|
On October 02 2013 21:07 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 21:04 Pirfiktshon wrote:I think it's to late though. The WCS sprayed their stink onto the market and made sc2 one of the Least watched eSports which is very sad. I love Starcraft and have been a very loyal customer for 15 years and grew up watching what proscene i could watch when I coudl watch it. I feel starcraft had the Hayday when IPL was doing a constant stream that was AWESOME but that has been shutdown and it felt like the scene was growing then and now it feels like its Dying very quickly.... I just wish someone was out there to bring it back to life and start making it grow again....... I don't want to Lose starcraft  ..... Name one game besides dota and lol and at some time of the year fighting games that, on average, gets more. I could name you like 10 esports that get less viewers and are smaller than star 2. It's not dieing and you won't loose it, jesus people I feel like all of you joined esports with star 2 and are now butthurt that the game no longer has the number 1 spot.
yup, most people are just butthurt SC2 isn't #1 anymore like the glory days. It's quite evident when most arguments point towards LoL/DotA for a comparison on what isn't making SC2 #1 anymore. When in actual fact, the overall viewership hasn't decreased at all for SC2 (dont remember which thread it was, but it had statistics etc), it just looks bad since people on the internet are too focused on the negatives and very rarely themselves see the full picture of SC2 and esports in general, they base their opinions on what's happened recently e.g. "drama" events, but realistically, is that really the best gauge on how a game is doing? I'd say not. I bet if we were #1 viewership, biggest/hypest live crowds watching the game, we'd probably have less people argueing about design and WCS formats.
|
Russian Federation49 Posts
On October 02 2013 21:13 Caladan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 21:12 RouaF wrote:
It's honestly time blizzard does like valve and riot do. Pump some serious cash into the competitive scene. They were too greedy on this one and this is their downfall ... Cash won't help. The problem is the lack of viewers and thus lack of sponsors and thus teams/players retiring. -_- And why is there a lack of viewers? Because the game is shit.
Viewers come 2nd. Playerbase is all that matters. Get 1kk players, put a huge fucken banner on the front of battlenet and, shazam, you got yourself some viewers. Can't make a good esport out of $100 game while there is free stuff like LoL or d2+sc2 really needs baneling hats...
|
On October 02 2013 19:32 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +Because of WCS, all the foundations have crumbled. If things go like this again next year, then StarCraft 2 teams will be hurt even more." He is clearly confusing causation with correlation. WCS didn't ruin Sc2. I think it likely wouldn't have been even worse without WCS, but eventually if there are not enough viewers watching Sc2, then the size of this scene couldn't be sustained. Thus, it has to be scaled down.
Correlation vs causation fallacy was definitely committed here. However he isn't entirely incorrect. With WCS, That is the only thing Blizzard is focusing on. There's no more major tournaments outside of WCS that I can think of aside from Dreamhack and IEM. MLG dropped SC2. NASL didn't run this year I don't think. IPL is dead. What else is left for SC2?
SC2 is dying. Instead of providing more money for the teams, Blizzard needs to go back to either having more tournaments running, or have complete control over any and all tournaments like RIOT does with LCS. They also need to fix the fact that WCS AM and EU is not the same as WCS KR, where top 8 is played over a weekend compared to WCS KR, which uses the GSL format.
|
On October 02 2013 21:17 Efane wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 21:13 Caladan wrote:On October 02 2013 21:12 RouaF wrote:
It's honestly time blizzard does like valve and riot do. Pump some serious cash into the competitive scene. They were too greedy on this one and this is their downfall ... Cash won't help. The problem is the lack of viewers and thus lack of sponsors and thus teams/players retiring. -_- And why is there a lack of viewers? Because the game is shit. Viewers come 2nd. Playerbase is all that matters. Get 1kk players, put a huge fucken banner on the front of battlenet and, shazam, you got yourself some viewers. Can't make a good esport out of $100 game while there is free stuff like LoL or d2+sc2 really needs baneling hats...
Yeah, that's true. Mostly: Viewers = Players / x.
But then again, the result doesn't change. It's the game's fault for losing so much players. Just compare WoL sales with HotS sales, it's ridiculous.
|
On October 02 2013 21:14 shin_toss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 20:49 esdf wrote:
Unlike BW, SC2 didn't go through the natural process of growing and getting people to like and love it, the game was forced upon everyone. BW has suffered a violent death at the hands of Blizzard and people got left with only 2 options, play SC2 or play a different game. Same goes for viewers. And if that wasn't enough Blizz even tried to kill off the amateur BW leagues, but fortunately failed at it.
? This. BW was like unpopular -> played by people > koreans fell in love with it > companies sponsor it > esport while SC2 force it as esport > played by people > players/fans lose passion as time passes > unpopular total reverse :|
It's the burden of being a successor to an e-sports title. Only game I know of where it looks like it works is Dota 2 and that's more of a remake.
|
I don`t see how the scene is shrinking because of WCS. It seemed to be shrinking even before (IPL going down), and HOTS was just a temporary boost of interest. WCS or no WCS, imo does not make a difference to me as a viewer or casual player.
On the korean side of things, I am pretty sure I saw plenty of empty as fuck studios for starleague when they did the hybrid dual tournament and began the transition in proleague to sc2. All before this new WCS. Koreans just don`t seem to care for sc2 so I`m not sure it is a WCS issue.
|
Canada16217 Posts
On October 02 2013 21:13 Caladan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 21:12 RouaF wrote:
It's honestly time blizzard does like valve and riot do. Pump some serious cash into the competitive scene. They were too greedy on this one and this is their downfall ... Cash won't help. The problem is the lack of viewers and thus lack of sponsors and thus teams/players retiring. -_- And why is there a lack of viewers? Because the game is shit.
Players are retiring because the scene got double the amount of players once kespa switched of course the scene can't support that instantly. Teams disbanding are more so the sponsors have problems within their own companies, the companies themselves are financially unstable not because of sponsoring teams, get your facts right.
|
It is sad to see so much people criticizing WCS
It is not WCS fault, Why would it be in correlation to the amount of retirements?
Because they dont get a chance?
Let's be real here and look at the amount of Korean teams Sc2 has in comparison to what it was in BW?
And what alot of people overlook is that the economic crisis also has a hand in the choices companies make in sponsoring teams and what also causes them to STOP sponsering teams like with STX being bankrupt and what woongjin is going through now.
we can bash the WCS all the time BUT do realize that the Sc2 scene in korea is just too stacked with players.
|
Putting Blizzard on blast, I dig it
|
On October 02 2013 21:20 SinCitta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 21:14 shin_toss wrote:On October 02 2013 20:49 esdf wrote:
Unlike BW, SC2 didn't go through the natural process of growing and getting people to like and love it, the game was forced upon everyone. BW has suffered a violent death at the hands of Blizzard and people got left with only 2 options, play SC2 or play a different game. Same goes for viewers. And if that wasn't enough Blizz even tried to kill off the amateur BW leagues, but fortunately failed at it.
? This. BW was like unpopular -> played by people > koreans fell in love with it > companies sponsor it > esport while SC2 force it as esport > played by people > players/fans lose passion as time passes > unpopular total reverse :| It's the burden of being a successor to an e-sports title. Only game I know of where it looks like it works is Dota 2 and that's more of a remake.
It's literally a remake, actually. When the developer can patch both the older game and the new game with nearly identical content (with some delay for Dota 2 due to needing better/non-Blizzard models), then it's a remake.
|
On October 02 2013 19:43 Ketch wrote:
Pfff.... Korea just needs more tournaments next to WCS that's all. Is it Blizz'es fault that there are no additional tournaments? I don't think so. They can just be organized right?
you need big companies to make it successful. Because Proteams / Players wont join it anyways if the prize pool is small. And those remaining sponsors are already in GSL / OSL which WCS took.
|
I still don't see this as a sign that "SC2 is dying", but a natural reaction to the overall shrinking of the scene that requires restructuring of teams as a response. Definitely not good news to see three teams fall in the past week, but the scene will survive on.
|
Russian Federation49 Posts
On October 02 2013 21:20 Caladan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 21:17 Efane wrote:On October 02 2013 21:13 Caladan wrote:On October 02 2013 21:12 RouaF wrote:
It's honestly time blizzard does like valve and riot do. Pump some serious cash into the competitive scene. They were too greedy on this one and this is their downfall ... Cash won't help. The problem is the lack of viewers and thus lack of sponsors and thus teams/players retiring. -_- And why is there a lack of viewers? Because the game is shit. Viewers come 2nd. Playerbase is all that matters. Get 1kk players, put a huge fucken banner on the front of battlenet and, shazam, you got yourself some viewers. Can't make a good esport out of $100 game while there is free stuff like LoL or d2+sc2 really needs baneling hats... Yeah, that's true. Mostly: Viewers = Player * x. But then again, the result doesn't change. It's the game's fault for losing so much players. Just compare WoL sales with HotS sales, it's ridiculous.
The sad thing is that blizz cant understand that f2p and micro-transactions are the future of e-sports. Gives you tons of flexibility with the game, you can fix whatever you want however you want and just tell people to go fuck themselves, coz you are doing things for greater good (and cmon, the game is free). I mean, sc2 got shitloads of potential for micro-transactions. Custom unit decals, announcers, decals for building, baneling hats(god i hope baneling hats will happen one day)
Or just make an amazing game from the start that everybody falls in love with it and throws cash into monitors... Sadly, blizzard doesnt do that, but they are learning. Hope their experience with hearthstone will somehow transition to sc2 (bla bla bla, casual, bla bla bla, gfys)
|
On October 02 2013 19:24 GizmoPT wrote:
we need some savior of eSports
We have - It is called Dota 2.
The interest in this game is almost the same as the one in SC2 but the system provided by Valve is much better for eSports ( every team can win money by selling in game items, no matter of the tournament results). As you can see there are tournaments non stop atm, even MLG wont make SC2 events anymore, but they will do Dota 2, same thing starting in Korea. Of course there will always be SC events in Korea, but i think that Dota 2 will overcome Star Craft unless Blizzard do something about that.
|
maybe what we need to help the teams is a global wcs team league?
|
I've tried giving it a chance but WCS is just rubbish. Coming towards the end of the 3rd season we're seeing a lot of mediocore Korean players in AM and EU getting the best chance of qualifying for the year end finals. Blizzard's attempt to get the foreigners those spots have failed miserably.
I think this is often the result of affirmative action and I really can't blame Blizzard for trying because the community demands foreigners... Rofl, this is so ironically sad for me as a fan of SC2, not only will many of the most skilled players not get a fair chance of qualifying for Blizzcon simply because they play in KR, the most skilled and competitive region, they are also suffering financially and the game's popularity is falling.
Sigh, I guess this is how it all goes down. Blizzard needs to reconsider the WCS system, it's simply not working. Korea as the strongest region doesn't need external interference, the old GSL was way better and they were self sustainable. I'd much prefer if GSL and OSL were run the way they always were and Blizzard can have their crap WCS pet project run on the side for the fans who prefer "personality" over skill.
|
On October 02 2013 21:07 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 21:04 Pirfiktshon wrote:I think it's to late though. The WCS sprayed their stink onto the market and made sc2 one of the Least watched eSports which is very sad. I love Starcraft and have been a very loyal customer for 15 years and grew up watching what proscene i could watch when I coudl watch it. I feel starcraft had the Hayday when IPL was doing a constant stream that was AWESOME but that has been shutdown and it felt like the scene was growing then and now it feels like its Dying very quickly.... I just wish someone was out there to bring it back to life and start making it grow again....... I don't want to Lose starcraft ..... Name one game besides dota and lol and at some time of the year fighting games that, on average, gets more. I could name you like 10 esports that get less viewers and are smaller than star 2. It's not dieing and you won't loose it, jesus people I feel like all of you joined esports with star 2 and are now butthurt that the game no longer has the number 1 spot.
I'm sorry Lorch you are right I'm being a litte dramatic i'm just used to being in the #1 spot with BW and being the competitive person that I am I want my game to be in the #1 SPOT! 
I just played LoL for like 6 months to give it a shot and I just find the game very easy and feel like anyone with a pulse could play it which is why I guess there is such a high viewership...
I just wish people I talk to like younger ones coudl appreciate Starcraft for the game that it is so we can start seeing some more pro gamer's careers take off.....I'm probably not explaining that correctly but the thought is there
|
On October 02 2013 21:13 Caladan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 21:12 RouaF wrote:
It's honestly time blizzard does like valve and riot do. Pump some serious cash into the competitive scene. They were too greedy on this one and this is their downfall ... Cash won't help. The problem is the lack of viewers and thus lack of sponsors and thus teams/players retiring. -_- And why is there a lack of viewers? Because the game is shit.
Exactly. The problem is the game, not the lack of funds. As someone else already mentioned SC2 never experienced natural growth, but was living off of the success of BW. It was a bubble that was doomed to bust at some point, and that is what we are now witnessing.
SC2 is not going to experience growth before we've hit rock bottom. When that happens SC2 will hopefully be able to grow on it's own merits and not because it was forced by money injections. The prizepool per person is far higher for SC2 than it is for LoL, even though LoL has many times more viewers, and the earnings overall is also much higher for SC2 compared to LoL. Innovation earned more during WCS S1 than each of the guys from Azubu Frost (now CJ Entus Frost) made from getting 2nd place in LCS Season 2.
|
Why companies stop supporting teams when they deem a certain game to be dead I don't know.
|
I really want to hear some word from Blizzard. They had their (secret) meeting right? I wonder what came out of it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
