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FirstGear
Australia185 Posts
On November 12 2013 22:57 Nacl(Draq) wrote: I think I am going to have the reverse occur. I left because of widow mine strength against blings. Now I'm back.  Even if the match up was balanced, mines certainly could be incredibly frustrating (like oracles and storm tvp or swarmhosts pvz). Hopefully there will be more unit diversity TvZ but it will stay 50% ish winrate. | ||
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fried_rice
198 Posts
On November 12 2013 23:00 FirstGear wrote: Even if the match up was balanced, mines certainly could be incredibly frustrating (like oracles and storm tvp or swarmhosts pvz). Hopefully there will be more unit diversity TvZ but it will stay 50% ish winrate. And how come storm, shs and oracles (which are getting buffed) aren't getting adressed or looked at? | ||
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geokilla
Canada8246 Posts
On November 12 2013 23:02 fried_rice wrote: And how come storm, shs and oracles (which are getting buffed) aren't getting adressed or looked at? Because you can't just Storm away immediately. Gotta wait for the energy. | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On November 12 2013 22:54 fried_rice wrote: THIS! And unlike ZvP, against a mech terran the zerg has more tools to deal with and to stop the T from getting the ultimate army, your point about the maps is also spot on. Maybe @ Akilon Wastes zergs would have no other way to deal with mech other than Swarm Hosts, on the other maps in the current ladder pool SHs are not necessary AT ALL. But w/e, people will always refuse to adapt, basically anything is impossible until their favorite korean starts doing it. It's funny because on a lot of situations I actually think that SHs are easier to deal with than tech switching/unpredictable/agressive zergs because of the tunnel vision it causes and the stubbornness of zerg players on refusing to mix it up, it gives me freedom and breathing room to slowly expand and build up my army, seeing as most mech players, I'm more experienced/used to playing the late game as your random ladder zerg. So basically when I see Zerg making a lot of SHs, parking them somewhere and putting up a building forest they are basically letting me playing comfortably and in my own turf, whereas agressive zergs won't give me any breathing room and slowly wear me down (way faster than you wear down a typical turtling toss), and actually cause like over 80% of my TvZ losses as mech. This is my experience as well.. Typical Zerg I run into on ladder master level EU makes like 30 Swarm Hosts + infinite spine/spore and goes afk. As soon as he realises it doesn't work as "supposed", he pulls to "Mass Muta" card and when he flies into 500 Turrets, he ragequits + the usual bm that I play boring turtly style, how can I live with myself and I should get cancer, etc... It is so funny.. Those Zergs are sooo used to WoL style late-game freewins. They are ligitimately scared Terran can somehow make army that doesn't immediately run away as soon as they send few lings... The amount of hate I recieve when playing mech is insane, it is like I feel I'm murdering kittens. I guess I'm too old for this.. | ||
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
On November 12 2013 23:09 TeeTS wrote: So we had 6months, where Zerg players needed to actually micro their units. I think it´s only fair to them, that they can take a rest now during engagements and a move steamroll terran armies like they used to in WoL. This statement is hilariously true.... Even though zergs are doing sooooooooooo much better in the match up because they have adapted to not just A-Moving units and have to spread and attack now they aren't going to have to do this anymore and just surround and 1 Over-run on the terran army and the game is over...................... | ||
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saltis
159 Posts
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On November 12 2013 23:09 TeeTS wrote: So we had 6months, where Zerg players needed to actually micro their units. I think it´s only fair to them, that they can take a rest now during engagements and a move steamroll terran armies like they used to in WoL. I dunno, 4-5 3/3 Cloak Banshee hit squads could be freaking ridiculous mid-lategame for sniping tech structures and punishing the Spine Wall and SH build. Also Vikings will be upgraded much quicker when playing Mech. Could be some interesting new builds on the horizon. | ||
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Insoleet
France1806 Posts
On November 12 2013 23:13 Pirfiktshon wrote: This statement is hilariously true.... Even though zergs are doing sooooooooooo much better in the match up because they have adapted to not just A-Moving units and have to spread and attack now they aren't going to have to do this anymore and just surround and 1 Over-run on the terran army and the game is over...................... This wont change a lot of things, 5-6 mines activating will still destroy everything  Just, one mine activating on 15 banelings wont randomly kill the 15 banelings. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 12 2013 23:09 TeeTS wrote: So we had 6months, where Zerg players needed to actually micro their units. I think it´s only fair to them, that they can take a rest now during engagements and a move steamroll terran armies like they used to in WoL. This is huge exaggeration, and you know it. Just because Widow Mines are nerfed the way they are doesn't mean that you should suddenly stop microing against them. It will be easier to deal with Widow Mines, yes, but you won't be winning your matches just by a-clicking into Terran army. | ||
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saltis
159 Posts
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KingAce
United States471 Posts
On November 12 2013 22:06 gTank wrote: The sad Zealot was the epitome of whining on TL. Give credit where credit is due Considering that protoss had been at the bottom of the game for 70% of sc2 lifespan, the club was justified. At least it was contained in one place. Terrans whine even when they're dominating tournaments. | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
Im afraid that the fact that they had a long test period will make them very reluctant to change it back when/if they screw up. Instead they will do something else to fix it and cause more issues and so on. Lets hope it will all work out I guess. | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
Anyway as for the patch, its ok I guess. The tank buff is nice. Problem is the fundamental problem with Terran still hasn't been addressed though...the marine needs to be nerfed and everything else rebalanced around it. THAT'S when you'll see more diverse options; when the marine isn't a cheap, low-supply, quick to build, catch-all answer to just about everything. Nerf the marine and you can buff probably the majority of the rest of the Terran arsenal; but Blizzard has never wanted to touch the marine for some strange reason. | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
On November 12 2013 23:21 KingAce wrote: Considering that protoss had been at the bottom of the game for 70% of sc2 lifespan, the club was justified. At least it was contained in one place. Terrans whine even when they're dominating tournaments. I think you are looking for a WoL thread. This is about Hots... | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On November 12 2013 23:02 fried_rice wrote: And how come storm, shs and oracles (which are getting buffed) aren't getting adressed or looked at? Because shs are geting looked at. You should inform yourself. | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On November 12 2013 23:26 Fjodorov wrote: I think you are looking for a WoL thread. This is about Hots... I think you missed the part where gTank brought up the sad Zealot club. Which was a WoL thing when Protoss was getting absolutely destroyed. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On November 12 2013 23:19 Ramiz1989 wrote: This is huge exaggeration, and you know it. Just because Widow Mines are nerfed the way they are doesn't mean that you should suddenly stop microing against them. It will be easier to deal with Widow Mines, yes, but you won't be winning your matches just by a-clicking into Terran army. But what's the point in making Zerg's lives easier? The matchup was balanced as long as you knew how to handle WM's. Even at the pro scene, no pro had trouble with WM's in the last 3-4 months. You would see awesome micro by Soulkey and Life by pulling mine shots into Terran, severely punishing them. Now it's finally balanced, they decide to mess it up again. I wouldn't even mind if the balance created more micro opportunities but it doesn't. It brings back an archaic tank which has no place in the TvZ MU atm outside of some timing attacks or when the Terran is really really far ahead. The new muta's will slaughter tanks and pushes come so much slower. Yet nothing was changed on the Zerg side. They're still going to have out of control macro if the Terran doesn't punish them. Yet they want the Terran to play slower? It makes no sense. Even from the reason that they gave, where they said it's for more diversity. The MU is going to spiral into 55-60% in favor of Zerg in the next few weeks/month. Then it's going to even out more, and finally going to be balanced again (hopefully). And then they're going to come out and say that tank/WM is way too boring and they want to shake it up again. (Well, realistically that will probably be LotV time). By nerfing units to promote use of another is just saying our design is awful, have fun. I don't know about anyone else, but that's why I'm mad about the WM change. It brings absolutely nothing to the table, takes away an option that many Terran's been playing. If only there was a change that would make Bio/WM AND Bio/Tank/WM viable... HMMMM | ||
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fried_rice
198 Posts
On November 12 2013 23:07 Everlong wrote: This is my experience as well.. Typical Zerg I run into on ladder master level EU makes like 30 Swarm Hosts + infinite spine/spore and goes afk. As soon as he realises it doesn't work as "supposed", he pulls to "Mass Muta" card and when he flies into 500 Turrets, he ragequits + the usual bm that I play boring turtly style, how can I live with myself and I should get cancer, etc... It is so funny.. Those Zergs are sooo used to WoL style late-game freewins. They are ligitimately scared Terran can somehow make army that doesn't immediately run away as soon as they send few lings... The amount of hate I recieve when playing mech is insane, it is like I feel I'm murdering kittens. I guess I'm too old for this.. Lol man, the hilarious BM is one of the main reasons why I still play this game, it's only going to get worse (or better if you think it's amazing to be on the receiving end of senseless insults) with this patch now. People will say this patch is ridiculous/it's killing sc2/broken the matchup, etc, even though I've been playing like this since WOL beta and this patch barely changes anything. | ||
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Creager
Germany1923 Posts
On November 12 2013 22:10 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: You don't get nerfs every patch. You don't know how it feels if you're already struggling to see extra nerfs. It sucks. Plus I remember times when Protoss whined all day long about 1/1/1 and then "suddenly evolved" playstyles to be safer *cough* | ||
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