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On October 02 2013 19:37 DJHelium wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 19:35 Dodgin wrote:
glad to see we're adopting the reddit method of sensationalized thread titles. Isn't that the title on TIG? I see the letters WCS at least! Seems reasonable to use the same.
According to Daum and Naver 망치다 means "destroy" (망쳤다, which is used in the TIG title, is in present tense). So the title on TIG becomes like
"Lee Hyung Seop: Blizzard WCS is destroying SC2". (스타2 means "Star2").
EDIT: my bad, it's actually past tense.
"Lee Hyeong Sep: Blizzard WCS destroyed SC2".
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start looking into other scenes boys.. see their profit model and tournament structure. blizzard really fucked up.
ive always been a proponent of switching whoever is on the lead of sc2. unless some critical changes are made, these dudes will make money off of bleeding players.
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Can always count on a plansix comment to go against the grain and reassure us that blizzard is doing an amazing job.
Get with the mob justice, it's clearly the only way.
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On October 02 2013 22:18 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 22:14 whirlpool wrote:
sc2 hots needs to die immediately, so blizzard can pick up the pieces, learn from it to build lotv. This is not exactly they way i would have put it, but in the long run i definitely think that SC2 would benefit from a complete overhaul.
Team loses it's only sponsor, so Blizzard should overhaul the game play of SC2? I am sure the sponsor didn't give a shit about units clumping.
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The teams need a way to generate revenue to sustain their costs. I'm pretty new to the scene so I have a question. Do they have tournaments where teams or players buy in?Similar to a poker tournament? I feel like this type of thing..if you could couple it with getting a sponsor to match what the teams buy in and host a huge event that had other types of entertainment as well..( bands / bars/ cards..etc) would draw huge crowds...even a modest cover to people to add in to the revenue. I know for damn sure that where I'm from even people not into the scene would be into it. This also would in entice venture capitalists to start competitive bidding on the star players ( see New York Yankees). Eventually you would create a few powerhouse teams to drive the competition and limits of the game up.. I think one of the key things about why the events aren't more popular is because really the only focus of the events are the games..not as much stuff for maybe the girlfriend or the kids to do.. you'd also have less inflation of players as the teams would only be competitive by paying top dollar for the best talent..and you'd put more pressure and acccointability on the players to improve. I'm all for blizz and sponsors throwing out as much money as they can but at the end of the day it has to become a self sustaining industry and that will only happen by having as many positive margin (profit turning) events as possible. This cant happen by advertising funding alone (viewership). Major league baseball teams go out of businesses years ago if they dont fill seats with fans.. we need to figure out how to get fans into the events..clearly good solid games isn't going to be enough for now..just think about poker..as ridiculously boring as it is to watch (even for myself who is an avid participant) people get excited about the premise of someone winning a fortune. I honestly think the events that go down with 2500 dollar prize pools and 30 people in the "stands" do more harm than good for the scene..just observing comments from my own friends who are clueless...you hear things like I thought this was a sport you were telling me...looks like an after school club..etc.. I'm such a huge supporter of RTS. I love it and it is my passion. I want so badly for it to succeed to the level of SC1 and well beyond. For those BW supporters I will say this..I never played BW but I heard of its greatness.. you have to ask yourself though..do you love RTS?? If you do you have to accept that BW isn't coming back and SC2 is the only show in town. It needs your support more than ever..your ideas your positive input and your passion. Pls less SC2 flaming and more SC2 ideas..RTS has the most intelligent player base.. I know it can succeed with the right passion and ideas behind it!
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On October 02 2013 22:32 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 22:18 Prog455 wrote:On October 02 2013 22:14 whirlpool wrote:
sc2 hots needs to die immediately, so blizzard can pick up the pieces, learn from it to build lotv. This is not exactly they way i would have put it, but in the long run i definitely think that SC2 would benefit from a complete overhaul. Team loses it's only sponsor, so Blizzard should overhaul the game play of SC2? I am sure the sponsor didn't give a shit about units clumping.
FXO wasn't FXO.Koreas only sponsor. Just main sponsor.
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On October 02 2013 22:28 lessQQmorePEWPEW wrote:
start looking into other scenes boys.. see their profit model and tournament structure. blizzard really fucked up.
ive always been a proponent of switching whoever is on the lead of sc2. unless some critical changes are made, these dudes will make money off of bleeding players.
Other scenes? Which one of the big 3 scenes? LoL, DotA2 or... wait, Starcraft 2? GASP.
There are no "other scenes" as viable as SC2, with the exception of LoL. For koreans, DotA2 is almost non-existent.
Quit this fucking negativity thing already. YOU are the problem. YOU are making SC2 look dead. Go watch a tournament, play, do a LR thread. Go donate for GameHeart, which is actually AWESOME.
SC2 is not dead by a long shot, but if people keep this attitude they will definitely kill it.
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On October 02 2013 22:31 bo1b wrote:
Can always count on a plansix comment to go against the grain and reassure us that blizzard is doing an amazing job.
Get with the mob justice, it's clearly the only way.
Nah, WCS needs work. It has serious flaws and I have stated several time that I think less of it should be online. Blizzard is still pretty rudderless whenever it comes how to manage a league.
But that isn't the problem in Korea. The OGN and Gom conflict, plus the Kespa issues are mor local and not something Blizzard had direct control over. The blood letting in that scene is sad, but it has way to many players and teams.
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If anything WCS hurt Korea the most... :[
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On October 02 2013 21:33 Khai wrote:
I've tried giving it a chance but WCS is just rubbish. Coming towards the end of the 3rd season we're seeing a lot of mediocore Korean players in AM and EU getting the best chance of qualifying for the year end finals. Blizzard's attempt to get the foreigners those spots have failed miserably.
I think this is often the result of affirmative action and I really can't blame Blizzard for trying because the community demands foreigners... Rofl, this is so ironically sad for me as a fan of SC2, not only will many of the most skilled players not get a fair chance of qualifying for Blizzcon simply because they play in KR, the most skilled and competitive region, they are also suffering financially and the game's popularity is falling.
Sigh, I guess this is how it all goes down. Blizzard needs to reconsider the WCS system, it's simply not working. Korea as the strongest region doesn't need external interference, the old GSL was way better and they were self sustainable. I'd much prefer if GSL and OSL were run the way they always were and Blizzard can have their crap WCS pet project run on the side for the fans who prefer "personality" over skill.
The GSL was never "self-sustainable." Blizzard was always putting up a significant portion of the prize pool.
As for the problem of WCS, I think Blizzard has done a poor job, but it is important to remember that they're being pulled at from two directions. On one hand, you have much of the community and European/NA pros wanting region lock, which would put the Korean scene in even worse shape, because there would be even less money available for Koreans to win.
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On October 02 2013 20:49 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 20:48 JustPassingBy wrote:
Dunno why people are only complaining about WCS, WCS EU is totally awesome. I have never seen so many up and coming players than right now! :D I think Choya is mainly talking about WCS KR, which pretty much took over everything. It's only WCS now for them, and thats just bad. I really hope for the next year WCS goes a different path!
But as far as I know nothing is hindering OGN to make their own league while GSL handles WCS, or is there?
All they need to do is some bit of scheduling magic so they don't broadcast at the same time. Same goes vice versa.
edit: take a look at DH, for example, or at IEM, though latter is also done by ESL.
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People overinvested in SC2 because there was a small chance it would become huge. If a game took off around the world the same way BW did in Korea we would have a multibillion dollar business and being there first would be a nice advantage.
So they took a risk for a small chance of a huge paycheck. That didn't happen. SC2 isn't the esport that's going to go mainstream around the world. So the people who were betting on that are starting to deinvest and look for the next big thing.
A few hundred thousand fans worldwide cannot support 200 professional players. That doesn't work in any sport. It's not so much that SC2 is dying rather than the infrastructure was based around a much larger fanbase. Now that the fanbase has become smaller (in Korea compared to BW) or didn't increase as much as some people hoped in the rest of the world the team infrastructure has to follow suit.
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demand determines supply. too many teams for too little demand? sponsors will pull out, teams will die. end of story. now why is demand declining? that's the real question here. but if someone actually belives it's all WCS/ Blizzards fault he's extremely naive and/or has no clue about economics...
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While mercenaries killing foreign players, Korean tournaments are demoted, the system is bad for both Korean and foreign scenes.
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On October 02 2013 22:32 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 22:18 Prog455 wrote:On October 02 2013 22:14 whirlpool wrote:
sc2 hots needs to die immediately, so blizzard can pick up the pieces, learn from it to build lotv. This is not exactly they way i would have put it, but in the long run i definitely think that SC2 would benefit from a complete overhaul. Team loses it's only sponsor, so Blizzard should overhaul the game play of SC2? I am sure the sponsor didn't give a shit about units clumping.
SC2 does not need an overhaul because a few teams are losing sponsors. SC2 needs an overhaul because there is several inherent flaws in the game that should have been dealt with long ago. And it just so happens that we are currently going through a rough time to say the least, which makes it a perfect time to rethink the game.
It is possible that the sponsors didn't give a shit about units clumping, but they sure as hell give a shit about viewer numbers in free fall.
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On October 02 2013 22:45 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 20:49 KeksX wrote:On October 02 2013 20:48 JustPassingBy wrote:
Dunno why people are only complaining about WCS, WCS EU is totally awesome. I have never seen so many up and coming players than right now! :D I think Choya is mainly talking about WCS KR, which pretty much took over everything. It's only WCS now for them, and thats just bad. I really hope for the next year WCS goes a different path! But as far as I know nothing is hindering OGN to make their own league while GSL handles WCS, or is there? All they need to do is some bit of scheduling magic so they don't broadcast at the same time. Same goes vice versa.
Yes there is. Money. Blizzard always supported GSL, for example. You need a ton of money to start off something like this on your own!
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The only way to fix this is to somehow make it interesting to attract more fans. More viewers is the only way to fix this.
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I must be a necrophiliac as I am getting more out of this "dead" game then ever did when it was "alive". I have followed sc2 since GSL season 2 and watched all the major events since, still WCS has been the best thing to happen for me as a viewer in all this time. Used to be that GSL was pretty much the only storyline we had and now it's a global one with content almost everyday furthering that storyline and I have never been as excited for an esports event as am Blizzcon.
Not trying to argue it's perfect or that it has been handled in the best possible way but I just don't think it compares to all that WCS has given me as a viewer, and if I the viewer am happy shouldn't that translate as a good thing for everyone?
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Sad to see FXO dropping their KR team, whatever, their loss.
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On October 02 2013 22:54 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 22:45 JustPassingBy wrote:On October 02 2013 20:49 KeksX wrote:On October 02 2013 20:48 JustPassingBy wrote:
Dunno why people are only complaining about WCS, WCS EU is totally awesome. I have never seen so many up and coming players than right now! :D I think Choya is mainly talking about WCS KR, which pretty much took over everything. It's only WCS now for them, and thats just bad. I really hope for the next year WCS goes a different path! But as far as I know nothing is hindering OGN to make their own league while GSL handles WCS, or is there? All they need to do is some bit of scheduling magic so they don't broadcast at the same time. Same goes vice versa. Yes there is. Money. Blizzard always supported GSL, for example. You need a ton of money to start off something like this on your own!
You say "start off", as if OGN never did "something like this" before... I have many fond memories of past OSLs that say otherwise. DH and IEM (though that is also organized by ESL), show how tournaments can coexists with WCS, I don't get it why the Korean scene does not manage something like that
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EPT
