works anyway. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On November 13 2013 03:24 SHODAN wrote: Downfall and Avilo are grandmasters and they have pretty much the same view of TvP. go ask Bomber what he thinks of the MSC To be fair, Avilo is a good player but he's Doom n Gloom like, all the time. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 13 2013 03:20 sGDaevil wrote: I am a GM terran on EU and I feel the exact same way, and I can almost promise you a lot of good Terrans are cringing about these patch notes. I think active Terran players will drop to around 20% in a month or two :/ Is that 20% of the total population or 20% of the 15% that Terran keep claiming are on the ladder? Or are all these number made up because everyone is high on drama today.? | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On November 13 2013 03:16 helius788 wrote: Hmm, as a Terran player I now know I'm done here. TvP was already so fcking painful to play (1 millions ways of Allins are possible and an incredible hard late game). And now even TvZ is just ridiculous. Maybe if only 20% of Terrans are left playing this game, they start to think about buffing the ghost and nerfing the MSC or something... So sad! it's already close to 20% lol. | ||
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Salient
United States876 Posts
On November 13 2013 03:20 sGDaevil wrote: I am a GM terran on EU and I feel the exact same way, and I can almost promise you a lot of good Terrans are cringing about these patch notes. I think active Terran players will drop to around 20% in a month or two :/ Really? Maybe try to find new opportunities using the Terran buffs instead of prejudging the patch. Mines were silly against zerg. And the oracle is still a fragile gas intensive thing that can be zoned out with static defense. The combined upgrades for Terran is a really nice buff. | ||
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bhfberserk
Canada390 Posts
Tanks feel much more powerful in low numbers now. In early games, seems like a classic 3 tanks push is possible in TvZ. The tanks reloads much faster and can shoot down the lings much better. Mech in TvZ feels really strong. If you go classic Hellion Banshee. By the time you do your pre-hive push, you will also have 2/2 banshees. This add a lot of fire power into your composition. Tanks also feels much more reliable now. It feels much stronger against mass lings running into your siege lines. In TvP. Maruader Hellbat Viking seems like something to be worth trying. Maybe we can bring back good old 2/2/2 Marine Thor Banshee since the shared upgrade. With Blizzard promising mech to be viable in TvP in the future. I think this is a really positive patch. I was getting sick of seeing MMMVG in every single TvP. Maybe now there is a bit more variations to explore. | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
Oh hush there Maybe it isn't as bad as you think you poor thing. When we are saying yes it is bad and this isn't a small adjustment this is a HUGE adjustment and will make it so Terran players have to make HUGE investments in time to figuring out optimal build orders different timing pushes now. I mean its not just relearning how to open but also how to engage the new Power-Muta play. IN all honesty to be able to move out we now have ot cover every base with about 7-10 Turrets just to give our AA time to get there to defend when you micro muta back and forth and just regen the damage done by turrets LOL Edit:We are still pretending like Vipers don't exist as well in the Buff tank world you guys are living in. I don't know if you have ever played Catz with this Burrow Roach build but its nothing to blink your eyes at. With Tanks faster shots its good but lets not pretend there isn't HUGE counters to this type of play available early on when the first push would start to gear up to move out.............. | ||
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VArsovskiSC
Macedonia563 Posts
On November 13 2013 03:12 Whitewing wrote: Everyone complaining about the tank change not being good enough doesn't understand how army dynamics work. Tanks fire .2 seconds faster, which means they get their kills .2 seconds faster after their initial volley. This means .2 seconds where your other units aren't shooting the units the tanks killed, and .2 seconds where those units aren't contributing to the enemy army's overall damage output. That's .2 seconds of attacks the enemy units don't get to make. Then the next volley comes .2 seconds faster, so that's .4 seconds those units miss out on doing DPS compared to how it used to be. It adds up pretty quickly. It's the principle behind 2 zealots beating 6 zerglings, but 8 zealots absolutely slaughter 6 zerglings with no noticeable damage suffered. The faster your army deals damage, the less damage your army takes and the more you have left over after the battle. Tanks firing faster means their damage is dealt faster, which means enemy units have less time to do damage back to you. GL shielding your Tanks against Chargelots with Mines and Hellbats and Thors while these shooting .2 sec. faster.. IMO though to make any mech work, or at least mech-to-bio or bio-to-mech transitions work - the KEY unit is/(has to be) the Widow-Mine.. The splash nerf was needed vs Zerg, still - the unit can be buffed in a bunch of other ways to make smooth bio/mech transitions work.. 1 way: WM takes 1 supply 2 way: WM shots are splitted on 2 shots - i.e. - 2 rockets that come 2-3 seconds one after another, each with half-the-splash area the mine overall has.. That way mines won't kill more Zerg, but will kill double the Protoss supply (2 primary targets instead of 1).. Or if the 2 rockets overlap, then double the damage over those units that WM volley.. Will also increase the skill-requirements from the opponent, if he can get rid off the mines quick, then he won't be double-shot 3 way: same as 2nd way, but only after Drilling Claws upgrade A bunch of other ways to make Mech work: 4 way: remove Transformation Servos upgrade.. Hellbats will require only Armory and can transform in Hellbat/Hellion form back-and-forth any time you want without the need of a Techlab-Factory 5 way - move the Transformation Servos upg to Armory instead (or even better - move it to Engi-bay), again - same reasoning --> no Fact-Lab will be required 6 way: Make Reapers and BCs resistant to spell-damage (i.e. - take only 50% damage from spells), that way we might see some BCs or Reapers even in late-game, cause those will take half-the damage from Feedback or Fungal or Storm 7th way is to buff the Siege-Tank = something Blizz already does, only they did too "slight" of a change.. should've kept 2.7 I think.. Though I wouldn't mind if they even tried with sth as 2.5 or 2.6 instead.. 8th - Another way is to buff the Siege-Tank siege-range (up to 14 or even up to 15 instead) The reason I don't quite like the Upgrade-based buffs though is cause those are extremely-late-game-oriented IMO ================================================================ Problem might be that Marines might/should get a nerf after any of those though.. And THAT might as well be something that DK doesn't want.. But if you ask me - EVEN THAT is welcomed.. Though TvT might become Tank-wars once again, not sure if that's a bad thing after all.. I personally am sick & tired of Marine-fest in all the Terran matchups TBH.. | ||
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jotmang
Korea (South)16 Posts
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DinosaurPoop
687 Posts
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On November 13 2013 03:49 DinosaurPoop wrote: Well I guess with all these arguments the best we could do is wait and see, koreans are pretty good at finding optimal strats very quickly while the foreigners whine And we have a winner! | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 13 2013 03:49 DinosaurPoop wrote: Well I guess with all these arguments the best we could do is wait and see, koreans are pretty good at finding optimal strats very quickly while the foreigners whine Polt will find a way. He always does and it's epic. | ||
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