EPTChoya says team will continue, criticizes WCS system (TIG)…
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oDieN[Siege]
United States2905 Posts
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KaiserJohan
Sweden1808 Posts
 WCS EU and Dreamhack is still pretty good, but that's it for me. | ||
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vesicular
United States1311 Posts
On October 02 2013 22:48 hypercube wrote: People overinvested in SC2 because there was a small chance it would become huge. If a game took off around the world the same way BW did in Korea we would have a multibillion dollar business and being there first would be a nice advantage. So they took a risk for a small chance of a huge paycheck. That didn't happen. SC2 isn't the esport that's going to go mainstream around the world. So the people who were betting on that are starting to deinvest and look for the next big thing. A few hundred thousand fans worldwide cannot support 200 professional players. That doesn't work in any sport. It's not so much that SC2 is dying rather than the infrastructure was based around a much larger fanbase. Now that the fanbase has become smaller (in Korea compared to BW) or didn't increase as much as some people hoped in the rest of the world the team infrastructure has to follow suit. This nails it, and is a much more realistic perspective than throwing out whatever current meme-of-the-day is. Also consider that the player base in Korea doubled (Kespa + eSF) for a game where the fan base was decreasing at the same time. The numbers simply do not add up, and something has to give. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On October 02 2013 23:00 KaiserJohan wrote: I miss watching MLGs with their american/european scene players WCS EU and Dreamhack is still pretty good, but that's it for me.Thats just nostalgia for you. In the end in the MLGs there were IdrA, Huk and maybe another one in the top 16. But other than that it was koreans and koreans only. In WCS EU for example I see a lot of different players and imho thats a great thing. WCS EU has been the best thing happening to us in EU next to Dreamhack, which is still unbeaten imho. | ||
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BuzzKillington
United States47 Posts
On October 02 2013 22:49 looken wrote: demand determines supply. too many teams for too little demand? sponsors will pull out, teams will die. end of story. now why is demand declining? that's the real question here. but if someone actually belives it's all WCS/ Blizzards fault he's extremely naive and/or has no clue about economics... Oh my, Economics! What's that, something to do with money, right? You must be really smart to understand such kind of things, I bet your GPA is 4.0 | ||
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TaishiCi
Korea (South)211 Posts
On October 02 2013 22:28 lessQQmorePEWPEW wrote: start looking into other scenes boys.. see their profit model and tournament structure. blizzard really fucked up. ive always been a proponent of switching whoever is on the lead of sc2. unless some critical changes are made, these dudes will make money off of bleeding players. Been trying different games for a while. Had a little retro phase with emulators and GTA kept me busy. Recently been playing Rome 2 total war, they have a pretty big modding community that does really neat things. I found that I can't stand any type of MOBA and FPS. I continue to watch streams once in a while, but I don't have a GOM pass anymore. I still play somewhat regularly, but I'm a league lower and usually have lots of bonus pool stacked. I'll probably come back after the NFL season ends. See you in February. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On October 02 2013 22:58 JustPassingBy wrote: You say "start off", as if OGN never did "something like this" before... I have many fond memories of past OSLs that say otherwise. DH and IEM (though that is also organized by ESL), show how tournaments can coexists with WCS, I don't get it why the Korean scene does not manage something like that Because DH and IEM are hosted in different cities once per year. And they aren't just for SC2, DH is a big LAN, gaming festival and IEM piggybacks on a lot of computer conventions and expos. The Korean market is probably not big enough to make weekend tournaments like DH/IEM economically feasible. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 02 2013 22:52 Prog455 wrote: SC2 does not need an overhaul because a few teams are losing sponsors. SC2 needs an overhaul because there is several inherent flaws in the game that should have been dealt with long ago. And it just so happens that we are currently going through a rough time to say the least, which makes it a perfect time to rethink the game. It is possible that the sponsors didn't give a shit about units clumping, but they sure as hell give a shit about viewer numbers in free fall. I love how people cite "fundamental flaws" with the gameplay in every threat that has any bad news related to SC2. Yet they all just parrot the vague points that people have been vaguely quoting for years. It has little to do with the topic, but let's bring it up anyways because it sounds good. | ||
Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On October 02 2013 22:58 JustPassingBy wrote: You say "start off", as if OGN never did "something like this" before... I have many fond memories of past OSLs that say otherwise. DH and IEM (though that is also organized by ESL), show how tournaments can coexists with WCS, I don't get it why the Korean scene does not manage something like that Back then OGN and MBC had A TON of huge sponsors. There was ALWAYS a major company behind that. And even then MBC had to close sooner or later, so I don't think you can compare "back then" with "now". Things changed, and not always for the better. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
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Otolia
France5805 Posts
On October 02 2013 23:06 Bagi wrote: Is it just me or is Blizzard and WCS a convenient scapegoat for Koreans? What makes them actually think their scene with very little viewership would be able to support WCS + GSL/OSL and thus give "steady prize money" to a hugely bloated scene? It's just such an naive approach to things. Because blaming your own shortcomings (the team poor long-term management) or blaming superiors (OGN, GOM or KeSPA) isn't accepted. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 02 2013 23:06 Bagi wrote: Is it just me or is Blizzard and WCS a convenient scapegoat for Koreans? What makes them actually think their scene with very little viewership would be able to support WCS + GSL/OSL and thus give "steady prize money" to a hugely bloated scene? It's just such an naive approach to things. I think there is some truth to that. I don't think all the teams are used to finding sponsors and blame WCS, instead of looking to how their team is run. At the end of the day, a lot of theses Korean teams need to find a way I support themselves and some of them might fail. | ||
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
On October 02 2013 23:06 Bagi wrote: Is it just me or is Blizzard and WCS a convenient scapegoat for Koreans? What makes them actually think their scene with very little viewership would be able to support WCS + GSL/OSL and thus give "steady prize money" to a hugely bloated scene? It's just such an naive approach to things. Probably because without Blizzard interfering they managed to make BW bigger than SC2 never was. And they had a working system that really could support progamers. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On October 02 2013 22:52 Prog455 wrote: SC2 does not need an overhaul because a few teams are losing sponsors. SC2 needs an overhaul because there is several inherent flaws in the game that should have been dealt with long ago. And it just so happens that we are currently going through a rough time to say the least, which makes it a perfect time to rethink the game. It is possible that the sponsors didn't give a shit about units clumping, but they sure as hell give a shit about viewer numbers in free fall. I agree with this. Sc2 has not been fun to play for years. Hots only made it more irritating to play, not less | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
On October 02 2013 23:06 Bagi wrote: Is it just me or is Blizzard and WCS a convenient scapegoat for Koreans? What makes them actually think their scene with very little viewership would be able to support WCS + GSL/OSL and thus give "steady prize money" to a hugely bloated scene? It's just such an naive approach to things. maybe blizz should not have shut down BW and gave half of the cash to kespa to continue the BW leagues...just a thought. you can lead a horse to water, but... and maybe the water's not very tasty, who knows? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 02 2013 23:13 zezamer wrote: Probably because without Blizzard interfering they managed to make BW bigger than SC2 never was. And they had a working system that really could support progamers. With government support, huge sponsorships and zero competition from other games. It's easy to be the top dog when your the only one in town. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On October 02 2013 23:09 Pirfiktshon wrote: I think region lock would be good because then it would not only cut costs for Korean teams seeing how it would cut down on expenses for sponsors in flights and hotels but also encourage local tournaments as opposed to goign to other regions... which some of the korean pros do this because they have a higher chance at winning and making money at other tournaments where if you make more tournaments in the area and sponsors save massive amounts of money on hotel stay flihgts etc... they might even be able to sponsor some of these events for pros to compete in for their respective areas.... I am not sure how region lock makes more local tournaments. Players are joining foreign teams because they want to go to foreign events. And the lack of local events is one of the major reasons. The local demand is just not big enough for Korean sponsors to sponsor a tournament. | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
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