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On November 12 2013 22:08 fried_rice wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 22:05 Tif wrote:On November 12 2013 21:04 fried_rice wrote:On November 12 2013 20:46 Tif wrote:On November 12 2013 20:31 keglu wrote:
If it's queen patch for TvZ all over again i will laugh so hard. I also hope that TvZ meta won't change into mech/air turtling. We don't need another deathbally matchup. I´m also think that the current patches could lead into quiet boring turtle mech into mass bc/Ravens what would be realy horrible. How ever, the WM nerf was mor than needed and finaly they gave roaches the borrow speed back (I neverunderstood why they nerfd it in WOL better at the first place. How ever, I would still like have a option beside Mutaplay against Marine Madic Mine play. Since the Medivac boost is in the game drops so f**** mobile and cost efficent. I dont see how Zerg is supoosed to hold that of without Mutas. I also would like a unit which is able to shut down bio play and force Terran in to a dif. unit mix (it used to be the Infestor). Right now Terran can play Marine + Madic + X in nearly any MU against nearly any composition, that just not how a strategy game shuold be. Maybe the WM nerf already helped in that why. Maiby this is something we will get in Void. We will see. Defensive/turtle mech play being the best option in TvZ is not the Terran's or the patch's fault, it's the fault of the poorly designed swarm host supported by mass static defense (which IMO should cost supply for zerg, since it's not "static" at all) backed up by Vipers, and this is an uphill battle for battle and outright unbeatable if played correctly. As long as this is possible Terran will never be able to be really active out on the map with a mech-based army, a redesign of SHs and a nerf/change to Blinding Cloud (things that are not used at all in standard ZvT) would suddenly breath a lot of new life to the matchup. I dont get what u trying to say. The time when SH are working against terran is when Terran is going mech. And that part of why Mech play is so boring. I havent seen any SH bouild work ever against bio since the med boost is in the game (belife me I tried). If there are any games. If I´m wrong with that, plz. prove me by showing me VOD´s/Replays of Highskilled Zerg winning against Bio with SH. Thx. Wat? I don't think you get my post... What I'm trying to say is that Swarm Hosts are the reason ZvT mech can became a turtle fest for both sides, this has nothing to do with bio.
Ah now i get your post, thx for clarification. I also don´t see how turtle mech is beatable withouth SH turtel into tech switches. Maybe this problem can be handeld by a different map designe.
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Fix the tracking-turret on tanks and I will be happy.
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The number of complains after that the patch is live for what ? One day ? Is astonishing.
I feel like this thread should only be open to posting after a few weeks of the patch being live. It's always the same thing. There is 200 pages the first two days and then nothing in the following month (or... fewer posts). I feel like the posts that comes 3weeks after the patch are more important that the following days. But maybe i'm wrong i don't know.
I hope that this works out. I play Terran (ex Zerg) and i really wonder how this will pan out in the future.
Can i know the fastest timing of an oracle ? (i know it depends on the map) but maybe on Akilon ? is it really faster for it to get to your base ?
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With the direction of SC2 going I don't like it anymore.
Been playing Terran in BW since 2005, switched to SC2 in 2010 and have been in Masters every season. I didn't play to become a Pro - just playing for fun of the game.
Now they removed the fun of playing for me. Getting cheesed in Masters by 7/10 Protoss. Losing the lategame 2/3 from the others and only winning the last one because of Protoss making a BIG mistake during fights.
But it's not only TvP.
Lack of Strategy in every MU except TvT. Being forced to play the same style every and every game. In BW there were so many options to open. In SC2 at the beginning there were also some more options. Nowadays they're gone.
And the worst thing is, DK and the balance team don't care.
I almost never played Mech in SC2, but they promised to make it viable for the last THREE years. They only announce it because they don't want to lose casual Mech players.
DK doesn't really care about the community. He is getting paid no matter where SC2 goes. In my opinion SC2 is becoming more and more of a cash cow and when it's done they develop the next game.
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On November 12 2013 19:38 Assirra wrote:
People complaining some changes were too small but how many times seaminlgy small changes made a huge impact?
Lets at least wait a month or 2 before we complain about a change being too small.
this. The queen range buff completely changed the matchups. I'd rather have patches that are too small compared to patches that are too drastic. we'll see what happens.
And if you don't like it, figure out a new composition. It's not like 90% of you guys is in GM.
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United Kingdom12033 Posts
On November 12 2013 22:29 FFW_Rude wrote:
The number of complains after that the patch is live for what ? One day ? Is astonishing.
I feel like this thread should only be open to posting after a few weeks of the patch being live. It's always the same thing. There is 200 pages the first two days and then nothing in the following month (or... fewer posts). I feel like the posts that comes 3weeks after the patch are more important that the following days. But maybe i'm wrong i don't know.
I hope that this works out. I play Terran (ex Zerg) and i really wonder how this will pan out in the future.
Can i know the fastest timing of an oracle ? (i know it depends on the map) but maybe on Akilon ? is it really faster for it to get to your base ?
It's always like this 
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too many people crying here before even playing the patch.
I play terran and i like tanks. This is great, a step in the right direction for mech. A small step, but a step.
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The reason I played bio mine when I was terran is because otherwise its very hard to deal with mutas, thors are super slow and tank heavy comps makes armies reasonably weaker against muta compositions. Constant aggression and multipronged drops was also the best way to avoid snorefest swarmhost turtles. I expect terrans will find it harder to control creep and will have worse map control. Bio mine was also strong because it wasn't 'all in' in the sense that if you got overrun pushing out you could boost away the bio with mines being reasonably cost effective. With tanks if you get overrun you lose them all so its harder to be as active on the map. My first impression is its a reasonably large nerf to terran. I hope ZvT stays balanced.
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On November 12 2013 22:37 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 22:29 FFW_Rude wrote:
The number of complains after that the patch is live for what ? One day ? Is astonishing.
I feel like this thread should only be open to posting after a few weeks of the patch being live. It's always the same thing. There is 200 pages the first two days and then nothing in the following month (or... fewer posts). I feel like the posts that comes 3weeks after the patch are more important that the following days. But maybe i'm wrong i don't know.
I hope that this works out. I play Terran (ex Zerg) and i really wonder how this will pan out in the future.
Can i know the fastest timing of an oracle ? (i know it depends on the map) but maybe on Akilon ? is it really faster for it to get to your base ? It's always like this
I know but... i have a dream....
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Oracle change (the speed change, not the acceleration one) was pretty much disapproved throughout the phase test, so with that going through you could expect people to get mad. As if early game wasn't already hard enough for the Terran in TvP...
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On November 12 2013 22:30 TurboMaN wrote:
With the direction of SC2 going I don't like it anymore.
Been playing Terran in BW since 2005, switched to SC2 in 2010 and have been in Masters every season. I didn't play to become a Pro - just playing for fun of the game.
Now they removed the fun of playing for me. Getting cheesed in Masters by 7/10 Protoss. Losing the lategame 2/3 from the others and only winning the last one because of Protoss making a BIG mistake during fights.
But it's not only TvP.
Lack of Strategy in every MU except TvT. Being forced to play the same style every and every game. In BW there were so many options to open. In SC2 at the beginning there were also some more options. Nowadays they're gone.
And the worst thing is, DK and the balance team don't care.
I almost never played Mech in SC2, but they promised to make it viable for the last THREE years. They only announce it because they don't want to lose casual Mech players.
DK doesn't really care about the community. He is getting paid no matter where SC2 goes. In my opinion SC2 is becoming more and more of a cash cow and when it's done they develop the next game.
I'm in the same boat. BW Terran and SC2 Terran (Masters every season).
Getting more and more disappointed every season.
The balance team does too many "balancing" and not enough "let players figure it out".
Trying to cater "balance" in the lower leagues is really ruining the game imo.
I think the "balance" changes really dictate the compositions you MUST go for to win at a decent elo.
However, I'm glad they waited until the end of the WCS season to put the balance through.
BTW Oracle speed buff is a joke. Balance team must be bunch of tards without any sense of the game.
Blizzard needs to stop hiring loser nerds from junior colleges.
User was warned for this post
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Yeah I'd like them to let players find solutions more. At least that patch occurs during the off-season, so it won't change much and they can deal with any change that turns out to be a problem before WCS 2014 kicks in (I can expect some oracle damage nerf, because they're too proud to undo a buff that was a mistake, and some minor muta nerf to help T in ZvT).
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For those that are going mech in TvP, can't Protoss do a simple counter by going Sky Toss? Last I checked, mech sucks against Sky Toss. Sky Toss builds faster than mech anyways. Yesterday afternoon Mana went Sky Toss and Carriers against a Terran who was going mech.
On November 12 2013 22:09 woreyour wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 08:19 geokilla wrote:
I'm done playing this game. Going to play League.
User was warned for this post yup you go play that  fits you well at your level hahhaaha I love these nerd rage against blizz but they say the game is getting boring... lol
I'm Platinum.. Soon to be Diamond in SC2.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 12 2013 22:52 geokilla wrote:For those that are going mech in TvP, can't Protoss do a simple counter by going Sky Toss? Last I checked, mech sucks against Sky Toss. Sky Toss builds faster than mech anyways. Yesterday afternoon Mana went Sky Toss and Carriers against a Terran who was going mech. Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 22:09 woreyour wrote:On November 12 2013 08:19 geokilla wrote:
I'm done playing this game. Going to play League.
User was warned for this post yup you go play that fits you well at your level hahhaaha I love these nerd rage against blizz but they say the game is getting boring... lol I'm Platinum.. Soon to be Diamond in SC2.
Soon to be? But you were quitting to play League, right?
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On November 12 2013 22:13 Bagi wrote:
BS, its no different from preventing a turtley protoss player getting their ultimate army. You kill them by switching your composition around and constant aggression.
Also map design can affect this enormously, notice that they just removed the best mech map (Akilon) from the map pool.
THIS!
And unlike ZvP, against a mech terran the zerg has more tools to deal with and to stop the T from getting the ultimate army, your point about the maps is also spot on. Maybe @ Akilon Wastes zergs would have no other way to deal with mech other than Swarm Hosts, on the other maps in the current ladder pool SHs are not necessary AT ALL.
But w/e, people will always refuse to adapt, basically anything is impossible until their favorite korean starts doing it.
It's funny because on a lot of situations I actually think that SHs are easier to deal with than tech switching/unpredictable/agressive zergs because of the tunnel vision it causes and the stubbornness of zerg players on refusing to mix it up, it gives me freedom and breathing room to slowly expand and build up my army, seeing as most mech players, I'm more experienced/used to playing the late game as your random ladder zerg.
So basically when I see Zerg making a lot of SHs, parking them somewhere and putting up a building forest they are basically letting me playing comfortably and in my own turf, whereas agressive zergs won't give me any breathing room and slowly wear me down (way faster than you wear down a typical turtling toss), and actually cause like over 80% of my TvZ losses as mech.
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On November 12 2013 22:46 TaishiCi wrote:
I'm in the same boat. BW Terran and SC2 Terran (Masters every season).
Getting more and more disappointed every season.
The balance team does too many "balancing" and not enough "let players figure it out".
Trying to cater "balance" in the lower leagues is really ruining the game imo.
I think the "balance" changes really dictate the compositions you MUST go for to win at a decent elo.
I really don't think they are doing this at all. Terran is the least represented race in GM and the most in bronze. If they were trying to make the races equally difficult to play at different levels they should be making terran easier to play at lower levels or harder to play against. The mine change seems like the opposite of that.
If the game remains balanced (which I don't know if it will), the TvZ changes are good, since it will allow easier unit transitions and hopefully more diverse compositions. I really don't understand the speed oracle change.
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Units are moving faster and faster. Eventually I would have to quit when sc starts giving me epilepsy.
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On November 12 2013 08:19 geokilla wrote:
I'm done playing this game. Going to play League.
User was warned for this post
I think I am going to have the reverse occur. I left because of widow mine strength against blings. Now I'm back.
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On November 12 2013 22:53 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 22:52 geokilla wrote:For those that are going mech in TvP, can't Protoss do a simple counter by going Sky Toss? Last I checked, mech sucks against Sky Toss. Sky Toss builds faster than mech anyways. Yesterday afternoon Mana went Sky Toss and Carriers against a Terran who was going mech. On November 12 2013 22:09 woreyour wrote:On November 12 2013 08:19 geokilla wrote:
I'm done playing this game. Going to play League.
User was warned for this post yup you go play that fits you well at your level hahhaaha I love these nerd rage against blizz but they say the game is getting boring... lol I'm Platinum.. Soon to be Diamond in SC2. Soon to be? But you were quitting to play League, right?
I'm going to have to play in order to participate for CSL. Plus I already play League. Just that I'm going to dedicate less time to SC2 now.
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On November 12 2013 18:46 Foudzing wrote:Show nested quote +1) know your oracle timings. Have marines ready in the main mineral line when oracles should arrive. If nothing comes in a minute or so it's not oracles. If something does come, defend with the marines and build turret. An Oracle beat 6 marines head to head. The fact that terran players were forced to do a shitty reactor build because of this unit and can't one-rax expand anymore was not enough I guess. Whereas now with OP photon charge (still not nerfed by the way) a protoss can easily Nexus first with no a problem. Make photon charge shorter will reduce his power against allins and timing attacks (which is really to strong atm in any machup) and still not nerfed against harass (I agree having a defense against harass is necessarry for protosses). Protoss is the strongest race by far now.
Yea nexus first vs reapers lol
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EPT
